View Full Version : B&W 603 S3's Any Good?? (UPDATED)
Sheepking
18-01-2002, 18:09
Im considering upgrading from a Kef Q Series setup (Q35, Q95c and Q15) to the new B&W 603 s3, 601 s3 (Surround) and LCR 60 s3 (Centre).
Now this will cost me around £750ish after selling off my current speakers. I really like the look of them, and im going to listen to the speakers tomorrow. I also have a legit reason for upgrade (the Q35's are too small, and will be obstructed by the new suite when its delivered).
So I've got the wifes go ahead, but im not sure what to do. are they really worth the upgrade??
Opinions please
:)
PS Sub not an issue as i have a REL Q200
Urban Tiger
18-01-2002, 21:07
Hi Sheepking,
If you check the 'pictures of your Home Cinema' thread at the top of the page, you will see a pic of my new 603s3's and LCR60 centre.
They were an upgrade from a pair of Mission M74's and Tannoy MC. What do I think? Su -bloody-perb. Obviously can't compare them to the Q35's but compared to what I had, they are light years ahead.
Bass is incredibly low and controlled and the treble as so sweet. You clearly need to have a listen but I can't believe you wouldn't be impressed. :)
Radiohead
18-01-2002, 21:50
Sheepking
I can only agree with Urban Tiger. Although I'm not lucky enough to have the 603's, I'm running the 601 S3's up front along with the LCR60 S3. I did have them partnered with a Yamaha DSP-A5 amp, but have today taken delivery of a Marantz SR7200. If I was pleased with them before, I'm over the moon now. They're taut, fast, full of slam and agility. The treble is so sweet and lucid, whilst the bass is controlled and full of rythym.
Audition obviously - but they are top performers.
:)
Yes, B&W make some good speakers, but so do KEF. I do not think you will hear a huge improvement, but perhaps a different sound - fuller but not necessarily better. If you like the sound of your existing speakers perhaps audition KEF's new range.
Sheepking
19-01-2002, 00:16
Originally posted by Beddie
Yes, B&W make some good speakers, but so do KEF. I do not think you will hear a huge improvement, but perhaps a different sound - fuller but not necessarily better. If you like the sound of your existing speakers perhaps audition KEF's new range.
I like my Kefs (although not convinced by the Q95c). The new kef Q's are ugly looking but they may sound great. I'll give them a listen as well.
At the prices of the 600 series, there's no shortage of decent alternatives.
Comparing Mission M74s to 603s is all very well, but remember the 603s cost about £550, whereas the M74s are available for around £200 - not exactly a like for like comparison, and while I obviously haven't compared Urban Tiger's old and new systems myself, I suspect it's the substitution of the MC with an LCR60 which has brought about the biggest improvement.
Personally I think the 600 series is a bit overpriced - at £600 I would expect more than a vinyl wrapped box. Good speakers soundwise though, but as I said, at similar prices (or less) there are plenty of alternatives.
Only you can decide whether it's worth the money to upgrade (or is it a sidegrade) - personally I doubt it is, but it's not my house, my money or my ears.
Incidentally, B&W recommend the LCR600, and not the 60 to match the 603. As you already have a REL sub, why not look at the 602.5, coupled with the LCR60.
Also, check out Tannoy Revolution, and Mission 77 series (which are on half price offer at the mo). Both are cheaper, and both feature real wood veneer too. If vinyl is fine, then have a listen to Yamaha's NS200C as well - you may be surprised.
Urban Tiger
19-01-2002, 11:55
Mike, thought I would answer some of your points.
The comparison of M74's to 603's is absolutely valid as that is what I just upgraded from. The original question was about whether you should upgrade, I did and I'm very pleased. I haven't had Q35's which are more expensive than the M74's so the asker must test this for themselves.
Does the LCR60 make the biggest difference to the system? Not in my opinion. I can say that because music is so much more pleasurable. I can now listen to Madonna's 'Music' as the 603's tie the bass down and provide a fuller listening experience. The clarity of the tracks on Bee Gees 'This is Where I came In are breathtaking. The M74's, although good speakers, could not control the bass to this degree and certainly could not compete for clarity.
I also read on B&W's website that the LCR600 should be used with the 603's. Tried them both and could tell absolutely no difference. Getting them home, I have not adjusted the centre any louder than the fronts and it sounds 100% at home. I expect if you had a very large room the LCR600 might be needed.
I have listened to the Revolution series when I bought the Missions, and preferred the Missions (nothing to do with price). I also listened to the 773e's and matching centre when I bought the B&W's, and preferred the B&W's. Whether they are vinyl or veneer is not important to me. Do they look good, and do they sound good are my only criteria.
I'm no audiophile. When a friend asked me to describe my new speakers, compared to the old ones, the only word I could find was 'lush'. Very technical I know :)
One last bit. For HC use, the biggest differnce is the slam. I have turned my sub off for some movies as its just not needed. And movies such as Moulin Rouge just fill the room with sound, which the M74's never did.
For the £510 I paid for them, I love 'em BUT test all alternatives before making any decisions. :)
All I was trying to say is that you would bloody well hope 603s sound better than M74s, or why are they well over twice the price.
And as you made reference to the fact that you replaced both your main fronts and centre speaker, I obviously assumed you were referring to AV performance, not two channel stereo, when you said compared to what I had, they are light years ahead. :p :p
Anyway, not worth arguing about.
We both think B&W 600 speakers are good - we just disagree about whether they are worth the price!
Sheepking
20-01-2002, 00:15
Well its time to post the sorry tale.....
I listned to them and decided i wanted them, So my wife and i make a 5Hr round trip to Newcastle to get them from superfi. This saved us £130 on sevenoaks prices so after petrol £100.
Got them home, set them up with video essentials and noticed the walk around the room in voice sounds funny, when the voice hits the right front speaker. The polarity tests had been fine so it wasn't that. checked the wiring, (bought QED Silver anniversary BIwire excellent cable but tough to cut and work with) and its not that either.
Swapped the fronts over, and the problem moves. Faulty speaker!!!:brickwall :brickwall :brickwall
When you move the balance to the faulty side it sounds very bassy with no top end. If you put your ear near the tweeter at the top nothing is coming from it, but when you do this with the working one you get sound from it. so i guess the tweeter is faulty.
My problem now is how to get it exchanged. Will B&W do it? Will my local sevenoaks exchange it as they area B&W dealer? or god forbid another trip to Newcastle......:mad:
Its all down to interpritation of another country as B&W say if you use the speakers in another country than they were purchased, you return them to your local B&W dealer. So if they class Scotland as another country then i can hopefully get a local dealer to exchange them.
Sorry for coming in late on this convo, but I recently (about 2 months ago now) bought almost the same package you are going for except I went for the LCR600 instead of the LCR60 for the centre speaker... I felt that the size of the 600 more closely matched the 603's up front.
Anyway i'm 110% happy with my speakers and would recommend them to anybody!
Urban Tiger
20-01-2002, 08:45
Sheepking, sorry to hear about your problems, its so damn annoying when something doesnt work.
What price did you pay for the 603's? I'm guessing £470? With petrol £500? Assuming thats your calculation, I paid £510 from Sevenoaks. Figured out a while ago its sometimes better to pay a bit more coz you know when something goes wrong its an easy fix. Sevenoaks are normally fairly good at discounting with a bit of bartering as well. I told my one I had already been given a 10% discount by another dealer so he gave me 15% immediately, thats good service.
Hope you get them sorted soon as they really are very good speakers :)
Sheepking
20-01-2002, 09:39
Originally posted by Urban Tiger
Sheepking, sorry to hear about your problems, its so damn annoying when something doesnt work.
What price did you pay for the 603's? I'm guessing £470? With petrol £500?
£530. Sevenoaks up here have NO competition so they charge the RRP of £600. The other savings were made from the centre and the surround speakers.
im totally annoyed with the whole thing.
Urban Tiger
20-01-2002, 10:13
Originally posted by Sheepking
im totally annoyed with the whole thing.
Good luck with getting them changed, you'll soon forget about it when they are singing in the front room :)
Why not just very carefully pop the tweeter out - you may find that it's just a wire that's come off. If it isn't, nothing lost (just make sure you don't mark the fixings).
I wouldn't be too upset - they all get a duffer from the factory now and again, but it is a bit annoying all the same!!
Sheepking
20-01-2002, 15:55
Originally posted by MikeK
I wouldn't be too upset - they all get a duffer from the factory now and again, but it is a bit annoying all the same!!
Especially after a 5hr round trip and a 2hr rebuild.
Anyway, the story goes on, Sevenoaks in Glasgow are contacting B&W tomorrow to find out what they can do (hopefully they will send a replacement pair to sevenoaks, and they can give me the pair they have in stock). the manager isn't sure what they'll say though. He did ask me to take my speakers in and he has them now, so i imagine thats what'll happen. Surely B&W wont demand i drive to Newcastle again........???:(
The Sevenoaks manager was shocked that i managed to get 603 s3 for £530. Just shows what happens when you have a monopoly over one area.
Will post tomorrow what happens.
Sheepking
21-01-2002, 17:52
Well the problem still isnt resolved.
Sevenoaks Glasgow have the tweeter in stock but refused to fit it, said they had a new set in stock yesterday then changed their minds. B&W were also useless, first of all saying they would exchange, then send the part to sevenoaks to repair but that would take 3-10 days.
Superfi however, organised the speakers to be collected and send us a new pair. they'll be picked up tomorrow and the new pair delivered on wednesday.
So dont follow what the B&W website says (take them to your local B&W dealer).
Im starting to wish i'd never bought them.......:(
Urban Tiger
21-01-2002, 18:35
Originally posted by Sheepking
Im starting to wish i'd never bought them.......:(
One bad experience doesn't make them bad, it could have happened to any speaker you bought. I hate to think how much things in boxes are thrown around.
Good luck with the swap and let us know what you think when they are installed. Chin up :D
Sheepking
21-01-2002, 21:18
Originally posted by Urban Tiger
One bad experience doesn't make them bad, it could have happened to any speaker you bought. I hate to think how much things in boxes are thrown around.
Good luck with the swap and let us know what you think when they are installed. Chin up :D
Its more the hastle of companys (especially sevenoaks lies) that annoyed me.
Can't wait to get the new ones, i just hope they work.
Also, B&W told my wife that the 603 S3 have sold loads more than they expected and a such they are out of stock for a couple of weeks whilst more are manafactured.
Urban Tiger
22-01-2002, 05:50
Yep, can understand the hassle is very frustrating :mad:
As you said earlier, lack of competition can sometimes mean you get a 'don't give a damn' attitude. The Sevenoaks I bought mine from give excellent service, and good discounts, but thats probably because there is another hi-fi shop (Audio-T) directly opposite them, so they have to be good :)
As regards availability, my daughter squashed the dust caps on my 603's, I've been waiting 2 weeks for replacements to come in and was also told there is a very high demand at the moment, so its probably true.
Sheepking
25-01-2002, 19:56
Ok
First of all, Superfi forgot to send the speakers, so they didnt leave manchester till Wednesday. Promised they'd be sent on Tuesday, didn't happen.
Then on Thursday one of the speakers arrives, no sign of the other one. Phone parcel force who have no idea were it is. Eventually the find out only one was scanned into Edinburgh that morning. The second one arrived today as it had been held up in Manchester. The Reason?!? It had 3 different addresses on it, so parcel force didnt know were it was meant to be going.
After opening both speakers i have confirmed they have been out the box before (no staples in top of box, accessory pack open and packing back on wrong way). So they've been on display.
I'll never use Superfi again. this has been hassle from start to finnish and they have got things wrong every step of the way.
Anyway Urban Tiger you were right. they sound great in the lounge. However do you have the foam bungs fitted?? I had to do this as the bass was overpowering. I expect its because it only a small-medium sized room.
Urban Tiger
25-01-2002, 20:27
Foam bungs? Absolutely! They are rammed in there tighter than an ants chuffer, which makes the bass taut and controlled...lovely! :)
Getting my cones fixed in the morning at Sevenoaks who are doing it at cost of parts only. Its a shame your Sevenoaks don't budge on price coz the one down here is exellent.
Sheepking
25-01-2002, 20:49
Got some questions for you tiger...
Has the sound changed much since you first installed them?
Have you Bi Wired them and what cable did you use? I used QED silver Anniversary Biwire.
Did you get a pen or a Scabby keyring when you registered them online??
are sevenoaks going to fit the parts whilst you wait??
Urban Tiger
25-01-2002, 21:04
Originally posted by Sheepking
Got some questions for you tiger...
Has the sound changed much since you first installed them?
Have you Bi Wired them and what cable did you use? I used QED silver Anniversary Biwire.
Did you get a pen or a Scabby keyring when you registered them online??
are sevenoaks going to fit the parts whilst you wait??
It has changed slightly. They sounded a little bright and have begun to settle nicely.
Havent registered them yet, must get around to doing it.
I have biwired them with Cable Talk 2.1 but strangely enough I have some Silver Anniversery biwire arriving tomorrow after reading a stack of good reviews. Thought I would give it a go, what do you think of it?
yes, Sevenoaks will do it on the spot in the morning as long as I get there for when they open. Fair enough on a Saturday.
Sheepking
25-01-2002, 22:12
Originally posted by Urban Tiger
I have biwired them with Cable Talk 2.1 but strangely enough I have some Silver Anniversery biwire arriving tomorrow after reading a stack of good reviews. Thought I would give it a go, what do you think of it?
I like it a lot, but its the first time i've biwired.
Are you using the foam bungs in the centre and surrounds as well??
Urban Tiger
26-01-2002, 06:28
No bungs in the centre, and my surrounds are Tannoy MX1's which I don't bung either.
The one thing I have noticed is the difference in sound the little plastic feet make to the centre, do you use them?
Sheepking
26-01-2002, 09:22
I am using the feet on the centre. did it improve the sound??
Urban Tiger
26-01-2002, 10:14
Originally posted by Sheepking
I am using the feet on the centre. did it improve the sound??
There was a definite improvement for me.
Just got back from Sevenoaks, took them 30 mins to change the midrange driver and tweeter, and they only charged me for the cost of the parts, not labour. Top people :)
Sheepking
26-01-2002, 10:34
Originally posted by Urban Tiger
There was a definite improvement for me.
Just got back from Sevenoaks, took them 30 mins to change the midrange driver and tweeter, and they only charged me for the cost of the parts, not labour. Top people :)
I put the feet on straight away, so I have no comparison. Must be great to have a decent retailer like that in you area. There is a sevenoaks in Edinburgh, but again no competition (apart from richer) so prices are high.
I demo-ed a pair of 603s yesterday and really liked the sound of them. Not overly keen on the price, but I probably won't let that stop me. :nuts:
A few months on, do you all still like the 603s just as much?
Originally posted by JamesW
I demo-ed a pair of 603s yesterday and really liked the sound of them. Not overly keen on the price, but I probably won't let that stop me. :nuts:
A few months on, do you all still like the 603s just as much?
Ive got the 602.5 S3's, bought them just after xmas. I absolutely love them, best purchasing decision ive made so far for my AV system, thoroughly recommended :)
Just saving for the others now ;)
Damian Arstall
23-04-2002, 19:04
JamesW all I can say is the 603S3's just keep getting better and better over the months I've owned them.
Its a lot of money but its a whole lot of speaker too!
Spoil yourself!!!!
Damian:clap: :clap:
Oh dear, my credit card ain't gonna like this... :eek: ;)
Sheepking
24-04-2002, 08:47
Originally posted by JamesW
I demo-ed a pair of 603s yesterday and really liked the sound of them. Not overly keen on the price, but I probably won't let that stop me. :nuts:
A few months on, do you all still like the 603s just as much?
No they suck.
Love
Your Credit Card Company.
(Actually, after the inital hassle they are excellent, highly reccomended)
I have a pair of 603S3's (fronts) and a pair of 602S3's (rears) with an LCR600 for the centre.
I've had them for about 5-6 months now and I'm really happy with them as well.
One thing that I think i'll get soon is a subwoofer.. I miss the presence of a sub since I had one with my digitheatre DTS. The 603's are still quite bassy but once you've had a subwoofer, you tend to miss it when you don't have one.
Just back from Sevenoaks with my lovely 603's. Happy days :clap:
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