View Full Version : Neutral Density filters
scooby snacks
08-10-2008, 13:49
After looking at some of the amazing waterfall photos posted here, I'm after getting a neutral density filter to try and capture some water in motion. I'm looking at the Cokin P series as I already have the adaptor rings and holder. However, I'm not sure which to get - x2, x4 or x8:thinking:
Can anyone point me in the right direction please.
DeadYankee
08-10-2008, 14:20
Personally - I'd go for an ND8 but it delends on the conditions so really you need all 3. I just have an ND8 though
RobDickinson
08-10-2008, 19:18
You can always shift from ISO 100 to 400 or not stop down as much.
IMO start with ND8 work back, I should have.
I can recommend these. Cokin P size but better quality than the Cokin ND's
http://www.teamworkphoto.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=78_767_278
aerosoulz
08-10-2008, 20:58
I just bought some dirt cheap ones to experiment with (7day job) - ND4 and ND8. Quite pleased with the result, so I might invest in some better quality ones when finances permit.
The Cokin NDs reputedly have a colour cast. The Hitech ones are very highly regarded.
another recomendation for HiTech ones here and, very fast delivery when I ordered.
ArthurDent
10-10-2008, 06:32
You can always shift from ISO 100 to 400 or not stop down as much.
IMO start with ND8 work back, I should have.
:thinking:
Shouldn't this be the other way round Rob?
If the OP is trying to capture the motion in a waterfall surely he'd be better off at lower ISO (less sensitive sensor setting) thus needing longer exposures for a fixed aperture setting. Same goes for stopping down = smaller aperture (less light) requiring longer exposures for a fixed ISO setting.
:thinking:
Shouldn't this be the other way round Rob?
What he's saying is that with an 8x ND, it may cut light too much in which case it is easier to compensate with higher ISO than muck about with lower factor NDs.
ArthurDent
10-10-2008, 11:35
Ah I see.
scooby snacks
10-10-2008, 12:09
Thanks for the help. Just phoned up my local Jessops and they have the x8 in stock so I'll be picking it up this afternoon. I actually got a x2 the other day and ,by some freak occurence, it was unusually sunny so the x2 didn't cut much light, so just wanted to know if the x8 was going to be too dark. I'll probably get the x4 at some point(and look into the hitech ones - thanks:thumbs:) I'm just trying to curtail my camera related spending to the absolute minimum at the moment:lol:
At The Gates
10-10-2008, 17:25
Nice, those those Hi-Tech ones have a 3 x ND Grad set for £30. I assume they fit in the same Hi-Tech holders as the normal ND Hi-Tech filters?
I'm a bit confsed about thse slot in filters and holders though. How do i buy the right holder? The site says the Hi Tech 85 holder is 95mm. How will that fit on the end of a lens with a 67mm / 52mm size etc?
scooby snacks
10-10-2008, 17:56
Not sure about the Hitech ones, but with the Cokin P series you buy adaptor rings for the size of the lens you have which all have the same outside diameter to fit on the filter holder.
Yes thats right the hi tech filters are square or rectangular and slide into a filter holder that is fitted onto the front of the lens using a screw in ring adapter to fit your lens size.
There are several sizes of filter holder mine are in a cokin P sized holder.
At The Gates
10-10-2008, 18:20
Ah ok. Hmm, bit pricey, but i suppose more 'future proof'. For a grad nd filter, holder and 67mm ring it will cost £100. Think i'd rather get a circular grad ND from 7dayshop for £4.99, see how i get on lining up the wonky horizon, and maybe get a B+W circular grad nd later for £40.
scooby snacks
10-10-2008, 18:53
Had a very quick go with the x8 this evening using the fish pond at my parent house as the subject:p Possibly the smallest waterfall pictured on this forum:nuts:
Quite pleased with the result as it was a one shot special before the light was totally gone and the water flow rate is very slow.
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/5241/dpp00011wu9.th.jpg (http://img337.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dpp00011wu9.jpg)http://img337.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)
You can use the Kood or Cokin square filter holder and adaptor rings with the HiTech filters. You'll find the Kood ones from places like 7DayShop.com (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=18) a lot cheaper than the HiTech variety.
ArthurDent
10-10-2008, 19:24
Nice.
Was that your Sigma 10-20, or the kit-lens?
scooby snacks
10-10-2008, 19:47
Nice.
Was that your Sigma 10-20, or the kit-lens?
Sigma 10-20, I cropped a lot out of the original. Thats the only lens I've got the adaptor ring for (77mm by the way:thumbs:). I've only got 3 lenses at the moment, kit (58mm filter size iirc) and a Canon 50mm f/1.8 (52mm). I was intending to get Cokin adaptor rings in the aforementioned sizes today but completely forgot:doh:
ArthurDent
10-10-2008, 20:05
Guessed it might have been the siggy - way too sharp for the 18-55.
scooby snacks
10-10-2008, 20:23
Guessed it might have been the siggy - way too sharp for the 18-55.
:thumbs: The kit 18-55mm hasn't been out of my camera bag since I got the 50mm and the Sigma.
scooby snacks
15-10-2008, 18:28
I'm now looking at getting a graduated ND filter and, after looking on the Cokin, I've noticed there is a lot of choice:thinking: Can someone recommend which is the most versatile as I don't want/need to buy all of them:)
Forgot to mention, its the P series I'm looking at.
There are two main factors.
Soft/Hard.
This refers to the cut-off between the ND and the clear bit. I'd suggest getting the soft edge as it'll give you more margin for error. Hard edge is good for sunsets over the ocean etc where you really do have a precise edge to align to but present problems with uneven landscapes.
Factor.
Some are labelled as a times factor ( x2, x4 etc ) and some are labelled in logarithmic scale ( 0.3, 0.6, 0.9 etc ).
x2 & 0.3 both mean 1 stop, x8 & 0.9 both mean 3 stops.
That's it really.
So maybe an X4 ( 0.6 ) soft may be a good place to start but the factor will depend on what you're going to do with it.
RobDickinson
15-10-2008, 19:10
Theres also the hard reverse ndgrad, clear on the bottom then hard solid in the middle graduating to nothing.
Excuse my ignorance, but why do you need a filter to take such shots??? What benefit do you get over not using a filter??
At The Gates
15-10-2008, 20:14
A neutral density filter reduces the amount of light. So for waterfall shots for example, you might want to get a slow exposure to get the water smooth, but on a bright day you can't have the required shutter speed and aperture because it's too bright. So stick on an ND filter and cuts out even more stops of light, so you can use the required shutter speed for 'blurring' the water.
A graduated ND filter is as above but only half is shaded. So it's very useful for landscape shots on bright days where you want a nice blue sky and a properly exposed ground. Without the filter you'd be able to expose properly for one but not the other. So either an overblown sky and perfect ground or vice versa.
RobDickinson
15-10-2008, 20:18
Excuse my ignorance, but why do you need a filter to take such shots??? What benefit do you get over not using a filter??
Often a landscape comprises more dynamic range than the film or sensor can emcompass.
So you either over expose the sky or under expose the land. Or with a sunset expose the sunset area correctly and the rest to dark etc.
A ND filter basicaly evens out the dynamic range allowing you to shoot the whole scene in 1 exposure.
Now you can shoot 2 or more shots and merge or HDR but sometimes thats not possible or wanted.
Ah ok. Hmm, bit pricey, but i suppose more 'future proof'. For a grad nd filter, holder and 67mm ring it will cost £100. Think i'd rather get a circular grad ND from 7dayshop for £4.99, see how i get on lining up the wonky horizon, and maybe get a B+W circular grad nd later for £40.
Circular grads are pants mate...means the horizon has to be bang in the middle of your shot every time...whereas you can adjust the filter holder ones up and down.
Circular grads are pants mate...means the horizon has to be bang in the middle of your shot every time...
Which even a cursory glance at the Rule of Thirds will show you is a big no-no.
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