View Full Version : Is it still worth buying Criterions ?
I have a relatively small collection of Criterions and I am starting to wonder if they are still as collectable as they used to be.
Silence of the Lambs was reissued last year.
Monty Pythons Life of Brain has been released with an even better version coming later.
Robocop has been release in the last week or two.
Mona Lisa is due for release on the 25th of Feb
The Long Good Friday is due for release on the 11th March
And the list goes on, my main gripe is the newer verision all seem to have better sound tracks 5.1 instead of mono in some cases.
If Criterion do a disc of a film you like, buy it.
If Criterion do a disc of a film you don't like, don't buy it.
charlie angel
14-02-2002, 17:41
They're worth buying if they're the best version of the film available - & that's the only reason.
Same as discs from any other company.
At the end of the day, if you really like a film, all you can do is buy the best version that is available at the time.
In time, better versions might come out, but that is always the case.
I'd never buy a Criterion just because of the label. I really like Akira Kurosawa films. I bought the Criterion Seven Samurai because it is one of my favourite films and it was the best version available, but when it came to Yojimbo, I got the R2 BFI version because it had a full commentary track (unlike the Criterion which had commentary for key scenes only).
I know that there are plenty of people who got the Criterion despite knowing that the BFI version was superior.
Just my 2 cents. :)
Joe Pasquale
14-02-2002, 18:46
Originally posted by Grumpy
Monty Pythons Life of Brain has been released with an even better version coming later.
Is this for certain? It's not even OOP yet, (seeing as THE ONE AND ONLY R2 version has been done), the R1's don't get redone until the rights pass over, do they?
I'll still be buying 'Rushmore:CC' at one stage though, highly unlikely to get a R2/4 SE.
Michael Brooke
14-02-2002, 19:21
<B>I got the R2 BFI version because it had a full commentary track (unlike the Criterion which had commentary for key scenes only). </B>
The Criterion doesn't have a commentary at all.
<B>I know that there are plenty of people who got the Criterion despite knowing that the BFI version was superior. </B>
If we're talking transfer quality, this seems to be a matter of opinion - the sad fact is that <U>none</U> of the three current versions of <I>Yojimbo</I> is especially good, and by all accounts the Criterion just about has the edge in terms of the transfer - though there's not much in it.
Oh, and I bought the Criterion because it came out about a year before the BFI disc - which of course is another reason for going for particular labels!
playaslaya
15-02-2002, 02:19
I think it's more of a case that more of the other DVD companies are finally stepping up to the challenge of producing good quality DVDs. I don't think Criterion's quality has dropped as such just that the competition is getting better. As is the case with most DVDs nowadays a little research is required to determine the best release regardless of which ever company produces them.
kerbcrawler
15-02-2002, 09:06
I do like buying my Criterions but would not buy one regardless. That said I will stick with my CC Silence Of...; Life Of Brian & Robocop because I am very happy with these versions and see no reason to upgrade.
However I am torn with some titles - do I go CC or BFI? Cocteau's Beauty & The Beast is one such title (your opinions appreciated) as is Yojimbo (thanks for the above guys) and Sanjuro (anyone?).
It does seem to me that CC versions of older movies (pre 1980) are less likely to be bettered than their contemporary counterparts (SOTL, ROBOCOP etc). That said the upcoming version of Traffic and hopefully also The Game will be something really special.
In the meantime this months DVD shopping bag is purely CC classics - Lord Of The Flies, The Orphic Trilogy, and Spartacus. Quite a contrast to December's Baise Moi!!
I would agree in whole with Playaslaya. The walls are coming down every day. Criterion's status as DVD nirvana has been eroded a little of late but I still think they are an essential part of the market place.
It's perhaps a little disappointing that recent releases such as The Vanishing, Last wave and Withnail and I were disappointing but these can be offset by masterful reproductions of Notorious, Rebecca, Les Enfants du Paradis, Sullivans Travels and the upcoming Rashomon. Can we honestly say that mainstream studios are likely to expend effort on such pictures.
Granted more populist titles like Mona Lisa, Withnail, Armageddon have received virtually identical if not, much improved versions and that competition is welcome. However in reverse look at the woeful attempts by mainstream studios to release Criterion classics. The bare bones 'Last Temptation of Christ', 'Spartacus', 'Rushmore' and 'Billy Liar'.
Criterion are not the sacred lamb they once were but if your interests lie in anything vaguely outside the mainstream then along with Anchor Bay they remain the bees knees for any serious collector.
Michael Brooke
15-02-2002, 09:35
I have absolutely no loyalty to any one distributor, and invariably go for the best version I can find, but the number of Criterions I own is in the high double figures – which speaks volumes.
What’s great about Criterion is that because of their reputation, and the quality backing that reputation, other distributors seem to be trying to match them – and that can only be good news for the consumer, especially as Criterion-quality labels like Hong Kong Legends and the Russian Cinema Council cater for niche markets that Criterion couldn’t possibly hope to tackle in the same kind of depth.
Of course, the downside is that it’s getting increasingly harder to determine what the best version is – a year ago we had two crap versions of <I>In the Mood for Love</I> to choose from, but next month we’ll have two outstanding but different editions when Criterion release theirs!
baconjoe
15-02-2002, 12:06
Don't buy them at all.
I bought one the other day, and was surprised to find that I actually hadn't bought it at all! What I mean is that I actually bought it from the shop, but arrived home and found out that what I thought I had bought actually hadn't ben bought by ANYONE - least of all me!
What a rip-off...I'll never buy again!
Originally posted by baconjoe
I bought one the other day, and was surprised to find that I actually hadn't bought it at all! What I mean is that I actually bought it from the shop, but arrived home and found out that what I thought I had bought actually hadn't ben bought by ANYONE - least of all me!
Eh?
Gareth Flynn
15-02-2002, 12:24
Snuffy - what was your problem with 'The Vanishing'? I thought it looked and sounded marvellous, despite a single instance where there appeared to be a couple of missing frames. Is it the lack of extras that you're referring to?
Michael Mackenzie
15-02-2002, 13:10
Originally posted by Grumpy
I have a relatively small collection of Criterions and I am starting to wonder if they are still as collectable as they used to be.
Silence of the Lambs was reissued last year.
Monty Pythons Life of Brain has been released with an even better version coming later.
Robocop has been release in the last week or two.
Mona Lisa is due for release on the 25th of Feb
The Long Good Friday is due for release on the 11th March
And the list goes on, my main gripe is the newer verision all seem to have better sound tracks 5.1 instead of mono in some cases. It's swings and roundabouts really. The Criterion version of The Silence of the Lambs has a completely different set of extras from the newer MGM release, for instance.
The main problem with Criterion discs is their cost. If you do invest the money, however, they tend to be a much closer experience to the cinema than your average DVD, simply due to the texture and "feel" of the film stock. If that's your thing (it's certainly mine), I think they're worth it. However, if you prefer a spotless print, you should probably look elsewhere.
Originally posted by SimonI
Eh?
Seconded.
Also the Criterion Collectors are also in for a shock as the news item here shows.
http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/index.cgi?page=News&id=2786
If you forked out major dosh for some of the oop titles, like 400 blows or the john woo titles (these alone come to £400+ on ebay).
these re-released versions make oop collecting about as risky as the stock market.
Colin
Tristan H
15-02-2002, 15:21
Originally posted by baconjoe
Don't buy them at all.
I bought one the other day, and was surprised to find that I actually hadn't bought it at all! What I mean is that I actually bought it from the shop, but arrived home and found out that what I thought I had bought actually hadn't ben bought by ANYONE - least of all me!
What a rip-off...I'll never buy again!
:confused: :D :confused:
Originally posted by Gareth Flynn
Snuffy - what was your problem with 'The Vanishing'? I thought it looked and sounded marvellous, despite a single instance where there appeared to be a couple of missing frames. Is it the lack of extras that you're referring to?
Granted Gareth the print quality and presentation were without fault. I think the problem comes when Criterion, who have set such high standards, take cult and equally widely anticipated films and yet do not add any great value to them.
Criterion's pricing structure can lead many to expect something extra special both in terms of picture quality and supplemental material. All I would say is the word 'Criterion' on a disc is no longer an exclusive tag for the highest quality.
The danger comes when many, rightly or wrongly, see Criterion and expect the earth. Competition is healthy and Criterion are right to look anxiously over their shoulder at the opposition
Personally I love the Criterions I own and I will continue to buy them because I feel quite often they are the best versions available.
I will stick with the Criterion versions I own however it does annoy me when newer 'special editions' replace older dvds (not just Criterions) because we all like to own the best versions and to keep updating your collection is crazy. How many version of the Mummy and the Matrix are there now available ? It's not fair on Joe Public to spend their hard earned cash on a dvd only to find it replaced a few months later.
I wonder if the oop Criterions will keep there value as both Robocop and Silence of the Lambs were changing hands for fairly good money last year and now you can pick them up for a lot less. Have we seen the last days of dvds changing hands for silly money, Hard Boiled $275.00, The Killer $310.00 and Salo $400.00 anyone (Prices from Amazon.com.)
Joe Pasquale, I'm sure I read somewhere that a better version is to be release in the future and the Python team for some reason are not happy with the new version (or did I dream it)
I love the Kurosawa films and that genre and I have considered buying the the Samurai Trilogy can anyone recommend these films/dvds please.
Thanks
Originally posted by Grumpy
Joe Pasquale, I'm sure I read somewhere that a better version is to be release in the future and the Python team for some reason are not happy with the new version (or did I dream it)
The Python team aren't happy with the current DVD because A) It's pan-and-scan, and B) There are no special features.
I should imagine it'll be the Criterion supplements on a UK disc, but I can't see what else they'd want to add, though. It's Director Approved by Terry Jones as it is.
I seem to remember their unhappiness was something to do with royalities ?
jroadley
15-02-2002, 19:49
I'm buying Criterions left right and centre. Great discs, they are expensive but are very collectable. Its helped me with my world cinema as well buying Italian/Swedish/French films that I wouldn't dream of buying if released on a smaller label (And the risk of not getting the restoration/presentation they deserve)
Again, Criterion rule :D
Indeed, I'm a staunch Criterion supporter.
They've introduced me to some of my all-time favourite films - Brazil, Mona Lisa, Children of Paradise, Written on the Wind, Carnival of Souls, Rififi, Billy Liar - and provided me with some of my favourite films in superb editions - Walkabout, Do The Right Thing, Peeping Tom, Sullivan's Travels.
For me, all their discs simply get everything right - the packaging, the quantity and content of the supplements, the look of the transfer, the ease of the menus, even the chapter selections are well-titled and chosen.
I absolutely love Criterion's DVDs, and have always had them in my collection, right from my first purchase. To me, they mean a superb film (so far, in my experience, without exception, I've enjoyed them all) with an exemplary presentation, and that is worth the extra few quid in my book.
I've just started purchasing Criterion DVDs and will collect their releases as long as it is the best version currently available. I certainly don't envisage buying them all despite the spine numbers. For example, I doubt that I'll buy the Brief Encounter Criterion when I'm perfectly happy with the R2 Carlton release.
As for the OOP discs, if people want to spend hundreds of pounds/dollars acquiring them, more power to their elbows. Personally, I'm pleased with my R2 Momentum anamorphic transfer of Sid And Nancy (with booklet and audio commentary from Alex Cox not present on Criterion's release) and might pick up the BFI release of Salo sometime. At least that has some extras, and Criterion's release of Salo is allegedly one of their weaker efforts. Conversely, it seems it's also the most expensive DVD in the world!
As for Yojimbo, would anyone say that the Criterion had the best transfer? I realise that the BFI disc is probably better value for money.
Thanks.
Tristan H
15-02-2002, 20:57
I'm a huge Criterion fan as well and will continue to support them. I don't mind paying extra for the discs as they are almost always fantastic. It's not the extras that interest me, it's the films that they select and the care and attention that they give to their restoration. I also think that the Criterion covers are second to none. Like Narshty, I have discovered a huge array of stunning films that I would otherwise have never bothered with: L'Avventura (the best film on the Criterion label IMHO); Seven Samurai ; Grand Illusion ; Rififi ; The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie ; Mon Oncle etc
Just today I received Sisters , Le Trou , Les Enfants du Paradis and Playtime.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm going to start to focus my collection on Criterion, Anchor Bay etc and cut away a great deal of my modern blockbuster style films as I've learned that it's these fantastic films that Criterion select that I keep coming back to.
That's not to say that there aren't other great DVD producers out there, it's just that I think Criterion are the best for my personal taste.
Cap'n Al
15-02-2002, 21:59
I'm (unusually) going to sit on the fence about this one a bit. It's impossible to deny that such editions of films as <i>Brazil, Spartacus, Notorious, Rebecca, La Grand Illusion, Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie, The Red Shoes, The Third Man, Life of Brian</i> and <i>Last Temptation of Christ</i> are all truly excellent, and worth paying any reasonable amount of money for.
On the debit side, an awful lot of their discs simply don't have supplementary material that's as interesting, thought-out or well produced as the ones listed above (<i>The Rock</i> instantly springs to mind), or alternatively have little more than a trailer and some (admittedly interesting) production notes, and are still priced at £20 or so.
The oft-mentioned 'better editions' is a moot point; yes, superior versions of <i>Robocop, Withnail and I</i> and <i>Armageddon</i> might exist (although some would argue that the old versions are as good or better), but there is no denying that Criterion did a good job, or as good a job as could be expected, in the first place.
I'm not going to blindly buy a disc just because it's a Criterion- I bought a few on that basis, and was disappointed more often than not. Nevertheless, I eagerly await such discs as <i>Traffic</i> and <i>The Game</i>, and I'm sure that they really will go from strength to strength, because they are one of the best DVD producers out there, albeit not quite as far ahead of the competition as they once were.
Michael Brooke
18-02-2002, 10:13
<B>On the debit side, an awful lot of their discs simply don't have supplementary material that's as interesting, thought-out or well produced as the ones listed above (The Rock instantly springs to mind), or alternatively have little more than a trailer and some (admittedly interesting) production notes, and are still priced at £20 or so. </B>
Bare-bones Criterions cost under sixteen quid from ********* - and their defence of their RRPs (which I support) is that you're helping subsidise special editions that cost an absolute fortune to make.
I also disagree that "an awful lot" of their discs are lacking in the quality of supplementary materials - true, quite a few are effectively bare-bones, but for me <I>The Rock</I> is one of the exceptions: if the discs have extras at all, they're usually first-rate.
I agree - I watched Notorious the other night and after the film browsed through some of the extras. The short news footage of Hitchcock and Bergman arriving at Heathrow was a gem - short, insightful and with some stunning shots of Bergman. How many producers would include something like that on a disk?
I've sold two of my Criterion collection I won't be buying anymore.
Kevin Harper
20-02-2002, 15:37
As many other have said - it comes down to if the Criterion edition is the best one to go for. I have HAMLET (1948) which is a far superior print to the R2 version even but is a bare bones edition. THE THIRD MAN is quite superb and again better than the R2 print although this has very similar extras.
If the Criterion turns out a better version BUY IT - if they don't THEN DON'T BUY IT - simple as that !
kerbcrawler
20-02-2002, 15:44
Well I just recived my CC editions today of Spartacus and Lord Of The Flies and I am a very happy bunny indeed!:clap:
adamvbarker
20-02-2002, 18:44
Good reviews at DVD Times suggest that the new R2 versions of Tokyo Drifter & Branded to Kill are now better options than the Criterion versions, since the new ones are anamorphic.
Originally posted by Cap'n Al
On the debit side, an awful lot of their discs simply don't have supplementary material that's as interesting, thought-out or well produced as the ones listed above (<i>The Rock</i> instantly springs to mind), or alternatively have little more than a trailer and some (admittedly interesting) production notes, and are still priced at £20 or so.
Balls. Their supplements might be eccentric or offbeat, but I've never been bored by any of them. And I reckon The Rock is a superb special edition, as it really does show the sheer manpower and effort it takes for one of these super-slick blockbusters to get on the screen, and how seriously those working on them take them (Ed Harris throwing a ****-fit during the Outtakes is an example).
In my opinion, they've got the best DVD producer in the world on their team - Susan Arosteguy, responsible for discs like Chasing Amy (http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/index.cgi?page=Review&id=104&story=1772), Notorious, The Beastie Boys Anthology (http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/index.cgi?html=y&id=reviews/other/BeastieBoysAnthology.html), Rushmore (http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/index.cgi?page=Review&id=472&story=1339), Carnival of Souls (http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/index.cgi?page=Review&id=577&story=), Fiend Without A Face (http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/index.cgi?page=Review&id=421&story=2477), Rebecca (http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/index.cgi?page=Review&id=449&story=2500) and plenty more (here's an interview (http://www.dvdshrine.com/interviews/criterion.shtml) with her, by the way)
Originally posted by Michael Brooke
Bare-bones Criterions cost under sixteen quid from ********* -
Not anymore, sadly. They're all £18 now and special editions are £25, since ********* have seen fit to bump the prices. :mad: :brickwall
vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.