View Full Version : Bloody covers/sampling!
For years I've been frustrated and annoyed at the number of covers that seem to get into the charts and/or songs that heavily sample a song. Now I'm all for recycling but it's rediculous! On sunday, listening to the radio I heard "So Human" by Lady Soverign which is basically a reworking of "close to me" by The Cure. I also heard a song (right round by Flo Rida) that used the chorus from Dead or Alives "You spin me round".
Am I the only one who can't stand this? I'm not against all covers but these tracks seem to be aimed at kids who've probably never heard the originals and would assume that the version they're listening to was entirely new, which is pretty good for the reputation of the person doing the cover.
Get with the program, Grandad! :D
It was the same when we were younger and will be the same when today's kids get older too! Let 'em have their versions / samples / whatever, time will erase all the crap anyway and the definitive versions (be they originals or covers) will endure.
You really think anyone will remember Flo Rida in 5 years time, nevermind 25?
Mr Majestik
15-04-2009, 09:10
It was the same when we were younger and will be the same when today's kids get older too! Let 'em have their versions / samples / whatever, time will erase all the crap anyway and the definitive versions (be they originals or covers) will endure.
You really think anyone will remember Flo Rida in 5 years time, nevermind 25?
As above but i doubt any one will remember Flo Rida by the end of the month.
It was the same when we were younger
Was it? I'm sure most of the songs I remember from the 80's were originals. I'm not saying it never happened but not to the same extent. I remember feeling scammed when I found out "I think you're alone now" by Tiffany was a cover (and then "I saw him standing there"). I remember Wet Wet Wets "A little help from my friends" but it was mentioned quite a lot that it was a cover
Taking Flo Rida as an example, the people who bought the single will remember, as will the people who bought the album (assuming there's one). Next time they release a single, people who love the current track might buy it off the back of it.
Mr Majestik
15-04-2009, 18:25
There was just the same amount of bad records now as their was in the 80's.
In fact things are proberly better now because there's a lot more alternatives to listening to Radio 1/Local tin pot radio.
Here's the best selling singles in 1989. Some good, some very very bad and a lot of covers....
Kylie Minogue & Jason Donovan - 'Especially For You'
Marc Almond with Gene Pitney - 'Something's Gotten Hold Of My Heart'
Simple Minds - 'Belfast Child'
Jason Donovan - 'Too Many Broken Hearts'
Madonna - 'Like A Prayer'
Bangles - 'Eternal Flame'
Kylie Minogue - 'Hand On Your Heart'
Gerry Marsden, Paul McCartney, Holly Johnson & Christians - 'Ferry 'Cross The Mersey'
Jason Donovan - 'Sealed With A Kiss'
Soul II Soul featuring Caron Wheeler - 'Back To Life (However Do You Want Me)'
Sonia - 'You'll Never Stop Me From Loving You'
Jive Bunny & The Mastermixers - 'Swing The Mood'
Black Box - 'Ride On Time'
Jive Bunny & The Mastermixers - 'That's What I Like'
Lisa Stansfield - 'All Around The World'
New Kids On The Block - 'You Got It (The Right Stuff)'
Jive Bunny & The Mastermixers - 'Let's Party'
Band Aid II - 'Do They Know It's Christmas?'
retroandy
15-04-2009, 20:18
Don't mind covers, infact I quite like them, seeing how different bands interpret the material, but when you rip out the hook and chorus of someone elses song, and pass it off as your own new song, changing the title along the way that's where I begin to despair about the whole thing. That's plain plagiarism. Anyone know if credit and royalties go to the original artists?
It's not the same as finding the Clash's "I fought the law" was infact a straight up cover of Bobby Fuller Four's song, it's more like claiming you wrote Penny Lane, only thirty years after McCartney.
p_chally
15-04-2009, 21:02
As for the current reworking of the classic Tiny Dancer with Elton Johns approval, by Ironic???????? one question WHY???????????
There was just the same amount of bad records now as their was in the 80's.
Bad is a different story. Of the ones you list two are mixes of old songs (which I quite enjoyed :razz: ), one was a charity record and the Gene Pitney one is almost a re-release
Don't mind covers, infact I quite like them, seeing how different bands interpret the material
It's one thing when you take a famous song and you perhaps do your own thing, especially if you're a successful act, it's another to build a fanbase on someone elses work. I wouldn't mind so much if people knew they were covers but how many teenagers know and/or love songs from the 80's? No one seems to acknowledge the fact so presumably most buyers don't even realise. Then again they might not care.
Bad isn't really a different story at all. There probably are more covers but then the industry is now having to cut back and slim down so it saves employing someone to write a song when you can cover it. Especially as the only people caring about the singles now are under 18...
The real mistake you've made is in assuming most people actually care about music because they don't: they just want something melodic in the background. Those of us who are music geeks will always find out the original versions of songs and take an interest in these things so these covers won't affect anyone.
Does it really matter if they're original songs if they're of the same awful calibre of Stock, Aitkin and Waterman's work for Kylie and Jason? I don't think so.
douglasb
16-04-2009, 08:07
Especially as the only people caring about the singles now are under 18...
I think the split is more subtle than that.
1) There are 'tracks' - individual downloads that are not always 'singles'
2) And there are 7"s and 12"s - split pretty much along indie and dance lines.
The 'single' as a mass market, physical product has gone. I'm not sure than I can go out at lunchtime and buy a single anywhere in town.
The 7" market is dying in the Indie world. Well it seems that way from most of the minor labels I'm talking to. I guess people aren't sure they want to own so much stuff any more or something. Shame.
But yes, by singles I meant the market that drove what we saw on TOTP.
douglasb
16-04-2009, 09:20
Oh, that's a shame. Perhaps the revival in 7"s was fuelled by the middle aged (ie. me) just happy to be able to buy the format. Until a couple of years ago, when I could walk into Virgin and pick up the White Stripes or whatever, I was probably still buying half a dozen in a month. But then they stopped stocking them and it meant I had to look towards mail-order. This means I don't impulse buy - and if that's replicated across the country ... overall sales must be down.
It's a bit like the movie download issue. All sorts of people are learning that they don't NEED the physical item. Even I'm at the stage where I buy a CD, rip it to my MP3 and file it away. A lot of people are still attached to the THING but more and more people aren't.
DrVenkman
16-04-2009, 10:16
The OP's mind will explode if he ever listens to 'Girl Talk'
Special mention to the R&B idiot who reckons that taking Daft Punk's 'Veridis Quo' wholesale, and yowling a few fatuous lyrics over the top, constitutes some sort of musical innovation.
My own fault for spending a morning off work watching E4...
I'm guessing none of you guys have read "The Manual (http://tomrobinson.com/wordpress/?page_id=52)" by KLF then?
Retronana
19-04-2009, 15:12
Britain Got Talent ( oxymoron ?) last night (it was on in the background, honest), kid come on and Ant & Dec say the lad is going to cover Valerie by Amy Whitehouse..:shrug:
I think the subtle use of hook lines and samples as musical tip of the hat is no bad thing, currently the 80's influence is very strong although some handle it well (Calvin Harris ?) and some not so well (Flo Rider...and others)
Ferry Corsten is another Artist/DJ/Producer who IMHO taken some great influence from the 80's and payed the correct level of homage.
L.E.F is worth checking out as an example http://www.ferrycorsten.com/lef/
Silent Voice
19-04-2009, 15:51
Anyone know if credit and royalties go to the original artists?
The royalties go to the Original writer.:)
The only thing that grates with me (and to the Original writer's I expect ) is when they go straight ahead and record the song without their permission ie.Under Pressure by Bowie/Queen when Rapper Vanilla Ice sampled this song without permission for his only hit, the commercially successful "Ice Ice Baby".
His response to criticism relied upon the addition of one note not present in the original, and completely re-recording the bass riff,no doubt he paid afterwards though.:D
The other thing that grates with me is when the artists makes a slight addition of one note not present in the original and therefore is not quite the same as the Original recording ie.Gabrielle's Out of Reach by sampling both True by Spandau Ballet and Bob Dylan's Knocking on Heaven's Door.
I think there is a case where you do not pay any royalties if it is below 30 seconds or around that time.
AndyWilson
19-04-2009, 16:39
I don't think you need the artist's permission to use a sample - you need the permission of the rights-holder who may or may not be the writer or the artist.
DrVenkman
21-04-2009, 12:06
Actually isn't it you need to the rights holder's permission to sell a song with that sample? Like if I sampled a bass line for a song I'd be fine to use it so long as I didn't try making money from it? Isn't that how 'GirlTalk' technically gets around it? You can legally buy 'Feed the Animals' but your actually making a 'donation'. Said 'donation' also happens to bag you a copy of the album on disc.
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