View Full Version : Battlestar Galactica 4x22 - Daybreak pt2 *spoilers*
Well, not as awful as I was expecting. Some very cool moments (opera house redux, Baltar's "I'm a farmer" scene, drunk old men in titty bar) but not enough to cover over the flaws inherent in making it all up as they went along.
In short, worth watching, but I liked it better when it was called Stephen King's The Stand. That had a poor ending too.
fattyboombatty
21-03-2009, 04:39
it's not episode 4x22. it's 4x20 or if you're being anal 4x20 and 4x21.
More of a "I have seen this before anyone else" post.
Well now I have seen it myself...
The battle with the Cylon Colony was over far far too quickly really and they (Cavil) did give in suddenly and his end was out of character imo.
Hard to believe that around 40 thousand or so humans would just go Yup OK then lets abandon all our technology. How did they destroy the last raptors etc?
So it is implied then that Baltar did not have any kind of implant or whatever that allowed him to see a six, that there really is a god and "angels" of which Starbuck was one.
Am I the only one who thought that a baseship jumping in at the very end would have been cool?
Not a bad end to a flawed series.
Terribly_Mauled
21-03-2009, 07:53
GIGANTIC interivew with Moore, Olmos and McDonnall on the finale.
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/03/battlestar-galactica-daybreak-finale-moore-mcdonnell-olmos.html
Most interesting is the following:
MR: I understand the network’s needs, but I wish we’d seen it all at once. That first hour really works best as part of a whole.
RDM: Well, that’s the thing. I argued very long and hard against doing that. It was not written that way. In fact, when I wrote the script, it was not even written as acts [i.e. Act 1, Act 2, Act 3]. I wrote the script as a two-hour movie and it was meant to be seen that way. But it was one of those things where it was like, “Well, they’re giving you the extra money…”
MR: "So just shut up."
RDM: Just shut up at a certain point and move on. They wanted, for their own scheduling purposes, they felt that people were just not going to commit to tuning in at 8 p.m. for a show they were used to seeing later, nobody watches a three-hour movie, everybody watches a two-hour movie, blah blah blah. Episode 21 [“Daybreak, Part 1”], it’s not an episode. It’s a completely unsatisfying experience. I know that, because it was never intended to be [on its own].
MR: It’s just the first act of a play.
RDM: It’s the first act of a play. It doesn’t make any sense, it doesn’t have a coherent arc to it. It’s just a chunk that’s been broken off. I did manage to get them to agree to show all three hours this Friday. My hope is that some people will watch all three or at least they’ll watch them all together. It’ll live forever on DVD and they’ll watch it that way, and that’s the way it was always intended to be seen.
Agree with the above - the action was over far too quickly. I fast forwarded through the talkie Adama/Roslin bits, very boring. They spent too much time on the new earth.
So after all that, what was the significance of Hera?
She was the mitochondrial eve, the earliest found DNA match for "humans".
Terribly_Mauled
21-03-2009, 08:02
... (Cavil) did give in suddenly and his end was out of character imo.
Just reading from the above link...
RDm: Cavil killing himself came from Dean Stockwell. [in the script, Tigh was supposed to fling him over the edge of a higher level in the CIC.] Dean called me himself and said, "You know, I just really think that in that moment, Cavil would realize the jig is up and it's all hopeless and just put a gun in his mouth and shoot himself.
Drysolder
21-03-2009, 08:33
First hour was utterly engrossing, kinda petered out towards the end, and agree with Katee Sackoff that Starbuck got short changed.
But the rest of the colony and the indigenous population were surely responsible for populating the Earth, so she really had no significance to the survival of the human race.
She was the mitochondrial eve, the earliest found DNA match for "humans".
Well it was implied/stated by the "angels" Baltar and six that they knew who that actual discovery was and that she was found with her cylon mother and human father.
As soon as you saw BSG pass over a cratered surface I went "arrrggghhh they have found the real (our) Earth and I bet its in the past"
Surely they would have kept some basic technologies? Guns for defence? A means of easily starting a fire? An axe?
Terribly_Mauled
21-03-2009, 10:15
I've bravely dived into the aintitcool talkbacks to laugh at the haters, but found this EXCELLENT literate post lost in the mire. Its from the point of view from someone who loved the finale, but since its an AICN talkback it is accusing as usual to those who didnt like it. So don't be taking offence anyone!
I'll quote it. Bit religious obviously, but it sets out everything in the episode.
Starbuck is Jesus. Ron Moore confirms this possibility.
Not "our" Jesus, but a Messiah, who is part-divine, part-human, who's destiny it is to lead humanity to their salvation.
She died. We know this is true. It was proven through her necrotic blood.
She died. She was resurrected by God, or the Divine Will that guides the Universe.
The In Heads are Angels, seen by a select few, but intangible.
Kara, like Jesus after the resurrection, was body and spirit, tangible to everyone.
After her journey complete, like Jesus, she ascended into heaven body and spirit, or the ether, or whatever is on the other side, as Anders said at the end.
You just don't get it. And if you hate it, I seriously pity you.
Kara had to take them to "original" Earth so they can witness the proof of the Cycle of Human-Machine Violence, so Lee would be able to come to that point to abandon it, the technology that out-races their souls.
Seriously, to hate such a hopeful and wonderful and peaceful ending, that you can have science and technology, but there are still things out there that are unexplainable by our science, a Divine Presence, God or Gods, what have you, that guides us but lets us have Free Will to either make the same mistake or to finally make the right decision...
... it's so hopeful, and not at all the fatalistic world-view of those like Cavil, who had no faith in a life after death, so he killed himself to avoid the pain of death, because all he had was his life. Cavil was empty and fatalistic, much as someone like me sees Richard Dawkins.
To have no faith, whatever your faith is, is to have no hope. Those with faith were delivered. Those who didn't, weren't.
This show outstrips ANYTHING that Star Trek ever was, because it is unafraid to admit that there is something out there greater than us, who guides us, that it isn't some alien sowing the seeds, or a cosmic coincidence, that there is a Divine Will, or Wills.
This show is the greatest, because it wore it's declaration of faith squarely on it's sleeve.
If you hated this ending, you are Cavil.
sleepy67
21-03-2009, 10:26
She was the mitochondrial eve, the earliest found DNA match for "humans".Nope. Mitocondrial Eve is the name given to the woman from whom everyones Mother can trace their ancestry back to. However it does not mean that there weren't other woman around at that time nor that their descendents all died out leaving no trace with modern people.
Mitocondrial DNA isn't the DNA that we inherit from both parents but comes only from the mother and is part of the energy cycle within almost all cells. Its not the nuclear DNA that determines eye colour, hair colour etc etc.
If they wanted to match real history then around 50K BP human speech developed significantly in the Great Leap Forward (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_modernity#Great_leap_forward) but it doesn't make Hera important.
sleepy67
21-03-2009, 10:27
First hour was utterly engrossing, kinda petered out towards the end, and agree with Katee Sackoff that Starbuck got short changed.Yep, I kept looking at the clock after the first hour wondering howe they were going to fill the last 20 odd minutes
I, well, I loved it. Early on I thought they can't fail to make this amazing because of the set-up of going into the Colony. That was done quickly, but well, and the Opera house sequence etc. was all melded well. Then it kinda went messy - if Baltar / Caprica's 'God's plan' was to have 2 civs with resurrection, why did that fail? Seemed like they weren't going to finish their multiple plot strands.
Eventually tho I was very, very satisfied with what happened. They took a surprising route (i.e. spending half the show on new Earth, rather than having that as the end etc.) to me but tied up many (all?) strands in a coherent way - the Head six etc., God's plan, Laura / Bill, Kara. Really made me well up inside a few times, too.
I loved the final bit, too, where it was our Earth and the question about whether we would go to war as before, or if in a Matrixy-type way we'd get the surprising mathematical result :)
Awesome. I thought.
IndianaJones00
21-03-2009, 11:31
Galactica sailing off into the sun with the original BSG music playing almost made me :cry:
I have to admit I didnt see that ending coming, I was sure they were going to do a blind jump and being so close to the black hole would have caused them to go back in time or something but Kara figuring out that the music held the coordinates to our Earth and then all the survivors deciding to settle there to give rise to our civilization is a good ending too.
yep, loved it, good ending, possibly the best one they could have got away with without upsetting too many people.
The rescue was amazing and excellent. Not sure about Starbuck being an angel (I can buy head six and balter as angels) i would have liked a better explaination.
Drysolder
21-03-2009, 13:09
Galactica sailing off into the sun with the original BSG music playing almost made me :cry:
Yeah, and actually I think even that specific tracking shot is a homage to the original opening titles.
One thing I didn't mention earlier is Bear McCreary's contribution to the series, and this season in particular - he's been the one constant, and the emotive soundtrack for the finale really took some points to another level - look forward to reading the blog of the whole Daybreak episode.
Sprout Crumble
21-03-2009, 13:28
Fantastic end to what, IMO, has been one of the finest television series ever created.
Will be sadly missed and no doubt replaced by another bit of brain-dead bull-****.
More of a "I have seen this before anyone else" post.
haha wtf? Do you say that every time someone starts a thread about a TV show episode? :lol:
it's not episode 4x22. it's 4x20 or if you're being anal 4x20 and 4x21.
I'm not anal enough to keep track of episode numbers. Seasons are normally 22 episodes. If you want to blame anyone, blame whoever compiled this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Battlestar_Galactica_(re-imagined_series)_episodes
AndyHall
21-03-2009, 15:33
I'm not anal enough to keep track of episode numbers. Seasons are normally 22 episodes. If you want to blame anyone, blame whoever compiled this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Battlestar_Galactica_(re-imagined_series)_episodes
That counts "Razor" as episodes 1 and 2 of season 4, bumping everything else up by two...
Terribly_Mauled
21-03-2009, 15:38
Razor was part of the Season 4 production order. Regardless of the fact that it isnt narratively part of season 4, the way tv works means it has to have 4x01/02 assigned to it for all sorts of admin purposes. It doesnt help that the Production Numbers have been carried over to listings guides and the like.
Anyway, wasnt this a good episode? I wish I had seen it! :lol: ;)
PaulieC79
21-03-2009, 15:45
Well, I liked it. Certainly need to watch all the 3 parts together again. For a show that was made up as they went along they tied it all together pretty well. The Opera House stuff was well done and I thought all the characters got good endings. I was really expecting the Centurions they'd set free to jump into orbit when it went to the present day, start nuking stuff as it faded to black!
So did they blow most of the season's special effects budget in a satisfying way then?
I shouldn't have watched the latest South park before this, when he turned around after Kara disappeared I expected to hear "I'm over here now."
It wasn't bad, in fact it was better than I thought it would end up, and I loved the original Galactica music, but as others have stated it also showed all the negative hallmarks of making stuff up as you go along coming home to roost. Certainly, to my mind, nowhere near the quality of the other recent finales of shows I liked, The Wire and The Shield (speaking of The Wire, how come that's the only show on American TV that's doesn't have horrible drunk acting).
Also I wondered if RTD had co-scripted the ending scene.
Wasn't overly impressed by this. Seemed to tie up loose ends rather quickly and in a way that could have been done weeks ago. Other bits just dragged on.
Would like to know why the Galactica took so long to fire. Adama told them to fire straight away, but the Cylons seemed to have a good minute of solid firing before someone even got off their backside.
Cavel was wasted. Gave in too easily and then was over in a flash.
Nice resolution regarding Cally.
Liked the original centurions and the original music :)
Too many Cylons running about though so hard to tell who was with who. They did seem to go down a bit quicker than usual (i.e. during the New Caprica episodes etc they were a lot tougher against bullets, unless they've got new armour piercing ones?)
How did they escape with Hera anyway? They were told their ship had been destroyed, yet ended up mentioning they were going back the same way they had come and then suddenly appeared on Galactica. Seemed sloppily handled if they had picked up a heavy raider or something.
so in the words of Lucy Lawless - "wizard did it" ;)
I actually quite enjoyed the finale but I can see the point of anyone who thought it was a cop out.
Trying to get into my head stuff that God did:
Sent head versions of Baltar and Caprica Six so they'd be in the right place at the right time and gave them lots of handy hints on how to survive.
Edited the temple of the five from its original function.
Switched on the final five for some reason so they remembered they were cylons (not quite sure what the purpose of that was - what actually was the point of the final five in the end?).
Resurrected Kara (and ship) as Jesus with amnesia (fair enough)
Sent messages to Hera so she could tell Kara the location of EarthII (does beg the question if Kara was the resurrection why didn't God just tell her to start with).
Transported Kara's charred remains to Earth I so she could find them and question what she was. Also so they could find Earth I in the first place.
Oh well, I'd rather be decended from Adama et al than a telephone sanitiser.
Taq
fivebyfive
21-03-2009, 16:59
it was good but not the best finish to the show as they had to fix the "make it up as you go along"
it was the landing on new earth, giving all the defensive tech and spilting up didn't seem right as they didn't know if any of cavil's baseship would go after them (they only destroyed the colony not any of the baseships they jump in and out)
Also what happened to D'anna?
She stayed on Earth I. The rest of her model was still boxed I think
Terribly_Mauled
21-03-2009, 17:31
How did they escape with Hera anyway? They were told their ship had been destroyed, yet ended up mentioning they were going back the same way they had come and then suddenly appeared on Galactica. Seemed sloppily handled if they had picked up a heavy raider or something.
Galactica had rammed the colony, just went through the airlocks ;)
LeftHandedGuitarist
21-03-2009, 17:42
Stunning I thought, wonderful ending. I cried several times :) I will miss this show like hell and will probably post more after I've digested it all.
Grandmaster
21-03-2009, 18:44
It was pretty good, but the pre-holocaust bits still seemed pointless and for the most part could've been removed with zero effect on the way the plot played out.
I'm not sure that the Head Six explanation entirely worked for me either. Didn't she spend most of S2 saying to Baltar that Hera would be 'their baby' or something like that? That's what the opera house vision seemed to be saying but it turned out that it actually meant that she wouldn't be their child at all, and instead would be handed back to the real parents at the earliest opportunity!
Also, the explanation of Starbuck and her father and who he may have been turned out to be no explanation at all either, unless you buy into the theory that the post-resurrection Starbuck had memories implanted by God. Where did the music actually hail from and why did it activate the final five?
Terribly_Mauled
21-03-2009, 18:47
Where did the music actually hail from and why did it activate the final five?
God again.
Also, the implication the show makes is that Dylan is in the zone too all these thousands of years later. :nuts:
Xenomorph
21-03-2009, 19:24
I was waiting around for Adama running around in a loincloth :(
On balance I didn't hate it... but it could have been so much more.
sleepy67
21-03-2009, 19:33
Can you imagine the bitiching and the recriminations when the people realise after a few days camping on a strange new planet that power and hot water and soft beds and drinkable water and no bugs and no predators and working toilets and showers are advantages of technology not to be lightly dismissed. Want to bet that within a couple of years the majority of them are dead from infection, starvation, predation, child birth and accident.
Oh and if you want to avoid making the mistakes of the past then forgetting your history isn't the smartest move.
fivebyfive
21-03-2009, 19:35
God again.
apparently it does not like being called that ;)
also Taq: I think your right
Terribly_Mauled
21-03-2009, 19:36
Yup, all the other D'Annas were on the Hub when it blew. Silly thing should have kept the faith dammit, but then I guess she may have been expensive?
So what did they do with the Raptors? Send them on autopilot into the sun as well?
Defintely taking a chance with the Cylons. Throwing away all technology and allowing a machine race to keep all theirs + give them 150,000 years to evolve even further can't be that good a thing.
Becoming President of the Colonies was a good job. What did that last, five mins?
Would have been nice to know what happened to Caprica etc.
Sure there will be a movie sometime in the future.
Spooksta
21-03-2009, 19:42
Very nice. But they would never give all that tech up. Some would but not 40 odd thousand or however many were left.
I'm glad its all over at last!
Loved it, loved it, loved it. Really loved the fact that it didn't fade to black once we realised that they'd found 'our' Earth. Loved the 150,000 years later bit too! Not often you see that on the screen!
Some unanswered questions though... like Kara Thrace supposedly leading mankind to destruction... well it didn't seem so???
At least we know where the term 'Gaelic' comes from - Galen was heading off into the sunset to a cold uninhabited island off a northern continent.... that explains why us Irish are so belligerent!
PS Took me bloody ages 'acquiring' this... and by the time I had it, I missed Ireland winning the Grand Slam because BSG had to take priority... no regrets mind, it was the right choice.
LeftHandedGuitarist
21-03-2009, 20:31
Been running this all round in my head constantly since seeing it. It's really affected me. I'm going to miss this show a lot, I started watching it 4 years ago right after I had been dumped and was living in a house share with people I didn't really get on with. Battlestar immediately grabbed me with it's distinctive style and I remember becoming very engrossed very quickly and loving the actors they had chosen. I remember involuntarily backing away from the screen in the scene where Starbuck admits to Adama she caused Zack's death and literally jumping up and shouting at the season 1 cliffhanger.
The show's been through it's ups and downs over the seasons but I've never seen the angle that many people here seem to take, I've never found it anything but sublime in its characters and plots. I agree there have been episodes which seem to completely waste time and times when everything seemed to lose focus and characters were sidelined but everything in these past few weeks has made up for that. This show was never about action and space battles for me, it was the character interaction and the world they inhabit.
I watched the finale as a full 3-parter and it was an event. I was a completely emotional wreck at the end and feel very satisfied with the conclusions to the character's story arcs. The final 150,000 years later scene was wonderful and throughout the entire episode(s) the music was once again key to just leaving me gobsmacked. I'm really happy that little details were addressed such as Tyrol's revenge for Cally's death and Boomer's final redemption.
There was some great laugh-out-loud moments but quite a lot of moments that made me emotional, notably:
Roslin thanking Doc Cottle
Anders: "I'll see you on the other side."
Adama giving his ring to Laura
Starbuck's moving on
Baltar's line: "You know, I know about farming."
I love the fact that to the end the show kept a mystical angle and ended with a note about faith and hope. I was expecting a very dark ending and for a while it looked like that would happen, but this was much more satisfying. Baltar was my favourite character from the start and I'm relieved that his story arc didn't end in a bad place. I find it interesting that one of the earliest explanations we were given about Head 6 ("I'm an angel of God sent here to protect you") turned out to be pretty much correct.
I don't quite understand why everyone went their separate ways at the end, leaving poor old Lee all alone. Surely his dad could have come back, or at least built his cabin with him? Kara's disappearance took me by surprise but I also found it completely charming and it felt right.
Favourite moments not mentioned above:
Use of the original theme music as the fleet disappears into the sun
Galactica ramming the colony
Galactica buckling as it completes it's final jump
All the flashbacks to Caprica
Tyrol snapping Tori's neck
Racetrack and Skull's demise
The final shots accompanied by Jimi Hendrix
and of course:
Lee's 80's action hero hairdo
Goodbye Battlestar, by far and away in my opinion the best thing that's ever been on TV, and the show that caused me the most stress, anxiety and joy I've ever known. I need to watch the whole thing through again with someone who's not seen it before. This thing really got under my skin and I'm going to miss it like frak.
Loved it, loved it, loved it. Really loved the fact that it didn't fade to black once we realised that they'd found 'our' Earth. Loved the 150,000 years later bit too! Not often you see that on the screen!
Some unanswered questions though... like Kara Thrace supposedly leading mankind to destruction... well it didn't seem so???
At least we know where the term 'Gaelic' comes from - Galen was heading off into the sunset to a cold uninhabited island off a northern continent....
PS Took me bloody ages 'acquiring' this...
A Cylon Hybrid, speaking to Major Kendra Shaw moments before their deaths, warns her that Thrace is the herald of the apocalypse and the harbinger of death, that she would lead the human race to its end, and that she is not to be followed (Razor). Similarly, another Hybrid describes her as the harbinger of death, and she would lead them to salvation and destruction (Faith).
Bit of a reach I suppose how they've made it come true, but I feel they rushed the last few episodes when they could have structured the last season better.
Kara lead the human race to their end.
Didn't say she'd kill them.
But she did bring death to the cylons...I suppose. Those nukes at the end killed the colony although they cut bits out.
Reading that sparked off in my head Adama = Adam...?
Can't believe that smug **** Helo survived. :mad:
Sprout Crumble
21-03-2009, 21:10
If I was shagging her I'd be bloody smug as well.
anephric
21-03-2009, 21:14
What, Boomer? She looks like a twelve-year-old.
This was okay. The best bits were the character stuff, mainly Adama/Roslin's, but I didn't buy into the faith/angels schlock one bit when they tried to tie it all together, and the coda with Six/Gaius/angels/whatever was HORRIBLE.
Watch out Aibo is out to get you!
So who was this God and why doesn't he like being called God?
I thought this was fairly poor for many of the reasons mentioned by others.
- tens of thousands of people giving up everything, yeah why not eh? Apollo expecting to have a fair bit of leisure time by the sounds of things, he's gonna get a shock.
- The Colony only being destroyed thanks to the Random Floaty Hand of Fate, was ****.
- The Head characters being 'angels' was poor, as was the whole 'god' explanation. It's just too easy to blame random plot inconsistencies on god or 'his plan'.
- Why all the characters decided to split up is beyond me, makes perfect sense to spread what few resources and skills you have as thinly as possible.
- Apparently FLT jumps only damage nearby ships when it's a useful dramatic plot device, the fact is later dropped when necessary.
- Letting the Centurions fly off on their own was just bizarre.
- The flash backs were still weak. If they'd have happened during the previously 1st season they may have meant something, but seeing them only a week before the finale was stupid (particularly Sam's as his was clearly meant to be most prophetic).
- I thought the black hole + FLT jump was going to do a timey wimey thing and fling them back to Earth1 (our Earth) before it had been inhabited and later nuked, and they'd start from a blank slate and the cycle would be complete. But instead they're all going to be off shagging tribes people.
I did like the resolution of Cally's death, one of the few 'wow' moments in the episode for me.
Did we ever find out who the FINAL final Cylon was?
Lee's hair.
Cottle speechless.
Baltar in commando outfit.
Bill Adama vomiting.
That was pure class. :thumbs:
Best. Show. Ever.
I suppose in hindsight we should have seen the ending coming. After all, the original BSG was based around the ideas in the book Chariots of the Gods which speculates that the human race received a leap in evolution thanks to otherworldly intervention and that we're all decended from Spacemen.
I'm glad the series didn't do a standard ending (they all die, or the good guys win) but wished several aspects had been better explained (where did they dump the remaining tech, Kara - angel or not, where are the remaining cylons). Like the throwaway comment from Galen about heading to a small island in the north too.
Also am i right in thinking it was Ronald D Moore reading the paper (with angel Baltar and 6 looking over his shoulder) at the start of the 150,000 years later segment?
Was anyone else expecting this version of the scene:
Lie Detector Bloke: Are you a Cylon?
Bill Adama: No.
*Lie Detector needle starts going bonkers*
*everyone just jumps up, OMGs, he was a cylon after all, wot da frak, etc, etc?*
Was anyone else expecting this version of the scene:
Lie Detector Bloke: Are you a Cylon?
Bill Adama: No.
*Lie Detector needle starts going bonkers*
*everyone just jumps up, OMGs, he was a cylon after all, wot da frak, etc, etc?*
Yeah, i was expecting that too. Would have made for a fantastic twist ending.
anephric
21-03-2009, 22:55
Also am i right in thinking it was Ronald D Moore reading the paper (with angel Baltar and 6 looking over his shoulder) at the start of the 150,000 years later segment?
Looked like him to me.
It was him, confirmed elsewhere.
When Lee took off his helmet during the rescue attempt, I was overwhelmed with mental images of Ace Rimmer! What a guy!
I really didn't understand the need to show Roslin's back story in the last 3hrs. Did we really need more evidence that she's been through a lot, a tough lady etc...? There were so many more aspects of the shows I would have preferred that run time used on other than that.
The Cally-revenge was excellent. Overall, I'm happy with the ending, if a little unsatisfied with the Starbuck resolution.
Genius
YES I know it was made up as they went along.... but the way they tied those threads? GENIUS...
given budgetry constraints and not knowing if they were renewed from one season to the next... GENIUS...
Fantastic, moving finale.. thankyou RDM and the rest.
If anyone wants to complain (wah wah wah the WIRE wah wah wah)
Name another Sci-fi series that is as accomplished or as effective!
(first to name DS9 gets blown out of an airlock for being insane)
36Degrees
22-03-2009, 00:28
This episode reminded me of Return of the King... massive battle with me going OMG class, then it's over and me kept going "is it over yet"... "what about now?" "oh god please let this be over"
Didn't see the point of the flashbacks to be honest, if I ever watch this show again, I'll probably time the amount of time that there's alcohol consumption, it must be at least 20% of the show.
Credit for wrapping everything up though !
then it's over and me kept going "is it over yet"... "what about now?" "oh god please let this be over"
you know that watching all/any of the episode is optional... you can just run it off at any point..
Well unless RDM is standing next to you with gun at your head
Little_Dragon
22-03-2009, 01:02
Cant believe no-one has mentioned how awesome the centurions going hand to hand was, granted it was only a few seconds. In fact, all the Centurion shots were great during the battle.
Grandmaster
22-03-2009, 04:42
Genius
YES I know it was made up as they went along.... but the way they tied those threads? GENIUS...
given budgetry constraints and not knowing if they were renewed from one season to the next... GENIUS...
In terms of not knowing if the show would be renewed or not... well, if it wasn't, it would've just 'stopped' like the original did. Then doubtless continued in spin-off novels and comics.
As it is, the resolution was good enough but still left gaping holes and contradictions in the overall mythology which were supposed to be explained by "God did it." It's not genius so much as a cop-out. Crucial elements of this mythology turned out to be borderline pointless.
For example, in terms of the overall passage to Earth, just how much did Head Six and Head Baltar actually contribute? I suppose there was that bit where Baltar accidentally pinpointed the weak spot on the cylon base, but otherwise there was practically zero benefit to having the character about at all. Indeed, post New Caprica, Baltar was pretty much entirely superfluous.
He was supposed to be a key figure in the opera house prophesy but that turned out not to be the case at all.
If anyone wants to complain (wah wah wah the WIRE wah wah wah)
Name another Sci-fi series that is as accomplished or as effective!
(first to name DS9 gets blown out of an airlock for being insane)
S1 and most of S2, I would be inclined to agree with you, but I'd sooner watch a whole bunch of other stuff including three different iterations of Star Trek (TOS, TNG and DS9) than subject myself again to S3 and S4 which by and large were incomprehensible and dull, and witnessed Moore disappearing up his own behind and taking the plot of BSG with him.
I still dont get what the deal with the Opera house was. All Caprica and Baltar did was pick up Hera and take her to CIC. But, Roslyn and Sharon were right behind them and would have taken her to safety.
So what the frack was the point? And if you say its so that Baltar can give his "Why cant we all just get along" speech, that ended up being pointless too.
So are we too assume the importance of Hera was that she fracked some natives and started the human race as we know it?
It did seem a bit like "OK, we have no clue how to explain everyting, lets just say God did it and that adds MYSTERY! **** YEAH, AWESOME, WINNER!"
sleepy67
22-03-2009, 07:12
"God did it." It's not genius so much as a cop-out.I think this show earned its deus ex machina, it always there from the beginning as an option stated openly on screen. Plus there were strange coincidences or pieces of luck throughout. Especially Baltar in the first half of the show and Kara in the middle section.For example, in terms of the overall passage to Earth, just how much did Head Six and Head Baltar actually contribute? I suppose there was that bit where Baltar accidentally pinpointed the weak spot on the cylon base, but otherwise there was practically zero benefit to having the character about at all. Indeed, post New Caprica, Baltar was pretty much entirely superfluous.I believe Baltars later presence was to give Lee the idea of going back to nature.He was supposed to be a key figure in the opera house prophesy but that turned out not to be the case at all.This turned out to be a pretty pathetic prediction. Carry a girl into the CIC so that she can be taken hostage whilst a peace is arranged which promptly falls apart within 30s.
Please change the title of this thread.... this was S04E20... wasn't it?
It's over now and to be fair, I'm glad...
I was starting to dislike the show and felt it deserved my respect because of the first 2 seasons.
When they got it right it was perfect, but sometimes the whole humanity thing was laid on a bit thick and certain plot devices were shoehorned in just to progress the story and then forgotten or contradicted.
Liked it though and I'm sure in the future it'll be fondly remembered.
Euripedes
22-03-2009, 08:40
Fantastic end to what, IMO, has been one of the finest television series ever created.
Will be sadly missed and no doubt replaced by another bit of brain-dead bull-****.
Have to agree with this - as far as I have seen there has been nothing to touch it.
zantarous
22-03-2009, 09:31
What can I say that hasn't already been said? If nothing else it was entertaining and adequate and could have so easily gone horribly wrong until you start to look at it closer and it does all fall apart.
What the heck was the opera house about, it has been a feature in the show since S2 and really apart from nice camera work and music it really didn't do anything.
Head Six and Balter? Really that is what they are going with?
Starbuck, no explanation what so ever although the quote from AIC did sum that one up really well so I will just put it down to me being too dense to read between the lines.
Cavil shooting himself in the head was just comical after all that effort to acquire resurrection technology he just sticks a gun in his mouth because two Cylons start fighting?
Everyone agreeing to leave all their technology and creature comfort behind? No way, no way would that ever work and very short sighted by the leaders of these people. Spreading the people was a good idea especially if leaving all their technology behind, if a disease broke out that they could not deal with then not everyone would die, but they seem to have spread themselves way to thin. And did Adama really plan to live the rest of his life alone and not see his son again? Was there some sort of hippy writhing this?
But there was some good stuff:
Watching the Cylons do battle with each other fantastic
The awesome music playing while Starbuck tried to figure out the co-ordinates (does this theme have a name as it seems to pop up quite a bit)
The original music
The Colonels great line to Tory "Yeah yeah you are forgiven for whatever dark secrets you have"
I though the Flashback stuff was really good kind of shows where these people were just a few years ago and where they are now
Great SFX
Balter once again gets to get some decent screen time
I really liked the fact that they carried on for half an hour after most shows would have ended and you get to see a glimpse of life after
The 150 000 years latter, kind of brings you out of show but still a nice addition and showing that the cycle could soon start again
In the end a good show but really suffered from the lets make it up as we go along and really didn't think long term about how to end it all, look at Lost and how they are trying really hard to address that now. B5 still rules as the best space show as that really had a beginning, middle and end. No doubt I will revisit this again when it is the bargain bin.
How the show should have ended.
Baltar and Six look up to the sky. Scene cuts to the cockpit of a NASA space shuttle where two pilots are going about routine checks.
Through the window you can see a Cylon baseship jumping in. Scene cuts back to Baltar and Six who give each other a knowing look.
Also I checked the episode again, Hera is definatley referred to as the mitchondrial eve by the magazine and Baltar and Six.
"Along with her Cylon Mother and Human Father" said Baltar to Six.
edit.
Just watching the final scenes again and when Six refers to Gods plan Baltar says "you know he doesn't like that name" but to me he seems to take it a little too personally. He then smiles and says "Silly me, silly me". Could he be "god"? After all "head" Baltar is only revealed in the last episode.???
fivebyfive
22-03-2009, 10:05
Also I checked the episode again, Hera is definatley referred to as the mitchondrial eve by the magazine and Baltar and Six.
"Along with her Cylon Mother and Human Father" said Baltar to Six.
edit.
Just watching the final scenes again and when Six refers to Gods plan Baltar says "you know he doesn't like that name" but to me he seems to take it a little too personally. He then smiles and says "Silly me, silly me". Could he be "god"? After all "head" Baltar is only revealed in the last episode.???
"Head" baltar has been it before (s2 "download" episode iirc) and they are just "angels"
also I'm sure Hera dead a early age from the bit from the magazine and Baltar and Six probably from rejecting the technology :nuts:
How the show should have ended.
Baltar and Six look up to the sky. Scene cuts to the cockpit of a NASA space shuttle where two pilots are going about routine checks.
Through the window you can see a Cylon baseship jumping in. Scene cuts back to Baltar and Six who give each other a knowing look.
sorry that sounds terrible
also I'm sure Hera dead a early age from the bit from the magazine and Baltar and Six probably from rejecting the technology :nuts:
:thinking: what?
fivebyfive
22-03-2009, 10:16
sorry make a bit clearer for you IN the episode I think Hera died a early age from the scene where head baltar and six reading the magazine, she probably died a early age from rejecting the technology (creating more medicine and have the facilitates of the the ships)
Didn't get that at all from the episode.
Have to agree with this - as far as I have seen there has been nothing to touch it.
I enjoyed it for the most part, but felt that as it went on it got more and more ham-fisted. In my opinion below are some of the shows that I feel easily trumped it.
The Wire
The Shield
Breaking Bad
The Sopranos (Early Seasons)
Carnivale (which ironically got better after Ron Moore left it)
Big Love
Mad Men
Rome
Deadwood
anephric
22-03-2009, 11:37
From S3 onwards, I was enjoying stuff like The 4400 more than this. Honestly. And Regenesis.
Surely a better way to stop the cycle is to have a record of the war and what happened before? By destroying their ships, tech etc... they just end up in the same situation with mankind not learning from it's previous mistakes, forgetting the past and developing tech, continuing the cycle. :doh:
I would also have liked to have seen a glimpse of the Centurians and Skin-jobs 150,000 years into the future too.
splobber
22-03-2009, 11:50
I enjoyed it for the most part, but felt that as it went on it got more and more ham-fisted. In my opinion below are some of the shows that I feel easily trumped it.
The Wire
The Shield
Breaking Bad
The Sopranos (Early Seasons)
Carnivale (which ironically got better after Ron Moore left it)
Big Love
Mad Men
Rome
Deadwood
You can add Blakes 7, Eldorado and George and Mildred to that list.
IndianaJones00
22-03-2009, 12:41
The awesome music playing while Starbuck tried to figure out the co-ordinates (does this theme have a name as it seems to pop up quite a bit)
If this is the music that Anders used to play on Earth and the same music that woke up the final 4 at the end of Season 3 then its 'All Along the Watchtower'
Didn't get that at all from the episode.
The picture on the magazine did look to me like a small skeleton which made me think that Hera died young but lets me honest, they set out into Africa 150,000 years ago with just a backpack, how long did they expect to last lol
As for the whole 'God' and 'Angels' thing, the original series had advanced beings that only certain people could see and those beings eventually helped them find Earth and I assumed Head Six/Baltar and Resurrected Starbuck were this shows take on those beings.
Just watched it the first 1hr flew by, the last parts on earth dragged on a bit, overall i really liked the series - now just waiting for the boxset to be released with all the series togther!
LastoftheFraggles
22-03-2009, 13:04
Was really disappointed with this as an ending though to be honest watching BSG was fast becoming more of a chore than enjoyment anyway. Glad it concluded, can't see myself rushing to rewatch any of Season 4.
Loved Season 1 and 2 once I got into it. 3 overall wasn't that bad but as it went on the whole thing became much more of a convoluted mess and it was difficult to keep track of what was actually going on, or care enough to work it out.
Was much better when it was a simple goodies v baddies space battle show and not some messed up pseudo-religious, political space soap opera.
sleepy67
22-03-2009, 13:32
Didn't get that at all from the episode.One of the angels quoted from the magazine "the body of a young woman"
Hera died young, not surprisingly if you reject technology people die much younger.
Was much better when it was a simple goodies v baddies space battle show and not some messed up pseudo-religious, political space soap opera.
I think the series lost a lot of it's impact when they showed more about the cylons. At first they were this mysterious dangerous enemy with human models infiltrated everywhere in the fleet. After showing more and more of their culture they changed into this really confused bunch that seemed to change plans every week.
It's disappointing looking back to season 1 and 2 and seeing what the show ultimately ended up turning into.
fivebyfive
22-03-2009, 13:43
If Ron Moore planned the show (or at least from mid series 2) the show would of a lot better for it. Also Helo dying in pain would of much much better :D
I don't think the show was ever "simple goodies v baddies space battle show"
zantarous
22-03-2009, 14:01
One of the angels quoted from the magazine "the body of a young woman"
Hera died young, not surprisingly if you reject technology people die much younger.
I would guess most of them died young or at least not lived for as long as they could without access to medical facilities.
Also I guess that the remaining four Cylons are possibly still alive and living on Earth?
fivebyfive
22-03-2009, 14:10
Also I guess that the remaining four Cylons are possibly still alive and living on Earth?
the remaining 3, lived their lives and died like humans as they couldn't d/l to new bodies
also found Q+A with Ron moore about this episode, explains a few things
http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/03/battlestar_galactica_ronald_d.html
(don't think its been posted)
LastoftheFraggles
22-03-2009, 15:18
If Ron Moore planned the show (or at least from mid series 2) the show would of a lot better for it. Also Helo dying in pain would of much much better :D
I don't think the show was ever "simple goodies v baddies space battle show"
Bit of an oversimplification but the balance definitely shifted as time went on and the show got more caught up in the aspects that I had no interest in.
The whole of the 4th series really seemed to serve no purpose other than to fill time till the finale. The finale itself I found really unsatisfying but that might just be that I had lost interest in the majority of characters by then.
also found Q+A with Rpn moore about this episode, explains a few things
http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/03/battlestar_galactica_ronald_d.html
(don't think its been posted)
Interesting and amusing. Basically Kara's dad hinted as being Daniel was an unintentional goof as he wasn't and Moore got confused when the net exploded with theories about Starbuck being half-cylon. Sloppy writing!
He must be incredibly naive - you spend an entire season banging about the importance and mystery of who are the remaining Cylons then introduce the concept of another one near the finale and then follow that up with an episode ramming home that Starbuck's father taught her a Cylon song when she was a kid - and then he's surprised people think there may be a connection. :cuckoo:
zantarous
22-03-2009, 16:19
the remaining 3, lived their lives and died like humans as they couldn't d/l to new bodies
also found Q+A with Rpn moore about this episode, explains a few things
http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/03/battlestar_galactica_ronald_d.html
(don't think its been posted)
So wait the skin job Cylons can die of old age? That is the other thing that I never really understood about them, they are machines yet can have human hybrid babies?
Edit:
Just read that interview that Ron Moore is right up his own ass, on the subject of Kara they decided to make it ambiguous because otherwise the mystery would be gone ie, they had no idea so didn't bother doing anything. And the whole Daniel thing, I think Harsin said it best above but what a waste.
They only thing I can think of is that they need a Cylon character for the Caprica prequel?
zantarous
22-03-2009, 16:52
Ignore
Apostate
22-03-2009, 19:50
the remaining 3, lived their lives and died like humans as they couldn't d/l to new bodies
also found Q+A with Ron moore about this episode, explains a few things
http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/03/battlestar_galactica_ronald_d.html
(don't think its been posted)
So Moore needs to "explain" it? Pity the programme couldn't have made more sense by itself. I'm still confused as to why the fleet thought it a good idea to risk everything to save the child. Oh and Moore needs a haircut.
I fast forwarded through the talkie Adama/Roslin bits, very boring.Seriously? :oh-hum: SERIOUSLY????!!!!!!! :brickwall
I gotta agree with most of the aicn post Terribly_Mauled posted on page 1 yesterday.
I'm not sure I've found a finale THIS emotional in a very long time! I just couldn't stop crying. :cry:
Just frakking brilliant is my verdict and a perfectly satisfying and emotionally gutting wrap up to these characters and their lives. LOVED IT! :thumbs:
LeftHandedGuitarist
22-03-2009, 20:04
I just couldn't stop crying. :cry:
Even thinking about certain moments from it set me off today. I'm such a girl.
But for a show to have affected me that much, it must have done something right.
Mike Mither
22-03-2009, 21:46
Loved it, loved it, even the protracted Return of the King style ending (which even contained similar music!) and also great to see my favourite character, the Doctor, get to do something other than smoke a cigarette and look vaguely amused that everyone else is still trying to survive.
AndyWilson
22-03-2009, 22:14
I enjoyed it, but I'm trying to ignore all the god/angels crap and pretend it never happened...
I'm not sure I've found a finale THIS emotional in a very long time! I just couldn't stop crying. :cry:
Just frakking brilliant is my verdict and a perfectly satisfying and emotionally gutting wrap up to these characters and their lives. LOVED IT! :thumbs:
The Shield's finale was probably the most emotive I've experienced.
I was thinking about that one for days afterwards.
Much, much better than I expected.
Which, sadly, doesn't mean it actually holds together very well but still - best we could have expected given the amount of time they ****** away in the last few weeks.
Some nice moments though would have preferred Galactica herself to go out in a blaze of glory, not get dived into the sun.
And :thumbs: for the telephone sanitiser comment earlier...
This show never recovered from peaking with the Resurrection ship episodes in season 2, the best TV stuff in decades. It was unfair to expect them to keep to that standard. It should of ended then like Heroes should have ended with season 1. The rest is network stuff, drawn out and downhill all the way.
fattyboombatty
23-03-2009, 00:10
I enjoyed the first hour but the second dragged a bit. i was left with a "is that it" feeling after the cylon battle.
GAmbrose
23-03-2009, 00:15
When Galactica jumped in to New Capricas atmosphere in Season 3 to launch a rescue I was in awe.
Sadly I think a lot of subsequent episodes since then have eroded a lot of love I had for the characters and series in general so I didn't enjoy the finale anywhere near as much as the majority of you lot. It wasn't awful but nothing in particular stirred me emotionally.
I'm kinda glad it's finished actually, as it was become a bit of a chore to watch. At least Lost is still going from strength to strength... ;)
Gary A
corkbouy
23-03-2009, 05:04
I preferred this plot when "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" did it...
Terribly_Mauled
23-03-2009, 07:02
Bear McCreary's score blog still isnt up yet, he has been writing it all weekend apparently. He says he'll explain how they extrapolated the Earth Coordinates from All Along the Watchtower though, so may be worth the wait [and the fact the music in this episode was stunning] :nuts:
Yes, boring. They dragged out her demise over weeks and weeks. What more could they possibly say of any interest?
Then there were the multiple sub plots which were total dead ends - Hera, the evanglical Baltar, angel Starbuck (why make her an angel with no concept or what she is or her purpose?), the original quest for earth, the opera house (wtf???).
Don't get me wrong I loved the attack on the colony and the action stuff but by the end my overall feeling was boredom. At least there was no cop out ending.
Seriously? :oh-hum: SERIOUSLY????!!!!!!! :brickwall
I gotta agree with most of the aicn post Terribly_Mauled posted on page 1 yesterday.
I'm not sure I've found a finale THIS emotional in a very long time! I just couldn't stop crying. :cry:
Just frakking brilliant is my verdict and a perfectly satisfying and emotionally gutting wrap up to these characters and their lives. LOVED IT! :thumbs:
Apostate
23-03-2009, 18:18
I'm just glad we got to hear Tigh say "this is the XO" one last time.
I'm just glad we got to hear Tigh say "this is the XO" one last time.
Was hoping we'd get a "This is the VSOP" at least once, but that's probably one for the gag-reel. :thumbs:
A little vid interview about 'The Plan' - there are no spoilers.
<script src="http://www.ooyala.com/player.js?width=480&height=361&embedCode=N0MTJkOqH2YCNrTQmjLpMVov6sOPQ_xt"></script>
fugazied
24-03-2009, 04:07
It was very well done imo, it combined the 2 aspects of the show - intense action + very thought out character driven plots.
SPOILER:
When the cylons were getting the recipe for the resurrection device and the chief saw what the other cylon did to his wife - one of the most intense moments in a TV show I have EVER seen.
All up though, I blame the writers strike for the demise of this show. Season 3 was just so weak because of some poor disjointed writing. From there it was hard to recover.
Well I thought it was a good finale, best tv of all time... no chance there... S1&2 were the pinnacle and it went downhill during S3 and practically all of S4 was an utter chore to sit through.
It did have some good moments (the series) but they were too few and far between for me... the finale did make up for a lot of it and was probably the best we could hope for... I was just glad it's finished now personally.
I admit I found some of it very sad... and there were moments I loved in it (Galactica and the fleet heading towards the sun with the classic theme playing) but I hated the coda at the end and the way characters just went their seperate ways so quickly.
But all in all it was a fitting end to a good series (not a great one personally).
All up though, I blame the writers strike for the demise of this show. Season 3 was just so weak because of some poor disjointed writing. From there it was hard to recover.
Except the writers strike happened during season 4...
I admit I found some of it very sad... and there were moments I loved in it (Galactica and the fleet heading towards the sun with the classic theme playing) but I hated the coda at the end and the way characters just went their seperate ways so quickly.
But all in all it was a fitting end to a good series (not a great one personally).
Indeed. Did we even get a proper goodbye between Tigh and Adama. Obviously I'm not sure where on the Earth they actually ended up but you would have thought Tigh, Lee, Adama would have opted to remain in the same place? Hardly much fun eaking out an existance for the next 40 years without your friends and family.
Apostate
24-03-2009, 15:19
I suppose we must assume Adama topped himself - unless his "not coming back" was more mystical.
Grandmaster
24-03-2009, 18:10
Even with Moore's lame explanation, there's no way that all the Cylons perished in the attack. What about all the Basestars? The Cylons on Caprica? It also beggars belief that having constructed resurrection ships, resurrection hubs - the whole nine yards - that the Cylons wouldn't have the knowledge to re-create them just because they got blown up.
Those things would've required plans, plans that were digitally stored somewhere. Unless the Final Five physically made them with their own hands, the concept that the technology was lost is just ludicrous.
General Zod
24-03-2009, 19:15
Even with Moore's lame explanation, there's no way that all the Cylons perished in the attack. What about all the Basestars? The Cylons on Caprica? It also beggars belief that having constructed resurrection ships, resurrection hubs - the whole nine yards - that the Cylons wouldn't have the knowledge to re-create them just because they got blown up.
Those things would've required plans, plans that were digitally stored somewhere. Unless the Final Five physically made them with their own hands, the concept that the technology was lost is just ludicrous.
It's quite possible that some skinjobs or Centurions survived the attack on the colony, but the skinjobs would probably have died out in a hundred years without resurrection tech, and all the Centurions and Raiders on Cavil's side were lobotomised, meaning that they'd probably be unable to maintain themselves and literally fall to pieces after a while.
As for resurrection tech itself, the Cylons never invented it. It was given to the Centurions by the Five, who rediscovered how to achieve it, and they clearly kept it a secret. Why would Cavil be so desperate to get it from them if he had the information all along?
General Zod
24-03-2009, 19:25
Then there were the multiple sub plots which were total dead ends - Hera, the evanglical Baltar, angel Starbuck (why make her an angel with no concept or what she is or her purpose?)
Er, no. Sounds like you missed a hell of a lot of subtext!
Hera: She was pivotal in giving Starbuck the final piece of the puzzle to achieve her destiny, and played a critical part in breaking the cycle since the final scene with Head Baltar and Six established that she was the ancestor of all modern humanity, meaning that there's no longer any pure humans or pure Cylons.
'Angel' Starbuck: She's more like Jesus or Gandalf! The BSG God (whatever it is) that Head Six and Head Baltar (who are basically angels) were acting for brought Starbuck back, first to lead them to Earth 1 and realise exactly what the cycle was, and then to lead them to a habitable home. When that was done, she departed, presumably to join Anders on the "other side", whatever that might be. That was the destiny that Leoben kept bringing up whenever he met her, and which she finally accepted in Maelstrom before dying.
sleepy67
24-03-2009, 19:54
Hera: She was pivotal in giving Starbuck the final piece of the puzzle to achieve her destiny, and played a critical part in breaking the cycle since the final scene with Head Baltar and Six established that she was the ancestor of all modern humanityWrong. Hera is not the ancestor of all modern humanity, she or more accurately the 8's is the origin of the mitocondria that all present humans derive theirs from. Its almost a certainty that any modern human is not only descended from Hera but every Colonial refugee/Rebel Cylon who procreated. Its just through the vagaries of genetic drift the 8's mitocondrial DNA has come to dominate present humanity.
BTW the Most Common Recent Ancestor for humanity lived only a few thousand years ago ;) not 150,000K'Angel' Starbuck: She's more like Jesus or Gandalf! The BSG God (whatever it is) that Head Six and Head Baltar (who are basically angels)The word 'angel' means messenger. So it's a very apt description of the Head 6 and Head Baltar and the heads that the ff saw back on Earth before whilst they reinvented resurrection.
anephric
24-03-2009, 20:49
As for resurrection tech itself, the Cylons never invented it. It was given to the Centurions by the Five, who rediscovered how to achieve it, and they clearly kept it a secret. Why would Cavil be so desperate to get it from them if he had the information all along?
So they're incapable of reverse-engineering it? About as incapable as we are of reverse-engineering Saturn V rockets, probably.
It's incredibly weak.
General Zod
24-03-2009, 20:58
So they're incapable of reverse-engineering it? About as incapable as we are of reverse-engineering Saturn V rockets, probably.
It's incredibly weak.
From what? The resurrection hub was destroyed, most likely leaving all the resurrection tanks useless. And the Cylons aren't really scientists. All their advanced technology was implied to have been given to them by the 5.
BTW, we don't have the plans for Saturn 5 rockets anymore, and I don't know if there are any actual Saturn 5 rockets left in existence.
Out of the 27 or so endings I liked The Pigeon one the best. :) Can you imagine if it'd faded out at that point!
Great ending, worth the wait, end justified the means etc. etc. (i.e. I'm in the "S4 was a chore" camp).
I'm kinda curious what would've happened if it hadn't all gone wrong in the CIC (other than losing one of the dramatic highlights) because those nukes appeared destined to land whatever so it all would've ended up the same? Was there ever any hope for the two civilisation scenario? I'm probably talking drivel but it's fun to over-think this stuff!
anephric
24-03-2009, 21:17
From what? The resurrection hub was destroyed, most likely leaving all the resurrection tanks useless. And the Cylons aren't really scientists. All their advanced technology was implied to have been given to them by the 5.
BTW, we don't have the plans for Saturn 5 rockets anymore, and I don't know if there are any actual Saturn 5 rockets left in existence.
Pretty much the only reason we "couldn't" (or wouldn't) reverse-engineer a Saturn V is because of ridiculously toxic materials used in its construction that aren't used any more.
Sure, the resurrection hub was destroyed, but how long prior to that did the cylons have resurrection tech for? If you knew you only had one of something, wouldn't you be reverse-engineering the **** out of it?
General Zod
24-03-2009, 21:38
Pretty much the only reason we "couldn't" (or wouldn't) reverse-engineer a Saturn V is because of ridiculously toxic materials used in its construction that aren't used any more.
Sure, the resurrection hub was destroyed, but how long prior to that did the cylons have resurrection tech for? If you knew you only had one of something, wouldn't you be reverse-engineering the **** out of it?
Probably yes, but clearly not in this case since Cavil was desperate to get resurrection tech back. Once the knowledge was gone forever after Tyrol broke Tori's neck, he knew the game was up and shot himself rather than let the Colonials kill him.
Which makes him even more of mong for shooting off the only ones who knew how to make into the colonies.
anephric
24-03-2009, 21:54
The whole thing, she makes no sense!
All of S3 and S4 in two easy minutes.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HXxzVuE_D1k&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HXxzVuE_D1k&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
zantarous
24-03-2009, 22:20
Probably yes, but clearly not in this case since Cavil was desperate to get resurrection tech back. Once the knowledge was gone forever after Tyrol broke Tori's neck, he knew the game was up and shot himself rather than let the Colonials kill him.
I think that is the whole point others are trying to make, the Cylons were the ones that maintained the baseships and resurrection technology, how could they not know how to make more or repair it. The fact that Cavil wanted it so deperatly was just sloppy writing and then well thought out.
It was a surprisingly good finale to the show given the number of threads that needed to be tied up. Those threads might not have ended the way most people expected but at least most of them were addressed.
A good series finale has to do something extra that you wouldn't get from a regular episode. I think this finale did that. The fact that some of the story elements didn't end the way most people would expect them to is probably a good thing - it makes it more memorable and provokes debate. For example, at the time I didn't like the Quantum Leap ending but everyone remembers it.
Given where BSG ended up I think I would have liked the 'Ship of Light' from the original to be part of the show simply because it would have made some of the things the viewer was asked to accept at the end a bit easier.
I own the soundtracks to the first three seasons and the mini series and I was very pleased that almost all of the recurring themes made it into the finale. The music in Battlestar Galactica really does deserve special mention.
I'm not saying the finale was perfect but it did definitely go above and beyond a regular episode (especially given the recent relatively uneventful holding pattern episodes).
Battlestar Galactica is really over. Frak.
Have to say the giving up technology made perfect sense to me, and surprised so many here questioned it.
It was their quest for technology that created the Cylons in the first place, so by throwing it all away was away of breaking the cycle.
Also puzzled about the 'making it up as they went along' thing. Well of course they did, as do all writers:thinking:
I think the show was at its peak from the mini series to mid season 3.
The ending to the mini-series (all those Boomers), series 1 (the old man takes a bullet), and series 2 (Cylons take New Caprica) were stand out finals that reached heights that very few shows reached.
To me the show work best when it was on its 'nothing in war is black or white/good or bad; the only difference being whose side did what.
Once this gave way to all the what is Starbuck, etc stuff it did lose its way.
There were still some stand out moments in season 4, but there were a lot of 'hmmm' ones as well.
Will miss the show and I think it will be a while before we get anything this good in Sci-Fi to replace it.
Have watched the final ep twice now, but I'm still not clear on what Adama's job was, the one he was agonising over taking before his planned retirement?
Workforce
24-03-2009, 23:04
So Hera bones are the first to be found for that period - No one as yet found the other 40,000?
Enjoyed they got to start again, without tech, to try and break the cycle. Even if in reality it was stupidly unbelievable.
Very ****** off with the whole god claptrap, or at least the lack of a proper explanation.
So Starbuck Mk2 was an Angel.
And so were 'head' 6 and Baltar.
And it was all Gods doing.
Riiiiiiight.
So Hera bones are the first to be found for that period - No one as yet found the other 40,000?
I don't know, perhaps what we all think of as "humans" would be a Cylon/human hybrid to the 40,000 people who found their way to Earth. Descendents of the fleet would eventually have Cylon/human 'DNA' (or whatever) but the first one was Hera. I think what the newspaper article was saying was that they had found the missing link, the moment our primitive ancestors became the humans we know today.
Workforce
24-03-2009, 23:32
Ah yes, my mistake (should of watched it a second time) :gag:
Have watched the final ep twice now, but I'm still not clear on what Adama's job was, the one he was agonising over taking before his planned retirement?
Either a desk job or something outside of the service. I don't plan on watching it again and can't remember whether it was mentioned or not. It's just there to reinforce who he is. The only thing I can't figure out is why it and all the other flashbacks were in the finale instead of interspersed throughout the rest of the series - I guess it would have taken too much time away from the hour or so we watched someone play the piano.
Grandmaster
25-03-2009, 04:57
As for resurrection tech itself, the Cylons never invented it. It was given to the Centurions by the Five, who rediscovered how to achieve it, and they clearly kept it a secret.
You don't quite get it do you. Unless the Final Five physically made the Resurrection Ships/Resurrection Hubs themselves, then someone else had to make them. Those someones would be the Cylons. Cylons who would have had the plans for how to make them. The only way for the technology to be lost would be for mass deletion of files, and probably mind-wiping a ton of Cylons to boot... which wouldn't particularly go down very well, would it? And is certainly against the ethos of the Final Five.
Why would Cavil be so desperate to get it from them if he had the information all along?
He didn't have the information all along. The reason he didn't is down to the point I am making: crap, unbelievable story-telling.
sleepy67
25-03-2009, 07:03
BTW, we don't have the plans for Saturn 5 rockets anymore, and I don't know if there are any actual Saturn 5 rockets left in existence.Yes we do and there's one on display at Canaveral
new forms
25-03-2009, 07:05
I thought the finale was ok but coming at the end of a terrible season compared to what had come before made me glad it's over.
Linking it all to 'God' ties it in with the original BSG if I remember correctly as that was all based on the mormon faith or something like that.
What was most interesting to me was that it seemed like they were nicking Losts ending with all the time loop stuff as that could be where lost is headed in its final season. I wonder if the Lost writers were watching this and thinking 'those ************'
General Zod
25-03-2009, 07:43
You don't quite get it do you. Unless the Final Five physically made the Resurrection Ships/Resurrection Hubs themselves, then someone else had to make them. Those someones would be the Cylons. Cylons who would have had the plans for how to make them. The only way for the technology to be lost would be for mass deletion of files, and probably mind-wiping a ton of Cylons to boot... which wouldn't particularly go down very well, would it? And is certainly against the ethos of the Final Five.
Sorry, but you're the one who doesn't get it!
Let me reiterate: The Cylons didn't invent resurrection, hybrids, organic basestars, or anything. It was all built for them by the 5. Didn't you watch any of the flashback/exposition episode?? They didn't know how to build or maintain a resurrection system without the 5. The 5 kept the knowledge to themselves. And none of the 5 had the complete knowledge of resurrection. It needed all 5 of them to make use of or share the knowledge. So when Tyrol killed Tori, Cavil lost any chance of getting resurrection tech back.
Granted, it doesn't make a lot of sense, but it's all clearly set out in the show.
Have watched the final ep twice now, but I'm still not clear on what Adama's job was, the one he was agonising over taking before his planned retirement?
I read it as he was being interviewed to do the Galactica 'final tour' as a museum thing as in the mini series. All the Caprica flashbacks seemed to contain the events that lead the characters all to Galactica (or there abouts.)
Loved this, brilliant space battle stuff (Galactica getting pounded by the colony guns was almost pretty.)
Only 'The Plan' left, then no more Galactica. :cry:
Looking forward to the plan - be nice to see how they patch the ship up again after the pounding the set has taken in the last few weeks (Adama throwing paint up the wall etc) but I guess if Gordon Ramsay's team can decorate a restaurant in six hours it will be easy
Looking back and seeing what the cylon arc throughout the series as been does tend to make me think that "Caprica" is a redundant spin off before it starts? I hope like the finale that it surprises me
I think they shot The Plan before they did that much damage to the set.
douglasb
25-03-2009, 08:48
Head 6 saw the 'angelic' Baltar as a means of showing her the reality of angels. But why would the two angels maintain those two images for 150,000 years unless Head 6 AND Baltar were in some way 'special'? i.e. the two angels really looked like that. And, as far as I'm aware, Baltar ISN'T special (ie a cylon)
So it turned out we all knew who God was all along. Silly me, I know he doesn't like to be called that. Sorry Jimi.
Head 6 saw the 'angelic' Baltar as a means of showing her the reality of angels. But why would the two angels maintain those two images for 150,000 years unless Head 6 AND Baltar were in some way 'special'? i.e. the two angels really looked like that. And, as far as I'm aware, Baltar ISN'T special (ie a cylon)
Caprica Six, surely?
Head Six was just a looky-likey of Caprica Six, in the same way as Head Baltar.
It's funny, but the more I think about this ending the more I like it. I wasn't sure at first, but I now think that it's a very satisfying end to a GREAT series.
Not a revelatory end (which is what I expect from Lost) but satisfying nevertheless.
I definitely want to watch the whole final three in one go - breaking the trilogy up over two weeks was criminal. Unfortunately I deleted last week's from my V+ :doh:
douglasb
25-03-2009, 10:15
Yeah. I meant Caprica 6.
Terribly_Mauled
25-03-2009, 10:44
Having finally watched it in it's entirity, I thought this was a brilliant, fitting, emotional, profound and highly symbolic 2(3) hours of television.
Completely unexpected in places, dissatisfying in others, and jaw dropping for much of the rest.
I also love that theres an element of mystery to it. It'll ensure it'll be talked about for years to come, much the same way that Blade Runner and the Deckard Replicant argument was.
Goodbye Galactica, you shall be missed.
Now, bring on the Complete Blu Ray :nuts:
EDIT: Just finished wading through Bear McCreary's mammoth blog posting on the final 3 hours of music scoring. Damn good read, a complete blow by blow of the music throughout the 3 hours, including how Kara got the numbers for the final FTL jump from All Along the Watchtower... :nuts:
http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=1760#more-1760
Most pleasing is the news at the end of the post that says he'll release the S4 Soundtrack as a two CD set in the summer. First disc is S4, second disc will be purely music from the finale. And since the music IN the finale is pretty much the best in the entire run, as many have noted, I'll be moving heaven and earth to get a copy of the disc.
And that a Caprica CD is due next month along with the DVD. I'm more intrigued about Caprica to see what Bear does with the music than I am for the story at this point.
BSG would have zero emotional impact on me if it wasn't for his music and some of the character themes.
anephric
25-03-2009, 12:36
Also puzzled about the 'making it up as they went along' thing. Well of course they did, as do all writers:thinking:
I don't think they had any real arc plotted out beyond S2, hence the nonsensical "everyone's a cylon!" "revelations" of S3 onwards, negating a lot of character development up to that point.
Grandmaster
25-03-2009, 14:50
Sorry, but you're the one who doesn't get it!
Let me reiterate: The Cylons didn't invent resurrection, hybrids, organic basestars, or anything. It was all built for them by the 5. Didn't you watch any of the flashback/exposition episode?? They didn't know how to build or maintain a resurrection system without the 5. The 5 kept the knowledge to themselves. And none of the 5 had the complete knowledge of resurrection. It needed all 5 of them to make use of or share the knowledge. So when Tyrol killed Tori, Cavil lost any chance of getting resurrection tech back.
Granted, it doesn't make a lot of sense, but it's all clearly set out in the show.
Oh come on, it is physically impossible for five human beings to build the resurrection hub - did you see the size of it?! You're right in that it doesn't make a lot of sense. That's the whole point. What the writers have suggested is completely ludicrous. Almost as ludicrous as getting in a huff with the only people who do know how to build the thing, mind-wiping them and then sending them off to live with your worst enemies and possibly nuking them in the process :nuts:
Well I thought it was great and a fitting end to the show. I also think the pacing was spot on - the first half was pure action and it's very rare to see 45 minutes of non-stop excitement like that in any series, followed by a more reflective second half on Earth which brough the journey to a close.
Anyone fast-fowarding through the Adama/Roslin scenes obviously doesn't have a clue what the series is about and I think that it's a credit to those actors that the end of their journey was as moving as it was.
I personally haven't been disappointed by one minute of the show over its four seasons and I'd say it's now right at the top of my science fiction favourites.
IndianaJones00
25-03-2009, 17:32
Oh come on, it is physically impossible for five human beings to build the resurrection hub - did you see the size of it?! You're right in that it doesn't make a lot of sense. That's the whole point. What the writers have suggested is completely ludicrous. Almost as ludicrous as getting in a huff with the only people who do know how to build the thing, mind-wiping them and then sending them off to live with your worst enemies and possibly nuking them in the process :nuts:
I never got the impression that they built the hub, they said they re-discovered the technology that fell out of use on Earth once cylons were able to reproduce so I assumed the hub was probaley in orbit and they located it and reactivated it.
fivebyfive
25-03-2009, 18:01
Have to say the giving up technology made perfect sense to me, and surprised so many here questioned it.
It was their quest for technology that created the Cylons in the first place, so by throwing it all away was away of breaking the cycle.
it didn't break the cycle really, also they didn't know if the centriutions would come back or any of cavil's remaining baseships would find them 10 or 50 years later. Also about 40,000 people would have to agree not to use technology.
Also puzzled about the 'making it up as they went along' thing. Well of course they did, as do all writers:thinking:.
Some writers have a rough plan what happens eg Babylon 5
If this show had structure of who the final 5 was, the dying leader prophecy, it would of been a lot better for it
fivebyfive
25-03-2009, 18:06
I never got the impression that they built the hub, they said they re-discovered the technology that fell out of use on Earth once cylons were able to reproduce so I assumed the hub was probaley in orbit and they located it and reactivated it.
the 12 colonies' cylons never had resurrection technology. Some of the technology for the hub must of been from the final 5's ship as they downloaded after the attack on Earth mk 1.
(or a wizard did it) ;)
Some unanswered questions though... like Kara Thrace supposedly leading mankind to destruction... well it didn't seem so???
May have been answered all ready but wasn't the wording that she would lead mankind to its end? (EDIT: This was answered)
The ovaries bit was never explained.
And was Daniel Kara's dad or not? (EDIT: This bit has been answered, too)
I took the ditching of technology aspect to be that they wouldn't pass much on to the natives or Fleet offspring, thus possibly avoiding major future conflict. Still a bit silly, mind.
I'm also in the chore camp.
Terribly_Mauled
25-03-2009, 19:21
it didn't break the cycle really, also they didn't know if the centriutions would come back or any of cavil's remaining baseships would find them 10 or 50 years later.
Additional footage of the Colony and all the other Basestars behind pulled into the black hole, thus destroying all that remained of Cavil's forces, was cut for time. I suspect it'll be on the 20 minute extended cut on dvd and blu ray.
Spooky_uk
25-03-2009, 20:21
wrapped it all up nicley in the end. sure some quesitons remained but they were never gonna wrap it all up that neatly.
Roll on the TV movie The Plan in the summer :thumbs:
fugazied
25-03-2009, 21:57
It will be missed, so say we all!
ColinP sums it up for me perfectly and I have nothing to add to his post.
Just finished watching it and am an emotional wreck. Feel sorry for the people who feel short changed by it, but I wouldn't change one minute of the whole four seasons (apart from some of the latter episodes in season three).
Absolutely beautiful, absolutely brilliant, loved the introduction of the concept of angels / Gods, and just thought it hung together brilliantly.
Quite shocked as well, by the scene of one of the cylons, blood gushing from his neck, in his death throes. Some really graphic scenes there.
Overall gutted it has ended, feel enriched by the experience of watching it, and will probably leave it there and avoid Caprica.
Shame some people didn't get it.
anephric
25-03-2009, 22:54
I got it, I just don't need naff storylines contentiously hung together by faulty logic underpinned by "faith".
I'm keen to watch the whole thing from the start once the extended editions are out!
I don't think they had any real arc plotted out beyond S2, hence the nonsensical "everyone's a cylon!" "revelations" of S3 onwards, negating a lot of character development up to that point.
I believe they had no idea what the whole opera house business was going to be until they started writing the last half of season four. Is it any wonder the show was all over the place. I'm glad it's over which is such a shame because the miniseries and almost all of the first two seasons were totally stunning. However, season three was pretty average and four was mostly awful.
Silent Voice
26-03-2009, 06:15
it's not episode 4x22. it's 4x20 or if you're being anal 4x20 and 4x21.
When I first saw that, it confused me too.:suspect:
[QUOTE=Help;8537657]The ovaries bit was never explained.
[QUOTE]
May be this *was* addressed in a roundabout way in the flashbacks in Razor? The Cylons were possibly trying to cross breed and the hybrids that they used in the base stars had to be part human. Maybe they harvested the ova to carry on this work - as Simon was experimenting on Hera it stands to reason that his model was the "Disect the Humans to see what makes 'em tick" model?
Also having watched it again I think the last 15 minutes - Tyrol becoming a Highlander, the Kara / Lee denoument, the fantastic Laura just dies rather than a big good bye and the wheel turning again with the new robots on Earth made every dull moment in the last series and a half work and become worthwhile for me - it showed where our falibilities come from.
Can I have the complete extended Blu Rays NOWWWWWWWWWWW please?
LeftHandedGuitarist
26-03-2009, 11:46
Wasn't the ovary issue explained in that very episode? The Cylons were creating farms to do Cylon/human breeding experiments and were taking ovaries from all female prisoners. The farm Starbuck was in was destroyed at the end of the episode.
Are the DVDs going to be extended or is just the blu-rays?
Silver Jet
26-03-2009, 12:32
I thought it was amusing that the final montage showing different robots seemed to suggest that any future Cylon revolt on our Earth would be entirely the fault of the Japanese. Every shot that they used was of a Japanese built robot.
Terribly_Mauled
26-03-2009, 14:35
Are the DVDs going to be extended or is just the blu-rays?
The US dvds will definately be extended, we'll have to see if the UK ones will be once the episodes go through the bbfc. All previous extended episodes that never appeared over here on the UK DVD sets [Pegasus, Unfinished Business] will be on the UK Blu Ray though
So if I have the UK DVDs I don't have the extended version of Pegasus and Unfinished Business? I thought R2 Pegasus was the extended version and dvdcompare.net seems to think it is as well.
I knew that the R1 DVDs had more extras but I really notice the 3:2 pulldown thing on my TV so I went for the R2 versions.
Edit: Yes, over 56 minutes for Pegasus on my UK DVD.
[HB]RugRat
26-03-2009, 18:58
Well I thoroughly enjoyed that - how refreshing to see them spend the time to finish it properly instead of just rolling the credits once they arrive at earth. Not a great series but a well put together ending buys a lot of forgiveness for the wandering plot-lines and snail's-pace of many of the previous episodes. The build-up of tension before the action and then the action itself was spot-on. :lol: @ Baltar in his combat gear.
Anyone else find the sound of Tory's neck snapping extremely satisfying? I've been hoping she'd get her comeuppance and that was a doozy (even though I thought she was quite fit :p )
Terribly_Mauled
26-03-2009, 19:19
:eek:So if I have the UK DVDs I don't have the extended version of Pegasus and Unfinished Business? I thought R2 Pegasus was the extended version and dvdcompare.net seems to think it is as well.
I knew that the R1 DVDs had more extras but I really notice the 3:2 pulldown thing on my TV so I went for the R2 versions.
Edit: Yes, over 56 minutes for Pegasus on my UK DVD.
Ah ok, didnt realise that. I had the R1 in the past, but have sold them all on for the Blu Ray
sparkyrob
27-03-2009, 13:59
It's saying something when I watched this and the only thing that pulled me emotionally was the hatred I felt seeing the MSNBC logo flash up on the videos of the robots. I mean, FFS.
MrSynner
27-03-2009, 17:48
Saw this on Sky the other night.
Well, bit of a mixed bag. Most of the battle was really entertaining - particularly Adamas use of the other Picard manouevre (when faced with a larger ship - ram it!), but in the end, I feel this did what Babylon 5 did a decade ago - went on one season (or in this case - half-season) too far. The show (pardon the expression) had already shot its wad by the time of the enforced hiatus with the strike last year - THAT was the real ending - all the characters looking stunned while standing in the ruins of Earth (or one of the Earths - lost track now). This last half-season has really been like B5's final year - nowhere to go and nothing really to say.
I remember watching as Starbuck started to tap the numbers in, and shouting 'No, no - don't play that card now....' but they did - the Galactica jumps randomly into Earths orbit. OUR Earth. And conveniently - there is the rest of the fleet, by pure chance..... Oh come on..... Everything up till now seemed to indicate that Galactica was set way way WAY off in our future, that mankind had started here, then went off into space (the humans all came from the COLONIES after all - that implies they came from somewhere. I was never really convinced that they had come from Kobol. A spacefaring race would have left more evidence of itself behind than we were shown on Kobol). Also, they had seemed to indicate that there was a cycle of life - human builds Cylon (or some other type of autonomous AI), Cylon evolves into human form - human form develops ability to breed - off-spring builds Cylon. That seemed to get chucked out though.
Also, the colonials cheerily chucking their technology away, after spending the last four years (our time - much longer in the show - something the writers seemed to miss, as at least one character mentioned it had been four years since the Cylon attack - but there was quite a jump in time during the third season, as I recall) telling us how much Mr and Mrs Joe Public were whinging about the lack of amenities and luxuries in the fleet. So these people would cheerfully strap on a loin-cloth and get friendly with the natives? I think not.
Not convinced with the Baltar / 6 angel thing either, or revealing that Starbuck was also an angel - why not simply reveal her to be another Cylon - the original one from the first human / cylon / human cycle perhaps. I would have gone for that. Although my credibility had started to stretch that the Cylons had nuked 98% of humanity, and relentlessly hunted down and (tried) to exterminate the rest - only to find most of what was left was all other Cylons anyway that had magically managed to avoid all of this?
Still, got to say, I did have something in my eye several times during the end sequence, particularly when Roslyn died (although I did expect Adama to simply crash the ship at that point to die with her) and got some dust in my eye again as the original theme swelled as the Galactica limped to her final end.
I still hail this as one of the best SF shows of recent years - definitely up there with B5 and DS9 in the all-time top ten. Just a shame about the ending.
Although, I did hear somewhere that there is another TV movie to come - called 'The Plan' I believe?
fivebyfive
27-03-2009, 17:57
I remember watching as Starbuck started to tap the numbers in, and shouting 'No, no - don't play that card now....' but they did - the Galactica jumps randomly into Earths orbit. OUR Earth. And conveniently - there is the rest of the fleet, by pure chance..... Oh come on.....
a raptor was sent to rendezvous co-ordinates to meet the rest of the fleet
Although, I did hear somewhere that there is another TV movie to come - called 'The Plan' I believe?
Also known as 'Battlestar Pornographica' (http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2329367&st=0) by some...
More naked number 8's, love it!! :clap:
I went back and watched the mini-series tonight and I enjoyed it more than I did before. At about 3 hours it is long but knowing how it all ends made me appreciate certain aspects of the mini-series a bit more. There are the obvious things such as Roslin's Cancer; Or, the last Adama/Starbuck conversation in the finale was exactly the same as their first conversation in the mini-series and of course it played a part in the battle as well.
Baltar said that God wasn't on anyone's side in the finale and near the end of the mini series he told 'head six' that he wasn't on anyone's side - a clue or just a coincidence. Could 'head Baltar' have actually been God in the finale. I think his reaction to the word God near the end is open to interpretation. Probably just a coincidence, besides I like the idea of Jimi Hendrix being God more. ;)
joconnor
29-03-2009, 00:34
besides I like the idea of Jimi Hendrix being God more. ;)
Surely you mean Bob Dylan?
I went back and watched the mini-series tonight and I enjoyed it more than I did before. At about 3 hours it is long but knowing how it all ends made me appreciate certain aspects of the mini-series a bit more. There are the obvious things such as Roslin's Cancer; Or, the last Adama/Starbuck conversation in the finale was exactly the same as their first conversation in the mini-series and of course it played a part in the battle as well.
Baltar said that God wasn't on anyone's side in the finale and near the end of the mini series he told 'head six' that he wasn't on anyone's side - a clue or just a coincidence. Could 'head Baltar' have actually been God in the finale. I think his reaction to the word God near the end is open to interpretation. Probably just a coincidence, besides I like the idea of Jimi Hendrix being God more. ;)
Fod God's sake - don't start suggesting that the show makers had a plan and tied it together well. Some here will have a heart attack! ;
Terribly_Mauled
29-03-2009, 08:35
The most interesting sort of link between the mini series and the finale that I spotted is Helo giving up his Raptor seat to Baltar.
And Baltar talks down Cavil and saves Helo's daughter in the finale.
Unconscious payback, 5 years late?
Grandmaster
29-03-2009, 11:03
That's a bit of a stretch! :lol:
Probably unconscious on the part of the writers, yes ;)
Terribly_Mauled
29-03-2009, 11:16
Yeah, I know its coincidental, but theres a nice link there, its undeniable ;)
Proves their destinies were intertwined if nothing else. Me like. :)
sleepy67
29-03-2009, 12:02
Considering Helo was meant to die on Caprica as a result of giving up his seat, but was brought back cos of the reaction of the audience I wouldn't read too much into it ;)
Fod God's sake - don't start suggesting that the show makers had a plan and tied it together well. Some here will have a heart attack! ;
Perhaps not but they did go back to the mini-series to make some intentional connections with it in the finale.
Could 'head Baltar' have actually been God in the finale. I think his reaction to the word God near the end is open to interpretation. Probably just a coincidence, besides I like the idea of Jimi Hendrix being God more. ;)
It was a dick joke.
douglasb
30-03-2009, 09:08
http://abovethestore.blogspot.com/2009/03/full-of-sound-and-fury-signifying.html
Nice summary from John Thorne, who fans of cult TV will remember from the Twin Peaks zine Wrapped in Plastic.
Apostate
30-03-2009, 12:08
http://abovethestore.blogspot.com/2009/03/full-of-sound-and-fury-signifying.html
Nice summary from John Thorne, who fans of cult TV will remember from the Twin Peaks zine Wrapped in Plastic.
One correction: it was Admiral Cain :dork:
AndyWilson
30-03-2009, 13:47
I hadn't thought of it before reading that - but it does seem that the Battlestar writers took the phrase deus ex machina MUCH too literally...
I know I (and others) have mentioned the great music of Battlestar Galactica before. But given how the story ended the musical influences from all round the world suddenly seems more significant. As is the original voice over on the original Battlestar Galactica "some believe that life here began out there."
I have seen the finale a couple of times now and it is an ending that really stays with you...
Grandmaster
31-03-2009, 09:05
http://abovethestore.blogspot.com/2009/03/full-of-sound-and-fury-signifying.html
Nice summary from John Thorne, who fans of cult TV will remember from the Twin Peaks zine Wrapped in Plastic.
Difficult to argue with much of that really...
(Rather annoyed at Sky+ for losing the HD recording to a "technical fault", and at Sky for not repeating this in HD at all. Finally saw it though!)
I loved the finale, but I wish I'd seen it in one go instead of as the two broadcast episodes. The action in the middle was superb, and there were plenty of great lines (Starbuck asking Athena to not tell Boomer the plan made me laugh). The angels/prophecy stuff all worked for me too -- the opera house vision was all about getting Six and Baltar into CIC with Hera, wasn't it, so he could make that speech? RDM reckons that attempts to explain Starbuck and the angels in more detail just detracted from the impact.
- Apparently FLT jumps only damage nearby ships when it's a useful dramatic plot device, the fact is later dropped when necessary.The Raptors damaged Galactica when they jumped out of the museum. Are you saying that Galactica didn't damage The Colony? I didn't think we'd seen the ultimate fate of The Colony on screen.
- The flash backs were still weak. If they'd have happened during the previously 1st season they may have meant something, but seeing them only a week before the finale was stupid (particularly Sam's as his was clearly meant to be most prophetic).Last week's episode was the first part of the finale, so the flashbacks weren't "a week before the finale" -- they were in the finale, and that's that. (RDM wanted it all broadcast in one go but the network thought it was too much.)
Did we ever find out who the FINAL final Cylon was?Daniel. But he apparently didn't go undercover in the colonies -- Cavil messed him up early and he never really became a fully-fledged model, I guess.
I really didn't understand the need to show Roslin's back story in the last 3hrs. Did we really need more evidence that she's been through a lot, a tough lady etc...? There were so many more aspects of the shows I would have preferred that run time used on other than that.
Like all the flashbacks, it showed how the lead characters got to the point where the mini-series began. It wasn't just about hardship -- it showed why this ex-teacher reluctantly began a political career, and that feeds into her character as President.
I read it as he was being interviewed to do the Galactica 'final tour' as a museum thing as in the mini series. All the Caprica flashbacks seemed to contain the events that lead the characters all to Galactica (or there abouts.)For Adama specifically, I thought it was the opposite: he and Tigh were retiring from the service, and Adama had some other job lined up which he declined to take. So that put him back on Galactica. (Ellen was happy to have Tigh all to herself again -- and then Tigh would have followed Adama and their marriage continued to break down.)
Roll on The Plan!
Difficult to argue with much of that really...
Seconded. (EDIT: So say we all?)
http://abovethestore.blogspot.com/2009/03/full-of-sound-and-fury-signifying.html
Nice summary from John Thorne, who fans of cult TV will remember from the Twin Peaks zine Wrapped in Plastic.
I think he's wrong about the Earth plot problems:
In season 3, Starbuck finds Earth--a planet that exists in our exact solar system and looks exactly like our Earth. The refugees reach Earth only to find it a radioactive ruin. Earth, it seems, is a lost cause. But in the finale, Starbuck guides the fleet to another Earth. Again, it looks exactly like our Earth (same continents, single large moon, etc.). We're supposed to believe (now) that the first Earth was false, despite the painstaking detail that earlier established it as the one and only Earth.
At the end of season 3 we were shown our Earth. That was to be the final destination, and Kara ultimately led the fleet there (with help from Hera and the music). She just led them to the 13th colony, the first Earth, first. Thorne's mistake is in assuming that the nuked planet they wound up on in Revelations (mid season 4) was the same planet shown at the end of Crossroads (end of season 3): the Crossroads planet was identifiably our Earth, but the Revelations planet was not. It just had the name "Earth", which was later borrowed by the colonists for the planet found in Daybreak. When they all arrived at our Earth in the finale, they were finally reaching the planet shown in Crossroads.
The reason that both planets (from Thorne's quote above) look exactly the same as our Earth is simply that they're the same planet! The radioactive planet was a different one.
I just remembered that I wasn't convinced that the Revelations Earth was our Earth:
And of course, if they all find a new planet and settle it... well, Earth was always the goal and even though they've found it and left it behind, they could name their new colony in honour of their dream, and call it Earth.
what i don't understand is why they asked amada if he was a cylon, when no-one has seen one fo 50years and no-one certainly knew they where skin jobs and looked human? In the mini-series everyone thought they still looked like normal robots
Difficult to argue with much of that really...
While I do agree with some of the points in the article (to some extent) and I did post about the Cylons not evolving and didn't have a plan a few episodes back; if the writer of the article wasn't liking it back in the days of Pegasus then I can understand why their viewpoint is to the most negative part of the spectrum.
I could make an argument why Lee for example moves between different positions of responsibility perhaps being linked to his Dad being in command, there only being 40,000 people left and, social mobility being difficult in the fleet for others etc but it wouldn't be that strong of an argument I agree. Even if social mobility, colony origin and the ship you are on determining your life chances already having been covered...
I would like to try and explain the Earth thing though. According to the article:
...And let's not forget the most painful and obvious "unmaking" of all: In season 3, Starbuck finds Earth--a planet that exists in our exact solar system and looks exactly like our Earth. The refugees reach Earth only to find it a radioactive ruin. Earth, it seems, is a lost cause. But in the finale, Starbuck guides the fleet to another Earth. Again, it looks exactly like our Earth (same continents, single large moon, etc.). We're supposed to believe (now) that the first Earth was false, despite the painstaking detail that earlier established it as the one and only Earth. This final "plot twist" of a second Earth is unforgivable. It is shameful and insulting and damning evidence that the writers had little faith in themselves and no regard for their audience.
Of course, another interpretation is that the Earth shown at the end of Season 3 was a bit of self-indulgent teasing on the part of the makers of BSG just to show the viewer that our earth is out there.
I don't recall seeing any identifiable continents on the "Earth" they found at the end of Season 4.0; I don't have the first episode of Season 4.5 recorded so I can't check that one.
The planet they found in the finale was our "Earth". Just as what we know of as "humans" according to the show is a mix of Cylon/colonial/tribal, what they know as Earth isn't the real Earth. But even Roslin agreed at the end that it could be called Earth.
I don't have any problems with the fact that the contintents wouldn't look anything like that 150,000 years ago either, the viewer needed to see what they were familiar with and recognised as their planet. Forget continental drift or the fact that as little as 7000 years ago the Sahara Desert didn't even exist, everyone knows Africa on a map of the world.
Edit: Sorry, didn't see smst's post.
what i don't understand is why they asked amada if he was a cylon, when no-one has seen one fo 50years and no-one certainly knew they where skin jobs and looked human? In the mini-series everyone thought they still looked like normal robots
It was just a test question to calibrate the machine (to judge all following answers by) because they know he isn't a cylon because he doesn't look like a walking toaster.
Terribly_Mauled
31-03-2009, 14:21
I don't recall seeing any identifiable continents on the "Earth" they found at the end of Season 4.0; I don't have the first episode of Season 4.5 recorded so I can't check that one.
RDM has specifically said they didnt show any identifiable continents on Earth 1 from orbit to hoodwink the audience for the purposes of the mid point and finale of the season.
The Earth at the end of S3 in the mega pull back/zoom shot is the Earth from the finale though
Grandmaster
31-03-2009, 14:34
Wasn't there a star chart showing Earth at some point though? Maybe in that temple.
douglasb
31-03-2009, 14:37
Hoodwinking the audience is just shorthand for bad writing. I haven't seen anyone come on and say "I knew all along that wasn't *really* Earth".
Terribly_Mauled
31-03-2009, 14:39
Hoodwinking the audience is just shorthand for bad writing.
Usual Suspects? ;)
douglasb
31-03-2009, 14:53
Usual Suspects? ;)
My memory is not so great but In re-watching the Usual Suspects, the viewer is given enough information to see that the 'reveal' is internally consistent.
In BSG, I'm not sure that happens.
The 'reveal' in BSG is the equivalent of a murder mystery where 12 suspects are presented but where the murderer is actually a character who has never been mentioned until the detective sums up the story at the end.
Given the writers were making it up as they went along, up to and including half way through writing the finale, why are people surprised none of it makes sense? :nuts:
Terribly_Mauled
31-03-2009, 18:39
The 'reveal' in BSG is the equivalent of a murder mystery where 12 suspects are presented but where the murderer is actually a character who has never been mentioned until the detective sums up the story at the end.
Which bit are we talking about? God, or Earth[s]?
Fair play on Earth[s], its just a case of fooling the audience.
God has been mentioned as being behind it all since the get go really, just we as an audience never gave it a tremendous amount of attention.
anephric
31-03-2009, 18:48
Well, we did. We just thought it was going to be more interesting than "God did it."
Terribly_Mauled
31-03-2009, 18:50
Hmmm. I thought that was really rather clever. But oh well. :D
anephric
31-03-2009, 18:59
I desperately wanted it to be more clever than it was - I was really gearing up for some Frank Herbert-alike dissection of religion and faith and whatnot, and instead it just kinda... fizzled out and took the easy option. We won't explain anything, it was all the flying spaghetti monster and you have to take it on faith that it was.
What would you have had then? How would a "Frank Herbert-alike dissection of religion and faith and whatnot" have played out?
Given the writers were making it up as they went along, up to and including half way through writing the finale, why are people surprised none of it makes sense? :nuts:
It makes perfect sense to me :shrug:
Just scanned this but interesting final few questions...
http://www.tvguide.com/news/battlestar-galacticas-ron-1004256.aspx
and this interview after the episode when nuked Earth is discovered....
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/01/final-fifth-cylon-ellen-tigh-battlestar-galactica-dualla-dee-.html
Q. That planet is Earth? We’re not going to find out, “Oh, there’s this other Earth over here...” This is the only Earth we’ll see?
Ron Moore: They have found Earth. This is the Earth that the 13th Colony discovered, they christened it Earth. They found Earth.
anephric
01-04-2009, 09:01
What would you have had then? How would a "Frank Herbert-alike dissection of religion and faith and whatnot" have played out?
I dunno, that's why Frank Herbert would need to still be alive to write it. Anything's better than "faith will get you there in the end".
Cop out 'phric! :p
I only asked as I haven't a clue what sort of take Frank Herbert would've had on it, not having ever read anything he wrote!
Terribly_Mauled
01-04-2009, 09:14
The thing that Galactica always did, without fail, throughout it's run, was to destroy expectations. For good or ill.
The fact that it 'copped out' by just explaining away a large portion of it's plot by playing the faith card instead of explaining everything through a sci fi lens is perhaps the ultimate example of this. And is also exactly why I have no problems with anything in the finale.
Grandmaster
01-04-2009, 09:34
Eh? The only real 'destroyed expectation' was the nuked Earth. And even that turned out to be not the real Earth, even though Moore said it was. And it probably would've remained so had the show not been resurrected after the writer's strike.
What other expectations did you have that were destroyed exactly? Let's be honest, most of the major plots played out exactly as you would think they would... did you seriously think Baltar would be executed after his trial? Did you expect Adama to die after being shot at the end of S1? Did you expect Starbuck not come back after dying? Did you expect Roslin to live?
Eh? The only real 'destroyed expectation' was the nuked Earth. And even that turned out to be not the real Earth, even though Moore said it was. And it probably would've remained so had the show not been resurrected after the writer's strike.
Moore said "[t]hey have found Earth. This is the Earth that the 13th Colony discovered, they christened it Earth. They found Earth". He didn't say it was the planet that we call Earth. It was the "real" Earth as far as the colonists were concerned -- the legendary planet from their history settled by the 13th colony. They found their Earth, which had been their goal.
They later found another planet and called it Earth as tribute to their original dream. That became our Earth. RDM was clearly dodging the question of "is this the planet that we live on?" by being precise about them having found the Earth they were looking for (and I remember reading that interview at the time and finding that precision suspicious, hence my comment after the episode that I expected them to find our planet and name it Earth).
AndyWilson
01-04-2009, 10:15
Do they really believe that any intelligent person could believe in such a thing as a sentient god with his plans overseen by angels?
The more I think about the finale, and I've seen it twice, the more the hokey-religion and anti-science agenda annoys me. I've gone from thinking it was pretty good to one of the worst couple of hours of "intelligent TV" I've ever seen...
anephric
01-04-2009, 12:35
Cop out 'phric! :p
I only asked as I haven't a clue what sort of take Frank Herbert would've had on it, not having ever read anything he wrote!
In the case of Dune and its sequels, faith is seeded by various entities in order to further agendas; prophesies and legends are perverted or implanted by religions in order to secure power bases or exploit primitive societies. That kinda deal.
Ah I see! Thanks.
A bit like our history then! :D
stupidboyjj
01-04-2009, 14:07
From The Onion:
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/obama_depressed_distant_since
More likely distracted since Lana came back since he did say he was from the planet Krypton (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vws9fTtQgz4). Gordon Brown said he was going to save the World but Obama did it with style.
It makes perfect sense to me :shrug:
A few random things off the top of my head that didn't make sense:
30,000 people deciding to die from dysentery in 5 years.
Shooting all their tech into the sun.
Rewarding Anders by shooting him into the sun.
Having an epic battle pause and having the aggressor be won over by someone saying "can't we all just be friends".
Two different planets in different star systems having the same visible constellations.
Terribly_Mauled
01-04-2009, 19:07
What other expectations did you have that were destroyed exactly? Let's be honest, most of the major plots played out exactly as you would think they would... did you seriously think Baltar would be executed after his trial? Did you expect Adama to die after being shot at the end of S1? Did you expect Starbuck not come back after dying? Did you expect Roslin to live?
I mean the left field events that change your expectations, not the standard plot and character stuff or the results of them.
Adama being shot by Boomer.
The 1 year later jump.
Finding Earth and finding it nuked.
At any rate, want to hear something funny.
Friend of mine finally watched this, and is utterly convinced that they all travelled back in time to before Earth was nuked. He thinks both Earths are the same planet. :nuts:
At any rate, want to hear something funny.
Friend of mine finally watched this, and is utterly convinced that they all travelled back in time to before Earth was nuked. He thinks both Earths are the same planet. :nuts:
Before the last part of the finale I thought something like that might happen because of the black hole, except with Starbuck's Viper going to a different time and crashing on Earth. But that would put the final five in a continuous loop.
I too thought it was going to be a time travel thing, with the colonial distress signal on Kara's crashed viper having attracted a force that then nuked Earth Mk1.
That wouldn't have happened, if you get stuck in the event hozion of a black hole you get stuck while time travels around you. you'd end up in the future not the past if you ever be able to escape.
Physics 101
LeftHandedGuitarist
01-04-2009, 22:05
Have you experienced this?
Another thing that didn't make sense: The entire starbuck plot starting with her viper exploding all the way up until the end of the show. When the only way to tie up your gaping plot holes is by literal deux ex machina you've gone wrong somewhere. I put the finale of BSG on about the same level as the ending to Demons 3. I'm going to pretend that the series ended with the season 2 finale, with a few TV movies (a handful of episodes from seasons 3 & 4) added later. :D
Yup i agree, starbuck was the only part i had a problem with, i was happy with everything else
I think if you faded to black after Duala put a gun in her gob, you'd have a decent enough ending to the series right there.
Perhaps add a pullback into a view from outside the ship, going ever further away and showing the fleet and several Cylon base ships jumping in among them to end it all Blake's 7 stylee.
Apostate
02-04-2009, 15:28
A few random things off the top of my head that didn't make sense:
30,000 people deciding to die from dysentery in 5 years.
Shooting all their tech into the sun.
Rewarding Anders by shooting him into the sun.
Having an epic battle pause and having the aggressor be won over by someone saying "can't we all just be friends".
Two different planets in different star systems having the same visible constellations.
Agreed. And what about risking everything to rescue little Hera? And for what?
Terribly_Mauled
02-04-2009, 15:37
Agreed. And what about risking everything to rescue little Hera? And for what?
Us ;)
Scruffy the Janitor
02-04-2009, 16:26
Agreed. And what about risking everything to rescue little Hera? And for what?
Erm...maybe I am reading to much into it, but it seemed fairly obvious that it was just a device to launch a final (what they considered to be) suicide mission against Cavill.
From what I saw they knew they had lost. Morale in the fleet was disinterating and Galacatica was done for. The rescue was purely a paper thin reason for those that had served on Galactica to put it to the Cylons one final time all knowing that they were done for.
That is what made the 'accidental' destruction of the colony all the sweeter. They were cooked, they had given it a good go but the hybrids had been brought back on-line and Galactica was just about finished. Out of the blue due to a very specific and convienient chain of events (missiles live, pilots killed but raptor survives, nudge in just the right place to move the pilots arm) they are saved by a freak occurrance. In a show laced with messages about devine intervention.
Galactica survives long enough to make one final jump. A jump that brings them to earth and serves as the foundation for modern mankind.
All this came from a mission launched with the best of intentions but the acceptance of total failure and death.
Despite all of their fighting and struggling, giving up was the trigger event for them finding their goal.
Did no-one else get that. The one message of the whole show was that from hopelessness springs great things which has Been pretty much the constant from day one.
Agreed. And what about risking everything to rescue little Hera? And for what?
They rescued her because she was special.
"Special? in what way?"
"Shut up! She just was, ok?!"
It's fully explained why she was special.
AndyWilson
02-04-2009, 18:35
Does anyone know if the creators are psycho-Christians?
Well considering Ron Moore's last sci-fi show also ended with 'Gods' sorting out all the problems, I'm going to guess yes.
anephric
02-04-2009, 21:06
I was going to say, DS9 hits you over the head with the Jesus stick too.
It's fully explained why she was special.
Not really. She was special because without her survival the last few pieces of dialog couldn't be in the show, that's about it.
Of course.
The fact that she is the one who propogates with the local population, thus becoming the mother of the whole human race, is totally irrelevant.
It does make me laugh as well when everyone sits there and accepts the whole concepts of robotics, and sentient robotic beings, and space travel, and space battles - but as soon as someone dares to introduce the concept of religion into a show everyone is up in arms!
I'm not a religious man, although I was brought up one. I find the introduction of religion into shows like this, and DS9, quite a satisfying and unusual concept. The whole of our society used to be based on religion, and whilst it has often been a source of conflict, just because we as a country has become secular it doesn't mean religion isn't still extremely important in most other societies.
Whether you believe in religion or not, I don't see why it is not a valid thing to introduce into a show like this. The original BSG was intended to reflect Mormon beliefs (Larson is a Mormon), and this remake has ALWAYS had religion as a centerpoint of the show since the beginning.
I didn't see it as a cop out as some are.
douglasb
03-04-2009, 08:21
I don't think it's the inclusion - it's the execution.
Many of the decent shows over the last couple of decades have dealt with spiritual issues (Twin Peaks, American Gothic, Homicide, Carnivale) and BSG was up there with the very best initially.
Some of the early conversations between Baltar and Head 6, the questions of morality and the Cylon 'plan' were remarkable - real 'hairs on the back of the neck' stuff.
No-one who bought into the early seasons should have had any problems with the issues raised - the series was about survival and mortality, morality and divine intervention.
It just seemed to go ... wrong. And instead of being beautiful and bold and asking "What does it mean to be ... human?" it just said "Meh ... God did it."
anephric
03-04-2009, 09:06
Exactly. All the teasing, all the hints at some wonderful, convoluted plan and mysterious forces... it's just God moving in a mysterious way. And not even particularly mysteriously - it's just Erich von Daniken again. I'm amazed they didn't chuck Count Iblis in there too.
sleepy67
03-04-2009, 12:17
The fact that she is the one who propogates with the local population, thus becoming the mother of the whole human race, is totally irrelevant.Except she is not the mother of the human race, that is not what Mitocondrail Eve is. She is simply the woman from whom all modern woman can trace their descent. However it does not mean that all the other Colonials/Cylons didn't propagate. Anyway the Most Recent common Ancestor of humanity lived only a few thousand years ago so makes a mockery of your argument anyway.
Is the planet OUR earth though?
degeneration
03-04-2009, 19:03
Is the planet OUR earth though?
Our Earth with our New York?
Is the planet OUR earth though?
OK, it's <b>an</b> Earth that happens to be identical to <b>our</b> Earth right down to things like names of cities and the correct current logo of a cable news channel that happened to have been a partnership between two corporations, Microsoft and NBC. So, it may not be <b>our</b> Earth but it's <b>an</b> Earth that happens to share an utterly identical history to <b>our</b> Earth.
It also has the same constellations as <b>our</b> Earth, although those same constellations are also shared by another planet in another star system a couple hundred thousand years in the past, so hmm, not sure how we get out of that one.. Oh, I know, for no reason at all, God did it. :clap:
Oh, I know, for no reason at all, God did it. :clap:Thing is, that excuse has worked for thousands of years in the "real" world so why not?
The colonists would probably have looked for the constellations that reminded them of their original twelve colonies anyway and named them accordingly. Among the things I like about the finale is the way it connects the series with us and our origins in a way the original series didn't do.
I didn't realise that the 12 colonies are slightly different from the original series:
Constellation: original series - recent series
Aquarius: Aquaria - Aquarion
Aries: Aeries - Aerilon
Cancer: Orion - Canceron
Capricorn: Caprica - Caprica
Gemini: Gemoni - Gemenon
Leo: Leonis - Leonis
Libra: Libris - Libran
Pisces: Picon - Picon
Sagittarious: Sagitara - Sagittaron
Scorpio: Scorpia - Scorpia
Taurus: Taura - Tauron
Virgo: Virgon - Virgon
barrynorton
06-04-2009, 10:45
Not sure if everyone is aware, but HMV have got the complete Battlestar Galactica Boxset which includes seasons 1 to 4, The mini series and razor for £35.
Isn't that the one that only has the first half of season 4 in it?
Terribly_Mauled
06-04-2009, 10:53
Not sure if everyone is aware, but HMV have got the complete Battlestar Galactica Boxset which includes seasons 1 to 4, The mini series and razor for £35.
But lacks the final episodes of S4, including this one
Have to say I have just watched the last 2 episodes and loved them both. Yes you can pick holes but I just sat back, not hoping for too much as standards have undoubtedly slid lately (I just didn't want them all to die in BSG self destructing which I thought would happen!) and I was gobsmacked at how good it was.
Very surprised they managed to tie up as much as they did, the original theme and some other moments brought tears to my eyes.
Sometimes I think we get too focused on trying to be clever and find plot holes etc. like the old trekkies used to, when we lose the idea of just watching it and enjoying it ... don't get me wrong though, I hate it when things don't make sense as it had in some older episodes but I really enjoyed this.
And ashamedly only after reading Terribly_Mauled's aintitcool quote on page 1 did I realise that of course Starbuck's story was so similar to Jesus' - which when I read it just made me have even more admiration for it (Jeez I must have been half asleep to have missed that one!). I thought that the time spent on 'our' Earth was about right, it didnt really leave any questions unanswered which would have been so annoying knowing no more were going to be made.
Loved it, loved it, loved it. Like a lot of others, I'm going to miss BSG a lot. :(
Fatbloke
22-04-2009, 08:08
Not sure if everyone is aware, but HMV have got the complete Battlestar Galactica Boxset which includes seasons 1 to 4, The mini series and razor for £35.
Get saving guys... the BSG Complete Series on Blu has been announced (http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Universal/TV-on-High-Def/Disc_Announcements/Battlestar_Galactica_Announced_for_Blu-ray/2720)
Might wait for it to drop a little... :suspect:
Walrus Man
22-04-2009, 13:22
Get saving guys... the BSG Complete Series on Blu has been announced (http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Universal/TV-on-High-Def/Disc_Announcements/Battlestar_Galactica_Announced_for_Blu-ray/2720)
Hmmm, why does the Blu-Ray version have an aspect ratio of 2.35:1?
Surely a mistake...
Battlestar-Galactica-Press-Release (http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Battlestar-Galactica-Press-Release/11751)
The more I think about the end of BSG the more disappointed I am by it. On an emotional level for the characters it's still really good but from a story point of view it's all over the shop.
I have no problem with Kara being an angel but how the whole thing was set up makes no sense under scrutiny
Somehow I think the 'Kara's dad was the supposedly dead cylon' idea would have been a lot better
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