View Full Version : NXT flat panel speakers - info needed.
Ron Hill
16-01-2002, 15:33
Okay, anyone in here have experience with these. I'm thinking of using a pair in very close proximity to where I sit to implement the rear channel in 6.1 and 7.1. What sort of money are we talking here and what are the brands to consider? I remember someone in here talking about Missions a good while back and also something about them not being very musical.
Pros & cons and info please kind people.
the mission fs2-av (5 speaker + sub) are excellent but not what you are after... £400+ currently.
the stereo only (2 speaker) version of these is a similar price.. £300-400, doesnt seem to have gone cheaper like the surround sound version.
only possibility I can think of this.. and not a perfect one...
the wharfedale loudpanels are now available for £99 online, £79 in Richer Sounds this month coming according to the what-hifi advert.
they're okay but nowhere as good as the Mission... guess they'd be okay for stereo.. probably reasonable for rear centre duties.
£79 for them isnt bad... tempted myself but I'd consider conventional speakers, especially if you only need 1 centre rear speaker and can split the cost with someone.
Ron Hill
17-01-2002, 13:43
The problem I have with conventional speakers as rears for 6.1/7.1 rear channel duty is simple. My sofa is bang up against the rear wall. I'm thinking of NXT's test tone balanced with the rest (i.e. relatively low in volume). That'll give me a rear channel that I can't bang my head on!
Originally posted by Ron Hill
The problem I have with conventional speakers as rears for 6.1/7.1 rear channel duty is simple. My sofa is bang up against the rear wall. I'm thinking of NXT's test tone balanced with the rest (i.e. relatively low in volume). That'll give me a rear channel that I can't bang my head on!
My sofa is bang up against the wall too so I use 3 Mission M7Ds for my 6.1 setup. No chance of banging your head on them. Might be worth consideration.
Yep - have exactly the same issue - I have one of a pair of Yamaha NSE 105's above the sofa on the wall, but its not popular to say the least!! I had thought about the Wharfedales, but not sure what they sound like- plus I only need one of them!!
Ron Hill
17-01-2002, 14:15
AndrewJ & Mozza: Am I correct in thinking that you have to have the centre rears turned way down relative to the others to make the surround illusion work when sitting so close to the rears?
I'm estimating having the two centre rears about a foot to my left and right and about level with the top of my head.
From the front i'll probably look like i've grown two large oblong ears when i'm seated! :D
Ron, yes you are correct that the center rear is turned down relative to the others. Just use the setting in the amp to tell it how far away from the listening postion it is. Mine is about a foot above my head. My left surround is about 2 meters away form that but unfortunately, due to the shape of my room, the right surround is about 3 meters away. But it all balances out quite nicely.
Ron Hill
17-01-2002, 14:45
Cheers Mozza!
I've been trying to get this theory for 6.1/7.1 confirmed as workable (along with other interested people in here) before laying out cash.
Out of curiosity, what speakers and amp do you have?
I've shortlisted the Denon 3802 amp and either the Kef KHT2005 s or the Mission FS2-AVs for auditioning when I get the chance.
Originally posted by Ron Hill
Cheers Mozza!
Out of curiosity, what speakers and amp do you have?
I've shortlisted the Denon 3802 amp and either the Kef KHT2005 s or the Mission FS2-AVs for auditioning when I get the chance.
I am one of the hoards that use the Sony1070 receiver. Front speakers are Eltax Liberty 3+ on stands. I have a big problem with a window being directly above my right speaker so height is very limited. Next time I buy a house I will buy it around my A/V and Hifi equipment, not the other way around!
I have a mate who is thinking seriously about getting the Mission F2S 5 pack and he phoned Mission to see if he could buy just the one extra surround speaker to make it 6.1. Apparently it may be possible.
Buying just one would be cool - but I have to say that it would still need to be reasonably integrated with the rears - the Yamaha spkr I am using temporarily sounds cack compared to the Tannoy rears .....
I would say 6.1 is definitely worth doing - set it up and try it out if you can.....
Ron Hill
17-01-2002, 15:53
I figure if i'm gonna go 6.1 I might as well go the whole hog and go for 7.1. The wiring is the same for 6.1 and 7.1 IIRC
Don't forget 7.1 can be stereo in the rears depending on the sound format.
Ron/ Mozza
I've got the FS2-av and the denon 2802, an excellent match... 3802 should be very similar + more power.
I'm not sure about the reply from Mission re: the 6.1,
and adding a single speaker... spoke to one of their
technical people at a demo and they said NO -
you would need to buy a stereo set on top of the 5.
since the sub works out the cross-over,
I'm not sure what the consequences would be to the speaker,
or to the sound but I might try it to see.
Ron AFAIK, there is no dvd format with stereo signal in the centre rears... 6.1/7.1 diff is that some amps have outputs for two speakers rather than one to give better spread from the sound (acoustics and sound from behind being confusing to the ears..)
dts es is still a 6.1 format... no 7.1 formats yet.
the wharfedale's are probably good enough for rear duties... £79 isnt bad for them.
Ron Hill
18-01-2002, 08:13
MartinC: Thanks for the clarification on the rear channel info. Makes sense when I think about it. :)
Time to start auditioning methinks.
no problem... all the extra formats DD EX, DTS ES, DTS ES Discrete are still 6.1 formats. just that the rear channel is a separate channel (discrete) in dts es d mix, but extracted from the left/right rear stereo pair in the dd ex format same as prologic.
there's some acoustic thinking that a single speaker from behind will be interpreted from the brain as actually coming from the front. supposedly.
1 speaker is fine for me... I must have a strange brain.:D
the Wharfedale NXT's behind would probably do fine.. thinking of getting them myself.
jon smith
18-01-2002, 09:27
Originally posted by MartinC
there's some acoustic thinking that a single speaker from behind will be interpreted from the brain as actually coming from the front. supposedly.
1 speaker is fine for me... I must have a strange brain.:D
Yeah, i've read this a lot. I have 1 speaker and it doesn't confuse my brain. (indeed, the proposed 10.2 format only has 1 centre rear).
I have the Mission FS2s and a normal Bipolar Mission at the centre rear. Have had no problems with it sounding different to the others (the centre rear channel seems to be there just to add ambience and it works to that end). I will invest in a stereo FS2 set though when I have the money, so I get 2nd sub as well.
From what I have read they (the LoudPanels) sound cack without the attached sub - but not sure I want to use the sub - especially as its passive - any thoughts?
for info: -http://www.audioreview.com/reviews/Speaker/product_8616.shtml
mostly from our american cousins.....
all the NXT speakers have a good mid/ high end sound but
no real lowend -> hence the need for a sub to integrate properly.
it might work plugging direct, but since the sub probably works out the x-over (as on the fs-2), the speakers may sound really tiny.
the wharfedales did get an okay review as stereo speakers in what hifi a few years ago... so rear centres they should be fine.. especially if you dont need loud volumes as someone pointed out.. (since they're right behind your head). the nxt style sound gives a nice wide dispersal so it should be perfect for centre rear duties.
I assume as the sub works out the x-over then if you plug a panel directly in you will probably nuke it straight away with those lower Hz.....?
probably. just found a section in the FS-2 manual that says dont plug them in directly. EVER.
presume the same applies to the Wharfedales, so you would definitely have to use the sub.
same feeling here...
once I've got my room layout changed for a future projector,
I may have a bay window behind me anyway, so the wharfedales would be no good. I could sneak some fs-2s in on their stands though.
annoyingly the fs2-a (stereo only set) are listed as £369+ on the net - almost as expensive as the fs2-av (5 speaker set) at £407.
I could split these with someone if they wanted to double up on left/ right/ centres maybe?
think jon smith and I discussed the alternatives before 2-3 months ago.., that is if you dont want to go the wharfedale route and the fs-2 stereo is too expensive.
use a single conventional speaker as centre rear... buy a pair and split the cost with someone else, or use the pair if you have 2 outputs on your amp.
alternatively, try using a conventional front centre speaker and switch the spair fs-2 to the back as the rear centre speaker.. (easier to buy since you just buy 1 speaker... maybe difficult to match the speakers tone though). got a tannoy mc sitting doing nothing so I might try this.
Martin,
Where on the net have you seen FS2 - AV for £404.
I'm currently looking at buying these and the lowest I've found is £440.
cheers,
Gary
was looking on price-guide.co.uk recently,
it lists the fs2-av in grey at £399.95 + £7 p&p... approx £407... a bargain price.
AndrewJ... if you are still reading this... Mission are saying it
may be possible to plug an nxt speaker in directly, with some caveats regarding bass... not clear what the speak would sound like though, so I;m awaiting further details.
jon smith
22-01-2002, 15:33
Originally posted by MartinC
AndrewJ... if you are still reading this... Mission are saying it
may be possible to plug an nxt speaker in directly, with some caveats regarding bass... not clear what the speak would sound like though, so I;m awaiting further details.
Cool, let us know what they say.
no problem, Jon... didn't you go for a single Mission bi or dipole anyway?
FYI, in the pdf file for ex/es with mission speakers, they recommended either a pair of bipolar "ds" series speakers (not sure which these are), wired in serial if only one speaker connection.
OR
NXT speakers, preferably using an FS2-a or better.
The section of the document that mentions connecting FS2s directly says:-
To provide the extra rear channel the cheapest addition is a pair of Mission NXT panels wired directly to the AV amplifier rear channel outputs. These panels will, however, not have the bass support from the subwoofer and may sound lacking in low frequency energy compared to the other surround panels.
Its not clear from this whether the speakers would sound awful, or just not have deep bass that could be redirected to the front speakers or sub anyway.
sounds promising though.
my original suggestion of the Wharfedale's would also seem to work according to their statement about NXT technology being "phase coherent". £79 for 2 speakers would be fairly reasonable.
jon smith
22-01-2002, 16:19
Hi MartinC
I did go for a single Mission bipolar, which certainly sounds alright, but I would prefer another Mission NXT panel as they are smaller and less visible.
Ideally, I would like to add another FS2 system so I have 2 woofers connected together. The price difference between the stereo and AV is as you've said marginal though. Using the others to double up the fronts would be nice.
But to double up your fronts you need interlocking panels, but you only get these with FS2 upgrade packs I believe. Not sure if Mission will sell them seperately.
I asked Mission about a 6:1 system with their Fs2 units and if they had any plans for and Fs3 in the near future - this is a copy of their reply:
'It is possible to use fs2 with 6.1. You would need an fs2AV - front L/R,
centre and side left / side right and an fs2A for rear left/ rear right with
supporting sub.
If you go this route and have any trouble with the wiring, give us a call.
There's no such thing as an fs3. We will release an fs1 in April which is
budget NXT system without the upgradeability or flexibility of the fs2'
Hope this may be of some help.
jon - which mission did you go for? they recommended any ds model pair of bipolars for a 6.1/7.1 setup, wired serially if you only have 1 rear centre connection. I wasn't aware you needed interlocking panels to connect up 2 panels though... thought you could just take the end connector off and link them. I'll find out.
hi djinn... we meet again! we talked on avforums (MartinCo on there) on the same subject. did Mission sent you the 2-3 page pdf file on the 6.1/7.1 setup or just a text reply? the pdf file is much more detailed and explains the options and how to connect it up.
the FS-1 sounds interesting though.. I also asked if the MM1 pc/hifi pair would work also.
more info when I get it.
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