When are 'Fast Payments' not fast?

[farmroad38]

Received my Amazon credit card statement today, and I've been charged a late payment fee. I checked, and I did pay it on the due date, but it turns out I've fallen into a neat little trap.

The payment due date was a Saturday, and not all banks that are signed up to the Fast Payments system treat weekends the same way. So, First Direct, where the payment came from, sent the money on Saturday, and told me that it would arrive same day. Bank of America, where the payment was going, received the funds but didn't credit them to my account until the Monday.

Now both of them are denying any responsibility, because their terms and conditions cover them completely.

I know a lot of people here signed up to the Amazon card - so watch those payment dates!

[jpig]

As far as I understand it, payments may well be sent on Saturday, but they won't clear until the bank runs clearing on the next working day. Even with faster payments, this means weekend payments all clear Monday, and payments sent not by faster payments would clear Tuesday / Wednesday.

[farmroad38]

Not according to First Direct - if they receive a Fast Payment at the weekend, it is processed immediately. I did think it didn't include non-business days, but they assured me that wasn't the case.

[lsba02853]

Faster payments is available 24x7 for uk banks, however it's designed only personal banking and NOT credit card payments.

If you send a Faster payment between two individuals it'll clear within 2hrs. Credit cards are a whole different kettle of fish i'm afraid.

Ok, after a bit of research it would seem that the Bank issuing the credit card must make it part of the Faster Payments scheme in order for payments to be allocated once received. Sounds like BofA haven't done that.

[farmroad38]

What really got me is that the payment has gone through same day every other time I've made it, but this was the first time it fell on a non-business day.

Personally, I don't give a stuff whether it does or doesn't go through same day, but because I wasn't aware of the issue, I've ended up 12 quid out of pocket, and with a late payment on my credit report.

[lsba02853]

Are BofA not willing for confirm that they received it on the due date?

[farmroad38]

No, as far as they are concerned, payment was received on the next Monday.

To be fair, they did refund the interest I had been charged, plus in theory I should have lost the 0% promo rate, but they've maintained it.

I guess I shouldn't be such a tightwad and should make payment sometime before the absolute last date possible! Sure enough, I won't make the same mistake again, and hopefully others won't be caught out the same way.

[lsba02853]

If you really wanted to kick up a fuss you could get the confirmation that they sent to FirstDirect to show it was received.
When Faster Payments are made, there is an almost real time message sent by the receiving bank to confirm it's been received.

Still as long as you're happy with the outcome.

[B0zza]

Did your credit card bill have a 'due by date' of Saturday, a non-working day?

[farmroad38]

Did your credit card bill have a 'due by date' of Saturday, a non-working day?

Yes, but that's fairly normal I'd say.

That's also what foxed me a little - usually, if you try to put in a non-working day when you enter a payment on the First Direct website, it tells you it can't be done and alters it to the previous business day.

[lsba02853]

That must have been before Faster Payments.
As I said, it's available 24/7 for all banks that participate, but some banks have stated that their Credit Cards aren't yet participating.

When I pay my RBS card from Natwest, online banking, it tells me that the payment has been received but they can't confirm it will be credited to the account on the same day. Usually it is but they like to cover their arses.

[ben.bayliss]

It's standard. BoA will have received it on Saturday just like you claim, but they only allocate funds to card accounts on working days. It'll be plainly laid out in your T&Cs and whilst I sympathise if they're not going to refund the charge as a goodwill gesture then you're SOL!

B

[DjSatansfury]

Co-Op bank reckon that while it can take hours to clear, it can also take up to 3 working days even if its sent via FPS (so same as BACS then)

So they say, when I last asked about it.

[lsba02853]

Co-Op bank reckon that while it can take hours to clear, it can also take up to 3 working days even if its sent via FPS (so same as BACS then)

So they say, when I last asked about it.

They're talking utter ****.
BACS is a 3 day process I'll give them that, but Faster payments is same day.
If your bank are taking 3 days to process them then i'd complain:

http://www.chapsco.co.uk/faster_payments/-/page/343/
http://www.ukpayments.org.uk/sort_code_checker/
http://www.ukpayments.org.uk/faster_payments_service/background/

[Rawk]

I paid money from BoS to my HSBC account using faster paymen on Saturday last weekend, I pressed the final submit button on the BoS screen, and then refreshed my HSBC browser and the money was already there.

I wasn't expecting it to be quite so fast, so I was quite impressed. It's odd that I'm impressed as this is how it should work!

I wouldn't expect banks to do anything other than hide behind their T&Cs though if it can make them a few more pounds. :thumbs:

[RBZ5416]

Being a Nationwide customer I can only dream of Faster Payments.

"Proud to be different"... :razz:

[andybhoy]

I was (a small) part of the development team responsible for implementing Faster Payments where I work. We accept incoming payments from FPS enabled banks and process outgoing standing orders as faster payments (where possible - if the payment is not going to an enabled bank, it goes by bacs - so even though your current account might be FPS enabled, that matters not at all, if it's going somewhere that isn't enabled).

Some banks (Nationwide) pulled out almost entirely to concentrate on other priorities.

The main 8 players all have varying levels of service, and varying types of accounts. No one has 100% coverage and I don't believe we'll ever see 100% coverage.

Don't be surprised if it becomes a premium service at some point in the future, with BACS continuing almost as it is.

[andybhoy]

If you really wanted to kick up a fuss you could get the confirmation that they sent to FirstDirect to show it was received.
When Faster Payments are made, there is an almost real time message sent by the receiving bank to confirm it's been received.


I have the vaguest memory that you know what you're talking about in regards to FPS but the above is only true if the receiving account/bank is also fps enabled.

If I sent a faster payment from my hsbc account to my halifax account, and vice versa, I know they will be "instant" in that the money will show but it hasn't actually been processed yet.

It DOES take hours to process as there are 3 faster payment windows per working day, that are reconciled morning, afternoon, evening, That's why banks conditionally and unconditionally accept payments - if the latter, they cannot return it, if the former, they can. Plus banking systems tend to have what they show their customers (a real time view) and what is held in the background (and then processed in a batch daily), which the customer cannot see.

[Churchmouse]

Interesting insight into how Faster Payments works - or doesn't. Should be given wider publicity.