View Full Version : Derren Brown Events (How to win the National Lottery)
So at 10.35pm this Wednesday Derren Brown will apparently predict the lottery numbers (well, at least 5 of the 6 numbers) 5 minutes before they are drawn. It will be shown live across all of the channel 4 channels and on Friday he will show us how he did it as part of the first in his new series.
http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/
Have to admit, i am intrigued by this one! What do you guys reckon?
TheFatBoy
07-09-2009, 15:39
I'm guessing that you can't buy a ticket within 5 minutes of the draw? :(
scoobyood
07-09-2009, 17:21
Can't wait for this, going to be a fun month! :D
I'll tell you exactly how he is going to do it... don't look and spoil it, you'll regret it.
The fact of the matter, unless Camelot is corrupt, then he can't predict it beforehand. So basically he'll have researched BBC1's live broadcasting lag time, there is 5-15 minutes of lag on all live broadcasts. It could be low, down to a minute, for something like the lottery. So then he'll have several plants in the Lottery audience (if there is an audience) or a plant in the BBC control room etc. Then that person or persons (for backup) will send a message of the numbers. They'll only get 5 right and dress it up, 6 is "too good".
Of course this relies on Channel 4 being able to go live with zero lag (zero lag to the nation broadcasting control room at least)... since Derren's broadcast is going out on ALL Channel 4's channels at the same time and he's taking over the network, that could offer a clue. He could well be filming from the central control centre that collects all the network streams and distributes out all DVB/analogue signals. This would eliminate further seconds of multiple satellite relay lag (maybe a good minute) from Channel 4 HQ etc and give him even more time. Whether or not the +1 channels also cut out would confirm/deny this.
The third part of this that he isn't going to be able to buy a ticket. Today after the press release of this stunt you'll note that both Derren and Andy Nyman twittered out that they've been banned by Channel 4 from getting a lottery ticket. The excuse given was that they don't want to get sued by other winners losing out on a cut and the game being fixed. That's quite ridiculous and I have a feeling that Derren won't be able to "fight this" by Wednesday... we'll see Derren :P
It's very interesting and sure to be some great TV.
maddogsuk
07-09-2009, 17:27
Why Am I so tempted to read that spoiler!
scoobyood
07-09-2009, 17:38
Well I won't edit again and we'll leave wrapped up, like a prediction in an envelope :lol:, till Wednesday.
It doesn't give that much away, it's an educated guess at how he'll manage to do it, a bit like watching Johnathon Creek really.
It's not a spoiler, it's speculation. And I doubt it will be down to that, it wouldn't be a very elaborate 'event'.
scoobyood
07-09-2009, 17:48
It's not a spoiler, it's speculation. And I doubt it will be down to that, it wouldn't be a very elaborate 'event'.
The "elaborate" part comes down to the showmanship part. They'll dress it up big time. Plus...
it is kind of elaborate to guarantee people in the lottery audience and to effectively shutdown/bypass a whole network's broadcasting chain. I doubt that's ever been done and it's definitely a big technical and logical challenge. Not to mention the problem of getting a message out of the BBC studio, they probably block mobile phones for obvious reasons.
I don't know there's a lot of very sensible speculation in that spoiler. I tend to agree with it.
he obviously can't predict it in advance and if he could why not show the prediction an hour before transmission? seems fairly obvious that he's merely using the delay on the beeb and announcing the numbers early. seeing as the beeb have the contract to do that I wonder if they'll sue him? or better still go completely live to show him up. he's a great showman at times but this is heading for david blaine territory
I don't buy that as a potential explanation - at least I hope it's not.
For starters it would be really dull and the press would rumble that within minutes so he'd never be able to make it to Friday to 'reveal' how he did it.
And BTW, there's no audience at the lottery draws either - they just stick some canned applause over the top as the balls come out. I know he could still use other contacts on the scene but surely the Beeb could easily 'lock it down' if they want to scupper this plan?
stevie c
07-09-2009, 18:27
Hmmm - puzzled as to why the program is being named 'How to win the National Lottery' - when you obviously can't put on a ticket and therefore win it with only 5 minutes to go???
And if he says that he's only doing it 5 minutes beforehand due to legal ramifications with giving out the numbers whilst bets are still being placed - then why not do it 25 mins beforehand - as you cannot purchase a ticket within 30 mins of the draw taking place. 25 mins would certainly be a hell of a lot more impressive......
So, dunno if I'll bother with this one.....
Cheers,
Stevie.
Hmmm - puzzled as to why the program is being named 'How to win the National Lottery' - when you obviously can't put on a ticket and therefore win it with only 5 minutes to go???
Probably because if enough people caught a whiff of winning numbers, all got tickets, won and had to share it with about a million other people, some people might be a little bit annoyed...
He is going to 'reveal' how to do it after apparently.
I think the suggestion above is too lame to base a whole TV show on even for him. I suspect he'll only get a few numbers right.
Well it's certainly an "event" and has people wondering just how he'll do it. Should be fun! :)
25 mins would certainly be a hell of a lot more impressive......
What difference does it make? Is it any easier to do it 5 mins beforehand than 25?
I can't think of anyway he could do it before the draw, it's not something he can fake and the draw machine isn't suggestible like a human could be.
Friday's synopsis from digiguide:
The Event.
The first of four Friday night specials from Derren Brown. Derren reveals how he could (my emphasis) have pulled off Wednesday's live stunt.
Ep2
How to Control The Nation.
In this episode Derren will attempt to control the nation and literally have viewers stuck to their sofa as he speaks live to participating viewers at home.
On the ads he is stressing "misdirection". He's a tricky one! :D
scoobyood
08-09-2009, 06:20
What difference does it make? Is it any easier to do it 5 mins beforehand than 25?
Yes about 14 million times easier ;). But as I said before it'll be closer than 5 minutes. More like 2 minutes.
I think the suggestion above is too lame to base a whole TV show on even for him. I suspect he'll only get a few numbers right.
How Derren dresses up his stunts and how he "says" he does them isn't necessarily how he actually does them. Some of his other stunts have far far more benign truths behind them than what I've speculated for this. But we'll see on Friday..
what scoobyood says is what immediately sprang to my mind.
seems a bit obvious though
It'll probably be a lot easier. Unless he writes the numbers down for us all to see prior to the numbers being drawn, then he's gonna do some trick envelope thing where he gets someone to hold an envelope supposedly with the numbers in it, and then last minute he swaps it and opens it with one with the correct numbers in it.
Yes about 14 million times easier ;). But as I said before it'll be closer than 5 minutes. More like 2 minutes.
How Derren dresses up his stunts and how he "says" he does them isn't necessarily how he actually does them. Some of his other stunts have far far more benign truths behind them than what I've speculated for this. But we'll see on Friday..
I agree, the horse racing one was so easy, but because it wasn't obvious to most people, it seemed amazing. This is exactly how he does his tricks. He uses probability and statistics that wouldn't work without all the dressup and showmanship.
All his juggling onscreen (which wasn't his arm) is all part of the misdirection trick. If anyone else see's this advert again, have a look around the rest of the screen as I guarantee there is something else going on that isn't obvious. It's probably all there to see in his adverts and they are all part of the buildup, and required to make the show work.
I also heard he is going to make people stuck to their sofa.
Fatbloke
08-09-2009, 09:04
<object width="400" height="225"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=6457531&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=6457531&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="225"></embed></object>
Here you go - can't see anything else to be honest.
KennyVader
08-09-2009, 09:19
lol, if he was really able to predict the lottery, then he would travel the world doing so, especially on big Euromillions Fridays, after a couple of weeks he'd never have to do another crappy channel 4 show ever again!
I remember when he said he would show how to toss a coin and make it lands on heads, ten times in row. I couldn't wait to see it and he did show us. Basically think it took him 10 hours or something and basically just kept tossing the coin until he got ten heads in a row.
I felt robbed.
Dave
I reckon he won't actually predict the lottery numbers, more make us all believe that the numbers coming out of the draw are the ones he predicted ? Remember the 'winning' tickets at Walthamstow dogs ?
scoobyood
08-09-2009, 10:35
Is anyone here buying a lottery ticket for Wednesday? I'm gonna, might as well since I'll be watching the Lottery for the first time in a decade :lol: Having that tiny bit extra invested in it might be worthwhile as well.
Is anyone here buying a lottery ticket for Wednesday? I'm gonna, might as well since I'll be watching the Lottery for the first time in a decade :lol: Having that tiny bit extra invested in it might be worthwhile as well.
Might pick the numbers that were on the Lamp post in the original advert
lol, if he was really able to predict the lottery, then he would travel the world doing so, especially on big Euromillions Fridays, after a couple of weeks he'd never have to do another crappy channel 4 show ever again!
Euromillions apart, don't you need to be a resident of that country to be eligible to qualify for any winnings?
snevillio
08-09-2009, 11:25
What would be cool is if he picked the numbers, they all failed and then they all came up in next weeks draw...
The BBC have said that their isn't a delay on their broadcasts and the only trickery they employ is in the canned laughter. Really looking forwards to this!
johnrevill
08-09-2009, 11:57
I remember when he said he would show how to toss a coin and make it lands on heads, ten times in row. I couldn't wait to see it and he did show us. Basically think it took him 10 hours or something and basically just kept tossing the coin until he got ten heads in a row.
I felt robbed.
Dave
Ha ha - I thought that was brilliant when he revealed that. It did demonstrate that you are far better off not knowing how he does a trick!
welshmatt
08-09-2009, 12:03
Euromillions apart, don't you need to be a resident of that country to be eligible to qualify for any winnings?
Not sure about all lotteries but for many the ticket just has to be bought in the relevantc country. So even if you were a Brit you couldnt buy a ticket for our lottery online if you were outside the country at time of purchase.
no flipping
08-09-2009, 12:10
I remember when he said he would show how to toss a coin and make it lands on heads, ten times in row. I couldn't wait to see it and he did show us. Basically think it took him 10 hours or something and basically just kept tossing the coin until he got ten heads in a row.
I felt robbed.
Dave
:lol: class!
can there be any lag on the lottery broadcast? surely someone would have exploited that by now.
can there be any lag on the lottery broadcast? surely someone would have exploited that by now.
Terminals shut far before the draw don't they? Unless you mean placing a bet at the bookies on the lottery numbers:)
As somebody already said, t's got to be a substitution/sealed envelope thing hasn't it?
Fatbloke
08-09-2009, 13:52
It doesn't matter - doesn't the lottery tills close half hour (or is it a hour) before the draw?
scoobyood
08-09-2009, 14:08
As somebody already said, t's got to be a substitution/sealed envelope thing hasn't it?
That would be way lamer than my solution. He has to say what the numbers are going to be, before they are drawn live on the other channel, otherwise what's the point. We've seen that envelope trick a thousand times... "I've put my answers in this envelope which will not be touched and it won't leave the view of the 'live' camera for a second.. I swear!"
It doesn't matter - doesn't the lottery tills close half hour (or is it a hour) before the draw?
They stop selling tickets at 19:30pm. The draw isn't till 22:35... so 3 hours.
Yup, It's only half an hour on the Saturday draw I believe.
I felt robbed.
:lol:
I'm sure I would have worked it out. If not I would have felt enlightened on the practical application of probability theory and impressed at the effort he went to
So, dunno if I'll bother with this one.....
Cheers,
Stevie.
I predict you will ;)
He's probably going to do his mind control stuff on Dedicoat ;)
pigpicker
09-09-2009, 21:37
Why doesn't he do this on the Saturday lottery?
EVERYONE knows that the Wednesday one isn't worth bothering with! It only gets to a poxy couple of million.
Sorry Derren, but this just a cruddy variation on the sealed envelope trick.
Not good enough. :|
taylora98
09-09-2009, 21:43
OK folks. How was that done?
emeyedeejay
09-09-2009, 21:43
So he swapped them in? when? :thinking:
Wtf!!!
Sorry Derren, but this just a cruddy variation on the sealed envelope trick.
Not good enough. :|
Feel free to share the trick i could do with a couple of extra quid
emeyedeejay
09-09-2009, 21:44
OK folks. How was that done?
:wave:
This guys is sooo kool. He did a show at one of our work gatherings.
Oh please - that was totally lame. What a loser!
Okay, now that was impressive! :D
Ooooo...he wrote the numbers on a board first....wonder what the board did ?
taylora98
09-09-2009, 21:46
:wave:
Thought you might show up here dude..... :wave:
thescrounger
09-09-2009, 21:47
I don't watch much Derren Brown but I presume that was a camera trick.
It has to be something to do with the balls being swapped etc otherwise he would have had no problems in turning them round BEFORE the draw :doh:
stevie c
09-09-2009, 21:47
I predict you will ;)
He he... Are you Derren Brown in disguise? :lol:
Cheers,
Stevie.
RomerojpgX
09-09-2009, 21:47
If he knew, he would be a billlllllionare.
Magic tricks are so lame when it is explained how they did it, it's scary how crap these cons are on TV, you just feel cheated they are so poor.
Ooooo...he wrote the numbers on a board first....wonder what the board did ?
Would his balls be blank and perhaps when he was writing the numbers down on that pad somehow they were also being written on the row of balls :shrug:
thescrounger
09-09-2009, 21:49
It has to be something to do with the balls being swapped etc otherwise he would have had no problems in turning them round BEFORE the draw :doh:
Indeed, the camera wobble was suspicious. A split screen while somebody went and put the winning balls on the stand I guess.
no flipping
09-09-2009, 21:50
Would his balls be blank and perhaps when he was writing the numbers down on that pad somehow they were also being written on the row of balls :shrug:
ah - best suggestion so far! :thumbs:
maybe an invisible laser exists which can write numbers on ping pong balls
scoobyood
09-09-2009, 21:50
Did anyone bother to flick channels to check it?
As to how it was done.. why couldn't they turn the TV on till a certain time.... ;) Note the wording, the BBC has the rights to first broadcast of the lottery numbers.
We'll all watch on Friday to find out. I love Derren Brown, I don't care if his tricks are cons, he's such a bloody good showman.
rezabelady
09-09-2009, 21:51
Should have shown him writing the numbers on the balls live beforehand at least.
Even if it is a legal requirement that the BBC are first to announce the lotto result, he wasn't giving the result only his prediction so that doesn't seem a valid reason to wait until after the draw?
Did none of you impressed people groan when he said he couldn't actually say the numbers before the draw (complete with a rubbish "legally I can't announce it before the BBC" excuse)?
There are so many ways that he could have done that, it wouldn't surprise me if the way he "reveals" on Friday is a different method entirely.
thescrounger
09-09-2009, 21:53
ah - best suggestion so far! :thumbs:
I'm sure my suggestion is what happened.
The BBC has the rights to first broadcast of the lottery numbers.
That was his excuse for not revealing the numbers till after the draw. There's nothing stopping him showing the numbers prior to the draw as all it would have been is a genuine prediction rather than the magic trick we got.
no flipping
09-09-2009, 21:54
We'll all watch on Friday to find out. I love Derren Brown, I don't care if his tricks are cons, he's such a bloody good showman.
he is indeed - always seems to be working too!
Did none of you impressed people groan when he said he couldn't actually say the numbers before the draw (complete with a rubbish "legally I can't announce it before the BBC" excuse)?
Sure did, but still intrigued all the same
There are so many ways that he could have done that, it wouldn't surprise me if the way he "reveals" on Friday is a different method entirely.
I expect the same thing. He'll only show you want he wants you to know, not what actually happened, as it may then scupper future "events"
emeyedeejay
09-09-2009, 21:56
The whole "legally I can;t show the lottery numbers first" is what makes it a bit less real for me ... how can they be "the" lottery numbers before "the" lottery numbers have been drawn ?
Before the draw they are 5 random numbers scribbled on ping pong balls (or not as the case may be) by a guy - I can't see any problem with showing them in advance :shrug:
"The" lottery numbers don't exist until the draw completes :thinking:
Anyway - regardless of the fact that it is clearly a trick I agree that he is a fantastic showman...
The reveal will be just as disappointing as the trick.
I haven't watched that much of Brown but he's nothing really special as regards a showman (Paul Daniels was better :D). Maybe I need to see more of him.
Would his balls be blank and perhaps when he was writing the numbers down on that pad somehow they were also being written on the row of balls :shrug:
There was a clipboard being sold some time ago which essentaily enables wireless signals to be transmitted to a "recieving station". DB endorsed the product and then the endorsements dissapeared once it was found.
As soon as there is another step from teh numbers being read out you are pretty sure that is where the deception appears. Also check his handwriting. What he writes looks overly complicated for the numbers written down.
I don't believe camera tricks were involved at all. My best guesss is the board acitvated some kind os spray mechanisim within the stand. The stand looked very strange. And diversionay. "Let's make it look see through etc ".
It was pure showmanship. Layers of acting put on. I thik he will come out with a convoluted explanation on how he did it and I bet it won't be the board :)
Did none of you impressed people groan when he said he couldn't actually say the numbers before the draw (complete with a rubbish "legally I can't announce it before the BBC" excuse)?
There are so many ways that he could have done that, it wouldn't surprise me if the way he "reveals" on Friday is a different method entirely.
Well, statto maybe offering your prediction as to how he's done it and if on Friday you turn out to be correct we can all marvel at your wonderfulness. ;)
RomerojpgX
09-09-2009, 21:56
Next up he will be flying like Superman, but really its just a CGI effect and editing when he reveals it, bland con work like this is just not entertainment at all.
It's all misdirection anyway, he said that's what these "events" are about. Just enjoy the showmanship you miserable lot and be glad there is someone who still bothers to try stuff like this on this kind of scale!
pigpicker
09-09-2009, 21:58
Did anyone bother to flick channels to check it?
As to how it was done.. why couldn't they turn the TV on till a certain time.... ;) Note the wording, the BBC has the rights to first broadcast of the lottery numbers.
In that case he must have been sure that he was going to get them right because if he had any doubt then he would ...
er ... :thinking:
I've lost my point ...
emeyedeejay
09-09-2009, 22:00
Next up he will be flying like Superman, but really its just a CGI effect and editing when he reveals it, bland con work like this is just not entertainment at all.
And yet you watched it :D
thescrounger
09-09-2009, 22:02
As I say I don't watch much of DB, but I know exactly how I would pull off that trick and presume it's what he's done.
As I say I don't watch much of DB, but I know exactly how I would pull off that trick and presume it's what he's done.
Personaly I don't think he would do something like that. Its too tacky and anyone can do it.
36Degrees
09-09-2009, 22:06
I'm going for a light transmitted up the tube* to display the numbers right after the draw
After all, The Event (thing on Friday) was recorded at the Science museum !
*Disclaimer : I have no idea if this is possible.
thescrounger
09-09-2009, 22:06
Personaly I don't think he would do something like that. Its too tacky and anyone can do it.
But no one has done it, until now.
scoobyood
09-09-2009, 22:08
Would his balls be blank and perhaps when he was writing the numbers down on that pad somehow they were also being written on the row of balls :shrug:
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9931/fullscreencapture090920.jpg (http://img100.imageshack.us/i/fullscreencapture090920.jpg/)
Mayyyybbbee.. though it seems unlikely. He moves them and they look solid. I thought the box they were in might have had a mirror on the front and the balls were actually below, so they could be moved.. but that doesn't look the case when he rotates the box. Maybe they are expensive wireless OLED displays! That'd do it.
Well, statto maybe offering your prediction as to how he's done it and if on Friday you turn out to be correct we can all marvel at your wonderfulness. ;)
Most obvious method: Camera trick.
Another method: Trick balls (maybe chemically reacting as another person types the numbers as they're drawn).
Yet another method: Trick stand (casting/spraying image onto the balls).
As I said previously though, I would be willing to bet that the way he did it isn't the way he'll be revealing Friday.
But no one has done it, until now.
I mean use camera tricks in general. Not in this specific deception.
scoobyood
09-09-2009, 22:11
Hold the phone! .... look at his little finger. :eek: Mirror!
edit: Scratch that it's the plastic tube :lol:
emeyedeejay
09-09-2009, 22:13
:lol:
heat sensative balls (like the no ink reciepts) and an invisible laser printing the numbers to them.
just an idea.
Regarding the split screen camera trickery theories - would Derren not disappear if he stepped into the left half of the screen if this was the case?
Or are we saying they 'layered on' a pre-recorded segment of the lefthand side of the screen on top of the live footage only whilst Derren wrote the numbers down and someone ran in and changed the balls?
If you look closely there is a speck of dirt above and to the left of his t.v. screen, which seems to disappear as the results are announced and then reappears again.
Cant remember now, but were the balls in shot as the numbers were being drawn, and then as he wrote them on the board?
Definitely something to do with that board he wrote numbers on.
thescrounger
09-09-2009, 22:19
I mean use camera tricks in general. Not in this specific deception.
Maybe, but that is one way it could be achieved.
thescrounger
09-09-2009, 22:21
Regarding the split screen camera trickery theories - would Derren not disappear if he stepped into the left half of the screen if this was the case?
Yes if he decided to walk over to the left, which he didn't do until the balls had been switched.
Or are we saying they 'layered on' a pre-recorded segment of the lefthand side of the screen on top of the live footage only whilst Derren wrote the numbers down and someone ran in and changed the balls?
Yes, that's what I'm saying.
Maybe it was "real" magic!
**Shaazzaaammm**
A camera trick is the obvious answer to me. The balls are on a stand in a holder where it's easy to replace them in the same position, the camera wobbles to disguise things and it's done with no audience.
Ooh, I guess the camera could also have been motioned controlled as well - so that the 'pre-recorded' footage of the lefthand side matched the wobbles of the live footage :thumbs:
scoobyood
09-09-2009, 22:27
If you look closely there is a speck of dirt above and to the left of his t.v. screen, which seems to disappear as the results are announced and then reappears again.
Nope. That spec of dirt is there all the time, when the camera zooms out slightly it moves down as the lens shifts. I watched it with my eyes locked on the left of the screen. Couldn't see anything fishy. The camera movement is erratic and slightly artificial like it's post process... but that effect in motion or similar software is usually smoother. hmmmm, it's a thinker for sure.
emeyedeejay
09-09-2009, 22:30
The slight camera motion looks like an effect of the "free standing" camera man (probably a more correct technical term :nuts:) - it's the camera being carried by the cameraman that followed him in as he walked across the room...
thescrounger
09-09-2009, 22:30
Ooh, I guess the camera could also have been motioned controlled as well - so that the 'pre-recorded' footage of the lefthand side matched the wobbles of the live footage :thumbs:
Yeah, although they wouldn't be motion controlled. The camera would just be locked off completely still and video wobble effect is added with software.
goonerforever
09-09-2009, 22:32
Did anyone bother to flick channels to check it?
As to how it was done.. why couldn't they turn the TV on till a certain time.... ;) Note the wording, the BBC has the rights to first broadcast of the lottery numbers.
I did flick channels and it was pretty much dead on other than the gap between my Sky box changing channels :)
robbie99
09-09-2009, 22:37
there have been camera tricks in the adverts for "the events", which could be a clue?
For those who didn't see it:
<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kMIzR6GNAXw&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kMIzR6GNAXw&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
scoobyood
09-09-2009, 22:41
The way I would do it to have 6 really long pipes that come out of the far wall. The pipe would be perfectly hidden behind the balls and they would extend right up to the balls.. but what we see from the front aren't full balls. They are super thin half balls and as the correct ball is fired down the pipe it comes to a stop in the half ball. Then the pipes retract... robert's your father's brother.
... just throwing out ideas :D
Ok here's another one. He keeps his hand over his mouth for the five numbers.His right hand is out of sight as well all the time. Microphone to a stooge rigging the balls ?
Ok here's another one. He keeps his hand over his mouth for the five numbers.His right hand is out of sight as well all the time. Microphone to a stooge rigging the balls ?
Either that or it meant they could turn off his mic so that it didn't pick up any ball jiggling noises :suspect:
For those who didn't see it:
<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kMIzR6GNAXw&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kMIzR6GNAXw&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
At 2.05 the camera suddenly freezes for 3 or 4 seconds right before Derren moves over to reveal the numbers....
scoobyood
09-09-2009, 22:56
Ok here's another one. He keeps his hand over his mouth for the five numbers.His right hand is out of sight as well all the time. Microphone to a stooge rigging the balls ?
Well any assistant could just look at the TV or some one else could tell him.. it'd be a bit silly for Derren to do that while on camera. I agree that was another "oddity" of it. Jonathan Creek would have this all wrapped up with all these clues... I just can't quite put my finger on it. Something doesn't sit right. :thinking:
cjanderson
09-09-2009, 22:57
i will go for tiny ink sprays or stamps in the stand thing that imprints the numbers on the balls as they are drawn. or a lazer pen that burns the numbers from behind.
its clever anyway.
MetalGearAl
09-09-2009, 22:59
Why would he need a mic to tell them, don't they have a TV? :p
thescrounger
09-09-2009, 23:02
He might make up some ******** about how he did it (to make himself look good), but really it was just camera trickery.
Interesting. I love Derren's shows.
The stage show beforehand was brilliant.
The slight camera motion looks like an effect of the "free standing" camera man (probably a more correct technical term :nuts:) - it's the camera being carried by the cameraman that followed him in as he walked across the room...
The footage of him walking in was handheld, but there was a cut when he waved to the other camera in the corner. When it cut back to him upclose I suspect it was no longer the handheld camera. Maybe another one set up out of view, with a good zoom :)
scoobyood
09-09-2009, 23:08
He might make up some ******** about how he did it (to make himself look good), but really it was just camera trickery.
Well the point of the Friday show is to show us how we can do it ourselves, so if we can't it'll be a crap show. Showmanship/Entertainment fail. I'll be out Friday so will have to record it... dam life getting in the way of tv. :razz:
emeyedeejay
09-09-2009, 23:14
At 2.05 the camera suddenly freezes for 3 or 4 seconds right before Derren moves over the reveal the numbers....
It's less than 3/4 seconds I think but there is a definite freeze of the camera wobble there as you say - stand out quite bit when you are looking for it...
EDIT: actually - it is 3-4 seconds :D
You can see when they do the split screen switch. Look at the left most ball in the stand, when Derren says 23 it rises up slightly.
robbie99
10-09-2009, 00:07
As the numbers start to be drawn the volume from the bbc seems to go up as derren puts his hand over his mouth and doesnt speak, I presume at this time the sound is totally the bbc feed so as not to hear any noise from the floor. I also think the writting of the numbers on the card is just to give them extra time after the draw so ensure everything is set up and aligned etc. The the left hand pic is switched during the static periord (or during the wobble just before it)
joconnor
10-09-2009, 00:46
It's definitely split screen.
Example:
Watch this
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qO1tydZke-o&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qO1tydZke-o&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
then this
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UbvngiztFVk&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UbvngiztFVk&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Seems pretty obvious to me that with statements like thats 1 year of my life he has actually shot every single permutation of the lottery results (how long would that take lol) and the footage is switched when he moves over to the stand. So no matter what the lottery numbers thrown up it would JUST be a matter of switching to that footage.
Did he not say he might only get 5 out of the 6 correct so maybe got bored and chanced he would have the footage "in the can".
i will go for tiny ink sprays or stamps in the stand thing that imprints the numbers on the balls as they are drawn. or a lazer pen that burns the numbers from behind.
Then how do you explain him writing the same numbers on a board with a pen in full view?
I doubt it would be the wifi ink as the number 2 ball would have read 2 on the ball not 02 as he wrote it as just 2.
cjanderson
10-09-2009, 06:52
he writes it on the board, someone reads the board and types those numbers into some CLEVER MACHINE TM
its either that or the whole camera is live on one side, darren had already acted "watching the lottery numbers" and that bits filmed, then they switch back to life after the numbers drawn and the balls swapped into place.
Its very clever, has us all wondering how its done.
And if you think its not clever and just stupid. well why bother watching? the point is that he isn't phsyic, but has done something clever (be it ink on balls or time switching cameras) to make us think he is.
If its a camera trick what would be the point? Anyone could do that.
Has he used camera tricks in the past?
kohoutec
10-09-2009, 06:55
Then how do you explain him writing the same numbers on a board with a pen in full view?
I don't see the relevance of this? He wrote the numbers down after they were drawn, so nothing special there at all
MetalGearAl
10-09-2009, 07:04
You can see when they do the split screen switch. Look at the left most ball in the stand, when Derren says 23 it rises up slightly.
That looks odd but how does that indicate a split screen switch? He's already turned them around at that point!
I thought it looked odd at first but I Think it's just because they're tightly packed in, when he pushed one in it moved one of the others up.
rbullivant
10-09-2009, 07:15
What he should have done is bought a lottery ticket with all the numbers -1 on the ticket, then i would be impressed. Lets be honest, there is no way he can actually guess the numbers or he would have done it before and made some money. The man is just a fraud, he didn't predict the numbers like he said he would
R
cjanderson
10-09-2009, 07:30
What he should have done is bought a lottery ticket with all the numbers -1 on the ticket, then i would be impressed. Lets be honest, there is no way he can actually guess the numbers or he would have done it before and made some money. The man is just a fraud, he didn't predict the numbers like he said he would
R
you mean he isn't actually physic :eek: and there is some trickery involved :eek:
badgerprincess
10-09-2009, 07:30
Clues in his advert for the event IMO. I wouldnt be surprised if its split screen, if you watch the advert of him juggling, that is split screen I think. Its weird as Im sure he doesnt use camera tricks as anyone can do that...
I wouldnt call him a fraud, however, as hes anti-con artists, the idiots who con money out of people pretending they can speak to your dead relatives etc.
MetalGearAl
10-09-2009, 08:00
you mean he isn't actually physic :eek: and there is some trickery involved :eek:
:lol:
I'd consider reading his book rbullivant if you'd like to know more about what he does and what he believes in. I don't think he could ever be described as a "fraud". He doesn't claim he's psychic, he just puts on a show!
Indeed, the camera wobble was suspicious. A split screen while somebody went and put the winning balls on the stand I guess.
Exactly what I was thinking - there was no need for the wobble, it was there as some form of disguise - the split screen trick is what I told the missus as it was happening. He had a camera on the white card above, someone swapped the balls out and the split screen was returned to normal when the draw was finished.
I'm hoping it is less obvious and more intelligent.
the legal thing was rubbish excuse, if he had announced it 30 minutes before it would be a prediction and not the official result so the bbc having first rights to announce is irrelivent as it wouldnt of been drawn yet.
MetalGearAl
10-09-2009, 08:05
A split screen is certainly how it was done, but yes it'd be a shame if that's how. They can't really string that out to a whole show on Friday will they? Unless he does a load of guff about trying to narrow down the possibilites, etc. it didn't work so they changed to split screen.
If it wasn't a split screen, it's a shame they didn't have a fountain or something in the background moving to help show that it couldn't have been that. The fact they didn't though does seem to suggest it's what they did.
I've changed my mind - after seeing him learn the london street guide the way he did, I believe he did every permutation of the lottery results and switched to that footage at the end. Failing that, they used a split screen.
It'll be something like that horse racing thing. He's had to do a lot of work for this IMO, but when we see it, it will be simple, but a lot of work and time on his part.
campdave
10-09-2009, 08:14
I've changed my mind - after seeing him learn the london street guide the way he did, I believe he did every permutation of the lottery results
That would be millions of permutations. Pull the other one.
MetalGearAl
10-09-2009, 08:28
You couldn't even write down every permuatation without going mad, let alone film them, it just couldn't be done.
That would be millions of permutations. Pull the other one.
~ 14 million to be precise. :thumbs:
TheFatBoy
10-09-2009, 08:32
There are 13,983,816 different results. Assuming the managed to set up and film each permutation in 20 minutes, and continued non-stop, that'd be 4,661,272 hours, or 532 years.
I'm guessing he didn't do that.
I hope it isn't, but I suspect it's a simple camera trick. It wouldn't need to be complex, he stalls for time looking all flustered and writing the numbers down while off-screen, someone else is watching the BBC and picking out the correct ping-pong balls. I would think the top of the stand would be just wide enough to fit the balls in exactly so there's no movement there and when the screen holds for those 3/4 seconds, someone swaps the holder out. That's how I'd do it.
I still think Derren Brown is an extraordinary entertainer though - and he's never claimed to be psychic, quite the opposite.
He did say his apartment had been full of lottery balls for months.... :D
I am sure the answer will be both very obvious and very clever/funny.
That looks odd but how does that indicate a split screen switch? He's already turned them around at that point!
I thought it looked odd at first but I Think it's just because they're tightly packed in, when he pushed one in it moved one of the others up.
I'm talking about the bit where the stand is on the left hand side of the screen and he is on the right writing down and reading out the numbers just after they have been announced. When he says 23, the left most ball in the stand jumps up slightly. You have to look closely but it definitely happens, and that ball is also slightly raised when he comes to turn the stand around.
emeyedeejay
10-09-2009, 09:10
Going to be very disappointed if this turns our to be camera trickery - I'll certainly not be interested to watch any more of him if he's resorting to that...
daboy3000
10-09-2009, 09:12
I swear some of you have forgotten what entertainment is because you've spent too long watching Xfactor and big brother.
Yes it was a trick, this is what the man does for a living. Its all about misdirection. He did not GUESS the lottery numbers, he only made it look like he did and that is what the illusion is all about. Its also has nothing to do with a delay between broadcasting times or anything unpredictable. There was no luck envolved as he wouldn't have done the show if there was a chance to get it wrong.
I'm not claiming to know how he does it but having watched most of his shows both on tv and live and reading his books i get an idea of what he's all about.
Nick dVl
10-09-2009, 09:12
I reckon CGI trickery. The balls each have a blue square on them where the numbers are overlayed, sort of like augmented reality.
If he was really predicting the numbers, he could have shown the numbers he chose before they were revealed on the BBC (any legal argument to the contrary is bogus).
glowingcactus
10-09-2009, 09:21
I'm talking about the bit where the stand is on the left hand side of the screen and he is on the right writing down and reading out the numbers just after they have been announced. When he says 23, the left most ball in the stand jumps up slightly. You have to look closely but it definitely happens, and that ball is also slightly raised when he comes to turn the stand around.
Yes. I am sure you have nailed it. Just viewed it in HQ directly on the YouTube page quoted earlier.
Used MacOSX Leopard built-in screen zoom facility: go to about 1min.57 start play then zoom right in (if you have Leopard, ctrl- mouse scroll wheel, move the mouse to locate the area you want). To confirm left most ball movement, look at the bottom of the ball as well as the top. The dark gaps either side grow slightly. The top is higher than the rest of the row. The 'movement' is when the wipe or blend from pre-recorded, maybe static left half is made. (initially static left half with live right half, to live full frame). Hand-on-mouth is during studio silence part, with BBC audio only (imagine the sound of a dropped ping-pong ball bouncing or squeaky trainer shoe).
The writing on the card maybe adds some time for the (hidden) placing of the balls, but it is also to give viewers a quick comparison to verify that the numbers are the same. Everything in the background cables etc is strictly left undisturbed (Maybe even glued to floor). Lighting is also key. It has to be identical for the two halves and no moving shadows from DB must encroach on to the left. The camera wobble is rigorously programmed either on a kinetic camera base or electronically. Not sure which is easier.
He would have done this several times but only to rehearse every aspect of the act, studio set-up, finding the possible things that go wrong with times and mixing crew till it is visually perfect. I bet he is annoyed with who ever placed that left ball which would have been the last to be placed and perhaps the closest to the times-up, maybe nerves or maybe that is an intended 'tell'.
All the rest is just patter and verbal misdirection, a distraction. No year of his life lost. No problems with BBC etc. Remains to be seen if he invents something for Friday or confesses to using camera tricks.
emeyedeejay
10-09-2009, 09:24
I swear some of you have forgotten what entertainment is because you've spent too long watching Xfactor and big brother.
Yes it was a trick, this is what the man does for a living. Its all about misdirection. He did not GUESS the lottery numbers, he only made it look like he did and that is what the illusion is all about. Its also has nothing to do with a delay between broadcasting times or anything unpredictable. There was no luck envolved as he wouldn't have done the show if there was a chance to get it wrong.
I'm not claiming to know how he does it but having watched most of his shows both on tv and live and reading his books i get an idea of what he's all about.
Not sure if that was directed at my post or not but if so - I absolutely agree with you - I enjoy watching his shows ... i think his techniques and abilities re "phschology" and misdirection etc. are fascinating.
And yes - there is obviously "trickery" involved - all I was saying is I hope the trickery/misdirection etc. does not turn out to be a camera trick/split screen or anything along those lines - that would be a disappointment for me personally...
daboy3000
10-09-2009, 09:29
Not sure if that was directed at my post or not but if so - I absolutely agree with you - I enjoy watching his shows ... i think his techniques and abilities re "phschology" and misdirection etc. are fascinating.
No mate, was not directed at you, started writing it before you posted and i am no Derren Brown!
Think how many illustionists/magicians use mirrors, not much difference between that and camera trickery.
AndyWilson
10-09-2009, 09:31
Has he used camera tricks before?
I know he has used technological trickery before so my bet's on wifi balls....
daboy3000
10-09-2009, 09:35
Has he used camera tricks before?
I know he has used technological trickery before so my bet's on wifi balls....
Balls with little lcd displays or trained ants! :cuckoo:
MetalGearAl
10-09-2009, 09:47
Not sure if that was directed at my post or not but if so - I absolutely agree with you - I enjoy watching his shows ... i think his techniques and abilities re "phschology" and misdirection etc. are fascinating.
And yes - there is obviously "trickery" involved - all I was saying is I hope the trickery/misdirection etc. does not turn out to be a camera trick/split screen or anything along those lines - that would be a disappointment for me personally...
Exactly. People love the show and DB not because he has "magical powers", he's just a guy who's put his life's work into understanding how the brain works and how to exploit it for entertainment. He's no different to a magician really, just a lot of his tricks are more pyschological rather than physical trickery (though he uses that too).
This is why I love the claims that he's a fraud. I wonder if the same people would yell out FRAUD! if they found out that Paul Daniels has never really sawn a woman in half.
I wonder if the same people would yell out FRAUD! if they found out that Paul Daniels has never really sawn a woman in half.
That sums it up for me :thumbs: Brown's an excellent entertainer
robbie99
10-09-2009, 09:57
Has he used camera tricks before?
I know he has used technological trickery before so my bet's on wifi balls....
The backwards walking across the road advert is full of camera tricks.
maddogsuk
10-09-2009, 10:04
Regardless if this was Camera Trickery or whatever, in my opinion the show has done exactly what Channel 4 wanted, to get people talking and tuning in of Friday.
Why would it be some kind of complicated wifi-laser-etch-a-sketching-cgi-device?
Occam's razor people! It'll be relatively simple.
LastoftheFraggles
10-09-2009, 10:19
The event was titled 'how to win the lottery' so whatever it is has to be something repeatable by the viewer to fulfil that requirement. On Friday he is going to tell us how we can do it too.
That being the case I would imagine its more to do with probabilities and playing every available option. 6 numbers is 14m combinations, but he only promised to get 5 which is much less.
If its just a camera trick and picking the numbers after the event then he hasn't really fulfilled his promise to show us how to win the lottery.
daboy3000
10-09-2009, 10:22
The event was titled 'how to win the lottery' so whatever it is has to be something repeatable by the viewer to fulfil that requirement. On Friday he is going to tell us how we can do it too.
That being the case I would imagine its more to do with probabilities and playing every available option. 6 numbers is 14m combinations, but he only promised to get 5 which is much less.
If its just a camera trick and picking the numbers after the event then he hasn't really fulfilled his promise to show us how to win the lottery.
Ok, so you think on friday we will all be able to copy him and win the saturday draw, which ofcourse will be split between 15 million other DB fans! :cuckoo:
Lets be honest, there is no way he can actually guess the numbers or he would have done it before and made some money. The man is just a fraud, he didn't predict the numbers like he said he would
R
Genius :brickwall
I've been speaking to a friend who does mentalisim for corporate events, weddings, parties etc. He's not sure about how it was done but the biggest red flag for him was there was no audience.The fact that you cannot see what is going on elsewhere makes him believe there is manipulation by a third party going on. They had the oppotunity to show the locked off camera the whole time, like a split screen . The reveal will show the trick from that camera.
glowingcactus
10-09-2009, 10:44
I am not calling fraud either.
DB is what he is. He is an entertainer.
We want to be entertained. I think he is very good at it.
It is all about The "Wow! How did he do that?"
But 'magic' is in only our heads. That is the awful truth.
Some of the audience will inevitably respond with "I think I know how he did that" and will also extract enjoyment working it out. It must be tough for DB to come up with stunts that can withstand examination by today's well equipped and connected punters. However this only forces him to improve the standard of his act, a win for everyone.
Think of the caged bird trick at the beginning of the film The Prestige (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=2&url=http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/1871246/The-Prestige/Product.html). Most people are shown in that film to believe that the bird magically escapes the crushed cage into to the safety of the hand of the performer. Some believe in pure magic. Some believe there was a trick, hidden strings or pockets and slight of hand. One person (a boy) realised the awful truth that the bird was simply killed in exchange for a few seconds entertainment and another bird later substituted, relying on killing being so awful a concept that it does not even enter the subconscious list of possibilities.
I am not suggesting that anything is killed in DB's acts. Just that very little is out of bounds when it comes to this form of entertainment. For some people camera tricks are a bit of a cheap trick, even not permitted.
I think last night was a cool camera trick well executed with many elements of distraction, but I wonder how many times can DB use split-video-screen again? Maybe he is exploiting the fact that this is a cheap trick, that it can only be used once and so he may well as be the one that grabs that chance to use it and to nail the door shut on it when he reveals it as a camera trick on Friday. Maybe he wants us to believe he will never do that again. Useful in the long term.
I do expect DB to play any mind game he can.
I bloody well forgot this, so just checked it out on youtube. No matter what the result (and yes, i'm sure it's a trick) the guy is a great showman, and I love events like this. It always amuses me when people cry "fraud" over an entertainer.
As for Friday's reveal, surely it has to be relatively simple? He's said it's something people can maybe do themselves, so although it's likely a clever trick, I would have thought that rules out the more complex, technical trickery suggested on here.
What he should have done is bought a lottery ticket with all the numbers -1 on the ticket, then i would be impressed. Lets be honest, there is no way he can actually guess the numbers or he would have done it before and made some money. The man is just a fraud, he didn't predict the numbers like he said he would
R
The events are all centred around misdirection so that suggests that they are all going to be tricks.:thumbs:
LastoftheFraggles
10-09-2009, 10:53
Ok, so you think on friday we will all be able to copy him and win the saturday draw, which ofcourse will be split between 15 million other DB fans! :cuckoo:
Where have you got this from?
All i said is that the method he used to 'predict' the numbers has to be some kind of prediction, like he did with the horse racing thing.
Not that the system would actual be practical.
Technically you could win at the horses by betting on every horse. Technically you can win the lottery by betting on enough combinations.
Wouldn't make sense to do it but it would fulfil the description he gave.
Using a camera trick while my mate fiddles the balls to show the numbers that are already picked doesn't really fulfil the criteria - nor does it sound very Derren Brown-ish.
I don;t think it'll be anything complicated, that would defeat the purpose. It'll be so simple, you'll kick yourself.
I reckon CGI trickery. The balls each have a blue square on them where the numbers are overlayed, sort of like augmented reality.
If he was really predicting the numbers, he could have shown the numbers he chose before they were revealed on the BBC (any legal argument to the contrary is bogus).
CGI would be a total letdown for the public so I doubt it's that.
It looks more and more like a camera trick tbh.
LastoftheFraggles
10-09-2009, 11:02
CGI would be a total letdown for the public so I doubt it's that.
It looks more and more like a camera trick tbh.
Camera trick is the obvious answer but I hope it isn't.
Part of the attraction of DB's 'magic' is that he is a highly skilled and talented magician who does things that the average Joe couldn't do.
If it is just a camera trick then there is no skill involved and it will be a bit of a let down.
Camera trick is the obvious answer but I hope it isn't.
Part of the attraction of DB's 'magic' is that he is a highly skilled and talented magician who does things that the average Joe couldn't do.
If it is just a camera trick then there is no skill involved and it will be a bit of a let down.
I hope so too.
Will be interesting to see what he comes up with on Friday.
MetalGearAl
10-09-2009, 11:06
Using a camera trick while my mate fiddles the balls to show the numbers that are already picked doesn't really fulfil the criteria - nor does it sound very Derren Brown-ish.
That's why I don't think it'll be a camera trick. It certainly could have been done that way but it's just not his style or entertaining enough.
Nick dVl
10-09-2009, 11:09
If it is a camera trick, it's a really good camera trick to be done so seamlessly in a live environment (with the exception of the suspicious rising ball on the left).
But like I said, I'd be more amazed if he actually showed his prediction a minute or two before they drew the balls. It's not like someone can buy a ticket within that time - don't they close about 30 minutes before the draw or something?
LastoftheFraggles
10-09-2009, 11:14
If it is a camera trick, it's a really good camera trick to be done so seamlessly in a live environment (with the exception of the suspicious rising ball on the left).
But like I said, I'd be more amazed if he actually showed his prediction a minute or two before they drew the balls. It's not like someone can buy a ticket within that time - don't they close about 30 minutes before the draw or something?
Think we'd all be amazed. That would be impossible though.
The fact that there was no audience points to some dodgy goings on on the left side of the stage where the balls where.
If there was a live audeince then that would have made it more interesting.
glowingcactus
10-09-2009, 11:23
There is no doubt in my mind that this was a split screen camera trick.
What is more interesting question is what will he claim on Friday?
I've changed my mind - after seeing him learn the london street guide the way he did, I believe he did every permutation of the lottery results and switched to that footage at the end. Failing that, they used a split screen.
First of all, he never learned the london a-z - he just said he did, and he lied about it.*
Secondly, there are over 14 million permutations of the lottery results. If he spent a whole year doing nothing but that he would have to film over 38000 versions every day, which is just under 1600 every hour, or just over 26 every minute.
Pretty much everything he says is a lie, and most of the time when he tells you how he did something he isn't telling you the real way. It's all part of his showmanship, and people falling for his tricks, then falling for his explanations, pretty much confirms his comments about how gullible people are and how willing they are to believe.
*I can let you know how he really did it if you want to know.
maddogsuk
10-09-2009, 11:43
*I can let you know how he really did it if you want to know.Go on then, but use spoilers :thumbs:
*I can let you know how he really did it if you want to know.
Tell.:D
cjanderson
10-09-2009, 11:48
Why would it be some kind of complicated wifi-laser-etch-a-sketching-cgi-device?
Occam's razor people! It'll be relatively simple.
i thought that was fairly simple :D numbers are drawn, someone writes them using "some modern tech" on the balls. no camera trickery involved. :D
Sinbad the Sailor
10-09-2009, 11:59
He DIDN'T predict the lottery result, that's the first part of the trick, the first misdirection. He showed the numbers AFTER they'd been picked. The second part of the trick is the misdirection to get those numbered balls showing the numbers that had already been picked - pretty difficult without camera tricks or ink jet printers.
Mind you much better then a guess the card, when the card has already been "forced" on the punter.
DanWilde1966
10-09-2009, 12:00
If this was for real, Brown would have bought a Lotto ticket with those numbers on, collected the prize money and then donated it to charity. Wouldn't a verifiably winning ticket be more potent evidence of "guessing" the numbers than this party trick?
The moving left ball...
http://i28.tinypic.com/ehmzvp.gif
TheFatBoy
10-09-2009, 12:07
While I still think it's a camera trick, I don't think that movement proves it, not taken from a compressed stream over the net. Anybody kept the original? Is the movement there?
Even taken from a youtube vid, the movement's still as clear as day. Try lining up a ruler along the top of the balls throughout the vid (I suspect the camera wobble was meant to deter this).
scoobyood
10-09-2009, 12:14
The moving left ball...
http://i28.tinypic.com/ehmzvp.gif
That looks pretty convincing...
All that work, the person who did the switch must be kicking themselves. Aside from that it's flawless. Could have done with less camera shake though.
the ball's still raised when he turns them around as well..
http://i30.tinypic.com/f0dk5e.jpg
TheFatBoy
10-09-2009, 12:17
Even taken from a youtube vid, the movement's still as clear as day. Try lining up a ruler along the top of the balls throughout the vid (I suspect the camera wobble was meant to deter this).
Yes, movement is clear as day, but the combination of the camera zooming/panning plus the inherent Youtube crapness means I don't think you can say that the ball is actually moving - after all, it's only a few pixels, easily enough of a difference to be generated by the compression.
Not unless you've got it saved on Sky+ and can tell us differently.
EDIT: Sneeka's picture makes the video MUCH more convincing.
LastoftheFraggles
10-09-2009, 12:21
If this was for real, Brown would have bought a Lotto ticket with those numbers on, collected the prize money and then donated it to charity. Wouldn't a verifiably winning ticket be more potent evidence of "guessing" the numbers than this party trick?
If magic was for real there would be a lot of women chopped in half and/or full of sword holes etc.
glowingcactus
10-09-2009, 12:22
You can watched it all again on c4 site.
link (http://www.channel4.com/programmes/derren-brown/4od#2935221)
More evidence:
Remember he always lies and for a reason.
So at the start he says there are just two camera men in here.
The hand-held camera filming him walking in and the one at the back.
A necessary Lie.
As soon as he says hello to the back this we cut to to this distant back camera, briefly showing the hand-held camera man filming DB.
We then cut back to what looks as if this is the hand-held camera again but in fact we don't. Its now a third camera in a precise location with simulated wobble set further back in the studio behind the orange chairs. The hand held guy is now legging it out of shot.
Proof? If you pause the C4 video at about 51s, take a screenshot and compare this to a scrrenshot at 54s (third camera) you will see it a different lens and a slightly different view.
1) the real hand held has lens distortion of a wider angle lens (eg vetical lines bent on edges of shot) and is positioned closer and to the leftish side, wobble is due to human camera hold
2) the 3rd camera has no such distortion as it is a zoomed in lens to make it look as if it was a similar distance to the TV and balls. It has a wobble that is artificial hand-held, psudo random about a fixed point.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rqAt2akPHJ8&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rqAt2akPHJ8&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Remember he always lies and for a reason.
So at the start he says there are just two camera men in here.
The hand-held camera filming him walking in and the one at the back.
A necessary Lie.
Did he say cameramen? If so, he's probably not lying. The third camera is probably computer controlled ;)
I can tell you exactly how he did it, but only a few minutes after he tells us.
That's how it works. :)
ascender
10-09-2009, 12:32
I swear some of you have forgotten what entertainment is because you've spent too long watching Xfactor and big brother.
Exactly. What did people expect from this show? For him to reveal he really is the second coming of Jesus and had bought a lottery ticket for it beforehand. Cut to him afterwards sitting in a big bath of coke, surrounded by a gang of high-class hookers lighting his cigar, pouring him champagne etc. He's a show-man, just enjoy his programmes for what they are and if they make you think a bit, trying to work things out, then all the better.
Some of the posts early on are like the ones you get in music threads where there's a new album out or tour announced and you get people posting in it to say just how crap they think the artist is. Why bother?
Bizarre.
glowingcactus
10-09-2009, 12:33
Did he say cameramen? If so, he's probably not lying. The third camera is probably computer controlled ;)
No he says:
"For security reasons and so that nobody else benefits from what I am doing here there is just me and two camera men in here. "
He then reinforces two by saying hello to just two cameras.
While I still think it's a camera trick, I don't think that movement proves it, not taken from a compressed stream over the net. Anybody kept the original? Is the movement there?
Someone pointed it out on another forum but I checked my freeview recording and it's still there, also when he turns the balls round at the end that one is still raised up. I tried to check at the beginning of the recording but he doesn't go close to the balls there.
He's made it so obvious with the lack of audience and the fake camera shake that this must be what he wants us to think. Maybe his point is that people still believed him despite so many obvious signs.
dean richardson
10-09-2009, 12:36
he did somethng similar in his stage show on TV last night.
there is a box suspended throught on stage and at the end of the show the reveal is it contains details on the show and the audience.
Its just misdirection (last night he collapsed doing the oracle trick) and it gets switched.
more of the same again probably.
ascender
10-09-2009, 12:37
I guess with him there's every chance of a double bluff and things in there just to point you in the wrong direction.
What makes me laugh is the fact that he bull****s by saying that he can't show his numbers! Why? Camelot said no and as you can't put the numbers on 5 mins before then it shows it's a fix!
"For security reasons and so that nobody else benefits from what I am doing here there is just me and two camera men in here. "
He then reinforces two by saying hello to just two cameras.
That's what I mean - he doesn't explicitly say there's only two cameras - he says there's only two cameramen. Therefore if there is indeed a third camera he isn't technically lying.
Apparently can be viewed here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHb_WqX_plg
(can't access youtube at work)
Go on then, but use spoilers :thumbs:
Tell.:D
His cuff-links were ear-bud headphones. He made a special effort to show there was nothing in his ears, but IIRC (didn't watch it last night) he frequently brings his hands up to the side of his head in mock concentration.
dean richardson
10-09-2009, 13:01
statto - did he reveal this or just your opinion?
All IMO. However, given that he also claimed to memorise an encyclopedia in an hour or so in one episode of his show, it's clear he lies about a lot of the stuff he's supposedly memorised. In his book he gives an example of how he can memorise Shakespeare's plays and their order, but that technique can't be applied to the encyclopedia or a-z trick.
He had a bloke with binoculars in a distant part of the reading-room who was feeding him the lines... probably. :D
EDIT: I used to work with a bloke who was in the magic circle, and he hinted about loads of stuff DB did. I've also read a truckload of stuff about mentalism (including a lot of stuff specifically aimed at practicing mentalists, some of it written by DB himself). Misdirection and showmanship are the key to his act. Thinking he's memorised the entire a-z/atlas/phonebook/dictionary etc is a lot more impressive that what he's actually done. As with all magic acts there's a certain degree of disappointment when you know how it's really done.
Ferdy147
10-09-2009, 13:26
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTEjLOs-V9A
http://i28.tinypic.com/ehmzvp.gif
boonspoon
10-09-2009, 13:31
Unseen footage from last night....
http://i28.tinypic.com/104n3p1.gif
:D :lol:
However he did it, the intrigue surrounding this should secure a decent audience for Fridays nights show.
I did notice while watching last night that the camera seemed to be shaking quite a bit and because of this I couldnt help but notice it when it when dead still. Having just watched the video again I did notice it went still just as he was finishing writing up the numbers on the board.
You have to wonder why he wrote them down and didnt just turn the balls round individually as the numbers round up was being completed. To give him and his assistant (or whatever method of getting the numbers on the balls) that little bit of time required to complete the trick??
If the 'moving ball' is evidence of a split screen scam then it should also be noted that at the point that the 'real' balls were presumably being put into place (and the split screen removed) DB lets out rather unnecessary shudder as he attempts to read the numbers out in order (even though they have already been placed innumerical order on the BBC show at this point).
Classic misdirection?
neverland
10-09-2009, 14:22
I can tell you exactly how he did it, but only a few minutes after he tells us.
That's how it works. :)
I was going to say this earlier, but unfortunately KRW had the legal rights to do this gag first.
Yes, i've done a special spoiler box and everyhing, that I'll reveal on Saturday.
thescrounger
10-09-2009, 14:38
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rqAt2akPHJ8&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rqAt2akPHJ8&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Exactly.
All IMO. However, given that he also claimed to memorise an encyclopedia in an hour or so in one episode of his show, it's clear he lies about a lot of the stuff he's supposedly memorised. In his book he gives an example of how he can memorise Shakespeare's plays and their order, but that technique can't be applied to the encyclopedia or a-z trick.
He had a bloke with binoculars in a distant part of the reading-room who was feeding him the lines... probably. :D
EDIT: I used to work with a bloke who was in the magic circle, and he hinted about loads of stuff DB did. I've also read a truckload of stuff about mentalism (including a lot of stuff specifically aimed at practicing mentalists, some of it written by DB himself). Misdirection and showmanship are the key to his act. Thinking he's memorised the entire a-z/atlas/phonebook/dictionary etc is a lot more impressive that what he's actually done. As with all magic acts there's a certain degree of disappointment when you know how it's really done.
Don't have a list of the books do you ? Only read the last DB book and fancy delving a little deeper.
MetalGearAl
10-09-2009, 14:59
FWIW, there are proven techniques that you can develop for speed reading books very quickly, with high retention of the subject matter.
Don't have a list of the books do you ? Only read the last DB book and fancy delving a little deeper.
The books by DB are called Absolute Magic and Pure Effect. Pure Effect is the one that deals more with techniques. It's out of print now, and picking up a secondhand copy is expensive, but you'll get your money back if you sell it on. There's also a lot of information freely available on the net which other authors have done. These are mainly aimed at practitioners, so unless (like me) you have a deep interest in the subject they're not really worth reading. They're certainly nothing like Trick of the Mind.
FWIW, there are proven techniques that you can develop for speed reading books very quickly, with high retention of the subject matter.
Those techniques get you to a reading speed of about 5-8000 WPM. Ten times faster than traditional speed-reading, but nowhere near the speed DB claims.
MRS-Speed
10-09-2009, 16:57
You mean... it wasn't magic?
(You guys are anal.... Mr Speed has been watching this in slo-mo for 12 hours straight).
[QUOTE=MRS-Speed;8781336]
(You guys are anal.... QUOTE]
:n0rty::suspect:
Between Derren saying the words 23 and 35 the camera is completely still for the only time, so I'm convinced it's a green screen trick.
However, I'm intrigued as to why he's done something so simplistic as he now has to make a 30 minute programme about it.
After seeing his live stuff, I still think he's a genius!
dont they have motion control cameras that can record from a manual handheld camera and then reproduce this exactly.
Do run through earlier on with derren and old lottery show.(hence the stalling at the end.)
Use left side of this with motion control camera again filming real derren on right live. Plenty of time for woman helper minion(so isnt lying about camera men) watching screen to use her 49 ping pong collection to build a new rack and swap it in probobly the rack has pins on floor to make sure position is spot on. now the left half of the screen is turned live and as the lighting is controlled and can be made to match perfectly cut to live in the locked off section of film at 2:05 or so.
et voila.
Arthur Fowler
10-09-2009, 18:32
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9931/fullscreencapture090920.jpg (http://img100.imageshack.us/i/fullscreencapture090920.jpg/)
Mayyyybbbee.. though it seems unlikely. He moves them and they look solid. I thought the box they were in might have had a mirror on the front and the balls were actually below, so they could be moved.. but that doesn't look the case when he rotates the box. Maybe they are expensive wireless OLED displays! That'd do it.
Sorry about quoting such a big picture, but I think that there is a reason why the two "1"s in eleven are written differently. The opinions seem to be going towards the split camera, but I'm going with the other option of the laser etching or internal LEDs.
I think this because he had to write the first "1" differently, so that the software knew that it was the start of 11 rather than the first number being 21.
Just an opinion though. Oh yes, and I think he's a great showman and I never for one moment thought he would predict and announce the results beforehand!
rezabelady
10-09-2009, 18:44
However, I'm intrigued as to why he's done something so simplistic as he now has to make a 30 minute programme about it.
He said something about the program being projected on to the side of a building and thanks for coming (seemed a bit strange for just a ~10 min segment).. they might show something to do with that I guess.
scoobyood
10-09-2009, 18:55
dont they have motion control cameras that can record from a manual handheld camera and then reproduce this exactly.
Do run through earlier on with derren and old lottery show.(hence the stalling at the end.)
Use left side of this with motion control camera again filming real derren on right live. Plenty of time for woman helper minion(so isnt lying about camera men) watching screen to use her 49 ping pong collection to build a new rack and swap it in probobly the rack has pins on floor to make sure position is spot on. now the left half of the screen is turned live and as the lighting is controlled and can be made to match perfectly cut to live in the locked off section of film at 2:05 or so.
et voila.
Good thinking, motion control would be the only way to do it. If it was just a camera which was split for the section where they switched the balls then it would be extremely difficult to line it up for zooming and when it pans slightly. The camera switches to a second camera once when he enters the room, it shows Derren waving in front of a man with a hand held camera. That would be easy to film earlier and the change would be plenty long enough to switch from the hand held (that filmed him walk into the room) to the pre-set motion control camera. Motion control would also allow the spec of dirt that moves correctly when the camera zooms to be in the same place on both takes. The shakiness would still be added over top digitally.
Fatbloke
10-09-2009, 19:40
Just watched this (the 4OD version sadly) and does anyone else notice the sudden shift in the image at 1.38 - this is the point where, for reasons 'unknown', DB walks the long way around the balls. I mean, he wants to get back to the TV, why not just turn back the way he came? But no.. he takes more steps to purposely walk in front of the balls - at that point, watch the colour / lighting of the floor, does it change?
Quite what is happening - I'm not sure - perhaps a rotating mirror to allow 'someone' to change the balls behind it? But I'm convinced it's that moment the switch is pulled.
I'm also pretty convinced that after Friday's show we'll be none the wiser how he did it ;)
AndyWilson
10-09-2009, 20:09
Sorry about quoting such a big picture, but I think that there is a reason why the two "1"s in eleven are written differently. The opinions seem to be going towards the split camera, but I'm going with the other option of the laser etching or internal LEDs.
I think this because he had to write the first "1" differently, so that the software knew that it was the start of 11 rather than the first number being 21.
Why would he need to write anything? Someone else in the next room could just be watching the lottery and typing the numbers in.
If you look closely at the balls the numbers do seem to be in a panel that's whiter than the rest of the ball, which leads me to believe in magic techno-balls - BUT....
If he was going to do it that way why couldn't he make it REALLY impressive and reveal one ball at a time immediately after the number is announced?
Why would he need to write anything? Someone else in the next room could just be watching the lottery and typing the numbers in.
If you look closely at the balls the numbers do seem to be in a panel that's whiter than the rest of the ball, which leads me to believe in magic techno-balls - BUT....
If he was going to do it that way why couldn't he make it REALLY impressive and reveal one ball at a time immediately after the number is announced?
I don't think he did it that way, but he said the numbers were in order of size. Also predicting the order they came out might have been a bridge too far.
Good thinking, motion control would be the only way to do it. If it was just a camera which was split for the section where they switched the balls then it would be extremely difficult to line it up for zooming and when it pans slightly. The camera switches to a second camera once when he enters the room, it shows Derren waving in front of a man with a hand held camera. That would be easy to film earlier and the change would be plenty long enough to switch from the hand held (that filmed him walk into the room) to the pre-set motion control camera. Motion control would also allow the spec of dirt that moves correctly when the camera zooms to be in the same place on both takes. The shakiness would still be added over top digitally.
wouldnt the motion control rig capture the shakiness of the original human cameraman(person) and then replicate it when it does the automated (live with the draw) pass later?
scoobyood
10-09-2009, 20:28
wouldnt the motion control rig capture the shakiness of the original human cameraman(person) and then replicate it when it does the automated (live with the draw) pass later?
The motion control rig is a massive arm with big motors and it's bolted to the floor in some cases. Any movements are programmed in/recorded by an operator using wheels and joysticks. I'm sure they can do small shakes but it's not generally used for those movements, it's the big ultra smooth swoops instead. Small shakes are the enemy of motion control.
I don't understand why you'd need any motion control. Surely they would just use a fixed camera with software that would just freeze the left hand side of the screen for the relevant amount of time, and add the shakes and zooms in afterwards.
Fatbloke
10-09-2009, 21:09
I like the possibility of using a laser to etch the numbers on the balls, as suggested by a commentator on the DB site :)
Certainly seems like something camera related (which is a shame). But I'm still consufed how the snowflake in the (Friday reveal) trailer might be connected. Six sided - six balls :shrug:
Arthur Fowler
10-09-2009, 21:10
Why would he need to write anything? Someone else in the next room could just be watching the lottery and typing the numbers in.
:doh: yes, you're right.
scoobyood
10-09-2009, 21:14
I don't understand why you'd need any motion control. Surely they would just use a fixed camera with software that would just freeze the left hand side of the screen for the relevant amount of time, and add the shakes and zooms in afterwards.
The camera zooms and pans, you can see a small parallax shift when it does it. Then there's some dirt on the lens which moves in accordance with the zooming. There is no way they could line it up (in real-time/live) without motion control. The camera shake is a trivial digital effect to add on.
The only question really is how did they switch the balls. My first thoughts were some sort of split screen camera trick. Derren doesn't seem to touch the balls themselves so it's unlikely he actually switched anything.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rqAt2akPHJ8&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rqAt2akPHJ8&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
That's pretty impressive to get that made this fast.
The camera zooms and pans, you can see a small parallax shift when it does it. Then there's some dirt on the lens which moves in accordance with the zooming. There is no way they could line it up (in real-time/live) without motion control. The camera shake is a trivial digital effect to add on.
I watched it again and can't see any parallax shift when it pans. Isn't having dirt on the lens rather convenient, how often do broadcasts have dirt on the lens?
He's made it so obvious that he must want us to believe it's split screen. I wonder what he;s got up his sleeve for friday.
Good thinking, motion control would be the only way to do it. The camera switches to a second camera once when he enters the room, it shows Derren waving in front of a man with a hand held camera. That would be easy to film earlier and the change would be plenty long enough to switch from the hand held (that filmed him walk into the room) to the pre-set motion control camera. The shakiness would still be added over top digitally.
I think you've got it spot on.
If you watch the full video, the stuff up until 0:40 is all handheld and Derren is cut off below the knee. At 0:41 we swap to the camera at the back of the studio. The handheld cameraman doesn't move and is clearly still pointing the camera at his upper torso. But at 0:42 we switch back to Derren and all of his body is in the picture. So that has to be when the switch to motion control happens.
<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QG-5qebwflA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QG-5qebwflA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
Certainly seems like something camera related (which is a shame). But I'm still consufed how the snowflake in the (Friday reveal) trailer might be connected. Six sided - six balls :shrug:
Snowflakes are supposed to be unique, that's the one thing everyone *knows* about them, but I don't know how true that is. The chances of two being the same are probably about the same as being able to predict the lottery numbers?
Much as I like the split screen theory, it screams of misdirection. has anyone actually checked that these were the right lottery numbers? :D
That must be when it happens, there's an obvious height change between shots.
... But at 0:42 we switch back to Derren and all of his body is in the picture. So that has to be when the switch to motion control happens.
Eh? That's just a reframe. :shrug:
Much as I like the split screen theory, it screams of misdirection. has anyone actually checked that these were the right lottery numbers? :D
That was the first thing I thought of, but they are the right ones.
Eh? That's just a reframe. :shrug:
I don't think so. At 0:40-0:42 there is a definite switch from the handheld camera to the motion control tripod one. The walk into the studio is pre-recorded and that cut to the back of the studio is supposed to hide it. The live stuff only starts when he waves and says hello...
I didn't see it live but is there any reason why it couldn't be something simple like the numbers are "added" to the balls digitally afterwards and the balls are actually blank.
Also don't get the legal mumbo jumbo argument that Camelot said he couldn't legally show the lottery numbers before the BBC. Surely if he showed his numbers before the start of the BBC broadcast that has no "legal" implications what so ever as they're just his prediction and not the "actual" lottery numbers which were drawn a few minutes later on the BBC. It sounds like a poor get out excuse (because he had no idea what the numbers would be so couldn't show them before being drawn) though I guess it could be argued its also for dramatic effect.
Any reason why his numbers should be lined up in numerical order and not the order they were picked out in.
I don't think so. At 0:40-0:42 there is a definite switch from the handheld camera to the motion control tripod one. The walk into the studio is pre-recorded and that cut to the back of the studio is supposed to hide it. The live stuff only starts when he waves and says hello...
I'm not sure it switches camera but there is definitely a wider shot ie you see his legs afterwards. I suppose the camera man could have zoomed out a bit when the momentary picture from the other studio camera is shown. But as somebody above says the camera man seems to be standing too close for the wider shot.
I've never really watched Derren Brown before but I'm tempted to watch Friday to see how its done. Though I suspect we will be disappointed to find out I usually am when I find out how the Secret Magician does magic tricks on that programme shown on ITV2 /3 ? You feel a bit cheated that its such a simple illusion or trick.
As on the you tube comments. Look at the left hand ball at 5.40 and you see it move upwards.
emeyedeejay
11-09-2009, 06:45
Could be that all these things people are spotting are themselves misdirects which are generating masses of hype and discussion...
Fatbloke
11-09-2009, 08:15
Could be that all these things people are spotting are themselves misdirects which are generating masses of hype and discussion...
I bet his misdirection will be that he faked the actual draw on screen. Yes they are the actual numbers, but were they in the same order? :?:
TheFatBoy
11-09-2009, 08:23
That's pretty impressive to get that made this fast.
Not really, would only take about half an hour at the most.
Could be that all these things people are spotting are themselves misdirects which are generating masses of hype and discussion...
Yeah, he's not daft and he knows people will spend hours looking at digitally enhanced footage in the short time between wed & fri. I dont think its camera trickery - he has more events planned and it would negate the effect if it was some sort of special effect.
I think the answer will be so simple and daft we'll be kicking ourselves.
I didn't see it live but is there any reason why it couldn't be something simple like the numbers are "added" to the balls digitally afterwards and the balls are actually blank.
Also don't get the legal mumbo jumbo argument that Camelot said he couldn't legally show the lottery numbers before the BBC. Surely if he showed his numbers before the start of the BBC broadcast that has no "legal" implications what so ever as they're just his prediction and not the "actual" lottery numbers which were drawn a few minutes later on the BBC. It sounds like a poor get out excuse (because he had no idea what the numbers would be so couldn't show them before being drawn) though I guess it could be argued its also for dramatic effect.
Any reason why his numbers should be lined up in numerical order and not the order they were picked out in.
It's possible that they were added digitally, but if they were why not do something more impressive like have them in a box that he's standing on. Having them in a tighly fitting rack where they can be changed without moving position and buying time by writing on the card point to a split screen.
He needs some excuse to not be able to show them before the draw, that's all the legal thing is.
Could be that all these things people are spotting are themselves misdirects which are generating masses of hype and discussion...
That's what I think, there are so many things in there that point to a camera trick that it has got to be deliberate to put us off the scent. Much as I'd like to think we've outwitted him, I'm sure he will come up with something noone ever thought of or noticed.
scoobyood
11-09-2009, 08:44
Yeah, he's not daft and he knows people will spend hours looking at digitally enhanced footage in the short time between wed & fri. I dont think its camera trickery - he has more events planned and it would negate the effect if it was some sort of special effect.
I think the answer will be so simple and daft we'll be kicking ourselves.
I do hope we'll all be proved idiots :thumbs: The synopsis for tonight's show does say that he'll reveal how he did it and how we can do it too, so if it's not repeatable by some one who doesn't have several hundred grands worth of camera equipment then it's going to be big disappointment. But he'll also definitely have a confusing twist that goes beyond what he "gives away"... I'm guessing the camera trickery, which there is evidence for, is part of that.
We'll see later! :)
What he doing next week for us to pee all over? :lol:
That's what I think, there are so many things in there that point to a camera trick that it has got to be deliberate to put us off the scent. Much as I'd like to think we've outwitted him, I'm sure he will come up with something noone ever thought of or noticed.
Why on earth would you believe his explanation? There are loads of ways he could have done this, and it's doubtful all the little evidences of camera trickery were put there deliberately (I think people are giving DB way too much credit here).
I've already said several times that the way he says he did it will not be the way he actually did. In all probability over the last couple of days he's been looking at the theories people have been coming up with and making sure he discredits them on the Friday show (even if the theories are spot on).
The purpose of these events are to enhance the aura behind DB's persona. You obviously can't predict lottery numbers in advance, so the best he can hope for is that everyone thinks what a genius he is for the way he did it. A camera trick doesn't fulfill that criteria.
so if it's not repeatable by some one who doesn't have several hundred grands worth of camera equipment then it's going to be big disappointment.
Couple of hundred grand?
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rqAt2akPHJ8&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rqAt2akPHJ8&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Fatbloke
11-09-2009, 09:25
Unless that guy's in on the act :suspect:
scoobyood
11-09-2009, 09:29
Couple of hundred grand?
Is youtube live now!? :eek:
This isn't really a "trick" unless it's done live ;)
Plus that guy didn't move his camera or shift the zoom.
it's strange that he covers his mouth as the draw takes place - almost as if he's talking to somebody (perhaps the person doing the switch?). an odd thing to do.
excellent bit of tv though, and very provocative - got everyone talking about it, and a great draw for all the advertisers who've bought space before/after/during tonight's programme.
<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-rHPh5Xanss&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-rHPh5Xanss&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
Looks like they have been collecting all the theories at the derren brown blog and compiling them here :
http://derrenbrownlotteryprediction.wordpress.com/
Also i heard that next weeks event will be : "Over the last few weeks Derren has stolen more than £5000 from someone - he did this via hypnosis so the person will have no idea that even they met him, let alone awareness they were robbed (it could be any one of... us!) At some point in the near future Derren is going to phone the person from a casino and explain he took their savings. Then he will use his gambling mind power to multiply the cash before returning it to them". Although looking at his events site it seems that the Control one should be next.
badgerprincess
11-09-2009, 09:52
Derrens twitter comment this morning: "Morning. Speculation this morning fantastic. Lasers, split screens, tiny LED readouts in the balls. I am loving today. Hope you are well."
One from last night "My favourite headline following last night: Gay magician predicts UK lotto numbers" lol
Looking forward to tonights show. I wanna know how he did it!
emeyedeejay
11-09-2009, 10:08
:lol: vid in in post 243 is class :D
ChrisHunt
11-09-2009, 10:13
Heres how he did it:
He murdered 9 kittens at 9:09pm on the 9th of September 2009. The Devil then told him what the numbers would be! Mystery Solved
DB wasn't on my radar at all before this week - I only had a vague awareness of who he is.
I'm now feeling quite tempted to get tickets for his tour early next year which, coincidentally, have just gone on sale:
Ticket Master (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=82&url=http://www.ticketmaster.co.uk/Derren-Brown-tickets/artist/933341)
So, looks like job done for Derren.
Heres how he did it:
He murdered 9 kittens at 9:09pm on the 9th of September 2009. The Devil then told him what the numbers would be! Mystery Solved
He must have a sore peen! :D
Also i heard that next weeks event will be : "Over the last few weeks Derren has stolen more than £5000 from someone - he did this via hypnosis so the person will have no idea that even they met him, let alone awareness they were robbed (it could be any one of... us!) At some point in the near future Derren is going to phone the person from a casino and explain he took their savings. Then he will use his gambling mind power to multiply the cash before returning it to them". Although looking at his events site it seems that the Control one should be next.
I lost my debit and credit cards last week, and haven't had access online to either account :eek:
vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.