The Classic Western Thread part two

[haineshisway]

Originally Posted by Cecil B

Could Mr Hodson answer this one ?
Amazon in the US shows a collector's edition and one marked "digitally mastered". Anyone have experience with either?

BTW, "Distant Trumpet" has one of the great western film scores, IMO.

Are you asking about High Noon? If so, see my post - the Paramount version (apparently available in many countries other than the US) puts the region 1 to shame - the region 1 looks like a VHS in comparison.

[John Hodson]

Originally Posted by Cecil B

Could Mr Hodson answer this one ?
Amazon in the US shows a collector's edition and one marked "digitally mastered". Anyone have experience with either?

This Beaver comparison shows both the R1s, and Universal's awful UK R2.

HHW speaks the truth: hitch_fan posted a link to this review of the Dutch Paramount R2 in the old western thread - just sold my R1 'Collectors Edition' and the Dutch edition (the French R2 is also the same transfer) is on order

[CinéKarine]

The Beaver on the Randolph Scott films released Tuesday:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDre...le_feature.htm

[Livius]

Originally Posted by CinéKarine

The Beaver on the Randolph Scott films released Tuesday:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDre...le_feature.htm

Looking a bit rough, but I'm still glad that these are available. Mine are still on order at Pacific.

[John Hodson]

I've just received the new Paramount High Noon SE from Mediadis.com in the Netherlands. Bearing in mind the fact that Paramount, who, as others have said, have restored this film to an extremely high standard, have effectively refused the R1 rights to release this themselves, giving the rights they won back to Lions Gate. And that the rights in the UK rest with Universal, that their previously dreadful transfer is OOP over here right now (though still available in a 'Grace Kelly' set), if, in any way you are a fan of this genuinely thrilling western - you MUST get either the Dutch or French Paramount SE.

Now, look, I'm a big ol' softie, but I wept with pure joy when I slapped this into my player, and that was only briefly looking through a few scenes. It's stunningly good.

The previous Artisan R1 wasn't that bad, I tried to tell myself; well this iteration shows you how good it could have been. Luminous, sharp, detailed, it's a pure joy. Paramount have not only produced a soundtrack in stereo for those that want it, but also provide the original mono, fully restored, with Tex Ritter coming over loud and clear.

All the extras from the previous Artisan edition appear to be in place, and it's as English friendly as it could be - the opening menu gives you a choice of languages, choose English and there's no removing subs, (just go to the sound menu and press 'mono').

I picked it up from the above supplier for €8.99 plus postage - came to a little over £8 delivered, which, seeing as I sold the Artisan for £6 wasn't too bad.

As things stand, this is as good as it's ever going to get (discounting HD), but they don't come much better.

[Frank M]

Originally Posted by John Hodson

you MUST get either the Dutch or French Paramount SE.

... or the Australian SE which is identical. See here

[haineshisway]

As I posted earlier, it's a brilliant transfer and I couldn't agree with Mr. Hodson more.

[John Hodson]

I've just watched it through now; it was an almost religious experience (thanks to Frank; I forgot about the R4 version)

[EvaUnit02]

I bought the R4 SE today. Excellent transfer and what an outstanding film, I really shouldn't have put off seeing it for so long.

Is this considered a revisionist Western? The featurettes said this film didn't follow the conventions of Westerns of the late 40's/early 50's. I wouldn't know, this was my first non-Leone/Peckinpah Western.

Anyway I've taken these screenshots, can anyone confirm whether they match up with Dutch/French releases? Thanks.

I had forgotten that Lee Van Cleef was supposed to be in this. Anyway they've applied minor windowboxing to the opening credits sequence as you can see from the first couple caps, I don't think anyone will care though.

[John Hodson]

Originally Posted by EvaUnit02

I bought the R4 SE today. Excellent transfer and what an outstanding film, I really shouldn't have put off seeing it for so long.

Is this considered a revisionist Western? The featurettes said this film didn't follow the conventions of Westerns of the late 40's/early 50's. I wouldn't know, this was my first non-Leone/Peckinpah Western.

Anyway I've taken these screenshots, can anyone confirm whether they match up with Dutch/French releases? Thanks.

I had forgotten that Lee Van Cleef was supposed to be in this. Anyway they've applied minor windowboxing to the opening credits sequence as you can see, I don't think anyone will care though.

Yup, that appears to be the same delicious transfer. The truth is that, like Shane, High Noon's stock appears to have fallen over the years and I don't quite know how to account for it.

I keep banging on about this, but while their films shocked and stunned cinema audiences, the road to both Leone and Peckinpah was evolutionary rather than wholly revolutionary, and as you can see, the former paid due homage to High Noon in OUATITW.

It helped that Zinnemann, who had never directed a western before, came to the job with no preconceptions, that his scriptwriter was filled with enough anger to turn a pretty average story into a thrilling, human tale, that Coop - and I bristle and any suggestions that he was, as some suggest, 'wooden' - was right on top of his game as Will Kane, that it's edited with such brio almost in 'real' time, photographed in such a stark and stylish fashion, and that Tiomkin's score (I think his very best, even better than his favoured The Alamo) provides the most perfect marriage of sound and image.

What I've always found intriguing is the fact that Cooper, on the face of it a Hollywood liberal, was one of the first to give willing testimony to HUAC, yet, he's an intelligent man, and must have taken the part knowing the sub text.

And I'm not wholly convinced that Hawks' Rio Bravo is the riposte to High Noon that both he and Wayne always said it was. I think it's a riposte to Carl Foreman (and the rest of those 'pinkos'; an entirely different matter), who left America with HUAC on his case even before High Noon opened. Wayne said that he was proud of the fact that he'd helped drive Foreman out of the US.

High Noon, like Shane, is one of the greatest westerns ever made, it has some incredible moments, but more than that, those mements - Kane scratching out his will as Tiompkin's score pounds out the ticking seconds to noon, the crane shot as a sweating, nervous Kane stands alone on main street, ready to meet his destiny, that two sentence exchange in Spanish betwen Kane and Helen that tells you everything you need to know about love lost - hang together to form one of the most economical, exciting, thrilling films you'll see.

[EvaUnit02]

Thank you John for such an indepth reply.

the former paid due homage to High Noon in OUATITW.

Yup, that was immediately apparent to me when Miller's gang showed up at the train station.

that Coop - and I bristle and any suggestions that he was, as some suggest, 'wooden'

LOL, really? I thought that Cooper was outstanding in HN. But Lloyd Bridges was quite poor though IMO, not a patch on his son Jeff's talent.

Question: I have My Darling Clementine (both cuts), The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance and The Shootist sitting unwatched. In which order do you suggest that I watch them in (and which cut of TMWSLV specifically)? Thanks. I've never seen a Ford or a Wayne film.

[douglasb]

Originally Posted by John Hodson

Yup, that appears to be the same delicious transfer. The truth is that, like Shane, High Noon's stock appears to have fallen over the years and I don't quite know how to account for it.

I think everything's stock has fallen over the years. As you rightly point out, you can't understand the evolution of the Western without SHANE or HIGH NOON, but you suspect anyone under about 30 gravitates towards the Spaghettis and leaves it at that. It's probably the same for many genres, not just the Western.

D.

[John Hodson]

Originally Posted by EvaUnit02

Question: I have My Darling Clementine (both cuts), The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance and The Shootist sitting unwatched. In which order do you suggest that I watch them in (and which cut of TMWSLV specifically)? Thanks. I've never seen a Ford or a Wayne film.

Watch them in that order, I think, and I recommend you watch the pre-release of My Darling Clementine (I take it you meant that) in preference to the theatrical version (come back to that last). And buy Shane (a fitting tribute to Walter Jack Palance; balls to City Slickers).

[EvaUnit02]

Originally Posted by John Hodson

Watch them in that order, I think, and I recommend you watch the pre-release of My Darling Clementine (I take it you meant that) in preference to the theatrical version (come back to that last).

Thanks again John.

And buy Shane (a fitting tribute to Walter Jack Palance;

Which is the best release of the film? I can't afford any mainland European DVDs because the Euro-NZD exchange rate is too high.

balls to City Slickers).

Ugh, I can't stand Billy Crystal.

[John Hodson]

There is only one version out there; this is it. It's a very nice transfer by Paramount with a decent commentary track. Blistering film which has the perfect blend of gritty realism and western romanticism; Palance is evil personified, Ladd was never better and it's beautifully photographed.

Love it; come back to this thread when you've watch all these with your thoughts won't you?

[EvaUnit02]

Hey John, was it Johnny Guitar or Shane in which you said had Alan Ladd standing on crates?

[John Hodson]

...or in holes. Shane; get that image out of your head before you watch it fer gawd's sake

[EvaUnit02]

Originally Posted by John Hodson

There is only one version out there; this is it. It's a very nice transfer by Paramount with a decent commentary track. Blistering film which has the perfect blend of gritty realism and western romanticism; Palance is evil personified, Ladd was never better and it's beautifully photographed.

Thanks once again John, you're very helpful.

come back to this thread when you've watch all these with your thoughts won't you?

Oh yes, will do.

[EvaUnit02]

Bah! The R2/4 of Shane are missing the mono track. Typical. Will be a while before my next R1 order too, the last DDD 20% off sale has wiped me out for some time.

EDIT: DVDbeaver says it does have the English mono, but Michaeldvd says that it doesn't. Who should I believe?

[John Hodson]

Ezy says it has mono; MichaelDVD says: 'It is Dolby Digital 2.0 with the surround encoding flag set, at 192kbps. I only noticed activity from the centre channel, suggesting that this is really a mono soundtrack (unsurprising — the original soundtrack was mono). ' So that'll be fine.