View Full Version : Bands Who Play Live In A Lower Key
clarkyboy100
24-11-2010, 14:06
Probably a bit of a daft one, but I've often been slightly put off by going to see a band live, where they play most of their songs in a lower key. I think I've got a pre-conceived idea of how they should sound when I turn up (obviously due to the recorded versions), so it takes me a while to adjust I think.
Thinking about bands I've seen who do this, Metallica are a prime example. It takes me a song or two to get into it. I've even seen Queens of the Stone Age drop further from their drop C tuning. :nuts:
Some bands will do it with a certain song, like Muse seem to do it with Sing For Absolution, but will play the rest of their set in the recorded key.
I know it's to do with the singers vocal range and what he/she is comfortable singing at length, night after night, but it seems odd to me that they don't record their songs in a lower key too. Maybe the higher key has more impact on a recording?
Also I'll turn to whoever I'm with at a concert and say 'they are playing that in a lower key', and they don't notice the difference. Just like people not noticing the pitch difference between PAL and NTSC.
Don't know what I'm asking here, do you notice it at all? Do any live performers here do the same? I've seen plenty cover bands who always play in the recorded key.
Quite often songs get recorded in a different key at the behest of the producer - when the band plays it live, they'll tend to perform it the way it was written.
Some bands - Metallica are an example & Rush are another - adjust the keys of songs because the vocalists either can't hit the notes any more, or would ruin their voices doing so every night for the duration of a tour.
J.
very very common to find stuff played live half a step down and recorded at concert pitch because in the studio you can do what you want :)
Personally doesn't bother me at all.
Doesn't bother me either - I can't tell the difference even though I am a musician.
However it's interesting and reflects the fact some people are born with perfect pitch - the ability to identify/recognise a particular note when you hear it - and some aren't.
Dunno if you play an instrument Clarkyboy, but it's a hell of a good skill to have if you do!
J.
DeadYankee
25-11-2010, 10:09
Doesn't bother me either - I can't tell the difference even though I am a musician.
+1, (although describing myself as a 'musician' may be a bit of an overstatement!)
clarkyboy100
25-11-2010, 10:48
Yeah I play guitar, although again calling myself a musician would definitely be taking it too far. It doesn't bother me so much as I find it really noticable to begin with, but I soon get into it. I think I've trained myself to the recorded version of the songs, which I've also played along to quite a lot on guitar, but then get to the gig and it just seems really noticable to me.
I think I've got the ear for the music, I can recognise the key and chord patterns etc just listening to music, but unfortunately the hands don't want to work at the same speed as the head.
Can't say I've ever noticed this, can you link to anything on Youtube which demonstrates it?
clarkyboy100
25-11-2010, 13:05
Yep...
Metallica - Enter Sandman (recorded version)
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Same song live on Jools Holland...
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DeadYankee
25-11-2010, 13:36
Also you can check out the original single of James' 'Sit Down' and compare it to the G-Mex live version. Totally different keys.
And that second 'Tallica clip demonstrates why they should've started doing this sooner. James' voice is shot.
J.
Cant say Ive noticed this either. Its easy to hear it when comparing two videos, but when a band like metallica is blasting it out live??
And You can notice that from the crowd??
Cant understand the love for metallica still. Then again Ive only ever heard the two good songs they had all the way thru without turning it off.:D
xample & Rush are another - adjust the keys of songs because the vocalists either can't hit the notes any more, or would ruin their voices doing so every night for the duration of a tour.
J.
That was my thinking.
Listen to Percy Plant now compared to back in the day. It's s different bloke.
Cant say Ive noticed this either. Its easy to hear it when comparing two videos, but when a band like metallica is blasting it out live??
And You can notice that from the crowd??
Cant understand the love for metallica still. Then again Ive only ever heard the two good songs they had all the way thru without turning it off.:D
Like I said, you'd only notice if if you had perfect pitch, which isn't particularly common.
And Metallica? One of the most influential metal bands in the history of the genre, made 4 stunning albums which changed the face of metal, lost their way for a few years but had a blistering return to form with their last album. And still rock like ************ live! Good enough reasons for me!
J.
DeadYankee
25-11-2010, 19:35
Metallica would have been remembered as one of the greatest bands of all time if they'd called it a day in 1988. As it stands, I just try and pretend that they did
LouBarlow
25-11-2010, 19:50
Metallica would have been remembered as one of the greatest bands of all time if they'd called it a day in 1988. As it stands, I just try and pretend that they did
DiS
Also, it seems to be generally bands who multitrack their recording sessions who sound the most different live, I find. Obviously a band who just records 'live' will sound the same way...erm...live :p
I tend to find a lot of bands play 'faster' live too.
clarkyboy100
26-11-2010, 08:57
None of you heard Death Magnetic then? It's a glorious album! Back to the glory days in my opinion. The Black Album is still a great album too. Load and Reload are decent enough but they had changed pace by then so there was no comparison to their earlier stuff really.
It's immediately obvious to me when a band comes on stage and plays a half step lower. I mean really obvious. It doesn't annoy me but I don't understand how people can't notice it. I've not had any proper training or anything. :shrug:
It's just an ability some people have & some don't, like that tongue-rolling thing.
And I agree, Death Magnetic's a great album - best thing they've done since Justice, by a long way.
J.
One of their best songs in my opinion, and one of their most recent:
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None of you heard Death Magnetic then?
Great album, but it's so badly compressed and the sound is boosted that it makes me cringe.
Get the Guitar Hero version instead, sounds great. I bought the CD on release but got whole of that version which is infinitely better.
SIMON ADEBISI
26-11-2010, 14:03
One of their best songs in my opinion, and one of their most recent:
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Killer song :D
clarkyboy100
26-11-2010, 14:35
Great album, but it's so badly compressed and the sound is boosted that it makes me cringe.
Sounds awesome on my stereo. I've played it roughly 70 billion times or something! :D
Killer song :D
See, to me, that is just noise. I couldnt sit thru 2 hours of that.
SIMON ADEBISI
26-11-2010, 14:56
Different strokes man.
And you are an oldie too :D
Sounds awesome on my stereo. I've played it roughly 70 billion times or something! :D
to be serious for a second, you should get the guitar hero version that allan was on about, would sound even better :D
Interesting little article about it here http://www.wired.com/listening_post/2008/09/does-metallicas/
True, but mebbe I just prefer something a bit more melodic.
Is this common recently? I only ask because I'd have put this down to the album being mastered with the tapes running faster in some cases. Radiohead's The Bends is slightly sharp for most of the album. I'm guessing this is due to factors of speed: you tend to record slower than you'd play live.
There's an anecdote somewhere from a producer saying how they recorded an album for someone and then did cassette versions for the band members to listen to at home. When it came to playing it finally after they'd all listened the main guy said something like, "That's not right! It should sound like this," handing over his cassette, which the producer then discovered was recorded slightly fast, so that was what the album was mastered from.
Anyway, you might well record it at one speed then listen over and realise it's just too sluggish.
LeftHandedGuitarist
27-11-2010, 17:26
I usually can notice it when a song is played live in a different key, but most of the bands I follow don't seem to do this. One I did notice once when trying to figure out how to play some songs on guitar was Blondie's live performances - they seem to play a LOT lower than the original studio versions (like a perfect fifth or more lower!).
If it's just a half-step difference it's usually not that obvious. As people said earlier, pitches get changed in the studio sometimes after recording to achieve a certain sound, and when it's translated to a live environment they play it in the original key it was intended. The most obvious one which springs to mind is '39 by Queen, which was pitch-shifted up from G to Ab in the studio.
In my cover's band we have had to occasionally change the key of a song to match our (female) singer's voice, or because the guitars on the original recording were in a different tuning (eg, Buddy Holly by Weezer) and usually it's no more than a half-step. Honestly, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference 99% of the time, but there are some songs where it just sounds instantly WRONG!
clarkyboy100
28-11-2010, 11:58
Is this common recently? I only ask because I'd have put this down to the album being mastered with the tapes running faster in some cases. Radiohead's The Bends is slightly sharp for most of the album. I'm guessing this is due to factors of speed: you tend to record slower than you'd play live.
I think the Bends is deliberate. I play all the songs on that album and I think they go like this (someone can correct me)..
Planet Telex - Slightly sharp
The Bends - Slightly sharp
High and Dry - Normal
Fake Plastic Trees - Normal
Bones - Normal
Nice Dream - Normal
Just - Slightly sharp
My Iron Lung - Normal
Bullet Proof - Normal
Black Star - Slightly sharp
Sulk - Normal
Street Spirit - Slightly flat
I read somewhere that AC/DC just tuned their instruments with each other but not to a specific key and just recorded whatever felt right.
Jimmyboy
28-11-2010, 16:31
Never really considered this before. I'm a little surprised by it actually coz I'd imagine it would make performing live much more difficult if you're changing keys from how songs were originally written.
Tom Whitaker
29-11-2010, 23:47
All Nightmare Long is a tuuuuuuune.
Is this Guitar Hero mix of the album officially available? I own it in the game, and that song is an absolute blast to play.
None of you heard Death Magnetic then? It's a glorious album! Back to the glory days in my opinion. The Black Album is still a great album too. Load and Reload are decent enough but they had changed pace by then so there was no comparison to their earlier stuff really.
It's immediately obvious to me when a band comes on stage and plays a half step lower. I mean really obvious. It doesn't annoy me but I don't understand how people can't notice it. I've not had any proper training or anything. :shrug:
I cant say I've noticed while at a gig, its only if I've tried to play along with a DVD later that its become obvious
As for Metallica I'll always remember them for the Napster rant. Shame
having never really noticed this i'm now likely to become obsessed by it. Thanks.
:)
I cant say I've noticed while at a gig, its only if I've tried to play along with a DVD later that its become obvious
As for Metallica I'll always remember them for the Napster rant. Shame
In hindsight, I'm completely in favour of their problem with napster. People were getting music for free when they should've have been, simple. All along they said they didn't care about bootlegs etc. just their studio recordings.
Sounds fair enough to me.
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