Derren Brown Events (How to win the National Lottery) - Page 7

rbullivant · 10-09-2009, 07:15

What he should have done is bought a lottery ticket with all the numbers -1 on the ticket, then i would be impressed. Lets be honest, there is no way he can actually guess the numbers or he would have done it before and made some money. The man is just a fraud, he didn't predict the numbers like he said he would

R

cjanderson · 10-09-2009, 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbullivant

What he should have done is bought a lottery ticket with all the numbers -1 on the ticket, then i would be impressed. Lets be honest, there is no way he can actually guess the numbers or he would have done it before and made some money. The man is just a fraud, he didn't predict the numbers like he said he would

R

you mean he isn't actually physic

and there is some trickery involved

badgerprincess · 10-09-2009, 07:30

Clues in his advert for the event IMO. I wouldnt be surprised if its split screen, if you watch the advert of him juggling, that is split screen I think. Its weird as Im sure he doesnt use camera tricks as anyone can do that...

I wouldnt call him a fraud, however, as hes anti-con artists, the idiots who con money out of people pretending they can speak to your dead relatives etc.

MetalGearAl · 10-09-2009, 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjanderson

you mean he isn't actually physic

and there is some trickery involved

I'd consider reading his book rbullivant if you'd like to know more about what he does and what he believes in. I don't think he could ever be described as a "fraud". He doesn't claim he's psychic, he just puts on a show!

w_n_s · 10-09-2009, 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by thescrounger

Indeed, the camera wobble was suspicious. A split screen while somebody went and put the winning balls on the stand I guess.

Exactly what I was thinking - there was no need for the wobble, it was there as some form of disguise - the split screen trick is what I told the missus as it was happening. He had a camera on the white card above, someone swapped the balls out and the split screen was returned to normal when the draw was finished.

I'm hoping it is less obvious and more intelligent.

chrisjm · 10-09-2009, 08:05

the legal thing was rubbish excuse, if he had announced it 30 minutes before it would be a prediction and not the official result so the bbc having first rights to announce is irrelivent as it wouldnt of been drawn yet.

MetalGearAl · 10-09-2009, 08:05

A split screen is certainly how it was done, but yes it'd be a shame if that's how. They can't really string that out to a whole show on Friday will they? Unless he does a load of guff about trying to narrow down the possibilites, etc. it didn't work so they changed to split screen.

If it wasn't a split screen, it's a shame they didn't have a fountain or something in the background moving to help show that it couldn't have been that. The fact they didn't though does seem to suggest it's what they did.

w_n_s · 10-09-2009, 08:09

I've changed my mind - after seeing him learn the london street guide the way he did, I believe he did every permutation of the lottery results and switched to that footage at the end. Failing that, they used a split screen.

It'll be something like that horse racing thing. He's had to do a lot of work for this IMO, but when we see it, it will be simple, but a lot of work and time on his part.

campdave · 10-09-2009, 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by w_n_s

I've changed my mind - after seeing him learn the london street guide the way he did, I believe he did every permutation of the lottery results

That would be millions of permutations. Pull the other one.

MetalGearAl · 10-09-2009, 08:28

You couldn't even write down every permuatation without going mad, let alone film them, it just couldn't be done.

w_n_s · 10-09-2009, 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by campdave

That would be millions of permutations. Pull the other one.

~ 14 million to be precise.

TheFatBoy · 10-09-2009, 08:32

There are 13,983,816 different results. Assuming the managed to set up and film each permutation in 20 minutes, and continued non-stop, that'd be 4,661,272 hours, or 532 years.

I'm guessing he didn't do that.

I hope it isn't, but I suspect it's a simple camera trick. It wouldn't need to be complex, he stalls for time looking all flustered and writing the numbers down while off-screen, someone else is watching the BBC and picking out the correct ping-pong balls. I would think the top of the stand would be just wide enough to fit the balls in exactly so there's no movement there and when the screen holds for those 3/4 seconds, someone swaps the holder out. That's how I'd do it.

I still think Derren Brown is an extraordinary entertainer though - and he's never claimed to be psychic, quite the opposite.

KRW · 10-09-2009, 08:35

He did say his apartment had been full of lottery balls for months....

I am sure the answer will be both very obvious and very clever/funny.

stephen · 10-09-2009, 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetalGearAl

That looks odd but how does that indicate a split screen switch? He's already turned them around at that point!

I thought it looked odd at first but I Think it's just because they're tightly packed in, when he pushed one in it moved one of the others up.

I'm talking about the bit where the stand is on the left hand side of the screen and he is on the right writing down and reading out the numbers just after they have been announced. When he says 23, the left most ball in the stand jumps up slightly. You have to look closely but it definitely happens, and that ball is also slightly raised when he comes to turn the stand around.

emeyedeejay · 10-09-2009, 09:10

Going to be very disappointed if this turns our to be camera trickery - I'll certainly not be interested to watch any more of him if he's resorting to that...

daboy3000 · 10-09-2009, 09:12

I swear some of you have forgotten what entertainment is because you've spent too long watching Xfactor and big brother.

Yes it was a trick, this is what the man does for a living. Its all about misdirection. He did not GUESS the lottery numbers, he only made it look like he did and that is what the illusion is all about. Its also has nothing to do with a delay between broadcasting times or anything unpredictable. There was no luck envolved as he wouldn't have done the show if there was a chance to get it wrong.

I'm not claiming to know how he does it but having watched most of his shows both on tv and live and reading his books i get an idea of what he's all about.

Nick dVl · 10-09-2009, 09:12

I reckon CGI trickery. The balls each have a blue square on them where the numbers are overlayed, sort of like augmented reality.

If he was really predicting the numbers, he could have shown the numbers he chose before they were revealed on the BBC (any legal argument to the contrary is bogus).

glowingcactus · 10-09-2009, 09:21

Quote:

I'm talking about the bit where the stand is on the left hand side of the screen and he is on the right writing down and reading out the numbers just after they have been announced. When he says 23, the left most ball in the stand jumps up slightly. You have to look closely but it definitely happens, and that ball is also slightly raised when he comes to turn the stand around.

Yes. I am sure you have nailed it. Just viewed it in HQ directly on the YouTube page quoted earlier.

Used MacOSX Leopard built-in screen zoom facility: go to about 1min.57 start play then zoom right in (if you have Leopard, ctrl- mouse scroll wheel, move the mouse to locate the area you want). To confirm left most ball movement, look at the bottom of the ball as well as the top. The dark gaps either side grow slightly. The top is higher than the rest of the row. The 'movement' is when the wipe or blend from pre-recorded, maybe static left half is made. (initially static left half with live right half, to live full frame). Hand-on-mouth is during studio silence part, with BBC audio only (imagine the sound of a dropped ping-pong ball bouncing or squeaky trainer shoe).

The writing on the card maybe adds some time for the (hidden) placing of the balls, but it is also to give viewers a quick comparison to verify that the numbers are the same. Everything in the background cables etc is strictly left undisturbed (Maybe even glued to floor). Lighting is also key. It has to be identical for the two halves and no moving shadows from DB must encroach on to the left. The camera wobble is rigorously programmed either on a kinetic camera base or electronically. Not sure which is easier.

He would have done this several times but only to rehearse every aspect of the act, studio set-up, finding the possible things that go wrong with times and mixing crew till it is visually perfect. I bet he is annoyed with who ever placed that left ball which would have been the last to be placed and perhaps the closest to the times-up, maybe nerves or maybe that is an intended 'tell'.

All the rest is just patter and verbal misdirection, a distraction. No year of his life lost. No problems with BBC etc. Remains to be seen if he invents something for Friday or confesses to using camera tricks.

emeyedeejay · 10-09-2009, 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by daboy3000

I swear some of you have forgotten what entertainment is because you've spent too long watching Xfactor and big brother.

Yes it was a trick, this is what the man does for a living. Its all about misdirection. He did not GUESS the lottery numbers, he only made it look like he did and that is what the illusion is all about. Its also has nothing to do with a delay between broadcasting times or anything unpredictable. There was no luck envolved as he wouldn't have done the show if there was a chance to get it wrong.

I'm not claiming to know how he does it but having watched most of his shows both on tv and live and reading his books i get an idea of what he's all about.

Not sure if that was directed at my post or not but if so - I absolutely agree with you - I enjoy watching his shows ... i think his techniques and abilities re "phschology" and misdirection etc. are fascinating.

And yes - there is obviously "trickery" involved - all I was saying is I hope the trickery/misdirection etc. does not turn out to be a camera trick/split screen or anything along those lines - that would be a disappointment for me personally...

daboy3000 · 10-09-2009, 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by emeyedeejay

Not sure if that was directed at my post or not but if so - I absolutely agree with you - I enjoy watching his shows ... i think his techniques and abilities re "phschology" and misdirection etc. are fascinating.

No mate, was not directed at you, started writing it before you posted and i am no Derren Brown!

Think how many illustionists/magicians use mirrors, not much difference between that and camera trickery.

10-09-2009, 08:09	#128
w_n_s Scare Mongerer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Currently in Belfast Posts: 4,659 Thanks: 4 Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts	I've changed my mind - after seeing him learn the london street guide the way he did, I believe he did every permutation of the lottery results and switched to that footage at the end. Failing that, they used a split screen. It'll be something like that horse racing thing. He's had to do a lot of work for this IMO, but when we see it, it will be simple, but a lot of work and time on his part. __________________ what you call it when you look at the sky in a poetic kind of way Last edited by w_n_s; 10-09-2009 at 08:15.

10-09-2009, 08:32	#132
TheFatBoy Gold Trader since 1834 Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Telford Posts: 3,171 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	There are 13,983,816 different results. Assuming the managed to set up and film each permutation in 20 minutes, and continued non-stop, that'd be 4,661,272 hours, or 532 years. I'm guessing he didn't do that. I hope it isn't, but I suspect it's a simple camera trick. It wouldn't need to be complex, he stalls for time looking all flustered and writing the numbers down while off-screen, someone else is watching the BBC and picking out the correct ping-pong balls. I would think the top of the stand would be just wide enough to fit the balls in exactly so there's no movement there and when the screen holds for those 3/4 seconds, someone swaps the holder out. That's how I'd do it. I still think Derren Brown is an extraordinary entertainer though - and he's never claimed to be psychic, quite the opposite. __________________ My new movie review blog - www.m365d.com - Comment and win stuff! Traded with me and want to leave feedback? Thread here!

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Derren Brown - The System (CH4 21:00)	camaj	Television Discussion	37	04-02-2008 16:41
Derren Brown - The Heist (C4 - 9PM)	morleyian	Television Discussion	76	15-04-2006 23:30
Derren Brown The Gathering on C4 now (Fri 9pm)	ian-n	Television Discussion	7	03-12-2005 12:00

10-09-2009, 07:15	#121
rbullivant Finger Lickin Good Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Preston, Lancashire, England Posts: 4,480 Thanks: 14 Thanked 14 Times in 7 Posts	What he should have done is bought a lottery ticket with all the numbers -1 on the ticket, then i would be impressed. Lets be honest, there is no way he can actually guess the numbers or he would have done it before and made some money. The man is just a fraud, he didn't predict the numbers like he said he would R

10-09-2009, 07:30	#123
badgerprincess Stormer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wilts Posts: 943 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Clues in his advert for the event IMO. I wouldnt be surprised if its split screen, if you watch the advert of him juggling, that is split screen I think. Its weird as Im sure he doesnt use camera tricks as anyone can do that... I wouldnt call him a fraud, however, as hes anti-con artists, the idiots who con money out of people pretending they can speak to your dead relatives etc.

10-09-2009, 08:05	#126
chrisjm Roar! Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: London Posts: 4,471 Thanks: 10 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	the legal thing was rubbish excuse, if he had announced it 30 minutes before it would be a prediction and not the official result so the bbc having first rights to announce is irrelivent as it wouldnt of been drawn yet.

10-09-2009, 08:05	#127
MetalGearAl Tiptoptastic Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Thereabouts Posts: 17,459 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	A split screen is certainly how it was done, but yes it'd be a shame if that's how. They can't really string that out to a whole show on Friday will they? Unless he does a load of guff about trying to narrow down the possibilites, etc. it didn't work so they changed to split screen. If it wasn't a split screen, it's a shame they didn't have a fountain or something in the background moving to help show that it couldn't have been that. The fact they didn't though does seem to suggest it's what they did.

10-09-2009, 08:28	#130
MetalGearAl Tiptoptastic Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Thereabouts Posts: 17,459 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	You couldn't even write down every permuatation without going mad, let alone film them, it just couldn't be done.

10-09-2009, 08:35	#133
KRW Xbox - KaRW/ PSN KaRW1 Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 19,456 Thanks: 9 Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts	He did say his apartment had been full of lottery balls for months.... I am sure the answer will be both very obvious and very clever/funny.

10-09-2009, 09:10	#135
emeyedeejay Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: London Posts: 4,076 Thanks: 8 Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts	Going to be very disappointed if this turns our to be camera trickery - I'll certainly not be interested to watch any more of him if he's resorting to that...

10-09-2009, 09:12	#136
daboy3000 Forum Muderator Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Gingerbread Corner Posts: 1,990 Thanks: 10 Thanked 40 Times in 6 Posts	I swear some of you have forgotten what entertainment is because you've spent too long watching Xfactor and big brother. Yes it was a trick, this is what the man does for a living. Its all about misdirection. He did not GUESS the lottery numbers, he only made it look like he did and that is what the illusion is all about. Its also has nothing to do with a delay between broadcasting times or anything unpredictable. There was no luck envolved as he wouldn't have done the show if there was a chance to get it wrong. I'm not claiming to know how he does it but having watched most of his shows both on tv and live and reading his books i get an idea of what he's all about.

10-09-2009, 09:12	#137
Nick dVl Registered User Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I reckon CGI trickery. The balls each have a blue square on them where the numbers are overlayed, sort of like augmented reality. If he was really predicting the numbers, he could have shown the numbers he chose before they were revealed on the BBC (any legal argument to the contrary is bogus).