View Full Version : WC Play-Off Ireland v France. Let then eat cake! let them **** off and ...
So it's on for Saturday 85,000 (my dad got me tickets but I can't afford the flight) nutjobs will hopefully frighten the ***** out of the cheese eating surrender monkeys and Ireland will take an unassailable lead into the second leg next week. One can dream.
What do you reckon our chances are? Ireland played some dross football during the group stages but were unbeaten wherea France played frankly odd football during their group games.
To close to call for me at the moment.
I wouldn't be suprised if it went to penalties after the two legs. France to qualify
Anti-football v Reputation, I can't see it being a classic by any means but hoping for the 'home' nation to get through.
rbullivant
12-11-2009, 10:10
I'll be supporting Ireland, I imagine though that France will come through in the end.
Are there away goals?
R
StephenM
12-11-2009, 10:29
Have my ticket. Been to every match since Croke Park opened for soccer. The only good atmosphere was at the Italy game.
I am amazed that a venue of such standing cannot generate an atmosphere at home qualifiers. The rugby games have been electric, so there must be a cause.
In my opinion, it is the anti-football that we play. Give the fans something to cheer, please!!!
Neither Reid in the Ireland squad, Paul McShane getting his game - what bizarre decisions. Ireland had changes to go though top of their group, should have won away to Italy.
France to go through I reckon, an international team with the midfield paring of Andrews and Whelan would get torn apart at the finals imho.
joconnor
12-11-2009, 11:40
Are there away goals?
FIFA will probably wait until after the first leg before deciding on whether away goals will count.
Pisces Iscariot
12-11-2009, 11:46
The tie hinges on whether or not Ireland can keep a clean sheet in the home leg. Even a 0-0 would put huge pressure on France and I think a score draw is achievable away. Will be very difficult but far from impossible.
FIFA will probably wait until after the first leg before deciding on whether away goals will count.
:D
Hope Ireland win - mainly just to stuff up Platini's plans - and I think they have a damn good shot at it.
:D
Hope Ireland win - mainly just to stuff up Platini's plans - and I think they have a damn good shot at it.
Plantini's plans?
Wasn't the seeding controversy a decision made by the FIFA executive committee, which includes people other than Platini?
horseflesh
12-11-2009, 15:56
Plantini's plans?
Wasn't the seeding controversy a decision made by the FIFA executive committee, which includes people other than Platini?
Of course it was, the World Cup is a FIFA competition.
But it's easier for some people to just sneer at "garlic breath". :oh-hum:
Barnacle
12-11-2009, 16:05
This made me chuckle http://irishsoccerinsider.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/french-and-irish-fall-out-over-box-incident/
Plantini's plans?
Wasn't the seeding controversy a decision made by the FIFA executive committee, which includes people other than Platini?
Of course it was, the World Cup is a FIFA competition.
But it's easier for some people to just sneer at "garlic breath". :oh-hum:
Oops - was gonna type Blatter but then changed it at the last minute, obviously incorrectly! Either way, it was a sucky decision to seed the play offs once the qualifiers were over.
This made me chuckle http://irishsoccerinsider.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/french-and-irish-fall-out-over-box-incident/
Not bad :D
Lord of The Rants
12-11-2009, 17:05
I am amazed that a venue of such standing cannot generate an atmosphere at home qualifiers. The rugby games have been electric, so there must be a cause.
!
I think it's the size... what with Croke being a GAA venue, when marked out for football or rugby, there's a sizeable border between the pitch and the fans. IIRC the pitch is surrounded with a large path too.
Fortress Windsor in Belfast is a fairly small pitch, but fans are VERY close (unfortunately for the linesman who got clunked with a coin!)
This lends itself to a great atmosphere and very intimidating for any opposition.
This made me chuckle http://irishsoccerinsider.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/french-and-irish-fall-out-over-box-incident/
I got that emailed about 20 times today. Being the only Irish person in the company everyone felt compelled to email it to me individually.
escape_adil5
12-11-2009, 22:33
This made me chuckle http://irishsoccerinsider.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/french-and-irish-fall-out-over-box-incident/
Was just about to post that but somehow managed to spot this thread (impressive considering drunken state). I laughed my head off! :lol:
By the way, the game is live on Eurosport as well as Sky Sports.
By the way, the game is live on Eurosport as well as Sky Sports.
It's not in the listings on my epg.
And their website doesn't say it is either:
http://tv.eurosport.co.uk/
spearce8
14-11-2009, 19:50
Strange that, was watching the NZ this morning and the Comm said the Irish game would be on :shrug:
On a seperate note, what's happen to the "fourth official" and the added mins, there wasn't one in the Eng game either.
Is the Portugal game on anywhere?
Only in Ireland on Setanta.
unrealnils
14-11-2009, 20:32
Setanta Ireland (20:00-23:00 Ireland only)
Setanta Sports 1 (20:00-23:00 Ireland only)
******* setanta
Why? If Setanta bought the Ireland only rights then any UK broadcaster could have picked up the UK rights. It seems like Sky/BBC/ITV/Five etc weren't interested or maybe they thought they were too expensive.
so it's pretty much done and dusted. Ireland just don't have the quality to beat France (being able to score a goal is one of the main qualities they are missing). I expect a spirited game but the result is inevitable.
Anway we probably wont be able to watch it anyway as neither RTE nor Sky have agreed a deal with the FFA for the rights.
horseflesh
17-11-2009, 09:22
so it's pretty much done and dusted. Ireland just don't have the quality to beat France (being able to score a goal is one of the main qualities they are missing). I expect a spirited game but the result is inevitable.
Anway we probably wont be able to watch it anyway as neither RTE nor Sky have agreed a deal with the FFA for the rights.
I heard this morning that apparently RTE are going to pay 800k to show it.
But yes, there is a gloomy inevitability about it. Another 1-0 to France I reckon.
The fee was £1.8m yesterday. But if Sky don't pick it up I wont be watching it. there is an Irish pub nearby which has satelites pointing all over the world though so they might pick it up from a French feed.
I like Il Trap but he needs to change this 6 defenders attitude if they are going to break down the French.
TV3 are trying to get in on the deal now according to the IT:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/1117/1224258980947.html
campdave
17-11-2009, 12:03
The fee was £1.8m yesterday. But if Sky don't pick it up I wont be watching it.
On Sky according to a thread on digitalspy.
horseflesh
17-11-2009, 12:16
RTE will be showing it here, apparently they got it for less than €600k
It's listed in the epg for Sky sports 1 tonight.
******* ***** at Virgin have blocked RTE2, "This program is not available in your area".
Didn't block the first leg, why now :mad:
Sammy709Sony930
18-11-2009, 19:03
1-0 roi
Niceguygeoff
18-11-2009, 20:18
2ng leg in HD on Sky, but I wonder why the first leg wasn't? Ireland is closer than France, non? I guess it's down to the usual sloblock about rights, logistics, whatever.
Anyhoo, the ROI are doing their best to turn over our Gallic friends, and good luck to 'em. With that crucial away goal from Keane, [cliché]there's everything to play for[/cliché].
The Cleaner
18-11-2009, 20:21
Hope France get stuffed. Still bitter we (Scotland) beat them twice and they still qualified above us.
2ng leg in HD on Sky, but I wonder why the first leg wasn't? Ireland is closer than France, non? I guess it's down to the usual sloblock about rights, logistics, whatever.
The rugby isn't shown in HD in Ireland either, not sure if it's the same for the upcoming 6N but the last match against the Aussies was just in SD.
Radiohead
18-11-2009, 20:51
It was over here as well. Last year the 6N rugby in Wales and England was HD, the rest weren't.
Murrayfield had HD though as far as I can remember? Pretty much just the Great Britain matches in that case.
Radiohead
18-11-2009, 21:01
Sorry yes, I missed that one. The French broadcasts are usually awful.
SIMON ADEBISI
18-11-2009, 21:12
Bull ****. 2 handballs.
That was disgraceful :nuts:
Niceguygeoff
18-11-2009, 21:13
Cheating French ************.
Radiohead
18-11-2009, 21:14
My God that was so blatant. FIFA want France there.
In a nutshell - why Platini doesn't want video replays.
What a cheating ****** that Henry is... unbelievable
Radiohead
18-11-2009, 21:16
If Ireland go out to that it's terrible.
To be fair it's probably the first thing the officials have got wrong.
They've been pretty spot on so far although Anelka should have been booked for his dive.
I was pretty neutral before this game, but some of the stuff France are resorting to has me hoping Ireland can turn it round.
LouBarlow
18-11-2009, 21:17
Hmmm lets see the cock-breath Platini defend that one.
Utterly rigged in Frances favour, since the start.
If there is any justice then Ireland will get a second.
Hitman2411
18-11-2009, 21:18
******* disgraceful decision. France are a woeful team and Henry should be ashamed
scandalous, come on ireland.
Break his ********** leg if he gets there somebody ... for that is what HE deserves.
Come on ROI stick it to them.
LouBarlow
18-11-2009, 21:23
Henry's reputation up in smoke.
stallion
18-11-2009, 21:25
Cheating ****.
Praying the RoI score in the last minute.
I hate cheating in any sport and if there was any justice France will go out, Henry didn't even try and hide what he did.
WTF, dont even like football but that was woeful, surely a reply or summat, all the money in the world and football still does not have video replays like in rugby league.
Greemie666
18-11-2009, 21:35
I haven't seen it, been listening on radio 5, was the handball really as bad as people are saying?
dancleary1
18-11-2009, 21:37
Absolutely blatant Greemie.:cry:
LouBarlow
18-11-2009, 21:37
It was basketball-esque. A scandal frankly.
Stevie G
18-11-2009, 21:37
Yes. Controlled it first with a touch of the wrist, but then flicked his hand at the ball to direct is even more. Dirty bloody cheat. I've always thought Henry was one of the more honest player! :mad:
And after Anelka's Ngog-esque dive that the ref spotted (which I bet doesn't get slated in the press like Ngog!). The Irish must be gutted to have been robbed like that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjTxllNRKM4
His reputation tarnished forever now, just like Maradona.
Mandrill
18-11-2009, 21:38
Hand of Frog
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Handball was blatant but I also think the pen could quite easily have been given.
Hitman2411
18-11-2009, 21:40
I wonder what Platini's comments are going to be
studmeister
18-11-2009, 21:41
he needs to have his hands chopped off for that. that and a severe suspension!
I wonder what Platini's comments are going to be
Probably for the first time ever he will keep his mouth shut. Now if the handball had been the other way around I am sure video replays would have been introduced tomorrow :lol:
studmeister
18-11-2009, 21:42
i bet wenger didn't see it.
spearce8
18-11-2009, 21:42
Hand of Frog
Like that :D hope that sticks.
Seriously though, I used to look upto Henry during is Arsenal days as a clean decent player, now though, he's no better than all those other cheats before him :( it's not as the ball just hit is hand, he actually controlled it the second time :lol:
Art Vanderlay
18-11-2009, 21:43
Handball was blatant but I also think the pen could quite easily have been given.
Agree on both counts. A lot of referees would have given a pen there.
So unlucky with the goal, but the Irish had enough chances over the two legs to have made sure of it themselves.
French were very disappointing in both legs, I thought.
Hand of Frog
You just know that will be the headline in the tabloids tomorrow.
It is all well and good Henry playing Mr nice guy after the final whistle by sitting on the field with Dunn and then hugging him because by then the deed had already been done. It just goes to show that if you want to get anywhere in football then just cheat as the authorities don't want to do anything about it to stamp this kind of thing out. Had the 4th official been allow to it would have taken him a matter of seconds to tell the ref to disallow the goal for handball after viewing it on a pitch side monitor.
Art Vanderlay
18-11-2009, 21:47
I wonder what Platini's comments are going to be
They pundits on Sky were talking about the extra officials behind the goal they have in the Europa League. I would imagine Platini will use this incident to push that through to other tournaments.
horseflesh
18-11-2009, 21:49
Henry, I've always loved you as a player but tonight you were a rotten cheating *******.
******* gutted to go out like that.
They pundits on Sky were talking about the extra officials behind the goal they have in the Europa League. I would imagine Platini will use this incident to push that through to other tournaments.
I think if this is deemed to be a success in the Europa league then it will be introduced in the Champions League, and quite possibly into top flight football across Europe from what I read a while back.
Mandrill
18-11-2009, 21:50
You just know that will be the headline in the tabloids tomorrow.
It is all well and good Henry playing Mr nice guy after the final whistle by sitting on the field with Dunn and then hugging him because by then the deed had already been done. It just goes to show that if you want to get anywhere in football then just cheat as the authorities don't want to do anything about it to stamp this kind of thing out. Had the 4th official been allow to it would have taken him a matter of seconds to tell the ref to disallow the goal for handball after viewing it on a pitch side monitor.
I can't take credit for the ''Hand of Frog '' I saw it on facebook but I'm sure the Sun will use it tomorrow.
Henry has tarnished himself the same as Maradona now and looking at France they may have got to the finals but I can't see them going far they are a shaodow of the team they used to be.
Peter UK
18-11-2009, 21:56
They pundits on Sky were talking about the extra officials behind the goal they have in the Europa League. I would imagine Platini will use this incident to push that through to other tournaments.
At least both of them were telliing them how it is: Every pro player would've tried it to see if they could get away with it....
Henry: "I don't cheat. People can say whatever they want to say........ If that's basketball that's a good block, but we're not playing basketball. In my head I'm not a guy who does go down or cheats." :D
Tough on the Irish as it's a very bad way to go out but they really should've buried France by the 70th minute imo. Missed too many good chances to go through.
*******, ****, ****, ****, *******, *******, *****! Cheese eating arse *****, arsebag *******, *******, *****!!
I could have handled losing tonight, I could have handled going out on penalties but to lose to a cheating ******* **** is just ******* ***** ******* ****. ******* cock.
******* *******.
Ireland were by far the better team tonight and we don't deserve that kind of *****.
******* cheating French ******* *****.
soberion
18-11-2009, 22:18
^^ I agree with Stu.
France were a second rate team on the day and didn't deserve the result. But that's football :(
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/4849/15745105211716159934100.jpg (http://img44.imageshack.us/i/15745105211716159934100.jpg/)
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/8552/15853180540689570851319.jpg (http://img44.imageshack.us/i/15853180540689570851319.jpg/)
It was like kareem abdul jabbar pulled on the French jersey for a few seconds there.
Hitman2411
18-11-2009, 22:22
Can't see Henry visiting Ireland in the forseeable future. I'll second what Stu has said above
Yeah I was all for France going through as I'd rather see Anelka and maybe Malouda in a world cup but after that equaliser I was cheering for Ireland all the way. That's how it goes though...
The extra officials behind goals would (you would hope!) have spotted that and got it ruled out.
But I still don't believe in the use of video replays in football - tonight we saw a very, very extreme example of a bad decision (and actually it wasn't even a bad decision as the ref just missed it so didn't have a decision to make) but in probably 95% of cases even a video replay doesn't provide a definitive answer.
The extra officials behind goals would (you would hope!) have spotted that and got it ruled out.
But I still don't believe in the use of video replays in football - tonight we saw a very, very extreme example of a bad decision (and actually it wasn't even a bad decision as the ref just missed it so didn't have a decision to make) but in probably 95% of cases even a video replay doesn't provide a definitive answer.
I do. If a manager had 3 challenges as in the NFL then Trap could have challenged that particular incident and Ireland would have a chance of fairly winning, or losing, on pens. It is my belief that football is being arrogant beyond belief by ignoring video replay now.
The extra officials behind goals would (you would hope!) have spotted that and got it ruled out.
But I still don't believe in the use of video replays in football - tonight we saw a very, very extreme example of a bad decision (and actually it wasn't even a bad decision as the ref just missed it so didn't have a decision to make) but in probably 95% of cases even a video replay doesn't provide a definitive answer.
I would be of the opinion of it being the other way around.
If it's difficult to make a decision after x amount of replays why should that be worse than a referee making a split second decision which would be equally if not more impossible to accurately call. Football is faster than ever with better pitches and balls plus speedier players, the technology is there to help but they are still sticking with the fat man in black. Most dodgy calls don't really affect the outcome of the game but when they do they cost clubs money, league placings and can be the difference between winning a trophy or getting relegated/promoted.
I do. If a manager had 3 challenges as in the NFL then Trap could have challenged that particular incident and Ireland would have a chance of fairly winning, or losing, on pens. It is my belief that football is being arrogant beyond belief by ignoring video replay now.
It's a nice idea in theory I suppose but football just doesn't lend itself to that type of stopping/starting of the game. And no doubt it would soon be abused by coaches who would use up 'challenges' just to break up the play.
A potential penalty is not given, and the other team break and bring the ball upfield....out jumps a manager to ask for play to be stopped to consider the video. If the penalty is still not given even after the replay how is the game resumed in fairness to the other team?
And, as I said, how many decisions are still debated heatedly and unresolved even after Sky have show them from a multitude of angles?
Pisces Iscariot
18-11-2009, 22:46
But I still don't believe in the use of video replays in football - tonight we saw a very, very extreme example of a bad decision (and actually it wasn't even a bad decision as the ref just missed it so didn't have a decision to make) but in probably 95% of cases even a video replay doesn't provide a definitive answer.
It was either a bad decision or extreme incompetence if neither the ref or linesman were in a position to see a blatant handball. I couldn't see anyone blocking the linesman's view...
ralph wiggum
18-11-2009, 22:48
France were dreadful & have gone downhill massively in recent years, still, I'm pleased that Ireland are out however it came about.
It was either a bad decision or extreme incompetence if neither the ref or linesman were in a position to see a blatant handball. I couldn't see anyone blocking the linesman's view...
Unless they were both unsighted it was incompetence for not spotting it - I refuse to believe that either the linesman or the ref actually saw it and consciously decided that it wasn't deliberate handball.
Pisces Iscariot
18-11-2009, 22:55
Unless they were both unsighted it was incompetence for not spotting it - I refuse to believe that either the linesman or the ref actually saw it and consciously decided that it wasn't deliberate handball.
There's nobody stood between the linesman and the incident and Henry's position makes it all the more obvious. Either the linesman wasn't looking or he bottled it and left the ref to make the big decision.
There's nobody stood between the linesman and the incident and Henry's position makes it all the more obvious. Either the linesman wasn't looking or he bottled it and left the ref to make the big decision.
I wasn't trying to defend either of them! They're clearly clowns.
Was just making the point that I can't imagine either of them actually saw it and thought "no, that looks fine to me".
MaddyPaulus
18-11-2009, 23:17
I can't take credit for the ''Hand of Frog '' I saw it on facebook but I'm sure the Sun will use it tomorrow.
Their online story at the moment the sun calls it "Le hand of god" (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/2736455/France-1-Rep-of-Ireland-1.html) in the photo of Henry disgracing himself. :nono:
There's a thread on the general forums about "embarrassing yourself in public" (http://www.thedvdforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=385731), prepare to welcome our new member - Thierry! :razz:
At the end of the game he was shown sitting quietly on the pitch, looking somewhat crestfallen... probably as he'd realised how much he will be ridiculed and forever labelled a cheat. Deservedly so!
Never seen a national team robbed so badley since 1986. Lost a lot of respect for Henry today.
Can't blame the ref as he didn't see it so what can you do. The system needs a big looking into.
The match report on the FIFA website is bizarre in that it totally fails to mention the major talking point in the game.
Their only allusion to the handball is a "late stroke of luck".
Shields up and prepare to defend!
http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/newsid=1136804.html#gallas+breaks+irish+hearts
Their online story at the moment the sun calls it "Le hand of god" (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/2736455/France-1-Rep-of-Ireland-1.html) in the photo of Henry disgracing himself. :nono:
There's a thread on the general forums about "embarrassing yourself in public" (http://www.thedvdforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=385731), prepare to welcome our new member - Thierry! :razz:
At the end of the game he was shown sitting quietly on the pitch, looking somewhat crestfallen... probably as he'd realised how much he will be ridiculed and forever labelled a cheat. Deservedly so!
That Sun article is absolutely ridiculous, unsurprisingly really.
"rob the Republic of Ireland of their rightful place in the World Cup finals."
Does this moron know if France hadn't have scored it would've gone to penalties?
To be fair on Henry, it was obviously a reaction rather than any calculated thought of keeping the ball in with his hand.
The ref/linesman must have spotted it though, disgraceful. As if the cretinous decision to seed the playoffs wasn't bad enough...I suppose FIFA mustn't upset the sponsors. Shame that money is tarnishing even the World Cup now.
Hard luck to the Ireland team and fans, I sympathise. Out of interest, will any of you be supporting Capello's lads in SA? Or is that a crazy suggestion? :)
To be fair on Henry, it was obviously a reaction rather than any calculated thought of keeping the ball in with his hand.
The first handball probably, the 2nd one... no way. He controlled the ball with his hand on the 2nd one so that he could use his foot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWjzBC58dA
Perhaps - although the speed it happened at and the ball being at hand height still makes me think he might have done it as a reaction as oppose to deliberately thinking it would be the best way to keep the ball in. Not that I have any sympathy for him, he's going to the WC on the back of a very dodgy decision. The reaction of the players alone should have been enough for the ref to have had a serious discussion with his linesman to question it further.
AndyHall
19-11-2009, 08:57
As if the cretinous decision to seed the playoffs wasn't bad enough...I suppose FIFA mustn't upset the sponsors. Shame that money is tarnishing even the World Cup now.
You can bet anything you like that if the situation was different and France had automatically qualified and England had only reached the playoffs there's no way they would have seeded the playoff draw...
ralph wiggum
19-11-2009, 09:15
The first handball probably, the 2nd one... no way. He controlled the ball with his hand on the 2nd one so that he could use his foot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWjzBC58dA
The thing is, the time between the first & the second was a tiny, tiny fraction of a second! It was just an instinctive reaction. Before England fans start talking about cheats, they should bear in mind that Gerrard's (amongst others) dives are premeditated, Henry's incident wasn't.
It is clearly cheating, instinctive or not. Henry cheated to have an advantage of the situation. If it is instinctive, it just shows Henry has a cheating streak in him
ralph wiggum
19-11-2009, 09:28
It is clearly cheating, instinctive or not. Henry cheated to have an advantage of the situation. If it is instinctive, it just shows Henry has a cheating streak in him
:lol:
It was instinctive, pretty much every player would have done the same thing.
Should the goal have stood? Of course not
Is it worse than a premeditated dive? No.
QUOTE MaddyPaulus
Their online story at the moment the sun calls it "Le hand of god"
I'm surprised The Sun didn't call it "The Hand of Frog".
el_nello
19-11-2009, 10:02
To be fair on Henry, it was obviously a reaction rather than any calculated thought of keeping the ball in with his hand.
The ref/linesman must have spotted it though, disgraceful. As if the cretinous decision to seed the playoffs wasn't bad enough...I suppose FIFA mustn't upset the sponsors. Shame that money is tarnishing even the World Cup now.
Hard luck to the Ireland team and fans, I sympathise. Out of interest, will any of you be supporting Capello's lads in SA? Or is that a crazy suggestion? :)
I don't think the linesman could have spotted it as it was on the other side of the goal through a number of players. I didn't see the referee's position but to spot that would have been difficult with all the players in there.
Had they been using a 3rd and 4th assistant (as is being trialled in Europa League) then it would have been right in front of one of those assistants and would have been called.
You can bet anything you like that if the situation was different and France had automatically qualified and England had only reached the playoffs there's no way they would have seeded the playoff draw...
That's a ridiculous thing to say. What difference would it make if France had qualified? why would FIFA behave differently in that case? As I understood it, the play-offs were always going to be seeded.
Very hard luck on the Irish after a good battling performance but that should be the end of it. Henry clearly cheated but I'm not sure that there would be any player in any other team in that situation who wouldn't do the same thing. The frenchmen I spoke to after the game were happy they qualified but did admit it wasn't a deserved result with the Henry incident.
Drysolder
19-11-2009, 10:04
The thing is, the time between the first & the second was a tiny, tiny fraction of a second! It was just an instinctive reaction. Before England fans start talking about cheats, they should bear in mind that Gerrard's (amongst others) dives are premeditated, Henry's incident wasn't.
Henry has admitted this morning he deliberately handballed.
To be fair on Henry, it was obviously a reaction rather than any calculated thought of keeping the ball in with his hand.
The ref/linesman must have spotted it though, disgraceful. As if the cretinous decision to seed the playoffs wasn't bad enough...I suppose FIFA mustn't upset the sponsors. Shame that money is tarnishing even the World Cup now.
Hard luck to the Ireland team and fans, I sympathise. Out of interest, will any of you be supporting Capello's lads in SA? Or is that a crazy suggestion? :)
This sort of thing does annoy me. Yes the referee did miss the incident and is partly at fault, but a player has blatently cheated. If players showed a bit of integrity and honesty, a lot of these incidents could be avoided.
I get fed up with Ferguson et al complaining about refs, yet think it's part of the game that a player can to cheat to gain an unfair advantage.
Watch any game, a ball will go out for a throw/corner and some occasions both players will claim it. 9 times out of 10 one of them is cheating and knows it has come off him.
My point being that we wouldn't need all this technology if players owned up to cheating.
That's a ridiculous thing to say. What difference would it make if France had qualified? why would FIFA behave differently in that case? As I understood it, the play-offs were always going to be seeded.
Think it's quite well known that FIFA/UEFA moved the goalposts on seeding the playoffs near the end of qualification, with the cynical amongst us concluding that they did that to benefit the bigger nations who had cocked up their qualifying campaigns...
ralph wiggum
19-11-2009, 10:13
Henry has admitted this morning he deliberately handballed.
And?
All I'm saying is that it wasn't premeditated - it couldn't have been, it was only a fraction of a second.
If it was deliberate handball, it was premeditated, as he knew what he was doing.
Drysolder
19-11-2009, 10:19
And?
All I'm saying is that it wasn't premeditated - it couldn't have been, it was only a fraction of a second.
Deliberate, as in, with intent.
It was a calculated split-second decision - he handballed it twice, the second time, guiding the ball to his foot. That's not coincidence.
He's just serving his own conscience this morning by admitting openly that he did, in fact, cheat. And what's worse, is that he seems to be blaming the ref - wtf?
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_5703602,00.html
On the point of a player admitting to a referee that they had cheated, it wouldn't actually make any difference since the ref still couldn't give it. Graham Poll has just confirmed that if the ref or his linesmen don't see an incident, they cannot give a decison based on a player's information, whether they are admitting to it or not.
It's a shame as otherwise the ref had a good game, he just missed the biggest incident of the match.
:lol:
It was instinctive, pretty much every player would have done the same thing.
Should the goal have stood? Of course not
Is it worse than a premeditated dive? No.
:lol: (not sure what that is about)
Anyway, he chose to deliberately guide the ball with his hand to a position where he could kick the ball across the goal. If you do not think that is cheating, then more fool you.
On the point of a player admitting to a referee that they had cheated, it wouldn't actually make any difference since the ref still couldn't give it. Graham Poll has just confirmed that if the ref or his linesmen don't see an incident, they cannot give a decison based on a player's information, whether they are admitting to it or not.
Not sure how the linesman 'did not' see the incident. I would have expected the ref to at least consult his linesman if the ref was unsighted and all the opposition players in the vicinity are calling for a handball
That's a ridiculous thing to say. What difference would it make if France had qualified? why would FIFA behave differently in that case? As I understood it, the play-offs were always going to be seeded.
Well that is certainly the argument FIFA use.
Throughout the qualification process the rules as stated on FIFA's website were:
The 8 best Round One group runners-up will contest Round Two.
The teams will be paired into 4 home-and-away series.
The winners qualify for the FIFA World CupTM
No mention of seeding. Then once qualifying had been completed and it was established that both France and Portugal among others would face play off ties Sepp Blatter was quoted as saying
We have decided on seeding the teams into two groups of four, taking the FIFA world rankings into account, with the top four in one pot and the others in another pot
Fifa say, well we never said it wouldn't be seeded and you all just jumped to the wrong conclusions and can point to the fact that past play offs have been seeded.
While others cry foul and say it is just FIFA following the money protecting they bigger teams.
Deliberate, as in, with intent.
It was a calculated split-second decision - he handballed it twice, the second time, guiding the ball to his foot. That's not coincidence.
I think there's a clear distinction between a player going on a run into the box and thinking "if someone lunges in, I am going to dive" and a player reacting in a split second to a ball at hand height slipping out of play. The way the ball bounces first means I doubt Henry had any 'thinking' time at all. It's clearly a deliberate handball, but whether it's cheating is not so clear cut. I do think it was unsporting/cheating to not immediately own up to the ref to try and reverse the decision though (although from the post above, it doesn't appear as if this would have done any good).
ralph wiggum
19-11-2009, 10:58
Henry has admitted this morning he deliberately handballed.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_5703602,00.html
He says there that he didn't do it on purpose. :shrug:
horseflesh
19-11-2009, 11:10
I think there's a clear distinction between a player going on a run into the box and thinking "if someone lunges in, I am going to dive" and a player reacting in a split second to a ball at hand height slipping out of play. The way the ball bounces first means I doubt Henry had any 'thinking' time at all. It's clearly a deliberate handball, but whether it's cheating is not so clear cut. I do think it was unsporting/cheating to not immediately own up to the ref to try and reverse the decision though (although from the post above, it doesn't appear as if this would have done any good).
He says that he did tell the referee that he handled the ball, but the ref waved him away and told him "You are not the referee".
I'm still gutted that it happened, but on reflection I do think it was an instinctive reaction by Henry. He did handle the ball and the goal should not have stood, but I don't think it was premeditated out-and-out cheating.
Aha, then fair enough (although perhaps he should have tried a bit harder!).
The ironic thing about the ridiculous decision to seed the play offs is that I reckon Ireland prob would arguably have brought more revenue than the French anyway....supporters that would have actually made the trip to SA in large numbers not to mention the legion of plastic paddies in the US watching on TV. The French as a nation don't seem particularly enthusiastic about football and with Domenech at the helm, they'll prob go out quite early anyway! It's disappointing though as I enjoy watching Ireland in major tournaments, they have always entertained - I have fond memories of Houghton's goal against Italy, Keane equalizing against Germany, Aldridge ranting etc. etc.
ralph wiggum
19-11-2009, 11:15
I'm still gutted that it happened, but on reflection I do think it was an instinctive reaction by Henry. He did handle the ball and the goal should not have stood, but I don't think it was premeditated out-and-out cheating.
You put it far better than I could. :thumbs:
unrealnils
19-11-2009, 11:56
i bet france go on to win it !
He says that he did tell the referee that he handled the ball, but the ref waved him away and told him "You are not the referee".
I'm still gutted that it happened, but on reflection I do think it was an instinctive reaction by Henry. He did handle the ball and the goal should not have stood, but I don't think it was premeditated out-and-out cheating.
Was this before or after he wheeled away celebrating?
I can't believe people are actually claiming that TWO handballs were instinctive? Let's not forget that this is a guy who has been playing football all of his life as an outfield player and that using his hands has never been allowed.
Out and out cheating in desperation to get to a World Cup.
I like how the BBC have a live feed about the fallout:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8367913.stm
Radiohead
19-11-2009, 12:23
What was the ref doing ignoring him though?
i bet france go on to win it !
They are a VERY ordinary side nowadays - I'd certainly rank England ahead of them as long as Domenech is still in charge for sure.
Peter UK
19-11-2009, 12:26
Out and out cheating in desperation to get to a World Cup.
You never saw Keane handball a few times last night too then. I did.
EVERY player would have (and will) do it; it only reinforces what what seems like the vast majority want and to introduce video technology.
el_nello
19-11-2009, 12:43
Well that is certainly the argument FIFA use.
Throughout the qualification process the rules as stated on FIFA's website were:
No mention of seeding. Then once qualifying had been completed and it was established that both France and Portugal among others would face play off ties Sepp Blatter was quoted as saying
Fifa say, well we never said it wouldn't be seeded and you all just jumped to the wrong conclusions and can point to the fact that past play offs have been seeded.
While others cry foul and say it is just FIFA following the money protecting they bigger teams.
Sorry, I wasn't aware that it had been decided so late to seed the play-offs. I'd been under the impression that it was always going to be that way.
It is a shame there is the protection of the bigger teams but then there is all the way through qualifying too with the seeded groups etc.
Broadcasters pay big bucks for the rights and will want the tastiest product so maybe FIFA want to have it that way too.
Think it's quite well known that FIFA/UEFA moved the goalposts on seeding the playoffs near the end of qualification, with the cynical amongst us concluding that they did that to benefit the bigger nations who had cocked up their qualifying campaigns...
See above, I hadn't realised it was an apparent late change. However, I still think they wouldn't have changed their minds had it been France qualified and England in the play-offs instead. I couldn't see why they should favour France over England.
You never saw Keane handball a few times last night too then. I did.
EVERY player would have (and will) do it; it only reinforces what what seems like the vast majority want and to introduce video technology.
I was in work so didn't see anything apart from the goals, I would have no problem in condemning such disgraceful cheating like this no matter who the culprit was or who he played for.
Drysolder
19-11-2009, 13:09
He says there that he didn't do it on purpose. :shrug:
Isn't handball an absolute rule? Therefore he has no excuse as it's not ball to hand.
In any case, his excuse doesn't explain the second handball where he appears to guide the flight of the ball.
I can't believe you're still giving him the benefit of the doubt under such evidence that he cheated deliberately.
Peter UK
19-11-2009, 13:14
I was in work so didn't see anything apart from the goals, I would have no problem in condemning such disgraceful cheating like this no matter who the culprit was or who he played for.
They both cheated but only one results in a goal so who, or what's, worse? Kick both teams out as they both had players that cheat(ed)? No, they need to introduce a system whereby correct decisions can be made at the time and not retrospective punishment & the mass hysteria afterwards.
They both cheated but only one results in a goal so who, or what's, worse? Kick both teams out as they both had players that cheat(ed)? No, they need to introduce a system whereby correct decisions can be made at the time and not retrospective punishment & the mass hysteria afterwards.
Well obviously the one that results in the game winning goal? :shrug:
I am in agreement though that refereeing needs to be overhauled much quicker than it currently is. In the meantime some retrospective punishment wouldn't go amiss. There is far too much cheating going on and it's only in rare cases that they get punished, even then it will only be a yellow card.
The various FAs and football organisations need to join the 21st century, how you can rescind a straight red card but not two yellows is a joke. Christ we could have all of the weekends Premiership activities sorted out on a Monday morning.
ralph wiggum
19-11-2009, 13:53
Isn't handball an absolute rule? Therefore he has no excuse as it's not ball to hand.
In any case, his excuse doesn't explain the second handball where he appears to guide the flight of the ball.
I can't believe you're still giving him the benefit of the doubt under such evidence that he cheated deliberately.
In that post I was just pointing out that you claimed he admitted doing it deliberately when in fact he hadn't. Nothing more.
I just got sent this by a journalist friend:
Thierry Henry
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Thierry **** Henry (French pronunciation: [tjɛʁi ɑ̃ˈʁi]; born 17 August 1977) is a French **** footballer who plays for Spanish La Liga club Barcelona and the ******* French national team, predominantly as a ****.
Henry was born a **** and remains a ****, Essonne—a suburb of Paris—where he played for an array of local sides as a **** and showed great promise as a ****. He was spotted by AS Monaco in 1990 and signed instantly, making his professional debut in 1994. Good form led to an international call-up in 1998, after which he signed for the Serie A defending champions Juventus. He had a disappointing season playing on the wing, before joining Arsenal for £10.5 million in 1999; the ****.
It was at Arsenal that Henry made his name as a ****. Despite initially struggling in the Premier League, he emerged as Arsenal's top **** for almost every season of his tenure there. Under long-time mentor and coach Arsène Wenger, Henry became a prolific **** and Arsenal's all-time leading **** with 226 goals in all competitions. The **** won two league titles and three FA Cups with the Gunners; he was twice nominated for the FIFA World **** of the Year, was named the PFA Players' **** of the Year twice, and the Football Writers' Association **** of the ***** three times. Henry spent his final two seasons with Arsenal as club captain, leading them to the UEFA Champions League final in 2006. In June 2007, after eight years with Arsenal, he transferred to Barcelona for a fee of €24 million. His first honours with the Catalan club came in 2008–09 when they won the league, cup and Champions League treble; the ****.
Henry has enjoyed similar success with the French national squad, having won the 1998 FIFA World Cup and Euro 2000. In October 2007, he surpassed Michel Platini's record to become France's top **** of all time. Off the pitch, as a result of his own experience, Henry is an active **** against decency and fairness and honour. His footballing style and personality have ensured that he is one of the most commercially marketable ***** in the world; he has been featured in advertisements for Nike, Reebok, Renault, Pepsi and Gillette.
I'm sure you can work out the word that has been censored (it rhymes with funt and munt).
spearce8
19-11-2009, 14:03
Hand of Frog
I see there's already a Wikipedia page :lol: not much of one, but still.
Drysolder
19-11-2009, 14:12
In that post I was just pointing out that you claimed he admitted doing it deliberately when in fact he hadn't. Nothing more.
Whether he claims ignorance is no defence, handball is an absolute deliberate offence, and where he was on the pitch, with the ball going out - of course, it was deliberate.
I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree, because you're obviously seeing other footage that the rest of the world doesn't have access to.
ralph wiggum
19-11-2009, 14:30
Whether he claims ignorance is no defence, handball is an absolute deliberate offence, and where he was on the pitch, with the ball going out - of course, it was deliberate.
I apologise, I misunderstood you, I think get what you are saying now. Because he admitted the hand ball, he is therefore admitting doing it deliberately? Yes, we can agree to disagree on that one. :)
Drysolder
19-11-2009, 14:36
I apologise, I misunderstood you, I think get what you are saying now. Because he admitted the hand ball, he is therefore admitting doing it deliberately? Yes, we can agree to disagree on that one. :)
:lol:
In terms of this post: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/rules_and_equipment/4524354.stm
We can both agree Henry's hand and arm is in an 'unnatural position' in relation to the ball (ie, he's blocking the ball from going out of play) ergo tis deliberate, my son.
Oh, :)
ralph wiggum
19-11-2009, 14:51
my son.
OK dad. :nuts:
We seem to be getting totally away from the point. I was merely pointing out that you claimed Henry had admitted doing it on purpose, whereas in fact he hadn't (although maybe he will in the future?).
Even Gallas knows Henry cheated, the ball has barely left his head and he is looking at the linesman flag
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/5610/10666x450931607a.jpg (http://img694.imageshack.us/i/10666x450931607a.jpg/)
Peter UK
19-11-2009, 15:12
Hardly conclusive as again every goalscorer who has an inkling they may be offside a la Gallas will look for a flag :nuts:
Heck it looks like the three Irish lads are calling it offside too.
horseflesh
19-11-2009, 15:24
See above, I hadn't realised it was an apparent late change. However, I still think they wouldn't have changed their minds had it been France qualified and England in the play-offs instead. I couldn't see why they should favour France over England.
To be frank, I think every other country would prefer England not to be going to the finals because of the hooliganism element.
That aside, FIFA want all the big countries there. It didn't matter that it was France & Portugal, they wanted to give the big countries every opportunity to get to South Africa. If it had happened that it was Italy & England, FIFA would done the same thing and introduced seeding to keep them apart.
Henry was also offside!
and he's a ******* cheating ****.
MaddyPaulus
19-11-2009, 16:24
Henry was also offside!
Wrong! He ran past at least 2 irish players to get on the end of the long ball.
He was definately in an onside position when he cheated. :nuts:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FNJndFpgTEI&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FNJndFpgTEI&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
SOUNDSTYLE
19-11-2009, 21:39
No official word from Blatter and Platini yet then? What a surprise!
If this was the other way round they would be the first to make their comments known.
What a ******* joke! :mad:
SIMON ADEBISI
19-11-2009, 21:47
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FNJndFpgTEI&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FNJndFpgTEI&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Thats painful :lol:
Drysolder
19-11-2009, 22:00
OK dad. :nuts:
We seem to be getting totally away from the point. I was merely pointing out that you claimed Henry had admitted doing it on purpose, whereas in fact he hadn't (although maybe he will in the future?).
In fact he had by admitting it was a handball violation (he could have simply said the ball bounced onto his hand or some other excuse), but since you fail to even pick up that point, let's leave it there.
ralph wiggum
19-11-2009, 22:46
In fact he had by admitting it was a handball violation (he could have simply said the ball bounced onto his hand or some other excuse), but since you fail to even pick up that point, let's leave it there.
OK, he admitted it by denying it. :lol:
Stevie G
19-11-2009, 23:44
BBC reckon the Irish are going to ask Uefa for a rematch. Won't get anywhere, but good on them for trying. At least it'll put more pressure on Uefa to speak out
ralph wiggum
20-11-2009, 00:07
BBC reckon the Irish are going to ask Uefa for a rematch. Won't get anywhere, but good on them for trying. At least it'll put more pressure on Uefa to speak out
I guess it's a debate for a different thread, but if they had introduced video referees this would have been cleared up in 10 seconds.
dco_chris
20-11-2009, 00:23
BBC reckon the Irish are going to ask Uefa for a rematch. Won't get anywhere, but good on them for trying. At least it'll put more pressure on Uefa to speak out
That could be interesting, is it UEFA or FIFA who will make the decision? If it's UEFA then it would be very easy to lay accusations of bias if the appeal is turned down, what with Platini being in charge. I wonder if the Irish FA would consider the suggestion of taking legal action.
Right ive had time to calm down and think about this now and I have a theory as to how prevent this going forward.
The fault here lies entirely with the player.
It is his choice to cheat and his alone.
At present if a player cheats and gets away with it , he ,his club/country ,bank balance etc all benefit.
If he is caught he gets a yellow card or if the ref feels brave a red one. Or as in Eduardo's case a ban which was later overturned.
The punishment doesnt fit the crime.
We have alter the players decision making process
The solution is simple .
For cases involving serious foul play the punishment should be match forfeited. The game can still flow the spectacle wont be diminished etc. Only the important bit-the result would change.
Cheat penalty clauses could be written into contracts allowing clubs to punish players financially(just as is done with drug abuse).
Only if the penalty is severe enough can we affect a players choice not to cheat.
Mandrill
20-11-2009, 02:58
Right ive had time to calm down and think about this now and I have a theory as to how prevent this going forward.
The fault here lies entirely with the player.
It is his choice to cheat and his alone.
At present if a player cheats and gets away with it , he ,his club/country ,bank balance etc all benefit.
If he is caught he gets a yellow card or if the ref feels brave a red one. Or as in Eduardo's case a ban which was later overturned.
The punishment doesnt fit the crime.
We have alter the players decision making process
The solution is simple .
For cases involving serious foul play the punishment should be match forfeited. The game can still flow the spectacle wont be diminished etc. Only the important bit-the result would change.
Cheat penalty clauses could be written into contracts allowing clubs to punish players financially(just as is done with drug abuse).
Only if the penalty is severe enough can we affect a players choice not to cheat.
Define serious foul play ?
What Henry did was wrong but you can't go round saying anything that happens like that mean's a match is forfeited.If that were the case every week in the Premier league clubs would be appealing to have matches forfeited over dodgy decision's.Then of course the club accused would then appeal it would be a joke.
Darth Sidious
20-11-2009, 05:59
If this happened to England The Irish, Scots & Welsh would whip it out and start having a tommy tank.
So guess what?
hahahhahahahhahahahhahhahahhahaha bye bye Ireland!
I bet those Irish eyes aint smiling now are they muhahahahhahah
sorry couldnt resist!
Please no flames.:n0rty:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/8368100.stm
No replay
Art Vanderlay
20-11-2009, 07:33
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/8368100.stm
No replay
Sad as it is for the Irish, that has got to be the correct decision. It would be chaos otherwise.
Something I don't get is , after a match carded players are able to appeal the decision at later date and get them recinded ? Allowing a goal is a decision made by the ref. Is there something that says goals are different to any other event in the game ?
Yes, a goal is a goal, its not going to change.
welshmatt
20-11-2009, 08:48
Something I don't get is , after a match carded players are able to appeal the decision at later date and get them recinded ? Allowing a goal is a decision made by the ref. Is there something that says goals are different to any other event in the game ?
Goals decide games directly, cards dont.
The Cleaner
20-11-2009, 09:19
I though the decision was ******* awful but the FAI are doing themselves no favours on banging on about getting a replay for the game.
Fair enough in pushing for video technology to be used in the future but they're not the first team (or last) to feel a sense of injustice from a referring decision. I was cursing at the referees decision in the Scotland-Italy game a few years ago to allow a free kick which led to Italy's winner and our demise from the Euro Qualifying when it was clearly a foul on a Scottish player.
Why then do the FAI think they are a special case that they be allowed to replay the game?
I though the decision was ******* awful but the FAI are doing themselves no favours on banging on about getting a replay for the game.
Fair enough in pushing for video technology to be used in the future but they're not the first team (or last) to feel a sense of injustice from a referring decision. I was cursing at the referees decision in the Scotland-Italy game a few years ago to allow a free kick which led to Italy's winner and our demise from the Euro Qualifying when it was clearly a foul on a Scottish player.
Why then do the FAI think they are a special case that they be allowed to replay the game?
I don't think the FAI think they are a special case. I think they just did it to show face. I doubt anyone in the FAI ever thought they would get a replay but why not appeal anyway?
Let's face it, if ROI had needed a goal in normal time to take the match into extra time and Keane or another player had done what Henry did, none of the Irish players would have admitted it to the officials. It's not right, but there is simply too much riding on these games these days for sportsmanship to come into play.
By the way, The Sun have stolen my "Hand of Frog" headline today. I want money from them :)
rbullivant
20-11-2009, 10:34
Something I don't get is , after a match carded players are able to appeal the decision at later date and get them recinded ? Allowing a goal is a decision made by the ref. Is there something that says goals are different to any other event in the game ?
They're not really appealing getting sent off, they are appealing the card and the subsequent suspension. When a card is succesfully appealed they're not getting the game replayed are they?
A bit disapointing for Ireland fans to lose in such a way, but that is football.
R
On BBC News ticker:
Thierry Henry says replaying World Cup play-off with Republic of Ireland is the "fairest solution"
Thierry Henry says replaying World Cup play-off with Republic of Ireland is the "fairest solution"
Yeah, now that it has already been poo-poo'd by FIFA :lol:
Anyway, my view is that Henry should be banned for 4 international matches for "Gross Misconduct" or "Bringing the game into disrepute".
rustybin
20-11-2009, 13:00
On BBC News ticker:
Thierry Henry says replaying World Cup play-off with Republic of Ireland is the "fairest solution"
PR excercise - he can say that in full knowledge that the game will never be replayed.
Peter UK
20-11-2009, 13:25
"I have said at the time and I will say again that yes I handled the ball."
"I am not a cheat and never have been. It was an instinctive reaction to a ball that was coming extremely fast in a crowded penalty area.
"As a footballer you do not have the luxury of the television to slow the pace of the ball down 100 times to be able to make a conscious decision.
"People are viewing a slow motion version of what happened and not what I or any other footballer faces in the game.
"If people look at it in full speed you will see that it was an instinctive reaction. It is impossible to be anything other than that.
"I have never denied that the ball was controlled with my hand. I told the Irish players, the referee and the media this after the game.
"Naturally I feel embarrassed at the way that we won and feel extremely sorry for the Irish who definitely deserve to be in South Africa.
"Of course the fairest solution would be to replay the game, but it is not in my control.
"There is little more I can do apart from admit that the ball had contact with my hand leading up to our equalising goal and I feel very sorry for the Irish."
---
Talk of replays from the Irish are just as much a PR exercise though as if they were really serious then they'd need to replay the Ireland Georgia game for that inexplicable penalty Keane scored to draw them level. And we could go on and on and on.
For me all the blame being heaped on Henry is misguided; the anger should be directed towards game officials and the governing bodies.
Henry's ****** himself though :lol: All those years of carefully crafting his image alongside the GENIUS of a player he is/ was has gone down the drain; no more Gilette ad's for him I think.
"I have said at the time and I will say again that yes I handled the ball."
"I am not a cheat and never have been. It was an instinctive reaction to a ball that was coming extremely fast in a crowded penalty area.
"As a footballer you do not have the luxury of the television to slow the pace of the ball down 100 times to be able to make a conscious decision.
"People are viewing a slow motion version of what happened and not what I or any other footballer faces in the game.
"If people look at it in full speed you will see that it was an instinctive reaction. It is impossible to be anything other than that.
"I have never denied that the ball was controlled with my hand. I told the Irish players, the referee and the media this after the game.
"Naturally I feel embarrassed at the way that we won and feel extremely sorry for the Irish who definitely deserve to be in South Africa.
"Of course the fairest solution would be to replay the game, but it is not in my control.
"There is little more I can do apart from admit that the ball had contact with my hand leading up to our equalising goal and I feel very sorry for the Irish."
---
Talk of replays from the Irish are just as much a PR exercise though as if they were really serious then they'd need to replay the Ireland Georgia game for that inexplicable penalty Keane scored to draw them level.
Weird, he certainly didn't look embarrassed by celebrating the goal quite emphatically.
A replay was never going to happen and would only open a massive can of worms, hopefully what it will do is force the governing bodies to scrutinise the officiating.
TheGreat
20-11-2009, 13:34
Yeah, now that it has already been poo-poo'd by FIFA :lol:
Anyway, my view is that Henry should be banned for 4 international matches for "Gross Misconduct" or "Bringing the game into disrepute".
We're talking about this in work. General concensus is that he could only get a yellow card as that's all a deliberate handball would get during the game but we're not sure. Anyone shed any light on retrospective punishments?
welshmatt
20-11-2009, 13:44
We're talking about this in work. General concensus is that he could only get a yellow card as that's all a deliberate handball would get during the game but we're not sure. Anyone shed any light on retrospective punishments?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/1211558.stm
Didn't Henry say something like 'It was necessary to exploit what was exploitable' in reference to the incident?
MaddyPaulus
20-11-2009, 14:34
By the way, The Sun have stolen my "Hand of Frog" headline today. I want money from them :)Yours?
Mandrill posted it 12 hours before you! (http://www.thedvdforums.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=8866480&postcount=66) :thumbs:
Niceguygeoff
20-11-2009, 14:48
Agree with most of the above, it simply cannot be replayed because of the precedent it would set, much like Eduardo getting his ban overturned. If that had stood, every single dive in the same circumstances would have to be punished in the same way, and the governing authorities simply don't have the bottle for it.
Looking back at it, Henry is still a cheating ******* but, as he rightly says, it's not for him to decide if it was foul play or not. There are blatant handballs witnessed at every ground up and down the country every weekend, and usually they get caught. It was just dumb ******* luck that Henry's deed was missed by the officials. C'est la vie.
Yours?
Mandrill posted it 12 hours before you! (http://www.thedvdforums.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=8866480&postcount=66) :thumbs:
OK, I'll share the money with him.
Anyway, my view is that Henry should be banned for 4 international matches for "Gross Misconduct" or "Bringing the game into disrepute".
That's the most sense i've heard all day. They are never going to repay the game so ban the player for 4 matches. If FIFA just sit back it will create a horrible precident
Peter UK
20-11-2009, 18:36
And banning a player who handballed wouldn't?
Like Eduardo, it's mental that people wish to retrospectively change a yellow card offence into a 2/3/4/life time ban.
Increase the resources the officials have during the game and be done with it. They (all) need to put up or shut up.
horseflesh
20-11-2009, 18:39
That's the most sense i've heard all day. They are never going to repay the game so ban the player for 4 matches. If FIFA just sit back it will create a horrible precident
And banning a player for 4 matches for handling the ball wouldn't set a horrible precedent?
There's no chance of a replay, I think the most anyone can hope for is this incident will set in motion the move to "live" video evidence.
It's plainly ridiculous that in the 21st century we're still essentially relying on at any one time, two middle-aged men being able to see everything that happens in a group of maybe 15 players while up to 40 metres from the action.
What's wrong with setting a precedent for banning players who cheat and then get caught on TV??
Surely that would be enough to discourage them?
Raigmore
20-11-2009, 22:11
It's plainly ridiculous that in the 21st century we're still essentially relying on at any one time, two middle-aged men being able to see everything that happens in a group of maybe 15 players while up to 40 metres from the action. Well said. I do not believe that using video evidence would slow the game down. After the first few are caught out, the others will quickly get the message. The problem now is that cheaters know that they have a chance of getting away with it. If they knew that any form of cheating would mean exposure and severe punitive measures, they would be less inclined to do so.
I think an early retirement from International football is about to happen.
unrealnils
21-11-2009, 07:05
I didnt see the game but does anyone have a clip of given on anelka ?
was it a pen or not ?
I didnt see the game but does anyone have a clip of given on anelka ?
was it a pen or not ?
no, but it could have been given. There was minimal contact and Anelka went down looking for the penalty but he had no control over the ball.
Bizarrely FIFA have asked for the Republic of Ireland to be included as an 'extra team' in the finals.
dannywonderful
30-11-2009, 10:40
Bizarrely FIFA have asked for the Republic of Ireland to be included as an 'extra team' in the finals.
No, they haven't. ROI have asked FIFA to include them as an extra team, not the other way round.
Good point, well made - I need to learn to read proper.
losimagic
30-11-2009, 10:52
yeah... that's going to happen, lol
It's pretty ******* pathetic as it happens :lol:
That's almost sad.
It's **** what happened but it's football. Move on, get over it.
LouBarlow
30-11-2009, 11:36
I hope Fifa are going to go back through all the matches of the qualification campaign and make ammends for every refereeing mistake made, and adjust the results likewise.
What's wrong with setting a precedent for banning players who cheat and then get caught on TV??
Surely that would be enough to discourage them?
That's what all the gooners said about the Eduardo incident. No problem with him getting a ban so long as that was consistently applied. But UEFA/FIFA had a think about the problems that could cause and decided to bottle it.
Also, what if the players cheat and get caught by the referee? Is it the same punishment or is a dive just a yellow card with no ban in that circumstance? If the latter, you're punsihing the player because the referee missed something.
horseflesh
30-11-2009, 12:19
That's almost sad.
It's **** what happened but it's football. Move on, get over it.
It's beyond sad, it's pathetic as Maximus said.
FIFA got what they wanted, once the draw is made and the build-up begins it'll all be forgotten about.
I hope Fifa are going to go back through all the matches of the qualification campaign and make ammends for every refereeing mistake made, and adjust the results likewise.
I hope they don't, because the World Cup will never happen.
essex_max
30-11-2009, 12:42
The Irish are embarrassing themselves with this request to be an extra team in the World Cup. :oh-hum:
simonmac
30-11-2009, 13:38
It does seem that way, they can't possibly think this will ever happen!
I hope Fifa are going to go back through all the matches of the qualification campaign and make ammends for every refereeing mistake made, and adjust the results likewise.
And to also make the assumption that every team that lost a game due to bad decision would automatically have gone on to actually WIN the game!
There's a great clip running on SSN tonight with a woman in the street in Ireland claiming that they should have a re-match and that "even if it was only a friendly match that would be better than nothing" :lol:.
Niceguygeoff
30-11-2009, 19:08
And to also make the assumption that every team that lost a game due to bad decision would automatically have gone on to actually WIN the game!
That's what tickles me about this whole sorry affair. Yes, Henry was a cheating **** but the match was only 1-1 at the time. The Irish were clearly denied a 5-0 win in the penalty shoot-out. :lol:
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