View Full Version : [F1] Pre-season & winter testing 2009
Thought it was worth starting a new thread for the 2009 pre-season. A couple of worthy discussion points already.
- Martin Brundle has confirmed his moved to the BBC. :thumbs:
- Testing has started in Barcelona and some of the cars look pretty goddam awful with their new low and wide front wings (BMW and Honda, I'm looking at you). :gag:
- Bernie wants to scrap the points system in favour of medals, and it would seem everyone is in favour of the idea. :oh-hum: I'm not convinced, the points system has worked since the 50's and even with the tinkering of points awarded and best results counted has remained reasonably effective. They should have just left it at the 10,6,4,3,2,1 system from the early 90's. Schumacher/Ferrari domination forced the change and now everyone's moaning that the World Champion doesn't need to win many races to take the title as long as he consistently picks up points. You can't have it both ways. One change I would consider worthwhile would be the re-introduction of a point for fastest lap, would at least give other drivers something to aim for if they were out of contention for a podium. Who knows, Kimi may have even been in with a chance of retaining the title on that basis. :D
slideymoo
18-11-2008, 17:30
Medals? How would that work? Surely if someone finished on 6 'gold' and 11 dnfs and someone else got 14 silvers they still win?
Bernie wants to scrap the points system in favour of medals, and it would seem everyone is in favour of the idea. :oh-hum: I'm not sure about that, I doubt it's as supported as he says. It seems a ridiculous idea to me, though I don't think increasing the value of a win is a bad idea in itself.
There's so many disadvantages to it, e.g.:
A slightly dominant team at the start of a season could get a huge advantage after a few races.
How do you rank the rest of the drivers? Someone could get a fluke podium, and 'beat' everyone else who consistently came in fourth/fifth.
Team orders would become even more controversial - a team with a 'second' driver would have a huge advantage over those with 'equal' footing.
How would the constructor rankings work?
Safety cars and rain would create even more havoc.
And finally, can you imagine the controversy over a Spa-style penalty?!The fastest lap idea isn't too bad, but I wouldn't want a championship to be decided on a fastest lap point. In the worst case scenario, if a driver was out of the points they could pit for fresh tyres, take fuel out and then do a qualifying-style run during the race.
Go back to 10,6,4,3,2,1 system and introduce a point for Pole and a point for race fastest lap
rbullivant
18-11-2008, 20:06
Surely when they moved to the 8 places points system that it was obvious it more likely that the person without the most race wins would be more likely to win the title?
R
Go back to 10,6,4,3,2,1 system and introduce a point for Pole and a point for race fastest lap
:thumbs:
Mandrill
19-11-2008, 00:55
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72176
Jesus that is one ugly car
Raigmore
19-11-2008, 06:39
- Bernie wants to scrap the points system in favour of medals, and it would seem everyone is in favour of the idea. :oh-hum: I'm not convinced, the points system has worked since the 50's and even with the tinkering of points awarded and best results counted has remained reasonably effective. They should have just left it at the 10,6,4,3,2,1 system from the early 90's. :D The medal system is stupid, as was the pre early 90s system where only the top 11 race points were calculated. But the current trend of 8 points places is too long and IMO 6 is more than enough. Just 2 points between 1st & 2nd is too small and 4 might be too much.
Therefore, the best points distribution would be 10, 7, 5, 3, 2 & 1 for the top six finishers. The 3 points gap between the 1st and 2nd seems just right and there is also a 2-point gap between 3rd - the last podium place - and 4th.
fattyboombatty
19-11-2008, 15:23
Go back to 10,6,4,3,2,1 system and introduce a point for Pole and a point for race fastest lap
i thought it used to be 9,6,4,3,2,1?
The Bear
19-11-2008, 16:24
Therefore, the best points distribution would be 10, 7, 5, 3, 2 & 1 for the top six finishers. The 3 points gap between the 1st and 2nd seems just right and there is also a 2-point gap between 3rd - the last podium place - and 4th.
I agree with that but the trouble is they have to give the middle-field teams something to get out of it or they wouldn't bother.
I agree with the gap increasing again for the winner though.
The Bear
19-11-2008, 16:25
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72176
Jesus that is one ugly car
Why is it still running grooved tyres?
i thought it used to be 9,6,4,3,2,1?It was up until 1991, then first got bumped to 10. The current system came in in 2003.
DanWilde1966
19-11-2008, 18:49
Why is it still running grooved tyres?Yep - I too am really looking forward to the return of real slicks.
Seems like a lot of the teams were running mixed setups at Barcelona with some new and some components at different times.
The BMW is hideously ugly, Klien's comments are :D, but the shots I've seen of the Honda and Williams new flat and wide front wings are just as bad. I guess that's what the new regulations are going to bring for all of the cars. Let's at least hope the racing is improved if even if the cars aren't particularly aesthetically pleasing.
Scoring 10,7,5,3,2,1 is a good idea, seems to be well apportioned. 12,9,7,5,4,3,2,1 would work just as well to spread the points further. Not sure about the argument of giving the midfield teams something to race for though, less points on offer still worked in the past with as many teams in the field. You could argue more points should be available, where does it stop? Finishing places are still counted in ranking the teams where they have scored no (or equal) points.
How about points for actually finishing the race, or points deducted for not? Put more emphasis on reliability.
mikthe20
19-11-2008, 22:56
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72176
Jesus that is one ugly car
I dunno, makes me feel a little nostalgic - reminds me of 1970/80s cars - that BMW looks like a 1986 Brabham (the one with the BMW engine!):
1986
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/Marcoscars4life/Biler/BrabhamBT555.jpg
2009
http://www.autosport.com/images/upload/1227012466.jpg
Go back to 10,6,4,3,2,1 system and introduce a point for Pole and a point for race fastest lap
Only problem with a point for pole is that unless the new regs mean a lot more overtaking, pole drives off into the sunset as at the moment and it's effectively 11 points for first.
Raigmore
20-11-2008, 17:35
I agree with that but the trouble is they have to give the middle-field teams something to get out of it or they wouldn't bother.
I agree with the gap increasing again for the winner though. The gap has to be larger than 2 points for the winner. In any straight race the psychological gap between the "winning" and the second place is huge, whereas it is not so obvious between the 2nd & 3rd places. Then there would be another virtual 'gap' between 3rd & 4th places because of the podium, but that is less obvious.
As for 'giving something' to the middle teams, it could work both ways. Not giving any points beyond the 6th place could make them work harder to get there rather than drop their shoulders.
Effectively Bernie's medals system is just giving points for 1st 2nd and 3rd isn't it? My first reaction is to hate it but then if it stops people trundling round in 4th and 5th places happy to accumulate points, and forces them to make wild lunges for podium positions then I'm all for it. Might give us a bit more excitement and incident.
rbullivant
21-11-2008, 17:56
How many teams actually got a podium this year? I'm pretty sure several would have got nil points. the points system has been fine for many years, its hardly the most pressing thing that needs changing except to give ferrari a better chance of winning
R
Webber seriously injured in crash:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7743308.stm
DanWilde1966
22-11-2008, 07:13
Will four months be enough time for all those injuries to heal and for Webber to return to a state of fitness?
I'm sure it will. By the sound of it, the main injury is the broken leg. With people as fit as he is, recovery is usually fairly quick. I recall other drivers making a quick return after breakages like this but don't ask who as I'm still half asleep!
BTW didn't see where Brundle confirmed his move to the BBC, but I'm quite happy with that. Anyone got any ideas yet when the BBC will be confirming the rest of their coverage plans (the other presenters, the format, etc.)?
How many teams actually got a podium this year? I'm pretty sure several would have got nil points.
Yes I agree. It may make the WDC 'fairer', but there are some drivers that will probably never get in the top 3 - surely there is still some competition to be had in beating you teammate or closest rival on points.
I know the points system would remain for constructors championship purposes, but that's not the same thing.
Just change the points scoring back to what they were, i.e. bigger points gaps between the top 3 places.
The Bear
22-11-2008, 10:59
A broken leg should only take 2-3 months max to get back to full strength.
The Donnington saga continues....:oh-hum:
Planning approval was expected this month, but North West Leicestershire District Council has postponed its decision until 27 January:cuckoo: in order to carry out a full environmental impact assessment.:doh:
Donnington say that as soon as approval is given then work will start straight away (do they have a construction firm on standby then:shrug:)
Bernie is on record as saying No Donnington, then no British Grand Prix.:eek: In reality Bernie is capable of anything, but if Lewis does the double then there has to be a British GP
Suppose Mark won't make Race of Champions now....
fredfox_uk
24-11-2008, 12:44
Anyone got any ideas yet when the BBC will be confirming the rest of their coverage plans (the other presenters, the format, etc.)?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7745347.stm
When I read "And veteran commentator Murray Walker will return to the BBC..." I almost fell off my chair !
I was very surprised to see that Ted Kravitz is part of the BBC line-up, not least as Coulthard had a pop at him recently and doesn't seem... overly keen on him!
The Bear
24-11-2008, 14:26
I was very surprised to see that Ted Kravitz is part of the BBC line-up, not least as Coulthard had a pop at him recently and doesn't seem... overly keen on him!
I'm not. He's damn good at his pit-lane/interviewer role and totally deserved to keep his job.
Good to see we'll have Murray Walker's input again. I was shocked to see he was 84 years old! I didn't realise he was that old.
The big suprise is Jake Humphrey being anchor. He's a bit young and not what you'd expect as 'anchor material'. I've only ever seen him do the odd thing for the BBC in the Euros etc, but I'm not condemning the appointment or anything like that.
Glad to see the BBC have carried over both Brundle and now Kravitz, easily the two better members of the ITV team.
Will be interesting to see how outspoken Coulthard and Jordan will be in their pundit roles. I think it's a strong line-up they've put together, even managing to include Murray Walker in some capacity.
A good start, let's see what else they bring to the presentation. I'd like to see timing screens on the Red Button. Maybe some sort of driver-cam, corner-cam, pit-cam or similar viewing options for when you have an interest in things happening elsewhere from the main feed. Alternative 5-live commentary?
Edit: I don't think Jake is that much of a surprise, they've been building his role for some time so a 'new' sport coming to the Beeb is a good opportunity to give him more exposure and groom him as one of their top sports presenters. He's done the anchor job on Football Focus and, I think, MOTD2 occasionally as well as lots of coverage on less mainstream sports and part of the BBC Sport team for major events. Less likely that'd he'd step up to permanently replace one of the current big names on the established BBC sports shows, but a great chance for him to show his worth and easy to replace the following season if it doesn't work out.
Just as long as they use Fleetwood Mac's "The Chain" i'm happy :D
Seems like a good line-up. The jury's out on Jake Humphreys for me, but for all we know he may be a massive F1 fan, so it could be great. He certainly can't be as bad as Steve Ryder or Jim Rosenthal.
Not keen on the Eddie Jordan appointment. Hell, I think I'd almost have preferred Blundell! Or Tony Jardine! Or Simon Taylor!!!
Just as long as they use Fleetwood Mac's "The Chain" i'm happy :D
You just know it'll be a "re-imagining" of it. :oh-hum:
Andrew70
25-11-2008, 09:42
I don't really know what to think about the medals idea, but I do think they need to do something about some of the trophies that are being given out.
That Santander flame logo as a trophy is just tacky and it got presented at two or three Grand Prix last year.
It's one of the myriad reasons why the threat of losing the British GP is such a worry - we give out a PROPER trophy to the winner. It has handles and everything!
F1 drivers deserve proper pots for the mantlepiece.
fattyboombatty
25-11-2008, 12:04
F1 drivers deserve proper pots for the mantlepiece.
i was shocked to recently discover that mclaren don't let their drivers keep the trophies they win:eek: seems a bit harsh.
Andrew70
25-11-2008, 12:35
i was shocked to recently discover that mclaren don't let their drivers keep the trophies they win:eek: seems a bit harsh.
I think Williams has the same policy, not that it's been a huge problem for their drivers for a few years now :)
I think Williams has the same policy, not that it's been a huge problem for their drivers for a few years now :)
I was just about to comment on that but you edited your post. ;)
Not keen on the Eddie Jordan appointment. Hell, I think I'd almost have preferred Blundell! Or Tony Jardine! Or Simon Taylor!!!
Holy cow, I'd totally forgotten about Tony Jardine, he always reminded me of a tortoise for some reason.
i got Sky Sports on a (subscribe to this and pay less than if you didn't) deal this weekend for 3 months so I caught the A1GP live and Tony Jardine was in the studio for it. You could do worse than have him but you could do better as well.
i got Sky Sports on a (subscribe to this and pay less than if you didn't) deal this weekend for 3 monthsWhere did you find out about this offer?
Where did you find out about this offer?
I had a tech prob so I phoned them and after they sorted it he saw that I had Movies but not Sport and was paying £38 a month (before multiroom and HD) and asked me if I'd like to add sport for 3 months and pay £34.50 a month. Now I'll have sport for free, so sport for -£3.50? Yes please.
I had a tech prob so I phoned them and after they sorted it he saw that I had Movies but not Sport and was paying £38 a month (before multiroom and HD) and asked me if I'd like to add sport for 3 months and pay £34.50 a month. Now I'll have sport for free, so sport for -£3.50? Yes please.Must be just giving these offer to HD customers, i tried to get a deal with movies and sports the other week to no avail.
Bernie's trying to get the 'most wins' system in place then:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72254
Bernie Ecclestone has declared that his controversial medal system to decide the Formula One world drivers' champion will be introduced next year.
Speaking at the announcement of a technology partnership between F1 and Korean electronics giant LG in London today, Ecclestone said he expects his plan to be ratified at the next FIA World Motorsport Council meeting.
"It's going to happen," said Ecclestone. "All the teams are happy. The whole reason for this was that I was fed up with people talking about no overtaking. The reason there's no overtaking is nothing to do with the circuit or the people involved, it's to do with the drivers not needing to overtake.
Eddie Jordan's criticised it as being "nonsense", quite ironic really to see the first real piece of coverage from the new BBC F1 pundits to be critical of Bernie, after the switch to the BBC.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72256
Whilst Legard is pretty good, and better than that idiot Allen... why, why, why, why didn't they pick Ben Edwards to partner Brundle in the commentary box???!!!???
mullethead
27-11-2008, 12:14
i was shocked to recently discover that mclaren don't let their drivers keep the trophies they win:eek: seems a bit harsh.
Are you sure about this, i'm sure Mika said he lost all his trophies when his house burned earlier in the year and Ron was trying to help him get them back :thinking:
Are you sure about this, i'm sure Mika said he lost all his trophies when his house burned earlier in the year and Ron was trying to help him get them back :thinking:
t's correct.
McLaren get to keep the originals and Ron gets copies made for the drivers.
That's true, though Hamilton at least arranged a deal so he keeps the originals of his first win trophy, first world championship trophy etc.
http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/72055
Donnington to be Car Free Event (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=44674):lol:
Do you think they are already telling people it will be a public transport arrival only event... and later on reveal what they actually meant by saying it would be Car-free was totally No Cars, as in vehicles... as in no F1 cars because the track isn't finished......:lol:
The offical FIA F1 Review DVD of 2008 is due for release on Monday, cheapest I've seen so far is Amazon.co.uk (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=8&url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B001ISJYI2/thedvdforums-21) at £12.98:thumbs:
Only 2 hours this year:shrug:
The offical FIA F1 Review DVD of 2008 is due for release on Monday, cheapest I've seen so far is Amazon.co.uk (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=8&url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B001ISJYI2/thedvdforums-21) at £12.98:thumbs:
Only 2 hours this year:shrug:
Well you cut out all the stuff FIA would rather you didn't remember thats all thats left. ;)
The offical FIA F1 Review DVD of 2008 is due for release on Monday, cheapest I've seen so far is Amazon.co.uk (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=8&url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B001ISJYI2/thedvdforums-21) at £12.98:thumbs:
http://www.pricesearching.co.uk/DVDDetail/mfno1089750
£12.73 here and you can get a further 10% off tomorrow, details in the Bargain Forum.
DVDWotcha
02-12-2008, 13:53
The whole reason for this was that I was fed up with people talking about no overtaking. The reason there's no overtaking is nothing to do with the circuit or the people involved, it's to do with the drivers not needing to overtake.
You wot ? So all the drivers tell us it's impossible to get close to the car in front because of the loss of downforce ?! :shrug:
Yes, some over taking would be nice, but I don't want this to turn into nascar with cars being nerfed off the track left right and centre. How long before cars are fitted with bumpers ? :nuts:
Donnington to be Car Free Event (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=44674):lol:
What was the attendance of the Silverstone GP? 85K?
Part of me thing that car-free is ridiculous, part thinks, if you don't have that many cars the traffic will be lessa and it could be a really good idea if done well.
My gut feeling is that it won't be done well and it'll be nightmarish coach journey full of people getting drunk, they'll drop you a couple of miles from the track so you'll have to struggle with any camping chair or bits and bobs you normally take...and it'll be raining. :lol:
Donnington to be Car Free Event (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=44674):lol:
Car free by necessity. Basically the local roads would never cope with the public arriving in cars. Mainly because they won't have spent the millions of £££ upgrading like Silverstone already has.
Silverstone isn't perfect, but I'd rather spend an hour sitting in my car not moving than standing waiting for a bus to take me to an overpriced train. Assuming a train is available to get me home. Sod doing that for each of the 3 days.
It's just a rubbish idea to host F1 at Donnington.
Major news - Honda are reportedly quitting F1.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7766092.stm
Honda will quit Formula One on Friday, BBC Sport understands.
The Japanese car manufacturer are set to announce that they are selling their team, with a view to closing it down by the end of March if no buyer is found.
Sources told BBC Sport the team were "optimistic" they would continue, but no investor had yet been found.
However, according to the Reuters news agency, team bosses Ross Brawn and Nick Fry fear Honda could close the team within weeks.
According to a Reuters source, Brawn and Fry told a meeting of the Formula One Teams' Association, "They have a month to find a buyer, otherwise they are closing the team."
Honda, who recently cut road vehicle production as a response to the global economic crisis, are expected to make an announcement regarding the team's future at 0500 GMT on Friday.
Major news - Honda are reportedly quitting F1.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7766092.stm
I was just about to post the same, I wonder if any of the others teams are thinking the same
DanWilde1966
04-12-2008, 20:37
Inevitable. F1 is unsustainable in the present economic climate. It'll be McLaren and Ferrari pootling about, with one or two other manufacturers... maybe.
I'm surprised VW aren't involved in F1, given all the money they flushed down the toilet on the Veyron.
I'm surprised VW aren't involved in F1, ...
You mean Porsche? ;)
The return of the TAG would be nice ....
Honda could have told JB in advance to give him a chance to find a seat for 2009. :oh-hum:
Honda could have told JB in advance to give him a chance to find a seat for 2009. :oh-hum:Whilst it's a shame we might not see him next year, I think more consideration needs to go to the hundreds of other employees of the company than for multi-millionaire Button - there's no way anyone could justify telling Button in advance and not them.
Radiohead
04-12-2008, 21:09
Whoah, I just shot the wedding of the Head of Marketing for their earthdreams programme. Some welcome back from honeymoon for him then.
I think more consideration needs to go to the hundreds of other employees of the company than for multi-millionaire Button
Living in Swindon, home of the Civic, I wondered if Honda would be under pressure. They are closing the (Civic production) factory down for two months and are looking for 1000 staff to volunteer to resign by paying a lump sum (15k I believe) or take extended sabbaticals on half pay.
The Japanese philosophy seems to be to avoid compulsory redundancy wherever possible. and you have to respect that.
The point is it's hard to justify a £200M a year team when your company in struggling like that.
It's very sad for F1 though.
Dreadful news for F1 and on the face of it for Jenson Button. But if they can't find a buyer, would it really be that bad for him? At least he's not going to be accused of being a quitter this time and let's face it, Honda were just nowhere near good enough in F1 for a team with their amount of money. Jenson was never going to compete in that car, so this news may actually be the break that he needs.
I don't think he'll get a drive for 2009 now, unless Webber doesn't recover well from his broken leg, but a year out and a new opportunity in 2010 might just be what he needs. He'll still be younger than Damon when he made his debut and his experience will be in demand. I'm also sure that he's wealthy enough to make a decision based on what is best for his career, rather than whoever offers the most cash.
What is unlikely for him is a move to either McLaren or Renault. McLaren have Lewis for 4 more years and almost certainly won't partner him with a Brit, whilst Flavio isn't a fan and Alonso won't want a decent driver in the other car. I think he'd be the perfect driver for BMW to partner with Kubica.
What I don't expect is that Toyota will be an option. Already plenty of rumours that they are ready to pull the plug now that Honda have gone, although more likely for 2010 than 2009. If that happens then it's bad news for Williams too, although it could also open up a seat there to Jenson (who is, apparently, still highly regarded and very much wanted by Frank) as Nakajima comes with the Toyota engine.
QUICK EVERYBODY! Start poking Webber! ;)
Mandrill
04-12-2008, 22:17
Bad news for F1 this and I wonder how long until other teams pull out ,I don't know of any car manufacturer who is not in financial trouble at the moment.
mklion123
05-12-2008, 01:27
QUICK EVERYBODY! Start poking Webber! ;)
perhaps Alonso could fall of a ladder whist putting up christmas decorations:shrug::D
I did not see that coming, so sudden! just after they pumped so much cash into that team too with all the talk of a long term plan.
I'm sure Button will be fine, what was he on a 20million contract?
But even if somebody buys the team looseing 100million from the budget is gonna hurt
I did not see that coming, so sudden!
That's the nature of the recession. In August my industry was fine, good figures, etc.
By the second half of September customer projects were cancelled, and now we are looking at layoffs.
Nobody saw it coming so suddenly and so severely!
Button to Torro Rosso? They need a driver and it would be good for him to "slum it" for a season or two. Show what he is made of.
Presumably Honda will have to pay out his massive contract so he won't be short of a few quid.
Don't Williams use Honda engines?
Button to Torro Rosso? They need a driver and it would be good for him to "slum it" for a season or two. Show what he is made of.
Presumably Honda will have to pay out his massive contract so he won't be short of a few quid.
Don't Williams use Honda engines?
No Williams use Toyota but I heard they want out as well... :eek:
It would be ironic if JB took the STR seat as Sato was looking good for it.
I'd have thought prodrive would be interested in Honda? A ready made constructor, plus the ties that Honda/BAR have/had with Prodrive are very strong.
Prodrive are big but they aren't £200m a year on a single project big.
Don't forget about Ross Brawn as well, was keen to see where Honda would be in the field next season with the development of their new car under his leadership.
Button must be kicking himself for ever leaving Williams. BAR/Honda have underperformed considerably, and now this bad news. Even when struggling with backing Williams have performed respectably.
Horrible news for the rest of the team workers. The big names won't feel the pinch money wise and are likely to find their way easily into another team by next season even if they have to take a year out. Big uncertainty for everyone else though, will anybody step in and take over the team in the current economic climate?
Let's just hope none of the other teams pull out so suddenly as the sport is slowly dying.
rbullivant
05-12-2008, 10:45
Can understand their withdrawal, for the manufacturer teams these F1 projects are a massive investment for no return (esp with Honda form). Must have invested billions for the return of one race win, hardly makes you want to rush out and buy a honda does it?
R
The Bear
05-12-2008, 11:00
Prodrive may not be able to afford to buy Honda out, but they may be interested in purchasing the chassis.
Button must be kicking himself for ever leaving Williams. BAR/Honda have underperformed considerably, and now this bad news. Even when struggling with backing Williams have performed respectably.
Why? He was kicked out of Williams after his first season when they brought in Montoya. Even when he had an offer to return (ignoring the first offer that he wasn't legally allowed to take), Williams was a privateer team, whereas at Honda he was driving for a full works team with considerably more investment.
Williams haven't won a single Grand Prix since they lost the works deal with BMW at the end of the season before Jenson was due to return there and whilst it is impossible to say what might or might not have been, it's highly unlikely that Jenson would have even had the one Grand Prix win to his name had he been with Williams between 2006 and 2008.
It would be ironic if JB took the STR seat as Sato was looking good for it.
Now that Dietrich Mateschitze has bought back STR they could do worse than bring back Tonio Luizzi. I don't think he or even Scott Speed where given a fair chance by Franz Tost (and Berger).
Sammy709Sony930
05-12-2008, 19:48
Crikey, JB got a job quickly, I'm sure that I just saw him covered in rats on "I'm a Celebrity" ;)
In fact, he just won it!
DanWilde1966
06-12-2008, 06:33
Excellent blog by Damon Hill in this morning's Guardian online:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2008/dec/06/formulaone-motorsports
I'm not sure, suggesting that the team with the biggest budget tends to win is blatantly not true.
DanWilde1966
08-12-2008, 21:22
So: which team will be next to pull out of F1?
belgarion_v
09-12-2008, 07:55
So: which team will be next to pull out of F1?
I'm not sure, but my mate reckons Renault, I'd have thought they may be okay since their biggest market (France ahem) has been affected less by the credit crunch due to having tighter credit controls.
Vince
Highlander
09-12-2008, 08:14
I'm not sure, suggesting that the team with the biggest budget tends to win is blatantly not true.
Could be wrong, but I'm sure I read that the biggest spender last year was Honda? Followed by Toyota?
I'm not sure, but my mate reckons Renault, I'd have thought they may be okay since their biggest market (France ahem) has been affected less by the credit crunch due to having tighter credit controls.
I always thought Renault would be next but this week the big 5 including them and Toyota confirmed their commitment to F1. I'd say STR will be next as Dietrich doesn't need 2 teams.
rbullivant
09-12-2008, 11:33
I'm not sure, but my mate reckons Renault, I'd have thought they may be okay since their biggest market (France ahem) has been affected less by the credit crunch due to having tighter credit controls.
Vince
Yes but Renault win a few races so their budget can probably be jusified as good marketing, watxhing Jenson and Rubens plod around at the back probably doesn't scream at people to buy a Honda.
Then again its often mentioned about Renault pulling out, even in the past
Can't see it being one of the private teams (williams, mclaren) as they have nowhere else to go. If anyone it'll be STR but I doubt that tbh
R
The Bear
09-12-2008, 14:16
If anyone surely it'd be one of the Red Bull teams. Is running two teams economically viable?
Is Red Bull that popular. How can they afford to run two teams?
fattyboombatty
09-12-2008, 15:58
If anyone surely it'd be one of the Red Bull teams. Is running two teams economically viable?
depends on if you're a billionaire.
If anyone surely it'd be one of the Red Bull teams. Is running two teams economically viable?
Well he only bought back his full share in STR a couple of weeks ago, so I assume, he's fine to run the two.
Well he only bought back his full share in STR a couple of weeks ago, so I assume, he's fine to run the two.
OR he's looking at the STR results and thinking of stripping the assets and bringing the best of STR over to RBR.
Andrew70
10-12-2008, 11:12
Or as Berger said, it's easier to sell a team when you control all of it.
Mandrill
12-12-2008, 14:39
New proposals for cost cutting have been announced today
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7779168.stm
Engines:
- From 2009, engine life to be doubled. Each driver to use maximum of eight engines per season; each team can use an additional four for testing
- Limited to 18,000 revs per minute.
- Cost to independent teams will be approximately 50% of 2008 prices.
- 2010 engine will continue to be used in 2011 and 2012.
Race weekend:
- From 2010, standardised radio and telemetry systems, a ban on tyre warmers, mechanical purging of tyres and refuelling on race weekends.
- Possible reduction in race distance or duration (proposal to follow after market research).
Research:
- From 2009, no wind tunnel exceeding 60% scale and 50 metres per second to be used after 1 January 2009.
- Restrictions on aerodynamic research, combined with a full analysis of factory facilities.
- Factory closures for six weeks per year, to accord with local laws.
Other:
- From 2010, subject to confirmation of practicability, the same transmission will be used by all teams.
- FIA to compose a standard parts list for the chassis.
- FIA and Formula One Teams' Association to study possibility of an entirely new power train (engine and transmission) for 2013, based on energy efficiency.
/rant mode on
GGGGRR F1 is the pinnacle of motor sport, once you start standardising gears/engines it loses all the prestige. It might as well be A1GP. :mad:
/rant mode off
The Bear
12-12-2008, 15:34
No refuelling! No tyre warmers!!
Should make things interesting at the start of the race and after pit-stops.
They're the two points which jumped out at me as well for 2010, most of the rest was expected.
I thought they'd changed the engine life rule to be more flexible at first, that is you can use a maximum of 8 race engines a season. So teams could choose as and when to make the change, bringing in a strategic element. However, the three-race lifespan previously agreed is still in place just not mentioned in the article quoted above.
Overall, I don't think it's a bad set of changes considering what we could have ended up with.
DanWilde1966
12-12-2008, 17:36
/rant mode on
GGGGRR F1 is the pinnacle of motor sport, once you start standardising gears/engines it loses all the prestige. It might as well be A1GP. :mad:
/rant mode offWithout such (probably temporary) measures, the sport will be gonzoid alonzoid. Gone.
Without such (probably temporary) measures, the sport will be gonzoid alonzoid. Gone.
Fine, because a watered down "F1 Lite" with standardised engines may as well not exist in my book.
Without such (probably temporary) measures, the sport will be gonzoid alonzoid. Gone.
Ok then dump the BMW, Renault and the big brands and leave it to Williams, McLaren to build cheaper, smarter cars like they were in the 60's to 80's with the brands supplying their branded but cheaper engines. Let them use their brains rather than their wallets, and not come up with this jelly-mold and out pops the same car with a different name plan.
Ok then dump the BMW, Renault and the big brands and leave it to Williams, McLaren to build cheaper, smarter cars like they were in the 60's to 80's with the brands supplying their branded but cheaper engines. Let them use their brains rather than their wallets, and not come up with this jelly-mold and out pops the same car with a different name plan.
Exactly.
kungfuman
16-12-2008, 15:53
not f1 related but motorsports none the less, subaru have pulled out of the WRC effective immediately:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72492
They did that when they unveiled the new Impreza :gag:, it could have sealed the end for the company.
Mandrill
16-12-2008, 16:18
Isn't there very few teams left in the BTCC now as well ...doesn't look like a good period for motorsports right now.
downhillbiker
17-12-2008, 15:48
Isn't there very few teams left in the BTCC now as well ...doesn't look like a good period for motorsports right now.
Seat have pulled out of BTCC, and cancelled the Cupra Cup. That leaves Vauxhall as the only works team competing.
There's only Citroen and Ford left in the WRC with manufacturer backing - given Ford's woes in the US, how long until it's just Citroen?!
... and Vauxhall must be on the edge of pulling out themselves. Will they run a car they don't sell anymore or fork out for a new one?
downhillbiker
17-12-2008, 16:36
Also, they're part of General Motors...
Also, they're part of General Motors...
Thats was my main point.
downhillbiker
17-12-2008, 17:57
Oh. Right. Fair enough!
Do any car companies actually have money to throw at motorsport?
Perhaps you should say:
Do any companies actually have money to throw at motorsport?
;)
Anyone see di Montezemolo's comments and Bernie's reply?
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72546
In terms of revenue, we want to know more about them," said di Montezemolo. "Theoretically, like in other professional sports, like basketball in the USA, we can have a league made by us and appoint a good league manager to run our own business. Because it is our own business.
"We want to know the revenues better so we can decrease the cost of the tickets. Then we have the matter of traditional tracks rather than exotic tracks just because they have a nice skyline. We have to discuss the show. How to promote. I'm not prepared any more to have all this dictated to us by outside without any control."
"The only thing he has not mentioned is the extra money Ferrari get above all the other teams and all the extra things Ferrari have had for years - the 'general help' they are considered to have had in Formula One," Ecclestone told The Times.
"Ferrari get so much more money than everyone else. They know exactly what they get; they are not that stupid, although they are not that bright, either. They get about $80 million (£54 million) more. When they win the constructors' championship, which they did this year, they got $80 million more than if McLaren had won it."
"General help", indeed - athough I'm not quite sure what good it really does Eccelstone to point out the extra money that Ferrari recieve, in fact, it really reinforces di Montezemolo's general point.
fattyboombatty
20-12-2008, 18:04
the ferrari scum have been bleating about this calling it old news and nothing major. while it is actually old news it certainly highlights just what max and his cronies have been up to the past few years: keep ferrari at the top, by hook or by crook.
The ITV F1 review for 2008 is on tomorrow morning on ITV1 at 10:45am and lasts an hour.
Only this year it isn't called F1 2008 Review.... :lol: instead they've called it 'Lewis Hamilton - World Champion':lol:
On another note many people called for 'The Chain' to return on hearing that F1 was returning to it's home.... I did note that when Lewis was on Sports Personaility that he was introduced using 'The Chain' so I think a return of the music is fairly likely
Yup, I noticed that too :D. Given that, I think it's almost am inevitability.
The Bear
21-12-2008, 17:50
I hope so.
That was my first thought about 'The Chain' too when they used it for SPOTY.
Looks like Subaru pulling out of the WRC may have paved the way for Prodrive to take on the Honda F1 package. Richards has apparently expressed an interest and it in talks with other backers. :thumbs:
The offical FIA F1 Review DVD of 2008 is due for release on Monday, cheapest I've seen so far is Amazon.co.uk (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=8&url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B001ISJYI2/thedvdforums-21) at £12.98:thumbs:
Only 2 hours this year:shrug:
Now £6.99 at HMV (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=10&url=http://hmv.com/hmvweb/displayProductDetails.do?ctx=280;-1;-1;-1;-1&sku=896337)
DanWilde1966
31-12-2008, 08:31
Lewis Hamilton snags an M.B.E. for "services to motorsport", or something.
Lewis Hamilton snags an M.B.E. for "services to motorsport", or something.
Wouldn't that be the pit crew? ;)
The Bear
31-12-2008, 13:05
Lewis Hamilton snags an M.B.E. for "services to motorsport", or something.
Why? What exactly has he done for motorsport?
won things? Isn't that what you are meant to do in motorsport?
The Bear
31-12-2008, 15:28
So you win a Chamionship and you get an MBE?
Big enough championship and yeah you do. :)
rbullivant
31-12-2008, 17:35
Champion of the World is worth at least an MBE if you're giving out honours to everyone with a Beijing medal.
I'd have thought that medals and championships would be enough for these people, thought such MBE's were for unsung heroes
R
losimagic
31-12-2008, 21:22
So where's Damon Hills honour? :mad:
DanWilde1966
31-12-2008, 21:39
So where's Damon Hills honour? :mad:Hill's an OBE. I presume Hamilton got the MBE because, unlike Hill, he's won his title at the beginning of his F1 career rather than at the end. Hill was well into his thirties when he became champion; Hamilton is in his early 20s. Hammy is a potentially great driver; Hill was driving far and away the best car on the grid, but nevertheless had some shocking seasons (1995) in it.
Andrew70
05-01-2009, 14:39
Hill's an OBE. I presume Hamilton got the MBE because, unlike Hill, he's won his title at the beginning of his F1 career rather than at the end. Hill was well into his thirties when he became champion; Hamilton is in his early 20s. Hammy is a potentially great driver; Hill was driving far and away the best car on the grid, but nevertheless had some shocking seasons (1995) in it.
The disparity in awards for Damon and Lewis was actually highlighted by one of the talking heads experts on News 24 on the day the honours were announced.
He went on to say (While talking about Brucie being overlooked for a Knighthood yet again) that honours generally get handed out in five year cycles meaning that unless Lewis does something really special in the coming years, he couldn't expect an upgrade on his gong until 2014 at the earliest.
Spooky_uk
07-01-2009, 14:50
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/sporteditors/2008/12/plenty_to_look_forward_to_in_2.html#comment27
But to BigBadDaveB in #9 and others: F1 won't yet be available in HD though we'd very much like it to be. I'll keep you posted.
bugger :(
Spooky_uk
07-01-2009, 14:53
.
Spooky_uk
07-01-2009, 14:54
.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/sporteditors/2008/12/plenty_to_look_forward_to_in_2.html#comment27
bugger :(
oh sod it :|
Spooky_uk
07-01-2009, 17:31
thanks for the pointers but I was posting right at the time the forums went FUBAR so :p
Spooky, there seems to be an issue with your email address as we are getting a load of bounces overnight from it. Can you look into it because if it continues we will have to block your account and we really wouldn't want to do that ;)
Spooky_uk
08-01-2009, 15:40
still getting mails through each night though can't confirm if all getting through. My mail comes in via domain at 123reg which could be the issue I suspect. Have mailed them but no doubt they will deny any issues.
(BTW wouldn't a PM or email have been more appropiate, I may not have seen this for weeks ;) )
I see Donnington had planning permission approved today, so the race is on to get it ready for 2010.
It's January, so Donnington have 17 months to complete their works. The way I look at it there are two main problems....
1/ Money - How the hell are they going to raise £100M for the project? Easy enough task 12 months ago, but a very different one now
2/ Completion - Now the English aren't the quickest builders around.... and all the Pols have gone home:lol:
In my eyes it simply isn't going to happen
Highlander
09-01-2009, 23:07
Are Donington having a full race program this year, as previous years? BTCC, BSB, Moto GP etc? Will that not hamper things, if so. And if not, will they not lose money?
lovegroova
10-01-2009, 10:46
FWIW, it's Donington, no double "n". :)
They have a full programme this year. The changes to the track itself are not actually that extensive and would proably be done over the winter months.
The plans are here http://www.donington-park.co.uk/formula-one-plans and you can see from the overall plan here http://www.donington-park.co.uk/files/pdf/master_plan.pdf that the track changes are not all that extensive.
Looking at the new Donny (double "n" ;) ) loop at the end of the track, it looks very much like the new-ish N'berg loop which worked very well but the long sweep won't help overtaking.
lovegroova
10-01-2009, 13:14
Looking at the new Donny (double "n" ;) ) loop at the end of the track, it looks very much like the new-ish N'berg loop which worked very well but the long sweep won't help overtaking.
I guess most overtaking will take place at the new turn 1 (currently the Melbourne hairpin).
It'd be great if there is some dicing down through Craner curves and into the Old Hairpin but I can't see it happening.
one thing I will say about the F1 at donnington
there won't be very much overtaking on the a453 on the way there. An utterly horrible road, and I can't believe they have allowed the f1 to take place there without upgrading it.
lovegroova
10-01-2009, 16:30
one thing I will say about the F1 at donnington
there won't be very much overtaking on the a453 on the way there. An utterly horrible road, and I can't believe they have allowed the f1 to take place there without upgrading it.
Well, you won't be driving along it to get to the F1. Planning consent has only been given on the basis that a park and ride scheme is set up.
I'm quite pleased, especially after millions of taxpayers' money was wasted on the A43 at Silverstone.
See here for more details of how things will hopefully work http://www.grandprix.com/ft/ft21058.HTML
The biggest surprise in his Grand Prix plan is for there to be almost no access to the circuit for private cars. Club members will be allowed to drive in but everyone else will have to use park-and-ride schemes. Many big events these days do not allow cars to drive right into the venue but motorsport has been slow to follow. The idea is environmentally-friendly and in the case of Donington is based on the fact that the roads are simply not capable of coping with the traffic flow. Gillett argues that parking away from the track and being whisked in to the circuit by means of an efficient bus service is a much better option as people will be able to come and go much more easily. It also help that construction of a new East Midlands Parkway railway station on the main railway line between London and Nottingham, around three miles to the east of the circuit, is now nearly complete. He plans for fast trains from London which will mena that fans can be home after the race in two hours. At some Grand Prix that would not get you out of the car park. In the longer term there is a good chance that there will eventually be a permanent light rail service established between East Midlands Parkway station and the airport next to the circuit. There is thus potential for this to be extended a little further to serve the circuit as well.
Getting rid of the need for parking space means that there are much better options for those with recreational vehicles and part of the British GP plan is to develop the infrastructure necessary to make camping at the circuit a pleasant experience with electricity and water and easy access to local shops. In this way he is able to get the support of the local community which will see benefits from the event, rather than just disruption. Working with the community, rather than against it, he hopes to convince the doubters that the entire Three City Region (covering Nottingham, Derby and Leicester) will benefit from the event.
Well, you won't be driving along it to get to the F1. Planning consent has only been given on the basis that a park and ride scheme is set up.
I'm quite pleased, especially after millions of taxpayers' money was wasted on the A43 at Silverstone.
See here for more details of how things will hopefully work http://www.grandprix.com/ft/ft21058.HTML.[/I]
Wasted? The benefits of upgrading the A43 weren't limited to a single weekend in July were they. It's a good link road from the M40 to M1 for the rest of the year ;)
Not keen on park and ride idea I have to say, though there is no choice on that front. I guess we'll have to see how it works in practice.
lovegroova
12-01-2009, 12:42
Wasted? The benefits of upgrading the A43 weren't limited to a single weekend in July were they. It's a good link road from the M40 to M1 for the rest of the year ;)
Not keen on park and ride idea I have to say, though there is no choice on that front. I guess we'll have to see how it works in practice.
Probably a total disaster, as it's in Britain. And at least £120 per ticket, I'll be watching at home...
Probably a total disaster, as it's in Britain. And at least £120 per ticket, I'll be watching at home...
£120:lol:
Cheapest ticket for the weekend this year is £125:notworthy And believe me watching at home isn't a patch on been there:thumbs:
Highlander
12-01-2009, 22:34
A bit OT, but looks like Silverstone has got Moto GP from 2010.
http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/01/12/official_silverstone_gets_british_grand_.html
nutter45
13-01-2009, 08:42
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7825750.stm
:gag: It's not just the BMW that is hideously ugly :gag: :gag:
Highlander
13-01-2009, 08:51
See here for more details of how things will hopefully work http://www.grandprix.com/ft/ft21058.HTML
Just read that, and I find this a bit incredulous. Can they close down a major international airport!!
Perhaps the most spectacular element of his plan is to close East Midlands Airport over the race weekend and use the facilities to fly in F1 charters from all over Europe, executive jets, helicopters and to use the airport parking. To achieve this he simply has to offer the airlines involved a better deal than they would get from passengers.
Mandrill
13-01-2009, 14:37
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7825750.stm
:gag: It's not just the BMW that is hideously ugly :gag: :gag:
I just hope these changes make the racing more exciting as the cars looked bloody awful.
nutter45
13-01-2009, 17:39
My guess would be that we're going to see a hell of a lot of broken front wings, they look a bit wider than the car now :nuts:
Will be really interesting to see how the (Formula Palmer Audi-style) KERS works out. Must be a good thing racing-wise, as long as it is even between the teams :suspect:
lovegroova
13-01-2009, 18:03
£120:lol:
Cheapest ticket for the weekend this year is £125:notworthy And believe me watching at home isn't a patch on been there:thumbs:
General admissin for Sunday is £109 this year, so £120 was a reasonable guesstimate I thought.
My live GP experience was distinctly underwhelming, and I got a free ticket. At over £100, I'd have been really fed up.
Highlander
13-01-2009, 20:09
I've only been once before , and feel the same as lovegroova. I was stood pretty much at the back of a crowd, maybe 30+ people deep. Just ended up watching it on the big screen, as there was no chance of actually seeing the cars!! Going the year they had all the traffic chaos etc didn't help either. We (me and my 3 bros) had to abandon our car about an hours walk from the circuit, and we made it just as they left for the parade lap. 1pm? We left at 5:30 in the morning to travel the 45 odd miles there.
Can they close down a major international airport!!
East Midlands a major international airport:lol::doh:
More a more serious note during the F1 weekend the busiest airport in the UK is the land strip at Silverstone:nuts:
Why only go on the Sunday as it's the day with the least action. I've done 5 GP's now and each time (for whatever reasons)never done the full three days, and as long as they don't change the date I will do the full weekend this year.
The first two times I went I had general admission with centre transfer but there is no way I would do general admission as they start queuing to get into the circuit at 5pm on the Saturday:eek:
Traffic problems are now sorted as long as you know where you're going:D
Mandrill
16-01-2009, 10:41
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7832580.stm
Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone says he wants Ferrari driver Felipe Massa to win this year's world championship.
The 78-year-old said the Brazilian had endured "bad luck" in losing out to McLaren's Lewis Hamilton by one point last season despite winning more races.
"I hoped that Felipe would do something last year so let's hope he does it this year," Ecclestone said.
"Lewis had bad luck the year before and [then] won. Felipe had bad luck last year so I hope he recovers."
Ecclestone made the comments on a visit to Ferrari's annual publicity event at the Madonna di Campiglio ski resort, where he wore a red jacket resembling official Ferrari team kit.
His remarks came in the context of his continuing campaign to radically overhaul the F1 points system.
Ecclestone wants to introduce a new system whereby the driver with most race victories would be champion.
I don't think a guy that is second who's got a lot of points should be world champion
Bernie Ecclestone
Last year Massa won six races to Hamilton's five, although one of the Ferrari driver's wins was in the Belgian Grand Prix, where Hamilton was controversially stripped of victory for an infringement.
"Forget the word medals," Ecclestone said, referring to his previous proposal that would see gold, silver and bronze medals awarded to the top three finishers.
"I just think the guy that wins the most races should win the championship," Ecclestone said.
"I don't think a guy that is second who's got a lot of points should be world champion, that's all.
"Last year a lot of them sat there being second. It's up to the teams to really push that through. I hope they have enough sense to agree."
Hamilton, whose new car is unveiled on Friday, clinched the title in dramatic style on the last corner of the final race in Brazil - passing Toyota's Timo Glock to move into the fifth position he needed to clinch the championship.
Had he failed to get past, Massa - who won the race - would have been champion.
Felipe Massa
Massa missed out on last year's drivers' title by one point
Hamilton drove a deliberately conservative race, aiming to stay out of trouble and secure only the fifth place needed to ensure he finished above Massa in the final rankings.
"He did what he had to do to win the championship. I'm not complaining, I don't blame him," Ecclestone said.
"What I'm trying to see is that the person who has won the most races is the world champion because it's a bit cranky that although somebody who maybe won one or two races has got more points than the guy who won five races... it just doesn't seem right.
"Last year, I'm sorry to have to say this, and he would admit it, Lewis in lots of cases didn't bother to try and win because to get two points it's not worth taking the risk. I want them to take the risks."
Had Ecclestone's proposed system been in place in the past, the team he used to run, Brabham, would not have won the titles they clinched with Nelson Piquet in 1981 and '83.
Ecclestone denied he was in Madonna to smooth tensions with Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo, who has been critical of the way F1 is being run.
"It's not my intention (to meet him). To be honest it's a cheap weekend for me," he said
If you want to have the person who wins the most races be champion then change the points system back to the old version or modify in some way but have the winner have more than a 2 point gap for winning the race.
His comments on Hamilton driving made me laugh considering how when Hamilton did take a risk he was punished for it.
rbullivant
16-01-2009, 12:34
What is his problem with Lewis Hamilton? He always seems most offended that he won the drivers title
R
This (http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/9849/ferrari2482009editedyj8.jpg) seems to be the only angle that the new cars don't look laughable, and with the wheel covers they look even more like toy cars.
Except that isn't a picture of the real Ferrari F60.
There's the fact that the picture is labelled F2009 for a start (which it would have been called if they had followed the precident of the last few years, but didn't).
The F60 doesn't have the "sharks fin" engine covers, nor a "conventional" approach to wing mirror mounting.
And lets not even get onto the sponsorship stickers or that it has last years rear wing design.
rezabelady
16-01-2009, 16:30
Been a few years since Vodafone sponsored Ferrari and they only use the Marlboro barcode these days, don't they?
I think people will get used to the new design once they've all lined up in Melbourne. Actually, I've already convinced myself that the Ferrari looks ok in the low-angle front (http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/ferrarif60_2009f1car_2.jpg), side (http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/ferrarif60_2009f1car_3.jpg) and team (http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/ferrarif60_2009f1car_4.jpg) promo shots (altho the ones on the track were not so good). The McLaren also looked alright today, but it might have been the angle at which they had it mounted.
Can anyone enlighten me as to how the new wing designs will aid overtaking (or other intended benefits)?
Right, well the short version is to stop the turbulance from the rear wing disturbing the performance of the following cars front wing. The cross section of the middle part of the new front end is in fact FIA dictated, and produces no downforce, so only the outside sections of the new front wing is downforce generating. This transition is fairly obvious with the 3 currently launched cars, with the second level of wing towards the outside.
So essentially, the new narrow high rear wing produces turbulance high and in the middle, but the new low wide front wing generates downforce lowdown on the outside edges of the car, so hence should be less affected by closely following another car then was previously the case.
Also the front wing angle is now driver adjustable (something like 1 degree total adjustment, no more then 2 (I think) adjustments a lap. This is since even in the absence of turblance (which can't be completely eliminated anyway), the same low pressure which alows slipstreaming also reduces the amount of downforce the front wing produces, which tends to induce understeer so reduce how close you can follow through a corner. With an adjustable front wing, in principle the additional speed from slipstreaming can be traded off against the reduction in front end downforce. The 2 adjustments per lap is to stop it just being adjusted for every corner and long straight.
Not wing related, but the return of slick tyres is also to tilt the balance of aerodynamic vs mechanical grip more towards mechanical grip, what with the latter being completely unaffected by nearby cars.
To me the only thing which makes these cars look wierd is how narrow the rear wing is, but frankly having got so used to the 2000's era look of F1 cars, the mid 90's cars, and especially the late 80's, cars look wierd, so I'm sure I'll adjust. But at the mo it does mean the headon shots which highlight the width of the rear wing is their worst angle.
Personally I prefer the look of the MP4-24 so far, the curves just seem to sweep better, particularly like the oval air intakes and exhaust outlets. The wing mirrors of the F60 just look fugly.
DanWilde1966
16-01-2009, 17:37
Yikes - Ron Dennis announcing that he's handing over the reigns of the F1 operation to Martin Whitmarsh...
Yikes - Ron Dennis announcing that he's handing over the reigns of the F1 operation to Martin Whitmarsh...Well, Ron's still CEO & Chairman of McLaren, it's just the day to day of running the F1 team he's stepping back from. Not the most unexpected news ever.
rezabelady
16-01-2009, 19:28
Cheers, Mr Nice.. nice to understand how they work, hopefully we will be able to see the effect of the changes on the track.
Yikes - Ron Dennis announcing that he's handing over the reigns of the F1 operation to Martin Whitmarsh...
This has been coming for a while though with Whitmarsh taling over more responsibilities and having much more camera time in interviews etc.
Personally I prefer the look of the MP4-24 so far, the curves just seem to sweep better, particularly like the oval air intakes and exhaust outlets. The wing mirrors of the F60 just look fugly.
Gotta agree that the maclaren looks the best of all the current launches. or maybe its just because its silver ;) :thumbs:
Max Mosley being as classy as ever, as well as saying he might seek a further term (what a surprise):
Mosley added that he expected up to seven candidates to enter the race to be the new FIA president, although rubbished recent speculation in the Scottish media suggesting that the former Royal Bank of Scotland chief executive Sir Fred Goodwin was in the running.
"Last week Sir Fred called me to say it was all nonsense. He was obviously rather embarrassed," Mosley said.
"The interesting thing is where it (the rumours) could have come from. It has to be someone with some kind of connection to F1. He's got to have some connection with Scotland.
"He's got to have no understanding of how F1 or the FIA work, and he has to be unusually stupid. There's at least one person who ticks all those boxes."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73124
The Bear
06-02-2009, 14:03
Pretty harsh on David Coulthard if you ask me ;)
:lol:
I assume he means Jackie Stewart from that description I'd have thought?
The Bear
13-02-2009, 11:42
Simulation of Donington up on BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7886964.stm
New infield section reminds me a little bit of Spain (the F1 track not the country!).
fredfox_uk
13-02-2009, 13:17
:lol:
I assume he means Jackie Stewart from that description I'd have thought?
Surely he means Gordon Brown ?
Simulation of Donington up on BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7886964.stm
New infield section reminds me a little bit of Spain (the F1 track not the country!).
What was he running that on, the new Codemasters F1 game?
fattyboombatty
13-02-2009, 15:43
where's the huge dip/hill, or am i thinking of somewhere else?
Surely he means Gordon Brown ?Max Mosley and Jackie Stewart have had many a 'war of words' before (and Gordon Brown's probably got a bit too much power for even Max to insult!)
The Bear
14-02-2009, 11:19
Honda set to be saved by Brazilian investors if you believe reports, though possibly only for the first 4 races. They'll stick Bruno Senna in one of the seats and presumably Button in the other.
Only 3 drivers have paid for their Superlicences so far due to the GPDA's ridiculous stance. I'm 100% convinced the FIA won't back down, nor do I think they should, so either the drivers are going to pay up (to be allowed to race) or they'll have to convince their teams/sponsors to fork out.
Related articles:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=37010
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=36918
Highlander
14-02-2009, 15:23
I'm 100% convinced the FIA won't back down, nor do I think they should, so either the drivers are going to pay up (to be allowed to race) or they'll have to convince their teams/sponsors to fork out.
Regardless of whether the drivers can afford it or not, you agree with a 500% increase?
I think if the FIA reviewed there costs (particularly those for Driver/marshall safety etc) and found that actually, the drivers were paying far far less than was required, then yes, regardless of whether it was a 500% increase or not, I'd support it.
edit: Maybe the drivers should request we go back to the old 10-6-4-3-2-1 system. :) They pay less too. Win win alround.
edit2: Afaik the 500% increase was last year. They agreed to that last year. Is the rise this year, not in line with inflation? 2 or 3%?
edit3: I wonder if the 3 drivers are Kimi, Felipe & Hamilton. They're not in the GPDA, are they? Also I'm not saying I agree with the whole pts/fee thing but they've agreed to it previously.
Is it commonplace in other sports to have to pay for a licence each year to take part?
I think if the FIA reviewed there costs (particularly those for Driver/marshall safety etc) and found that actually, the drivers were paying far far less than was required,That FIA gave away the marketing rights to Bernie for a century (or whatever) isn't the drivers problem.
slideymoo
15-02-2009, 10:36
It seems stupid that the drivers have to pay to take part, the money should come from the money that they make selling race rights at overinflated prices to countries like india and china.
Highlander
15-02-2009, 11:16
I think if the FIA reviewed there costs (particularly those for Driver/marshall safety etc) and found that actually, the drivers were paying far far less than was required
Do the FIA pay for any of that though? The teams would pay for car development and driver safety? The circuit owners would take care of marshall safety? Where does the FIA come into it? Apart from dictating what is required, or else you ain't having our GP.
I think it's the norm to pay an entrance fee to participate in most sports. But it's probably the team that normally pays the entrance fee. I'm guessing here, but I'd guess that the FIA are being greedy here, and are charging both the teams and the drivers to participate in F1?
I do think that a system where what you pay is based largely on the performance of the car you drive is rather dumb. It'd be interesting to see what the prize money given to each driver is, to compare the prize money per point/entrance fee per point, but the F1 prize money is apparently kept secret.
I don't have a problem with the highest earning drivers paying more though, but the FIA should justify any price rises (but instead Max Mosley tried to do the opposite by asking the drivers for their earnings).
I don't have a problem with the highest earning drivers paying more though, but the FIA should justify any price rises (but instead Max Mosley tried to do the opposite by asking the drivers for their earnings).
They did this in response to the drivers last year citing Kubica as an example of a driver who won a lot of points & would have had to pay a substantial amount out of his 'low' salary. Typically Max, put it to them that if it was a question of hardship, they could review this individually, if the drivers showed them (ie their earnings) that this was the case.
I do agree though that the FIA should show complete transparency as to where this money goes but I've not seen this arguement presented by the GPDA, and I can't fathom why not. Unless I missed it. Rumours of suggested strike action is nonsense. The drivers won't do it. If 3 have already paid, though the GPDA may suggest that this is incorrect and merely a devisive ploy by the FIA (I'm sure I saw a Vettel quote saying he had paid though) then they're already split.
The drivers should have mediated via FOTA during the off-season, seeing that power base appears to be on the increase. I guess ultimately they will.
still average joe
18-02-2009, 14:43
Virgin F1??
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7896784.stm
Andrew70
24-02-2009, 12:26
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73405
"The BBC has announced that it will broadcast all Formula One sessions - including free practice – both on television and online this year."
"The BBC has also promised to allow fans to customize their viewing experience – with the choice of three different video streams. There will also be options for split-screen action; a live leaderboard; in-car cameras and a choice of commentary."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73405
"The BBC has announced that it will broadcast all Formula One sessions - including free practice – both on television and online this year."
"The BBC has also promised to allow fans to customize their viewing experience – with the choice of three different video streams. There will also be options for split-screen action; a live leaderboard; in-car cameras and a choice of commentary."
That'll have to be on the red button then as they'll never interrupt Friday lunchtime TV (Daily Politics/Working Lunch etc) for it.
A new team USF1 is going to be announced today:
http://www.usf1.com/
Apparently they will enter the 2010/11 season with all American drivers/staff/equipment with the team based in the US.
They want Danica Patrick to be their driver.
Panavision
24-02-2009, 14:40
Ross Brawn leads a management buy-out of Honda.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73408
While all this is going on, whats happening to testing at "Honda"? Is the car in limbo, will they be weeks/months behind the rest if a buyout takes place?
Panavision
24-02-2009, 15:12
They could be testing as early as next week. Apparently the Merc engine was an easy fit.
Andrew70
24-02-2009, 15:19
While all this is going on, whats happening to testing at "Honda"? Is the car in limbo, will they be weeks/months behind the rest if a buyout takes place?
They can't let the decision go to the wire as they haven't/can't mate the engine (Mercedes) to the car until the full season funding commitment is in place.
I've also heard today that Silverstone has refused the FIAs request to allow tyre testing days at the circuit this year.
I hope it's not dummy spitting as I'm not convinced that Donnington is going to happen and this wouldn't help the only viable venue's chances of hosting a 2009 British GP.
fattyboombatty
24-02-2009, 16:04
They want Danica Patrick to be their driver.
I want Danica Patrick to be their driver, too.:luv:
I want Danica Patrick to be their driver, too.:luv:
Yeah then she can roll around in midfield and sulk when she doesn't win. :p
Andrew70
26-02-2009, 09:34
More details of BBC coverage
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/7755219.stm
The Bear
26-02-2009, 10:45
The BBC's red button interactive TV service will broadcast live coverage of all on-track sessions - Friday and Saturday practice, qualifying and race.
a split screen comprising the main network feed; an in-car camera feed and leaderboard
For the first time, video will be available in high quality, enabling viewers to watch on the internet near-television quality video.
:clap: :notworthy
Doesn't mention HD yet though. I just assume it won't be possible, unless they simply upscale all the broadcasts.
BBC can't show upscaled HD on BBC HD. The trust won't let them. I doubt their servers will handle HD internet streaming.
So anyway, what is the 'leaderboard'. I hope that means live timings/gap updates or else it is pretty pointless.
The Bear
26-02-2009, 12:44
I'm hoping it's the live timings too, though will there be enough space in a split-screen view to show it?
Hope that any of you going have already bought your tickets.
No three day or Sunday General admission tickets left:eek:
Nope so now I'm not going. Arse
Andrew70
27-02-2009, 00:25
I've been offered a Friday Silverstone ticket (albeit a working day).
No testing at Silverstone this year (normally held 3ish weeks before GP). Very surprised Silverstone aren't cashing in on Lewismania
Maybe there is life in the ol' dog yet.... (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=45200)
DVDWotcha
04-03-2009, 12:10
Maybe there is life in the ol' dog yet.... (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=45200)
Or maybe Senna didn't want to commit to a team where the future is uncertain ?
...and surely, after last year and this years lack of any testing, this years tail end Charlies.
fattyboombatty
04-03-2009, 13:22
but i thought honda had said all along that they were putting their "energies" into the 2009 season. won't all that development still be ready to use?
If you stop in F1 you lose touch, they've stopped for over a month. That'll hurt them for sure, sorry.... "fursure". ;)
fattyboombatty
04-03-2009, 17:51
did they actually stop, as in down tools, or was there still work being done?
The Bear
04-03-2009, 18:12
I thought they had carried on as if they were going to be bought out until they were told otherwise.
If you stop in F1 you lose touch, they've stopped for over a month. That'll hurt them for sure, sorry.... "fursure". ;)This is rather simplifying it, but if, for example, they started development on the car four months earlier than other teams, then surely a loss of one month would put them still 'three month ahead'.
A lack of testing as of yet will hurt them of course, but I'm not sure by how much.
Well if you think they have a chance put your money where your mouth is and pick them for this years DVDF Fantasy F1 team. I won't be ;)
In answering a viewers question The Radio Times has confirmed that the original version of 'The Chain' will be used as the theme music for F1 coverage and not some funky, edgy remixed version.
The Bear
05-03-2009, 12:12
Superb news!
DanWilde1966
05-03-2009, 12:33
Honda announcement due today:
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=45211
The BBC have launched a new F1 site: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one - very nice :thumbs:
DanWilde1966
05-03-2009, 14:19
Yep - this looks pretty good!
The Bear
05-03-2009, 14:29
looks good. There's a very good video with Vettel explaining the changes for the season, and some great graphics morphing the parts of the car into the new regulations.
Also, the Regulations section at http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8692/ looks great. I think that site's been revamped as well, but the regs are all nicely available with links to each section down the right. That will be very useful during the season.
I think it's going to be the best ever season for TV and Online coverage. Really looking forward to it now!
The Bear
05-03-2009, 14:34
And if you miss James Allen already (!) then you can keep up with him on his F1 Blog:
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/
He was always much better as an analyst of the races and his comments on current news stories look decent.
Now official: Honda's F1 team sold, now called 'Brawn GP', drivers are Button and Barrichello.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73577
Stupid bleedin name if you ask me, but good that they've saved the team :)
Stupid bleedin name if you ask meWell, before the rise of manufacturer teams it was pratically standard to just name the team after the owner/founder, cf McLaren & Williams who are still around.
And you couldn't exactly call them the 'spent loads of cash like Toyota but achieved nowt really to show for it' team! ;)
First image of the new Brawn GP car on track at Silverstone today http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73586
Jenson driving...
looks good. There's a very good video with Vettel explaining the changes for the season, and some great graphics morphing the parts of the car into the new regulations.
Was just reading that story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7906290.stm) and saw the picture of the old red bull next to the new one. New car is definitely more ugly :)
Harold1066
06-03-2009, 17:32
...pick them for this years DVDF Fantasy F1 team. I won't be ;)
I may pick them; just to give people a chance of winning :D
Spooky_uk
07-03-2009, 13:23
In answering a viewers question The Radio Times has confirmed that the original version of 'The Chain' will be used as the theme music for F1 coverage and not some funky, edgy remixed version.
good news. after the gutting news of no HD this year this made my day :thumbs:
PTBurkis
07-03-2009, 17:31
Does anyone know if BBC will be doing some sort of F1 build up program? ITV used to do a 2 hour show on a Sunday about 2 weeks before the start of the season, so they could explain any changes, the cars, drivers, teams etc.....
Any ideas?
The Bear
08-03-2009, 13:02
There's some more detail on the coverage in the blogs on the BBC site. Nothing about a preview show but I have asked. Important detais include:
Qualifying:
This is where the BBC has shown how excited it is at getting F1 back, because we will be on-air for an hour before qualifying starts.
In this hour we have time to look back at the previous race, take on any stories that have emerged in the last couple of weeks and we will also give the drivers a chance to tell us who they are.
Race:
There won't be a studio (we are not allowed to put one anywhere decent, or with a view of the track, for example) so we will present from the paddock, the pit lane or anywhere that is interesting and makes sense.
Martin will do his grid walks (not necessarily every race - it will depend who is around) and we will hear from all the main players in these crucial last few minutes before the race is off.
Red Button Coverage:
There will be a composite stream with the main race picture and an on-board camera (that we will switch to keep it relevant to the race action) together with a leaderboard and some other statistical information. We are not allowed to give you the timing pages incidentally, but you can see these on www.formula1.com.
The multi-screen option on the red button will only be available during the race.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/sporteditors/2009/03/f1_editor_the_best_job_in_the.html?
rbullivant
08-03-2009, 21:47
What do they mean that MB gridwalks will depend on "who is around?" Surely the drivers, etc. are the people to talk to and this implies they want celebrity gawkers to interview.
From the above it looks like the race itself will be covered but nothing much before it, probably leaving all the prerace for qualifying on a digital channel.
R
From the above it looks like the race itself will be covered but nothing much before it, probably leaving all the prerace for qualifying on a digital channel.
Well actually their schedule for the first four races ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/7755219.stm#schedule ) has them down for BBC1 coverage starting one hour prior to race start, just like qualifying coverage.
The Bear
08-03-2009, 22:34
Yes, this bit in the blog gave it away:
Race day, too, will see one hour's build up on BBC One.
;)
Well if you think they have a chance put your money where your mouth is and pick them for this years DVDF Fantasy F1 team. I won't be ;)Looks like we can't pick them for Fantasy F1 now, damnit ;)
The testing today has been very impressive for Brawn GP though - they could be running light (maybe fishing for sponsors), but to come to their first proper day of testing and achieve those speeds immediately is a very good sign :)
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73631
I hope they do well personally, they deserve a break after all the crap they've been through over the last few years.
Looks like we can't pick them for Fantasy F1 now, damnit ;)
and of course that's the only reason you won't be choosing them, right? :suspect:
I too hope they'll do well but I just can't see it.
and of course that's the only reason you won't be choosing them, right? :suspect:I probably would have if they'd been one of the inexpensive options - would have been worth a punt as an unknown quantity!
Panavision
10-03-2009, 09:26
BRAWN GP very fast on heavy fuel loads.
rbullivant
10-03-2009, 09:54
They;ve got an engine giving them an extra 60bhp than they had last year, might do OK
R
The Bear
10-03-2009, 10:37
You'd think that Brawn would have a few technical tricks up his sleeve from his Ferrari days that have gone into the new design.
Force India have been described as McLarenLite this season as they are sharing engines, KERS and gearboxes from them. So they could be a dark horse as well.
mikthe20
10-03-2009, 23:12
You'd think that Brawn would have a few technical tricks up his sleeve from his Ferrari days that have gone into the new design.
I think where we'll seen Brawn's tricks is race tactics - particularly number and timing of pitstops. He was a master at Ferrari.
He only got to pull it off once in Britain last year and that was as much luck than judgement.
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/press-stole-my-dignity%2c-not-gang-of-whores-thrashing-my-bare-arse%2c-claims-mosley-200903111634/ :lol:
DanWilde1966
12-03-2009, 14:10
The testing today has been very impressive for Brawn GP though - they could be running light (maybe fishing for sponsors), but to come to their first proper day of testing and achieve those speeds immediately is a very good sign :)With Button's laptimes looking so solid, what's the betting that he'll win the first race? It would be a fantastic story after the trouble that team has been through.
And now Rubens is taking the mickey out of the rest of the field. Still only testing but looking good. Meanwhile what the hells going on at mclaren?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7940648.stm
Surely McLaren aren't sandbagging are they? Worrying times for them from the outside but the engine must be OK so I reckon they'll come good.
These new rules are great for the first race. I don't have a clue what the grid will look like. Long term whether the racing improves we'll have to wait and see.
Saw 'trailerette' on BBC1 with a snippet of "The Chain". The chain, 1980's looking cars, slicks. Marvellous. Bring it on!
DanWilde1966
13-03-2009, 09:44
William Hill is taking bets on Button (10-1) and Barrichello (25-1) to win the championship. I might be having a little flutter...
If either wins then they'll have to dig John Candy up to play Ross in the movie of the unlikely story.
DanWilde1966
13-03-2009, 10:06
If either wins then they'll have to dig John Candy up to play Ross in the movie of the unlikely story.Indeed. But what a story it would be... Check out Barrichello's interview over at www.f1.com. He's talking about this car in the same breath as the 2003 Ferrari, vis-a-vis "out of the box" reliability and speed. He sounds like one happy man.
Ooops, McLaren apperently 'aren't competitive' and face a race against time to get it right for the start of the seaso. Or are they :suspect: .
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7941572.stm
Team boss Martin Whitmarsh said: "We are working hard to resolve a performance shortfall."
Norbert Haug, engine partner Mercedes' motorsport boss, added: "We are definitely not fast enough and not competitive enough to aim for wins."
...
When asked if the MP4-24 was fast enough, Whitmarsh conceded: "Not at the moment - and certainly not by our team's extremely high standards.
"Next week we will be testing at Jerez, which many of our rivals will not be.
"We aim to continue to develop the car, and the result should be measurable on the stopwatch.
"Will MP4-24 be as quick as we want it to be by 29 March? Perhaps not.
"Will it be quicker than it has been this week at the Barcelona test? Yes."
...
"Initial testing of the MP4-24, which first ran with an interim aero package, went in accordance with our early developmental expectations," he said.
"This week the car has run in Barcelona with an updated aero package and a performance shortfall has been identified
"Our Mercedes-Benz engine is strong so the MP4-24's performance shortfall is clearly chassis-centric.
"Ron, Norbert and I have enormous faith in the ability of our engineers and we are working as hard as they are to make the MP4-24 competitive enough to win Grands Prix."
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