My Robocop rant

[SqueakyG]

It's time for my rant about why the hell we can't by Robocop on its own. I know there have been several other threads about it, but I wish to address some new points.

First of all, I don't really like the reasoning people have about the cost. they say: "The rare Criterion version costs between £25-50, so to get the R2 version with the other two films included for £27 is a bargain!" But this doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter how cheap the R2 Robocop Trilogy is in comparison to the rare collerctor's Criterion copy. What matters is how expensive it is compared to HOW R2 CONSUMERS DESERVE TO BE TREATED! It is simply unethical and unfair to make Robocop only available for £27-35 packaged with two of the worst films ever made. We deserve the ability to buy Robocop on its own for £15-20.

Notice how nobody knows about the extras for the other two films? All the DVD reviewers reviewed the Robocop disc months ago... but still no word on the extras for Robocop 2 or 3. Why not? Because they're going to be bare-bones discs! Hell, I'd be surprised if they even had chapter-stops. They are so obviously useless films that I should NOT have to buy!!

I'm sick of MGM ripping off consumers. They release films with an average amount of extras that could fit on one disc, but they make them "2-disc special editions" so that they can sell for £25 rather than £15.

I should not have to pay any more than £15-20 for Robocop! It is a GREAT film, with an incorrect cropped aspect ratio, layer-change-length pauses between the newly reinstated scenes, and a very average amount of extras. To make me pay £27 for this is unacceptable.

Last time I had this rant, people said: "Well don't buy it then". This annoyed me. This attitude will not help the situation, it doesn't stop MGM ripping us off. But the fact is I NEED Robocop on DVD! It is one of my favourite films! I will have to buy it! I'm not sure I ahve a multi-region player or a TV that can handle NTSC, so I'm a R2 consumer. I deserve to be treated better.

[Matt Sandbrook]

Yeah it is pretty rough but all we can do is wait i guess.

[Edmund]

I agree, I was tempted by the bare-bones R1, but someone said that had dodgy sound. Even the R2 has dodgy branching so some say. I don't know how long the R1 collector's edition will be, but that looks the best bet.

[RoboCop4]

I agree with you 100% that the first film should be available on its own. This is what FOX did with the 1968 version of POTA, and even MGM themselves did it with Rocky. I wish that PARAMOUNT had done the same with The Godfather, as it's only the first film that i really like.

However, when you say....

Originally posted by SqueakyG
Last time I had this rant, people said: "Well don't buy it then". This annoyed me. This attitude will not help the situation, it doesn't stop MGM ripping us off.

.... I disagree. Don't forget that this is the age of consumerism. If no-one buys a company's product, they will not continue to produce it. Whether this means that MGM would just stop releasing DVDs on R2 is another thing.

My response (rightly or wrongly) to Univseral UK's recent DVD travesties such as Silent Running and Smokey and the Bandit has been not to buy them - even at £7.99 *special* prices. If they get decent sales figures from these blatant rip-offs, they'll continue to release similar quality DVDs.

Originally posted by SqueakyG
...I'm a R2 consumer. I deserve to be treated better.

Getting decent DVDs isn't a birthright. Don't take it so personally ;)

[sampath]

From what I can see the only thing particularly wrong with the R2 release is the problem with branching. Compared to the Criterion disk, it has better extras & sound, and the cropping is fairly minimal (and I suspect this is how it'd have been shown at the cinema anyway, so Verhoeven must have kept the cropping in mind when he shot it). It definitely represents better value for money than the Criterion.

But yes, I do agree that MGM should've released them separately alongside the box set. But again I think the box set represents pretty good value for money for those who don't mind parts 2 & 3. I'd have bought it were it not for the branching issues - as things are, I'll be waiting to see if the R1 DC is any better.

[Grumpy]

It's all about the money and how much Joe Public can be ripped off.

[f_drew]

Huh ? Why ?
If it was just about "money and how much Joe Public can be ripped off" they would have charged £60 for the 3 films.

For me, I have the Criterion (and will keep it), but I paid ~£25 for it. That was about a year ago. For roughly £1-2 extra I get two extra films and deleted scenes (I really, really wanna see the final 'Media Break' that was omitted). This was my problem with SqueakyG's original comment, that he/she would not pay "any more than £15-20 for Robocop ". Well, OK, that's your choice, but for not too much more you get two extra films. Admittedly it isn't too good that you don't get a choice, but it could be worse.

Look at it this way, I am not a huge fan of NoES 2, 4, 5 or 6, but had to buy them to get 1, 3 and New Nightmare. I paid for this as I wanted to. You too have that choice ! ;) :D :eek:

BTW, has there been any plans to release the Robocop mini-series that was produced relatively recently in full on DVD (I know about the French one, but it is not the full length episodes.) :confused:

[01keith]

I only watched my Criterion Robocop (Haven't watched it in 8 months) yesterday and was wondering about the R2 myself. The R2 Robocop SE has alot of Features that arn't on the Criterion and I was going to get the R2 just for these extras. There should be a petition set up to get MGM to release Robocop SE on it's own without the other 2.

"MGM, COME QUIETLY OR THERE WILL BE TROUBLE!":brickwall

[SqueakyG]

Originally posted by f_drew
Huh ? Why ?
If it was just about "money and how much Joe Public can be ripped off" they would have charged £60 for the 3 films.

It is about doing a very sneaky thing. MGM own the rights to Robocop 2 and 3, but they are well aware that the films are utterly rubbish and would never sell by themselves. So to make a little money out of these films, they make it so that a lot of Robocop fans will pay some money for them. That is sneaky. Making people pay for two awful films they don't want, because it is the only way to own the GOOD film.


For me, I have the Criterion (and will keep it), but I paid ~£25 for it. That was about a year ago. For roughly £1-2 extra I get two extra films and deleted scenes (I really, really wanna see the final 'Media Break' that was omitted).


But we shouldn't compare the outrageously expensive price of this R2 release with the outrageously expensive price of Criterion. we should compare the price to the standard of R2 retail: £15-20.


Look at it this way, I am not a huge fan of NoES 2, 4, 5 or 6, but had to buy them to get 1, 3 and New Nightmare. I paid for this as I wanted to. You too have that choice ! ;) :D :eek:

You can buy the NoES films separately... I have no idea why you would have bought the box set if you don't like 60% of the material in it. I've seen every disc on sale separately.

[Jimmyboy]

OK well to back up f_drews point about the ELM street box.
How many people dont like Godfather 3 but still brought the boxset on its release for around £60 ?.

and I disagree about the 2 sequels not selling if they were released on their own. I know of many people who would buy Robocop 2 if they were released on their own, and that means MGM could charge £20 each and make £40 off the 1st 2 films alone.

£26 for 3 films is a bargain even if the sequels arent great, you'd have a point if MGM were selling them for £50 - £60, but its obvious they realised the sequels are poor hence the reason for the cheap price.
If Robocop 1 retails at £20, then your getting the 2 sequels at £3 each !.
Cant complain about that, I dont like the sequels but I'd rather pay the extra £6 and complete the set.

[DeadKenny]

Originally posted by 01keith
There should be a petition set up to get MGM to release Robocop SE on it's own without the other 2.


And in Verhoeven's approved 1.66:1 ratio, and without pauses because of the (non-seamless)branching for the uncut version. In my opinion, if you've got the Criterion, hold on to it!

[utero]

whil I don't think the £30 or so for the boxset is a rip-off, I'm one of the people who may have bought the new SE of Robocop had it been released on it's own for around £15 online, however I don't want to the othe two crappy films so I won't bother

[rfawley]

Why dont you guys just wait for another pricing error or sale in a few months time and get the box set for about £20 or less and then you will have a bargain.

Personally, I've got the Criterion and will keep it and dont plan to buy the R2 version.

[mr_woo]

well for all us punters who like the sequels (including me :D ) i'm very happy with the price of the boxset, though i can understand why some people would want them seperate.

I'd have to agree with Jimmyboy regarding Robocop 2, i know many a people who would buy this film separately so for around £26/£26 the boxset is a bloody steal!!

[sticker]

Simply put - I can't wait for this wee feller to arrive -

BRING IT ON > >

http://homepage.eircom.net/~garryleavycomedian/Avalon.jpg

[f_drew]

Originally posted by SqueakyG
But we shouldn't compare the outrageously expensive price of this R2 release with the outrageously expensive price of Criterion. we should compare the price to the standard of R2 retail: £15-20.
Did you not read :
This was my problem with SqueakyG's original comment, that he/she would not pay "any more than £15-20 for Robocop ". Well, OK, that's your choice, but for not too much more you get two extra films. Admittedly it isn't too good that you don't get a choice, but it could be worse. :confused:
If you are truly that bothered then wait to see what happens in R1 when they release the SE of Robocop. This has not been announced whether it's a box or seperate yet. If you're that bothered buy the R1 seperate bare bones release for arounfd $20.
Originally posted by SqueakyG
You can buy the NoES films separately... I have no idea why you would have bought the box set if you don't like 60% of the material in it. I've seen every disc on sale separately.
I bought the complete R1 set at the end of 1999. It took at least 18 months to get released here and even then, they are not as good a version. You also do not get the 'encyclopaedia' (sp ?) disk on R2 (or seperately in R1).

Basically, at the end of the day, I agree that they should release Robo 1 seperately, but feel that I can vote with my feet and not buy it if I was that bothered. I'm buying this because :
- I quite liked Robo2 and have never seen Robo3.
- I really enjoy Verhoeven's commentaries
- I want to see the 'deleted' scenes.
- Ringo's offer is pretty good
- I think that it deserves a 5.1 remix and am looking forward to that.
- I want an anamorphic picture (as I've previously said, I've got the Criterion, so I can see the OAR version if I want to !)

Personally, I've had more greviances against Paramount than any other major studio, but they are now learning about the 'added value' of extras and are improving their discs.

[The Beyond]

Perhaps if you stamp your feet harder MGM might give in?

Or you could try holding your breath.

[Uridium]

Just got hold of a copy - very nice nicely presented. Quite a slimline box which all folds out to reveal the three discs. You get a little mini-mag style thing in there too. Robo 2 + 3 are bare bones but this is still worth getting for the extras with the original and, yes, I do have the Criterion already!

[mjb1975]

I did sell my Criterion in preparation for this new release - and was promptly worried about the reports of the so-called seamless branching!

I'd love to hear this in 5.1 - the one thing missing from the CC. Yes, it's the OAR, but I'm not really that bothered by a couple of small trims around the edges.

Looking forward to it. I quite liked Robocop 2 as well, so this is fairly decent value imo.

[Dan Druff]

I think the problem is that when it comes to films as brilliant as Robocop people want an equally brilliant DVD..but neither R1, Criterion or R2 is perfect.


R2 has better extras and 5.1 sound but non-seamless branching on the extra violence, cropped picture and you have to buy 2 and 3 aswell.
R1 AFAIK is 5.1 and anamorphic (according to play) but theatrical version only and no extras.
Criterion is correctly framed at 1.66:1 but is not anamorphic. The sound is only pro-logic. The extras aren't a patch on R2, but there are no pauses at the extra violence as it is the only version on the DVD.


We should have a DVD with the features available on R2, anamorphic picture framed at 1.66:1, with 5.1 sound, seamless branching at scenes of extra violence, and you should be able to purchase this on its own. The fact we do not have this shows that a compromise must be met, and when it comes to movies like Robocop true fans don't want to compromise.

[nc]

Yep I'm another who won't pay £25-30 for the trilogy. I wouldn't pay a pound for 2 & 3. Hopefully by the summer, HMV will be selling it in their sales for £15, and then I'll get it.

[Solidus]

Originally posted by SqueakyG
It's time for my rant about why the hell we can't by Robocop on its own.
Agreed. RoboCop should be available to buy on it's own.
Originally posted by SqueakyG
I'm sick of MGM ripping off consumers
MGM don't 'rip off' consumers any more than other studios do. The price point announced for the R2 release of the RoboCop trilogy is excellent value for money.
Originally posted by SqueakyG
They release films with an average amount of extras that could fit on one disc, but they make them "2-disc special editions" so that they can sell for £25 rather than £15.
You can usually pre-order/buy MGM's 2-disc sets for £17.99 or less online. Wouldn't you rather have the main feature on a separate disc so as not to compromise the transfer quality?
Originally posted by SqueakyG
Last time I had this rant, people said: "Well don't buy it then". This annoyed me. This attitude will not help the situation, it doesn't stop MGM ripping us off. But the fact is I NEED Robocop on DVD! It is one of my favourite films! I will have to buy it!
If you feel so strongly about the injustice you have suffereed at the hands of MGM then you should not buy their product and you should let them know exactly why you've chosen not to buy their product.
Originally posted by SqueakyG
It is simply unethical and unfair to make Robocop only available for £27-35 packaged with two of the worst films ever made.
I can't comment on the second sequel as I haven't seen it, but RoboCop 2 hardly qualifies for the 'one of the worst films ever made' tag. I for one am looking forward to finally being able to watch it uncut and on DVD.

[Boink!]

Originally posted by The Beyond
Perhaps if you stamp your feet harder MGM might give in?

Or you could try holding your breath.

Or you could run with scissors.

Let's face it MGM are BIG, we are small. What we want and what they want to give us 99 times out of 10 are going to be different. I suppose there are many people who are more than happy with the box set.

Me, I like my Criterion.

Boink!:cool:

[f_drew]

Originally posted by Boink!
What we want and what they want to give us 99 times out of 10 are going to be different.
Damn, we'll never get what is wanted then ! :rolleyes: ;) :D