New Camera Help Please: DSLR or High-End Compact

Munas · 26-02-2010, 09:00

I currently have a Fuji F72EXR compact, on occasions it produces very nice photo's but a lot of the times it produces pretty poor results. I had a Fuji F31fd, which was a lot better IMO. Should've kept it.

I've been doing a little research and I'm now considering moving up to a better camera. I can't decide between a DSLR or a high-end compact. I know a DSLR will produce better photo's, but would you have to be an expert and take ages sorting the ISO's apertures and what not?

I want the camera for, general use, holidays, days out etc. I don't mind tinkering about with it here and there, but dont want to be messing about with it for every shot.

I looked at a few DSLR's in shops and I'm not that fussed about the size. Also with a compact like a G11 or an S90 will see a big improvement over my Fuji?

Any help would be very much appreciated.

paulsaz · 26-02-2010, 09:09

Buying a flash camera wont automatically get you better pictures. You need to understand a bit about shutter speed, aperture, iso etc and how they all affect each other and the image.

You can do that on either a dslr or high end compact and there's a massive amount of choice these days. Recommendations are going to come down to budget and what you want to use the kit for. Are you happy to lug a bag full of camera gear around or do you want something to go in a jacket pocket or small bag?

Nana · 26-02-2010, 09:19

Like all cameras SLRs have a simple do it all setting that you can use until you're inclined to try using the apperture or shutter speed setting, or even full manual settings.
The cost is an important factor as you have to take into account camera, lenses and other extras in the future (bags, tripod, extra cards, flash etc).

If you have the money to spare and want to make the commitment to taking better pictures choose a DSLR, but imo choose a compact if you just like to take a nice snap now and again.

AdminSpod · 26-02-2010, 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulsaz

Buying a flash camera wont automatically get you better pictures.

Er, yes it will actually! Even without understanding exposure, the bigger sensor on a DSLR will give you better, clearer images than a compact. The more expensive DSLRs will have better image processing units. The really expensive full-frame models will give even better images, again because of the increased sensor size. And that's just using them on auto.

The DSLR will also respond more quickly than most compacts when you press the shutter release. That will give you a much better chance of getting an action or critically timed shot. Most DSLRs have a better grip than most compacts. That aids stability and reduces camera shake.

Sure they won't make you a better photographer from the point of view of seeing and understanding how to get the best pictures, but the "flash" DSLR camera will definitely give you better images.

AdminSpod · 26-02-2010, 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munas

I know a DSLR will produce better photo's, but would you have to be an expert and take ages sorting the ISO's apertures and what not?

Just about all DSLR cameras have at least 1 auto mode - just as easy to use as any compact.

If you want to go deeper you can switch to semi-automatic and either choose a shutter speed or an aperture and let the camera choose the other. That will help you to learn the effects of shutter speed and aperture. You can pick it up over time.

You will be also able to use exposure compensation to over- or under- expose if you want to create a specific effect. Again, you can experiment at your leisure if you are interested.

To start with though you can just leave everything on auto. The DSLR cameras these days have excellent exposure systems. They do get things right most of the time.

Shoei · 26-02-2010, 10:13

Waves the GF1 flag.

But AdminSpod has hit the nail on the head regards dSLR over Compact.
Though the Micro 4/3's like the Olympus EP1 and Panansonic GF1 are catching up. They'll never match a dSLR in some respects but in others they work really well. Can put my GF1 in a trouser or jacket pocket no problem and they dont seem as "in your face" when taking pics of people.

Best thing is go find a shop that'll let you play and dont be daunted by all the features of a dSLR, beauty about shooting digital is that if its a naff shot its not cost you anything and if its shot in RAW you may be able to save the pic in post processing.

paulsaz · 26-02-2010, 11:30

I'm going to disagree with AdminSpod with a few major caveats. We have no idea of budgetary or other requirements and the high end compacts and 4/3'ds stuff produce images of an excellent quality that are more than good enough technically to satisfy the needs of the vast majority of users.

If the OP needs work that will require the technical levels of the high end dslr's then he's going to need to learn the theory regardless and if he doesn't then a good compact or 4/3'ds will be more than sufficient.

I'm unwilling to make a recommendation until I've heard more but the g11 and gf1 spring instantly to mind for someone making the step from compacts to taking their photograhy a little more seriously. If the OP is after the best technical image quality then they'll be looking for a Hassy HD4 as they crap all over those mickey mouse dSLR's.

rick67 · 26-02-2010, 11:50

If he's not bothered about size then why go 4/3s instead of DSLR? He'd easily get a decent DSLR kit for 4/3s money

paulsaz · 26-02-2010, 12:04

Agreed dSLR may be the best option but we don't know if he is bothered about the size. Plus frankly the build quality and features on the gf1 and g11 are likely to be better than say the 1000d.

mebz · 26-02-2010, 15:28

DSLR best way to go. Stick it in AV or TV mode...if that fails then AUTO it. You'll learn a lot about how to take good photos as you start becoming more proficient with the sDSLR in AV/TV or M mode.

You can get a good entry level 400d second hand for about £200 and then maybe pick up a lens or two covering say 18mm up to 200mm

All in all, a nice kit can be bought for under £350 (2nd hand of course)

AdminSpod · 26-02-2010, 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulsaz

We have no idea of budgetary or other requirements

So what? The OP clearly stated that he's considering high end compacts and DSLRs but wasn't clear if going the DSLR route would require too much technical knowledge. You can use DSLRs with minimal technical knowledge so that's been answered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulsaz

the high end compacts and 4/3'ds stuff produce images of an excellent quality that are more than good enough technically to satisfy the needs of the vast majority of users.

While it is true that 4/3 does come close to the image quality of DSLRs, most compacts do not, even most of the high-end ones. The image quality comes down to sensor size, lens quality and image processor quality - and a large sensor will give you better images than a small one. Very few compacts come with large sensors. Even a lot of the "top end" ones.

Yes, 4/3 could be a sensible choice. The sensors are nearly as large as DSLR and I haven't heard of any poor quality 4/3 lenses. I don't know enough about the Canon G11 to comment on that particular model.

mebz · 26-02-2010, 17:28

I am after a compact and took various daylight photos with the Canon G11 and the sharpness was not that much more impressive than a budget £100 Canon (can't remember model). The G11 is around the £380 mark and the 4/3 micros are nearly twice that. So I reiterate that getting a DSLR is the best route and value for money vs high end compacts.

My tip if you want to go for a brand new kit

Canon EOS 450D + 18-55mm IS kit lens

Let us know if you do have a budget in mind and we can make suggestions.

You have to first decide what camera category you will go for though!

Munas · 26-02-2010, 18:42

Wow, just seen this. Thanks for the responses. My budget would be around £350-£400.
As for size, I wouldn't mind carrying a small bag with a camera in it, but wouldn't carry tripods, extra lens and stuff.

As for use, I wouldn't really be using it for landscapes and "fancy" shots. Just like to take regular family day out shots, birthdays, holidays etc.

I would be interested in learning how to take decent shots using iso's etc. but it seems really daunting. Also is it known for a DSLR user just to have one set of lens or do you all have different lens for different situations?

I'm edging towards a DSLR, the prices between them and high end compacts aren't that significant and the only benefit of a comapct I can see over the dslr is size?

DeadYankee · 26-02-2010, 18:52

It isn't daunting but the whole ethos of SLRs is the interchangability of lenses. I just can't see the point in going down the SLR route unless you have a desire to take it further than a few family snaps. In which case you'll want to get a tripod and more lenses. The question you want to address first is what is wrong with the shots you are currently getting and whether it is the fault of the camera that you are unhappy with them.

Munas · 26-02-2010, 19:02

Outside shots are fine. But indoors and low-light ones are all grainy. It might be the way I took the shots, tried all different settings but can't get decent shots.

You saying that about lens and stuff has made me think again. :-(

mebz · 26-02-2010, 19:32

If you bought a DSLR and an 18-200mm lens, you would not need to buy any more. As for being able to take photos easily, well you can keep the DSLR in auto-mode when you need it and in manual when you want to mess around and learn more about the camera.

My 5 year can use my DSLR to take half-decent photos in auto-mode mate

Munas · 26-02-2010, 19:34

I think I'll never know 100% if a dslr is right for me until I start using one. So I'm gonna go for it, I can always sell it if it doesn't work out.

So any recommendations? £400, I wouldn't mind 2nd hand either.

mebz · 26-02-2010, 19:54

A 2nd hand mint condition Canon EOS 400D can be bought on forums usually between £200-£250

A Tamron 18-200mm F/3.5-6.3 XR Di II LD Aspherical (IF) Macro can be bought brand new for £159

As you build up more competence with the camera, you could always invest in more/better lenses. With compacts you can't do that.

I think you should put up a wanted post in the classifieds..you might get lucky

Munas · 26-02-2010, 20:52

Assuming I can get a 400d for £250, with the len it would take it to £410.

Wouldn't I be better off getting a Nikon D3000 for £356

Or there's a mint Nikon D5000 with the same lens for £375 on another site?

Or is a Canon with those lens you mention the way to go?

AdminSpod · 27-02-2010, 23:31

If you can get the mint Nikon D5000 for £375 with lens then go for that rather than a new D3000. I don't know enough about the Canon models to comment on them. The D5000 is a significantly better camera than the D3000 and is even capable of taking some high definition video.

The cheapest brand new Nikon D5000 is at Currys - use discount code ALL5 to bring the price down to £503.49 and then claim £50 back from Nikon: http://www.nikon.co.uk/sites/cashbac...00-spring.html - but that does mean forking out £500 and then claiming £50 back which will probably take a couple of months to arrive!

26-02-2010, 09:00	#1
Munas Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 897 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	New Camera Help Please: DSLR or High-End Compact I currently have a Fuji F72EXR compact, on occasions it produces very nice photo's but a lot of the times it produces pretty poor results. I had a Fuji F31fd, which was a lot better IMO. Should've kept it. I've been doing a little research and I'm now considering moving up to a better camera. I can't decide between a DSLR or a high-end compact. I know a DSLR will produce better photo's, but would you have to be an expert and take ages sorting the ISO's apertures and what not? I want the camera for, general use, holidays, days out etc. I don't mind tinkering about with it here and there, but dont want to be messing about with it for every shot. I looked at a few DSLR's in shops and I'm not that fussed about the size. Also with a compact like a G11 or an S90 will see a big improvement over my Fuji? Any help would be very much appreciated. __________________ DVD Profiler l YMDB

26-02-2010, 09:19	#3
Nana Walk without rhythm Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Dune Posts: 1,786 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Like all cameras SLRs have a simple do it all setting that you can use until you're inclined to try using the apperture or shutter speed setting, or even full manual settings. The cost is an important factor as you have to take into account camera, lenses and other extras in the future (bags, tripod, extra cards, flash etc). If you have the money to spare and want to make the commitment to taking better pictures choose a DSLR, but imo choose a compact if you just like to take a nice snap now and again. __________________ Keeping The Faith

26-02-2010, 20:52	#19
Munas Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 897 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Assuming I can get a 400d for £250, with the len it would take it to £410. Wouldn't I be better off getting a Nikon D3000 for £356 Or there's a mint Nikon D5000 with the same lens for £375 on another site? Or is a Canon with those lens you mention the way to go? __________________ DVD Profiler l YMDB Last edited by Munas; 26-02-2010 at 20:53.

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26-02-2010, 09:09	#2
paulsaz 360: Loeb PSN: Loebz Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,231 Thanks: 6 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Buying a flash camera wont automatically get you better pictures. You need to understand a bit about shutter speed, aperture, iso etc and how they all affect each other and the image. You can do that on either a dslr or high end compact and there's a massive amount of choice these days. Recommendations are going to come down to budget and what you want to use the kit for. Are you happy to lug a bag full of camera gear around or do you want something to go in a jacket pocket or small bag?

26-02-2010, 10:13	#6
Shoei Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Heysham, Lancs Posts: 728 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Waves the GF1 flag. But AdminSpod has hit the nail on the head regards dSLR over Compact. Though the Micro 4/3's like the Olympus EP1 and Panansonic GF1 are catching up. They'll never match a dSLR in some respects but in others they work really well. Can put my GF1 in a trouser or jacket pocket no problem and they dont seem as "in your face" when taking pics of people. Best thing is go find a shop that'll let you play and dont be daunted by all the features of a dSLR, beauty about shooting digital is that if its a naff shot its not cost you anything and if its shot in RAW you may be able to save the pic in post processing.

26-02-2010, 11:30	#7
paulsaz 360: Loeb PSN: Loebz Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,231 Thanks: 6 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	I'm going to disagree with AdminSpod with a few major caveats. We have no idea of budgetary or other requirements and the high end compacts and 4/3'ds stuff produce images of an excellent quality that are more than good enough technically to satisfy the needs of the vast majority of users. If the OP needs work that will require the technical levels of the high end dslr's then he's going to need to learn the theory regardless and if he doesn't then a good compact or 4/3'ds will be more than sufficient. I'm unwilling to make a recommendation until I've heard more but the g11 and gf1 spring instantly to mind for someone making the step from compacts to taking their photograhy a little more seriously. If the OP is after the best technical image quality then they'll be looking for a Hassy HD4 as they crap all over those mickey mouse dSLR's.

26-02-2010, 11:50	#8
rick67 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 724 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	If he's not bothered about size then why go 4/3s instead of DSLR? He'd easily get a decent DSLR kit for 4/3s money

26-02-2010, 12:04	#9
paulsaz 360: Loeb PSN: Loebz Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,231 Thanks: 6 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Agreed dSLR may be the best option but we don't know if he is bothered about the size. Plus frankly the build quality and features on the gf1 and g11 are likely to be better than say the 1000d.

26-02-2010, 15:28	#10
mebz Hope to make it big one d Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 499 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	DSLR best way to go. Stick it in AV or TV mode...if that fails then AUTO it. You'll learn a lot about how to take good photos as you start becoming more proficient with the sDSLR in AV/TV or M mode. You can get a good entry level 400d second hand for about £200 and then maybe pick up a lens or two covering say 18mm up to 200mm All in all, a nice kit can be bought for under £350 (2nd hand of course)

26-02-2010, 17:28	#12
mebz Hope to make it big one d Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 499 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I am after a compact and took various daylight photos with the Canon G11 and the sharpness was not that much more impressive than a budget £100 Canon (can't remember model). The G11 is around the £380 mark and the 4/3 micros are nearly twice that. So I reiterate that getting a DSLR is the best route and value for money vs high end compacts. My tip if you want to go for a brand new kit Canon EOS 450D + 18-55mm IS kit lens Let us know if you do have a budget in mind and we can make suggestions. You have to first decide what camera category you will go for though!

26-02-2010, 18:42	#13
Munas Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 897 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wow, just seen this. Thanks for the responses. My budget would be around £350-£400. As for size, I wouldn't mind carrying a small bag with a camera in it, but wouldn't carry tripods, extra lens and stuff. As for use, I wouldn't really be using it for landscapes and "fancy" shots. Just like to take regular family day out shots, birthdays, holidays etc. I would be interested in learning how to take decent shots using iso's etc. but it seems really daunting. Also is it known for a DSLR user just to have one set of lens or do you all have different lens for different situations? I'm edging towards a DSLR, the prices between them and high end compacts aren't that significant and the only benefit of a comapct I can see over the dslr is size?

26-02-2010, 18:52	#14
DeadYankee Mr Carbohydrate Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 20,649 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post	It isn't daunting but the whole ethos of SLRs is the interchangability of lenses. I just can't see the point in going down the SLR route unless you have a desire to take it further than a few family snaps. In which case you'll want to get a tripod and more lenses. The question you want to address first is what is wrong with the shots you are currently getting and whether it is the fault of the camera that you are unhappy with them.

26-02-2010, 19:02	#15
Munas Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 897 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Outside shots are fine. But indoors and low-light ones are all grainy. It might be the way I took the shots, tried all different settings but can't get decent shots. You saying that about lens and stuff has made me think again. :-(

26-02-2010, 19:32	#16
mebz Hope to make it big one d Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 499 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	If you bought a DSLR and an 18-200mm lens, you would not need to buy any more. As for being able to take photos easily, well you can keep the DSLR in auto-mode when you need it and in manual when you want to mess around and learn more about the camera. My 5 year can use my DSLR to take half-decent photos in auto-mode mate

26-02-2010, 19:34	#17
Munas Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 897 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I think I'll never know 100% if a dslr is right for me until I start using one. So I'm gonna go for it, I can always sell it if it doesn't work out. So any recommendations? £400, I wouldn't mind 2nd hand either.

26-02-2010, 19:54	#18
mebz Hope to make it big one d Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 499 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	A 2nd hand mint condition Canon EOS 400D can be bought on forums usually between £200-£250 A Tamron 18-200mm F/3.5-6.3 XR Di II LD Aspherical (IF) Macro can be bought brand new for £159 As you build up more competence with the camera, you could always invest in more/better lenses. With compacts you can't do that. I think you should put up a wanted post in the classifieds..you might get lucky

27-02-2010, 23:31	#20
AdminSpod Does anybody read these? Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Oxford Posts: 4,904 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	If you can get the mint Nikon D5000 for £375 with lens then go for that rather than a new D3000. I don't know enough about the Canon models to comment on them. The D5000 is a significantly better camera than the D3000 and is even capable of taking some high definition video. The cheapest brand new Nikon D5000 is at Currys - use discount code ALL5 to bring the price down to £503.49 and then claim £50 back from Nikon: http://www.nikon.co.uk/sites/cashbac...00-spring.html - but that does mean forking out £500 and then claiming £50 back which will probably take a couple of months to arrive!