View Full Version : The New Official Liverpool Thread 2007/08 Part III. Gr-Eight stuff!!
Moving on from:
http://www.thedvdforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=486299
LouBarlow
07-10-2007, 21:51
official needs a capital 'O'
Dear God - that was just awful today. We were lucky to get a draw. :(
AdamBrunt
07-10-2007, 22:49
Dear God - that was just awful today. We were lucky to get a draw. :(
Erm ... we were unlucky, from what I've read (not watched FF yet), not to be 2-0 up at half time. Would have changed the game completely.
poissony
07-10-2007, 23:01
Erm ... we were unlucky, from what I've read (not watched FF yet), not to be 2-0 up at half time. Would have changed the game completely.
Sounds like last season then.
Erm ... we were unlucky, from what I've read (not watched FF yet), not to be 2-0 up at half time. Would have changed the game completely.
How on earth do you work that one out? Voronin is clear through on goal and instead of shooting when one on one with the keeper he passes it to Gerrard? That's bad luck??????
No, I'm sorry but judging by FF we were, quite simply, crap today. Again.
AdamBrunt
08-10-2007, 07:36
Nah - Wednesday night was crap. Yesterday was a heck of a lot better than that.
Have you also forgotten Gerrard's freekick coming back off the post ?
I have to say I found the commentary at odds with what I saw [admittedly highlights are just that]:
Steg was not as bad as made out was he? Seemed okay to me but not the Steg of old.
The miss when there was TOrres/Steg/Voronin in the box was just plain stupid though.
A fair few chances went missing. Was Reina coming out those times a reflection on his unease with the defending?
Both goals we conceded were poor.
DarthPearce
08-10-2007, 08:26
@ people calling for Rafa's head after conceeding about 2 goals at home all season
Yeah the guy has a problem with rotation, and a crap beard, but surely there is nobody out there who you would want to replace him with?
Cheers Lou - it comes to something when it takes a fan of another team to come in and give a sense of perspective. :thumbs:
Sami and Carra had bad days - Sami lost two headers to Berbatov and they resulted in 2 goals - that's not going to happen very often. Carra got caught out trying to provide cover across the whole of the box - for the first Finnan wasn't covering well enough and for the second Arbeloa wasn't doing his job IMO. I think we've got so used to Carra's superhuman defending that we think he's playing badly when he plays like every other defender. He's not on top form but he's not playing that badly.
We are missing Agger - he's our Hanson and the man who knows how to bring it out from defence. Our drop in form has coincided with his absence. I don't think Alonso is going to make too much of a difference but Agger's will.
Gerrard played ok IMO, certainly not the nightmare some are talking about - again I think he's well off his best but not playing that badly. He could have had 2 goals from freekicks yesterday and I don't think he was expecting Voronin's pass in the box (Vorinin was in the best position to score.)
I honestly think this is our seasons 'blip' - the one that usually happens around xmas or at the very start of the season. If I'm right and we manage to get through it without any losses then we can still maintain a challenge this season. 4th in the table with a game in hand on most of the teams around us and we are calling for Rafa's head!?! :nuts::doh: Let's try showing some support - if 50% of the fnaas in the ground are as negative as people on here then it's no wonder it was like a funeral home on Sunday...
TigaSefi
08-10-2007, 09:52
Maybe it's because it's the same old same old, we got you saying it'll be fine and he'll get the hang of it....4 years later ur still spouting the same thing ?
AdamBrunt
08-10-2007, 10:01
Maybe it's because it's the same old same old, we got you saying it'll be fine and he'll get the hang of it....4 years later ur still spouting the same thing ?
So who would you replace him with who's available to take charge for the Everton game ??
Not a very long list is it ? In fact does it have anyone on it all ? Oh, and please don't mention that arrogant tosser Mourinho.
TigaSefi
08-10-2007, 10:07
So who would you replace him with who's available to charge for the Everton game ??
Not a very long list is it ? In fact does it have anyone on it all ? Oh, and please don't that arrogant tosser Mourinho.
Which is why I wanted a change in the summer but nevermind it can happen next summer. As I said Capello and Lippi would be nice. Capello managed to turn Real Madrid from a very expensive misfit of a team to something of a decent La Liga champions in a very short time.
It's a joke that Ericsson who bought or rather Man City bought a load of players only seen on Videos and he managed to get them playing fantastic football already :| The football they play is extraordinary sometimes. I am baffled!!!
saltysam
08-10-2007, 10:11
Rafa deserves until the end of the season at least.He can be judged then but if we are miles off the pace again then maybe it´ll be time to take stock of where he´s taking us. yesterday was better than wednesday (that wouldn´t be hard) but still nowhere near good enough. we should´ve been 2-3 up by the time Spurs scored but that was not bad luck just poor finishing imo. once Spurs took the lead we faded alarmingly and a team with more confidence would have took the opportunity to finish us off.Gerrard played ok first half,disappeared in the 2nd. on the positive side we are still unbeaten in the league (too many draws though) and hopefully the two tough games we have next will shake us from our slumber.
AdamBrunt
08-10-2007, 10:11
It's a joke that Ericsson who bought or rather Man City bought a load of players only seen on Videos and he managed to get them playing fantastic football already :| The football they play is extraordinary sometimes. I am baffled!!!
How much do you want to bet that Liverpool won't be miles ahead of City come May ??
TigaSefi
08-10-2007, 10:15
Right now only a £1. I am sure Ericsson knows he hasn't got depth (neither have we really in terms of defenders) and he probably get 1 or 2 more players in January. I'd bet more that Man City will still be only 10 points or so below us.
saltysam
08-10-2007, 10:17
Erikkson for LFC :notworthy:doh:
TigaSefi
08-10-2007, 10:20
Erikkson for LFC :notworthy:doh:
He got a really good pedigree in club football. :thumbs:
Not a very long list is it ? In fact does it have anyone on it all ? Oh, and please don't mention that arrogant tosser Mourinho.
I would LOVE to see what you say about him if he ever did become LFC manager:lol:
I would LOVE to see what you say about him if he ever did become LFC manager:lol:
If the club made him manager I would seriously consider my support for the club. For nearly 25 years I have supported Liverpool and I would hate to see a ******* pillock like him at the helm.
I'd take Jose. Who cares about the ego if he wins us the league :shrug:
As I posted in the last thread - Rafa can have until the end of the season. However if by Xmas we are (for the 3rd season running) massively off the pace, then questions must be asked.
And as for arrogance, I think Rafa is demonstrating a fair bit of that by sticking to rotation. Everyone else knows it doesn't work when deployed to the degree Rafa uses it.
If the club made him manager I would seriously consider my support for the club. For nearly 25 years I have supported Liverpool and I would hate to see a ******* pillock like him at the helm.
Didn't know you were a fair weather fan Stu? :p
poor poor performance. as said earlier hope this is our blip, think if we had agger on instead of sami we wouldn't have conceded two.
any talk of replacing rafa just now is madness imo.
I'd take Jose. Who cares about the ego if he wins us the league :shrug:
As I posted in the last thread - Rafa can have until the end of the season. However if by Xmas we are (for the 3rd season running) massively off the pace, then questions must be asked.
And as for arrogance, I think Rafa is demonstrating a fair bit of that by sticking to rotation. Everyone else knows it doesn't work when deployed to the degree Rafa uses it.
It's got nothing to do with ego, Rafa has shown he has an ego to match Maureen, it's got everything to do with dignity and respect.
Didn't know you were a fair weather fan Stu? :p
how does anything I said make me a fair weather fan?
AdamBrunt
08-10-2007, 10:56
I would LOVE to see what you say about him if he ever did become LFC manager:lol:
Shame cos, as I have said before, from what I've read the club have no intention of ever giving the job to Jose.
AdamBrunt
08-10-2007, 10:58
As I posted in the last thread - Rafa can have until the end of the season. However if by Xmas we are (for the 3rd season running) massively off the pace, then questions must be asked.
Last season, we were already massively off the pace by now.
And as for arrogance, I think Rafa is demonstrating a fair bit of that by sticking to rotation. Everyone else knows it doesn't work when deployed to the degree Rafa uses it.
So you wouldn't have complained had the team that started on Wednesday also started yesterday ??
DarthPearce
08-10-2007, 11:14
So you wouldn't have complained had the team that started on Wednesday also started yesterday ??
Still not quite got the hang of multi quote have we Adam! ;)
As far as teams and rotation policy you can't just argue about the team selected as you are doing - yes it was possibly our strongest starting lineup yesterday (Agger notwithstanding) but that team (or very close to eit) has to play regularly together to get the sort of understanding on the pitch that you are seeing from the likes of Arsenal and ManU. We have to give the spine a chance to gel as a team.
We've seen that as individuals we definitely have a stronger, more skilful team than in previous seasons. What we are lacking is cohesion and consistancy and I think that is almost certainly down to the extreme nature of Rafa's rotation policy. Rafa has put together a squad capable of winning the PL, his tactics and style of play is capable of winning the PL but at the moment (and in previous seasons) the players have failed to perform the same match after match - only if he tames his rotation policy will we realistically have a chance of winning the PL.
poissony
08-10-2007, 11:15
how does anything I said make me a fair weather fan?
If your support is dependent on who the manager is then you could be said to be a fair weather fan. I think it was just a joke though (hence the smiley) after you called Balstino a fairweather fan.
saltysam
08-10-2007, 11:28
Shame cos, as I have said before, from what I've read the club have no intention of ever giving the job to Jose.last time i checked there was no managerial vacancy at Anfield hence no job to offer.But do you seriously think,in the future if it all went pearshaped for Rafa and Jose was available,we wouldn´t consider him :shrug:of course we would,for all his smarmy arrogance he´s a winner.
Stevie G
08-10-2007, 11:29
Everton and Arsenal are our next two games. Important few weeks coming up.... I know we're fourth, but we've had too many games that come the end of the season should have been wins, and all those results were ultimately down to poor team selection. I agree with Swanny in that Rafa shows arrogance by refusing to accept that his rotation policy isn't as effective as he'd like, and would rather he was humble enough to acknowledge it rather that stubbornly defend it.
Burned_Alive
08-10-2007, 11:31
Personally i think we had the beginnings of a great game on our hands with spurs, unfortunately hyypia being poor for the two goals put a huge dampener on things right before half time and straight after, which must have absolutely sapped the team. We could have quite easily have been 3-0 up before half time had things gone our way. Spurs werent really creating much before then and i would almost lay the blame solely on hyypia for not challenging for the two headers. This showed even more with Reina looking very unsteady and often feeling he had to come out more (consistently on his left side, not the right) to compensate for the lack of cover hyypia was providing. We're desperate for Agger to come back, not only does he solidify the back line, but he also starts alot of the movement from the back.
I know its all doom and gloom at the moment, but we're fourth with a game in hand, which would put us right up in the running and its still very early on.
saltysam
08-10-2007, 11:31
Last season, we were already massively off the pace by now.
which was down to the tough fixture list you reckoned :shrug: .this year we´ve had it much easier but are still starting to fall behind with all the tough fixtures in front of us.
Anyone calling for Rafa's head is mad - you're having a bad patch like the one United had (some would say are still having) right at the start of the season.
Yes, Rafa messes about with the team a bit too much but I'm sure he'll stick with Torrres now, he should be the first name on the sheet. But the fact is that Rafa has built a great squad of players with lots of positions 'covered' which gives him the opportunity to rotate a bit. The mistake was not in the rotation, the mistake was underestimating Birmingham away from home who play with ten behind the ball.
It'll come good, and even if you did junk Rafa, there is nobody of any quality who would take over and you'd end up with another Roy Evans replacement. The man won you the Champions League - he's earned himself a little breathing space I would think!
If your support is dependent on who the manager is then you could be said to be a fair weather fan. I think it was just a joke though (hence the smiley) after you called Balstino a fairweather fan.
Indeed it was.
As each week passes the points gap gets bigger. How long should we wait as fans to say that Rafa has got it wrong? 6pts, 10pts, 15pts?
He needs to sort it - now!
So you wouldn't have complained had the team that started on Wednesday also started yesterday ??
I want to see a more consistent team. Look at yesterday - Voronin and Torres up front, only the second time this season.
Rafa has my support if he picks his best 11 and sticks with them for a period of time. Lets see where we are then. My worry is that when I watch us play the players don't seem to gel. Our midfield has been non existent in the last two games.
bruce-leroy
08-10-2007, 13:40
It was nowhere near as bad yesterday; if Vorinin had scored the 2nd instead of passing to Gerrard, we'd have probably killed the game off. Hopefully, the break will do us good, and we can come back and take 6 points off Everton and Arsenal.
Hopefully, the break will do us goodIf it's anything like the last break we'll come back relegation material ;)
Keiron99
08-10-2007, 18:29
But the fact is that Rafa has built a great squad of players with lots of positions 'covered' which gives him the opportunity to rotate a bit.
You think so? There's not much evidence of it. Even the "first team", if there is such a thing, is pretty average. I don't really think anyone would categorise Pennant, Babel, Voronin, Kuyt, Crouch, Arbeloa, Benayoun, Leto, Aurelio (I could go on) as great players. I wouldn't even rate them as 'very good'.
I was thinking this weekend, it was 20 years ago that we set off on a season of the most thrilling football I have ever seen in my life - arguably the best football ever seen in this country. Maybe one or two of the current squad could compete for a place in that team, and I'm being generous there.
I said last season that it was the worst Liverpool team I had ever seen: I've changed my opinion now. This current crop is the worst I've ever seen.
saltysam
08-10-2007, 18:41
No,the Souness team circa 1993 was the worst i´ve seen in my time watching. Saunders,Dicks,Mike Marsh etc. combined with Rush & Barnes being past it, that was a bad squad :)
Keiron99
08-10-2007, 18:52
No,the Souness team circa 1993 was the worst i´ve seen in my time watching. Saunders,Dicks,Mike Marsh etc. combined with Rush & Barnes being past it, that was a bad squad :)
I think we accepted there was a big rebuilding job though. They were turbulent times too - recovering from the European ban, limits on foreign players, the dawn of the premiership nonsense. I'd have given Yosser longer.
Anyway. Barnsey for Come Dancing! You can see he's still got the footwork. (He lives next door to my mum, you know. :notworthy )
You think so? There's not much evidence of it. Even the "first team", if there is such a thing, is pretty average. I don't really think anyone would categorise Pennant, Babel, Voronin, Kuyt, Crouch, Arbeloa, Benayoun, Leto, Aurelio (I could go on) as great players. I wouldn't even rate them as 'very good'.
I was thinking this weekend, it was 20 years ago that we set off on a season of the most thrilling football I have ever seen in my life - arguably the best football ever seen in this country. Maybe one or two of the current squad could compete for a place in that team, and I'm being generous there.
I said last season that it was the worst Liverpool team I had ever seen: I've changed my opinion now. This current crop is the worst I've ever seen.
wow Keiron you really are a glass half empty type of bloke ;)
Anyway. Barnsey for Come Dancing! You can see he's still got the footwork. (He lives next door to my mum, you know. :notworthy )
I still tell people he's my dad...
Everyone has their favourite ever player and for me he was it...
That's probably why I'm so desperate for us to sign a tricky winger who can beat a player with not only pace but skill as well...
BlueDwarf
09-10-2007, 00:35
"I wanna be Benayoun!" just doesn't have the same ring to it..
Keiron99, I agree with you about our squad. Just not good enough.
If people think we are doing ok because of how awfully we started last season...gimme a break. Being ""slightly less *****" is nothing to get excited about.
I think people are putting blame on the rotation policy too much. Yes, it has had an effect on our poor results (most notably, Torres dropped against Birmingham), but the main reason for our crap results is that the players just ain't performing.
Rafa's been rotating since he's arrived at Anfield three years ago, and we've had success. So I don't think the rotation is the main problem.
DarthPearce
09-10-2007, 08:10
I think people are putting blame on the rotation policy too much. Yes, it has had an effect on our poor results (most notably, Torres dropped against Birmingham), but the main reason for our crap results is that the players just ain't performing.
Rafa's been rotating since he's arrived at Anfield three years ago, and we've had success. So I don't think the rotation is the main problem.
We've had a certain amount of success in cup competitions where you only have to perform on an occasional basis, and particularly in europe where teams get a little more time so players don't have to be as sharp as in the PL IMO. Despite that success we've struggled in the league and that's because we've really struggled with consistancy. I think this is because it takes the team to gel - especially as we always add a few new players to the mix and lose a few. It's no surprise that we have performed better at the end of each season, when players are only just beginning to overcome this problem caused by the severity of the rotation policy....
It's no surprise that we have performed better at the end of each season, when players are only just beginning to overcome this problem caused by the severity of the rotation policy....Rafa would argue that it's because the players are fresher :shrug:
AdamBrunt
09-10-2007, 08:38
I said last season that it was the worst Liverpool team I had ever seen: I've changed my opinion now. This current crop is the worst I've ever seen.
I'm sorry Kieron99 but that is absolute rubbish .... either that or you're only about 8 years old.
Roy Evans and Souness both put together teams which were a million times worse than the one we have today.
Keiron99
09-10-2007, 09:24
I'm sorry Kieron99 but that is absolute rubbish .... either that or you're only about 8 years old.
Roy Evans and Souness both put together teams which were a million times worse than the one we have today.
I completely disagree with you. See my comments ealier about Souness. With Evans, we played absolutely beautiful football. Remember how we all thought we were just one signing away from the title - unfortunately that signing turned out to be Ince.
Are you seriously telling me that you actually enjoy watching the football that we are playing under Rafa? Or that you think we will ever have a cat in hell's chance of winning the league with him at the helm?
DarthPearce
09-10-2007, 09:27
Rafa would argue that it's because the players are fresher :shrug:
he would do - but in those runs at the end of previous seasons players like Carragher who did play almost every match were still performing at a high level. Chelsea and Man Utd players till managed to perform well at the end of the last few seasons even though they weren't rotated nearly enough. It's all about how cohesive and familiar with each others style of play the players are - it's understanding and anticipating what your team mate is going to do. This sort of understanding is almost always missing in the sort of games we underperform in - Birmingham and Marseille being classic examples.
Fever Dawg
09-10-2007, 09:39
I was thinking this weekend, it was 20 years ago that we set off on a season of the most thrilling football I have ever seen in my life - arguably the best football ever seen in this country. Maybe one or two of the current squad could compete for a place in that team, and I'm being generous there.
What year did you slaughter Forest 5-0 at Anfield? That was some side and probably one of the best team performances I've ever seen.
poissony
09-10-2007, 09:49
What year did you slaughter Forest 5-0 at Anfield? That was some side and probably one of the best team performances I've ever seen.
It was the 87/88 side. All this hankering back to that side is not making me feel any better about the current squad. That was a great team.
Houllier's squad in his last season or even Rafa's Instanbul squad are worse than the present one.
EDIT: I did have a link to the game on youtube but not sure that is allowed :shrug:
slideymoo
09-10-2007, 09:56
Rafa would argue that it's because the players are fresher :shrug:
It probably is. Im sure rotating players helps in getting to the cl final as the main players can be rotated out inbetween league games, and if liverpool were still in contention for the premier league in march Im sure it would help there too, but by then its usually too late.
I dont think rotation was the problem against spurs, that was due to shocking defendng. For the first goal I think the defense was listening to the stadium announcement.
saltysam
09-10-2007, 10:47
I completely
Are you seriously telling me that you actually enjoy watching the football that we are playing under Rafa? Or that you think we will ever have a cat in hell's chance of winning the league with him at the helm?i don´t think the current squad is quite as bad as you think- but i agree with you,i don´t think we´ll win the league with it. Rafa has actually gone backwards league performance wise,2 years ago we finished with our highest points total (though we were never in title contention) last year despite signing Kuyt,Bellamy etc. we were worse. Rafa needs to play his strongest available team in every league match barring injury & suspension.
AdamBrunt
09-10-2007, 11:27
I completely disagree with you. See my comments ealier about Souness. With Evans, we played absolutely beautiful football. Remember how we all thought we were just one signing away from the title - unfortunately that signing turned out to be Ince.
Football is about winning pure and simple. For all the "absolutely beautiful football" what did Evans actually win ? Arsenal played, apparently, the best football all last season ... what did they win exactly ?? You get nothing in football for style and presentation.
As for one signing away from the title - it's been like that for the last 10/20 years from what I can remember.
Are you seriously telling me that you actually enjoy watching the football that we are playing under Rafa? Or that you think we will ever have a cat in hell's chance of winning the league with him at the helm?
Sure his teams have the odd duff game - every single team in the country do that as well - but at the end of the day I don't know a single LFC fan who wouldn't be happy with a season of scrappy performances but still win the title. Who cares how you do it as long as you do it ?
Do with have any chance of winning the league with Rafa ? IMO of course we do.
Keiron99
09-10-2007, 11:48
Football is about winning pure and simple. For all the "absolutely beautiful football" what did Evans actually win ? Arsenal played, apparently, the best football all last season ... what did they win exactly ?? You get nothing in football for style and presentation.
Well I take a completely different view. I actually think it's reasonable to want to be entertained by apparently international class footballers. Are you telling me you'd be just a happy watching us win the league playing like Wimbledon as you would be playing like 1970 Brazil? You can actually play entertaining football and win, you know. Look at Man U last year (indeed, most years they've won it over the last decade), same with Arsenal, same with us in the 80s. There's an abvious correlation between skill and success.
As for Evans, his record was actually pretty good.
Sure his teams have the odd duff game
We have the odd good game. I'd say just one so far this season, which was a nailed on cert anyway.
but at the end of the day I don't know a single LFC fan who wouldn't be happy with a season of scrappy performances but still win the title. Who cares how you do it as long as you do it ?Well, me at least. Like the 40,000 fans who sit in silent boredom at Anfield the last couple of years. You remember the song "The Liverpol Way"? Maybe not.
Do with have any chance of winning the league with Rafa ? IMO of course we do.
I sincerely hope you're right, of course, but rather like religious faith, you seem to take your position merely on belief. Just because you really, really believe and hope in something doesn't make it any more likely in reeality. I base my judgement on what I have seen and to date I haven't seen any evidence whatsoever that we are more likely it win it with Rafa than we were with Houllier or Evans.
AdamBrunt
09-10-2007, 11:58
Well I take a completely different view. I actually think it's reasonable to want to be entertained by apparently international class footballers. Are you telling me you'd be just a happy watching us win the league playing like Wimbledon as you would be playing like 1970 Brazil? You can actually play entertaining football and win, you know. Look at Man U last year (indeed, most years they've won it over the last decade), same with Arsenal, same with us in the 80s. There's an abvious correlation between skill and success.
I am telling I would be happy just seeing us win the title. To accuse Liverpool of playing like Wimbledon is very harsh IMO - yes we do it, route one, occasionally but so do most teams (hell, Spurs would have lost on Sunday without it). But on the other hand I am not expecting us to go out and play like Brazil every week - if you are then you're going to be sorely disappointed in this day and age IMO. You use Man U and Arsenal as a reference for "entertaining football" yet both teams have played more than the odd "ugly game" - and, as I said before, for all their entertaining "100 passes in a row, trying to walk the ball into the net" type play what have Arsenal actually won recently ?
As for Evans, his record was actually pretty good.
Again ... what did Evans actually win ?? One league cup was it ??
Keiron99
09-10-2007, 12:06
To accuse Liverpool of playing like Wimbledon is very harsh IMO - yes we do it, route one, occasionally but so do most teams
I never said that, did I? Although on reflection, we're more akin to Wimbledon circa 88 than Liverpool 88.
Again ... what did Evans actually win ?? One league cup was it ??
We're talking about the league, aren't we? 4th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd. And don't forget Roy's contibution over the previous 20 years. I don't expect Rafa will improve on his record much.
saltysam
09-10-2007, 15:01
We're talking about the league, aren't we? 4th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd. you are giving Rafa too much credit there -he finished 5th in his first season ;) nice compensation instead though that year :) Rafa´s Valencia played some great football,i´ve never seen it replicated in his time here. Rafa seems to worry about the opposition far too much in the PL,until he changes his outlook he´ll never win the league.
you are giving Rafa too much credit there -he finished 5th in his first seasonHe's talking about the Evans era I believe :)
saltysam
09-10-2007, 15:20
He's talking about the Evans era I believe :)sorry my bad...so Roy would´ve qualified for the CL every season under the new rules...that´s pretty good and i remember some cracking performances from his teams..Newcastle two years running,a couple of good wins over Utd..but ultimately he wasn´t up to winning the league.Bring back Kenny he knows how to win titles :doh:
I give up with our club - just been trying to buy tickets for the Arsenal game. They've shut down the Online Sales again for this game, I've spent 20 mins on my mobile in work trying to get through to the Ticket Office - once I got through and actually got up to an automated Fan Card number entry only for it to wrongly refuse to validate my Fan Card and 2 others times I was able to select Liverpool vs Arsenal only to be told that all operators are busy so naff off :oh-hum:
How people get legitimate tickets nowdays baffles me - the only way seems to be heading up to Anfield itself now and waiting for hours :(
Bring back Kenny he knows how to win titles :doh:
Slightly OT but I remember being at the game when he retired from playing and he gave his jersey to some old biddy. I was so upset as I wanted it. My cousin tried to explain it would be pretty hard for him to give it to me as we were at the very back of the stadium (I was only about 7/8).
I give up with our club - just been trying to buy tickets for the Arsenal game. They've shut down the Online Sales again for this game, I've spent 20 mins on my mobile in work trying to get through to the Ticket Office - once I got through and actually got up to an automated Fan Card number entry only for it to wrongly refuse to validate my Fan Card and 2 others times I was able to select Liverpool vs Arsenal only to be told that all operators are busy so naff off :oh-hum:
How people get legitimate tickets nowdays baffles me - the only way seems to be heading up to Anfield itself now and waiting for hours :(
The ticketing system is bonkers. I gave up this morning as it was getting more and more frustrating trying to get through. They really need to sort it maybe they should farm the ticketing out to a company that knows what they are doing.
Keiron99
10-10-2007, 10:23
How people get legitimate tickets nowdays baffles me - the only way seems to be heading up to Anfield itself now and waiting for hours :(
In the good old days, we all either bunked school or were on the dole!
AdamBrunt
10-10-2007, 10:59
Alonso has suggested he could well be fit for the Everton game.
Meanwhile, Kuyt has pulled out of Holland's game at the weekend (and is back at Melwood being treated on a hamstring strain) but hasn't been ruled out of their game next week.
source (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=rafa-benitez-last-thing-we-need-is-a-break%26method=full%26objectid=19927438%26siteid=50061-name_page.html)
The ticketing system is bonkers. I gave up this morning as it was getting more and more frustrating trying to get through. They really need to sort it maybe they should farm the ticketing out to a company that knows what they are doing.
the money they make off the phone line is phenominal... i can see a time when all online sales will be off and all tickets are sold through the phone line. its utter ***** mate.
Alonso has suggested he could well be fit for the Everton game.
Meanwhile, Kuyt has pulled out of Holland's game at the weekend (and is back at Melwood being treated on a hamstring strain) but hasn't been ruled out of their game next week.
source (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=rafa-benitez-last-thing-we-need-is-a-break%26method=full%26objectid=19927438%26siteid=50061-name_page.html)
That was on LFC Now last night. Rafa was also interviewed and seemed to suggest that Alonso would be available for Everton and Agger wouldn't be.
the money they make off the phone line is phenominal... i can see a time when all online sales will be off and all tickets are sold through the phone line. its utter ***** mate.
Its particularly galling when you actually get through to the Automated System, select your match, get told no one is available, get then cut off and still get charged for the call. Just robbery from the club :oh-hum:
The reserve game against ManUtd is on LFCTV at 6:45pm tomorrow.
£17m for Mascherano? Gossip page at F365:
Javier Mascherano has signalled his desire to remain at Liverpool. Now for the difficult bit: sorting out a deal with Kia Joorabchian, he of the interminable Carlos Tevez saga.
Pool paid Joorabchian's Media Sports Investments group £1.5m to effectively hire the midfielder in January and are now preparing to buy all of his 'economic rights'.
'Under the terms of the agreement, Liverpool can sign a long-term deal with Mascherano before June 30 next year by paying MSI £17million and assuming control of his economic rights as well as his playing registration, but planned changes to Fifa's regulations on third-party ownership mean that the club will wait before deciding to pay that sum,' reports The Times.
As for Mascherano, he sounds desperate to stay at Anfield.
"I love playing for Liverpool and if the manager wants to keep me then I'd definitely stay for a long time," he said.
"Liverpool are one of the world's biggest teams. They've got history, tradition, success and great fans."
AdamBrunt
11-10-2007, 09:36
Talk of Liverpool going in for Afonso Alves (who scored 7 goals in Herenveen's 9-0 win at the weekend) in the January window with Crouch going ... anywhere ;) ... but allegedly to Man City for £8M.
BlueDwarf
11-10-2007, 11:32
£17M for Mascherano is about £13M too much.
AdamBrunt
11-10-2007, 11:42
£17M for Mascherano is about £13M too much.
And why's that ??
Don't tell me ... you're basing on it on how he "played" for West Ham rather than how he's played for us and Argentina at a WC and Copa America.
IMO if we don't snap him up, even at that price, plenty of other clubs will be trying to.
unrealnils
11-10-2007, 11:47
4m :lol: you cheapskate
BlueDwarf
11-10-2007, 12:01
And why's that ??
Don't tell me ... you're basing on it on how he "played" for West Ham rather than how he's played for us and Argentina at a WC and Copa America.
IMO if we don't snap him up, even at that price, plenty of other clubs will be trying to.
I know fees a stupidly high nowadays, but £17M for yet another mediocre midfielder seems a waste. How many good games has he had for us? One?
Better than Benayoun though I guess, and Sissoko has gone back to being *****.
I take it back, £17M is a snip!
AdamBrunt
11-10-2007, 12:04
I know fees a stupidly high nowadays, but £17M for yet another mediocre midfielder seems a waste. How many good games has he had for us? One?
:lol:
Have you ever watched him play ?? He was one of our best players during last season's run-in.
£17m is a snip when you consider how much was spent on players like Hargreaves and Carrick.
and when you consider how much Crouch is supposedly worth.
£4m is low even when you consider £ per sq inch!
17m is not a snip, its a lot of money. If his ownership wasnt spread around and he was just playing for a normal club, he'd be nowhere near that price. Carrick was ridiculously overpriced, everyone knows that, and hargreaves is an excellent player, although still probably overpriced but i guess Man U were getting bored of the whole affair and just wanted to sign him regardless. I think 8-10 million would be closer to the mark for Mascherano.
DarthPearce
11-10-2007, 12:29
I know fees a stupidly high nowadays, but £17M for yet another mediocre midfielder seems a waste. How many good games has he had for us? One?
Better than Benayoun though I guess, and Sissoko has gone back to being *****.
I take it back, £17M is a snip!
He's arguably our best central midfielder on form at the moment and I can't say I remember him having a bad game for us. £17m is too much but to suggest £4m is ludicrous. £10m-£12m is a more realistic valuation but I'd suggest he'll go for more like £15m.
I think £17m is an (albeit overpriced) decent price for Mascherano. If you watch him you can see if a brilliant player. He needs more games. He will be an excellent premiership player.
£10M+ is about right for Mascherano in a non inflated market.
£17M isn't too bad considering how much many mediocre premiership signings go for around that price anyway.
Carrick ain't worth £8M, inflated prices or not. :|
Hargreaves is certainly worth £15M+, been a well proven top CL player for years now.
Clubs around Europe are far less retarded when it comes to making offers and usually get class players for around the £15M-£20M mark that is miles better than the likes of Bent :nuts:, fools and their millions are easily parted ;)
Real Madrid are the richest club in the world yet all their signings were pretty good bargains in comparison to the crap english clubs pay for...
masch is class! yeah ok he doesnt get many points in your fantasy leagues but watch him... tireless work rate, tackling ability and vision... yep all clichés of a great player but he exhibits all these qualities.
if carrick was 18m then 17m is cheap... and if it means sissoko will play less i am happy to bump the offer up to 20m :D
Carrick was 14 million + addons taking it up to a maxium possible 17 million or so.
overpriced, possible, but not too many United fans complained about the 14 million fee being increased last May.
Mascherano is truly a superb player, but he's not helped by the endless rotation going on.
He's by far our best defensive midfielder...
He dovetails nicely with whatever attacking midfielder plays with him.
He's reading of the game is second to none.
What I love is he's generally anticipating where the player with the ball is going to pass the ball and is already starting his sliding tackle when the recipient receives it.
Sometimes he slide tackles alongside a player just to take away an option of a pass. He also rarely wastes the ball in possession and is possibly our most important midfielder at the moment.
In the last 10 mins on Sunday it was him that was driving us forward...
saltysam
11-10-2007, 14:44
We should´ve cashed in on Momo in the summer and put whatever we got for him towards Masch,who is just an all-round better footballer.
Keiron99
11-10-2007, 15:16
He's by far our best defensive midfielder...
Which isn't really what we need at the moment. It seems to me to be a relatively modern concept this "defensive midfielder" thing. Didi was sublime at it though and my workmates tell me he's doing it for City now. We let him go too early.
we always had them, surely. Just that in the past they were the "hard man" ala Souness and McMahon now they are more subtle
Mascherano is truly a superb player, but he's not helped by the endless rotation going on.
Indeed.
Burned_Alive
11-10-2007, 17:51
Lots of mention of an "inflated market", isnt that just the norm now?
unrealnils
11-10-2007, 18:37
Not really, there will still some bargains during the summer both for players in and out of form.
We should´ve cashed in on Momo in the summer and put whatever we got for him towards Masch,who is just an all-round better footballer.
Yep Juventus would have payed around 8m but i reckon they will get Gilberto now for around 3m
Sublime goal there. Brilliantly set up by Leto, and in particular Lucas with a lovely back heel pass in the box - and nicely finished by Spearing too.
TigaSefi
11-10-2007, 20:09
They play like that in the reserves but not Full team = more experience = more time needed to play in the first team = patient!
Keiron99
11-10-2007, 20:27
we always had them, surely. Just that in the past they were the "hard man" ala Souness and McMahon now they are more subtle
I wouldn't say that. Both those players scored goals and had fantastic touch as well as being hard as nails. As Tommy Doc said of Souness: "He's the only man I know who can watch a whole episode of Little House On The Prairie without crying".
AdamBrunt
11-10-2007, 22:57
They play like that in the reserves but not Full team = more experience = more time needed to play in the first team = patient!
Or maybe because they have found their level ??
Or maybe because they have found their level ??
so you think leiva is a reserves level player?! did he not get player of the year in brazil last season or something... add to that he was the U-20 brazil capitano?!
when you sign very young 'starlets' you have to give them time, alot of time, taking into account language barriers, getting to grips with a new style of football, a new culture, and being away from family and friends... all these things have a mental affect. so its best to give them time to settle in, practice thier play for the reserves and let them see themselves and get shown where they have to change in their style of play and improve their reading of the english game and then they'll be ready... think that is a long drawn out version of what tigasefi said (i think) :)
AdamBrunt
12-10-2007, 08:27
so you think leiva is a reserves level player?! did he not get player of the year in brazil last season or something... add to that he was the U-20 brazil capitano?!
when you sign very young 'starlets' you have to give them time, alot of time, taking into account language barriers, getting to grips with a new style of football, a new culture, and being away from family and friends... all these things have a mental affect. so its best to give them time to settle in, practice thier play for the reserves and let them see themselves and get shown where they have to change in their style of play and improve their reading of the english game and then they'll be ready... think that is a long drawn out version of what tigasefi said (i think) :)
Obviously there are some people in the reserves who are only there to get them "up to speed" like, as you say, Leiva and Leto and arguably Itandje.
However, for the majority of the rest of that reserve team I would say have reached their level as far as LFC is concerned.
AdamBrunt
12-10-2007, 09:13
Hobbs is along way from the playing regularly for the first team at the moment IMO.
Even when Agger is injured, Rafa considers Hyypia and Arbeloa better options.
Keiron99
12-10-2007, 09:14
However, for the majority of the rest of that reserve team I would say have reached their level as far as LFC is concerned.
In which case, they may as well terminate all their contracts today.
So, Adam. How many reserve games have you actually watched this season?
I would say that Jack Hobbs was a year or so away at the moment.
I have to say that the Academy excites me more at the moment - there is some realy quality there.
But I do love the way that you totally write off the likes of Jordy Brouwer for example.
the problem with the 'top' clubs at the moment, is that reserves just don't get the time to develop due to the pressures on the clubs to succeed. How long ago is it since you produced a regular first team player from your reserves/youth ? 5-10 years ? It's exactly the same with United. There's just too much pressure to bring in the 'nearly there' from elsewhere, and apply the finishing touches. Hence the signing of players like Babel and Nani. The team being most successful of the 'top' teams is Arsenal, and even they are largely bringing in promising youth players from elsewhere rather than developing them from the beginning of their career.
TigaSefi
12-10-2007, 09:30
Well... he is Adam Brunt.....
AdamBrunt
12-10-2007, 09:30
So, Adam. How many reserve games have you actually watched this season?
I have seen all of the coverage on LFC TV so far.
I would say that Jack Hobbs was a year or so away at the moment.
According to some on here, Rafa won't be here in a year's time so maybe he'll get his chance. And, IMHO "a year or so away" is the same as what I said earlier.
I have to say that the Academy excites me more at the moment - there is some realy quality there.
If we're talking about the reserves - most of them have bought in by Rafa (as opposed to graduating up through the ranks). As has been known for months, Rafa holds the Academy in very little esteem at the moment.
But I do love the way that you totally write off the likes of Jordy Brouwer for example.
Interesting - but I don't ever remember saying that :shrug:
AdamBrunt
12-10-2007, 09:35
the problem with the 'top' clubs at the moment, is that reserves just don't get the time to develop due to the pressures on the clubs to succeed. How long ago is it since you produced a regular first team player from your reserves/youth ? 5-10 years ? It's exactly the same with United. There's just too much pressure to bring in the 'nearly there' from elsewhere, and apply the finishing touches. Hence the signing of players like Babel and Nani. The team being most successful of the 'top' teams is Arsenal, and even they are largely bringing in promising youth players from elsewhere rather than developing them from the beginning of their career.
Exactly.
For all the praise Arsenal get for their youth policy, very few of their youth players (if any) have been with the club from the start.
LFC reserves is now more a "getting up to speed" club for the youngsters being bought in rather than a step towards for the 1st team for Academy players.
Even evilsly has noticed that the last home grown youngster who made it all the way was Gerrard and that was over 5 years ago.
Obviously there are some people in the reserves who are only there to get them "up to speed" like, as you say, Leiva and Leto and arguably Itandje.
However, for the majority of the rest of that reserve team I would say have reached their level as far as LFC is concerned.
You don't mention Brouwer as being one of the ones only there "to get them up to speed" ergo - you are lumping him with the ones that have, according to you "reached their level".
AdamBrunt
12-10-2007, 09:53
You don't mention Brouwer as being one of the ones only there "to get them up to speed" ergo - you are lumping him with the ones that have, according to you "reached their level".
No.
I said there were some who were there to "get up to speed" and the majority of the rest had "reached their level" at LFC.
have we got a cup final coming up i don't know about :suspect:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7041303.stm
DarthPearce
12-10-2007, 12:08
have we got a cup final coming up i don't know about :suspect:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7041303.stm
Looks like he's speculating on being fit for the Carling Cup final in a couple of months time! ;)
Keiron99
12-10-2007, 12:35
You know, I'd forgotten Kewell still played for us (and I mean "played" in the loosest term). It has to be said, he has been a complete and utter waste of money.
AdamBrunt
12-10-2007, 12:43
Admittedly he's seems to be unfit most of the time but ... when he is fit, there is no doubting he is the best left winger at the club IMO.
saltysam
12-10-2007, 13:20
Admittedly he's seems to be unfit most of the time but ... when he is fit, there is no doubting he is the best left winger at the club IMO.when´s he ever proved that :shrug:even when fit i can count his decent LFC performances on one hand. He´s been a crushing disappointment.
Easily one of the worst signings for Liverpool in years, I'm glad Kewell didn't end up at united instead! :D
cheeseypuffs
12-10-2007, 13:37
The crucial part of Adam's statement is the "IMO" bit. Kewell has proved himself to be "in Adam's opinion" LFCs best left winger ;)
IMO he had the potential to be, and showed it on a couple of occasions when on a decent run of games, but on the whole he's been disappointment. IMO Babel has just as much claim to be potentially the best left winger at the club, but he needs to do the business regularly on the pitch, something which Kewell has not done.
saltysam
12-10-2007, 13:48
At least Kewell´s been consistent...played in 4 finals for us and has been injured/rubbish in them all :)
DarthPearce
12-10-2007, 13:53
In terms of contribution then Riise has been the best left midfielder at our club in recent times. Until the arrival of Babel you may argue Kewell was our most gifted but there's no way he deserves to get a 'best' of anything label....
I dread to think how much has been wasted on him in wages...
In terms of contribution then Riise has been the best left midfielder at our club in recent times. Until the arrival of Babel you may argue Kewell was our most gifted but there's no way he deserves to get a 'best' of anything label....
I dread to think how much has been wasted on him in wages...
I wouldn't be surprised if Leeds were still paying a part of them, given Risdale's financial wizardry when in charge.
In terms of contribution then Riise has been the best left midfielder at our club in recent times. Until the arrival of Babel you may argue Kewell was our most gifted but there's no way he deserves to get a 'best' of anything label....
best at being injured?
Well I presume he'll be getting fit to be flogged in Jan...
He's in the last year of his contract and I can't see Rafa hanging on to him. He's just too injury prone...
Now he just needs to be nursed through until Jan and get a couple of mill for him.
Newcastle are normally best at buying injury prone high wage earners, but now they've got a new owner we may have to tempt West Ham...
AdamBrunt
12-10-2007, 14:35
At least he was cheap :)
If Kewell is the best left-winger at Liverpool, I'd advise dipping into the transfer market. 'Cause if that's the best you've got, whew.
Much as I hate to agree with Adam, for an out and out left winger, he probably is the best at the club at the moment, but that is because we haven't really got anyone else.
Riise is a defender / midfielder
Babel is mainly a striker who can play left mid.
We know what happened to Gonzales
Leto isn't ready yet.
Who else is there / has there been whilst Kewell has been there?
saltysam
12-10-2007, 18:44
Pennant though predominantly a right winger would offer more on the left than Kewell nowadays. Kewell was gifted in his best days at Leeds but he´s shown virtually nothing since he´s been here. And if he goes in january we´ll get nowt for him,whatever small fee we got would be used to pay up his contract.
unrealnils
12-10-2007, 19:47
Gerrard and Kuyt could do a better job then Kewell they way he plays now even when fit.
Burned_Alive
12-10-2007, 19:55
Kewell should have gone years ago, hopefully we can get rid and actually fill the position properly.
cheeseypuffs
12-10-2007, 20:41
Torres is apparently injured will miss the derby :( (http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12024_2798000,00.html)
Burned_Alive
12-10-2007, 21:22
BBC says hes in doubt but may be fit:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7042670.stm
AdamBrunt
12-10-2007, 22:02
Didn't actually watch it but apparently they said on "This is Anfield" on LFC TV ... (1) Torres is already back in Liverpool and will be assessed tomorrow morning and (2) it is only a small tear and he'll be out for 6 days (not sure how they know 2 if he's not being assessed til tomorrow mind)
Also 3 games put back in December for TV coverage - and as a result we won't be playing on New Year's Day (http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N157313071012-1700.htm)
Another tidbit found while surfing the Official Site ... you may need to prove you went to Besiktas in order to qualify for Marseille away
PRIORITY FOR THE AWAY GROUP STAGE MATCH AGAINST OLYMPIQUE DE MARSEILLE
It is IMPORTANT for supporters traveling to Istanbul to retain their travel documents which will provide proof of travel, e.g. the original stub from the flight boarding pass(es) or original documentation from other means of travel, as these may be requested to be attached with the application forms for the away fixture in France. The documents may also be taken into consideration for any future matches within the UEFA Competitions
I'm sure that's never been mentioned for previous away games ??
Burned_Alive
13-10-2007, 09:40
Interesting, obviously so you can prove you actually went, rather than just bought the ticket
they must be clamping down on people credit collecting on their FC incase we get to moscow... our away support sold out for porto but there was no way it was full. this is why.
AdamBrunt
13-10-2007, 12:39
they must be clamping down on people credit collecting on their FC incase we get to moscow... our away support sold out for porto but there was no way it was full. this is why.
Looks like it - not sure how easy it is going to be to enforce though.
There are genuinely people who fly out on the day of the game and fly back the same night - what happens if you fully intended to go but couldn't due to work or illness for example ?
AdamBrunt
13-10-2007, 21:57
Watching Argentina v Chile on Sky Sports 1, I assume Mascherano will be playing for them midweek which means either Alonso is fit or it's going to be Gerrard & Momo on Saturday.
saltysam
14-10-2007, 18:54
Why does Rafa automatically rule out Masch after these midweek games yet Fergie has no problem playing Tevez :shrug: as Masch is our only centre midfielder showing any semblance of his true form he´ll be a big loss next saturday. Was hoping for him and Alonso in the middle with Gerrard out on the right.
Watching Argentina v Chile on Sky Sports 1, I assume Mascherano will be playing for them midweek which means either Alonso is fit or it's going to be Gerrard & Momo on Saturday.
At least Babel will be well rested for the game.
AdamBrunt
15-10-2007, 08:26
At least Babel will be well rested for the game.
But will he remember to wake up on time ;)
No wonder he didn't start the last 12.45pm kick off.
AdamBrunt
15-10-2007, 09:04
Why does Rafa automatically rule out Masch after these midweek games yet Fergie has no problem playing Tevez :shrug: as Masch is our only centre midfielder showing any semblance of his true form he´ll be a big loss next saturday. Was hoping for him and Alonso in the middle with Gerrard out on the right.
To be fair to Rafa - I don't think he has definitely ruled Masch out yet.
I was going on what he said last time - but in that case, I think, Argentina were playing a day later and we were playing Pompey away rather than Everton (ie the squad left for Pompey on the Friday whereas this time they'll be a training session on Friday instead).
DarthPearce
15-10-2007, 09:30
Van Basten has had it in for Babel since he joined Liverpool against VB's advice. The second oversleeping incident was Babel missing the start of dinner - hardly crucial stuff IMO.
I think Alonso's fitness level will determine the starting lineup against Everton - if he's fit then I can see Gerrard and Alonso starting in the middle, if not it will be Mascherano and Gerrard.
Van Basten has had it in for Babel since he joined Liverpool against VB's advice.
Are you sure that wasn't Kromkamp you're thinking of? Van Basten described Babel as "the next Thierry Henry".
DarthPearce
15-10-2007, 10:16
Are you sure that wasn't Kromkamp you're thinking of? Van Basten described Babel as "the next Thierry Henry".
No - Babel talked about how VB tried to talk him out of coming to Liverpool and how he told him that it would affect his chances of playing for the national team if he came to Liverpool and didn't play regularly.
TigaSefi
15-10-2007, 11:03
No - Babel talked about how VB tried to talk him out of coming to Liverpool and how he told him that it would affect his chances of playing for the national team if he came to Liverpool and didn't play regularly.
Petty excuse then!
Peter UK
15-10-2007, 11:42
Pretty standard though ain't it??
Not playing regularly = harder to get into national side.
Even our own Mad German has been warned...
DarthPearce
15-10-2007, 12:07
Pretty standard though ain't it??
Not playing regularly = harder to get into national side.
Even our own Mad German has been warned...
It depends - the way I read the article it was as if Van Basten just wanted to put him off coming to England. You could argue that his standard of play and experience is likely to rise playing for a larger club like Liverpool (albeit not starting every match) than it is staying in the dutch league. It seems that Van Basten has something against Dutch players moving abroad (he asid a very similar thing to Jan Kronkamp) rather than it about being how regularly they player played. :shrug:
DarthPearce
17-10-2007, 13:38
2 days without a post!!
It looks like we could have a few players back from injury just in time for the derby - Alonso is 50-50;
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N157337071016-1415.htm
Torres is making good progress and even Kewell may be available!! ;
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N157340071016-1433.htm
bruce-leroy
17-10-2007, 13:59
Kewell did pretty well the last time he featured in a derby. ;)
DarthPearce
18-10-2007, 09:34
Another good article by Paul Tomkins on the official website - some good food for thought and points to debate for those who look back at past glories and compare the team of today to back then;
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/NG157303071017-1604.htm
Another good article by Paul Tomkins on the official website - some good food for thought and points to debate for those who look back at past glories and compare the team of today to back then;
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/NG157303071017-1604.htm
Excellent article that, will make no difference to the nay sayers though. The problem is Liverpool have been starved of success for so long in the league that it has become the Holy Grail and having to watch Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal romp home with it for years is a bitter pill to swallow. So when the team starts to lose out on the top the "fans" call for a new manager. Will be interesting to see how this season pans out as I think Rafa has lost all the good will the CL win gave him and if the team don't pick up the pace soon the boos will get louder (which is ******* disgraceful, I don't know how any fan can boo their own team :shrug: ).
Gerrard is in a bit of a funk at the moment. It's not for lack of effort though, he was all over the pitch yesterday he just didn't do much. Lets hope he gets himself out of it soon, maybe Rafa should move him to the wing again, he seems to play better when he is ****** off about being out of position.
I reckon we'll go with this team on Saturday:
Reina
Finnan
Carra
Hyypia
Arbeloa
Benayoun
Gerrard
Mascherano
Babel
Torres (if fit)
Kuyt
You know Everton have been working on their entire anti-Liverpool team all this week so we've got to be ready to match their intensity. I can only think of Lescott and Neville who are likely to start but have been away on Internationals duty so they'll have been well prepared. I can really see a response on Saturday to the recent form that will really send a message ahead of 2 more massive games against Besiktas and Arsenal!
are we having a new game on this thread: Fantasy Rafa?!
Who keeps running score of most selections right?
Are Tomkins books any good?
as much as i like tomkins' articles... they are merely a temporary distraction to the current problem... yes his stats and positive outlook are what all of us as fans should be thinking but i think all would agree there is a nagging voice at the back of our heads saying: "end this rotation system", atleast for just a while...... and if results don't improve- then go back to the rotational way and we'll accept we are not the title challenging team we thought we were... if results improve stickin with an 11 week in week out (atleast for a while) then rafa accept you were wrong, and get on with winning. and shave that thing aff your face.
DarthPearce
18-10-2007, 11:06
as much as i like tomkins' articles... they are merely a temporary distraction to the current problem... yes his stats and positive outlook are what all of us as fans should be thinking but i think all would agree there is a nagging voice at the back of our heads saying: "end this rotation system", atleast for just a while...... and if results don't improve- then go back to the rotational way and we'll accept we are not the title challenging team we thought we were... if results improve stickin with an 11 week in week out (atleast for a while) then rafa accept you were wrong, and get on with winning. and shave that thing aff your face.
I'm not as convinced about his argument on rotation either but his points on winning stats and comapring old and new are good ones IMO.
Jonnyrepp
18-10-2007, 11:39
Tomkins's books are worth a read, as long as you bear in mind that they were written "of the time", meaning just after excellent seasons.
saltysam
18-10-2007, 16:31
i don´t think any rightminded supporter wants Rafa out...but come the end of the season and if we were miles off the pace again questions would have to be asked. hopefully we´ve had our bad spell and can start kicking on again saturday.it´s vital we win this and the CL midweek game. if Alonso´s fit i´d definitely use Gerrard on the right.
It's clear Rafa's main aim is still the CL, he wants to become more than just a Liverpool legend, he wants to become a european legend and that means winning European cups, at least once more.
Talk of getting rid is complete madness considering the squad he inherited was anything but world class!
AdamBrunt
18-10-2007, 17:59
It's clear Rafa's main aim is still the CL
I don't think that is clear at all. He has said many times this season (and during the summer) that the title is the main priority.
unrealnils
18-10-2007, 18:01
brunty is a comedian
brunty is a comedian
brunty is a comedian
brunty is a comedian
brunty is a comedian
brunty is a comedian
Yet he rotates like hell resting his top players before each CL game :nuts:
AdamBrunt
18-10-2007, 18:53
Yet he rotates like hell resting his top players before each CL game :nuts:
Of course he does ... I assume playing Gerrard, Carragher, Finnan and Torres in the Carling Cup is part of his master plan to win the CL.
The truth is Liverpool have nothing to prove to anyone on the European stage - the league title is the one the fans, the club and Rafa want this season.
AdamBrunt
18-10-2007, 18:55
i don´t think any rightminded supporter wants Rafa out...but come the end of the season and if we were miles off the pace again questions would have to be asked. hopefully we´ve had our bad spell and can start kicking on again saturday.it´s vital we win this and the CL midweek game. if Alonso´s fit i´d definitely use Gerrard on the right.
Question is ... if there is any doubt over Torres does he rest him on Saturday and play him in midweek and against Arsenal ? No doubt if he does, he'll be accused of bizarre tactics and the like.
my guess at the lineup the mora:
reina, finnan, carra, sami, arbeloa, gerrard, alonso, mascherano, babel, kuyt, voronin
(would like to see if gerrard can find his form on the right, and hope torres starts [for my FF team] but think rafa being rafa will rest him so as not to risk him for the CL game :nono:)
if i was the gaffer i would play:
----------reina
finnan-carra-sami-arbeloa
pennant-gerrard-masch-riise
-------babel
-----------torres
AdamBrunt
19-10-2007, 12:44
some fairly impressive stats from the BBC's preview of tomorrow's game:
4. Averaging two points per game (16 after eight). It is their best start since 2002-03 when they finished fifth. But a higher finish has been attained in three of the four subsequent seasons, after inferior starts.
6. Yet to concede the opening goal in a Premier League match.
7. Let in just one league goal in the first half, and the only club not to have gone in at half time trailing in a Premier League match this season.
8. Not beaten in four league games on the road this term (three wins, one draw). This is the best "away" form in the Premier League.
AdamBrunt
19-10-2007, 12:46
(would like to see if gerrard can find his form on the right, and hope torres starts [for my FF team] but think rafa being rafa will rest him so as not to risk him for the CL game :nono:)
if i was the gaffer i would play:
----------reina
finnan-carra-sami-arbeloa
pennant-gerrard-masch-riise
-------babel
-----------torres
:?:
:?:
based on what i think rafa might field... i would like steg to play wide right. but if i could choose the starting XI i would play him in the middle still. probably doesnt make much sense!
thinking about it i would also consider playing:
----------reina
finnan carra arbeloa riise
gerrard alonso masch yossi
------babel
-----------torres
(although arbeloa in CB might be dangerous)
AdamBrunt
19-10-2007, 14:19
I think rafa still believes Gerrard on the right is better - though I don't remember him playing him there yet this season.
Hyypia or Arbeloa in at CB is tricky ... Sami, IIRC, played both of Finland's games last week and is probably knackered and there is a rumour that Johnson is fit for the game so ....
saltysam
19-10-2007, 17:36
i watched some of the 2nd half of Finland´s game here in Spain the other night...Sami wasn´t playing,don´t know if he played the first half or not.
some fairly impressive stats from the BBC's preview of tomorrow's game:
Yawn.
Torres didn't make it :(
Reina, Riise, Finnan, Hyypia, Carragher, Benayoun, Mascherano, Gerrard, Sissoko, Voronin, Kuyt
Subs: Itandje, Crouch, Pennant, Babel, Lucas
Big blow that :(
BlueDwarf
20-10-2007, 11:37
Rafa has just said Gerrard will play "in midfield..in the middle...he will have freedom".
Can't wait to see what weird and wonderful formation we will use today...
poissony
20-10-2007, 11:39
Think it was always going to be too soon, same for Alonso.
Big match for Sissoko, he's been terrible at time this season. Lots of experience in the side but surprised Babel didn't get a start (again). I know it's the derby but he's not being given much of a chance for a while now.
BlueDwarf
20-10-2007, 11:52
Voronin misses a half chance. Then he skies it.
Really, this is the best we could get?
Voronin misses a half chance. Then he skies it.
Really, this is the best we could get?
First chance saved...2nd chanced bouncing up...
And I bet he's been one of the best free signings in the league so far...
**** me...was just about to type that we need to sort out our right wing as Lescott has all the room in the world...
Quality own goal Sami :(
TigaSefi
20-10-2007, 12:27
Hyypia needs to sort himself out. Everton are banging in crosses and we're failing to clear our lines EVERY TIME..
Stevie G
20-10-2007, 12:28
That was coming, even if it was an OG. We're letting them pressurize us too much, we need to get some control of the game. Far too narrow in their half too
TigaSefi
20-10-2007, 12:33
Tell that to the manager!! :oh-hum:
BlueDwarf
20-10-2007, 12:35
45 minutes of rubbish football.
TigaSefi
20-10-2007, 12:39
45 minutes of rubbish football.
It been absolute rubbish all season. Nothing new there. Derby was only a bright spot but that cos Derby was **** poor that day.
Stevie G
20-10-2007, 12:44
Tell that to the manager!! :oh-hum:
He won't listen to me..... he only listens to the voices in his head...! :cuckoo: :help:
BlueDwarf
20-10-2007, 12:56
No changes at half time.
Obviously the lack of creativity, narrow midfield, and strikers being dragged all over the pitch defending is what Rafa wants to see.
Pen. Awful stuff from Hibbert.
pen red card...
Come on...put it in...
LouBarlow
20-10-2007, 13:00
Yeah that was a penalty :lol:
BlueDwarf
20-10-2007, 13:01
Pretty obvious pen. :thinking:
Hope we see some changes. A Mediocre Liverpool Vs 10 man defending Everton will be even less entertaining than the 1sty half.
Stevie G
20-10-2007, 13:03
Yeah, I;m biased but I think so. The initial shirt holding was just outside, but it looked from the far side that it was his knee on Gerard's thigh that lost his balance and that was inside. We've got to take this opportunity now, keep calm and get hold of the game.
Stevie G
20-10-2007, 13:04
Riise should have scored, plenty of time to control that
Clear shirt pulling for the pen. Although Gray doesn't seem so sure despite being so convinced when we conceded a penalty at Pompey for the same infringement. :thinking:
Burned_Alive
20-10-2007, 13:05
It was a foul, but wasnt inside the box i dont think. Hard for the ref for sure.
Really need to move the formation to attack now and bring on someone like Pennant or Babel
Riise had all the time in the world then...
At least Gerrard took the ball on and had a go...
Take off Sissoko get Pennant or Babel on and go for it.
LouBarlow
20-10-2007, 13:12
Nice to see Gerrard appealing for his fellow pro to get sent off for that tackle too - what a gent he is.
Nice to see Gerrard appealing for his fellow pro to get sent off for that tackle too - what a gent he is.Cos Chelski never do that ;)
LouBarlow
20-10-2007, 13:17
I'm talking about Liverpool. Just because Chelsea do it doesn't mean it's right.
WTF is Rafa on???
Two defensive midfielders stay on and Gerrard off
BlueDwarf
20-10-2007, 13:20
Steg looks shocked to be taken off.
Mascherano and Sissoko stay on.
Rafa obviously happy with a draw against 10-man Everton.
I'm talking about Liverpool. Just because Chelsea do it doesn't mean it's right.I agree entirely, but if they don't book players for doing it then it'll never change. I'm sure even the nicest of people might do it in the heat of a game :shrug:
Trolling on another team's thread isn't right, but supporters of all the teams do it from time to time :oh-hum:
Obviously not smoking the same stuff MAC's on ;)
TigaSefi
20-10-2007, 13:21
Rafa lost it now!! taking off Gerrard against a 10 man everton ? **** off!
LouBarlow
20-10-2007, 13:21
I agree entirely, but if they don't book players for doing it then it'll never change. I'm sure even the nicest of people might do it in the heat of a game :shrug:
Trolling on another team's thread isn't right, but supporters of all the teams do it from time to time :oh-hum:
Give over, I'm commenting on the game not trolling. Look in the Chelsea thread if you want evidence of that.
Nice to see Rafa has got in the spirit by dying his tongue red :lol: What has he been sucking?
BlueDwarf
20-10-2007, 13:21
I'm talking about Liverpool. Just because Chelsea do it doesn't mean it's right.
No, but because Chelsea do it, it does mean you can't come in here moaning about it.
Another classy effort from Voronin :lol: :lol:
We lose this game after Gerrard being subbed and Rafa will take a mountain load of ****...
Only team this benefits is Everton...they must take heart from him walking off...
LouBarlow
20-10-2007, 13:25
No, but because Chelsea do it, it does mean you can't come in here moaning about it.
No it doesn't.
The guy is the England captain - he should be setting an example.
Like any class chess player, Rafa thinks ahead ;), resting him for the midweek CL game :lol:
Peter UK
20-10-2007, 13:26
The guy is the England captain - he should be setting an example.
A joke, surely :D
TigaSefi
20-10-2007, 13:27
Er John Terry is the England Captain! ;)
Sissoko should have done better.
Jesus...why do they all shoot instead of laying on an easy pass...
Numerous occasions we making the wrong decision in the box
LouBarlow
20-10-2007, 13:30
Er John Terry is the England Captain! ;)
Not for the next month.
You know what I mean though. The guy has a high profile and is worshipped by kids all over the land. Asking the ref to send off a fellow pro is the lowest of the low in my opinion, and as annoying as players brandishing fake cards and diving.
No it doesn't.
The guy is the England captain - he should be setting an example.
Funny I thought the England captain was the guy in blue, last seen trying to snatch the card out of the ref's hand :shrug:
LouBarlow
20-10-2007, 13:32
Funny I thought the England captain was the guy in blue, last seen trying to snatch the card out of the ref's hand :shrug:
See post #203
TigaSefi
20-10-2007, 13:34
Still can't believe Gerrard been taken off!!
BlueDwarf
20-10-2007, 13:35
Pennant on for Sissoko. For 3 minutes.
EH?
Benitez must be on some form of crack, does he just pick his substitutions out of a hat?
Not for the next month.
You know what I mean though. The guy has a high profile and is worshipped by kids all over the land. Asking the ref to send off a fellow pro is the lowest of the low in my opinion, and as annoying as players brandishing fake cards, diving and trying to snatch cards out of the ref's hand.Fixed for you ;)
LouBarlow
20-10-2007, 13:37
Yeah they are all as bad as each other - never said otherwise :shrug:
TigaSefi
20-10-2007, 13:38
Benitez must be on some form of crack, does he just pick his substitutions out of a hat?
Believe me the manager will go before Gerrard will go. We could have won this game in the 2nd half.
Stevie G
20-10-2007, 13:38
Well done Steptoe! Gotta put this in!
Quality goalkeeping by Phil Neville :D
penalty red card...
come on..
LouBarlow
20-10-2007, 13:38
Lol @ Phil Steptoe :lol:
:lol: @ the keeping too :nuts:
So so lucky. Benitez managerial performance today was discraceful.
BlueDwarf
20-10-2007, 13:39
Neville off! YEss!! hahaha!
Kuyyyt!
3points STOLEN despite Rafa's best effort.
Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
TigaSefi
20-10-2007, 13:39
Lol ******* Daylight Robbery!!
Stevie G
20-10-2007, 13:39
Get in!
oh yes!!! get in there. Recent bad performances need to change if we are to be taken seriously.
Whats going on with Benitez's tongue?!
Made up...
Gotta love winnning the derby...
Well it was Lucas I suppose who won the pen, so Rafa can justify his mad substitution.
Big grin on my face and it'll be there all week...in Brum. Still I have a few Bluenoses to give it to after last season.
BlueDwarf
20-10-2007, 13:41
Awful performance from Rafa today.
Pretty clear he is not the manager to bring the title back to Anfield.
Def a pen on Lescott.
Stevie G
20-10-2007, 13:41
Cor! F me, we've had a couple of lucky decisions today!
******* fantastic - no sweeter win than that :clap:
Awful performance from Rafa today.
Pretty clear he is not the manager to bring the title back to Anfield.
Def a pen on Lescott.
:lol: - do you just watch Liverpool for some sort of personal pain? Rafa got it bang on in the end - Lucas was a difference maker
r.vernon1
20-10-2007, 13:42
LOL at that Everton fan in the crowd who was winding up the two Liverpool fans in front of him after Hyypia's own goal.
His face after the second penno, priceless....:lol:
Neville, the dirty cheating git. People will no doubt rip Gerrard, but what about that.
However, we have won the game with two penalties. Clattenburg won us that game, Everton deserved two penalites as well. Not good enough. poor substitutions. Poor tactics (Sissoko staying on as long as he did). Player's who can't finish.
Shocking.
Everton should have had a pen at the end though...
But they can sod off...
LouBarlow
20-10-2007, 13:43
Well the ref's blood is red, let's leave it there ;)
Lescott was robbed at the end there - how was that not a penalty but Gerrard's was? :lol:
One of the more fortunate wins of the season. What the ref was up to I've no idea. Liverpool got out of jail here, bigtime. Both sides fought well, but the ref has made the difference here.
Everton should have had two penalties, the second of which was the more obvious one of the two. Carrager's face when he had pulled Lescott down said it all - guilty as sin.
TigaSefi
20-10-2007, 13:44
lol @ David Moyes!!
Shocking.
I'll take wins like that than dominating draws :oh-hum:
mcallisterian
20-10-2007, 13:44
deffo PK deserved at the end. shcoking ref'd descision!
andybhoy
20-10-2007, 13:45
Are you lot putting a line on the lottery tonight? Seriously, you can't lose (well, not if Clatts is picking the numbers)
;)
Best team lost today - unlucky Everton and a clear penalty at the end.
We are a ******* shambles and the manager has clearly lost it.
Peter UK
20-10-2007, 13:45
I'm sorry but your Brunty simply cannot complain about another decision all season after some of the ones you boys have had :lol:
One dodgy one against Chelsea doesn't give infinite credits!
WTF is Rafa on?
Hmmmm that ref might of had a few pennies on a Liverpool win
I'm sorry but your Brunty simply cannot complain about another decision all season after some of the ones you boys have had :lol:
He will don't worry.
TigaSefi
20-10-2007, 13:47
Didn't carragher just fall over ? ;)
:lol: ...well if any of you pool fans honestly believe you can win the league with that team and manager...land of cuckoo is where you live...and to see you celebrate like you did summed it all up for me .....:nuts:
Whats going on with Benitez's tongue?!
Some kind of drug because only a crack head would manage a team the way he did today.
andybhoy
20-10-2007, 13:48
We are a ******* shambles and the manager has clearly lost it.
So has Carragher. He went absolutely mental today - should have had 3 yellows. (In fact i see little difference between a rugby tackle in the box, and handling off the line).
Best bit though was when he had his first big rant, and the ref called him over - he realised he'd overstepped the mark, so he pretended he couldn't hear him over the volume of the fans :lol:
Burned_Alive
20-10-2007, 13:48
Whats going on with Benitez's tongue?!
He's red through and through :p
:lol: ...well if any of you pool fans honestly believe you can win the league with that team and manager...land of cuckoo is where you live...and to see you celebrate like you did summed it all up for me .....:nuts:
Can't argue with that. Oh and I don't think we will win the league. Rafa clearly wants another CL. :oh-hum:
I'm sorry but your Brunty simply cannot complain about another decision all season after some of the ones you boys have had :lol:WTF he's not our Brunty :p
So has Carragher. He went absolutely mental today - should have had 3 yellows. (In fact i see little difference between a rugby tackle in the box, and handling off the line).
Best bit though was when he had his first big rant, and the ref called him over - he realised he'd overstepped the mark, so he pretended he couldn't hear him over the volume of the fans :lol:
Carragher like Gerrard has been shocking so far this season.
BlueDwarf
20-10-2007, 13:49
and to see you celebrate like you did summed it all up for me .....:nuts:
It's almost like we came back from 1-0 down to win a derby game...
So has Carragher. He went absolutely mental today - should have had 3 yellows.
I don't know how he ended up staying on the pitch as he should have been booked for his clear outburst at the ref and would have walked at the end when he was finally booked not to mention the clear foul at the death.
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