View Full Version : Memento SPOILERS wanted
Right, finally got to see this last night, thoroughly enjoyed it but not completely convinced I got all the implied plot points...
Does anyone want to elaborate for me, I've searched both movie forums and all the memento threads I've studiously avoided for months seem to have vanished!
Just Call Me Wanda
23-01-2002, 13:44
My advice is watch it again - I think it is probably much more fun and enjoyable to find out all the in's and out's rather than being spoon fed!! ;)
Feed me! ;)
I know, and I will be watching it again, but the issues I'm confused on I don't think will become clearer.
I was just trying to phrase a question when all became clear, think I've sussed it now. :)
Just Call Me Wanda
23-01-2002, 14:05
One reason I didn't try to answer your question is I haven't got a clue myself! - Will have to watch it again soon!
Well if you wanna know what I reckon... suffice to say this is a spoiler :rolleyes:
I reckon, the sammy jenkins story was a front all along he just convinced himself off it, in the same way he knew at the end he would convince himself teddy did it. The break in caused his condition but his wife did survive, he experienced the same situation he described sammy & wife in and killed his wife. and on he went from there....
or is that just the tip of the iceberg and was there something else going on I missed...?
Just Call Me Wanda
23-01-2002, 14:43
That's about the same thing I got from my first viewing.
DuncanWardle
23-01-2002, 15:15
From my 1st viewing I would say that.....
His Wife DID die
The SAMMY JENKINS STORY was real.
If he had killed his wife like in the story surely he would NOT have remembered it,
He had been doing what he was doing in the film for ages.
He would carry on doing what he did in the film for ages.
Some people used him.
He used some people.
Foxy Slamdangle
23-01-2002, 15:22
He killed his own wife. The real twist in the plot is whether you believe he has his short term memory <I>condition</I> or if he is just a full blown nutcase.
Play the film again and watch carefully:
1) Earlier in the movie, when Natalie asks something along the lines of "what's that space on your chest for?" - he replies it's for the name of the killer. During the tatooed flashback at the end of the film "It's Me" is written there.
2) Watch when Sammy is sitting in the chair at the nursing home, a doctor walks by and for a split second 'Sammy Jenkis' turns into Guy Pearce.
3) His own file of notes on the case appears to contain quite a few letters from his psychiatrist and the mental hospital that he's obviously legged it from!!
There's plenty of other little pointers along the way (it's been a few months since I last saw the film) which escape me. The story is there if you look hard enough.
SqueakyG
23-01-2002, 17:30
I suggest you watch the film with the chronological order easter egg... it isn't a good way to enjoy the film, but it makes more sense of the plot. Other than that, just watch it a couple more times and think about it deeply :D
Here is what I think it is all about:
Leonard suffers from this memory condition, but this kinda hides the fact that he is also quite mentally unstable.
Two junkies break into his house, rape his wife and attempt to murder her. She survives. She tries living with Leonard and his memory condition, but finds it very frustrating. She thinks he can get over it, so she tests him with her insulin injections. This proves fatal for her -- Leonard kills her.
Either due to his condition, or due to the fact that he doesn't want to remember this happening (probably a combination of both), Leonard applies this to a fictional case involving Sammy Jankis. "Sammy Jankis" is just the name of a client he worked with. Leonard has taken the name and face of a man, and applied his own life to him.
So Leonard assumes his wife was killed on the night of the attack, due to a combination of his condition, and a wilful desire to forget.
He goes on a quest for vengeance to find the killer. He is assisted by the only cop who will believe him -- John Gammell (Teddy). Teddy helps Leonard to find and kill the "John G" who raped his wife, in the hope that it will clear up Leonard's condition and make Leonard remember that his wife wasn't killed by John G at all. But unfortunately, when they find and kill John G, it doesn't clear anything up for Leonard.
Leonard thn goes from town to town, finding more and more John G's and killing them. We do not know how many John G's he has killed, but it is probably quite a few.
The clever twist is that Leonard WANTS to keep finding more John G's. He purposely fogets that he has killed one, so that he can continue to find another. This is because he is psychologically screwed up -- he cannot cope with the fact that he killed his wife himself, and he cannot live a worthwhile life anyway, so he devotes his life to the vengeance mission. Teddy hangs with him out of sympathy, but he also has an opportunistic streak, to see if he can make any profit from each of Leonard's situations.
Cirrus888
23-01-2002, 17:48
SquekyG's last description is how I would describe the movie too. Although Foxy Slamdangles observations are very interesting and is something I have to look out for on my 2nd vewing.
The HK R3 version of Memento is only HK$55 (under a fiver) and is a DVD I will check out ASAP.
Pistol Pete
23-01-2002, 18:50
Something that I spotted was...
There's one shot where you see Leonard with his wife, and he has all the tatoos on his chest.
But he wasn't meant to have started making the tatoos until after his wife was murdered.
So what's going on there??
Pistol Pete
Originally posted by Foxy Slamdangle
1) Earlier in the movie, when Natalie asks something along the lines of "what's that space on your chest for?" - he replies it's for the name of the killer. During the tatooed flashback at the end of the film "It's Me" is written there.
Hmmm - I could have sworn.....
The tattoo says "I've done it". as in "I've found and killed the guy I'm looking for"
Code Monkey
23-01-2002, 20:45
Originally posted by Cirrus888
The HK R3 version of Memento is only HK$55 (under a fiver) and is a DVD I will check out ASAP.
Where from Cirrus888?
Borrowed this DVD from a friend and really enjoyed it, after the first viewing I knew I would want to watch it a few more times to pick up on things that I'd missed. At that price I could hardly refuse! (Had a quick look though the bargains but didn't see it anywhere).
Thanks.
EDIT: Maybe I shouldn't have read those spoilers before watching it again though :rolleyes:
The butler did it.
I'll get me coat.
boink!
:p
lycanthrope on the loose
23-01-2002, 21:22
did you pay for it on itv select ;)
watch this after I watch requim for a dream for the third time :nuts:
Originally posted by Code Monkey
Where from Cirrus888?
Try:
www.coolashop.com
www.hivizone.com
www.dddhouse.com
Squeaky is on the nose if you ask me.
Go here:
http://moviepooper.com
And scroll down to Memento on the sidebar. That will tell you all you need to know.
Cirrus888
24-01-2002, 03:50
Originally posted by Code Monkey
Where from Cirrus888?
At that price I could hardly refuse! (Had a quick look though the bargains but didn't see it anywhere).
Forgot to mention I am in HK at the moment and that is the retail price here in HK but I don't know what the quality is like. If your interested you could always drop dddhouse, hivizone and coolashop a line to see if they can get it for you but remember to add an extra 2 pounds for postage.
Originally posted by RikA
Hmmm - I could have sworn.....
The tattoo says "I've done it". as in "I've found and killed the guy I'm looking for"
Rik A - saw this for the first time last night and you're right about what that tattoo said. That one flashback bit is the reason why my head hurt so much after seeing it!! What a great film though...
So what do others make of THAT flashback scene?
Confused
24-01-2002, 08:56
If I understand this film correctly then 'Teddy' must be the last 'John G' Leonard kills because he added Teddy's licence plate to his Tatatooed facts. Was that a deliberate mistake to punish Teddy - who had been stringing him along for his own gain - and stop the killing.
The brief flashback scene with him already tatooed and his wife must have been a red herring fantasy scene.
My head hurts....
Now, more than ever...
:confused:
Foxy Slamdangle
24-01-2002, 10:50
Originally posted by RikA
Hmmm - I could have sworn.....
The tattoo says "I've done it". as in "I've found and killed the guy I'm looking for"
Well it's been a while since I've seen the film so apologies if I've got my facts a little skewed but I still read I've done it as I'VE DONE IT!!!!
But why was his wife with him? He still had the 'John G raped and murdered my wife' tattoo but the space on his heart that he'd be going on about was now filled with 'I've done it'. Was it more of a wistful dream? To show he was at peace now he felt he'd avenged her? But then, if Sammy Jankis is fake and Lenny killed his wife with the insulin???
Jeez, my head STILL hurts :(
After 3 viewings my take is.......
His wife was raped and attacked, he came in to help but knocked out on the floor which gave him his 'condition'.
He can only remember the last thing before the accident which is his wife lay there who looked dead.
He awaked every morning thinking his wife was dead, but she wasn't. Then she did the insulin trick to see if he remembered and it didn't work, thus he killed her.
The Sammy bit his brain had made up, it's only thing he 'remembers' after killing his wife.
Along comes the Cop and helps him find and kill the real John G. Leonard of course doesn't remember this and the cop finds various bad guy's called John G for Lenny to kill.
At the end of the film (which chronologically is the beginnning)the cop slips up with the 'facts' and Lenny finds out from the cop that he's been killing all these people and that didn't kill/rape his wife. So Lenny on purpose (while he still remembers) leaves himself a note which eventually makes it look like the cop is John G so he kills him (Which is at the beginning of the film but chronologically the last thing that happens)
I would have to agree with Bolch as thats the way I saw the movie. Plus it's the easiest to understand:D
Yeh, I agree - a good summation BUT...what about that flashback scene with the I've Done It tattoo? That's still the only bit bugging me.....
SqueakyG
24-01-2002, 14:16
As for the "I've done it" tattoo...
Two theories -- the "It is a fantasy shot" theory, and the "It really happened" theory:
1) The first and most obvious thought I had was that it must be a fantasy shot, something not real. I think it indicates that Leonard has a very brief fragmented recognition that everything Teddy told him is true. The message "I've done it" could be Leonard telling himself, "I'm the one who killed my wife".
2) If it is a real tattoo and the scene really happened, it means Leonard had already done most of his tattooing while his wife was still alive. Can you imagine how she would have felt, if Leonard had already begun his quest to find the killer? Then if Leonard came home one day with the tattoo: "I've done it", she would have been totally freaked out... she'd have realised he went out and killed the guy who raped her! Perhaps this was the final straw for her, and gave her reason to make him snap out of his condition, by testing him with the insulin injections.
Both ideas hold up pretty well. I guess it is your choice which to believe.
Rollo Tomassi
28-01-2002, 10:59
Okay, this is my take on the events in the film (I've seen it four times).
Firstly, the "I've done it" tattoo:
It's a fantasy - Leonard thinks he has found and killed John G (Teddy), which is what "I've done it" is referring to, not that he killed his wife or anything else. It's interesting how people forget exactly what is tattooed on his chest - I've seen many refer to it as "I did it", which implies something completely different. Memory's unreliable.
Now, the other events of the film:
Leonard walks in on his wife being attacked by two intruders, he is injured, and she later dies in hospital.
The police believe there was only one attacker, so close the case. Leonard knows there was someone else in the bathroom, and he somehow (not sure on this bit) arrives at the following facts:
Male
White
First Name: John or James
Last Name: G_______
Teddy, who is possibly a cop, initially believes Leonard's story of a second man, and helps him track down John G, who is killed. But Leonard doesn't remember it, so he continues his search. Here, Teddy realises he can use this to his advantage, and they go in pursuit of other John Gs.
Jimmy is one of these, and Teddy plans to make some money out of it by setting up a drug deal. By feeding Leonard a fifth fact over the telephone ('Drug Dealer'), he is able to convince him this is the right man, and Leonard duly kills him.
What Teddy doesn't realise is that Leonard now realises he's been set up, and so to gain revenge, and continue to give his life meaning, he invents Fact 6 - Teddy's licence plate. Now he has a new John G to pursue.
This sets in motion a series of events that ultimately leads to Teddy's death at the beginning of the movie.
This is my take on the film, but what I really suspect is that there aren't many absolute truths in Memento. I just have a hard time taking Teddy's words as gospel truth, when throughout the film he has shown instances of lying.
If anything this thread show's how useful it would be to have a director's commentary track, although I suppose that might spoil the fun for working it out for ourselves.
Hehe, cool, forgot all about this thread. Least I wasn't to far off the mark then, and I've only seen it the once. Definitely worth a rewatch and might have to hold onto my R2 a bit longer and make sure the new R1 has that commentary... :)
oh and my take on the heart tatto is its fantasy, unless..... ;)
saw this the first time the other day and have to say it's one of the best films i've ever seen. superb. i know this has been asked before a thousand times but would anyone be kind enough to post the beginning of the end easter egg cos i can't seem to find it. cheers
:D
Presuming its R2 then this (http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/index.cgi?page=Review&id=590&story=2686) should answer your query.
blessthemess
29-01-2002, 01:08
i have been on many forums and have seen many interpretations.... but what is sorely missing is: HOW DOES THIS FILM AFFECT YOU?
When i got to the end and realised that he was making this up, i was on the verge of tears. It was poignant. (As he got into the car, writing on the polaroid.....)
He was rejecting reality.
He didnt want to believe.
He died with his wife that fateful nite.
Now he stalks the earth alone.
Loveless, Souless....
His mere existence is now hinged by the search for the "truth".
That is the only motivation that still keeps him alive.
A very moving Love Story.
LotusElan
05-02-2002, 18:15
The arguments above sort of cleared things up for me, but did Leonard actually kill his wife or not? As he doesn't have the "I've done it" throughout the course of the film, I've presumed that this must have been the last one he had done (i.e. after all the previous events of the film), and therefore his wife is still alive at "the end" of the film.
Also, if this guy cannot remember anything after his accident, how does he keep remembering to go and look at his photos to know what's going on?
some interesting ideas here.have watched it twice and am still unsure myself will have to watch it again,but on a more light-hearted note.on Teddys photo he writes "he is the one" so obviously he cant remember The Matrix too well as im sure it was Keanu Reeves!
Sonicmint
07-02-2002, 00:05
I have more questions........
Was there 2 intruders, and if so, the one that was shot and killed in the disturbance could of been John G, or was he the one that supposedly got away?
Leneard mentions two intruders (he says one struck him from behind) but did they both rape and kill his wife?????
Originally posted by Sonicmint
I have more questions........
Was there 2 intruders, and if so, the one that was shot and killed in the disturbance could of been John G, or was he the one that supposedly got away?
Leneard mentions two intruders (he says one struck him from behind) but did they both rape and kill his wife?????
There were indeed 2 intruders. One raped Leonard's wife and almost killed her; the other presumably watched, and attacked Leonard when he entered the bathroom. "John G" was the one that got away, and when Leonard escaped from the hospital he hunted that guy down and killed him. And then forgot about it (possibly because he-- on some level of consciousness --wanted to still have a purpose in life, possibly just because of his "condition").
Cheers,
Steve
ed rooney
07-02-2002, 12:10
A lot of the difference in opinion seems to boil down to..
..whether you believe Leonard suffers from this inabilty to form short term memory. I lean towards him having the condition, knowing that he will never be satisfied and therefore continuosly searching for new John G's. In my opinion for him not to have this condition seems to mislead the viewer too far.
I could of course be very wrong. I think as long as you enjoy it and come to some sort of conclusion is the main thing.
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