View Full Version : Lost 5x11: Whatever Happened, Happened **SPOILERS**
KennyVader
02-04-2009, 03:29
Yay! An episode that actually answered more questions than it asked I think! Very unusual that :lol:
Closure was brought to what Kate did with Aaron; Hurley and Miles had some brilliant dialogue in an attempt to explain the time travel stuff to the viewing public - was blatantly jammed in there, but very funny, especially the "Back to the Future" reference at the start of the scene :notworthy ... nice touch Miles not being able to explain Ben remembering Sayid ... tremendous nod to the fans there. We got closure on the love quadrangle with Sawyer telling Kate it would never have worked between them, hopefully he and Juliet can skip off back to their happy life now. And we learnt that Richard can do things to people in his temple that makes them come out with no memory :suspect: ... I hope rohypnol is not involved. Very interesting that although we saw MiniBen already hated being in DharmaVille last week, it may have been Sawyer and Kate taking him to the Others that REALLY kicked off Ben's later personality.
Liked Jack's comment, that his first attempt at saving Ben wasn't right and this time he wants to leave it to the island to do it the way the island wants.
So questions this week, we don't know where Sayid has gone, and Charles and Ellie are still on the island in 1977 but Richard doesn't seem to get along with or respect them.
Nice to see BigBen wake up and the look of "WTF?" on his face when he saw Locke back alive :clap:. Seems like although Ben knows a lot about the island's powers, he doesn't quite know or understand everything ...
The Miles and Hurley chat was genius :D
I'm liking the new Jack 'I don't give a toss' Shepherd :thumbs:
Anyone else thinking the worst when Alpert told Kate and Sawyer little Ben would lose his innocence if he took him into the Temple? :suspect: If little Ben comes out of the Temple wearing eyeliner, you just know he's getting more beats from Roger :D
Widmore and Hawking on the island in 1977 as leaders then. Alpert only answers to the island/Jacob :D
See the look on old Ben's face at the end? I guess there are some things he doesn't know! What does this mean? :thinking: Nice setup for next week, which should focus more on their story.
scoobyood
02-04-2009, 06:37
"Dam it freckles... I ain't here to stop you. I'm here to help you" :lol:
... and the momentum continues. Brilliant episode as per usual. I liked that they bypassed the obvious thing of having Jack save him.
Maybe I'm unusually horny at the moment or something, but Kate looked so attractive this week in that jeans and tee-shirt.
If Charles and Elle are on the island somewhere in an 'other camp'. Where is that? Everywhere the other's hung out in before was the dharma stations/camp. Surely if there is a reasonably large group around before/after dharma then there must be another camp we haven't seen yet. Or am I forgetting somewhere?
Also doesn't the fact that Charles and Elle have been referenced as leaders, together, doesn't that sort of confirm Charles is Daniel's father??
cockbongo
02-04-2009, 12:34
Two great looks this week.
1) Sawyer's face when Kate says that Clementine has his smile. Seriously, go back and look - it's an absolute doozy.
2) The FANTASTIC look on John Locke's face at the very end. Ohhh that boy is going to have a field day with Linus.
Lots of gaps filled in - I was personally nodding sagely and agreeing with the writers when we heard Kate say she was going back to find Claire. That's a perfectly good reason which fits nicely with the character, especially with the "nightmares" she had been having. Nicely done.
But at the same time we have a bit of a turnaround in knowing why Jack came back - he's basically saying that he's not entirely sure why he came back himself: presumably he wants to know about his father, but i can't help thinking there's a certain amount of guilt in realising that perhaps Locke was right all along and maybe it's about time he left the thinking to other people...;)
So just Hurley to find out about now then? Looking at that guitar case it must be something to do with Charlie, although he doesn't appear to be in a hurry to do anything at the moment!
Oh, and it occurs to me that Jack's refusal to help young Ben is actually what puts him into the hands of the Others in the first place, so, by not fixing Ben himself Jack inadvertently *makes* him the man he is in the future. The man he knows and hates. Good work writers - both Sayid and Jack, thinking that they're changing things for the better, have helped make things go exactly the way they end up. So much for free will...;)
scoobyood
02-04-2009, 13:35
Oh, and it occurs to me that Jack's refusal to help young Ben is actually what puts him into the hands of the Others in the first place, so, by not fixing Ben himself Jack inadvertently *makes* him the man he is in the future. The man he knows and hates. Good work writers - both Sayid and Jack, thinking that they're changing things for the better, have helped make things go exactly the way they end up. So much for free will...;)
Totally agree. This sums up the Lost awesomeness a nut shell. Jack and Sayid's own willingness to do "evil" for the sake of "what must be done" or because "they don't care" ... is precisely what begets those same qualities in Ben which ultimately has a negative effect on their future.
The way the context for Ben's character and his motivations are slowly being brought into view is just amazing. Jack and Sayid stole his innocence.
People regard the likes of The Wire as "the best TV show ever" ... but Lost is just on another level. It's Shakespearian.. with time travel! I do not doubt that people will be studying this show in a hundred years.
Grandmaster
02-04-2009, 14:01
I thought it was great up until the point where Alpert announces that Ben will lose his memory completely... just too convenient! The notion of him knowing all of this stuff over the decades would have given his evil nature much more context.
scoobyood
02-04-2009, 14:11
I thought it was great up until the point where Alpert announces that Ben will lose his memory completely... just too convenient! The notion of him knowing all of this stuff over the decades would have given his evil nature much more context.
Yeah, that kind of annoyed me too... but we know that he has a thing for Juliet in the future because he remembers her. And that he goes back to live in dharamville for a considerable amount of time. So I think he'll still remember them all. Just not the whole "who shot him" part.. also there's no reason why some one can't tell him that it was Sayid that shot him.. at a later date.
Yeah, the "Ben will lose his memory" part was waaay too convenient & my eyes hurt from rolling so much.
Like last week, this episode didn't do much for me. Zero goosebump moments as it just meandered along, filling in the many plot-gaps with basic, straightforward answers. As mentioned above, Jack & Sayid's actions are the only interesting & non-cliched moments we've had in the last two weeks.
Yeah, the "Ben will lose his memory" part was waaay too convenient & my eyes hurt from rolling so much.
Like last week, this episode didn't do much for me. Zero goosebump moments as it just meandered along, filling in the many plot-gaps with basic, straightforward answers. As mentioned above, Jack & Sayid's actions are the only interesting & non-cliched moments we've had in the last two weeks.
Pretty much sums up my thoughts on this episode, and the last couple actually.
We seemt to be getting back to the 50 minutes of very little happening, and then the odd half interesting moment that will keep you watching until the decent final moment that makes you tune in next week. It all feels a bit 'filler' again, only this season with time travel!
DrVenkman
02-04-2009, 18:25
One of the only Kate episodes I've liked. And shows that Evangeline Lilly plays her part well when they actually give her something to do.
From a character standpoint this was a rich episode. However, 2 things suddenly have me less interested in the show.
1) That no character is actually responsible for anything because everything has "Happened". It suddenly removes tension from things now knowing that to a certain point, the characters are just running through the motions on a pre-ordaned destiny.
2) Ben losing his memory was such a poor poor moment of judgment on the writers part. There's no way they could've sat back and justified that choice. Characters getting Amnesia has NEVER been used to good effect. Not ever.
Preview for next weeks (if its ok to post?)
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KennyVader
02-04-2009, 19:50
Now then, is it going to turn out significant in any way that Ben now has some of Kate's blood running about inside him (from the transfusion that Kate volunteered)? Or was that simply a plot device to get Roger and Kate to chat together?
Maybe Ben's tumor is due to him being topped up with Kate's 2005-ish vintage blood being put into his 1977 body :D
chillster76
02-04-2009, 20:23
Great episode I though. In fairness, in the Hurley Miles scene I think the writers were acknowledging the inconsistancy in the story owing to the (well documented) fact that the story changed a lot when they decided to make Ben a major character. Given how carefully plotted everything else is, I'm prepared to give them a pass on that. Plus of course, throughout the season people have been complaining about poorly explained things that turned out in the end to have reasonable explanations (Kate going back being an example). So may he won't just have sudden amnesia about the O6 being in Dharma ville and the answer will be a little more detailed, and make sense in the contect of everything else that has happened in the last series or so.
I'm not feeling the love for this episode. Tend to agree with TonyG's remarks. I also think it makes the whole "never ask me about Aaron ever again" comment from Kate completely over-the-top melodrama. Why not just say "I've given him to the person he really belongs to"?
And did anyone else think Claire's mom had the worst Australian accent ever? She sounded like Daphne Moon!
Brilliant episodes, even though nothing much happened. Love the nod to the viewers with the Hurley chat, but disappointed at the lame amnesia development.
GAmbrose
02-04-2009, 21:27
Thats the same temple Smokey was guarding, right?
And Rousseau's team all went in to the same temple and came out changed? Or the smoke monster changed them in the hole...
Gary A
marc_angelus
02-04-2009, 22:28
loved the conversation with miles and hurley "huh, i hadn't thought of that.." :D brilliant, basically the exact conversation we've all been having on the forums the past week!
thought it was a bit of a weak explanation as to how come Ben doesn't remember Sayid shooting him when he was Emo Harry Potter, but at least it is explained in a manner of speaking. Richard could have said 'if i take him, it will fill a massive plot hole without the need for any more time being devoted to it, do you still want me to?' and it would have been the same thing :D
slideymoo
02-04-2009, 23:51
One of the worst eps of the season, almost every scene was cringeworthy.
All of this crap about oh he's a boy, we must save him, jack was the only one with a clue.
earl_roberts2002
03-04-2009, 00:43
Classic Lost as in... what would have been most interesting all episode, Kate and Sawyer getting to talk after her last words to him were about to be her explanation of why she came back, is skipped over!
I know it happens all the time, but they're at the van and we next see them in the jungle where the dialogue has conveniently jumped to addressing a plot point and all the unsaid things between them... go unsaid. Surely they'd have asked more questions of each other, dying boy in their arms or not
Half way through the fifth season and we're presented with a non-sucky Kate-centric episode. About bloody time ;)
The amnesia made me wince slightly but I'll reserve judgment until I've seen it all play out. Thoroughly enjoyed it, even if the version I saw was all over the place quality-wise. :|
Kate looking stunning in the supermarket!!! :luv:
scoobyood
03-04-2009, 07:32
All of this crap about oh he's a boy, we must save him, jack was the only one with a clue.
I think you missed the point.. Jack was the douche bag for taking out his dislike of Ben.. on what, at that point, was just an innocent child. If Jack saved him he would never have ended up being evil in the first place. What goes around comes around...
Does anyone remember who was on the "good/bad" list?
Quincunx
03-04-2009, 09:20
Does anyone remember who was on the "good/bad" list?
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Lists
:)
Kate looking stunning in the supermarket!!! :luv:
I was thinking that, stunner.
Great episode again. Back to the Future reference was great
Delta Kneebone
03-04-2009, 09:35
In the previous episode Ben is clearly shot through the heart. We all knew he wasn't going to die but the wound moving to the other side of his body was a bit curious.:)
Coolhand
03-04-2009, 10:42
Absolutely loving this season. Another great ep, with a fair bit of questions answered. Got to agree that the amnesia bit seemed a bit cringeworthy, but I'll wait and see how it pans out, it may not be how it seems.
I also found Kate to be super-hot in this ep. Must be the clocks changing making me all easter bunny.
Professor Abronsius
03-04-2009, 10:50
Surely Sayid, a professional killer, would not shoot so far over to the side at close range! :D
Oh and Kate in the supermarket... :n0rty:
2 the chest 1 to the head.
Sayid is a n00b.
I also found Kate to be super-hot in this ep. Must be the clocks changing making me all easter bunny.Narr, i'm not much of a kate fan at all to be honest, bit of a plane-jane to me, but the outfit she was wearing in this episode made her look increadible!!! :notworthy
Similer thing with Sun, she's a heck of a lot hotter off the Island
Barnacle
03-04-2009, 11:12
Why do all the "hostiles" look like cavemen ? Does Richard and Sawyer have some kind of understanding with each other ?
As for Sayid, being taken down by a female bounty hunter has probably effected is ability in killing people (especially an unarmed child).
basegreen
03-04-2009, 12:56
Kate does look a bit AmericanGeneric(tm) to me but as everyone else said, in the supermarket she looked :o
Given the choice between Juliet and Kate, I'd go for Juliet.
This is because she has bigger norks and also I've seen her naked lesbian session with Angelina Jolie in Gia. :n0rty:
We still don't have an answer as to why Richard looked like a hobo the first time we meet him when he meets young Ben, but in every subsequent episode he looks like he's walked straight out of GQ magazine.
Coolhand
03-04-2009, 13:17
My guess is we'll get a Richard Alpert-centric episode at some point before the end.
basegreen
03-04-2009, 13:21
Given the choice between Juliet and Kate, I'd go for Juliet.
This is because she has bigger norks and also I've seen her naked lesbian session with Angelina Jolie in Gia. :n0rty:
Agreed on the Juliet thing. She gets a lot of love in the basegreen household ;)
scoobyood
03-04-2009, 13:36
Nice. I did not know that was Juliet in Gia... going to have to check that out again now.
Still prefer Kate though... she's just too beautiful, whether in that supermarket dress or just jeans. Plus she went out with that ****** hobbit... so even I'm in with a shot. :p
Captain_Howdy666
03-04-2009, 14:07
Juliet was also a child murdering paedophile in Running Scared.
Grandmaster
03-04-2009, 14:20
2 the chest 1 to the head.
15 in the magazine, 1 in the pipe.
1 in the head 2 in the undercarriage
sleepy67
03-04-2009, 16:10
My guess is we'll get a Richard Alpert-centric episode at some point before the end.Hope so, if only to explain his ever youthful apearance
marc_angelus
03-04-2009, 16:12
Hope so, if only to explain his ever youthful apearance
he does always just seem to show up, then leave again a short while later. Perhaps he has actually got control over time travel, and just flashes in and out whenever he wants, and is always the same age because to him it's only a few days
he does always just seem to show up, then leave again a short while later. Perhaps he has actually got control over time travel, and just flashes in and out whenever he wants, and is always the same age because to him it's only a few days
I like that idea. I mean i've given it no thought and there are probably loads of reasons why it couldn't work like that, but it's the best suggestion I've read for his 'non-aging' that I've read so far. :thumbs:
I like that idea. I mean i've given it no thought and there are probably loads of reasons why it couldn't work like that, but it's the best suggestion I've read for his 'non-aging' that I've read so far. :thumbs:
I think he's going to definitely have been there since the start.
Waiting for some Egyptian shenannigans...
And why is he going to the temple...?
He's going to end up as some chief Priest which would fit in with his number 2 status...
And I reckon that smoke monster will be some sort of temple protection he can control.
I think he's going to definitely have been there since the start.
Me too.
cockbongo
04-04-2009, 02:33
Me too.
Well that's a fairly safe assumption - Juliet said he was "old".
he does always just seem to show up, then leave again a short while later. Perhaps he has actually got control over time travel, and just flashes in and out whenever he wants, and is always the same age because to him it's only a few days.
Good theory. I'd add, he can only travel forward in time. That's why he gets confused with the O6 people zipping backwards in time. Something he can't do.
And I reckon that smoke monster will be some sort of temple protection he can control.
Unless he is also the smoke monster? :suspect:
Good theory. I'd add, he can only travel forward in time. That's why he gets confused with the O6 people zipping backwards in time. Something he can't do.
Unless he is also the smoke monster? :suspect:
:suspect:
The Mummy!
Of course.
Shingster
05-04-2009, 00:19
Is it me or did Alpert look like he had to psyche himself up before opening the door to the temple and stepping in?
scoobyood
05-04-2009, 00:32
Is it me or did Alpert look like he had to psyche himself up before opening the door to the temple and stepping in?
Yes he did. Understandable... he's about to stare down a Jackal. :suspect:
But still no answer to the Jack Sheperd body hair conundrum!?! :nuts:
I thought the scene where Kate was saying goodbye to Aaron was heartbreaking. :cry:
WeaselFierce
05-04-2009, 10:57
Good stuff - Miles and Hurley's talk. Kate's reason for coming back (a huge relief it wasn't just another, "I've changed my mind" cheap shots!)
Bad - Ben'll lose his memory. :nono:
unrealnils
05-04-2009, 11:00
what was kate reasons i fast forwarded her flash backs
GAmbrose
05-04-2009, 11:36
Why would you do that?
Gary A
Captain_Howdy666
05-04-2009, 11:40
what was kate reasons i fast forwarded her flash backs
That was pretty stupid. This time they made sense and were quite necessary
splobber
05-04-2009, 11:45
I fast forwarded right to the end. Anyone tell me what happened inbetween?
Alastair
05-04-2009, 11:49
I fast forwarded right to the end. Anyone tell me what happened inbetween?
lol :lol:
Couple of Questions.
What on earth has happened to Sun and the Pilot ? Last seen paddling to the island.
Also has the old ship been explained yet and what it was doing inland ?
scoobyood
05-04-2009, 14:44
Couple of Questions.
What on earth has happened to Sun and the Pilot ? Last seen paddling to the island.
Also has the old ship been explained yet and what it was doing inland ?
Have you not watched all the show? We don't know the answers to these yet.
There was a theory on the sky tv Ian Lee web show that there could have been a big wave or something which washed the ship inland and broke the statue. But I thought the ship might have ended up there when the island moved.. like maybe it jumped into an area where there was a storm, on top of the ship.
Grandmaster
05-04-2009, 14:58
What on earth has happened to Sun and the Pilot ? Last seen paddling to the island.
And got there, met Christian, told they have a long journey to go on... did you miss/fast forward through that bit? ;)
And got there, met Christian, told they have a long journey to go on... did you miss/fast forward through that bit? ;)
Yep forgot :D. Haven't fast forwarded through an epsiosde this series yet:)
Still waiting for Darlton's promised explantion for the Food supply drops in S2.
I love the way this program appears to have regained stability. All S4 and S5 first half were just too quick, jumping too many places. But now we have reverted to the format of S1-S3, we have a main story with one character flashbacks - and now they are even flashBACKS again, except the present is 1977 and the flashbacks are in 2007ish, really clever stuff.
Only 6 episodes left!
MetalGearAl
05-04-2009, 21:17
Only 6 episodes! Aw man... it sounds odd, but it still feels like nothing really much has happened this season.
Noticed that Kate's hair changed style several times in the scene at the docks, almost with every camera angle change.
Is that just six TV hours, or will the finale be double length again?
Quincunx
05-04-2009, 22:34
Is that just six TV hours, or will the finale be double length again?
6 TV hours and the finale's a double. So 5 more days of Lost.
I loved it. So good how they made Jack's stance the pivot upon which bad-Ben's creation turned :D
Kate was amazing looking in the Supermercado, but I do struggle over whether I'd pick her or Juliet (he he, as if I'd have either!). Juliet, currently, wins.
Excited by what will happen - if we're headed where I think we are, surely Faraday will be involved soon. plus, we sknow he gets back to 200x surely (depressed faraday watching oceana plane under sea)???
KennyVader
05-04-2009, 22:52
Still waiting for Darlton's promised explantion for the Food supply drops in S2.
I'm sure there will be an explanation!
It might be the "Bill and Ted" explanation though, where they deem that Desmond and Lapidus just go back and arrange them all to match his earlier requests, later once he's mastered targetted time travel. "If I order a food drop, it happens because then I have food to live so that means I'll be able to come back later and deliver the food to earlier me" :D
Only 6 episodes! Aw man... it sounds odd, but it still feels like nothing really much has happened this season.
How can you say that! More has been revealed this season than any other season surely! This time last season we were faffing about with a freighter week after week, people getting a bit sick, Daniel shooting rockets about leading people to think "hmmm might be a time warp or something I suppose". This season is shooting along in comparison :D
earl_roberts2002
05-04-2009, 23:17
Only 6 episodes! Aw man... it sounds odd, but it still feels like nothing really much has happened this season.
What he said!
Getting all the little details and tiny glimpses of things and being able to put everything together has been undeniably great but yeah....... still seems like I'm waiting for something big to actually happen that's gonna knock me over
Some of you are ******* mental! :cuckoo: :nuts: "feels like nothing really much has happened this season" I guess hopping through time, getting the Oceanic 6 back to the island, Juliet and Sawyer infiltrating and living with the Dharma Initiative for over 3 years and setting Ben on his future evil path just isn't enough for you! :nuts:
plus it looks like we're about to discover excatly what The Temple is all about... I mean come on, what do you want if not this?!
MetalGearAl
06-04-2009, 08:01
I said "it sounds odd", because I know plenty has happened. It's just I'm still just after their purpose on the island, hopefully that will come about by the end of the season, particularly what Jack has to do.
I said "it sounds odd"Oh yeah! :doh: Soz! :)
douglasb
06-04-2009, 08:15
I hope Jack doesn't become the Starbuck of Lost.
MetalGearAl
06-04-2009, 08:39
Meaning?
I'm not sure I like the new hippy Jack. Surely he'd be incredibly ****** off to be told he HAS to go back to the Island because "bad things have happened", only to be sat in a commune with no idea what to do than to sweep floors. At least Sayid is still making something of himself.
I hope Sayid has gone off to find Danielle!
douglasb
06-04-2009, 09:02
Meaning?
That they know what they're going to do with him.
AdamBrunt
06-04-2009, 09:03
I hope Sayid has gone off to find Danielle!
That would be cool BUT ... it's bad enough that might being going with "memory wipe" to explain how Ben doesn't remember Sayid. How are they going to explain Danielle not remembering him as well ?
As for this episode, loved it ... the Miles/Hurley conversation was fantastic (especially when Hurley asked the same question this forum has been asking all week) and the look on Ben's face at the end was :thumbs:
Although, if Ben didn't expect Locke to be alive when they got back to the island why bother taking him back in the first place :?:
GAmbrose
06-04-2009, 09:24
Danielle didn't arrive until 1988...
Or did you mean Daniel (Faraday)?
Gary A
As Kate and Sawyer headed off to find Richard, I thought about the conversation they might have with him (if they understood the rules). "Take this boy and look after him... we know for certain that he's going to be okay, but you've got to look after him anyway." It would sound like some sort of enigmatic prophecy. It made me wonder: have there been any prophecies or future predictions delivered to our characters before? On the Island, I mean, in 2004? It occurs to me that there's no reason that our heroes, when in the "present", couldn't have interacted with visitors from the future (ie people from post-2004 returning to 2004).
So just Hurley to find out about now then? Looking at that guitar case it must be something to do with Charlie, although he doesn't appear to be in a hurry to do anything at the moment!
Also Ben (who got beaten up, probably at the marina, before boarding the plane) and Daniel (who saw young Charlotte in 1974 but has gone off somewhere by 1977).
I think the writers were acknowledging the inconsistancy in the story owing to the (well documented) fact that the story changed a lot when they decided to make Ben a major character.
This was mentioned last week too. As I understand it, there was always meant to be a leader of the Others (who presumably would have been the character we know as Ben). All that happened was that they brought in Michael Emerson to play Henry Gale, with the thought that he'd run off after a few episodes and they'd have the option to either (a) give the big reveal that he was the leader, and his name was Ben, or (b) reveal a new actor as Ben. The choice was simply down to whether they liked Emerson enough to have him play Ben. I've never read anything to suggest that the concept of Ben as a character was a new invention at that point.
Excited by what will happen - if we're headed where I think we are, surely Faraday will be involved soon. plus, we sknow he gets back to 200x surely (depressed faraday watching oceana plane under sea)???
We don't know that -- the implication at the time was that Daniel was watching that news report before he went to the Island. (Although it's certainly possible that he'll get back and we'll find it was in his future, or he doesn't get back but it's due to a time-travelling consciousness like Desmond.)
I hope Sayid has gone off to find Danielle!
Good luck to him -- he'll have a long wait as she won't turn up for over a decade.
bugger! :doh:
too many timelines! brain fried! :nuts:
Meaning?
I'm not sure I like the new hippy Jack. Surely he'd be incredibly ****** off to be told he HAS to go back to the Island because "bad things have happened", only to be sat in a commune with no idea what to do than to sweep floors. At least Sayid is still making something of himself.
Yeah I agree here - that conversation Jack had with Kate i think it was when he said Locke/Bentham told him that after he left the island some very bad things happened. Considering in real time, the time between jack leaving and Locke leaving (when he turned the wheel) was only, say, a week, nothing "really bad happened" in my opionion.
The island started skipping in time, Charlotte died (but Locke wasnt there to see that), couple of them had a nosebleed. Big deal ?
An example of bad writing unfortunately to create a good cliffhanger for Season 3.
scoobyood
06-04-2009, 10:26
I would hardly call jack a hippy, he just doesn't care any more. And he's happy about it, not ****** off. He's even fine with Sawyer being in control. He got on the plane because he hit rock bottom and had nothing left. So he's now along for the ride and becoming the fatalist... just... like... Locke.
Plus, and I think it's been said before a couple of threads ago... they were all rolling around in agony and on their way to death when John left... one of the small group had already died. As far as John knew, he left to try and save them, they were still jumping around in time and might die when he went down the well. That's not to mention all the other people who were killed with fire arrows or got lost in time along the way! How much worse do you think it could get??!?
MetalGearAl
06-04-2009, 10:27
That they know what they're going to do with him.
I mean I don't understand your reference? Starbuck?
GAmbrose
06-04-2009, 10:33
Battlestar Galactica.
If you didn't watch it then it will make no sense. And theres no way the Lost writers will do anything as bad as that!
Gary A
MetalGearAl
06-04-2009, 10:33
I would hardly call jack a hippy, he just doesn't care any more. And he's happy about it, not ****** off. He's even fine with Sawyer being in control. He got on the plane because he hit rock bottom and had nothing left. So he's now along for the ride and becoming the fatalist... just... like... Locke.
Plus, and I think it's been said before a couple of threads ago... they were all rolling around in agony and on their way to death when John left... one of the small group had already died. As far as John knew, he left to try and save them, they were still jumping around in time and might die when he went down the well. That's not to mention all the other people who were killed with fire arrows or got lost in time along the way! How much worse do you think it could get??!?
I guess I always imagined it as something more epic and danger of biblical proportions, something of nightmares (much like how the 'monster' acts).
As I've said before in other threads... I've always loved the characterization of Lost but I still don't really "buy" Jack's character change. I'm not going to get any more info out of the show about it, that's just what they've done with it. It's fair enough but it's just left the experience a little hollow for me.
Still love the show, don't worry :thumbs:
douglasb
06-04-2009, 10:36
The writers of Battlestar Galactica dropped a lot of balls, but none more so than with Starbuck - who instead of being one of three characters going on a genuine journey (alongside Roslin and Baltar) just became this person who acted according to however the writers needed her to act, depending on the episode.
Given Jack's pivotal role as the 'leader' early on, I hope his journey isn't totally forgotten about. I don't think it will - I think they'll successfully pull everything back in ... as long as they don't say "Oh, everything happened because that's how God wanted it to happen" ....
new forms
06-04-2009, 11:06
I thought that when this season started, the show was really on fire but over the last 2-3 episodes I think it's lost a little something. While it's still a must watch i think what I'm really missing are the characters of Faraday, Desmond and Locke.
Those guys are the heartbeat of the show and the real interest to me, as soon as the focus returned to jack, kate, sawyer I started feeling my mind glaze over, its still a massive improvement over the previous season but I'm hoping from next week we get more of the characters you got this season off to a great start
GAmbrose
06-04-2009, 11:30
Sawyer is really interesting now, Jack...not so much but he's taken a backseat really which isn't a bad thing. Whoever said he is mirroring how Locke was after the 815 crash is right though, he now does have faith in the Island.
I do miss Faraday though, really need to find out what happened there.
Gary A
Shingster
06-04-2009, 11:33
I'm not sure I like the new hippy Jack. Surely he'd be incredibly ****** off to be told he HAS to go back to the Island because "bad things have happened", only to be sat in a commune with no idea what to do than to sweep floors. At least Sayid is still making something of himself.
Jack's got the right idea, the island's always been in control, so the best thing to do is to keep a low-profile and wait for the island's plan for him to fall into place. Sayid's just in a futile struggle against the tide of fate right now, shooting Ben was an utterly pointless gesture.
As already mentioned earlier, it's interesting that the returnees were assuming the role of another Oceanic passenger (Sayid/Kate, Hugo/Charlie. Locke/Christian), and now Jack has in some ways turned into the new John Locke of the group, the one who believes in the Island as an active entity.
Shingster
06-04-2009, 11:43
... the Miles/Hurley conversation was fantastic (especially when Hurley asked the same question this forum has been asking all week) and the look on Ben's face at the end was
Was I the only one who cringed through that conversation? It was didactic to the point of genuinely insulting the intelligence of the viewers and wasn't nearly as funny as people are making out. 30seconds was all the writers needed to explain the time travel paradox, but they just kept going on and on and on.
Shingster
06-04-2009, 11:54
As I've said before in other threads... I've always loved the characterization of Lost but I still don't really "buy" Jack's character change.
What more could the writers do to convince you? All through the series he's been constantly stressed out leading the Losties through a series of perillous and downright bizarre circumstances, he then eventually succeeds in leading some of them off the island and his life gradually goes to hell in the "real" world. As scoob says he hit rock bottom, becoming a depressed alcoholic on the fringe of a pyschotic break, all while seeing visions of his deceased father and other portents that they should never have left the island in the first place!
I don't think you get a more developed and deliberate reason for a personailty change than that! :nuts:
Is anyone else a big fan of the music on this show? Giacchino's just gone from strength to strength on this season, and especially this episode - I'm thinking of the variations on Ben's theme in particular, from menacing to mysterious to tender, and branching off into variations for Roger and the Others.
BSG's music always gets raved about, but for me the Lost stuff is considerably more emotive and consistent (and a lot less derivative, it has to be said...)
Shame this guy doesn't document his working process in the same way.
scoobyood
06-04-2009, 12:09
Was I the only oe who cringed through that conversation? It was didactic to the point of genuinely insulting the intelligence of the viewers and wasn't nearly as funny as people are making out in this thread,. 30seconds was all the riters need to explain the time travel paradox, but they just kept going on and on and on.
Miles should have drawn a diagram.. :lol:
From the next episode.. (spoilers!)
Hurley: So we go back to the future, and we stop Ben from turning the time wheel?
Miles: We can't, because if we travel into the future from this point in time, it will be the future of this reality, [indicates in chalk the alternate reality, 2004A] in which Widmore is corrupt, powerful, and not married to Daniels mother any more, and in which this has happened to me! [holds up newspaper reading "MILES STRAUME COMMITTED"] No, our only chance to repair the present is in the past, at the point where the time line skewed into the tangent. In order to put the universe back as we want it and get ourselves a good reality, we have to find out the exact date and specific circumstances of how, when, and where young Richard Alpert got into that temple.
Hurley: I'll ask Jacob.
Note: Not really a spoiler.
Xenomorph
06-04-2009, 12:12
You know we should probably start watching the episode names in the titles... they are a bit spoilery really.
Silver Jet
06-04-2009, 12:18
Lindelof & Cuse have said that this episode marks the end of the middle act of this season, so i guess the pace will pick up again in the next episode.
I get the feeling that whoever enters The Temple gets 'infected' somehow by Smokey, like Rousseau's team. Maybe this explains the ultra dedication to the Island cause of some of The Others and also stuff like Alpert's seeming immortality and Ethan's super-strength. Those who enter The Temple come back not quite human.
new forms
06-04-2009, 12:54
Sawyer is really interesting now,...
He was until Kate came back but now I'm worried she's put the knackers on him, hopefully they wont go too much further down the love triangle route
GAmbrose
06-04-2009, 13:16
I don't really see it happening, theres been a few glances but he said to her specifically that he is with Juliet and has changed.
Gary A
MaxNutter
06-04-2009, 15:43
So questions this week, we don't know where Sayid has gone, and Charles and Ellie are still on the island in 1977 but Richard doesn't seem to get along with or respect them.
Widmore has to still be on the island in 1977; didn't he say that it was Ben who tricked him into leaving?
Another vote for Kate in the supermarket ... very foxy in that skirt! :luv:
Highlander
06-04-2009, 16:34
Widmore has to still be on the island in 1977; didn't he say that it was Ben who tricked him into leaving?
He was mentioned when Sawyer and Kate took Ben to Richard. Someone said don't you want to check with Charles and Ellie (or something like that). Presumedly Charles is Charles Widmore? and Ellie is Mrs Hawking?
Walrus Man
06-04-2009, 16:35
If Widmore is still on the island in 1977, what does that mean for Penny?
She was obviously born before then, so is she on the island too?
robzinski
06-04-2009, 17:11
If Widmore is still on the island in 1977, what does that mean for Penny?
She was obviously born before then, so is she on the island too?
Oooh, good call.
scoobyood
06-04-2009, 17:47
If Widmore is still on the island in 1977, what does that mean for Penny?
She was obviously born before then, so is she on the island too?
Yeah, that's an interesting one... she's clearly not evil (for want of a better word) so she has a "soul"/"innocence" or whatever they call it. If she is on the island in 1977 and is a hostile why would she not be evil like the rest? Maybe it's because she is just a child and not gone through the temple initiation... Maybe her mother is Ellie and we'll see her leave with Penny as a girl.. while preggars with Daniel... ? Maybe that's after the "incident". The timing is right.
That actually has given me an idea for reason why the babies don't survive and the rest of the season. Maybe this would fit in with other things..
Right... New human life can't be created on the island after the "incident". The incident happens at the wheel (where we saw Daniel at the start of the season. I thought before that the incident happens at the swan.. but I'm not sure now). Dan works out how they all can get back to their time... he does something at the wheel, they travel and the island gets stuck out of time like it was before... but only slightly (Dan's time delay and bearing in season 4) that means the island is in two times and once and the laws of physics don't allow matter to be created that could span two different times at once. That would unbalance the mass of the universe depending on where that person decided to go. For people born/conceived elsewhere that matter is already balanced... *
So many questions, so little time. We basically have one "full seasons" worth of episodes left. I hope that is enough.
*Weirdly... no, I'm not high right now. :D
cjanderson
07-04-2009, 08:50
well i enjoyed it, loads of stuff covered off, about aaron and people sayinng things that usually they don't to each other (wished The Aus woman had said Aaron is Jacks's nephew though)
I want to see Daniel, find out what happened to him. and Miles seems quite happy to just be on the island, no desire to escape. surely they would have tried once to escape?????? at least one of them, even if its 30 years wrong, better to live in LA than on THE ISLAND.
Art Vanderlay
07-04-2009, 08:56
Was I the only one who cringed through that conversation? It was didactic to the point of genuinely insulting the intelligence of the viewers and wasn't nearly as funny as people are making out. 30seconds was all the writers needed to explain the time travel paradox, but they just kept going on and on and on.
I thought it was very funny personally, though that may be because my wife paused it half way through to do an impression of Vizzini in the iocane poison scene from The Princess Bride and pointed out how much it reminded her of that :lol:
even if its 30 years wrong, better to live in LA than on THE ISLAND.
Call me weird, but I'd love to live with the DI circa 1977. Maybe as a VW camper mechanic. Preferably with Juliet.
Shingster
07-04-2009, 11:49
About Penny, I guess the most likely scenarios are:
1. She was born on the island but never "corrupted"
2. Widmore fathered her off-island. (We know at least Alpert was making visits to America before the 1970s).
3. She was concieved on island but her mother moved off-island to give birth.
4. She's not Widmore's daughter.
The most puzzling aspect is how was she raised? If Ben really did trick Widmore into leaving the island then that would suggest he was on the island until Ben was older, and so Penny was raised on the island and should have memories that may have become dormant like Charlotte's, or she was raised off-island by a mother and not by her father. Could that be the reason Eloise left the island?
What year are the Losties currently in? 1975 is it? That would make Penny 33 if she was born that year. I'd say she's at least that age now, most likely 37ish.
Maybe that child we assumed is Charlotte is actually Penny? She'd be the right age and would fix the age goof!
Except that Widmore is not part of Darama.
AdamBrunt
07-04-2009, 12:15
On the subject of Ellie ... Ben doesn't know that she is the one who can point out where the island is (given his reaction when Locke said Christian had told him to find her) so (a) why is Ellie looking for island ? (b) if the assumption about Ellie and Widmore is right (ie at least one of Penny and/or Daniel is their children) what caused them to both leave the island (and did they leave together) ? and (c) why does Widmore not know what Ellie is doing ?
Also, if Ben did trick Widmore (and Ellie ?) into leaving the island when did he do this ? Assuming Penny is born is next couple of years - how many years was Penny on the island before Widmore / Ellie leave ? Surely Widmore wasn't tricked by a Ben as a child ?
Yeah, that's an interesting one... she's clearly not evil (for want of a better word) so she has a "soul"/"innocence" or whatever they call it. If she is on the island in 1977 and is a hostile why would she not be evil like the rest?
Who says the Hostiles are evil? I thought Richard was saying that the revival process would cause Ben to lose his innocence, and incidentally he would now be one of the Others; I didn't think he was implying that the loss of innocence was what made one an Other as such.
What year are the Losties currently in? 1975 is it? That would make Penny 33 if she was born that year. I'd say she's at least that age now, most likely 37ish.
1977
Except that Widmore is not part of Darama.
No, he's one of the Others and Richard said he's on the Island. (Sorry, I may be missing your point.)
GAmbrose
07-04-2009, 12:54
i.e why would his daughter be seen in the DHARMA village when Widmore is an Other.
Gary A
I'm rubbish at this aren't I! :doh:
cockbongo
07-04-2009, 13:56
Call me weird, but I'd love to live with the DI circa 1977. Maybe as a VW camper mechanic. Preferably with Juliet.
Yum. Now that would be a life worth living. :thumbs:
GAmbrose
07-04-2009, 14:30
Elizabeth Mitchell who plays Juliet is pretty smoking hot considering she is nearing 40.
Gary A
Shingster
07-04-2009, 16:50
Who says the Hostiles are evil?
I doubt they're evil, some of them (ie: Ben) appear amoral, but all have demonstrated rather "human" traits. I'd certainly never describe Alpert as evil, but they all do seem to be capable of pretty ruthless acts, so the comment about loss of innocence makes sense to me and could definitely be applied to all the true "hostiles" we've seen to date. Mind you, it's kind of hard to seperate the true hostiles from the "others" though, as clearly people like Juliette have never been introduced to the temple (or at least that's what the writers would like us to believe....).
I thought Richard was saying that the revival process would cause Ben to lose his innocence, and incidentally he would now be one of the Others; I didn't think he was implying that the loss of innocence was what made one an Other as such.
Here's how he put it:
If I take him, he's not ever gonna be the same again. What I mean is that, he'll forget this ever happened and that.. his innocence will be gone. He will always be one of us.
I'd say that would suggest that the loss of his innocence is what will specifically make him "one of us, always".
1977
Definitely safe to assume she's already been born then.
KennyVader
07-04-2009, 18:59
i.e why would his daughter be seen in the DHARMA village when Widmore is an Other.
Gary A
Maybe he had secret liaisons with the girls from Dharma while LaFleur wasn't watching the cameras.
William Shatners Wig
08-04-2009, 07:16
Or she was kidnapped and raised as his own. :D
Or she was kidnapped and raised as his own. :D
Could she be Ben's childhood friend?
Ben would be quite a bit older, so unlikely.
I don't know, yeah there's an age gap but I don't think it's that great that they couldn't be friends does it? Could it be her that Juliette reminds Ben of?
There could still be more to Penny, Juliette and Sarah (Jack's wife) looking so similar. :thinking:
GAmbrose
08-04-2009, 09:59
Ben and his friend who gave him the wooden carvings of dolls were roughly the same age when they were little (Within a year of each other)
Gary A
I doubt they're evil, some of them (ie: Ben) appear amoral, but all have demonstrated rather "human" traits. I'd certainly never describe Alpert as evil, but they all do seem to be capable of pretty ruthless acts, so the comment about loss of innocence makes sense to me and could definitely be applied to all the true "hostiles" we've seen to date. Mind you, it's kind of hard to seperate the true hostiles from the "others" though, as clearly people like Juliette have never been introduced to the temple (or at least that's what the writers would like us to believe....).
Here's how he put it:
I'd say that would suggest that the loss of his innocence is what will specifically make him "one of us, always".
I thought the "loss of innocence" thing was like Adam and Eve with the apple. The Temple somehow gives people knowledge of the island, thus indoctrinating them into the Others. That's why Rousseau's people seemed to know a bit more after they had been dragged into it.
GAmbrose
08-04-2009, 10:43
But they also tried to kill a pregnant woman...
Gary A
Shingster
08-04-2009, 11:01
Exactly, the "loss of innocence" simply has to be something that removes your ability to view right and wrong as black and white, there's no way it simply means you know the secrets of the island, as all the "true" hostiles (bar richard and Eloise IF she is one of them) have demonstrated a willingness to kill without hesitation or consideration.
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