Freesat

[Faythur]

For those of us who have no interest in lining Sky's pockets for HD, is there a sizeable interest in the forthcoming Freesat from BBC/ITV? http://www.freesat.co.uk/home.php

Sounds just the ticket for me, although I don't expect there will be much in HD to start with. As I already have a cancelled Sky installation and dish in place etc it should only stand me the cost of a new box :)

Seems to be the only way forward for no ongoing subscription. Ofcom have recently confirmed that they indeed do intend to auction off additional bandwidth as it becomes available - expected to be mainly mobile phone networks and broadband suppliers etc - as they have no real committment to HD for the masses :| [extra bandwidth is needed if Freeview was to be expanded to include HD]

http://www.savefreeviewhd.com/page/savefreeviewhd?entry=ofcom_we_were_right_all

As things stand there will only ever be 4 HD channels on HD Freeview eventually - if it ever comes about at all! :oh-hum:

Any other forum members interested?

High Definition

£149.99 Argos Goodmans GFSAT200HD Black Freesat HD Digital Box. (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=28&url=http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5321588/Trail/searchtext%3EFREESAT.htm)

£149.99 Argos Humax Foxsat HD Freesat Set Top Box. (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=28&url=http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5321595/Trail/searchtext%3EFREESAT.htm)

£119.99 Argos Bush BFSAT01HD Black Freesat HD Digital Box. (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=28&url=http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5321564/Trail/searchtext%3EFREESAT.htm)

£149.99 Comet HUMAX FOXSAT-HD (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=37&url=http://www.comet.co.uk/shopcomet/product/444855/HUMAX-FOXSAT-HD)

£149.99 Comet GRUNDIG GUFSATHD (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=37&url=http://www.comet.co.uk/shopcomet/product/444332/GRUNDIG-GUFSATHD)

£149.99 Dixons Humax Foxsat-HD freesat Digital Satellite TV Receiver (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=1&url=http://www.dixons.co.uk/martprd/store/dix_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0429995406.1213039453@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccjadeeflmdhedcflgceggdhhmdfhk.0&page=Product&fm=null&sm=null&tm=null&sku=536738&category_oid=)

£149.99 Dixons Grundig GUFSATHD High Definition freesat receiver (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=1&url=http://www.dixons.co.uk/martprd/store/dix_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0429995406.1213039453@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccjadeeflmdhedcflgceggdhhmdfhk.0&page=Product&fm=null&sm=null&tm=null&sku=667237&category_oid=-34838)

£119.99 Dixons Goodmans GFSAT200H High Definition Freesat Receiver (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=1&url=http://www.dixons.co.uk/martprd/store/dix_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0429995406.1213039453@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccjadeeflmdhedcflgceggdhhmdfhk.0&page=Product&fm=null&sm=null&tm=null&sku=142563&category_oid=)

[B]Standard Definition

£69.99 Argos Goodmans GFSAT100SD Silver Freesat SD Digital Box. (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=28&url=http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5321571/Trail/searchtext%3EFREESAT.htm)

£49.99 Argos Bush BFSAT01SD Freesat SD Digital Box. (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=28&url=http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5321557/Trail/searchtext%3EFREESAT.htm)

£49.99 Comet GRUNDIG GUFSAT01 (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=37&url=http://www.comet.co.uk/shopcomet/product/444324/GRUNDIG-GUFSAT01)

£49.99 Dixons Goodmans GFSAT100S Standard Definition Freesat TV Receiver (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=1&url=http://www.dixons.co.uk/martprd/store/dix_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0429995406.1213039453@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccjadeeflmdhedcflgceggdhhmdfhk.0&page=Product&fm=null&sm=null&tm=null&sku=500227&category_oid=)

Installation

£80.00 Argos Single Freesat Installation. (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=28&url=http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/8890030/Trail/searchtext%3EFREESAT.htm)

[Spooky_uk]

As things stand there will only ever be 4 HD channels [BBC/ITV/C4 and C5] on HD Freeview eventually - if it ever comes about at all! :oh-hum:

its all you need really. never going to get every channel in HD.

Last month, broadcasters backed a new plan to reorganise the current Freeview capacity, allowing the launch of three HD channels in 2009-2010 and a fourth by 2012.

[RDJ]

My assumption from the website is that this is basically Freeview with HD options delivered by satellite. Sounds like the answer to all my TV-related prayers. Can't get Freeview where I am until 2009 and Sky is too expensive ongoing. And the analogue reception is so bad I keep literally losing BBC2 (normally during Top Gear).

Fingers are crossed :)

[Deron]

Would be perfect for me...

I have a motorised dish and HD box and pick up a lot of other free channels...

I'd even be happy with ch4 and ch5 on freesat as they're not available at the mo.

I also suspect this will put pressure on Sky's £10 a month charge as well.

Uses the same sat, so easy enough to get access to.

[ColinP]

Hmm - sounds tempting enough to drop Sky to me. Is there a list of the expected channels anywhere?

[jroadley]

Most of the stuff in our EPG is on BBC1 / BBC2 and C4 so bring it on!

[Faythur]

http://whathifi.com/television/archive/2008/02/12/news-panasonic-to-offer-freesat-ready-flatscreens.aspx

[Spooky_uk]

the PZ81? shortlisted it at first as our new tv later this year, but will end up with a seperate box now if the rumoured specs are true (want the PZ85 model)

[jester]

Is this not out next month?

[poissony]

Not sure, start date mentions Spring 2008, so it's a bit vague.

[koe_182]

hmmm any rumours as to cost of the system yet? looks like something i'd really be interested in.

[mikeyace]

this sounds too good to be true... :)


would love to get rid of $ky, far too expensive really.

It will all depend on the channels/programs that will be available for me, but I'm keen to ditch $ky.

roll on spring

Mikey :)

[Spooky_uk]

channelwise would expect all the freeview ones and the HD variations of the terrestrial channels (BBC, ITV and C4 when they launch). Maybe a few extra ones but doubt thing ssuch as Sky One etc will appear..

[poissony]

channelwise would expect all the freeview ones and the HD variations of the terrestrial channels (BBC, ITV and C4 when they launch). Maybe a few extra ones but doubt thing ssuch as Sky One etc will appear..

Not sure about all the Freeview ones. Wouldn't expect the Sky channels for a start. Also, it was my understanding that part of the reason for Freesat not being launched until spring this year was so that C4 could be on board at or soon after launch as their Sky contract is up for renewal soon. If true that may mean no Channel 5 as they recently signed a new contract with Sky.

Just checked on this, more (reliable?) info here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freesat

[JasonLVC]

I've got Freesat from Sky at present. I cancelled my sky sub and just receive the freeview channels via the satbox. I bought a second skybox off ebay and wired upto LNB and paid £20 for a Sky FreeSat card which also gives me the freeview channels.

This freesat from BBC/ITV sounds like an excellent idea and I'll happily pay £150 to upgrade my box to a HD capable one when the time comes.

[jester]

I can see $ky being prepared to throw a spoiler in somewhere if people leave in droves.

[Faythur]

Personally I couldn't care less about anything ripoff $ky - I left them about 18 months ago now and don't miss their service one iota. :razz:

So long as the new Freesat service from BBC/ITV can eventually broadcast the 'big five' channels in HD that'll do me fine ;)

[mikeyace]

Thanks,

this is what I was thinking. Probably means SKYNews for example will not be on it....

We watch a fair bit of the discovery channels, but apart from the odd bit of sport, and kids, that's it.... so I could well save my 40 plus quid a month :)

will wait to see what they actually deliver...

Mikey

channelwise would expect all the freeview ones and the HD variations of the terrestrial channels (BBC, ITV and C4 when they launch). Maybe a few extra ones but doubt thing ssuch as Sky One etc will appear..

[Spooky_uk]

we just use the normal channels for sky. stopped the sub ages ago. want to get the terrestrial HD channels though when they start(without paying sky for the privelege) so freesat is ideal. If I want HD movies I'll buy the disk (when released) and not too bothered about sports (sure some of the "crown jewels" that BBC show will ne via the HD channel in future anyway) and as for Sky One US import content etc - can't wait that long so use other means. in HD too.

[craig@rewind]

Dave won't be on it nor will UKTV History.

[scoobyood]

Dave won't be on it nor will UKTV History.

.... those UKTV channels are owned by the BBC's commercial arm. Why would they have Dave on freeview and not freesat. Dave is great but it's not worth paying for. You'll need a freeview antenna hooked up to the box as well at this rate, that's frickin ridiculous.

Looks like freesat is going to be a pain if it's not better than freeview. It should be the same with the "+1" and HD channels that sky has but can't be fit on freeview. Hell they should take the opportunity to tidy it up and put "+1" on the green button and HD on the yellow button. No more messy EPG then. BBC might provide some +1 as well then. Why the biggest 3 channels don't have +1 is an utter mystery.

[poissony]

.... those UKTV channels are owned by the BBC's commercial arm. Why would they have Dave on freeview and not freesat. Dave is great but it's not worth paying for. You'll need a freeview antenna hooked up to the box as well at this rate, that's frickin ridiculous.

Looks like freesat is going to be a pain if it's not better than freeview. It should be the same with the "+1" and HD channels that sky has but can't be fit on freeview. Hell they should take the opportunity to tidy it up and put "+1" on the green button and HD on the yellow button. No more messy EPG then. BBC might provide some +1 as well then. Why the biggest 3 channels don't have +1 is an utter mystery.

The BBC don't have +1 because of bandwidth, they may well have more bandwidth with Freesat but then there would be a difference between what they offer on Satellite and Freeview (apart from the HD channnel but that will change as analogue is switched off). Is there really a need for +1 with PVR's and Iplayer?

ITV I can't explain as they +1 for some of their channels.

I find +1 channels a waste of bandwidth and makes the EPG more "messy". I'd rather they showed alternative programming or not bother.

[Spooky_uk]

Dave won't be on it nor will UKTV History.

pretty sure all freeview channels will be on it. one of its "goals" and principles upon it getting the g0-ahead at all is to reach the 30% of the UK that terrestrial freeview cannot reach.

[poissony]

pretty sure all freeview channels will be on it. one of its "goals" and principles upon it getting the g0-ahead at all is to reach the 30% of the UK that terrestrial freeview cannot reach.

No, it's aim is to get the BBC & ITV channels to reach as many homes as possible. They have a duty from the Government to fulfil this. Other Freeview channels have nothing to do with it but will obviously sweeten the package.

[Spooky_uk]

No, it's aim is to get the BBC & ITV channels to reach as many homes as possible. They have a duty from the Government to fulfil this. Other Freeview channels have nothing to do with it but will obviously sweeten the package.

the basic 5 channels have to be there IIRC, and its just an extention of the freeview service really in disguise except via sat. I expect all + more on there but guess we'll find out sooner the time..

[Spooky_uk]

looks like Freeview gets the "terrestrial HD channels" from 2009 as well now. At last movement.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7328029.stm

[camaj]

looks like Freeview gets the "terrestrial HD channels" from 2009 as well now. At last movement.

Or at least when your region's analogue signal gets switched off. 2012 for us Londoners :(

[SadMac]

Seems that the BBC have 'confirmed' this is launching very shortly! (on the 5th of May)

http://www.astra2d.com/freesatnews.htm

[poissony]

Channel 4 is available FTA now on satellite as well as FTV, so it's likely they'll be on board for the launch.

[jester]

Cracking! Have you read the comments from the guy who beleives it will not have a choice, how will sky compete on price if freesat is subscription free?

[koe_182]

only a few weeks to rumoured launch and still no prices for the packages...hmmm..

anyone any thoughts on how much they recon the setup will cost?

[SadMac]

From £50 to £150 I believe. It depends on what box you want.

£50 I'm guessing will be a basic model and £150 will have PVR functionality.

[camaj]

From brief investigations £150 will get you a HD box with no PVR (unless they didn't mention it).

All I want to know is what HD will they have and will it be better quality than that on Sky HD?

[dennisspooner]

Cracking! Have you read the comments from the guy who beleives it will not have a choice, how will sky compete on price if freesat is subscription free?

I think Sky will compete in the same way they are now.

Freesat isnt going to be offering much more than satellite viewers can already get as FTV or FTA.

All its doing is giving a brand name to the service as so many consumers are unaware that sat viewing is not automatically viewing with a subscription.

If anything Freesat will help Sky as it should get many more sat boxes into homes and will give tasters of Sky's pay tv to many more people.

While Sky's pay service has nothing to worry about I think the exclusivity of Sky+ and Sky HD will start a slow downward trend as more companies market other boxes that do the same for free tv

[dennisspooner]

From brief investigations £150 will get you a HD box with no PVR (unless they didn't mention it).

All I want to know is what HD will they have and will it be better quality than that on Sky HD?

From the looks of Sky Premier and its new encoders Sky have already started lowering the quality of its HD channels.

If all 5 main channels have HD versions on Freesat by 2012 I think the Sky service will start to look a bad deal - the £10 monthly charge is already well overpriced and once Freesat has HD the charge will have to go

[Spooky_uk]

Argos (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=28&url=http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?storeId=10001&catalogId=1500001001&langId=-1&searchTerms=freesat&Submit=GO+%3E) have the kit listed now, no pvr's as of yet (another couple of months for them - so I'm waiting) - just SD and HD receivers by Bush and Goodmans.
Installation of dish etc (if not already got one) is £80.

[Faythur]

Interesting to see the pricing. Well spotted :thumbs:

[chrisjm]

hoping to get a HD + PVR when available and ditch £20+ a month for sky (basic channels only) :thumbs:

[allan]

From the looks of Sky Premier and its new encoders Sky have already started lowering the quality of its HD channels.

If all 5 main channels have HD versions on Freesat by 2012 I think the Sky service will start to look a bad deal - the £10 monthly charge is already well overpriced and once Freesat has HD the charge will have to go

Not necessarily, as Sky will still have more live sport and new movies than the free channels.

[Spooky_uk]

Not necessarily, as Sky will still have more live sport and new movies than the free channels.

for HD movies have HD-DVD and Bluray and for Sports - the "crown Jewels" of sports will be broadcast via it and good chance in HD as well.

[dennisspooner]

Not necessarily, as Sky will still have more live sport and new movies than the free channels.

Yes - just as they always have -but thats pay tv so it has zilch to do with Freesat.

The £10 charge for HD is a ripoff at the moment and can only be partly justified if you have movies and /or sport.

I tried the HD sub for a month but it was a waste of time.

I tried it with movies and HD last month but have just cancelled it again because not only was £27 a month far too much for what I was watching - the quality on the Sky Premiere (and perhaps even Screen 1 and 2 now) was nothing like the quality on Bluray , HD DVD and even the other HD channels on offer.

Most of my recording is from the free channels so BBC HD and C4 HD will suffice at the moment.

FXHD (due soon) isnt exactly a big attraction and the other non premium HD channels either dont show all that much in HD (Sky One) or simply replay the same old things relentlessly (Discovery).

But I doubt Sky will drop the HD charge until well into 2009 at the earliest

[The Chad]

With the launch of freesat coming up I'm thinking of dropping my sky sub now, a friend of mine uses a satcard for his pc to get the current channels and BBC HD looks pretty good on it so I think i'll go that route and get one for my htpc. As others have said, the Sky HD service doesn't seem worth it at all, at least not if you don't subscribe to the full package and I find that I'm only really watching the channels I could get on freesat anyway

[poissony]

This is apparently the EPG listing for Freesat's launch next week:

http://www.joinfreesat.co.uk/index.php/freesat-epg-listings

[allan]

I don't think there's anything that you couldn't get already, and it's missing alot from FTA channels that you could pick up if you know what you're doing. What's more concerning is that report that Hauppauge DVB-S2 receivers apparently won't work with freesat, which begs the question whether only the receivers being sold wih the freesat logo will work or not.

[The Chad]

What's more concerning is that report that Hauppauge DVB-S2 receivers apparently won't work with freesat, which begs the question whether only the receivers being sold wih the freesat logo will work or not.

What report is that? I'm thinking of getting a card for my htpc. They are FTA channels so surely they'll show up wont they?

[poissony]

What's more concerning is that report that Hauppauge DVB-S2 receivers apparently won't work with freesat, which begs the question whether only the receivers being sold wih the freesat logo will work or not.

In what way won't they work? As The Chad says, since they are FTA any DVB-S (or S2) receiver will be able to pick them up.

[allan]

Well that's what I would've thought as well. I'll try to find the link to the BBC blog where they catergorically state that the hauppauge tuners will not work. The only reason they wouldn't work would be if some form of encryption was being used but as these channels have always been FTA I can't see this suddenly changing.

Found it:

http://bbcfreesathdtvblog.blogspot.com/search/label/HAUPPAUGE%20CARDS%20NOT%20SUITABLE%20FOR%20FREESAT.

I'd take it with a pinch of salt though as it seems almost made up. Worrying if true though.

[maddogsuk]

Thats seems somewhat daft! I've looking at the Hauppage cards in preperation for this. The only thing I wouldn't expect to work would be the EPG?

[allan]

Well I don't believe it personally as most of the channels are FTA on Astra2d already.

[poissony]

Agreed, it's nonsense.

[camaj]

I believe it's a claim by Freesat because they don't have certification (which I believe they must pay for).

If they're just using the same feeds as Sky, why bother unless you want HD? If the bitrate on BBCHD is as bad as some have said it seems like it isn't Sky's fault after all.

[allan]

Apaprently Freesat will have it's own EPG etc. and interactive features, so they probably just mean those rather than the whole thing.

[poissony]

I believe it's a claim by Freesat because they don't have certification (which I believe they must pay for).

If they're just using the same feeds as Sky, why bother unless you want HD? If the bitrate on BBCHD is as bad as some have said it seems like it isn't Sky's fault after all.


If it's FTA there is nothing Freesat or anyone else can do about stopping a receiver from tuning into it. If they are talking about the EPG and related functionality then that is something seperate.

What is the issue with BBCHD's bitrate? It's currently 16MB/s. Who has said that Sky determined BBCHD's bit rate and it is consequently "Sky's fault"?

[camaj]

That seemed to be the implication since it's something Sky do with their own channels. There were complaints of BBCHD looking noticeably worse after the trial ended

[poissony]

That seemed to be the implication since it's something Sky do with their own channels. There were complaints of BBCHD looking noticeably worse after the trial ended

Nothing to do with Sky. There is nothing wrong with that bitrate either. The bitrate means little without knowledge of the encoding methods used for transmission. The bitrate is not as high as it was during the trial (nearing 20Mb/s) but the encoding "software" was changed/upgraded and that is what lead to a reduction in the the bitrate. I assume the BBC thought that a combination of a lower bitrate due to more efficient coding would not result in a percieved reduction in picture quality. Judging by those on the AVForums they were wrong. Whether this is really an issue I don't know.

[dennisspooner]

That seemed to be the implication since it's something Sky do with their own channels. There were complaints of BBCHD looking noticeably worse after the trial ended


BBC HD looks as good as ever.

Pity the Sky movie channels dont

[poissony]

ITV HD is test broadcasting at the moment so who knows it may be available for the Freesat launch. I don't think I watch anything on ITV apart from F1, I wonder if they'll broadcast that in HD?

[allan]

Hopefully, just trying to get my mediaportal tv server to pick it up at the moment.

[new]

ITV's new high definition channel is being marketed as exclusive to Freesat, confirming indications that users of Sky boxes and traditional free-to-air satellite receivers will not be able to view it.

Test transmissions for ITV HD last week were broadcast as H.264 video encapsulated within an H.222 data stream rather than an ordinary video stream. The data stream can not be seen using traditional commonly-owned equipment, though Digital Spy forum members receiving digital satellite television on their home computer were able to view it.

ITV has since confirmed that its HD service will be available only to those using Freesat receivers.

"ITV HD is only available through Freesat, so you’ll need a satellite dish and either a TV with freesat HD built in (available soon), or a Freesat HD digital box connected to an HD ready TV," the broadcaster confirmed on its website.

Freesat - which will be formally launched today - is a joint venture between the BBC and ITV, and the exclusivity of ITV will be a unique selling point.

However, Seetha Kumar, head of HDTV at BBC Vision, today confirmed the corporation's high definition channel, BBC HD, would not become "Freesat exclusive".

In a general post regarding BBC HD on the BBC Internet Blog, she wrote: "With Freesat today and Freeview in the future, the next phase promises to be just as busy (as earlier developments in HD).

"Incidentally, I'd like to squash the mounting speculation in some blogs: BBC HD will not be exclusive to Freesat. We are and will remain platform neutral."

Wow ITV HD only on Freesat, that makes it a must have for us all then:lol:

[Faythur]

But it's a nice smack in the face for Sky :D

[jroadley]

But it's a nice smack in the face for Sky :D

£20 it will be on SKY within a year of launch... are advertisers going to ignore 500,000+ SKY HD customers???

[Faythur]

are advertisers going to ignore 500,000+ SKY HD customers???

Probably....How many people with PVR's actually watch any adverts nowadays? I know I avoid them at all costs....

And do you not think the majority of folks would rather have a FREEsat service rather than pay money grabbing $ky for 'extra' content? £10 per month for an 'HD' upgrade is just laughable IMHO. I'm quite sure folks will leave $ky in their droves....

If you are serious about HD for movies etc then you should be going down the Blu-Ray/HD DVD route for the full 1080p experience - again IMHO

[poissony]

£20 it will be on SKY within a year of launch... are advertisers going to ignore 500,000+ SKY HD customers???

I don't think it's that simple. I believe the reason ITV HD will be exclusive to Freesat is that Sky HD boxes cannot cope with the interactive element. Why then have it as an interactive feature? Exclusivity may have been part of the reason but regional advertising is the main issue.

They have decided not to simulcast (as C4 HD and Sky One HD do), so how then do they provide ITV London with London adverts and ITV Central with Central specific adverts? By having their HD service via the red button it means that when the adverts come along it will revert back to the local ITV SD service and then back to HD program when the adverts finish. It's this functionality that the Sky HD box struggles with.

Whether Sky feel it is necessary to develop their box to cater for this, who knows.

[new]

Probably....How many people with PVR's actually watch any adverts nowadays? I know I avoid them at all costs....



A good point, but at the end of the day a commercial TV station makes money charging companies to advertise.
The more potential viewers they can reach means the more people can watch there shows/ads means the more money they can make.

Saying that I dont think anybody would not watch a program because its NOT in HD. I think they will watch something because they want to, and the HD is just an added bonus if you can use it.

I don't think it's that simple. I believe the reason ITV HD will be exclusive to Freesat is that Sky HD boxes cannot cope with the interactive element. Why then have it as an interactive feature? Exclusivity may have been part of the reason but regional advertising is the main issue.

They have decided not to simulcast (as C4 HD and Sky One HD do), so how then do they provide ITV London with London adverts and ITV Central with Central specific adverts? By having their HD service via the red button it means that when the adverts come along it will revert back to the local ITV SD service and then back to HD program when the adverts finish. It's this functionality that the Sky HD box struggles with.

Whether Sky feel it is necessary to develop their box to cater for this, who knows.

This "regional advertising" could be irrelevant soon, as there were reports last week that ITV was thinking about handing back its terrestrial rights as its fed up with all the restrictions that come with it, & feel its being held back from competing with Sky etc.

[Deron]

I can't see how they can stop people with sat HD boxes seeing it though.

Granted it may not have an epg, but you should be able to pick up the stream.

I've got a sat HD box, and can get interactive streams, that sky users would probably select with the red button.

Of more important news to me is E4 and more4 both went fta today as well.

Anything that pushes sky to drop that £10 HD fee is alright in my book.

ITV HD are testing and ch4 HD is due later...

[craig@rewind]

Dave won't be on it nor will UKTV History.

Just to remind everyone what I said back in February.

[kahung]

Regional advertising? Apart from a rare clip for the big garden centre, I've not really noticed many ads from local businesses on ITV. Perhaps it's just too expensive to advertise on ITV (especially primetime) that only national and global brands can afford to do so.

[poissony]

I can't see how they can stop people with sat HD boxes seeing it though.

Granted it may not have an epg, but you should be able to pick up the stream.

I've got a sat HD box, and can get interactive streams, that sky users would probably select with the red button.

Of more important news to me is E4 and more4 both went fta today as well.

Anything that pushes sky to drop that £10 HD fee is alright in my book.

ITV HD are testing and ch4 HD is due later...

As I understand it though, the issue with the interactive streams would be the wrapper (possibly H222), and how the stream was flagged, which would mean it's not compatible with boxes other than Freesat ones. Stretching my knowledge on this though, there's a few threads over at digitalspy and the avforums about it which would explain it better.

I can view the ITV HD test broadcast via a PC card can you view it on your sat HD box?

I would happily get a Sky HD box for HD Sports but I refuse to pay the £10 a month, so as you say, lets hope this hastens them dropping it.

[poissony]

Regional advertising? Apart from a rare clip for the big garden centre, I've not really noticed many ads from local businesses on ITV. Perhaps it's just too expensive to advertise on ITV (especially primetime) that only national and global brands can afford to do so.

They don't have to be for local businesses, national and global brands could just be targetting specific areas of the country for specific programs. Broadcasters need to offer this flexibility.

[jroadley]

SKY respond:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/digitaltv/a95329/sky-responds-to-freesat-launch.html


It is "difficult to see what difference Freesat makes or why the BBC needs to spend public money on it", according to Sky.

The BBC and ITV are today launching the subscription-free satellite service which they have developed and funded.

Sky - which dominates the delivery of TV via satellite in the UK - has issued comments which also question why ITV's high definition channel should be exclusive to Freesat.

Freesat is the first high-profile alternative satellite service to be available in the UK for more than a decade. Sky currently offers 18 HD channels, but ITV HD will be a unique selling point for the new rival.

Sky has questioned why the BBC needs to spend money on developing Freesat when its own subscription-free service, called Freesat from Sky, has been available since 2004.

A standard definition Freesat from Sky set-top box costs £150 including installation - which is roughly on a par with the launch prices for Freesat. A high definition Freesat from Sky box, which costs more, allows viewers to watch BBC HD and Channel 4 HD.

Sky has also confirmed it will continue to use the name Freesat from Sky, despite similarity to the new service.

"We're all for customer choice but it's difficult to see what difference Freesat makes or why the BBC needs to spend public money on it," said a Sky spokesman.

"Our own Freesat service has been available since 2004 and offers all of the BBC and ITV channels plus around 200 others."

On the subject of ITV HD, the spokesman added: "The BBC and Channel 4 already offer free HD channels on the Sky platform.

"It would be a strange decision and disappointing for viewers if ITV chooses not to make its service available to 450,000 HD-enabled households."


Also - does the other freesat stuff come with a PVR built in?

[Spooky_uk]

Just to remind everyone what I said back in February.

yet. give it time :)



and sky can take a running jump, cheeky moaning ********. what a cheek :lol:

[Faythur]

Also - does the other freesat stuff come with a PVR built in?

Only receivers available now. PVR's expected from around June/July.

[Deron]

Babies...

They have a pvr due apparently...

Not sure of specs though, but it needs to be a dual tuner otherwise sky will tear them a new one.

As I understand it though, the issue with the interactive streams would be the wrapper (possibly H222), and how the stream was flagged, which would mean it's not compatible with boxes other than Freesat ones. Stretching my knowledge on this though, there's a few threads over at digitalspy and the avforums about it which would explain it better.

I can view the ITV HD test broadcast via a PC card can you view it on your sat HD box?

I would happily get a Sky HD box for HD Sports but I refuse to pay the £10 a month, so as you say, lets hope this hastens them dropping it.

I haven't tried to get it yet...but I don't think anyone can get it.

What I'm hoping is that it's like an interactive stream that sky boxes can't get, but everyone else can.

**crosses fingers**

Wait...I think I've found it.

It's gone into my radio stations. Channel is called 10510 and there is music playing.

Will do some more playing.

[allan]

Babies...

They have a pvr due apparently...

Not sure of specs though, but it needs to be a dual tuner otherwise sky will tear them a new one.



I haven't tried to get it yet...but I don't think anyone can get it.

What I'm hoping is that it's like an interactive stream that sky boxes can't get, but everyone else can.

**crosses fingers**

Wait...I think I've found it.

It's gone into my radio stations. Channel is called 10510 and there is music playing.

Will do some more playing.

That's what my mediaportal is picking it up as as well, just trying to figure how to make it think it's a TV channel instead at the moment.

[poissony]

ITV HD is currently showing a loop of helicopter shots of the Gherkin building in London, with music.

The channels settings I have if they are of any use:

Frequency 11428 H
Symbol Rate 27500
FEC 2/3
Stream ID 2401
Video PID 3401
Audio PID 3402

I take it you both receive BBCHD ok?

[Deron]

Audio PID 3402

I take it you both receive BBCHD ok?


Yes no problem...

And Luxe HD as well.

Although I don't get an EPG for BBCHD although I do for the SD channels...

Edit I've just found another BBCHD in my radio section as well with an EPG list.

[allan]

ITV HD is currently showing a loop of helicopter shots of the Gherkin building in London, with music.

The channels settings I have if they are of any use:

Frequency 11428 H
Symbol Rate 27500
FEC 2/3
Stream ID 2401
Video PID 3401
Audio PID 3402

I take it you both receive BBCHD ok?

Yes, can view BBC HD and Luxe HD no problem. Mediaportal mentions something about sub channels when I try to start timeshifting.

[dennisspooner]

ITV HD is only planning to show a very few programmes in HD when it launches.

Even more stupid than forgetting Sky , the ITV HD material will only be accessible via red button interactive use.

I'm sure than when ITV decide to operate a full ITV HD channel it will be present on Sky HD.

One must not forget that FTA broadcasts are restricted to Astra 2D for channels showing proper programming and not just ads and music videos due to the screening rights.

Only Astra 2 D offers the restricted UK footprint acceptable for FTA broadcasts.

It has been reported that capacity on Astra 2D is near bursting so ITV may well have to negotiate a deal with an encrypted 2D channel so they can swap places to allow ITV HD on Sky

[Deron]

ITV HD is only planning to show a very few programmes in HD when it launches.

Even more stupid than forgetting Sky , the ITV HD material will only be accessible via red button interactive use.

I'm sure than when ITV decide to operate a full ITV HD channel it will be present on Sky HD.

One must not forget that FTA broadcasts are restricted to Astra 2D for channels showing proper programming and not just ads and music videos due to the screening rights.

Only Astra 2 D offers the restricted UK footprint acceptable for FTA broadcasts.

It has been reported that capacity on Astra 2D is near bursting so ITV may well have to negotiate a deal with an encrypted 2D channel so they can swap places to allow ITV HD on Sky


Freesat is an alternative to SKY...

Many people are racked off with the extra £10 charge they have to pay to enjoy SKYHD.

Therefore at the moment it's a competitor. ITV will want to see what sort of uptake there is before they'll let sky have it. Apprently SKY charge a lot for a channel to be added.

This was interesting from digitalspy...

Sky charge to have a channel number etc. They charge a ridiculous amount.

The BBC pay 3 million a year to sky for a slot on the planner, along with making sure everyone gets the right region of BBC1 - e.g. BBC1 Basingstoke or wherever.

ITV do the same.

On freesat this costs 30,000 quid per year.

Because Sky were the only satellite service, people paid the money no problems. Now there is freesat, people are going to wonder why they need to bother...

Sky might end up having to pay channels to be on their line-up, or the channels will go elsewhere... If enough people buy freesat (as in, more than a few million) Sky doesn't look that great to be on.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=23515660&postcount=33

Don't know how accurate it is...but you can see why ITV are trying to strengthen their own hand. When CH4 comes over as well, it'll be a very interesting decision.

Buying a HD box pvr for £200 or so and getting recording without any more costs...

Me, I'm in both camps. But have avoided skyHD because of that £10 charge. I already pay £10 for the 2nd sub upstairs.

I'd like to drop that if I could. A 32" freesat panny will be very interesting indeed when it comes out.

It's big brother is imminent. http://www.techradar.com/news/television/hdtv/first-look-panasonics-freesat-tv-358525

[Deron]

Freesat boxes can't access the ITV HD test at the moment either.

So I'm still confident I'll be able to get it.

I rescanned my sat box yesterday and got the proper BBCHD with EPG...

Also picked up a couple of HD sports channels that my foreign sub lets me access which was a nice bonus.

And found Ch4 which has a weird name at the moment.

[camaj]

BBC HD looks as good as ever.

That's not what people on the forums were saying very recently, and it seemed to be a consensus.

Me, I'm in both camps. But have avoided skyHD because of that £10 charge. I already pay £10 for the 2nd sub upstairs.

As someone expained to me it's £10 per box! I'd probably go for it if it were £10 for all boxes.

More and more I'm questioning the value of Sky. If it weren't for premiership footie I don't think I'd bother. I do watch some of the films from time to time but I never seem to have the time and I'd rather spend £20 pm on Blu-ray than Sky Movies. Watching Sky HD might be tempting, but there's not much on ATM. Sky + is very handy, if I didn't have it I'd never watch a thing

The great thing about Freesat is it's genuine competition. Having ITVHD as an exclusive channel forces Sky to compete. The reason cable hasn't been competitive is they simply act as a redistributer for Sky. No one has a compelling reason to pick cable, usually it's only to avoid having a dish or they have multiple services from Virgin.

[Alan b]

I think it is great that Sky have got some competition in this market but couldn't they come up with a different name.

[dennisspooner]

Freesat is an alternative to SKY...

Many people are racked off with the extra £10 charge they have to pay to enjoy SKYHD.

Therefore at the moment it's a competitor. ITV will want to see what sort of uptake there is before they'll let sky have it. Apprently SKY charge a lot for a channel to be added.

This was interesting from digitalspy...



http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=23515660&postcount=33

Don't know how accurate it is...but you can see why ITV are trying to strengthen their own hand. When CH4 comes over as well, it'll be a very interesting decision.

Buying a HD box pvr for £200 or so and getting recording without any more costs...

Me, I'm in both camps. But have avoided skyHD because of that £10 charge. I already pay £10 for the 2nd sub upstairs.

I'd like to drop that if I could. A 32" freesat panny will be very interesting indeed when it comes out.

It's big brother is imminent. http://www.techradar.com/news/television/hdtv/first-look-panasonics-freesat-tv-358525

I bought my Sky HD box new from Ebay.

I dont pay £10 to Sky for the HD.

I still get more on my HD box than Freesat viewers get with C4HD for a start ,although I believe that is on its way.

But you dont have to pay £10 to Sky for the free HD channels.

[Deron]

I bought my Sky HD box new from Ebay.

I dont pay £10 to Sky for the HD.

I still get more on my HD box than Freesat viewers get with C4HD for a start ,although I believe that is on its way.

But you dont have to pay £10 to Sky for the free HD channels.

You do if you want to record them, which is why the pvr is widely anticipated. (needs to be dual tuner to compete -imo)

[dennisspooner]

That's not what people on the forums were saying very recently, and it seemed to be a consensus.



As someone expained to me it's £10 per box! I'd probably go for it if it were £10 for all boxes.

More and more I'm questioning the value of Sky. If it weren't for premiership footie I don't think I'd bother. I do watch some of the films from time to time but I never seem to have the time and I'd rather spend £20 pm on Blu-ray than Sky Movies. Watching Sky HD might be tempting, but there's not much on ATM. Sky + is very handy, if I didn't have it I'd never watch a thing

The great thing about Freesat is it's genuine competition. Having ITVHD as an exclusive channel forces Sky to compete. The reason cable hasn't been competitive is they simply act as a redistributer for Sky. No one has a compelling reason to pick cable, usually it's only to avoid having a dish or they have multiple services from Virgin.

I dont think Sky will be worrying about ITV HD for a few reasons.

1) ITV as a channel shows mostly rubbish.

2)The HD output is going to be even less than BBC HD offer at the moment.

3) Being accessible via the red button is a bit irritating anyway.

One thing that cable offers that no satellite service will offer is the VOD library of thousands of hours of tv shows and films.

Sky's Anytime service is a bit of a joke compared to Virgin's VOD.

The catchup and TV Choice services are free with the XL package so offer better value than satellite ,depending on what you want to watch.

Instead of the BBC and ITV misleading people into believing they need a Freesat box to view Freesat - they should be making it clear that you can end your Sky subs right now (after minimum term of course) and become a Freesat viewer with your Sky box.

The only thing missing would be ITV HD for what its worth.

[dennisspooner]

You do if you want to record them, which is why the pvr is widely anticipated. (needs to be dual tuner to compete -imo)

If you have a current Sky subscription it costs nothing extra to view and record the BBC/C4 HD channels after the purchase of the box

If the Freesat PVR isnt at least 2 tuners it wont be worth a toss

[Spooky_uk]

well definatley going for it once the new plasma is in the bag. not paying sky a penny for anything again, I saw the light a few years ago with that malarky. ANd Virgin are just as bad :)

[Deron]

well definatley going for it once the new plasma is in the bag. not paying sky a penny for anything again, I saw the light a few years ago with that malarky. ANd Virgin are just as bad :)

What new plasma?

The newer ones (panny) at least are building freesat into certain models...

[Sandeep C.]

One thing that cable offers that no satellite service will offer is the VOD library of thousands of hours of tv shows and films.

Sky's Anytime service is a bit of a joke compared to Virgin's VOD.

The catchup and TV Choice services are free with the XL package so offer better value than satellite ,depending on what you want to watch.

Couldn't agree more. At home, we've got VOD and it's superb. Full seasons of Lost in HD. New material going up all the time, far superior than Sky's HD service.

[poissony]

Well that depends on what you want from a HD service. If you want live sport in HD then Sky's service is far superior, if you want to watch the latest episodes of say, Lost, then Sky's service is again superior. If you prefer to have a catalogue of HD ready available on demand then Virgin is the best choice.

[jroadley]

Do you really want to spend your hard earned money on a TV station that has just been fined £5m

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7373131.stm

They are useless :mad:

[Alan b]

And by the sounds of it they were lucky the fine was not higher, much higher and reading what programs were involved and what actually occurred.

[Deron]

Do you really want to spend your hard earned money on a TV station that has just been fined £5m

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7373131.stm

They are useless :mad:


I think you may find that Sky own about 18% of ITV...:nuts:

Think they bought it to stop them merging with Virgin.

All very incestuous.:nuts:

[MaleStrom]

Maybe just me, but really bugged that the Freesat boxes don't actually come with a dish! I want to put the thing up myself, and I'm buggered if I want to pay £80 to have some trained chimp drink tea whilst regurgitating articles from that days Sun!
Obviously, I realise that you can get a dish fairly easily off ebay etc, but really should come with it.

[Spooky_uk]

What new plasma?

The newer ones (panny) at least are building freesat into certain models...

the 46pz85 for me, waiting until the Freesat HD PVR's are out - no sense in getting a receiver only, so the PZ81 is a no go for me too.

[dennisspooner]

Maybe just me, but really bugged that the Freesat boxes don't actually come with a dish! I want to put the thing up myself, and I'm buggered if I want to pay £80 to have some trained chimp drink tea whilst regurgitating articles from that days Sun!
Obviously, I realise that you can get a dish fairly easily off ebay etc, but really should come with it.

I think they are , quite sensibly keeping the prices down as they know that a high proportion of Freesat viewers will already have Sky dishes.

I wonder how long it will be before we see press and tv stories about the public being conned into buying Freesat boxes when they have a perfectly good Sky box where the sub has run out that can be used to see everything and more on Freesat

[Spooky_uk]

I wonder how long it will be before we see press and tv stories about the public being conned into buying Freesat boxes when they have a perfectly good Sky box where the sub has run out that can be used to see everything and more on Freesat

Probably as soon as you tip them off about it ;)

[MaleStrom]

I think they are , quite sensibly keeping the prices down as they know that a high proportion of Freesat viewers will already have Sky dishes.

I wonder how long it will be before we see press and tv stories about the public being conned into buying Freesat boxes when they have a perfectly good Sky box where the sub has run out that can be used to see everything and more on Freesat

I could understand that, but when you can buy a dish on ebay for about £6, then you'd have to consider that minimal cost in order to get the full package.

[warney]

I was wondering !!!! (Always dangerous !). I currently have a sky+ and regular sky (just for freeview) into the same room and wondered if I replaced the regular sky box with a HD Freesat box would that work ?

I was wondering if I could use the same cables that comes from the lnb into regualr sky box for the freesat HD ? Much cheaper way to get HD that way. Can't get away from sky at the moment as I have broadband !

[Deron]

I was wondering !!!! (Always dangerous !). I currently have a sky+ and regular sky (just for freeview) into the same room and wondered if I replaced the regular sky box with a HD Freesat box would that work ?

I was wondering if I could use the same cables that comes from the lnb into regualr sky box for the freesat HD ? Much cheaper way to get HD that way. Can't get away from sky at the moment as I have broadband !

Yes it would work...

Simply unscrew the cable from the sky box and screw it into the freesat box.

Job done.

You can use component or hdmi to link it to your HD screen/projector.

I'm still not sure what I'm going to do. Missus and kids are the reason I've still got Sky multiroom. Best option would probably be to get a Sky HD box in my lounge if I want HD and manually tune in ITV HD if possible.

I'll probably leave it be for a while, as I have my motorised dish and HD sat box in the games room. That will get me all the freesat channels anyway...

Kids and missus don't care about HD.

[warney]

Thanks Deron, might be the way to go once they release a PVR HD !!!

[MaleStrom]

I can't understand why they don't incorporate a freeview tuner into the freesat boxes (and combine them into a single epg) - that way you'd get all the channels available.

[dennisspooner]

I could understand that, but when you can buy a dish on ebay for about £6, then you'd have to consider that minimal cost in order to get the full package.

That £6 isnt much but with postage and install its a lot more.

This way its left to consumers to either arrange their own install or buy it instore with the box.

But buying the box on its own is another + point over Sky as most stores wont allow you to buy Sky+ or other boxes without arranging an install too.

Its early days so I'm sure before long there will be box&dish packages to buy once the retailers see whether there are enough buyers who need the full kit

[Deron]

I can't understand why they don't incorporate a freeview tuner into the freesat boxes (and combine them into a single epg) - that way you'd get all the channels available.

Well Technomate do a box that does (TM6900) and so do Darkbox (SUPER DarkBox Rev 2008 HD combo). But they're in separate epg's...combining them would cause problems I think.

But these are a lot more powerful and will also take subscription cards and cams if you wanted to retain your sky.

Only trouble is it's not as user friendly as a sky or freesat and is more for the enthusiast (expert).

I like the idea of the freesat boxes having 2 modes...a maintained user friendly epg mode and a hidden mode for experts with more advanced options that supports motorised dishes.

[Deron]

ITV HD showed the champs league final last night...

Pics here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/84313783@N00/

[poissony]

Yeah that's how I watched the final, it's still a test channel and there were some problems with the sound but the picture of the actual match (not the studio footage or their own cameras at the stadium) was good. Those who compared it to SkyHD said Sky's picture was better but I was more than happy with ITV HD's picture shame about the commentary though.

Wonder if they'll show the Monaco Grand Prix this weekend in HD?

[Deron]

Yeah that's how I watched the final, it's still a test channel and there were some problems with the sound but the picture of the actual match (not the studio footage or their own cameras at the stadium) was good. Those who compared it to SkyHD said Sky's picture was better but I was more than happy with ITV HD's picture shame about the commentary though.

Wonder if they'll show the Monaco Grand Prix this weekend in HD?


F1 have a HD cinema feed which is fta on a foreign satellite, so the facility is there for them.

I watched the last one and it looked lovely...

[allan]

The ITV HD feed looked a bit poorly compressed, but was still 100x times better than the picture on ITV1.

[PockyMonster]

Nice of them to add another DOG when there's already up during the match. Can't they just amend the scoreboard graphic a bit?

[LightStorm]

Quick question...

Are you folks running your Freesat HD systems off SKY dishes? I would really like to jump in with one despite the fact that none of the major retailers seem to have them in stock!

A one off payment to get the most from my licence fee, in HD? That's the one for me!

[jester]

I think Comet (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=37) have them, at least in Hull...

[MaleStrom]

Quick question...

Are you folks running your Freesat HD systems off SKY dishes? I would really like to jump in with one despite the fact that none of the major retailers seem to have them in stock!

A one off payment to get the most from my licence fee, in HD? That's the one for me!

Not got it yet, but will be as soon as a PVR version comes out. However, yes you can run it off your standard SKY dish (as it uses the same satelite Astra 28oEast).

Argos (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=28) appear to be the best place to get them in London, but also available at Currys (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=5) , Comet (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=37) ,Dixons (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=1) and John Lewis (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=57)

[dennisspooner]

Quick question...

Are you folks running your Freesat HD systems off SKY dishes? I would really like to jump in with one despite the fact that none of the major retailers seem to have them in stock!

A one off payment to get the most from my licence fee, in HD? That's the one for me!

Until the PVR comes out one wonders why you would want to replace a Sky box with a Freesat box.

The Sky box gets far more channels than Freesat offers

If you want HD it may be worth waiting for the PVR.

The Freesat HD boxes cannot offer C4HD at the moment and apparently Luxe tv is not there either except on the Humax box.

If you are waiting for ITV HD then I wouldnt worry as there is going to be very little output from them and all only accessible via the red button for some time until they can find space on Astra 2D where they can broadcast FTA .

At the moment they are stuck on Eurobird which is receivable easily in Europe and so makes it impossible for ITV HD to be FTA in the standard format

[Nick_J007]

Instead of the BBC and ITV misleading people into believing they need a Freesat box to view Freesat - they should be making it clear that you can end your Sky subs right now (after minimum term of course) and become a Freesat viewer with your Sky box.

The only thing missing would be ITV HD for what its worth.


REALLY?

I mean if that's right can I as you say cancel my subscription which is a totally basic package at £21.00 tomorrow (had it for years) and then use all my existing kit to receive freesat?

Freesat has free HD material right? Will I then get this as a result? I have a nice shiny HD plasma waiting for some HD broadcasts.

Hope you can clarify for me.

Nick

[allan]

You'll be able to get BBC HD and Luxe TV for free currently, but obviously you'll need a sky hd box to do it.

[Deron]

Some of the Humax freesat HD box owners got a nasty shock when a software update switched off hidef over component...

Due to protection issues...apparently the rumours are sky will be doing the same thing in the future. They've already phased out component in the new boxes.

[MaleStrom]

REALLY?

I mean if that's right can I as you say cancel my subscription which is a totally basic package at £21.00 tomorrow (had it for years) and then use all my existing kit to receive freesat?

Freesat has free HD material right? Will I then get this as a result? I have a nice shiny HD plasma waiting for some HD broadcasts.

Hope you can clarify for me.

Nick

Only if your Sky box is the HD variant, otherwise you'll just get similar channels to freeview.

Freesat is basically the EPG.

[dennisspooner]

REALLY?

I mean if that's right can I as you say cancel my subscription which is a totally basic package at £21.00 tomorrow (had it for years) and then use all my existing kit to receive freesat?

Freesat has free HD material right? Will I then get this as a result? I have a nice shiny HD plasma waiting for some HD broadcasts.

Hope you can clarify for me.

Nick

Obviously you would need the Sky HD box to view HD just as you would need the Freesat HD box to view it.

At the moment a subscription free Sky HD box will give you BBC HD ,Luxe HD and C4 HD.(C4 HD requires a viewing card for the moment but no sub- it should be FTA instead of FTV later this year)

A Freesat HD box will give you BBC HD only - although non Freesat FTA sat boxes should get Luxe too.

But a sub free standard Sky (or Sky+) box will allow you to watch all the Freesat channels.

Whether the lack of the Freesat EPG or the possible lack of some red dot stuff is important enough to shell out for another box is up to you

That may change later this year when the Freesat PVR arrives.
Unless Sky end the £10 a month Sky+ sub by forcing a subscription to use the recording features then the Freesat PVR could be worth getting

[Spooky_uk]

for people that do not want to pay Sky for subscription channels then it is a very attractive propostion. You fail to mention that by the end of the year of early next at the latest C4HD will also be available.



Although some people will not accept it :suspect: Sky is not the be all and end all, and now freesat has finally arrived something that may break its monopoly (subscription channels aside)

[dennisspooner]

for people that do not want to pay Sky for subscription channels then it is a very attractive propostion. You fail to mention that by the end of the year of early next at the latest C4HD will also be available.



Although some people will not accept it :suspect: Sky is not the be all and end all, and now freesat has finally arrived something that may break its monopoly (subscription channels aside)
"C4 HD requires a viewing card for the moment but no sub- it should be FTA instead of FTV later this year":shrug: (from my previous post)

Is that not clear enough for you then?

Nothing will break Sky's monopoly on pay tv but you seem to be just another anti Sky moaner who cant read beyond the end of their nose.

If you look back at my posts you will see I am in favour of Freesat but I wish they would stop misleading people into thinking they cant use a sub free Sky box to view everything and more thats on Freesat

There are so many punters out there who think because they dont pay Sky a sub that their Sky box is of no further use.

At the moment its certainly a better option than a Freesat box especially as it wont cost a thing

[MaleStrom]

"C4 HD requires a viewing card for the moment but no sub- it should be FTA instead of FTV later this year":shrug: (from my previous post)

Is that not clear enough for you then?

Nothing will break Sky's monopoly on pay tv but you seem to be just another anti Sky moaner who cant read beyond the end of their nose.

If you look back at my posts you will see I am in favour of Freesat but I wish they would stop misleading people into thinking they cant use a sub free Sky box to view everything and more thats on Freesat

There are so many punters out there who think because they dont pay Sky a sub that their Sky box is of no further use.

At the moment its certainly a better option than a Freesat box especially as it wont cost a thing

Won't cost a thing.......as long as you previously had SkyHD installed! This would be great if I was coming to the end of a SkyHD sub, but seeing as I don't even have a dish, I think it makes this rather competetive when seeking HD programing.

Because they're a trust, I believe the BBC aren't allowed to draw people away from other (commercial) providers, but instead have to rely on being able to pursuade that they are better (or at least competetive).

BTW, does Sky have ITV-HD?

[Retronana]

BTW, does Sky have ITV-HD?

Nope, not at the moment, those early to SKY Digital will remember ITV was exclusive to the On Digital, that didn't last that long ;)

[dennisspooner]

Won't cost a thing.......as long as you previously had SkyHD installed! This would be great if I was coming to the end of a SkyHD sub, but seeing as I don't even have a dish, I think it makes this rather competetive when seeking HD programing.

Because they're a trust, I believe the BBC aren't allowed to draw people away from other (commercial) providers, but instead have to rely on being able to pursuade that they are better (or at least competetive).

BTW, does Sky have ITV-HD?

You are clutching at straws here.

My posts relate to misleading info saying that if you want to view Freesat you need a Freesat box.

Obviously if you already have a Sky box its untrue that you need to buy another box.

Obviously if you have no equipment at all then you may aswell go Freesat.

Sky dont have ITV HD - but then neither does Freesat because there is no channel as yet.

ITV are doing tests for a limited amount of HD programming and these tests are also unavailable on Freesat boxes.

Due to lack of space on Astra 2D ITV are being forced to limit HD viewing to the red button- but this service is not officially available yet.

I have no doubt that once ITV HD is a full time channel - whenever that may be- it will be on Sky aswell as Freesat.

The only way ITV could prevent it from being viewed via Sky boxes would be to deliberately alter the technical parameters to make it difficult to receive- which seems an unlikely thing for ITV to do when the only purpose would be to deny their channel an additional half a million viewers

[Nick_J007]

Well I would change to Freesat tomorrow (I'd need/want the HD ability which my current Sky box does not have) but my 9 yr. old will be most distressed to loose Nickelodeon, & Disney as these are all she watches...her viewing is as important as mine (she probably watches more than me anyway).

Anyone know if these might be coming to Freesat? If so and later on, I might just hang on for the PVR version and hope these kids channels are looking more enticing and included.

Nick

[allan]

Only time will tell. If freesat gets enough takers then it might threaten Sky so channels might either jump ship or become free via Sky (which they would be anyway if they became available via freesat).

[Spooky_uk]

"C4 HD requires a viewing card for the moment but no sub- it should be FTA instead of FTV later this year":shrug: (from my previous post)

Nothing will break Sky's monopoly on pay tv but you seem to be just another anti Sky moaner who cant read beyond the end of their nose.
There are so many punters out there who think because they dont pay Sky a sub that their Sky box is of no further use.

At the moment its certainly a better option than a Freesat box especially as it wont cost a thing

you really do need to get over yourself. Ans stop the sales pitch for sky while you are it - they have a sales and marketting dept already ;)
I was a sky subscriber for years, and still utilise a sky+ box right now (no sub so not even good for watching own region BBC1 and ITV :lol:) until a freesat pvr is available then its going :thumbs:

[jroadley]

Reports on other forums that Humax boxes are being recalled? Anyone care to comment?

[The Bear]

Just been looking at these HD boxes to get BBC/ITV HD channels (I don't have Sky) but have a couple of questions as I have only just started reading about them. Apologies if they have been answered before:


Is the upscaling any good, and I'm assuming they upscale the SD broadcasts?

What is an LNB?

Do they work well with Tivo? (this is a must)

Can you upgrade the firmware through the LAN ports or are they just for interactive services?

When does ITV HD become available?

Is Channel 5 completely unavailable? If so for how long?

Is there a list of programmes that will be HD on each of BBC/ITV/C4? I'm mainly interested in the sport like Football and F1 on ITV, and then other stuff on BBC like Neighbours/Jonathon Ross/Later with Jools Holland, etc

Though If there's not much content available on the HD channels I want I may wait until next year.

[dennisspooner]

you really do need to get over yourself. Ans stop the sales pitch for sky while you are it - they have a sales and marketting dept already ;)
I was a sky subscriber for years, and still utilise a sky+ box right now (no sub so not even good for watching own region BBC1 and ITV :lol:) until a freesat pvr is available then its going :thumbs:


It really is quite sad when someone disagrees with your POV and they trot out the old "Do you work for Sky" or other similar rubbish.

I was merely correcting misinformation .

Such as your own saying that you cant watch local BBC or ITV without a sub.
If you have no sub or even no card you will get BBC1 and ITV1 London on 101 and 103.
If you have a card with no sub this will put your local regions on those channels- but of course you cant use Sky+ recording with no sub

All other BBC1 regions are listed on the EPG - and your local ITV can be added via "other channels" but wont appear on the EPG at the moment

I'm not sure if I've posted everything on here that I posted on another site but I too am subscribing to Sky purely for the use of Sky+ and once the Freesat PVR arrives I may well get one if Sky take too long allowing us to use the recording features without a sub.

However the prices for the Freesat HD PVR that seem to be hinting at £300 make it too expensive to be a success.

I only use my HD box to record free channels - less than 1% of my recording is done from pay channels - so your appraisal that I am pro Sky is completely wrong.

There are many who are either 100% Freesat or 100% Sky and dont seem to be able to post anything factual that may be bad for their own personal favourite.

As I have a motorised dish ,a Freeview PVR ,a Virgin box and Sky HD I am able to compare unlike others who witter on with nothing bar stories to back up their opinions

[dennisspooner]

Well I would change to Freesat tomorrow (I'd need/want the HD ability which my current Sky box does not have) but my 9 yr. old will be most distressed to loose Nickelodeon, & Disney as these are all she watches...her viewing is as important as mine (she probably watches more than me anyway).

Anyone know if these might be coming to Freesat? If so and later on, I might just hang on for the PVR version and hope these kids channels are looking more enticing and included.

Nick

I have no doubt that long term Freesat will be a success and that some channels that are currently subscription will switch to FTA.

Film Four and E4 did it (but they are on Freeview too)and others will follow but realistically I would say you are looking at 2010 before Freesat penetration is significant enough to make it pay

[dennisspooner]

Just been looking at these HD boxes to get BBC/ITV HD channels (I don't have Sky) but have a couple of questions as I have only just started reading about them. Apologies if they have been answered before:


Is the upscaling any good, and I'm assuming they upscale the SD broadcasts?The upscaling is excellent from Sky HD - whether a Freesat box does a better job is down to the ability of your tv and its upscaling.
My HD DVD player ,PS3 and Sky HD all upscale better than my Panasonic tv

What is an LNB?Its the device that sits at the end of the dish and sends the signal to your receiver

Do they work well with Tivo? (this is a must)Tivo is old technology and what is the point of using HD gear with it

Can you upgrade the firmware through the LAN ports or are they just for interactive services?Most sat boxes receive software upgrades over the air but most should also be upgradeable via the net

When does ITV HD become available?How long is a piece of string.One things for sure - when it does become available via the red button Tivo will as much use for recording it as a VCR

Is Channel 5 completely unavailable? If so for how long?FIVE's encryption contract with Sky ends late this year (or early next year) so a FTA version of FIVE will be available at some point - whether the offshoot channels will be there at the same time is currently unclear

Is there a list of programmes that will be HD on each of BBC/ITV/C4? I'm mainly interested in the sport like Football and F1 on ITV, and then other stuff on BBC like Neighbours/Jonathon Ross/Later with Jools Holland, etcBBC HD is listed in the Radio Times and all programmes in HD are also indicated in the normal listings - cant speak for other mags

Though If there's not much content available on the HD channels I want I may wait until next year.BBC HD shows only 4-5 hours a day but its Wimbledon and Olympics coverage should be good - C4HD shows a few programmes but mostly films in HD

Answers in bold

[The Bear]

Thanks Dennis.

I wasn't sure whether my Tivo would be able to record HD material at all, or at a decent enough bitrate/resolution which is why I put the question in there. And you're right, red button switching to HD would be useless.

[Nick_J007]

Is it at all possible to have both a Freesat box AND a Sky box running off the one input? Maybe a splitter? I expect you can only watch one at a time anyway, but the free HD material must be worth it alone.

Also, (thinking of my daughter again) should I cancel with Sky, but continue to use their box, will I then be able to view ONLY the channels as listed on Freesat's web site? i.e. no Nickleodeon and Disney.

If someone could clarify that for me I would be very pleased :)

Nick

[Deron]

Is it at all possible to have both a Freesat box AND a Sky box running off the one input? Maybe a splitter? I expect you can only watch one at a time anyway, but the free HD material must be worth it alone.

Also, (thinking of my daughter again) should I cancel with Sky, but continue to use their box, will I then be able to view ONLY the channels as listed on Freesat's web site? i.e. no Nickleodeon and Disney.

If someone could clarify that for me I would be very pleased :)

Nick


I think if you want both, then the 3rd party sat boxes will be the route.

They have common interface slots, so that in conjunction with a valid viewing card in a cam you can get everything.

Never looked into it, so don't know the ins and outs of it...

[jester]

Well I was hpoing for a choice of freesat boxes readily available and a nice easy solution to an apparent lack of HD availabilty but I am more confused than ever. I really think thay have bungled the "launch" of somethining I was really looking forward to.

I am more confused than ever! :help:

I have a sat dish on the side on my existing and new house and would very much like to plug in a set-top box and get some lovely bbc / itv hd broadcasts. What am I best off buying then?

Can I buy a 2nd hand Skyhd box off the bay? Do I need a viewing card? Can I still record bbc hd for free?

Would I be better off buying a 3rd party box from the likes of Maplins? do they record?

Or wait for the freesat situation to resolve itself? Does anyone know why its a debacle?

[Spooky_uk]

I was merely correcting misinformation .

Such as your own saying that you cant watch local BBC or ITV without a sub.
If you have no sub or even no card you will get BBC1 and ITV1 London on 101 and 103.
If you have a card with no sub this will put your local regions on those channels- but of course you cant use Sky+ recording with no sub

All other BBC1 regions are listed on the EPG - and your local ITV can be added via "other channels" but wont appear on the EPG at the moment

dennis,dennis,dennis WRONG WRONG WRONG. - I have a card in my sky+ and no sub. We get London BBC1 and Central ITV on 101 and 103. I am aware of the other channels solution but who wants to **** about faffing when you just want 101 ? I just press a button to the Freeview tuner on the TV and hey presto. Solved :)

So if you know everything there is to know please explain those points then which are not misinformation but very much fact. :) cheers

[dennisspooner]

dennis,dennis,dennis WRONG WRONG WRONG. - I have a card in my sky+ and no sub. We get London BBC1 and Central ITV on 101 and 103. I am aware of the other channels solution but who wants to **** about faffing when you just want 101 ? I just press a button to the Freeview tuner on the TV and hey presto. Solved :)

So if you know everything there is to know please explain those points then which are not misinformation but very much fact. :) cheers

Spooky Spooky Spooky I am right right right.

If your viewing card is a legit one on the Sky database then it will act as a Freesat (from Sky) card .

The fact that you have Central on 103 shows that your regions ARE being selected via the postcode assigned to the viewing card.

However - there are numerous reports of viewers being assigned different regions to the one they would receive via their aerial.

Many viewers in borderline areas get alternate regions .

I've not heard of anyone following up but it was reported that calling Sky is a possible solution to getting the wrong region.

However - it is ITV who ultimately decide which region you get and if they want your postcode to receive Central - so be it.

When ITV first appeared on Sky nearly everyone had 2 ITV regions- one on 103 and another or sometimes even 2 others in the high up numbers- and the one on 103 wasnt always the one they wanted.

A few years back things stabilised so you now have London ITV on 993 for everyone outside London - apparently its the only ITV that carries Audio Description - which is why the extra C4 is on 994.

If you remove your card and reboot you will get London on 103 - as you get Central thats whats intended and if you want to change it then contact Sky who will either tell you its a mistake or thats the region for your postcode.

IIRC there are NOT the same number of BBC Regions as there are for ITV so perhaps the BBC believe London is more appropriate than Midlands .

Assuming you want London ITV - its there already - or didnt you know that?:shrug:

Wherabouts are you?

[dennisspooner]

Is it at all possible to have both a Freesat box AND a Sky box running off the one input? Maybe a splitter? I expect you can only watch one at a time anyway, but the free HD material must be worth it alone.

Also, (thinking of my daughter again) should I cancel with Sky, but continue to use their box, will I then be able to view ONLY the channels as listed on Freesat's web site? i.e. no Nickleodeon and Disney.

If someone could clarify that for me I would be very pleased :)

Nick

Sky+ is supplied as standard with a Quad LNB that has 4 outputs so that a multiroom install can run off it.

Assuming you either have one or go and get one you can then run 2 outputs to a Sky PVR and the other 2 to a Freesat PVR - this will allow you to watch one channel and record another (or record 2) on both boxes.

Of course separate Scart connections or HDMI connections will allow viewing of either box when the other is recording.

The Quad LNB removes the need for the old fashioned splitter which brought its own problems that would be a pain when using one or more PVR's.

Of course you need 4 cable runs (or just 2 if you dont want a PVR for either) so the install could be awkward depending on the location of the boxes

[jroadley]

Just to confirm, those with the Humax will be able to view the Euro 2008 ITV games in HD via the Red Button

Linky (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/digitaltv/a97337/itv-hd-to-formally-launch-for-euro-2008.html)


ITV has confirmed its first ever high definition broadcast intended for public consumption will be its coverage of Portugal versus Turkey on the first day of Euro 2008.

Freesat viewers will be able to access the HD stream by pressing the red button while watching ITV1 during the broadcast from 7.30pm on Saturday. The service will not be available on Freeview, Sky, or Virgin Media digital cable.

Coverage of Euro 2008 matches on Monday and June 10, 11, 12 and 13 will also be available in HD, the broadcaster said today.

ITV will become the third public service broadcaster in the UK to publicly launch a HD service, following BBC HD and Channel 4 HD.

The HD broadcasts are intended to be exclusive to Freesat, the subscription-free satellite service jointly-backed by ITV, although some traditional free-to-air satellite receiver equipment will be able to display the broadcasts if specifically configured.

ITV said it will from now on inform the media and listings providers which broadcasts will be available in HD and "press the red button" alert messages are expected to be used on ITV1.

In a statement today ITV said the programmes "will be available in HD on Freesat only".

[Deron]

Sweet...

Most 3rd party receivers can receive this as well...

Sky HD box will not be able to show this at all.

BBCHD are oviously showing the other half which Sky users will have access too.

'Bout bloody time we had it all in HD.

[LouBarlow]

Question - is there any great difference between the different boxes? The Bush is like £40 cheaper. Is that because it is Bush? :lol:

I really don't want the Bush in my home.

[LouBarlow]

Got the Goodmans in the end. Same price as the Bush in Currys. BBC HD is :luv:

Roll on the footie!

[Celtic]

real question is - which FREESAT 'HD' box should I buy? If I pay £150 fom Argos (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=28), Comet (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=37), Currys (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=5) etc - who installs it - me???? I already have an old sky dish from a few years ago - will this do ????

[megatron]

Got the Goodmans in the end. Same price as the Bush in Currys. BBC HD is :luv:

Roll on the footie!

You prefer a goodman to the bush eh?:n0rty:

[LouBarlow]

You prefer a goodman to the bush eh?:n0rty:

Well I would prefer neither, but it seems only skanky firms make these boxes :lol:

Celtic - I have a first generation Sky Digital dish (not the Sky+ one which also works) and it is absolutely fine. Just unplug from the back of your digibox and plug it in and away you go.

I would go for the cheapest option as I think they all have the same internals. Just buy the badge you prefer :p

[Faythur]

If it was me, I would be buying the Humax. Might be basically the same internals, but I would trust Humax to install better quality components like the power supply etc.

They're all the same price anyway - except of course Currys (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=5) want an extra tenner for the box alone [if you do not order/need installation at the same time] :suspect:

[Faythur]

Not sure whether the UK will get a version of this, but here's a link for those interested to the english language manual for the Humax Sat PVR known as the iCord HD which I believe is sold in Europe http://www.humax-digital.de/products/new_manual/iCordHD_100GB_M.pdf

Pretty pricey! http://www.sateuropa.co.uk/product_overview.asp?id=1814&catid=1&subcat=56 :eek: but they seem to come in different hard drive sizes - this is 320Gb but I've seen a 160Gb version advertised.

"An in-built twin tuner allows you to record up to 4 channels, while watching another." :nuts:

[LouBarlow]

If it was me, I would be buying the Humax.

I thought about it, but all comparisons I've read, point to the picture being worse on the Humax than the various Alba re-badged pikey-models.

I'm not paying more money for worse quality, and Humax are not exactly Pioneer either.

[MaleStrom]

If it was me, I would be buying the Humax. Might be basically the same internals, but I would trust Humax to install better quality components like the power supply etc.

They're all the same price anyway - except of course Currys (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=5) want an extra tenner for the box alone [if you do not order/need installation at the same time] :suspect:
No they're not! The Bush is £30 cheaper (as is the Goodmans if bought from
Currys (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=5)) - both £119, whereas the others are £149.

[Faythur]

Sorry, hadn't seen that.

Here's another PVR from Topfield http://www.satellitesuperstore.com/topfieldhd.htm

This too might be worth keeping an eye on http://www.lyngbox.com/ still in the development stages...

[Celtic]

Well I would prefer neither, but it seems only skanky firms make these boxes :lol:

Celtic - I have a first generation Sky Digital dish (not the Sky+ one which also works) and it is absolutely fine. Just unplug from the back of your digibox and plug it in and away you go.

I would go for the cheapest option as I think they all have the same internals. Just buy the badge you prefer :p

thanks lou - good straight advice as always:thumbs:

[LouBarlow]

I think watching the footie has made this worthwhile already. I've heard people complain about BBC's HD channel, in terms of quality, but it is a massive improvement on SD football, which is a smeary mess generally.

You can see which way the ball is spinning mid-air ffs - that's good enough for me. You will also see which footballers have the worst skin, and admire all of Alan Hansen's facial scars like never before.

[FishBoy]

I am well interested in getting one of these in time for Wimbledon, but I'm also thinking of waiting a bit until better kit comes out.

I'm assuming you can only record and play back from Freesat in HD onto a PVR if it's a specific Freesat PVR model, i.e. my existing upscaling Sony PVR will not take the HD signal and record/play back in HD?

I hope this thing doesn't turn out to be a white elephant like that free-to-view thing (ITVDigital?) that collapsed...

[poissony]

One of the primary goals of Freesat was to ensure the whole population would be able to receive subscription free TV after the analog switch off. That need wont change so I can't see it collapsing.

Your Sony PVR won't be able to record and playback in HD.

[FishBoy]

Cheers for the clarification Poissony...

[Celtic]

free HD !!! Bloomin SKY have been milking this for 2 years !!!! Free at last !!!

[LouBarlow]

The football today is a little disappointing though :(

Close-ups are fine, but there is definite artefacting/blocking/mosquito noise during long shots - not as clean as I was hoping for :(

Is it the same on Sky's box as well?

Still a massive improvement on SD (especially via freeview :gag:)

EDIT - BBC HD obviously...I hear Sky's HD channel offers better quality.

[poissony]

When you say better quality...Sky's HD channels are not without their detractors, although they do have a higher data rate than BBC HD but that in itself doesn't make it better. I don't have Sky HD so can't compare. I've only just tuned into the match but can't see any artefacts, not the best picture I've seen though.

[LouBarlow]

The football they show during the preview looks STUNNING but live is perhaps more difficult to transmit somehow?

It's not bad per se, just not up to the standards of the rest of the material shown during the preview, which looks prestine.

[The Bear]

The BBC1 digital SD picture was awful tonight, so that's probably why the HD version didn't look so great.

[Cockeye]

My Sky+ box has gone tits up tonight - lost about 20+hours of recorded stuff and have no TV :(

Stupid question time - I take it I cant buy one of these freesat boxes and just connect it up to my existing dish? If I can, I take it I will lose the ability to record and all subscription channels like Sky Sports?

[maddogsuk]

Stupid question time - I take it I cant buy one of these freesat boxes and just connect it up to my existing dish? Yes you canI take it I will lose the ability to record and all subscription channels like Sky Sports?Yes you will. Hence its called 'Free'sat.

[Cockeye]

I was just wondering if you could "add on". Guess that would defeat the objective though........

[carlmcg]

Picked up a Goodmans from Currys today, it's shocking how much some people try and charge for a HDMI cable!

Anyway, just watching Holland and Italy, it's really crisp near the TV (32" Sammy) in 720p but further away there's not THAT much difference.

EDIT: watched Wild China after, OMG, the colour and the 5.1 sound was stunning.

[maddogsuk]

High Definition

£149.99 Argos Goodmans GFSAT200HD Black Freesat HD Digital Box. (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=28&url=http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5321588/Trail/searchtext%3EFREESAT.htm)

£149.99 Argos Humax Foxsat HD Freesat Set Top Box. (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=28&url=http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5321595/Trail/searchtext%3EFREESAT.htm)

£119.99 Argos Bush BFSAT01HD Black Freesat HD Digital Box. (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=28&url=http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5321564/Trail/searchtext%3EFREESAT.htm)

£149.99 Comet HUMAX FOXSAT-HD (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=37&url=http://www.comet.co.uk/shopcomet/product/444855/HUMAX-FOXSAT-HD)

£149.99 Comet GRUNDIG GUFSATHD (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=37&url=http://www.comet.co.uk/shopcomet/product/444332/GRUNDIG-GUFSATHD)

£149.99 Dixons Humax Foxsat-HD freesat Digital Satellite TV Receiver (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=1&url=http://www.dixons.co.uk/martprd/store/dix_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0429995406.1213039453@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccjadeeflmdhedcflgceggdhhmdfhk.0&page=Product&fm=null&sm=null&tm=null&sku=536738&category_oid=)

£149.99 Dixons Grundig GUFSATHD High Definition freesat receiver (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=1&url=http://www.dixons.co.uk/martprd/store/dix_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0429995406.1213039453@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccjadeeflmdhedcflgceggdhhmdfhk.0&page=Product&fm=null&sm=null&tm=null&sku=667237&category_oid=-34838)

£119.99 Dixons Goodmans GFSAT200H High Definition Freesat Receiver (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=1&url=http://www.dixons.co.uk/martprd/store/dix_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0429995406.1213039453@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccjadeeflmdhedcflgceggdhhmdfhk.0&page=Product&fm=null&sm=null&tm=null&sku=142563&category_oid=)

Standard Definition

£69.99 Argos Goodmans GFSAT100SD Silver Freesat SD Digital Box. (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=28&url=http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5321571/Trail/searchtext%3EFREESAT.htm)

£49.99 Argos Bush BFSAT01SD Freesat SD Digital Box. (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=28&url=http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5321557/Trail/searchtext%3EFREESAT.htm)

£49.99 Comet GRUNDIG GUFSAT01 (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=37&url=http://www.comet.co.uk/shopcomet/product/444324/GRUNDIG-GUFSAT01)

£49.99 Dixons Goodmans GFSAT100S Standard Definition Freesat TV Receiver (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=1&url=http://www.dixons.co.uk/martprd/store/dix_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0429995406.1213039453@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccjadeeflmdhedcflgceggdhhmdfhk.0&page=Product&fm=null&sm=null&tm=null&sku=500227&category_oid=)

Installation

£80.00 Argos Single Freesat Installation. (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=28&url=http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/8890030/Trail/searchtext%3EFREESAT.htm)

[The Bear]

So what exactly does installation involve? Just chucking the dish up and running the cable into the house? Or do they need to point the dish correctly, etc.

[koe_182]

hmmmm got a sky dish on the side of this property from previous owners....if i wasnt going on holiday this month i'd probably go for one of these...shame i'll miss the footy.

anyone recon these will be one of those items that just drops in price? still seems a bit expensive for me...(obviously not compared to sky HD granted)

[AdamBrunt]

I was just wondering if you could "add on". Guess that would defeat the objective though........

It's a good question though. Freeview / OnDigital is free but you could pay extra for stuff like Sky Sports.

Other than the actual PVR stuff, the main use for Sky is Sky One and Sky Sports. Neither of which are available to freesat. As it is, we are on the minimum number of 'mixes' plus Sky Sports - so I'm only, effectively, paying for Sky Sports every month. If freesat doesn't have the ability to do that then it's not worth it for me.

[poissony]

You can't get Sky Sports with Freeview but you can get Setanta. Like you Sky Sports is the only reason I still have a Sky sub, I can't see Sky Sports ever being available on Freesat. Setanta, maybe. Do any of these Freesat boxes have a card slot?

[AdamBrunt]

You can't get Sky Sports with Freeview but you can get Setanta. Like you Sky Sports is the only reason I still have a Sky sub, I can't see Sky Sports ever being available on Freesat. Setanta, maybe. Do any of these Freesat boxes have a card slot?

Wasn't sure about Freeview but OnDigital certainly let you subscribe to Sky Sports 1.

Not sure about the card slot but even with the TopUpTV thing on Freeview I don't think that has Sky's premium content on it.

[ColinP]

I have no doubt that if Freesat gets a decent saturation it will be very hard for Sky not to try and reach those customers in some way.

[AdamBrunt]

Indeed - but until that is confirmed (plus they start bringing out twin tuner boxes - if they haven't already) then Sky+ with a Sky Sports subscription is the way to go for me.

You've also got to wonder how they're going to do it without annoying their existing Sky Sports via Sky subscribers.

[ColinP]

You've also got to wonder how they're going to do it without annoying their existing Sky Sports via Sky subscribers.

We'll have to see if Sky's customer base is dented by the Freesat launch. At the moment, the lack of promotion isn't really doing Freesat any favours, but if Sky start losing customers in large numbers they'll have to do something.

[LouBarlow]

Indeed - but until that is confirmed (plus they start bringing out twin tuner boxes - if they haven't already) then Sky+ with a Sky Sports subscription is the way to go for me.


£110 for an HD box = 11 months of paying Sky just for HD, even if I only want to watch BBC and ITV (not available on Sky in HD btw) in high-def = worth it for me.

I only have the very basic Sky Digital satellite, so upgrading to a Sky HD box would have cost far far more.

[poissony]

I'd go for a Sky HD box if they dropped that £10 a month sub for HD, hopefully a successful Freesat will lead to the HD sub being removed.

[AdamBrunt]

£110 for an HD box = 11 months of paying Sky just for HD, even if I only want to watch BBC and ITV (not available on Sky in HD btw) in high-def = worth it for me.

I only have the very basic Sky Digital satellite, so upgrading to a Sky HD box would have cost far far more.

That's true but then with it's current output, HD doesn't interest me in the slightest at the moment (certainly not at £10 per month). With no sign, at the moment, of SkySports appearing on Freesat ... if Sky were to drop their £10pm HD charge (and who knows they might !!! after all, no one thought they'd ever drop the £10 Sky+ sub) then it would be a Sky HD I went with.

I didn't know you couldn't get BBC HD on Sky though. So what do you need (other than Freesat) to see the Euros in HD ?

[douglasb]

Only ITV HD you can't get.

[AdamBrunt]

I'd go for a Sky HD box if they dropped that £10 a month sub for HD, hopefully a successful Freesat will lead to the HD sub being removed.

Indeed.

[Celtic]

When you say better quality...Sky's HD channels are not without their detractors, although they do have a higher data rate than BBC HD but that in itself doesn't make it better. I don't have Sky HD so can't compare. I've only just tuned into the match but can't see any artefacts, not the best picture I've seen though.

i agree - i believe there was also a point recently were sky were simply upscaling 480p images to 720p on their movie channels.....then claiming it was HD!!!

[LouBarlow]

I didn't know you couldn't get BBC HD on Sky though. So what do you need (other than Freesat) to see the Euros in HD ?

I meant ITV HD - sorry.

[Celtic]

can i use my sky subscription card in these baxes????

[maddogsuk]

can i use my sky subscription card in these baxes????No. I dont think there is even a card or CAM slot in them.

[LouBarlow]

No there isn't.

[dennisspooner]

i agree - i believe there was also a point recently were sky were simply upscaling 480p images to 720p on their movie channels.....then claiming it was HD!!!

Sky HD is 1080i

[Faythur]

I've just posted this in the bargain forum thread:

Just FYI if you live in my neck of the woods - in N Ireland....

I've just discovered why I couldn't seem to receive HD whenever it was broadcast on ITV. Here the channel is UTV and they obviously don't broadcast the 'red button' switch feature :brickwall

Solved by reinstalling with a London postcode, so it's fine now :thumbs:

[LouBarlow]

Really enjoying the football still. ITV HD actually outperforms the BBC's effort, on my set-up at least. No artefacts at all on ITV for me. Weird.

[Faythur]

I don't get any artifacts on either. You sure your dish is aligned spot on? Mine shows signal strength 90% and quality 100% [in N Ireland]

[LouBarlow]

Mine is exactly the same mate. On BBC it is 90% and 100% as you say. It looks great tonight so maybe it was just a one-off.

Could you check the strength and quality on ITV HD next time there is a game, as although my quality was at 100% my signal strength seemed to drop to about 70% or so. It seems less than the BBC here for some reason.

[Deron]

Pixellating and breaking up all over the gaff tonight on ITVHD...

First game I've been able to watch as well after holiday.

SD fine but fugly...

[George vader]

£110 for an HD box = 11 months of paying Sky just for HD, even if I only want to watch BBC and ITV (not available on Sky in HD btw) in high-def = worth it for me.

I have to admit I'm quite tempted, just bought a 37" Sony so would love to see the final (and semis) of the Euro 2008.

I have a Sky dish still installed, am I correct in thinking I just hook up the LNB cables to the box?

[allan]

The football does look pretty damn good in HD, better on ITV HD strangely as well. The Amir Khan fight was on ITV HD on Saturday night as well which was a nice bonus.

[douglasb]

Could you check the strength and quality on ITV HD next time there is a game, as although my quality was at 100% my signal strength seemed to drop to about 70% or so. It seems less than the BBC here for some reason.

Weather? Blowing a gale in some places.

[FishBoy]

Anyone seen Wimbledon on Freesat yet? Any good?

[allan]

Will check when I'm home.

[Nick_J007]

Can I chip in and seek some clarification too please?

Is there anything stopping me from running my end socket from the Sky dish on to a two-way splitter and then feeding both my Sky box and a Freesat box and then switching between inputs to view both featured channels albeit one at a time of course?

I also assume that I will need an HDMI cable from Freesat box to TV instead of the Scart?

Stop me now if I'm trying to achieve the impossible! :doh:

Nick

[LouBarlow]

That is possible. I bought a switcher from Maplins (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=60&url=www.maplins.co.uk) that did the trick.

[Nick_J007]

Thanks! How about this one? I see there are two available, but this one sites digital TV. [ 2-Way F Splitter (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=60&url=http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ModuleNo=29530&doy=24m6)

Are you running a Sky box and Freesat then matey?

That is possible. I bought a switcher from Maplins (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=60&url=www.maplins.co.uk) that did the trick.

[LouBarlow]

No I'm not sure that would work - mine has an actual switch on it to choose between the two.

Like this one

Aerial Switch (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=60&url=http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=17808&&source=14&doy=24m6)

[Nick_J007]

Uh?

Is Maplin site down now...neither my link or yours does not click through...or is it me?

[maddogsuk]

Working fine for me.

[Nick_J007]

Ok, I can click through to Maplin now; though your link just takes me to the home page :)

Maybe you have a product number for me?

Many thanks.

Nick


No I'm not sure that would work - mine has an actual switch on it to choose between the two.

Like this one

Aerial Switch (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=60&url=http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=17808&&source=14&doy=24m6)

[LouBarlow]

Maplin - Put "Aerial Switch" into search box - First Result (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=60)

[Nick_J007]

Ok that works a treat now thank you.

So, you have aerial in onto one point, and the other two run out to both a Sky box and a Freesat box?

The Freesat is then connected to your TV via HDMI?

Nick

[LouBarlow]

Maplin - Put "Aerial Switch" into search box - First Result (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=60)

Strewth! You try your best to affiliate every link and still you can't catch a break.

Nick, yes I have my dish running into the switcher, and the two outputs to the two boxes (freesat and Sky) my freesat is connected via HDMI and Sky via good old fashioned scart, as I don't have Sky HD (or even Sky + :D )

[Nick_J007]

Rest assured, you're not alone...same as me then!

This sounds to me to be a 'perfect' solution for now. Have you noticed any deterioration in your signal when watching one box as opposed to another since adding in the splitter? I presume not.

This has helped a lot, and I think I shall go for the4 Freesat along with this splitter. Sorted. Thanks Lou.

Nick



Strewth! You try your best to affiliate every link and still you can't catch a break.

Nick, yes I have my dish running into the switcher, and the two outputs to the two boxes (freesat and Sky) my freesat is connected via HDMI and Sky via good old fashioned scart, as I don't have Sky HD (or even Sky + :D )

[LouBarlow]

No deterioration at all. I have signal strength at 90% and Signal Quality at 100% on Freesat. It is the same without the splitter in the set-up.

[The Chad]

Cheers for the info Lou, I currently have just 1 feed going to my sky+ and the other going to my HTPC which is a pain when setting up recordings on the sky box as it freezes up when trying to use the 2nd tuner that has no feed so this would save alot of swapping for me. Just need to get myself and optical switch too which I also see on the maplin site and I'm set

[turnergw]

I'm looking at getting a freesat dish installed to replace freeview for my main TV - never had Sky (refuse to pay them!) and my aerial is getting on a bit, which means some freeview channels are pretty ropey in terms of reception - currently it's looking cheaper to install a dish and go for freesat, than to replace the aerial.

At the moment I'll only get an SD box, will go HD once the HD PVRs are out, so all I need at the moment is a simple installation and an SD box.

Question though: Does the installation (eg the £80 job from Argos) include a dual or quad LNB, or is it a single one? Is there a choice? I presume that for a dual tuner PVR, I'd need at least a dual LNB? Or am I barking up the wrong tree here? Never got into the whole satellite game, so I'm trying to work out exactly what I need to get before taking the plunge!

Not bothered (currently) about getting satellite into other rooms, as I'll keep freeview elsewhere for the moment, but I do want to support a decent HD PVR once they're available. Any clarification much appreciated!

[Faythur]

Can't answer all your points, but I would say that I find Freeview to be infinitely better PQ wise compared to SD sat - I have an HD Freesat box.

Anyway, what I did want to mention is that my daughter is getting a Sky SD install from Currys (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=5) for £75 which gives them 3 months of the full sky package and she has been told that after the 'trial' period she can cancel her sub with Sky and keep the equipment.

My point is, it's £5 cheaper than just a Freesat install plus you wont need to buy a box. Then later on just buy your Freesat HD PVR :)

[turnergw]

Thanks for the Sky info - sounds like it might be a neat little ploy. Alternatively it turns out that Comet are doing freesat installation with a quad LNB and all cabling for £100, which should at least futureproof the installation somewhat.

Now though I'm more worried about the picture quality - I've always found freeview to be extremely good for quality (as long as I can receive it at all!) whereas the PQ on Sky always seemed to me to be pretty rubbish. I assume that this is because Sky insist on packing 1000 channels of garbage in with the 2 or 3 I'd be interested in, and I'd hoped that freesat would allocate more bandwidth per channel - sounds like that isn't the case though. :(

Guess I'll have to find somewhere I can compare, and see whether it's worth it!

[LouBarlow]

SD quality is not great to be honest.

[allan]

SD is definitely better than it used to be though in terms of compression.

[dennisspooner]

The Sky HD box upscales everything so my SD satellite channels are better than either my Freeview PVR or the Freeview built into the tv - the exception being ITV1 which even upscaled is awful via satellite

[FishBoy]

I've gone for it, on the back of being able to watch Wimbledon and the Olympics in HD. Should be up and running tomorrow...

I went for the Goodmans box in the end - the Humax is supposed to be better in terms of features etc., but they're hard to find at the moment. I plan to replace it with a decent PVR once they've come out and come down in price anyway, and hey, if it's good enough for Lou, it's good enough for me :)

[FishBoy]

Got mine sorted - ordered on Thursday, installed on Saturday at 9am. It's excellent - the picture quality on our 40" Sony is superb! Wimbledon looked stunning; the shots of the stadium from the fixed camera up near the roof were amazing, with loads of detail, and during play you can see the strings in the net, individual blades of grass etc...top stuff!

Signal strength looks good at 90-95% of the maximum.

[Faythur]

I plan to replace it with a decent PVR once they've come out ...

Turns out that Humax will be the only PVR manufacturer :eek: so there will be no other competition when it comes to pricing....

Also, not sure I really want to go for it now anyway.

As far as HD is concerned, ITV are in absolutely no hurry to produce a dedicated HD channel - it will remain as a 'services via red button' option only. They seem to be commited to Sky for the forseeable future :(

Channel 4 have absolutely no plans for a Freesat HD channel, despite reports to the contrary and there is no word at all from Channel 5!

So, will will be left with a 'watered down' BBC schedule only by the looks of things. Oh dear.....

[allan]

ITV HD has almost been as useful as BBC HD since it launched. Almost. So far we've had all the Euro 2008 games that ITV had the rights to, the Amir Khan fight and then a film on Saturday night. It does to be a bit of guess work though as to what's actually on. Oh and so far they haven't broadcast anything in 5.1 like BBC HD does.

[Robby]

Any clues on when the next lot of HD receivers might be on the market? I'm loathed to spend over a ton on a Bush/Goodmans/Alba branded devices.

[Faythur]

Doubt it will happen unless Freesat takes off in a big way.

You may not be aware, but Alba, Goodmans, Bush and Grundig are all exactly the same internally. Only Humax so far are independant.

Not sure who manufacters the Panasonic onboard TV one, but probably again Humax :shrug:

[LightStorm]

No deterioration at all. I have signal strength at 90% and Signal Quality at 100% on Freesat. It is the same without the splitter in the set-up.

So lou, you still get 100% of your stations, from either system, depending on which ever one you've selected?

[Dick Long]

I'm loathed to spend over a ton on a Bush/Goodmans/Alba branded devices.

But their Freesat HD boxes are of surprisingly good quality - not Sony / Pana but arguably Tosh / LG / Samsung level. They've obviously put a lot of effort into them.

The HD PQ is superb and they generally function very well, though like the Humax HD box, the SD is a bit soft.

Stick a bit of tape over the name if it worries you!

[LightStorm]

Thanks Lou.

Took your advice and bought one of those signal-slit devices and it works prefectly.

One side point, not related to the actual system itself. Noticed how badly the F-connector was fitted by the professional installer who fitted our original SKY system. It was barely on! So I took it off and refitted it myself.

[Robby]

I think i'm going to go for a Humax box, purely, if i understand correctly, that box has a feature to add extra channels. It may prove useful in the future.

I just wish Channel 4 would air their HD channel. Does anyone know the specifics why that's unlikely to happen or if their new 4 Music channel is Freesat bound?

[allan]

C4HD is tied into a contract with Sky for the time being, at least for the rest of this year.

[Robby]

So i've bought my Humax HD Freesat box and i can't get past the searching for satellite signal stage. It's been searching for 10 minutes. I've tried skiping that and putting in my postcode and that comes up as invalid as well. Faulty dish, cabling, box? Who knows!

Flipping typical after i've bought 20m of satellite cable and run it it through my house and into my bedroom and i've ripped up my old existing aerial so i'm without TV full stop. :(:(

[jester]

I too recently took the plunge and bought a Humax Foxsat box.

Very painless install/channel search from the existing satellite dish on the side of the house. standard def quality slightly below freeview imo but the BBC HD and the other free to air euro HD channel (luxe?) are spot on.

Yes the Humax can be used as a regular non freesat box. There is an option in the menus to take it out of freesat mode.

Have you seen the BBC HD schedule now the Olympics are on!

[Shingster]

Hmm, my parents are always getting signal problems with their current ariel & I recokon they live in a low signal location, I wonder if freesat is the way for them to go seeing as they never had probs with SKY when they used to have it.

Can you use your existing bog-standard PVR with Freesat though?

[allan]

Hmm, my parents are always getting signal problems with their current ariel & I recokon they live in a low signal location, I wonder if freesat is the way for them to go seeing as they never had probs with SKY when they used to have it.

Can you use your existing bog-standard PVR with Freesat though?

If it's a satellite tuner then yes in theory it should work. A freeview pvr won't though.

[Shingster]

thanks allan, guess they won't go for freesat then as they've just recently purchased a PVR!

[cloudchaser]

Hi all

I plan to get Freesat but was unclear about a few issues - hopefully someone can help answer them.

I currently have a standard 32" Toshiba 32ZP38. My questions is - should I buy a HD Freesat box will the SD picture quality be fine for my TV? Or should I buy a SD Freesat box for best possible SD picture quality?

Thanks in advance for all help

[poissony]

Get a HD box if you intend to upgrade to a HD display in the future.

The SD output on a SD and HD Freesat box should be the same, I've heard no reports to indicate otherwise on any of the current receivers.

[cloudchaser]

Thanks Poissony.

I plan to upgrade to a HD PVR in the future (whenever they come out) so do I have to ask for a specific type of installation (Quad LNB?) to avoid having to pay another set of installation fees when I buy the HD PVR box?

Also any recommendations on who is best for installations? My old ariel has toppled over a bit and I want the installer to remove it when he puts up the Freesat dish.

EDIT - Best installer service query is mainly for the big nationwide retailer chains.

[poissony]

You should get an installation that will meet your foreseeable needs. If you intend to get a twin tuner HD PVR for the living room and move the freesat box you are about to get to the bedroom then a quad is what you'd want, it will cover the three tuners. If you think you'll need more than 4 tuners then get an opto LNB although I don't think they're cheap.

Get them to run the cables to wherever you plan to have a receiver when they do the install. That way you wont have to worry about that later on.

[dunkrag]

My freeview box has just gone tits up.
Thinking of going FreesatHD.

I'm in a block of flats that has a shared sky feed - I used to subscribe to Sky here, but cancelled as the Subs weren't worth it - so I have a point in the wall that I know is plumbed to a dish.

I use TiVo as my PVR - any problems with just going to pick one up today and plugging it in? Does it interface with TiVo ok? (Except the HD channels I assume).

also - If I have the HDMI plugged into my TV does it override the output that will be going into my TiVo? Obviously I'd want the SD feeds going into the TiVo but would want to have the HD feed plugged into the TV for occasional HD viewing. Is this possible?

[poissony]

Which Freesat box where you thinking of getting? The Humax HDCI 2000 is certainly supported by TiVo. Look at the TiVo forums if you're thinking of getting another model.

You'd have to check out a review of any box you were going to get concerning a scart and a HDMI output being active at the same time. I'd have thought they would be but you should make sure.

[riaz]

got the Humax and v happy.

The only thing is I just can't seem to get ITV HD.

I know that it is not a dedicated channel but is supposed to come up as an icon on ITV.

Never seen any such icon - what am I doing wrong?

[allan]

There's only 1-2 programmes on a week, so the button hardly ever appears.

[Professor Abronsius]

Couple of questions to save me reading back folks...

1. I used to have Sky Multiroom and have the old Cables still there but no STB. If i get a new Sky Box is it just a matter of hooking it up and then i have access to the FREE Channels... ?

2. If not how do i do it... ? :D

Am a bit unsure exactly what all this Freesat stuff is to be honest. Assume it's all the Channels the Sky Box pick up that are not subscription ones... ?

Cheers. :)

[allan]

Just get a freesat box instead, it will work better as all the menus etc. will be tailored for the freesat experience rather than Sky. But yes, the cables etc. will work fine as I'm using a Sky minidish and the cables that they installed.

[Professor Abronsius]

They're a bit pricey... :D

[jester]

Is this any good?

Passion+ - HD Satellite Receiver for Free Digital TV with USB Recording (http://www.thedvdforums.com/affiliatelink.php?localaffiliateid=60&url=http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=224742)

[maddogsuk]

It doesn't look like an Official BBC - ITV Freesat box. So you wont get the freesat EPG and possibly have to find work arounds to get ITV HD.

[allan]

ITV HD will be an issue if you can't manually specify settings. It broadcasts all day long as I can view it anytime I want, just on a Freesat box you only get the option to watch it whne the red button appears.

[jester]

What do they broadcast? a test signal? I have NEVER seen an ITV HD broadcast on my Foxsat box in Freesat mode or regular mode. Where is it?

[maddogsuk]

ITV HD Will be broadcasting the England International this saturday. Dunno what else they broadcast.

The option to watch only appears on Standard Def ITV with the Red Button. A non Official Freesat box, as I ubderstand it, will not show the Red button.

[jester]

ITV HD will be an issue if you can't manually specify settings. It broadcasts all day long as I can view it anytime I want, just on a Freesat box you only get the option to watch it whne the red button appears.

All day long? Test signal? What are the manual settings? :help:

[allan]

You'd need to look them up on digitalspy forums. I use mediaportal and it's basically transmitting a picture the whole time saying there are no current programmes.