View Full Version : Tartan do it again !
Jimmyboy
16-01-2002, 13:25
Just when you thought they couldnt get any worse -
http://www.r2-dvd.org/article.jsp?sectionId=4&articleId=3312
Tartan couldn't pour **** out of a boot with instructions on the heel! :mad:
Thankfully it means I don't have to upgrade my r3! :D
jonathan.e
16-01-2002, 14:48
Is it any surprise that the only halfway decent discs from them were the Bergman discs as these were mastered by someone else?
It’d be funny if it wasn’t so pathetic.
Garry, what’s the R3 like? Any good or just a stop gap until (maybe) the US does it right?
SimonInd
16-01-2002, 14:55
I'd recommend the R3 as it's cheap, has a reasonable if non-anamorphic picture, fairly good subtitles which aren't burned in and an excellent dts soundtrack. Order from http://www.dddhouse.com and it'll be about 8 quid including shipping and take about a week. For a more detailed review check http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/index.cgi?page=Review&id=285&story=2200
Cheers
Simon
Could do well to look out for this title on the European online DVD retailers as I've found a few Far Eastern titles get anamorphic releases and aren't mastered by Tartan from what I can remember.
They really aren't giving us much hope of a decent Hard Boiled DVD release in the future are they? :rolleyes:
Michael Brooke
16-01-2002, 15:13
<B>Is it any surprise that the only halfway decent discs from them were the Bergman discs as these were mastered by someone else? </B>
To be fair, their <I>In the Mood for Love</I> is one of the finest discs on the UK market...
...but they didn't master that one either, and their own attempt six months earlier was dire.
jonathan.e
16-01-2002, 15:19
Thanks SimonInd, but I may wait and see if there’s a decent US release.
Did you get the mail I sent you Michael?
Michael Brooke
16-01-2002, 15:19
Not if you sent it to my home address, which I suspect you probably did!
jonathan.e
16-01-2002, 15:26
Went to your demon.co.uk address. Do you have another?
Michael Brooke
16-01-2002, 16:13
I'll get it tonight - my work address is strictly off-limits!
Originally posted by SimonInd
I'd recommend the R3 as it's cheap, has a reasonable if non-anamorphic picture, fairly good subtitles which aren't burned in and an excellent dts soundtrack. Order from http://www.dddhouse.com and it'll be about 8 quid including shipping and take about a week. For a more detailed review check http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/index.cgi?page=Review&id=285&story=2200
Cheers
Simon
Just one question: How come people buy from DDDHouse?
As far as I can see there is no search function on the site. Without it you have to go into each category then look through them all and mabye not find anything.
Is there a trick to navigation the site?
Please tell me about it.
Thanks.
Ericf
Jimmyboy
16-01-2002, 17:58
Originally posted by Ericf
Just one question: How come people buy from DDDHouse?
As far as I can see there is no search function on the site. Without it you have to go into each category then look through them all and mabye not find anything.
Is there a trick to navigation the site?
Please tell me about it.
Thanks.
Ericf
Most people who use DDDhouse have a pretty good idea what they want already.
Its quite simple.
A new release will be on the main page.
Chinese titles are listed under the Chinese section unless they star Jet Li, Stephen Chow, Jackie Chan, or Bruce Lee.
Really straight forward.
You could use coolashop if you want a search facility.
Edited away. Found my own answer.
Ericf
Hamburger3
16-01-2002, 23:57
Originally posted by Jimmyboy
Just when you thought they couldnt get any worse -
http://www.r2-dvd.org/article.jsp?sectionId=4&articleId=3312
Bar the DTS soundtrack, both versions sound the same (ie similar features ect.....) so why is everyone so hostile to it ? It is anamorphic so why does no one want it over a non anamorphic version ?
Is it because you already own it and were hoping for a better version or is it just a price thing ?
Not everyone has DTS.
Im not having a go, im just a bit confused.
Jimmyboy
17-01-2002, 00:02
Originally posted by Hamburger3
Bar the DTS soundtrack, both versions sound the same (ie similar features ect.....) so why is everyone so hostile to it ? It is anamorphic so why does no one want it over a non anamorphic version ?
Is it because you already own it and were hoping for a better version or is it just a price thing ?
No its because it has burnt in subs, has stereosound when it was recorded with surround, costs double the price of the R3, has no worth while extra features, and despite being anamorphic has a transfer which I doubt offers any real improvement over the R3.
Imagine how things would have turned out if HKL had gotten hold of it, then you'll know why it ****** people off.
Originally posted by Hamburger3
Bar the DTS soundtrack, both versions sound the same (ie similar features ect.....) so why is everyone so hostile to it ? It is anamorphic so why does no one want it over a non anamorphic version ?
Is it because you already own it and were hoping for a better version or is it just a price thing ?
Not everyone has DTS.
Im not having a go, im just a bit confused.
Don't encourage Tartan to release dire DVDs - only poor sales will make them release better quality discs!
Monoxide
17-01-2002, 02:48
Originally posted by Jimmyboy
Imagine how things would have turned out if HKL had gotten hold of it, then you'll know why it ****** people off.
Why would HKL want to release a Japanese movie anyway?
I'll be sticking with my more than adequate R3 version. Thanks Tartan, but no thanks :)
Michael Brooke
17-01-2002, 10:09
<B>Bar the DTS soundtrack, both versions sound the same (ie similar features ect.....) so why is everyone so hostile to it ? It is anamorphic so why does no one want it over a non anamorphic version ?
Im not having a go, im just a bit confused.</B>
The problem with Tartan is that while their discs often look impressive on paper, in practice the transfers are often so poor that this completely negates any potential advantages in terms of features.
They have an incredibly annoying (or rather cheapskate) habit of sourcing their DVDs from used cinema prints – which leads to both obvious onscreen blemishes and, much more seriously, excessively contrasty pictures, as prints designed for projection can get away with a wider contrast range than prints intended for video/DVD. And if the films are subtitled, they’re often very small (cinema subtitles don’t need to be as big relative to the picture because of the much bigger screen), and hard to read when set against white backgrounds or clothes.
True, it costs a fair bit more to strike a low-contrast print and make a brand new anamorphic transfer from that – but most of Tartan’s rivals do it, and given their lousy reputation in these forums I’m sure they must lose sales hand over fist while they carry on their current policy. I would <U>never</U> buy a Tartan DVD without reading a comprehensive independent review first, and they distribute exactly the kind of films I would normally buy on impulse!
jonathan.e
17-01-2002, 10:14
They’ve had complaints about their transfers for years on rental and sell-thru VHS and (the even more discerning than DVD) laserdisc markets so the comments they’re receiving over DVD are nothing new to them. I’m not holding my breath for a sudden about turn.
ian_davies
17-01-2002, 10:21
WHY GOD?!?!?! WHY?!?!?!?!?! Just as I thought I was going to get a good version of Battle Royale, THIS happens!!! It's not fair I tell you! IT'S JUST NOT FAIR!!!
There are three versions available-
1) The Jap R2 version which has an amazing transfer, brilliant sound, decent special features. YET - no subtitles :(
2) The R3 version which has a decent non-anamorphic transfer, phenomenal sound, subtitles which you can actually read, but hardly any features.
3) and keeping in Tartan tradition, a dire UK R2 release with a bad anamorphic print, a 2.0 only soundtrack, burnt in subtitles and features that leave a LOT to be desired.
When will we get a decent BR DVD?!? Never by the looks of things :(
Mr Vampire
17-01-2002, 10:23
Originally posted by jonathan.e
They’ve had complaints about their transfers for years on rental and sell-thru VHS and (the even more discerning than DVD) laserdisc markets so the comments they’re receiving over DVD are nothing new to them. I’m not holding my breath for a sudden about turn. Has anyone told it to their faces though?
Not one to ask for a petition, but could we force them to check out places such as here to show them that pretty much everyones fed up of their cheapskate releases.
Michael Brooke
17-01-2002, 10:29
A few years ago there was a debate on the letters page of <I>Sight & Sound</I> about their poor quality VHS releases, to which Tartan responded that sales on specialist titles were so low that they couldn’t afford to do anything better. I suspect the response would be exactly the same this time round – even though it ignores the fact (and it’s a pretty undeniable fact if you read these forums) that they’re losing sales.
I think I own about three Tartan discs – and that number would multiply tenfold if their transfers were better. I doubt very much I’m alone – so how much money are they losing as a result of this short-term penny-pinching?
ed rooney
17-01-2002, 10:45
Originally posted by Michael Brooke
To be fair, their <I>In the Mood for Love</I> is one of the finest discs on the UK market...
...but they didn't master that one either, and their own attempt six months earlier was dire.
Michael, as you've obviously got a fair amount of knowledge of the different versions floating about how does the new Tartan release compare with the French and Criterion versions.
jonathan.e
17-01-2002, 10:51
Criterion version isn’t out until the end of Feb but it sounds pretty definitive.
Michael Brooke
17-01-2002, 11:16
I’ve only read the specs of the Criterion version, but on the strength of those I’d certainly wait for a full review if you haven’t splashed out yet.
That said, it looks like a more conventional package than the wildly imaginative TF1/Tartan edition, whose sheer eccentricity (Chinese recipes, hairstyling tips, loads of Easter eggs and some of the most gorgeous menus I’ve ever seen) is what makes it so endearing. I certainly have no regrets over buying what may well be the best all-round DVD package in my entire collection!
ed rooney
17-01-2002, 11:33
Thanks for the replies Jonathan and Michael.
Unfortunately you've confirmed my worst suspicions i.e. WAIT.
However, it does seem that there might be a significant difference between the Criterion and the French/Tartan version (I assume they're the same) in terms of extras.
The Criterion will probably be more expensive as well.
mmm... decisions!
I trust them no more. The R2 release of Cronos was so bad that it was almost unwatchable! Seemingly P&S, huge bands of colour streaking across the screen - they should be ashamed to release a film in such a state.
Originally posted by Michael Brooke
I think I own about three Tartan discs – and that number would multiply tenfold if their transfers were better.
Out of interest Michael, what are the Tartan discs you own as I assume they're not too bad. The reason I ask, is that apart from the Bergman discs and In The Mood For Love, it would be nice to know if there are any others out there which haven't been ruined.
Edge
Michael Brooke
17-01-2002, 13:37
I own:
<I>The Idiots</I> - mediocre transfer but given that it was shot on a DV camcorder this wasn’t important.
<I>Of Freaks and Men</I> - not unwatchable, but very soft and too contrasty: doesn’t convey anything like the lustre of the 35mm version. It’s apparently due out in the US quite soon.
<I>Man Bites Dog</I> - absolutely dreadful. I know it’s an ultra low-budget film, but Kino’s <I>Tales from the Gimli Hospital</I> and Something Weird’s <I>Basket Case</I> show what can be done with tiny-budget 16mm films if enough care is taken.
I would consider buying the Bergman titles, but nothing else at present.
Well, Criterion are handling Man Bites Dog at some point in the future, so that's some hope, I suppose.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jonathan.e
Is it any surprise that the only halfway decent discs from them were the [b]Bergman discs as these were mastered by someone else?
Would you know if the Tartan release of The Magician is worth having, then? I've been waiting for a Criterion release because I just assumed the Tartan release wouldn't be up to much. Cheers.
Ghost Dog
18-01-2002, 18:27
This really annoys me too. Everytime Tartan release a great film on DVD (Hardboiled, Cronos, Man Bites Dog, Battle Royale, the list goes on), I think about buying them then I read the reviews on here and other websites and decide not to bother. They have relesed loads of films I would love to buy but so far I have bought no Tartan releases yet would snap them up it they put at least half the effort Criterion or HKL put into there titles. I rented Nowhere to Hide and visually it is a great film but the subtitles are just impossible to read half the time, why do they do it?
jonathan.e
18-01-2002, 20:13
Originally posted by psmac27
Would you know if the Tartan release of The Magician is worth having, then? I've been waiting for a Criterion release because I just assumed the Tartan release wouldn't be up to much. Cheers.
Sorry, I don’t own a Tartan release - wouldn’t give them housespace. I’d simply read that the Bergman movies were well mastered (by someone else for Tartan) and also that the In the Mood for Love disc was pretty good.
Originally posted by jonathan.e
Sorry, I don’t own a Tartan release - wouldn’t give them housespace. I’d simply read that the Bergman movies were well mastered (by someone else for Tartan) and also that the In the Mood for Love disc was pretty good.
I guess I'm just going to find out the hard way. I'll let people know if it's any good. I'm half hoping it isn't because vouching for a Tartan DVD is bound to leave a bad taste in the mouth. :confused:
Michael Brooke
18-01-2002, 22:34
<B>I rented Nowhere to Hide and visually it is a great film but the subtitles are just impossible to read half the time, why do they do it?</B>
Existing cinema print with burned-in subtitles = cheap
New low-contrast print with electronic subtitles = expensive.
That's why!
bddidier
19-01-2002, 11:08
There should be a French release of Battle Royale in July. But M6 is not known for exceptionnal releases either!
http://www.dvdrama.net/news.php3?3987
BigHairyScotsman
19-01-2002, 15:48
Originally posted by Michael Brooke
To be fair, their <I>In the Mood for Love</I> is one of the finest discs on the UK market...
Well Im sending my Tartan copy of ITMFL back to the retailer because when I got the wrapper off and put disc1 in my player I found that it was in fact disc2, and vise versa :brickwall , plus at a certain point on the extras disc it completely froze (it could be my player, but its not any good to me either way :( ). So first thing Monday Im posting it back.......Im in 2 minds now if I should hang on a few weeks and get the CC release instead!
BHS
Originally posted by BigHairyScotsman
put disc1 in my player I found that it was in fact disc2, and vise versa
The whole lot are like that :rolleyes:
and that's 'cause Tartan can't do anything right.
Ever.
Originally posted by psmac27
Would you know if the Tartan release of The Magician is worth having, then? I've been waiting for a Criterion release because I just assumed the Tartan release wouldn't be up to much. Cheers.
Just watched it this afternoon. The print is fabulous, believe it or not. Detailed, good contrast, deep blacks. If I were you, I wouldn't hesitate. In fact, I didn't hesitate, and have bought/ordered all the Tartan Bergmans except those that Criterion have released or are about to. I've quickly scanned them and they all seem rather too good to be Tartan disks!
Gary Couzens
20-01-2002, 23:16
I've reviewed The Idiots (http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/reviews/other/idiots.html) , Matador (http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/reviews/other/matador.html) and The Lovers of the Arctic Circle (http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/reviews/other/loversofthearcticcircle.html) for DVD Times. Bear in mind that these are relatively early reviews of mine, and nowadays I'd be more stringent about the picture quality. <i>Lovers...</i> was Tartan's first anamorphic DVD, but it still has the faults that Michael and others have identified. In some places I couldn't read the subtitles at all, though the film is so strongly visual it managed to overcome that.
All the above were review copies sent to me by Videovista (http://www.videovista.net) , and I reviewed them for that site as well. Another review copy was <i>Faithless</i>, which I reviewed for Videovista but haven't yet for DVD Times (it's sitting in a ple with several others). It has teh same picture flaws, but does have a worthwhile extra in the form of a 30-minute interview with Liv Ullmann.
The only one I actually bought (going cheap as it was just about to be deleted) was <i>Cinema Paradiso</i>.
As for <i>Man Bites Dog</i>, it's just been released on DVD in Australia, but it would seem that picture quality is just as bad and the film has also been cut by the OFLC. There's a review at MichaelD's site (http://www.michaeldvd.com au) written by someone who has clearly missed the point of the film completely.
Originally posted by Gary Couzens
... Another review copy was <i>Faithless</i>, which I reviewed for Videovista but haven't yet for DVD Times (it's sitting in a ple with several others). It has teh same picture flaws, but does have a worthwhile extra in the form of a 30-minute interview with Liv Ullmann.
Tartan's Faithless is really ugly. You can get excellent version from Nordic contries - beautiful, anamorphic transfer, optional English subtitles. Try e.g. DVDSverige (http://www.dvdsverige.com). The Swedish title is Trolösa.
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