HELP: Sub nearly dead…

[Welshlad]

I’m looking for some advice/suggestion from anyone who can help me with this recently developed problem please.
I have a Mission FS2-AV Speaker set (which wire into the sub and then the sub into my Amp) connected to a Pioneer VSX908 DTS Amp and up until now everything has been fine. However, I’ve just noticed that my Sub is all but mute, and to hear anything at all from the Sub means turning the volume up to a ridiculous level. As I said above, the speakers wire into the sub and then to the Amp, and all the speakers are working fine and sound just as they should, its just the LFE that seems to have all but died.
The power light it on and I have fiddled about (to no great extent) with the connections, but had no luck at all, and wondered if anyone could suggest anything to try?

Incidentally, when I do a speaker test, the Sub doesn’t (and never has) output a test tone which I believed was due to they way they were connected – is this right?

Thanks and any suggestions welcome

[Phayze]

The sub won't sound on the test tone unless it's connected directly to the amp, not via the speakers.

[davey1970]

mmm, have you somehow switched your amp to output to a seperate sub, rather than have all the low frequencies through the front speakers, ( and hence through your sub as it's connected to them).

you've probably tried this already but i find myself certain that i checked something and then when i go and check it find out i hadnt!!!

also, if you have a a+b speaker selector, try wiring the sub to the b speaker terminals (leave the speaker to sub sockets empty on the sub) as if it was a normal set of speakers, turn a+b on, and see what its like then. i dont think that will do anything but you never know!


d

[Welshlad]

Thanks for the suggestion davey1970 but still no joy...
Anything else it could be? Anyone?

[Welshlad]

No-one have any ideas then?

[davey1970]

i cant think of anything at all mate :-(((( , unless you give a detailed description of how you wire the thing up.

I spose one possibility is that you have the + and - on your speaker cable wrong somewhere, or just one of the cables going into the wrong terminal. this always used to get me - i had cable talk 3 and it was v difficult to see the signs on the speaker cable, but if i had it wrong my amp used to turn itself off!!!

like before, i expect you have checked this already.

maybe time to buy an active sub if your amp has the connections for one?

cheers
d

[davey1970]

if your sub isnt dead and you have it wired up correctly, i can only think is must be a setting on your amp.

[Welshlad]

OK, not sure if you have any experience with either of the components, but here goes:

Each of the 5 speakers wired directly to the inputs on the sub (cable checked – polarity correct on every one).
Umbilical cord from sub connected to speaker inputs on amp, again, all checked and connected fine.
LFE cable from sub has been tried in both sub outputs (one is for an external decoder, the other is for a powered sub IIRC), with the amp setting for the sub to ‘ON’. Also tried without the LFE cable connected and the Sub setting switched off on the amp with no difference.

In the amp, it is set as the speakers as Large (as per the speaker instructions) and I have tried the sub as 'on' / 'off' / 'plus' and anything else I can think of.

Anyway, if its any clearer, here (http://www.homecinemachoice.com/testbench/Amplifiers/Pioneer/PioneerVSX-908RDS_rear.jpg) is the inputs on the back of my amp..not sure if it will be of any use but you never know!

Cheers m8...any further suggestions appreciated!

[MikeK]

Originally posted by Welshlad
OK, not sure if you have any experience with either of the components, but here goes:

Each of the 5 speakers wired directly to the inputs on the sub (cable checked – polarity correct on every one).
Umbilical cord from sub connected to speaker inputs on amp, again, all checked and connected fine.
LFE cable from sub has been tried in both sub outputs (one is for an external decoder, the other is for a powered sub IIRC), with the amp setting for the sub to ‘ON’. Also tried without the LFE cable connected and the Sub setting switched off on the amp with no difference.

In the amp, it is set as the speakers as Large (as per the speaker instructions) and I have tried the sub as 'on' / 'off' / 'plus' and anything else I can think of.

Anyway, if its any clearer, here (http://www.homecinemachoice.com/testbench/Amplifiers/Pioneer/PioneerVSX-908RDS_rear.jpg) is the inputs on the back of my amp..not sure if it will be of any use but you never know!

Cheers m8...any further suggestions appreciated!


As far as I can see, the amp only has one subwoofer output (in the section labelled PREOUT). The other socket marked SW is an input from an external decoder.

Have you tried disconnecting the FS speakers entirely (both from amp and sub), and running with just the LFE cable connected to the PREOUT-SW phono socket on the amp, and the other end connected to the LFE line level in on the sub (or whatever Mission call it)
Then check the amp is set for SUBWOOFER=on (don't know what the plus means for this setting, perhaps you could explain).
Play a DVD which you know has a good level of LFE effects and see what sound level is coming from the sub.
Check settings like LFE level and sub level etc.
You should get a very muffled sounding but easily audible sound - hopefully very bassy.
If not, then remove the LFE cable from the amp, and plug it directly into one of the stereo analogue out phonos on your DVD player and play a CD - you should get the bassy muffled sound of the music at a decent level.
Then post back with what you get.

[Welshlad]

Thanks MikeK - excellent idea. I will try what you suggested later on today and get straight back with the results.
The Plus setting on the sub simply 'gives a stronger reproduction of deep bass sounds' by redirecting certain frequencies from the front and center speakers to the sub. Not sure how much of a difference this makes, as I never really tried it when everything was working.

[MikeK]

This may sound stupid, but what setting have you got the level control set at on the sub unit. This should control the level of the subwoofer itself relative to the panel speakers, while the amp's volume knob controls the overall level.

Also, as I understand it, the LFE cable should be connected to the SW socket on the back of the amp, in the connection set marked as PREOUT, and on the sub-unit it plugs into the phono socket closest to the umbilical cord plug, marked SUB IN.
On the amp, the speakers should be set to LARGE, and the subwoofer set to ON.
It could be that the LFE cable is faulty - no matter though even if it is. If you set the speakers to LARGE on the amp, and subwoofer=off, then the amp should redirect the LFE channel to the front left and right channels, and the sub-unit itself should then filter the bass from the speaker level inputs.


I'd start off with the level control on the sub-unit set at about halfway, and the contour control set all the way on (fully clockwise).
Then play a DVD as you would normally, and adjust the level control on the sub until it sounds right (ie with the correct level of bass to sound realistic, but not overdone).
If you can't get a decent level of bass relative to the level of the sound coming from the panels, even with the sub-unit's level control set to maximum, then it's time to investigate further.

[Welshlad]

This may sound stupid, but what setting have you got the level control set at on the sub unit. This should control the level of the subwoofer itself relative to the panel speakers, while the amp's volume knob controls the overall level.

At the moment I have them both set on half way, because thats what the manual suggests. Even when it was all working fine it was only set slightly off half way.

Also, as I understand it, the LFE cable should be connected to the SW socket on the back of the amp, in the connection set marked as PREOUT, and on the sub-unit it plugs into the phono socket closest to the umbilical cord plug, marked SUB IN.
On the amp, the speakers should be set to LARGE, and the subwoofer set to ON.

Yep, thats how it has always been set-up. At the moment the cable is dis-connected and sub is switched off (just to try that out). Will reconnect it l8r though to try your suggestion (without the speakers)..cheers.

It could be that the LFE cable is faulty - no matter though even if it is. If you set the speakers to LARGE on the amp, and subwoofer=off, then the amp should redirect the LFE channel to the front left and right channels, and the sub-unit itself should then filter the bass from the speaker level inputs.

Thats actually very possible, as the length of the connection from the tighly bound umbilical cord is barely enough to reach the SW output meaning its always a bit of a stretch to connect it up to the amp, maybe that has damaged it?


I'd start off with the level control on the sub-unit set at about halfway, and the contour control set all the way on (fully clockwise).
Then play a DVD as you would normally, and adjust the level control on the sub until it sounds right (ie with the correct level of bass to sound realistic, but not overdone).
If you can't get a decent level of bass relative to the level of the sound coming from the panels, even with the sub-unit's level control set to maximum, then it's time to investigate further.

Ok, will do - I'll give that a go first, thanks for the help. I'll let you know how I get on.

[Welshlad]

To further update, I unplugged all the speakers and ran a DVD with just the sub connected, and you could barely hear anything coming out, although there was definitely some murmuring there even if it was mighty quiet.
So, I’m wondering if it is a hardware fault now, ‘cos it seems to be working, just not properly! Lol!

This is really starting to frustrate me now :(

[davey1970]

i'd be going nuts by now if it was me mate.

unlikely, but i dont spose you know someone who has a sub which you could borrow to test (ie. leave all the cables as they are but connected to their sub).

at least if it worked perfect you would know there is something up with your sub!

d

[Welshlad]

Originally posted by davey1970
i'd be going nuts by now if it was me mate.

unlikely, but i dont spose you know someone who has a sub which you could borrow to test (ie. leave all the cables as they are but connected to their sub).

at least if it worked perfect you would know there is something up with your sub!

d
Unfortunately, no I dont :(
Its driving me near insanity now, but at least the speakers themselves are still functional - thats one good thing (I bet I curse those now!). However, its not the same is it! ;)

Cheers for the replies - keep 'em coming 'cos I'm desperate!

[Welshlad]

problem remains - still seeking advice....anyone?

Thnx

[gary]

Sounds faulty to me. I'd get in touch with the dealer you got it from and see what they say.....

Edited because of confusion over models ;)

[Welshlad]

Well, having exhausted all possible avenues of investigation I rang mission this morning and was astounded by how pleasant and efficient their staff were.
The phone was answered within the first ring, instantly forwarded to the right department where I spoke with a very polite and incredibly helpful Customer Services manager. I was asked of the problem, apologised to MANY times for the product malfunctioning, and with no quibble (He didn’t even ask me how old the sub was!) said they would have a brand new sub at my door hopefully within 24 hours, definitely by mid-day Wed!
He added that they prefer to exchange for new as it allows them to look at the faulty products in their own time and examine it thoroughly to ensure it’s an isolated problem and something they can pick up on to avoid in the future.

I cannot recall a company so committed and helpful with regard to the customer service and after sales, and really do owe Mission a big thank you for the way they operate. Looks like I’ll be sticking to Mission products for a long time yet!

Here’s to getting the new one...and hopefully things working again! Cheers for all the suggestions throughout this thread - It was appreciated.

[davey1970]

nice one Welshlad, fingers crossed it WAS the sub!!!!!

d

[Welshlad]

Originally posted by davey1970
nice one Welshlad, fingers crossed it WAS the sub!!!!!
d
LOL! Don't say that, I'll feel a right tit now if it wasn't! :D

[nickwall]

Superb customer service - even more pleased with my new Mission speakers now!!:D

[Welshlad]

Originally posted by nickwall
Superb customer service - even more pleased with my new Mission speakers now!!

Yep, it is very reassuring to know that they are always there and instantly willing to help.
Just out of interest, which speakers did you get? what do you think of them?

[davey1970]

i'll answer even though you didnt ask me lol.

i recently bought the m72 cinema pack along with a m70as sub, and i'm v pleased with the whole thing (all goes into a yamaha 620)

i also find it reassuring about the customer service!!!

d

[Welshlad]

Just to tie this thread up and give another big thanks to Mission, after two Big cock-ups from those ever-so-efficient Lynx couriers, I finally received my Sub back from Mission last week and in fully working order.
Great service from a great company – In the end they couldn’t replace the sub because they say they carry no stock (although they did say If I waited a month they could send me another one) but picked it up, repaired mine and delivered it back free of charge.

One happy customer! :clap: