View Full Version : The Discreet Charm ..... Watched it/Enjoyed it/Didn't really get it!
Last night I finally convinced my girlfriend to watch "The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeousie". I watched it with nothing less than a smile on my face, I thoroughly enjoyed the barbed satire at the French Social Classes. I adored the reasons for missed dinners ranging from sublime to ridiculous.
However, I don't really get the film!:confused:
What was the obsession with death/ghosts? Was the whole film a dream from Rafael's p.o.v., were dream sequences indicated by the "walking" scenes? If not, what did the "walking" scenes denote? Is it a reflection of the French political climate at the time?
I haven't watched any of the documentaries on the disc as of yet - I don't know if they will help clear things up for me.
It's a keeper, and one I'm sure I will watch again and again, I just would like to understand more, right now!
Michael Brooke
26-02-2002, 09:47
At the risk of sounding evasive, you should never, ever attempt to “understand” films by people like Luis Bunuel, as you’ll only end up frustrating yourself.
Bunuel worked largely from his subconscious mind, and he was the first to admit that he didn’t have a clue what many of his most memorable images and ideas “meant” – indeed, when collaborating on the script of his first film <I>Un Chien Andalou</I> with Salvador Dali they agreed that any ideas for which they could devise a rational explanation would be eliminated, no questions asked.
And Bunuel stayed true to these principles throughout his career - a good example is in <I>That Obscure Object of Desire</I> where Fernando Rey, for no apparent reason, picks up a bag of tools when leaving a room. He shot the scene twice, once with the tools and once without, and tested it on various friends and colleagues – and they all agreed that the shot “felt” better with the tools, but none of them could explain why.
An even more famous example is the Chinaman’s box in <I>Belle de Jour</I> that all the prostitutes are so fascinated by – as were audiences, who bombarded Bunuel with questions as to what was in it. Needless to say, he didn’t have the faintest idea, and usually answered “whatever you want there to be” (Quentin Tarantino pulled off something similar with the briefcase in <I>Pulp Fiction</I>, the subject of even more pointless speculation).
So just sit back and enjoy his films - don't worry about their meaning!
Thanks Michael, I can enjoy films in that (if you will forgive a modernism) "Lynchian" vein. My girlfriend, however, who also said she enjoyed the film but called it "Bonkers" after it had finished, requires a more rounded explanation. I feel a little guilty now, as last night when I convinced her to watch it I assured her it would be nothing like a "David Lynch" film.
Michael Brooke
26-02-2002, 10:28
Well, I’m trying out <I>That Obscure Object of Desire</I> on my fiancee this week – she’s never seen a Bunuel film before and wasn’t that keen on <I>Mulholland Drive</I> (my favourite film of the last 18 months), so fingers crossed!
Originally posted by Michael Brooke
Well, I’m trying out <I>That Obscure Object of Desire</I> on my fiancee this week – she’s never seen a Bunuel film before and wasn’t that keen on <I>Mulholland Drive</I> (my favourite film of the last 18 months), so fingers crossed!
The prognosis doesn't sound good!
I made a deal with my girlfriend after we had seen Mulholland Drive - I wouldn't try to tell her what a great film it was if she wouldn't try to tell me how much she hated it.
It's worked fine. There's a school of thought out there that says poor communication can cause a break up in a relationship. Well, in this case a break in communication makes damn sure that the relationship doesn't suffer.
(I know, deep inside where it counts, that she is totally WRONG about Mulholland Drive)
Michael Brooke
26-02-2002, 10:59
Oh, I'm all for major artistic disagreements, and we both relish having them (I'd hate it if we both agreed on everything!). In fact, I'd have preferred it if she'd actually hated <I>Mulholland Drive</I> instead of quite enjoying it but not rating it anything like as highly as I did!
And I suspect she'll love the Bunuel, if only because she's very interested in the subject matter (obsessive desire to the point of fetishism). And if she doesn't... well, there's always another John Waters film, to name one director whose work I have succeeded in converting her to!
Originally posted by Michael Brooke
And I suspect she'll love the Bunuel, if only because she's very interested in the subject matter (obsessive desire to the point of fetishism). And if she doesn't... well, there's always another John Waters film, to name one director whose work I have succeeded in converting her to!
If obsessive desire is her thing, then you could do worse than let her watch Catherine Breillat's excellent "Romance", although I'm sure you've already thought of this.
Originally posted by Michael Brooke
Bunuel worked largely from his subconscious mind, and he was the first to admit that he didn’t have a clue what many of his most memorable images and ideas “meant” – indeed, when collaborating on the script of his first film <I>Un Chien Andalou</I> with Salvador Dali they agreed that any ideas for which they could devise a rational explanation would be eliminated, no questions asked.
If anyone's interested this is being shown as part of BBC4's launch week on March 5 at 23:45.
That's really good news, as it's a film that (probably because of it's famous image) I have been trying to see for many years.
Originally posted by MARKMAN
If not, what did the "walking" scenes denote? Is it a reflection of the French political climate at the time?
I've always assumed those walking scenes were a symbol of the bourgeois - walking in a self important manner but walking cluelessly towards some inexistant goal, stranded from the rest of society by their aloofness... But then again that's probably not at all what Bunuel intended to denote by that.
He told the actors to keep on walking and they naturely started to try and walk faster than the other one in order to be at the front of the image. :D
Cap'n Al
26-02-2002, 16:33
Like <i>Mulholland Drive</i>, it works best if viewed as a series of vaguely connected sketches, rather than as an especially coherent plot. Actually, there's a good deal of similarity between the two films; the comparisons are too boring to go into here, but they're strangely apt. Both, however, are excellent...
Barney_Tabasco
26-02-2002, 17:39
Originally posted by Cap'n Al
Like <i>Mulholland Drive</i>, it works best if viewed as a series of vaguely connected sketches, rather than as an especially coherent plot. Actually, there's a good deal of similarity between the two films; the comparisons are too boring to go into here, but they're strangely apt.
I was just thinking the same thing also. Some of the structural elements and characters floating in and out of the plot are very similar.
It's amazing how both films (as well as other Bunuel and Lynch films) are so much more enjoyable when you open your mind and forget about traditional plot structure.
Markman - good post!! What is the quality of the Bunuel dvd like? Any reviews anywhere?
Michael Brooke
26-02-2002, 23:01
The Criterion disc is the best version of the film I've ever seen, and I've seen loads. The transfer is superlative, and the main extra is a documentary that's as long as the main feature - which I reckon is good enough to release separately, though I'm glad Criterion didn't!
For more details, see my <A HREF="http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/reviews/region1/discreetcharm.html">review</A>.
Thanks Michael - should have checked under the region one reviews not just region two!!
Not yet got round to watching disk 2 in this set, how good a disc is it?
Michael Brooke
25-07-2002, 11:27
Absolutely stunning - as I said above (and in my review), the documentary is good enough to release separately along the lines of the Lynch documentary <I>Pretty As A Picture</I>, but I'm glad they didn't!
Hmm - think I will try and watch this in the next couple of days. Must get into the habit of putting on docs and features from my dvd's instead of channel hopping.:sad:
Maybe a crash course on surrealism (major art movement of the 20th century) would help to put it in context.
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