View Full Version : Heroes 3x08 "Villains" *SPOILERS*
I really enjoyed the episode this week. Nice insights into several characters and a lot of explaining done (especially how Sylar became Sylar, and how Arthur got into the state he was).
:eek: at the ending.
sleepy67
11-11-2008, 17:55
Oh I hope Hiro dies.
And way to put the boot into HRG characters. Surely a program struggling should no better than to mess with one if its strongest asets in such a destructive manner.
Grandmaster
11-11-2008, 17:57
Can't say I thought it was too great. There seemed to be a major continuity reboot in Elle's character for example - her psychosis, caused by her father pushing her abilities too much, seemed to be totally absent.
Oh I hope Hiro dies.
:razz:
Highlander
11-11-2008, 21:34
How come the paint the future guy didn't see that coming!!
Oh I hope Hiro dies.
And way to put the boot into HRG characters. Surely a program struggling should no better than to mess with one if its strongest asets in such a destructive manner.
Can't say I thought it was too great. There seemed to be a major continuity reboot in Elle's character for example - her psychosis, caused by her father pushing her abilities too much, seemed to be totally absent.
I think the whole point is to get people questioning who is good and who is bad. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and in this season it's flipping our comprehension of the main characters. Sylar seems to be becoming Gabriel again, Elle is being portrayed sympathetically (though that started at the end of season two), and even Angela Petrelli and Linderman are being painted as characters to sympathise with. On the other hand we have Suresh and HRG (though his character has always been a bit ambiguous).
I think with Elle, the more extreme aspects of her personality were negated by her obvious attraction to Gabriel, and the only time HRG seems to do the ethical thing is when Claire is involved, so his behaviour was hardly surprising.
PaulieC79
12-11-2008, 08:21
I enjoyed it. Some retconning of the backstory to fit what they're now doing but it worked for me. I'm really liking what they're doing with Sylar and Angela Petrelli this season.
mr starface
12-11-2008, 09:22
Good episode but surely Arthur cant have taken Hiros powers as well, he'll have em all in a few weeks at this rate!
Highlander
12-11-2008, 09:35
My guess is that Ando will wack Arthur over the head with THE shovel, just in time...
magneticman
12-11-2008, 09:52
"I understand you've been dreaming about me?"
So he knows when you even think about him?!
The ending was the best bit imo, wasn't too interested in the rest as nothing really happened apart from explaining Arthur's 'death' and that Claire's mum is Flint's older sister. Everything else was just stuff we've seen/know shown from a different viewpoint; felt like this was a breather.
Has Hiro brought this thread to us from two years in the future?
Surely Arthur had Hiro's powers already, due to absorbing Peter's. Presumably he's draining Hiro to remove them rather than take them. Still, going by recent standards, the writers had probably forgotten that anyway...
PaulieC79
12-11-2008, 11:38
My guess is that Ando will wack Arthur over the head with THE shovel, just in time...
As long as there is the comedy clunk as well, that's fine with me :thumbs:
Surely Arthur had Hiro's powers already, due to absorbing Peter's. Presumably he's draining Hiro to remove them rather than take them. Still, going by recent standards, the writers had probably forgotten that anyway...
Is it possible that Arthur only has the power he saw Peter use? Peters current lack of abilities could be down to his body being in shock just like Arthur said when Peter regained consciousness (That might explain how he survived the fall, wich raises further questions about whos side Sylar is on).
I can only see four ways out of the Hiro vs Arthur ending.....
1. Ando knocking Arthur out
2. Hiro stopping time (Will only work if Arthur hasnt taken all of Peters abilities)
3. Future Hiro saving himself (I find this one especially unlikely)
4. The eclipse will start just as Arthur is about to take Hiros powers and it will cause enough chaos to stop him.
Surely Arthur had Hiro's powers already, due to absorbing Peter's.
I assumed Arthur used it to get to Africa quickly.
I thought it was boring and unnecessary. The Elle/Gabriel scenes were cringy.
Anyone else now think Gabriel's future kid is Elle's?
Shingster
12-11-2008, 18:11
"I understand you've been dreaming about me?"
So he knows when you even think about him?!
No, but he should have gained 2 precog abilities from Peter alone when he drained him, Angela's dream ability and Isaac's paint ability. Peter could also have absorbed the abilities of Charles Deveaux, who seemed somewhat omniscient (although IIRC Pete's never exhibited these powers).
Shingster
12-11-2008, 18:20
Is it possible that Arthur only has the power he saw Peter use?
Seems unlikely, he took Peter's telekinetic ability and I don't think he used that did he? Didn't he just use his invisibility to walk in on the Pinehearst meet and then used his electricity power? I can' remember. :D
dekadent30
12-11-2008, 19:31
Cool episode , i thought it will be boring
Can't say I thought it was too great. There seemed to be a major continuity reboot in Elle's character for example.
Also, the missus reckons that in season 1, Arthur was already dead - no reference to him just dying, and the scene where Peter gets out of Muhinder's(sp?) taxi implies suggest Arthur was still alive (albeit in hospital) at this point. What's going on?!? Is this a ham-fisted attempt at a reboot, or a ham-fisted attempt at continuity?
degeneration
12-11-2008, 19:47
Haven't read the rest of this thread to avoid spoilers... but Season 5?!?!?
Haven't read the rest of this thread to avoid spoilers... but Season 5?!?!?
:doh: Was looking at the Boston Legal episode as I typed the thread title. I'll change it.
Hopefully Season 4 will be much better now that Jeph Loeb has been ****-canned.
Professor Abronsius
12-11-2008, 21:05
Anyone else now think Gabriel's future kid is Elle's?
Was thinking the same thing... :thumbs:
Highlander
12-11-2008, 21:57
Also, the missus reckons that in season 1, Arthur was already dead - no reference to him just dying, and the scene where Peter gets out of Muhinder's(sp?) taxi implies suggest Arthur was still alive (albeit in hospital) at this point. What's going on?!? Is this a ham-fisted attempt at a reboot, or a ham-fisted attempt at continuity?
I seem to remember that Arthur died during season 1. As you saw in this episode, Nathan was going to blow the whistle on him and Malc McDowell, who's character name escpaes me atm. Not sure whether he was still alive when Peter got out of the taxi, but what makes you think that?
Also as far as Nathan was concerned his Dad topped himself, only Peter thought it was a heart attack.
I seem to remember that Arthur died during season 1. As you saw in this episode, Nathan was going to blow the whistle on him and Malc McDowell, who's character name escpaes me atm. Not sure whether he was still alive when Peter got out of the taxi, but what makes you think that?
Malc = Linderman, and we're pretty sure there was no reference to Arthur's death happening during season 1...
Also as far as Nathan was concerned his Dad topped himself, only Peter thought it was a heart attack.
...yeah, that's what we reckon too. Had a quick look at a couple of synopsiseseses on an episode guide, and none of them point to Arthurs death occuring during the season. Can't be arsed to dig out season 1 and watch it again, though. ;)
And the Chandra/Sylar thng doesn't make much sense now.
HubbaHubba
12-11-2008, 22:50
It's the guy Peter was looking after that died in Season 1.
Shingster
12-11-2008, 23:20
Malc = Linderman, and we're pretty sure there was no reference to Arthur's death happening during season 1...
Well i'm going from my own hazy memory as well, but he didn't die during season 1, IIRC he had died just a day or a few days before the story kicked off. I seem to recall them mentioning that their father had recently died in the pilot.
I also recall Nathan being certain their father killed himself, are they going to do another flashback where Angea or Linderman convince Nathan that their father actually killed himself. Also, did Nathan already know Linderman at the start of Season 1?
Everything to do with Sylar made no sense in this Flashback ep, did Ellle and HRG react like they knew Sylar well when they first met in seasons 1&2? Are we supposed to buy that Sylar and Elle have a romantic interest from their interaction in Season Two?
Ironically, it was HRG's characterisation that had someone rather irked in this thread, but out of all the characters in this flashback, he was the only one who was completely faithful to how he was presented at the start of the series (well, him and Peter).
Also had to laugh at Linderman's shock at Nathan surviving the car crash "who knows how he survived!!". This is exactly the sort of idiotic reasoning that EW pointed out in that article.
Highlander
12-11-2008, 23:49
OK. Just looked back at season one, and Peter's graduation is in episode 10 'six months ago'. Arthur's 'death' happened during this episode. So I am sort of correct. Arthur's 'death' was covered in season one, but it was before the start of the story?!!
http://heroeswiki.com/Arthur_Petrelli/Season_One
Also had to laugh at Linderman's shock at Nathan surviving the car crash "who knows how he survived!!". This is exactly the sort of idiotic reasoning that EW pointed out in that article.What article is that?
This show gets more annoying and more stupid with every episode. It's just ******* me off now.
Has Hiro brought this thread to us from two years in the future?
Haven't read the rest of this thread to avoid spoilers... but Season 5?!?!?
:doh: Was looking at the Boston Legal episode as I typed the thread title. I'll change it.
Must be less subtle with my comments next time. :suspect:
Also had to laugh at Linderman's shock at Nathan surviving the car crash "who knows how he survived!!". This is exactly the sort of idiotic reasoning that EW pointed out in that article.
Even better was Pa Petrelli "My son is starting to dig a bit too close to Linderman and me, I could just use my mind control powers on him but I think it would be more effective to just kill him in suspicious circumstances, that'll put a sure end to the investigation".
I think this is the last episode I'll bother watching. It's a parody of itself now. :(
To be fair, it was doomed as soon as they introduced the easy time travel.
I like how they've tried to write that option out by killing off one version of Peter and hobbling the other. They tried giving Hiro the Fear so that he'd no longer use it, but I think it's still an easy out for the writers, so they've just taken all his powers away now.
Pablo_Escobar
13-11-2008, 09:15
It was claimed that Aruthur had topped himself in Season 1 by ma pitrelli.
Shingster
13-11-2008, 09:41
What article is that?
'Heroes': Five Ways to Fix a Series In Crisis (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20235213,00.html)
Even better was Pa Petrelli "My son is starting to dig a bit too close to Linderman and me, I could just use my mind control powers on him but I think it would be more effective to just kill him in suspicious circumstances, that'll put a sure end to the investigation".
Haha yeah, it must be a hereditary disfunction in the Petrelli family where they're incapable of using the right power for the right job!
Great end to this episode, and the way the story tied into the first season made me a little nostalgic about how great that season was.
MrHat001
13-11-2008, 10:20
I don't recall ever seeing Sylar use the 'finger-gun' ability that he gained in the flash back. I guess it could just integrate with his psychokinesis power.
Bet it was a fun day on the playground when Trevor found out he had that ability.
Shattering glass when peter and salyer first met in season 1?
So how come Pa Petrelli is able to take people's powers? As far as I can see, he only had his one persuasion power before he ended up in hospital? Are we meant to assume he could also absorb powers but decided never to use it?
Maybe his natural power is nicking powers and he nicked mind control off someone else and, like you said, just didn't use it.
Of course we're putting far more thought into this than the people who get paid money to write this pony.
Highlander
13-11-2008, 13:05
Was there a hint of something, when Ma Petrelli said she wanted him cremated asap? Like he could somehow return from the dead?
Maybe she was scared resurrect him with the magic blood.
Was there a hint of something, when Ma Petrelli said she wanted him cremated asap? Like he could somehow return from the dead?
I took that to mean that she wanted the evidence of poisoning destroyed.
'Heroes': Five Ways to Fix a Series In Crisis (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20235213,00.html)ta! :thumbs:
So how come Pa Petrelli is able to take people's powers? As far as I can see, he only had his one persuasion power before he ended up in hospital? Are we meant to assume he could also absorb powers but decided never to use it?
I'd assumed that he had made his henchmen inject him with the mysterious serum that gave Nathan his flying ability, but now doesn't seem to work on anyone else. Hence the reason they need Suresh :thinking:
So how come Pa Petrelli is able to take people's powers? As far as I can see, he only had his one persuasion power before he ended up in hospital? Are we meant to assume he could also absorb powers but decided never to use it?
I did start wondering after watching this episode and with so much attention to his mind powers in it that maybe he is not taking people's powers, but he could just be persuading them that he has:thinking:
Of course this does not fall into with what happened to Adam, but maybe they will chuck in something else to explain this.
The one thing that stood out for me as wrong with the time line is that the way they showed things we had Clare go into the burning train then rescue someone which we saw in Season episode 1, while afterwards we still saw Pa Petrelli being poisoned by his Ma Petrelli.
This would mean that he was alive at the start os Season one, yet he has always been talked about as being dead before now.:shrug:
Up until the last two episodes I had been enjoying this season, but the last two have been a bit lame IMO. It almost feels as if they dont really know where to go with it so we have a couple of 'pause' episodes while they think about it.
I think there are only another 4 episodes in the Villains storyline so maybe the next few will start moving the story on again.
Next season I think its time that they moved on & maybe they could fight an outside threat to mankind/the world rather than another threat from within.
Another one I've thought of, heartbroken Meredith who had been harbouring vengeance against the company for 16 years over the death of her baby, find out she's alive and get reunited with her... and promptly tries to scam her?
Yeah the more I think about this one the more it falls apart.
In the past these flashback episodes have added a lot to the story, where I was just left feeling that this one had taken away.
It was almost a big as low point as watching 5 episodes of a powerless Syler stuck in a car with two of the most stupidest annoying idiots ever to be blessed with 'super powers' in the history of Super-heroes.
I suppose they could get round it by saying its how Hero imagined the past, or someone has gone back & changed the past slightly so we now have a different versions of events, but thats face it as much as I like(d) Heroes when they start contradiction & in a away ruining what they did just two years ago then there are signs of it all going tits up.
Still only around 8 weeks to LOST:)
I think this season started off a bit off but it's finding its feet and heading in the right direction. I was shocked to see Hiro at the end, looking forward to the next one now.
I think this season started off a bit off but it's finding its feet and heading in the right direction. I was shocked to see Hiro at the end, looking forward to the next one now.
Ha, i think the complete opposite. I started off quite enjoying it now i'm just getting a bit bored with it all. It probably doesn't help that i don't really give a toss about any of the characters anymore.
My review of this episode:
Pointless
Was this the equivalent of what Marvel used to call a "fill-in issue", when Jim Steranko et al didn't have time to work on the latest issue ?
unrealnils
14-11-2008, 20:05
Hopefully Season 4 will be much better now that Jeph Loeb has been ****-canned.
as in hush, batman guy :suspect:
not to worry the hatian will blank all our memories to make us think that the continuity is all fine ;)
That said they may use him to change memory of some of the characters about Arthur's death.
Mandrill
16-11-2008, 15:27
as in hush, batman guy :suspect:
Yup that's him
Anyone read the article on Digital Spy (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/a135687/cult-spy-is-heroes-losing-its-powers.html)?
What a load of jizz soaked onanism! Crucially, the fluctuation of characters may provide a coherent explanation for the show's flagging fortunes among a portion of the fans and critics. Over many past episodes, viewers have built up an affinity or loathing for most of the key characters, knowing exactly who to trust and who not to trust. So, apparently we don't like it when character motivation is subverted. No, what I don't like is changing a character's entire character just to fit the current plot! I've no problem with good people doing bad things (and vice versa) if it fits their character.
The intricately structured trips to the past and future may prove frustrating for some of the attention-lacking masses, Again, no, what I really hate is retconning events just because it's convenient to do so. It doesn't say "clever" to me it says "lazy".
Actually, what we may really dislike about Heroes is that its 12-30 year old audience members may be able to follow the dizzying complications of its plot far easier than us wrinkly over 30s.
Hardly! It's just turned to **** and any dressed-up excuse can't disguise that.
As Harsin pointed out with the Meredith example, it's more like they are hoping people aren't following and paying attention!
Bottom line, the writing sucks. Most of the cast* do their best with what they're given and the production values are as strong as ever so they aren't to blame.
*those that can act that is.
snowball
19-11-2008, 22:34
i've lost interest in this now although I'll watch the episodes on the Beeb. The attempts to explain the past and Elle's/HRG's involvement in Sylar's beginning's was hastily put together and crap, with no continuity from Season One. Its clear they're now making this season up as they go along.
I fear S3 Heroes is going down the same road Season 3 Lost was, with no sense of direction and poorly thought out storylines.
I really hope this show gets cancelled by Season 5 - until then, I'll probably continue wasting my time in watching this rubbish :)
anephric
19-11-2008, 23:06
I've been catching up on this after giving up after the first four and have given up again. It's just an appalling mess. Life's too short.
snowball
20-11-2008, 05:41
It's just an appalling mess. Life's too short.
indeed it is. I really can't be bothered with this now. Right now I'm thinking forget the next episode, its a waste of time. Only next week will tell if I can hold out :(. Shouldnt be too difficult NOT to watch it though ... i really dont have the craving to watch the next episode and wait for it to be shown on BBC2 next week.
snowball
20-11-2008, 20:34
someone please enlighten me.. .why does Pa Petrelli want Nathan dead?
someone please enlighten me.. .why does Pa Petrelli want Nathan dead?
Because of what he saw when he read his mind.
snowball
20-11-2008, 20:46
Because of what he saw when he read his mind.
:shrug: (sorry, i was only half concentrating when watching this one as i found it boring to be honest).
Use spoilers if necessary.
Pa Petrelli wanted Nathan dead because Nathan, in his role as a DA, was investigating Lindermann, and in the course of that investigation he'd be sure to uncover evidence that the man behind Lindermann was Pa Petrelli.
snowball
21-11-2008, 05:39
Pa Petrelli wanted Nathan dead because Nathan, in his role as a DA, was investigating Lindermann, and in the course of that investigation he'd be sure to uncover evidence that the man behind Lindermann was Pa Petrelli.
I'm on the edge of my seat already :nuts:
Jazzatola
21-11-2008, 09:36
I fear S3 Heroes is going down the same road Season 3 Lost was, with no sense of direction and poorly thought out storylines.I'm a massive Lost fan so this is a totally biased opinion.
The problem with season 3 of Lost was that the creators were padding out the plot because they didn't know how many years they were expected to stretch the story over. There's a definite decceleration of pace over the first three seasons. For the final few episodes of season 3 and all of season 4, after they resolved an end date with the network, the pace went right back up to season 1 levels. However, given all that, Lost was never as bad as Heroes is now. The plot was always consistent even if it did raise more questions than answers. Heroes is all over the place.
I still watch Heroes even though it has become beyond ridiculous, as it's still an entertaining enough way to waste 40mins of an evening. However, it is quite funny to think back to those who were all set to abandon Lost completely in favour of Heroes back in 2006/7.
^This. Basically.
Even at it's most wobbly point (Jack's tattoos) 'Lost' has never er, lost it the way Heroes has. Heroes wobbled from the finale of Season 1 and just keeps swinging never finding it's footing.
Terribly_Mauled
21-11-2008, 10:27
^
Opinions thirded. Lost S4 was the best thing I've watched this year I think.
snowball
21-11-2008, 19:21
opinion fourth-ed. Lost S3 was for the most part rubbish, but S4 was top notch. I dont think I'll be ditching Lost just yet , but I've already taken the Heroes series link off my SKy+. It was good while it lasted, but I have better things to do ....
opinion fourth-ed. Lost S3 was for the most part rubbish, but S4 was top notch. I dont think I'll be ditching Lost just yet , but I've already taken the Heroes series link off my SKy+. It was good while it lasted, but I have better things to do ....
...such as post 6 of the last 10 posts in a Heroes thread :lol:
gavinhanly
21-11-2008, 23:00
Opinion fifthed (this is perhaps getting silly now) - certainly Lost at its worst was miles ahead of the mess that Heroes is in now.
Still, with the sacking of most of the writers, at least the producers seem to realise this. But, as that's only just happned, don't expect any real improvement until the next arc starts post Christmas...
d.boyd1uk
22-11-2008, 08:46
TBH, the only characters I like is Hiro and his side kick, pa petrelli and syla are pretty good, i hate it when they go back and fore different heroes.
snowball
22-11-2008, 15:55
...such as post 6 of the last 10 posts in a Heroes thread :lol:
:eek: indeed. ;)
cockbongo
26-11-2008, 00:22
So, having already jacked in watching Heroes a few weeks ago, I thought i'd return to find out if it had got any better.
In itself, this was ok. But as part of an ongoing mythology and maintaining continuity, wasn't this complete and utter nonsense? I'm no uber-fan, but pretty much everything I saw in this episode contradicted something they have already told us.
That's the last straw. Bye Heroes.
snowball
26-11-2008, 20:28
I only lasted 10 mins into the current episode :)
basegreen
04-12-2008, 17:29
Just watched this, after running out of anything else to watch. Previously said I had given up but thought what is there to lose?
I want my 40 minutes back.
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