View Full Version : Street photographers to be stopped and quizzed say police
Anyone who 'appears to be taking photographs in a covert manner' should expect to be stopped and quizzed, warn police.
The caution came in a statement issued by Humberside Police after they seized films from photography enthusiast Steve Carroll in Hull city centre on 1 December...
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Police_issue_statement_on_covert_photography_NUJ_brand_police_action_as_nonsense_news_175462.html
Seen on a Flickr street photography group.
What a sadder and sadder world we're living in.
It's fine for the authorities to film our every move, but it seems that if WE get a camera out, we're liable to have it seized and the film taken from us.
RomerojpgX
28-01-2008, 19:43
They can stop me all they like, I aint telling them jack!
I aint breaking a law, so stuff it up their pathetic looser cop bumholes I say and go get a job and catch criminals! or cry about pay rises. Boo hoo do not take the job if you think the pay stinks.
I could go on.
I don't mind, as long as the questions aren't two hard.
"Name 5 countries beginning with T!"
etc
RomerojpgX
28-01-2008, 19:48
I cannot name one beginning with T :( I fail. I would be locked up.
I aint breaking a law, so stuff it up their pathetic looser cop bumholes I say and go get a job and catch criminals! or cry about pay rises. Boo hoo do not take the job if you think the pay stinks.
As I understand it, the dispute is largely about the fact that the police and government agree to be bound by the decision of an independent commission regarding police pay. One of the parties decided that they were going to go back on that, and it wasn't the ones likely to be spending their Friday nights pacifying drunks for a living.
Hope your line of reasoning goes down well with the officers you encounter, in any case.
Radiohead
28-01-2008, 19:49
What's the capital of Peru?
We're all terrorists now boys. I've already gone toe-to-toe with one copper in Windsor. The tool.
Radiohead
28-01-2008, 19:52
I cannot name one beginning with T :( I fail. I would be locked up.
Tanzania, Tibet, Thailand, Tasmania, Togo, Timor, Tonga, Turkey, Tunisia...
RobDickinson
28-01-2008, 19:53
Cant be long untill you have to register and licence your camera...
We all know photographers are likely central and key to all major terrorists plots.
Look, 9/11, tube bombings, Madrid etc, theres always a photographer close by.
We're all terrorists now boys. I've already gone toe-to-toe with one copper in Windsor. The tool.
Do tell!
I thought Windsor would be the last place a camera would cause suspicion - everyone has one around their neck there!
Radiohead
28-01-2008, 20:05
In Windsor for my sister-in-law's wedding in September we had a few minutes before she arrived and the guard was changing. I popped out to get a few shots and at one point I put one foot off the pavement to lean across (about 10 feet away from any guards). The next thing I know I'm shouldered by the copper and almost go over. Needless to say I wasn't impressed and confronted the copper about it. He was right in my face and I refused to back down. He then threatened to arrest me for terrorist offences. I actually laughed at him and the next thing I knew about 5 other people were by my side telling him he was way out of line and that it had been over the top. I laid my camera down and said if he had anything to arrest me for then go right ahead. He then turned and walked off.
RobDickinson
28-01-2008, 20:08
Hah, police state.
Papers , papers please!!!
I tell you, TLRs and old film cameras are becoming more and more attractive - when I use my Rollei I'm more likely to have people smile and ask questions about it than I am to have them accuse me of stealing their soul/fiddling with their daughter/bombing the embassy.
ChrisBlack
29-01-2008, 10:17
:(
Imagine how contrary it is being a copper and a photographer! I can, of course, see reasons for people in certain areas of a public place being stop and accounted if they are taking shots, especially if their shots are inclusive of CCTV, access and egress to shopping centres etc. You have to bear in mind, that this is being blown out of proportion - if a copper comes up to you, nice as pie, and says "You alright? What you up to?", then that qualifies as a stop and account, and you're entitled to a receipt of the encounter, just as you're equally entitled to just walk off without even answering one question (though that would be quite rude :lol: ).
That being said, no one should let this put them off street photography - I certainly won't let it.
Re this from Romerojpgx:
I aint breaking a law, so stuff it up their pathetic looser cop bumholes I say and go get a job and catch criminals! or cry about pay rises. Boo hoo do not take the job if you think the pay stinks.
I could go on.
Please don't pal. There's nothing wrong with your diatribe up until the word "their", then it goes down hill from there. It just smacks of ignorance, tbh. A copper could equally say "We will stop and account every photographer on the street as legislation dictates, stupid pathetic loser photographers - go out and take some proper photos! And if street photography is the only way you can make money, then do not take the job"
See how stupid and ignorant that sounds? Its okay not to like the Police, but arguments such as that are puerile at best.
/end mini tant. :)
So, the photographers of Hull need to send a very clear message to the local police. One that will be noticed by other forces around the country.
Just like the Australians did at that Melborne(?) shopping centre, have a mass rally outside the main Hull police station. Preferably with tripods.
Will it happen? Somehow I think not.
Apathetic bloody country. ;)
puddleduck
29-01-2008, 10:47
I've never been stopped in the UK apart from once by a policemen who wanted to chat about my gear :)
Been stopped in Japan twice, first outside the Imperial Palace in Tokyo (had to open my bag), and a second time where I was randomly stopped shooting cherry blossom parties (that was hairy for a bit as they seemed to think I was someone else...)
I've chatted to an officer who was wondering why I was taking this (http://www.flickr.com/photos/john_the_monkey/431745403/). It was all very pleasant, much in the nature of the interaction Chris outlines above.
I might be a bit close to all this, as my grandfather was a police officer (GMP and Cheshire) for many years, and one of the wife's cousins is currently serving with GMP. They're just folk, when it comes down to it, and copping an attitude (on either side of the interaction) really isn't necessary.
I actually come from a line of Coppers - my dad, my uncle and my grandad were all in the Force and I have a lot of respect for individual officers.
It's the nature of the announcement that worries me - to make a statement like they have rather than just pointing out that this was an individual case and should not be considered the norm.
I'm sure that most people are of the opinion that MORE beat cops would be a great thing...but please let them police like humans and not automatons. There's too many rules for both the public AND the police now and common sense seems to have been thrown out the windows.
greenguy
29-01-2008, 14:11
Anyone who 'appears to be taking photographs in a covert manner' should expect to be stopped and quizzed, warn police.
Should be ok then, i'm not particularly 'covert' with a 350D, grip and a 70-200 f/2.8 L IS :lol:
Does this mean they will be hasstling people with Sony W810i's instead?
RomerojpgX
29-01-2008, 15:40
:(
Re this from Romerojpgx:
Please don't pal. There's nothing wrong with your diatribe up until the word "their", then it goes down hill from there. It just smacks of ignorance, tbh. A copper could equally say "We will stop and account every photographer on the street as legislation dictates, stupid pathetic loser photographers - go out and take some proper photos! And if street photography is the only way you can make money, then do not take the job"
See how stupid and ignorant that sounds? Its okay not to like the Police, but arguments such as that are puerile at best.
/end mini tant. :)
Just ignore me, venting off steam I guess, and badly re-reading my babbling back again. It was indeed a ignorant comment to say. I should know better.
I like the Police by the way, hate the actual courts for not punishing the people they catch :D
Should be ok then, i'm not particularly 'covert' with a 350D, grip and a 70-200 f/2.8 L IS :lol:
Does this mean they will be hasstling people with Sony W810i's instead?
According to the article, the guy was using a film camera - Leica I think.
He wasn't raising it to his eye, which I bet was the problem.
Wonder how they would deal with my Rollei...I can't raise that to my eye!
I got stopped in London last year when I was taking some photos around the City - someone came pegging it out of a restaurant, I think it was, saying "why are you taking photos of our restaurant?"
I said "because it looks nice and I wanted a photo of it."
That seemed to satisfy her. (?)
As someone else very astutely pointed out, your every move is captured on CCTV anyway these days, so the authorities are hardly on solid ground if they start asking you why you're photographing stuff.
And in fact, according to the Data Protection Act you can ask for copies of any CCTV that has your image included. Some woman made a film using this method.
Edit : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6654971.stm
So if you were really a terrorist, you could just walk in front of the embassy and then ask for all the CCTV footage of yourself from that day. You don't even need to carry a camera!
RomerojpgX
29-01-2008, 16:21
Yup the CCTV footage request thing is great, but sadly as I have found out when you Need the footage, it gets lost, wiped etc.. a Police case close to me had to be dropped, as the evidence on the CCTV was given to the police, when they got round to checking it months later it was blank, and by the time they noticed the origanals had been wiped. Case closed, even if it was serious.
But yes CCTV does make the whole camera lurker thing even stranger, think what some freak could do with the massive powerful zooms on a CCTV is they were so inclined.
still average joe
30-01-2008, 10:24
I wonder what the responses to this topic would be if it was posted on the general discussion forum. Most folk (without a photography bent) would think it perfectly reasonable for somone taking clandestine photos to be questioned/ asked to refrain.
There's surely a difference though between someone taking shots of say a nuclear power station than John C shooting a great shot of a discarded tv or Radioheid shooting in a place where you would expect photographers?
You give PC's this power and the obnoxious, petty, jobsworth element amongst them (in my experience sadly a fair percentage) will use it just because they can - and when you politely object you'll get done for breach of the peace.
It sounds trivial, but these idiotic rules continue to chip away at our 'supposed' freedom as law-abiding individuals.
abarthman
30-01-2008, 11:56
... stuff it up their pathetic looser cop bumholes I say ...What made their bumholes looser? ;)
Vulcan101
30-01-2008, 17:52
Probably playing with their batons :suspect:
RobDickinson
31-01-2008, 02:34
Whatcha recon to the chances of being able to shoot with this lens round UK airports...
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/robdickinson/sigma_200-500.jpg
emeyedeejay
31-01-2008, 08:37
:lol:
you had me thinking I'd re-clicked the sigmas thread in error there for a second...
That really does look like a rocket launcher!
This one is sure to be called "The Bazooka" :D (EDIT: actually Bazookma!)
Whatcha recon to the chances of being able to shoot with this lens round UK airports...
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/robdickinson/sigma_200-500.jpg
Would that even fit through the x-ray scanner?
still average joe
31-01-2008, 10:06
you would get some looks at an air show too.
AndyWilson
31-01-2008, 11:14
Air Shows do tend to be a bit like a dody urinal, everybody glancing sideways to check out the size of other people's equipment...
RomerojpgX
31-01-2008, 15:56
Its like a nuke! I would expect Jack Bauer to come along and start defusing that beast!
Fozzybear
31-01-2008, 19:54
Last time I had a copper talk to me when out photographing was when taking a photo of the high street in Chelmsford with my camera on a tripod. They were very nice about it, just wandered up and the wpc asked very in a casual and friendly manner if I minded her asking what I was taking a photo of. I explained I was an amateur just taking a photo of the high street for a long-term project and she turned around, looked at the view and said in a disappointed tone "oh". I got the impression she thought something exciting was about to happen - must have been a boring day. :)
This is the shot:
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulforsdick/269302252/" title="Chelmsford High Street at Dusk III by Paul Forsdick, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/108/269302252_cb84001b21_m.jpg" width="240" height="165" alt="Chelmsford High Street at Dusk III" /></a>
AdminSpod
31-01-2008, 21:28
What's the capital of Peru?
P
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulforsdick/269302252/" title="Chelmsford High Street at Dusk III by Paul Forsdick, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/108/269302252_cb84001b21_m.jpg" width="240" height="165" alt="Chelmsford High Street at Dusk III" /></a>
I remember that photo from a while back, its a great photo.
Fozzybear
01-02-2008, 08:22
P
An old one but:
:lol: :notworthy
I remember that photo from a while back, its a great photo.
Thanks Gareth. I was really pleased with it, the light was really nice that evening. I guess the wpc could only see 'the high street' - which most people would really I guess.
That was one of my first shots with the Nikon 18-70, I walked into town with my camera kit and tripod so I could try it out on the way home after collecting it from the Royal Mail sorting office in town. It's still my most used lens and often the only lens I use.
Fozzybear
01-02-2008, 08:24
Whatcha recon to the chances of being able to shoot with this lens round UK airports...
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/robdickinson/sigma_200-500.jpg
I was thinking of buying one of these for a trip to Gaza...
I was thinking of buying one of these for a trip to Gaza...
I'd suggest a test first. One of the side streets on the South bank. The MI6 building looks good from there.
:)
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/9586/18762708if3.png
The five-week campaign asks members of the public to report any suspicious behaviour in confidence to the Anti-Terrorist Hotline.
The press ads seek to raise awareness of some of the items/activities which may be needed by, or be of use to, terrorists. It asks the public to consider whether they have seen any activity connected with them which may have made them suspicious.
Met Police Link (http://www.met.police.uk/campaigns/campaign_ct_2008.htm) which show the three posters: camera, door and mobile phone.
The poster about multiple mobiles means I am doubly screwed with my personal phone, business phone and current client's Blackberry. That and my camera will have me winging my way to Gitmo in no time
We got pulled by Police the other day. Waiting for a celeb and firing test shot, not really taking much notice of where we where pointing the camera. After we shot the celeb and left a Police car pulled us over and told us the Barclays Bank where we where had been was put on high alert as someone was across the road taking pics of it. We showed the Police are cameras and the celeb pics, luckily we had deleted all test shots so there was none with the bank in and they let us go. I don't think any of us intentionally shot the bank and probably never even pointed cameras directly at it.
Dave
It's madness - there's no law against taking pictures of a place is there?
What could they have done if you DID have pictures of the bank on there?
Doubly stupid because if I was casing a place I'd take pictures on my 5mp mobile phone and mms them to another pay as you go phone before deleting them from the first. There's not a chance they'd be able to catch you then.
AndyWilson
07-03-2008, 08:43
By the time you'd MMSed an 5Mpx photo to another phone they could have contacted all of your friends and family in person to ask them about your photographic habits, then flown a specialist in from the USA to arrest you!
Is that a Canon?
I best hand myself in now.
douglasb
07-03-2008, 10:05
Someone should start a "Photos of British Banks" flikr group.
That's the stupid thing isn't it - there are probably archival photos of most major buildings in the UK available on the internet or in local libraries anyway.
If someone wanted to firebomb Barclays, for instance, they really don't need to know much more than it's location. Or do the Cops expect some elaborate Ocean's 11 style shennanigans which require precise photographic reconnaissance?
I remember Mark Thomas made an entire series with the floor plans of MI6 as the backgrop to his stage. He got them simply by asking the local planning authority.
queeg500
07-03-2008, 11:51
Is that a Canon?
I best hand myself in now.
:lol:
KennyVader
07-03-2008, 12:21
I've got photos of every theatre in London going back years, which every few months I spend an evening wandering around and updating to take account of the current plays/shows and their advertising.
OMG I am so going to Guantanamo, they will probably think I am orchestrating a siege with poisonous gas etc in one of them :oh-hum:
I'll probably have to go on a Photography Offender's Register and be shamed for life if they catch me :(
Nah, but you're probably on register somewhere for your unusual love of show tunes :p
RomerojpgX
07-03-2008, 15:12
Who paid the cash for this stupid campaign!? The Tax payers?
Nice, cash well spent.
I can bet it cost an absolute fortune to design, create and get out there for the public to see.
I saw maybe 50 people today with cameras, any one of them look dodgy? yes, would I assume some are going to blow something up, No. Even I look dodgy with my camera out I am sure of that.
Hmm...
"Thousands of people take photographs every day. What if one of them seems odd?"
Befriend them? After all, they probably have a good deal more sense about them than the scaremongering morons who devised this fine ad.
More reports on those dangerous terrorist photographers:
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/03/31/londons-spitalfields.html
AdminSpod
31-03-2008, 10:05
If society has become so paranoid that police are worried about photographers then surely the terrorists have won? That is exactly the sort of reaction that they would want.
RomerojpgX
31-03-2008, 13:48
Mmmm Police I can understand, even PCSO's to a point.
But any old security guards taking your camera?
I at least have some respect for Police, security guards sorry to say thats a bit of a joke.
Still I wouldnt argue if I were on their property, but giving over a camera? not too sure about that.
I was told off a few weeks ago by staff in an art gallery (Baltic Newcastle). I did not mind, but I was in shock, Becuase the new manager suddenly changed the rules and told the staff to enforce it (before that cameras were allowed you see). I could tell the guy telling me this was not exactly happy to be constantly looking out for cameras.
A few weeks later the no cameras signs went up. He did not badger me, or act all high and mighty, just some nice words in my ear and a little conversation took place, I did not feel the need to run for my life and he did not ask for me to delete pics.
He even told me that I was fine to snap anything but the art to get around the new rule :D as they only object to the art, I was not their for art anyway, just the people so it was ok with me :D
Radiohead
31-03-2008, 14:36
No way would some poxy 'security' guard get his hands on my camera.
I'd have been straight on the phone to the police for assault.
Radiohead
31-03-2008, 15:12
I'd clock him with a D3
RomerojpgX
31-03-2008, 15:25
I can picture it now.
"Back up Back up, I have a looney with a camera smacking me in the head. All I tried to do was get his expensive camera from him. Backup!" :lol:
AndyWilson
31-03-2008, 16:27
I don't think anyone would survive a smack in the head with a D3!
downhillbiker
31-03-2008, 16:45
As has been mentioned, I'd just call the police if a security guard tried that. Last thing I need is a fat, failed policeman trying to enforce his own little laws...
sworrall
31-03-2008, 16:48
No way would some poxy 'security' guard get his hands on my camera.
"cold dead hands" springs to mind for me too
RomerojpgX
31-03-2008, 17:08
As has been mentioned, I'd just call the police if a security guard tried that. Last thing I need is a fat, failed policeman trying to enforce his own little laws...
:lol:
Like this PCSO I snapped last year.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/romerojpg/YourABigManButYouAreOutOfShape-1.jpg
Any establishment that tries to intimidate me as a vulnerable person will receive none of my business and the full force of every power I can summon. Many of the local businesspeople I know tend to see my photography as free advertising anyway - they get praised for what they do, I get a good snap, they might get some more customers and everyone wins.
That CSO is the future of Britain, I'm convinced of that. Along with monitoring the movements on public transport of the elderly and disabled, naturally.
Like this PCSO I snapped last year.:lol: @ the police fleece - looks home made!
:(
My dad, his brother and their dad were all cops. If any one of them had gone out in 'uniform' looking that unfit and scruffy he'd disciplined.
<a href="http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/dvf.woz/Historic/photo#5184043048775319922"><img src="http://lh3.google.co.uk/dvf.woz/R_Frr8aWAXI/AAAAAAAAAvI/QBcxp9OoE1Q/s800/Police%20Presentation.jpg" /></a>
They're the three nearest the camera.
A little different to today's black paramilitary style uniform isn't it?
Incidentally, what were the medals for?
My dad grew up respecting police officers like the ones in your photo Woz. How times change.
Incidentally, what were the medals for?
Actually, I've no idea, sorry. I'll have a look through what I've got of my grandad's and see if the medal's in there...you never know.
chiefster69
17-04-2008, 20:37
Innocent photographer or terrorist?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7351252.stm
on the front page of the bbc website
RomerojpgX
17-04-2008, 21:39
Making BBC news now then :)
and Woz, great image that Police picture, you could not get more apart than myPolice image and your family Police picture. Thats a priceless thing to own, looks so good seeing them coppers like that.
Radiohead
18-04-2008, 11:23
My dad grew up respecting police officers like the ones in your photo Woz. How times change.
Hell, I grew up respecting the police. Part of me still does but they're not helping themselves.
To balance the debate a little, my dad (nearest the camera in that picture) left the Force because he was disgusted with the corruption. I believe he was also asked to join the Masons and refused.
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