View Full Version : Lost 6X8 'Recon' *Spoilers*
Sawyer episode!
I do appreciate his story and character change over 6 seasons. One of the most richly-written and well-acted of the whole series.
Soooooo many flashsideways interactions, inclusing some very surprising ones - Miles & Charlotte. These appear to be just Jacob-lite life, i.e. no touches by him to alter or direct their paths, yet the main players are meeting up.
An intriguing battle touched upon - why does Jim Robinson want to get rid of notlocke? He wants the island as far as we know, but we still keep getting told notlocke just wants off. The whole Jack / Hurley / Lighthouse / candidate thing suggested Jacob wanted Jim to make it to the island, but did he want it because he'd kill notlocke? Does that help Jacob? or does getting rid of notlocke identify the candidate final choice?
Bit of a smile from Freckles to Sawyer, too, so she's happier again after their meeting earlier in the season near the house.
Why was the final line treated as the episode's finale / cliffhanger??? Seems logical enough :shrug:
KennyVader
17-03-2010, 02:32
I dunno, seemed a bit of a tedious one to me.
Nice to see Charlotte again though. I knew Rebecca Mader was coming back at some point this season but didn't expect it to be in Sawyer's bed :D. Bit puzzled as to why she actually seemed to be hunting for Sawyer's book though ... did Miles arrange the date expressly to get her in there to look for it for him?
Zombie Sayid being all weird and then just calmly watching Krazy Klaire attacking Kate :eek:
I liked the shot of the WidmOthers building a portable version of the sonic fence.
Dunno what makes Sawyer think he's got any better chance of piloting the sub away than he has of flying the plane! Doubt it's as simple as just driving a car away :?:
scoobyood
17-03-2010, 03:50
Okay episode. Felt very short.
I think it's pretty obvious now that the alt-timeline is just one in which is Jacob hasn't been around to mess with people's lives.... so is this to merely show us his influence? Will it be dropped at some point when find out how the island sunk... I think it might be. Next week is Richard so there's most certainly not going to another standard alt story.
Now the 3 groups are set. We are almost halfway. Darlton need to change up a gear.
scoobyood
17-03-2010, 04:17
An intriguing battle touched upon - why does Jim Robinson want to get rid of notlocke? He wants the island as far as we know, but we still keep getting told notlocke just wants off. The whole Jack / Hurley / Lighthouse / candidate thing suggested Jacob wanted Jim to make it to the island, but did he want it because he'd kill notlocke? Does that help Jacob? or does getting rid of notlocke identify the candidate final choice?
I don't think they can or want to kill notlocke. Jim just smiled when Sawyer said that.. and notlocke himself didn't reply when Sawyer said the same back to him. He's trapped there for a reason... and he's a smoke monster, I don't think the world needs him running around. Then again Jacob seems to have gone around wrecking lives... maybe Notlocke is the good guy. He hasn't lied to anyone that we've seen. :shrug: Lately anyway.
Non the less, good or evil, he's clearly powerful and Jacob could control and contain him with some secret sauce that Widmore might have knowledge of. So I am going to guess Widmore would like to keep smokie around for himself.
PLUS! .. if the dickless head teacher from last week* taught us anything, it's that you don't shut down the protection grid on a containment unit the size of that island... that's a big twinky!
*Yes that man has no dick
Off island stuff is so dull, but the on island stuff is stellar. It's like season 3 again.
Dunno what makes Sawyer think he's got any better chance of piloting the sub away than he has of flying the plane! Doubt it's as simple as just driving a car away :?:
There's a good chance there's someone in mini New Otherton who brought the sub to the island. Sawyer's plan probably involves coercing them, which is a lot easier than finding Lapidus and getting the plane flyable.
enemy2pc
17-03-2010, 11:48
So maybe Notlocke is the escence of the Island, the thing that makes it so special but he's a prisoner, or maybe the Island exists solely to contain him. Either way that could explain the Island being sunk in the Alt timeline, a consequence of NotLocke leaving/escaping.
Great ep this week, I'm loving Lockes honesty, none of this "i'll tell you later" ******** we've been fed for 5 years:D
Pretty rubbish ep all round! Guessed that Sawyers blind-date was going to be Charlotte (who works with Dr Chang?) and the fugitive was going to be Kate. Nice to see Charlies brother too.
The miles/Sawyer cop show was cool, but someone should tell Miles that "partner" just means two blokes who work together, not the other meaning..
I presume the first woman Sawyer sleeps with was Jodi lyn O'keefe, wasn't that the bad one in Prison Break?
Nice to see Tina Fey in the show too :D
I think it's pretty obvious now that the alt-timeline is just one in which is Jacob hasn't been around to mess with people's lives.... so is this to merely show us his influence?
WTF? This is what I hate about reading these threads. It's like people come up with a theory, decide it's a cast-iron certainty, then start talking as if that were the case. If you're going to do that scooby, at least tell us your theory about Jacob touching people
AFAIK the alt-timeline is just what would have happened if the island sunk in 1977, or whenever the bomb went off.
Delta Kneebone
17-03-2010, 12:31
Worst episode ever.
scoobyood
17-03-2010, 12:44
WTF? This is what I hate about reading these threads. It's like people come up with a theory, decide it's a cast-iron certainty, then start talking as if that were the case. If you're going to do that scooby, at least tell us your theory about Jacob touching people
AFAIK the alt-timeline is just what would have happened if the island sunk in 1977, or whenever the bomb went off.
Yes I do tend to do that, I try to be a decisive as possible, because people don't like/pick apart the ambiguity. But I'll try and stop with the fact statements.
The reason I said was because of something Sawyer said. Paraphrasing "there was point in my life that I could have decided to become a criminal or a cop" Well that point was at the funeral of his parents... Jacob spoke to him at that funeral in the normal timeline. So, with no island, there's no Jacob.. his influence is what is missing in the world so that's why all the Losties lives are different.
Yes I do tend to do that, I try to be a decisive as possible, because people don't like/pick apart the ambiguity. But I'll try and stop with the fact statements.
The reason I said was because of something Sawyer said. Paraphrasing "there was point in my life that I could have decided to become a criminal or a cop" Well that point was at the funeral of his parents... Jacob spoke to him at that funeral in the normal timeline. So, with no island, there's no Jacob.. his influence is what is missing in the world so that's why all the Losties lives are different.
The decision Sawyer made at the funeral was to kill Anthony Cooper, something he intended to do in both timelines.
WTF? This is what I hate about reading these threads. It's like people come up with a theory, decide it's a cast-iron certainty, then start talking as if that were the case. If you're going to do that scooby, at least tell us your theory about Jacob touching people
AFAIK the alt-timeline is just what would have happened if the island sunk in 1977, or whenever the bomb went off.
It's no worse than people in the last episode thread desperately trying to find meaning in an old looking laptop...
Luckily that can all be put to bed due to the fact that in the police department they all had flat screens, and in fact Sawyer was using Office 2007 (obviously just a blooper and not something to be read in to any further).
Matt_Bro14
17-03-2010, 17:34
I thought that the person running away from the cops at the end was going to be Anna Lucia, purley because of the line Sawyer said about how he ended up at a point in his life where he would have to be the cop or the criminal and chose cop (as opposed to normal timeline where he was a con man). So I thought they were leading us down a 'Anna Lucia chose cop in original timeline so is criminal now' kinda thing.
Obviously thought too much into it, of course it was going to be Kate!
GAmbrose
17-03-2010, 19:10
Is it me or did nothing really happen in this episode? Smoke monster has a crazy mum, big whoop.
DrVenkman
17-03-2010, 19:56
Lots of stuff happened, a scene by its very nature is something 'happening', it just depends if you like it or not.
Outside of Josh Holloway's always excellent job as Sawyer, I quite liked Kate this week. When you consider exactly what she's been through when she decided to come back to the Island, and to have that reason turn out to be crazy you're bound to have a breakdown, and for once Evangeline Lilly played it just right.
There's a really interesting theory from one of the co-creators of 'Parks and Recreation' which I'll just post below.
I think the alt-present scenes are an attempt to show what each character's true nature is, absent any situation where the island draws them more towards either Smokey or Jacob. This didn't occur to me until last night, but it felt like they were saying: Ben is an intellectual guy, searching for meaning in his life, frustrated by powerlessness, and thus capable of Machiavellian manipulations. But inherently, when push comes to shove, he is decent. Which is why in the island-reality he chose, at that crucial moment, to steer away from Smokey and back to Jacob. Sayid, on the other hand, has something inherently violent and evil in him, which is why in the alt-present he killed those guys, and on the island gave himself over to Smokey. Jack is deeply conflicted about his father and has it in him to be angry and conflicted, but in the alt-present he is inherently interested in being a good father himself and breaking the cycle of emotional abuse, so in the island-reality he's on Team Jacob, and so forth.
[...]
I think they are "influencing" what is happening on the island only inasmuch as they show us what these people truly are, in the truest existential sense -- their actual natures are at play in the alt-futures, and those "teetering-between-good-and-evil" natures, I guess you could say, are what Jacob "saw," somehow, and they are what led him to determine that they are "candidates." That moment where Smokey picked up the white rock off the scale and tossed it out the door is more fuel for this theory -- they pick people who are perfectly balanced between "bad" and "good" and bring them to the island as a sort of laboratory to determine which of those forces wins out in the end. So the events that are occurring in the island-present -- the Lost version of "The Stand," where sides are being drawn -- are the "result" (though not really, obviously, in the causal sense) of the alt-futures, wherein we are seeing that left to their own devices, each of these people tilts slightly to one side of the good/evil equation.
The only thing with that is that Lindelof and Cuse have insisted that the sideways flashes are not the part of some 'what if?' scenario. But hey, they've lied before.
Delta Kneebone
17-03-2010, 20:21
For an episode of Lost it was all too predictable. You knew Sawyer was an undercover cop, you knew the woman on the island was one of Widmore's and you knew Sawyer knew she was lying. You knew Sawyer's blind date was going to be Charlotte and how it would turn out. You knew it was Kate they were chasing. You knew Sawyer was going to tell Flock about the deal he'd done with Widmore.
(When I use "you knew" I mean "I guessed" and it appears as though the majority of people did.)
When you can second guess it so easily something's wrong.
On the plus side Charlotte scrubed up well.:)
I still hope to see either Ana Lucia or Libby in their underwear, preferably both on the same bed.:wave:
You knew Sawyer was an undercover cop,
You knew Sawyer's blind date was going to be Charlotte and how it would turn out.
(When I use "you knew" I mean "I guessed" and it appears as though the majority of people did.)
When you can second guess it so easily something's wrong.
I didn't "know" / "guess" either of these. How could you guess it was Charlotte until you saw the red hair unless you knew she was in the episode already? Personally I thought it was a nice little detour. Plus, Sawyer being a cop is fab.
On the basis of this episode it makes me even sadder that Josh Holloway isn't Jim Rockford in The Rockford Files redux, he would've been perfect.
DrVenkman
17-03-2010, 20:46
For an episode of Lost it was all too predictable. You knew Sawyer was an undercover cop, you knew the woman on the island was one of Widmore's and you knew Sawyer knew she was lying. You knew Sawyer's blind date was going to be Charlotte and how it would turn out. You knew it was Kate they were chasing. You knew Sawyer was going to tell Flock about the deal he'd done with Widmore.
(When I use "you knew" I mean "I guessed" and it appears as though the majority of people did.)
When you can second guess it so easily something's wrong.
On the plus side Charlotte scrubed up well.:)
I still hope to see either Ana Lucia or Libby in their underwear, preferably both on the same bed.:wave:
Ha ha, good job on guessing Sawyer was an undercover cop seeing as it's revealed in the same scene. It's not like they save it for the end.
TV must be a wild place for if literally everything you watch, every action, scene and consequence is literally unpredictable. Who cares if you knew the woman was lying? It isn't the point of that scene, it's all about getting Sawyer to Widmore. The point of Sawyer telling Locke everything is more about Locke testing Sawyer than anything else.
Believe it or not TV's nature is not to surprise you at every turn, it's to tell a story, who cares if you've 'guessed' what happens?
When you can second guess it so easily something's wrong.
Not really. Stories don't need to constantly defy a viewer's expectations just to be shocking and the fact that so many of plotpoints were so obvious to you just shows that the story is developing on a natural path.
I'm sure there are plenty of unexpected plot twists on the way, but sometimes the writers just need to go with the flow and let the story progress naturally before they can reach them.
scoobyood
17-03-2010, 21:10
For an episode of Lost it was all too predictable. You knew Sawyer was an undercover cop, you knew the woman on the island was one of Widmore's and you knew Sawyer knew she was lying. You knew Sawyer's blind date was going to be Charlotte and how it would turn out. You knew it was Kate they were chasing. You knew Sawyer was going to tell Flock about the deal he'd done with Widmore.
(When I use "you knew" I mean "I guessed" and it appears as though the majority of people did.)
When you can second guess it so easily something's wrong.
Alan Dale's and Rebecca Mader's names was in the credits.. and we saw Widmore turn up last week. As for Sawyer, he had no reason to lie to either Widmore or notlocke.. plus Notlocke is a frickin smoke monster who had admitted to sawyer moments before that he killed everyone in the Temple, he's not some one you needlessly **** off while everyone is still holding their cards.
But I didn't think about or dwell on any of that while watching. And I didn't twig sawyer was a cop, why would you bother within the minute or so that scene ran for? :suspect: I was too busy looking at that naked woman :lol:
I like to watch the show. There's no need to try and break it by second guessing it all, as it's happened. There was nothing wrong with it, it just wasn't action orientated. Watching this season back when we know the end will hopefully make a world of difference on what's happening with the alt-timeline.
Delta Kneebone
17-03-2010, 21:43
Ha ha, good job on guessing Sawyer was an undercover cop seeing as it's revealed in the same scene. It's not like they save it for the end.
TV must be a wild place for if literally everything you watch, every action, scene and consequence is literally unpredictable. Who cares if you knew the woman was lying? It isn't the point of that scene, it's all about getting Sawyer to Widmore. The point of Sawyer telling Locke everything is more about Locke testing Sawyer than anything else.
Believe it or not TV's nature is not to surprise you at every turn, it's to tell a story, who cares if you've 'guessed' what happens?
Well you obviously cared enough to write that pointless load of drivel.:)
^^^ ooh, 'ark at 'er! ^^^
I didn't "know" / "guess" either of these. How could you guess it was Charlotte until you saw the red hair unless you knew she was in the episode already? Personally I thought it was a nice little detour. Plus, Sawyer being a cop is fab.
Didn't guess either (either). Also briefly thought it was going to be Juliette who had dyed her hair red instead of Charlotte. In fact, they could have ended the ep at the opening http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/8238/emotlost.gif after Miles comes in and hands <s>Sawyer</s> Detective Ford his badge and I would have been happy as Larry. All the other stuff was a bonus.
This now explains why Detective Ford lets the girl hiding the handcuffs just walk away at the airport he didn't want anyone to know he'd been over to Australia on a 'Inigo Montoya' crusade.
Also Widmore now has all the makings of a classic Bond villian. :D
Reverend Scapegoat
17-03-2010, 22:41
Anyone else have a vague suspicion that Aaron might in fact be Notlocke?
scoobyood
17-03-2010, 22:53
Yeah, that would be cool... but who would that make Jacob?
8 episodes left to tie everything up and give us all the answers we were promised. Can't see it happeinng to be honest. Watching out of loaylty to the show now really.
Anyone else have a vague suspicion that Aaron might in fact be Notlocke?
I had thought that when NotLocke mentioned he had a crazy mum and that Aaron now also has a crazy mum. Don't think it will be though, or at least hope not - I think the show is done with all its time travel now.
Okay episode. Felt very short.
I think it's pretty obvious now that the alt-timeline is just one in which is Jacob hasn't been around to mess with people's lives....
My point exactly :)
...These appear to be just Jacob-lite life, i.e. no touches by him to alter or direct their paths, yet the main players are meeting up...
KennyVader
18-03-2010, 00:20
I notice they didn't bother to explain how Sawyer got out of that cave since he broke the ladder on the way down to it!
I think people are missing the obvious again. Crazy mum I assumed refered to Locke's crazy mum. Somehow notLocke IS Locke AND the Man In Black, and that was the Locke part of him talking, or at least Locke's memories. That was my interpretation
So, with no island, there's no Jacob.. his influence is what is missing in the world so that's why all the Losties lives are different.
But there is an island (and Jacob) in 1977 and if the island sinks Jacob might be able to leave. Don't know what year he went to Sawyers dad's funeral though.
enemy2pc
18-03-2010, 06:55
I don't think Notlocke meant Claire was his mother, he did say something along the lines of "along time ago, before i looked like this i had a crazy mother".
DrVenkman
18-03-2010, 06:57
Well you obviously cared enough to write that pointless load of drivel.:)
Yeah but was it predictable or not?
Sammy709Sony930
18-03-2010, 08:41
I notice they didn't bother to explain how Sawyer got out of that cave since he broke the ladder on the way down to it!
I pointed that out at the time that Sawyer was stranded down there. Bit crap really that he's all of a sudden out,
Delta Kneebone
18-03-2010, 09:05
Yeah but was it predictable or not?
Was what predictable? The episode or your post being drivel? The former yes it was, the latter no because I haven't frequented this forum enough to have read enough of your previous posts to make any prior assumptions.:)
Anyway enough of this merry banter.
It was quite interesting that Sawyer used the code word "LeFleur" as the signal for his police colleagues to enter the room. Assuming the timeline split at the "Incident" in 1977 and Miles and his father escaped the Island it's possible that Miles father could have told Miles all about meeting him as a grown up and could recognise Sawyer as LeFleur. When Sawyer caught Kate there seemed to be a glimmer of recognition - possibly from the plane but it could also be that Miles father has a photograph of the Dharma Initiative and Sawyer has seen himself and Kate in it.
There you go, daft theories are not the exclusive property of the white man.:)
When Sawyer caught Kate there seemed to be a glimmer of recognition - possibly from the plane but it could also be that Miles father has a photograph of the Dharma Initiative and Sawyer has seen himself and Kate in it.
There you go, daft theories are not the exclusive property of the white man.:)
Sawyer recognises Kate from the Airport when he helped her get past the security guards in the lift.
Barnacle
18-03-2010, 10:13
I thought the blind date would have been Juliet until Miles said it was woman is a red head. I really enjoyed this episode even the flash sideways bits, I did think Krazy Klaires hair looked a bit wig like though.
BTW is the person who conned Sawyers mum John Locke's father ?
Any ideas on who/what was behind the double-padlocked door on the sub?
Aaron? ..... Desmond? ..... Walt?
Darlton
There you go, daft theories are not the exclusive property of the white man.:)
What a load of rubbish! More likely that he chose Lafleur for the same reason he did in both timelines, whatever that is.
Nice to see him watch Little house too. Didn't Kate rib him for being a fan previously?
Delta Kneebone
18-03-2010, 15:38
Darlton
What a load of rubbish! More likely that he chose Lafleur for the same reason he did in both timelines, whatever that is.
Of course it was rubbish, if you'd been following closely you might (emphasis on might) have grasped that that was the idea.:)
KennyVader
18-03-2010, 15:40
Any ideas on who/what was behind the double-padlocked door on the sub?
Aaron? ..... Desmond? ..... Walt?
It didn't look like the kind of door a person would be behind, more an object of some sort. Presumably something that Widmore can't even trust his own crew with, perhaps if someone else were to take and then use it then they would get the power over the island instead of Widmore. Or maybe it is another bomb of some sort to kick the island into time hopping again. If it is an object and not a person then obviously the timing of it's use is important otherwise Widdy would have whipped it out already. Maybe it's the journal and when reunited with the island or the Black Rock ship, whoever is holding it at the time will turn into a pillar of white smoke and be able to do battle with UnLocke :D
Another interesting thing, given all the time he's spent away and then searching for the island. Looked like Widdy was staying firmly below decks on his sub and sending his minions out for him. You would think he would have decamped to his precious island, kissed the sand, and set about supervising the construction of the Sonic Superfence Lite directly. Seems like he maybe can't set foot on the island (not even the Hydra Island) until his banishment is ended (by UnLocke leaving or being destroyed). Also wondering what he's going to make of Ben and his changeable sides, if you think back to the conversation that Ben and Widmore had in his bedroom a few seasons ago, about the rules and all that.
I still wonder, if he was able to just rock up in the sub and even dock it at Hydra Wharf, why didn't he just do that in the first place, rather than send the freighter and Keamy etc. Was the whole freighter business just a way to pad out a season, and like the Dharma food drops, it's never going to be rementioned (other than Alt-Keamy cooking his last meal of eggs the other week).
Maybe somebody on Ajira 316 was a Widmore stooge (Sun? Somebody following one of the Oceanic 6?) and was able to transmit the Island's current coordinates to him.
Maybe somebody on Ajira 316 was a Widmore stooge (Sun? Somebody following one of the Oceanic 6?) and was able to transmit the Island's current coordinates to him.
Possible, we saw them meet in london and something must have come from that. We know she wanted Jin back but once she'd arrived at the island surely she didn't need Widmore any more? Perhaps he sat her down and told her everything about the island from start to finish and she realised that it was the best thing for everyone that he came and took over?
William Shatners Wig
18-03-2010, 17:20
I guess that the English guy who stops Sawyer in the Police Station was looking for Charlie (his brother)?
robzinski
18-03-2010, 17:53
I guess that the English guy who stops Sawyer in the Police Station was looking for Charlie (his brother)?
Yeah, it was Charlie's brother Liam.
My thoughts on Widmore staying in the sealed sub was that he didn't want to get out until the fence was up to keep him safe from Notlocke?
AndyWilson
18-03-2010, 18:59
It's certainly looking like notLocke is some kind of Bonapartesque exile on an Elbaesque prison island with Jacob, helped by the Others, as his gaoler
I do hope they manage to wrap it all up with some kind of internal logic without too much BSG mysticism
GAmbrose
18-03-2010, 19:35
Say that again? two esques in one reply my make head dizzy.
William Shatners Wig
18-03-2010, 20:30
I still think the creators' will stick to their words and everything will be able to be explained scientifically. No magic, monsters, gods, ghosts or myths. The only thing I'm not sure about is 'ol smokey and his ability to change forms.
Xenomorph
18-03-2010, 20:44
I still think the creators' will stick to their words and everything will be able to be explained scientifically. No magic, monsters, gods, ghosts or myths. The only thing I'm not sure about is 'ol smokey and his ability to change forms.
No chance.
No way, whats with all the Egyptian symbolosm, time travel, smoke "monsters", alternate realities and many other paranormal activities that defy current or even speculative rationalisation? :lol:
William Shatners Wig
18-03-2010, 21:18
Egyption symbolism could be just that. The time travel and alternate realities can be explained scientifically; and like I said, not sure about the Smoke "Monster".
Swinging pendulums indicating the location of an Island the has the ability to teleport.
Walts imagination summoning birds and polar bears.
A magic room that can make anything you want appear.
People (RA) living for hundreds of years.
Number sequences (mapped to heiroglyphs) having the ability to stop a huge enrgy release
About the only things in Lost that can be explained scientifically are the planes, boats and the sub :lol:
Alastair
18-03-2010, 22:00
Darlton
What a load of rubbish! More likely that he chose Lafleur for the same reason he did in both timelines, whatever that is.
Nice to see him watch Little house too. Didn't Kate rib him for being a fan previously?
Sawyer was watching 'Highway to Heaven' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_to_Heaven
Sawyer was watching 'Highway to Heaven' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_to_Heaven
:lol:
Are you kidding? Just because Michael Landon was in it doesn't make it Highway to Heaven. Melissa Gilbert, who was also in the clip, played his daughter in Little House On the Prairie.
sleepy67
18-03-2010, 23:05
Egyption symbolism could be just that. The time travel and alternate realities can be explained scientifically; and like I said, not sure about the Smoke "Monster".With Time Travel you allow for advanced technology and as a great man once wrote, that's indistinguishable from magic to us primitives.
A magic room that can make anything you want appear.That was almost certainly a joke reference by Ben. Not a real magic room.
sleepy67
18-03-2010, 23:09
So maybe Notlocke is the escence of the Island, the thing that makes it so special but he's a prisoner, or maybe the Island exists solely to contain him.There was that scene with the little boy, a few epiosdes ago, who knew Not!Locke and mentioned the rules to him. If the Island has an essence I think the kid is a better candidate than Not!Locke.
KennyVader
19-03-2010, 00:44
Ooh, next week's Richard-centric episode is six minutes longer than normal. Hope that means they filmed too many answer scenes and just couldn't edit it down enough :D
Bit of an "I've seen things ... C-Beams ... Tannhauser Gate" style exposition moment, judging from the trailer too :D
Six minutes, cool, that's like half an hour in US telly time! :D
:lol:
Are you kidding? Just because Michael Landon was in it doesn't make it Highway to Heaven.
Well he was in both. I'm interested to hear why Alistair thinks it's HtH and not LHOTP though.
Alastair
19-03-2010, 06:52
Well he was in both. I'm interested to hear why Alistair thinks it's HtH and not LHOTP though.
Given the premise of HtH.. and the parallels with Jacob 'touching' people. Im sure it has some significance. Maybe it was LHOTP although HtH fits better
Bapapapa
19-03-2010, 07:05
Was definitely LHotP..
As statto pointed out, Melissa Gilbert was shown in the clip as a little kid - if it was HtH she would have been like 80..! :D
Not to mention the fact in HtH he had much bigger hair.. :lol:
splobber
19-03-2010, 07:10
Given the premise of HtH.. and the parallels with Jacob 'touching' people. Im sure it has some significance. Maybe it was LHOTP although HtH fits better
In that case, it should have been Pee-Wee Herman's Big Adventure, no?
Me and the other half instantly recognised it as Little House on the Prairie.
Am I the only person less than impressed with this season? I thought this was a poor episode personally.
GAmbrose
19-03-2010, 08:13
I've been a Lost defender/apologist since...forever, but there's been a lot of dissapointing episodes thus far.
Dr. Linus was probably the standout.
LIGHTRAY
19-03-2010, 09:40
Am I the only person less than impressed with this season? I thought this was a poor episode personally.
I'm finding this series the same so far. It's had it's moments, but generally it's a bit disappointing, especially in comparison to last season.
loujareth
19-03-2010, 10:04
Am I the only person less than impressed with this season? I thought this was a poor episode personally.
No your not the only one, it doesn't seem like the same programme, has a different feel. The episode everyone on here was raving over 'Sundown' I actually fell asleep watching, something I never do while watching tv.
I'll stick with it to the end as I've watched it this far but it's mightily disappointing.
Alastair
19-03-2010, 10:54
Was definitely LHotP..
As statto pointed out, Melissa Gilbert was shown in the clip as a little kid - if it was HtH she would have been like 80..! :D
Not to mention the fact in HtH he had much bigger hair.. :lol:
Any possible significance of LHoTP? There normally is with books etc
GAmbrose
19-03-2010, 11:00
Any possible significance of LHoTP? There normally is with books etc
Only that Sawyer told Kate he used to watch it...plus that scene related to the death of parents which obviously has meaning to his situation.
fuzzylogic
19-03-2010, 17:24
Am I the only person less than impressed with this season? I thought this was a poor episode personally.
I really want to be loving it, but am not enjoying it as much as previous seasons, the flash sideways (although I know it will be explained later and have more meaning) often feels like filler in the episode. When you knew it was a flashback/flashforward you'd look out for things, now its just like playing spot the characters from before.
Shingster
19-03-2010, 19:19
Dunno what makes Sawyer think he's got any better chance of piloting the sub away than he has of flying the plane! Doubt it's as simple as just driving a car away :?:He was chief of Island Security for DHARMA for three years, they had a submarine called the Galaga so I'm willing to bet that either Sawyer or Jin/Miles may have learnt a thing or two about piloting a sub.
ceiberman
19-03-2010, 23:34
Only that Sawyer told Kate he used to watch it...plus that scene related to the death of parents which obviously has meaning to his situation.
That's right....wasn't there a comment in one of the early series about either Kate or Sawyer referring to the show just as 'Little House'?
That's right....wasn't there a comment in one of the early series about either Kate or Sawyer referring to the show just as 'Little House'?
That's the what Mr Ambrose was refering to. I think Sawyer said "I used to watch little house" and kate says "Little house???". Sawyer was sick or something and watched it in bed
I don't think they can or want to kill notlocke. Jim just smiled when Sawyer said that.. and notlocke himself didn't reply when Sawyer said the same back to him. He's trapped there for a reason... and he's a smoke monster, I don't think the world needs him running around. Then again Jacob seems to have gone around wrecking lives... maybe Notlocke is the good guy. He hasn't lied to anyone that we've seen. :shrug: Lately anyway.
Er...
I'm pretty sure he told Claire that the others had her baby...
scoobyood
20-03-2010, 09:56
Er...
I'm pretty sure he told Claire that the others had her baby...
But that was before Jacob was killed. notlocke was definitely under Jacob's control to a certain extent before then. All we've seen since, aside from a slap :lol:, he's been quite protective of Claire. :shrug: He probably is the evil manipulative one but there is still room for a twist where Jacob is.. that's all I was thinking there.
DrVenkman
20-03-2010, 09:59
Which to be fair has been his only lie that we've seen. The show seems to make a point of the Lockeness monster being fairly honest with people.
As for the Sub, it's far easier to grab one of Widmore's men to pilot the sub than try to find the pilot for the plane (Seeing as Sawyer presumably thinks the pilot is dead - does he even know who Frank is?).
Also, in "not quite a plot hole" news. It was only on second viewing did I realise that Charlotte looks in the wrong drawer. Sawyer tells her to look in the drawer on the right, but she gets distracted by his books and just opens the first drawer she sees, which is on the left. She isn't routing through the drawer for the file, just a T-Shirt.
I only noticed because I thought it was stupid that Sawyer would tell her to look in a drawer he knew had the file in there.
Which to be fair has been his only lie that we've seen. The show seems to make a point of the Lockeness monster being fairly honest with people.
That's an interesting way to view it, because he's been incredibly deceitful with a lot of people. A prime example in this episode was his answer to the "what happened to the people who stayed at the temple" question. While he was technically truthful (the smoke monster killed them), the inference was that he'd attempted to warn them to protect them, while really he is the smoke monster, and "I killed them" would have been a much more honest answer.
We're also assuming much of what he's said is truthful simply because it hasn't been contradicted yet. He hasn't answered any of the important questions (i.e. Why is he a prisoner on the island?).
Let's put it this way - if I had Jacob telling me one thing and NotLocke telling me the opposite I'd be more inclined to believe Jacob.
sleepy67
20-03-2010, 13:02
It is a very devilish thing to do: lie yet telling the truth.
!Locke manipulated Locke to the point where he tried to commit suicide and was murdered, killed the pilot, Eko, Nadine, tore off Montand's arm, coerced Ben into killing Jacob, lied to Sun about finding her husband, slaughtered a bunch of people in the Temple, slapped Claire...
Such a nice guy.
I can't believe people are suggesting he's not a liar. He pretended to be Locke for half a season :lol:
Shingster
20-03-2010, 13:49
Have people forgotten about NotLocke's manipulation of Ben to kill Jacob? He pretended to be John Locke and was lying to the whole group for quite a while back then!
That would have been the only way to "kill" Jacob so he had no choice.
Why are so many of us NotLocke apologists :lol:
scoobyood
20-03-2010, 14:01
I can't believe people are suggesting he's not a liar. He pretended to be Locke for half a season :lol:
No one is saying they believe anything. I just said there is room for a twist. For all we know all the actions of smoky (not him as ghosts) pre jacob's death were commanded by Jacob. The smoke monster lived in the temple walls so he clearly couldn't touch or hurt anyone before Jacob was dead. Otherwise he would have gone around massacring others and dharma folk. As I said, notlocke probably is the evil one.... but we don't know yet do we. If Jacob brought the pilot, Eko, Nadine and everyone else on the plane to the island in the first place... and he knows the future, which he does seem to, then he brought them to their death by notlocke in the first place. Just so he could get his candidates.. so who's in the wrong.
Have people forgotten about NotLocke's manipulation of Ben to kill Jacob?
I think NotLocke's been manipulating Ben for a lot longer than that TBH. Remember how shocked Ben was that Locke heard Jacob's voice in the cabin? Ben had never heard it. Ben didn't have his medical condition miraculously cured like Locke did. The only reason Ben was followed was because of Jacob's 'lists', which we now know that NotLocke had access to.
My guess is that Ben was initially a candidate when he came to the island, but that he was deceived in some way by MiB a long time ago, so that he thought he was doing Jacob's bidding, when really he was doing MiB's. Maybe at some point he even became aware that something wasn't right (hence his shooting Locke when Locke appeared to have a connection with Jacob).
IIRC, when Ben spoke to Jacob at the end of last season, Jacob acted like him and Ben hardly knew each other, though obviously he knew who he was.
MaxNutter
20-03-2010, 15:13
i got the impression that !Locke and Jacob were on somewhat of an even footing, so I don't believe that !Locke has been smokeying around the island, killing people that Jacob wanted dead; he's been killing who he can and when he can...
Just thinking about this, hasn't there been instances when the black smoke approached people but didn't kill them - I have a vague recollection of it studying someone close up but then leaving them be (it might have been Locke). It would be interesting to work out who he chose to leave alone.
Either way you look at it, it appears as if Jacob and MIB are both manipulating people but the obvious question is to what end.
And was there any significance to the Watership Down book?
DrVenkman: Sawyer jumped from the helicopter that Frank was flying when Jack and co got off the island. He doesn't know he is on the island, though, I don't think.
Locke came fae to face with something early in the first season which was likely the smoke monster. Eko was definitely scanned by it later on. I imagine that it scanned both of them, looking for its own candidate to be part of its plot to murder Ben, and decided they were both suitable. Then when Eko refused to confess to him, the smoke realised it wouldn't be able to manipulate him and killed him instead. It'd certainly explain Eko's last words to John.
MaxNutter
20-03-2010, 20:12
didn't it drag john off through the jungle, presumably to kill him?
didn't it drag john off through the jungle, presumably to kill him?
If it wanted to kill him it would have done it there and then like it has with its others victims.
didn't it drag john off through the jungle, presumably to kill him?
It tried to drag Locke into a hole but Jack grabbed hold of Locke. Kate then lobbed a stick of dynamite down the hole and the smoke monster resurfaced and scarpered. Not sure if that was the only close encounter Locke had though.
It studied Eko in one scene - right close up to his face. Eko said nothing, then the Smoke quitely withdrew.
scoobyood
21-03-2010, 08:41
It studied Eko in one scene - right close up to his face. Eko said nothing, then the Smoke quitely withdrew.
Then it MIB came to him as the ghost of Yemi. Later on Eko worked out that the ghost wasn't really Yemi at which point Yemi's face dropped, he walked off and smoky immediately came back to kill him... his final words. "I saw the Devil" and "You're next".
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