View Full Version : Film SLR recommendations
Evening!
I'm looking to get into a bit of B&W film photography.
Can anyone recommend a decent oldish (and therefore cheapish :thumbs:) film SLR, preferably something that you can get cheap wide primes for?
Cheers,
Ed :)
raymondlin
15-05-2007, 16:47
If you already have some Canon EOS lenses then the EOS 5 is a bargain to be had now these days. If you can't find one, a EOS30 (Elan 7) is just as good.
Meh, that was quick! :thumbs: Thanks!
I think the EOS30 is a little on the high side, price-wise. I'll keep a look out on eBay (http://www.thedvdforums.com/jump2.php?url=http://www.tkqlhce.com/click-582776-5826355)for one tho.
Ed :)
Prakticas tend to be cheap, and the Helios standard lens isn't half bad (think £5 plus postage for an MTL3).
Higher up the scale the Olympus stuff is superb value for money - any camera from the OM10 on would be great with the 50mm f/1.8 Zuiko standard lens - think £15 ish for the OM10, £30ish for OM20 and 30. (Worth the extra for manual control and a proper exposure compensation dial).
Best bet is to get something your current lenses will fit though - carrying two systems is a pain in the backside (especially if you have a rangefinder and a 120 format folder along too... :) )
How wide are you expecting wide primes to be, 28mm tends to be about where they bottom out.
Basically, the systems fall into a few catagorys
A) "Popular" brands (Nikon, Canon) - expensive, although not entirely backwards compatible, people who still use films tend to go for brands they know.
B) ones backwards compatible, so will fit with some (Pentax) - Relatively expensive, but you can use the relatively cheap lenses on something like a K10D. I'm feeling the pinch when it comes to the cheap glass I came to expect from my minolta.
C) ones had lens mounts changed completely when it came to autofocus (Olympus, Minolta) - CHEAP primes, cheap systems
D) Russian / GDR stuff. Prakticas, Zenth, etc. Cheap, but reliability is much more hit and miss than jap SLR's
In addition to the Olympus's, the Minolta X-700, X-500, X-570, X-300 and X-370 are all also excellent value. Take a look at Direct Link (http://www.thedvdforums.com/jump2.php?url=http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-1751-2978-71/1?AID=5463217&PID=582776&mpre=http%3A//cgi.ebay.co.uk/Minolta-X-300-auto-200x-flash-50mm-1-1-7-200-1-4-5-L_W0QQitemZ330117457112QQihZ014QQcategoryZ15237QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Olympus vs Minolta - I'd side with minolta myself, the bokeh on minolta primes is so spot on! The X-700 is a very useable camera.
The pentax system is really great if you want to use a digital with the same set of primes. The ME-Super feels lovely in the hand, although lack of speed setting dial is a bit of a pain, but the electronic system is more than useable. Its not exactly matrix metering either.
You can pick up a great film SLR for virtually nothing nowadays (eg Pentax K1000, ME Super, Olympus OM10's, 20's etc. All are excellent).
There are plenty of cheap wide manual primes for both systems.
Nikon and Canon lenses are a bit more expensive - however you can buy adapters (most are no more than a fiver) to fit almost any type of lens to an EOS mount - which gives you entry to an entire universe of cheap manual lenses (eg M42, Olympus, Nikon etc)
You might also want to consider a cheap range-finder camera if you're going to get into "classic" street photography. Small, unobtrusive and cool!
Wow guys, thanks for the info!
I have a 20D and a few too many lenses at the moment. It would be nice to have a canon EF camera but tbh, for the price some of these old film cameras it would be rude not too. Besides, I dont have a lot I could use on a film camera (ef-s and sigma dc)
To that end, I quite fancy the look of the Olympus and Minolta systems.... eBay (http://www.thedvdforums.com/jump2.php?url=http://www.tkqlhce.com/click-582776-5826355), here I come!
Thanks!
Let us know what you end up getting.
Why not try old manual lenses on your 20D before hitting film? I use a variety of manual focus lenses (Nikon, Olympus, Carl Zeiss Jena, Tamron, Vivitar etc) on my 20D - all via adapters. The build and image quality of some of these old lenses is fantastic - and lots of them can be picked up for £10-15.
Check this forum for more info:
http://forum.manualfocus.org/
I took these pictures with a Vivitar 135mm/f2.8 lens. It cost me about £7 from ebay:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/242/458053383_4b6aeb9f1d.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/181/473891970_5dfad33661.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/252/458053477_99f5ea0375.jpg
Wow, those shots aren't half bad!
I have a 135mm CZJ, plus adaptor, for the 20D which is pretty awesome. Unfortunately, it's a bugger to focus.
My main reason for going to film is to try out b&w film. For everything else I'll stick with the 20D.
As it stands, I fancy the look of the Olympus OM20 and the Minolta X700. There seems to be an absolute wealth of info about the OM20 and lenses and comparatively little about the X700 and MD/MC lenses. (from a quick google).
Interesting stuff...
Ed :)
http://www.rokkorfiles.com/index.html is a good place to start on minolta. TBH any lens with the minolta badge will be a quality lens, don't get fooled by "Rokkor" markings - just indicates age. MC is also fine as long as you don't use program mode.
The X-700's finger activated shutter was definately a nice feature.
Black and white - proper B&W film will generally blow a digital conversion out the water, much more so than colour. In my opinion of course. But theres nothing like Efke 25 or HP5 and any photoshop plugin and just pants ;)
My main reason for going to film is to try out b&w film
Fair enough. B&W film does have a quality that's difficult to reproduce with digital and it's a real shame to see quality film cameras which may have cost hundreds of pounds back in the day now being regarded as obsolete.
It's also great to have a proper full frame view finder and focusing prism...
The Olympus system is a really nice one to get into. Lots of lovely small Zuiko lenses to choose from (although I'd probably go for an EOS just because it's adaptable with the lenses I mentioned)
I'm sure you'll have fun whatever you choose :thumbs:
Whatever you buy and depending on its age, check the light seals around the back. They're often made of foam and degrade over time.
You can buy kits to replace them on a DIY basis, but factor their cost into the purchase and ask the seller if/when they were previously replaced.
Also, there is foam inside the camera's throat around the focus screen that the mirror hits when the shutter is triggered. Check that that hasn't degraded as well.
EDIT : That didn't quite read as expected! If you want it done professionally you need to factor that into the cost. If you want to do it on a DIY basis, it can be quite cheap.
This seller of Camera foam (http://www.thedvdforums.com/jump2.php?url=http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-1751-2978-71/1?AID=5463217&PID=582776&mpre=http%3A//search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZintersliceQQhtZ-1) ( interslice ), is often recommended. It'll do 6 cameras apparently for USD7.50.
stu. gregory
16-05-2007, 05:58
Im after a nikon slr camera, can anyone suggest a good model around the £50 range?
Best bet is to get something your current lenses will fit though - carrying two systems is a pain in the backside (especially if you have a rangefinder and a 120 format folder along too... )
Im gonna take john C advice and stick with my nikon lenses, nice thinking on the wave length of lumping around loads of different kit. :thumbs:
Im after a nikon slr camera, can anyone suggest a good model around the £50 range?
Im gonna take john C advice and stick with my nikon lenses, nice thinking on the wave length of lumping around loads of different kit. :thumbs:
If you have 'G' type lenses you should bear that in mind as older Nikon bodies cannot control the aperture from the body. They'll still work, but only at maximum aperture.
That didn't quite read as expected! If you want it done professionally you need to factor that into the cost. If you want to do it on a DIY basis, it can be quite cheap.
This seller of Camera foam (http://www.thedvdforums.com/jump2.php?url=http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-1751-2978-71/1?AID=5463217&PID=582776&mpre=http%3A//search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZintersliceQQhtZ-1) ( interslice ), is often recommended. It'll do 6 cameras apparently for USD7.50.
I'd never turn down a camera over seals, they're cheap and generally a straightforward job to do yourself. I'd be more keen on asking
Is the lens clean, focusing smoothly, aperture ring clicking and most importantly free from fungus
Does the shutter (Less so with SLR), meter and electronics gubbins all work accurately?- Generally you need to worry about this a lot more with rangefinders for some reason.
To me buying a autofocus film camera (Which you'll tend to do if your keeping your current lens system) kinda defeats the whole point of getting a film camera - manual focusing and a closer relationship to all of the factors involved, as a machine isn't deciding for you. Each to their own.
For impromptu light seals, try covering the back of the camera with gaffer tape (just make sure the film's loaded in there first). :thumbs:
I'd never turn down a camera over seals, they're cheap and generally a straightforward job to do yourself.
Exactly - very easy job indeed, and the materials to do loads of cameras can be had for next to nothing. Replacing a mirror bumper is slightly more problematic (but largely becaase of the risk of getting gunk/solvent on the mirror).
I'd be more keen on asking
Is the lens clean, focusing smoothly, aperture ring clicking and most importantly free from fungus
Does the shutter (Less so with SLR), meter and electronics gubbins all work accurately?- Generally you need to worry about this a lot more with rangefinders for some reason.
I'd modify that to say "Compact Rangefinders". They tend to have problems largely because they're light, compact (and thus complex) designs. The leaf shutters in particular are prone to sticking simply because of the relatively small amounts of force used to open and close them (unlike the meatier shutter assemblies on most SLRs).
To me buying a autofocus film camera (Which you'll tend to do if your keeping your current lens system) kinda defeats the whole point of getting a film camera - manual focusing and a closer relationship to all of the factors involved, as a machine isn't deciding for you. Each to their own.
Depends - I have two AF film bodies, and tbh they have their place. The viewfinders and ERFs are generally good enough to focus by hand when the occasion demands, and AF and modern matrix metering can be useful to have.
I'm after a nikon slr camera, can anyone suggest a good model around the £50 range? In the manual focus range, this should net you an ok FG, possibly an FE - you can get EMs for buttons, so think about that too if you don't mind no manual control (they're great backup bodies in any case). The FG is the nicer feeling camera to me, but lacks DoF preview, and you shouldn't really mount non AI lenses on it.
FMs tend to go for more (essentially an FE with a mechanical shutter, meaning you can shoot without batteries if you want/need to).
These will mount and meter with AI, AIS AF-N and AF-D lenses. As mentioned above, G lenses will only work at max aperture.
I'm less well up on the AF film bodies, but own two F90s (an F90x and an F90) and would recommend either - these will push your budget though. Check condition (they're prone to bleeding LCDs) and that the AF system brings both viewfinder and lens to focus (I had one where the two didn't match up, making it effectively a manual focus body). Read compatibility charts for the lenses you have so you know how limited (or not) they'll be. I believe the F80 is also good, although I've never used one. Both these will set you back around £60-£80, I'd guess.
For impromptu light seals, try covering the back of the camera with gaffer tape (just make sure the film's loaded in there first). :thumbs:
Shall we all play spot the Holga owner now, or later? ;)
Just to be clear, I wasn't saying dismiss a camera on the basis of light seals, only bear it in mind if the buyer is not confident about doing it. Not everybody is and professionally repair can be expensive and can be problematic ( read the horror stories on the net :eek: ). I also mentioned it to highlight a potential problem area that may be otherwise missed.
FEs are great cameras. I have 2 ( one chrome & one black ). They do have one mechanical speed incidentally so they can be used at 1/90th with expired or missing batteries. Fastest shutter speed on the original FE was 1/1000th which went up to 1/4000th ( IIRC ) on the FE2. Again, as pointed out, the EM is amazingly small and light but it only has one settable shutter speed ( 1/90th - also mechanical in the event of battery failure ) as it is very much an aperture priority body. I have one of those as well!
Shall we all play spot the Holga owner now, or later? ;) :razz:
Im after a nikon slr camera, can anyone suggest a good model around the £50 range?
Stu, check out <a href="http://www.cameraquest.com/nikonslr.htm">Cameraquest's Guide to Nikon SLRs</a>.
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