Recommendations for cheap gaming LCD [Archive]

anephric

03-03-2009, 08:44

Howdy,

Further to my buying a Panny PZ80 and realising most games look like dreck on it, I really need some recommendations for a cheap(ish) LCD that I can stick upstairs for gaming. I'm happy with the plasma for film and TV, but I can't live with it for gaming.

So, because I've shot my load on the Panny I only have a couple of hundred to spend, and I really want to sort out something sooner than later. Initially I was looking at buying a decent 22" monitor for upstairs and using that for the 360, but I'm umming and aahing now that it might be a wee bit on the small side.

So: 32" LCD, needs decent response time, low input lag or a decent gaming mode, best possible motion handling and contrast. I don't need 1080p, if that makes much difference (I haven't had much joy looking for a 720p panel that seems decent). Looking to spend £200-250, £300 absolute tops.

Please help. I'm not a happy bunny. I see phosphor lag in my sleep now :(

Deron

03-03-2009, 10:05

Think any cheap lcd should be fine...

Although if you see phosphor trails are you susceptible to motion blur (lag) as well....?

Cheap lcd's should be alright with HD material, it's just SD that look crap.

Ebuyer have a few...check the reviews...

http://www.ebuyer.com/search?limit=20&store=73&cat=133&subcat=2353&sort=pricelow&page=1

Edit...

Looking in that list there is a Samsung at £325...I'd personally pay the extra and get that.

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/148946

anephric

03-03-2009, 13:17

Ta. That Sammy's a bit over my psychological max price, as I'm a bit gutted that I can't stomach games on the PZ80 and have to buy something else on top, and yeah, the reason I went with plasma over LCD in the first place is I see motion blur all over the place with LCD.

I'm more bothered by input lag on cheap LCDs, as I know a lot of the cheaper stuff (and even mid-range) can have delays of 60ms and the like. Does using VGA normally reduce or eliminate that? Does VGA circumvent most image processing?

Deron

03-03-2009, 16:22

I don't know...

But 1:1 mapping comes into play...

If it doesn't do it, then overscan may become a problem.

anephric

03-03-2009, 18:24

Having hunted about, it really does seem I'd better plump for the Sammy as it seems best for motion and lack of ghosting for the money. Oh well. Two TVs to replace one old CRT.

HUZZAH.

vila

03-03-2009, 20:41

Can you not take the Panasonic back and swap it for the same size sony LCD which seem to be the best of their sort.

anephric

03-03-2009, 21:24

I've thought about it, although I'm out of my 7-day grace period now. I've left it too long, really, and I don't really get on with LCD either, which is why I went for plasma in the first place. I'm becoming less and less keen on the PZ80 as every day goes by, it has to be said. I'm seeing more and more phosphor lag in everyday viewing now.

I might ring up the retailer and see what they say. The problem is: if I do manage to blag a swap (which I imagine will be unlikely anyway) and hate the LCD more, I'm screwed.

Deron

04-03-2009, 07:23

Is that the purple snakes problem I've heard mentioned?

Was it a fault or is it an inherent thing you see on all plamsas?

anephric

04-03-2009, 08:39

All plasmas, and they all do it to a certain extent. Some are better than others, with faster phosphors, but even Kuros and such do it.

People that say they can't see it are lyyying. They've trained themselves not to care. So, at the moment I'm torn between having phosphor trails or motion blur. I'm not sure which I hate most. At least motion blur isn't bright green.

Deron

04-03-2009, 10:00

lsba02853

04-03-2009, 10:14

People that say they can't see it are lyyying. They've trained themselves not to care.

Thats a rather bold statement!
I've had a panasonic plasma for over a year now and not seen anything of the sort.

Granted I've seen the vidoes on Youtube where its certianly evident but can catagorically state its NEVER shown itself on my set.

vila

04-03-2009, 15:17

I can't see it...

I never have...thankfully,

Consider yourself cursed like that little boy in 6th sense...

;)

Go have a look on you tube - you may have an excellent set but many plasmas do exhibit it and it very obvious unless your eyes work at 12 fps

Deron

04-03-2009, 15:44

Go have a look on you tube - you may have an excellent set but many plasmas do exhibit it and it very obvious unless your eyes work at 12 fps

:eek:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/XLuOa_F9DCM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XLuOa_F9DCM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Is this what you see?

Blimey!

That's nasty.

I had a 480p Fuji in 2004 which used a Panasonic PW6 screen with their electronics. But I've never seen that before...

And we still have a couple of pw6's at work and I've not seen that. Is it a new Panny problem?

anephric

04-03-2009, 17:58

There isn't a single person I've shown the (worst) examples of phosphor lag that couldn't see it and didn't agree it was borderline unacceptable. So I don't believe it's that dependent on individual vision and/or optical processing. The phosphors exhibit the lag, categorically. It's not a quirk of vision whether they occur, it's whether you can see them (and unless, as stated, your brain is 8-bit I can't believe anyone can't) or, more likely, it's how much you're bothered by it, i.e. you've tuned your brain to not see it.

The PZ80s are supposed to be worse for it than similar Samsungs or the Kuros, but they all do it. I'm seen a 360 running CoD4 on a Kuro and it was as bad as my PZ80.

Deron

05-03-2009, 06:47

The PZ80s are supposed to be worse for it than similar Samsungs or the Kuros, but they all do it. I'm seen a 360 running CoD4 on a Kuro and it was as bad as my PZ80.

I've not noticed it on mine, but as I'm not sensitive to it I doubt I ever will...

But the only gaming done on it has been SF4...I presume fps would be one of the first things to bring it up.

There's an interesting thread over on avforums about people that have panny's and notice it, and it seems that it gets better over time...

http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasma-televisions/949792-phosphor-lag.html#post9000415

And there's also another thread about lessening it's effect...

Panasonics show it more than most in the first few hours, up to 5-600 hours they are quite bad, get to 1500 hours and it is reduced dramatically, get to 3000 hours and they are very few and far between. At 4000 hours they were completely gone on my set.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasma-televisions/896584-am-i-seeing-phosphor-trails-panasonic-th42pz85.html

Good luck...

anephric

05-03-2009, 08:57

Deron

05-03-2009, 10:08

I don't really believe that stuff about the lag decreasing. I can imagine it maybe getting a touch better when the phosphors lose some luminance, but I reckon, as I said before, it's people learning to ignore it (most likely because they don't want to admit they've spent a grand on some nice green smudging equipment).

You can tell I'm not really impressed with plasma. To make me feel a bit better I went around to my mate's last night and laughed at his LCD smudge.

(Btw, SF4 is fine on my PZ80 :) Most games where there's not high-contrast, large scale movement are fine.)

I think you also need to admit you are actually cursed...

Certain people are obviously more sensitive than others.

If I could see it, I think it would limit my choice of screen, no way would I put up with that. I pay my money to experience the best cinematic experience I can...

Green flashes whenever the screen moved would do my nut in.

On the flip side I do get motion sickness during certain fps...

But I much prefer that affliction to what you experience.

Would those new fangled lcd's with 200mhz have been a better option for you than plasma?

anephric

05-03-2009, 12:38

They might be, but from what I understand 120hz/200hz isn't a cure-all for LCD motion problems. And, as I said, if I do wangle a swap and hate the LCD more, I'd be lumbered with it. The most I could stretch to would be the Sony 40W4000 or similar, and that isn't even 120hz.

baffled

15-05-2009, 15:29

I have just bought one of these Hitachi UT32MH70 (http://www.richersounds.com/showproduct.php?cda=showproduct&pid=HITA-UT32MH70) as I too was getting fed up with phosphor trails.

The reviews it gets are fair to middling but was reviewed when it cost £800 (now costs £269 at richer sounds), I had a quick play this morning on Merc's 2 and couldn't see any obvious motion blur but will put it through it's paces properly over the weekend, there's a thread at avforums where others have also said this set performs well with gaming.

edit; It's a panel only so will need an HDMI freeview box or similar if you intend to watch TV on it.

splobber

23-05-2009, 06:55

You must be special as I have owned four plasma TV's and have viewed countless others and I have never seen this phosphor lag stuff. I do sometimes see motion blur on LCD though which is another reason why I would never buy a large screen one.

LouBarlow

23-05-2009, 12:39

Another one who has not noticed it on my plasma owned to date. I did notice green trails on my last Toshiba CRT though, so it's not as if I wouldn't notice it if it were there :thinking:

Saying that I can't really see it on that youtube video linked to earlier either, so I guess I just have slow eyes or something :D

anephric

23-05-2009, 12:53

Y'see, if I believed (and I did!) everyone that said phosphor lag doesn't exist I could've saved myself a grand and a lot of grief.

I defy anyone to not notice green lag in Call of Duty 4. It's beyond comprehension that you can't see that, or else your brain processes stuff backwards in time. Or something.

Anyhoo, I've still not got around to picking up an LCD for gaming as everyone I see that's vaguely affordable has nasty blur, or at least equally as nasty as playing with phosphor lag.

LouBarlow

23-05-2009, 13:39

My brain processes stuff backwards...or maybe you've got extra fast eyes?

anephric

24-05-2009, 12:07

Sadly, it's the latter. I can see 60hz refresh and all that guff. It's not just me, though, as most people I've shown, say, Quantum of Solace to can see the lag in the fast action in that.

baffled

24-05-2009, 12:23

I find it's worse if I'm tired, still not had a proper chance to play on the Hitachi I bought due to working extra shifts but willl report back once I do.

LouBarlow

24-05-2009, 14:06

Sadly, it's the latter. I can see 60hz refresh and all that guff. It's not just me, though, as most people I've shown, say, Quantum of Solace to can see the lag in the fast action in that.

I have no doubt that I would see it if you pointed it out to me...so kindly DON'T! :p