View Full Version : England vs West Indies 2nd Test thread
England squad:
Michael Vaughan (Yorkshire, captain), James Anderson (Lancashire), Ian Bell (Warwickshire), Paul Collingwood (Durham), Alastair Cook (Essex), Andrew Flintoff (Lancashire), Steve Harmison (Durham), Kevin Pietersen (Hampshire), Matt Prior (Sussex), Monty Panesar (Northants), Liam Plunkett (Durham), Ryan Sidebottom (Nottinghamshire), Andrew Strauss (Middlesex)
Ryan Sidebottom is the surprise inclusion in this squad for sure - didn't see him even coming close to the squad :eek:
Sidebottom sure is a surprise.
I have to agree with Boycott on this. Vaughan and Fintoff should be nowhere near the team until they have proven their fitness. I saw a few interviews with Vaughan over the weekend and he was talking as if he was guaranteed his place which is ridiculous. Shah may have had a rubbish game but he really does deserve at least one more game
Sidebottom is indeed a surprise but if he is bowling well then why not have him in the squad. I think Anderson will get Hoggard's place anyway.
Sidebottom sure is a surprise.
I have to agree with Boycott on this. Vaughan and Fintoff should be nowhere near the team until they have proven their fitness. I saw a few interviews with Vaughan over the weekend and he was talking as if he was guaranteed his place which is ridiculous. Shah may have had a rubbish game but he really does deserve at least one more game
Vaughan hasn't completed a 4/5 day game now in 2 years so the Selectors are really taking a chance for sure. Flintoff for me is still an automatic selection though.
Vaughan hasn't completed a 4/5 day game now in 2 years
Two years :eek:
As for Shah he probably does deserve another chance as we did not see the best of him at Lords for whatever reason. In the second innings he looked unbelievably nervous so I wouldn't have had a problem if he was in the team again.
Regarding Vaughan, I can see him breaking down in this match. I hope I ma wrong but as said above it is a massive gamble and with his injury record of the last few years the chances of him not lasting the full match have to be high.
Got tickets for day 1 so hope the weather is good (forecast is cloudy at moment). On the Western Terrace so should be enjoyable to say the least ;)
At least that will be some noise from the crows at Leeds, the only time the crowd came alive at Lords it seemed was when a batsman got to a hundred apart from that they were on the quiet side.
cheeseypuffs
23-05-2007, 08:11
Although Vaughan is one of the best Test captain's around and his batting seems fairly good recently he should definitely have had to prove his fitness in a county game first. What's the use of having a top skipper who's off the field with the physio because he's aggravated an old injury :?: And Flintoff should only be an automatic choice as a bowler, but only if he's fit and the only way to really prove that is for him to play for his county. Again, it's no good having a world class bowler if he can't bowl due to an old injury :shrug:
I think they should've immediately said these two will miss the first two tests and this would've allowed the likes of Shah a bit more security and given him a bit more freedom to play his natural game. After all in his last two tests he's done well in the first and badly in the second and because of the second may be resigned to the international wilderness. If Prior picks up a pair in the second Test he's still be solidly placed because of his display in the first :thinking:
One issue has been sorted and that is that Flintoff is out of the second test and he could possibly miss the third test.
stuartcricket1
23-05-2007, 19:26
Why Sidebottom? he isnt even in the top 20 wicket takers for this seasons championship!
Perhaps they want some a little bit different and a left arm seam bowler is somebody who hasn't been in the team to much over the years. He might not be doing that well this year but he has been a leading wicket taker over the previous few seasons.
He's apparently getting the nod ahead of Jimmy A as well for tomorrow so Moores must really like him!
Well I hope he does play because a seam attack of Harmison, Plunkett & Anderson is a scary thought. They are all prone to waywardness and could get absolutely battered.
I hope I don't curse him and maybe a little biased but Sidebottom has been class for Notts. You look at his figures and he gets wickets without being expensive (Mahmood).
Knows Headingley and as he says himself has improved since those days.
He's actually been very unlucky so far this year not to get as many wickets as Shreck but his economy rate is better.
I know he has a terrible average for England but after last years Bradmanish season , averaging over 100 Mark Ramprakash , has now made 676 runs this season at an average of 135. HE must be best English batsmen in country. Has he retired from Test cricket?
I know he has a terrible average for England but after last years Bradmanish season , averaging over 100 Mark Ramprakash , has now made 676 runs this season at an average of 135. HE must be best English batsmen in country. Has he retired from Test cricket?
I donlt think he;s retired but as you say he has never converted county form to test level. He's had plenty of chances and picking him again would be a bad step and anyway who would you drop to fit him in?
I donlt think he;s retired but as you say he has never converted county form to test level. He's had plenty of chances and picking him again would be a bad step and anyway who would you drop to fit him in?
No idea, just seems to me very odd that he isn't even being mentioned as he is in the form of his life. i thought it was maybe because he had retired. Age shouldn't be a barrier imo. You need to pick form players
No idea, just seems to me very odd that he isn't even being mentioned as he is in the form of his life. i thought it was maybe because he had retired. Age shouldn't be a barrier imo. You need to pick form players
I tend to agree but his time has come and gone. He has been picked in the past on form yet has proved he is not good enough at international level and I don;t see why he should have another shot at it in preference to a much younger players who have performed at the top level.
Ramps played 52 tests yet only managed two centruies and has an average of only 27. If picked someone like Bell would have go yet he has played 24 test at an avergae of 45 with 6 tons.
I tend to agree but his time has come and gone. He has been picked in the past on form yet has proved he is not good enough at international level and I don;t see why he should have another shot at it in preference to a much younger players who have performed at the top level.
I would normally agree , but with last years amazing average and his start this year it seems he has taken his game to another level Certainly finding county cricket a walk in the park but I guess your right , powers that be would probably never even consider it.
cheeseypuffs
24-05-2007, 13:02
When Ramps first played for England he was consistently scoring heavily at county level. For England he seemed to always get a good start to about 27 and then throw his wicket away :shrug: TBH if it's best to select in form batsmen regardless of their age then both Ramprakash and Crawley should've played in the last Ashes series, but that's really a step backwards, especially when we've got a lot of good young batsmen in the side already. It is the bowlers that we are now struggling with, despite "discovering" Monty. Losing Simon Jones was a huge blow, but with Hoggard and Flintoff out and Harmison seemingly lost at sea we will really struggle to contain batsmen, let alone get them out :(
Art Vanderlay
24-05-2007, 13:36
It is ironic that for years we have been crying out for a spinner, and now that we have one our feared pace attack is either injured or out of form :(
Amazingly we may well be blessed with spinners in the future, if Rashid keeps improving.
He's apparently getting the nod ahead of Jimmy A as well for tomorrow so Moores must really like him!
It is good to see a coach not afraid to pick a player like Sidebottom and go with him. I very much doubt Fletcher would have picked him and played him.
Sidebottom is in the team. The full team is:
*MP Vaughan, AJ Strauss, JM Anderson, IR Bell, PD Collingwood, AN Cook, SJ Harmison, MS Panesar, KP Pietersen, LE Plunkett, MJ Prior, RJ Sidebottom
England have won the toss and decided to bat
Art Vanderlay
25-05-2007, 09:38
That is the squad of 12. Anderson misses out for the final XI
Chanderpaul is out of the W Indies side which is a big blow.
Unless the game is finished inside 2 days I can;t see any result except a draw as the weather forecast means there is unlikely to be any play on the Sun & Mon and only a slim chance of play on Tue.
Strauss takes another dump for 15.
This goes on too much longer, and the Strauss situation will be no different from Vaughan IMO. ie. How long can you let desperately average batting go on for?
Cook has started very well again.
Vaughan is on fire here.
Some of the fielding by the Windies though. Poor.
Brilliant from Michael Vaughan to answer his critics thus far with what sounds an outstanding innings.
Strauss though I fear is in trouble and needs a big innings sooner rather than later for sure
Amazing how quickly the pressure shifts from player to player!
I was against Vaughan playing but am happy to admit I was wrong. Well played to him.
Strauss could in a real fight for his place especially if Flintoff is deemed fit enough for the next match as I expect a batsman to make way for him.
Strauss could in a real fight for his place especially if Flintoff is deemed fit enough for the next match as I expect a batsman to make way for him.It can only really be Strauss that is dropped out of the batsmen, although that would mean using Vaughan or Bell as opener.
I was against Vaughan playing but am happy to admit I was wrong. Well played to him.
I would echo this, what a dream day it has been for him. Loosing Chanderpaul who is their best batsman is a massive blow to the West Indies.
Another typically brilliant knock from KP as well so far - slow start and quickens like an avalanche as his innings moves on :D
KP to get to 158 and out
Lets hope he finally manages to get past that figure as at the moment he is playing well enough and doesn't look troubled by this bowling.
If Sarwan has done his shoulder in there, then Windies could be absolutely crushed in this game!
spearce8
25-05-2007, 16:47
Another crap flat Cricket pitch, ok for Batting, I'm sure both teams will rack em' up.....just a complete yawn fest for those who want to see a contest....the 1st Test all over again....a bore Draw.
Bell gone now with the Windies finding some late swing evident for sure
These late wickets are a bit of a blow but well bowled by Collymore who is putting the ball in the correct place.
I wouldn't say this match is necessarily heading for a draw although the weather could still play a part.
Without Chanderpaul and maybe Sarwan, the Windies have no chance of posting a decent response so I fully expect a comfortable England win inside 4 days.
^^ So a rain interrupted draw it is then ;)
No, a rain interrupted Windies win :D
Thats better :D
Kevin Pietersen just has to beat this 158 now and if Prior can continue from where he left off at Lords we could be looking at a total nearer 500.
TigaSefi
26-05-2007, 10:53
India finished over 600 runs and now bangladesh are struggling at 7-4 ;)
Kp finally gets past 158 and is now 161 not out :clap:
Prior yet again is playing well and is approaching another half century.
Prior gets his 50. Looks like we've found a bit of a gem.
Indeed, he has started with a bang and it finally looks like we have found someone who can make that step up from county to the international level.
Kevin Pietersen is a genius - there is no better word for him. What an innings from him :notworthy
When controversial selections pay off part 2 :D
Well chuffed for Sidebottom and all his Notts teammates had the possibility of seeing him as Essex were beaten in 3 days by an innings and over 100 runs. :D
There was no need to rub it in :(
I didn't see his inclusion as controversial anyway, brave perhaps but the selectors obviously wanted someone a little bit different and so far it is paying off.
Another crap flat Cricket pitch, ok for Batting, I'm sure both teams will rack em' up.....just a complete yawn fest for those who want to see a contest....the 1st Test all over again....a bore Draw.
You cant moan after one days play. The west Indian bowling attack is very poor at the moment.
Mick Davies
26-05-2007, 14:37
KPs innings was amazing, he got 200+ in 250 balls, thats pretty good going for a test match :)
TigaSefi
26-05-2007, 14:40
Still, the pitches need a bit of battering and better preparation....Staid pitches aren't good fun for anyone.
Harmison bowls a wide to 2nd slip :nuts: 2 balls later gets a wicket :nuts:
And Smith goes too, after looking solid.
Windies in serious trouble now, a lot rests with Bravo.
Windies in total collapse now with that 5th wicket
82-5, Windies are going to be struggling to make the follow-on. This is just what we need to force a result with the bad weather coming.
94-7 (Sarwan won't bat) now. No chance of making the follow-on, and the only thing that can save the Windies now is rain.
99-6, although we havn't bowled great from what i'm hearing but i'm not complaining
114-7, woeful batting from the Windies. Even Essex could take them on ;)
Another crap flat Cricket pitch, ok for Batting, I'm sure both teams will rack em' up.....just a complete yawn fest for those who want to see a contest....the 1st Test all over again....a bore Draw.
This yawn fest will be over within 3 days if the weather holds. :wave:
Bravo's leg stump taken, one more wicket needed to clean up.
Windies all gone for 146, and now Sibo has got his 5 of the day taking Ganga. 20-1 in their second innings, this is gonna be embarrassing.
What a shocking performance from the West Indies, what they have done is made a result in England's favour look possible now even if there is two days of solid rain. England didn't bowl that well by the Windies either kept getting trapped in front or tried to smack the ball away and were caught behind.
It was still a pleasure to watch some quality swing bowling by Sidebottom. I do feel a bit for the West Indies though. You cant expect to lose Lara, Chanderpaul & Sarwan and expect to post decent scores.
I do feel a bit for the West Indies though. You cant expect to lose Lara, Chanderpaul & Sarwan and expect to post decent scores.
While that is true they were architects of their own downfall with so many batsman getting out playing the same shot which is always a risk against the moving ball.
I agree some really poor shots although I feel there batsmen wont have played in these kind of conditions too often and will get drawn into the drive too easily.
One of the commentators yesterday picked up on Gayle saying he was trying to play as late as possible, this probably shows that they accept that the swinging conditions was a real concern for them.
Fingers crossed we get at least 30 overs in today.
Art Vanderlay
27-05-2007, 07:35
From Wikipedia...
"When Pietersen passed 210 at Headingley he overtook Everton Weekes to go second behind the great Don Bradman in the list of players with most runs in their first 25 Tests"
He now averages 54.79 from 25 tests. Pretty awesome stuff, particularly as a fair few of those tests have been against the Aussies.
From Wikipedia...
I had forgotten about that as the Sky stat man said something about in yesterday before he had got to 200. It is pretty amazing stuff from him and to think he is going to get better. What he does these days what he didn't do when he first started is test career is to play himself in and not try and belt the ball from the off.
The covers are on at present so it looks like it is going to be a waiting game today.
Start put back until 1130 at least. But based on my experiences, unless it is chucking it down continually, you can guaruntee the ECB will get their 20 overs out of the day to avoid refunding anyone their ticket money.
Well apparently the weather is supposed to improve as the day passes so you could be right about those 20 overs getting bowled. Apparently it is not heavy rain but light drizzle so hopefully once it stops play will get underway.
Whatever happens the ECB are going to loose out here because England have 3 days to get these last wickets and that is going to leave at least one day or possibly two without any cricket at all and that will mean the ECB having to pay out.
At £3 a pint and 60p for a carboard carrier they are going to lose out BIG time if the queues of Friday at the bars is anything to go by :)
Still raining - not looking like much play before Tea at the mo :(
I bet the entire WI team are sat around a table praying for the rain to continue for days :D
I know it's the rules, but it'll be a total joke if this ends up being a draw.
Given that there are still two days left I would have thought a draw is looking unlikely at present because surely it isn't going to rain for three days solid :suspect:
Not only that, but on current form it is not like we need many overs to skittle them out.
My dad just got back out to the West Indies where he lives and says that the local papers and people are shell-shocked. They thought the first result was great, and always knew they were going to do badly, but apparently the events of Saturday have left them shell-shocked.
I'd imagine we've no chance for today now and tomorrow looks dire as well. Looks like the weather forecast for Tuesday though is excellent :D
LouBarlow
27-05-2007, 15:44
Something kinda ironic in a team from the Carribean relying on bad weather to secure them a result......AGAIN!
Dont'cha think?
Its what we get for scheduling CRICKET on a BANK HOLIDAY WEEKEND - those 2 together is almost certain to yield bad weather karma :D
Looks like the weather forecast for Tuesday though is excellent :D
Which probably means it will chuck it down all day ;)
LouBarlow
28-05-2007, 08:52
Any idea what the weather's doing today - still miserable here.
Not very good here in Rotherham not too far away from Leeds, although it does seem a bit brighter.
It looks quite dry as the covers are off :clap:
Attendance looks like a World Cup 07 match :suspect:
First one down today :clap:
And it was the first ball that Plunkett had put in the right place and what a delivery it was. Hopefully we can finish the job off before the rain arrives.
Mick Davies
28-05-2007, 10:17
and rain again.... :(
Bravoman
28-05-2007, 13:21
Another one down :clap: Sidebottom gets his 7th of the match :thumbs:
Make that 8 and make that hailstone thats coming down !!!!!!
I hadn't even realsied that the match had restarted, albeit very briefly, still just another 4 wickets to take and with a bit of luck we might be able to get them between the rain today to wrap this match up.
Restarting in 10 mins
2.52 actually :dork:
How do they come up with these times :nuts:
I was going to quote that time but decided it was far too :dork: to mention
120-6. If there was any humanity left in the world, someone would take the Windies out and put them out of their misery.
Didn't last long.
England win by an innings and 283 runs. The WI's biggest defeat ever in test cricket :eek:
Well bowled Sidebottom :thumbs:
Good professional job to clean them up today despite the stop/start conditions :thumbs:
TigaSefi
28-05-2007, 17:16
Be kinder to remove WI from Test status surely.
If I was West Indies, I'd be sorely tempted to send an SOS out to Mr Lara ASAP :D
Be kinder to remove WI from Test status surely.
They have had a couple of bad breaks before and during this test match but I don't think they are that bad. Today they were just no used to the conditions and their batting was haphazard at best. Their entire performance for me was summed up by that final wicket when Taylor tried that hook/pull shot and the ball came of his body twice before just nudging the bail off.
On a positive note, Harmison was bowling better as this match went on and should really play a match or two for Durham before the third test and Old Trafford starts.
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