View Full Version : Lost 3x20 - The Man Behind the Curtain - SPOILERS!
cockbongo
10-05-2007, 02:37
Well, not quite the revelatory episode we were hoping for, but lots of interest, and that ending......! And now we've got some retrospective interest injected in the "Hurley's Van" episode....
So how come neither Doug "Tooms" Hutchison or Richard Alpert have aged a day since being on the island, but Ben and his dad did? All part of these mysterious healing properties? Also, it seems that after all his "being a man of his word", Ben turns out to be a big lying git all along. I do hope we haven't seen the last of Dharma and we do actually get to find out what the hell they were really doing on the island (besides the whole Valenzetti equation thing)...
So its all uphill to the finale then. How many more must die????? :eek: :shrug:
36Degrees
10-05-2007, 04:12
Starts with someone running in a jungle - Check
Hurley says dude - Check.
The whole Ben/Locke dynamic is brilliant, Jacob... well I thought it was an Urn he was refering too, rather than an empty chair.
The whole idea I had that Ben knew that Juliette would betray him and work with the cast against the Others was half-dismissed this episode when he appeared to have no idea about the whereabouts of the recording of that tape - maybe it's a backup plan knowing that Locke would give it to Sawyer to warn them....
Locke punching Russian Patch, brilliant. (It wasn't a leathal dose folks).
Xenomorph
10-05-2007, 06:02
WTF Jacob?
There was someone there. If you freeze frame. Who or what I don't know.
Good episode. We finally know what happened to DHARMA. Great ending.
NicolaUK
10-05-2007, 06:05
Great episode!
I thought Jacob would turn out to be the rabbit. Am wondering how Ben turned out to be running the show when Richard's still around?
Xenomorph
10-05-2007, 06:06
Just had an epiphany. The ash Locke picked up? What if that's dormant smoke monster?
Whatever Jacob is it moved things about, telekinetically? Then why not the ash?
NicolaUK
10-05-2007, 06:12
I just thought it was gunpowder :shrug:
Xenomorph
10-05-2007, 06:13
I just thought it was gunpowder :shrug:
Could be...
TeOtWaWkI
10-05-2007, 06:25
WTF Jacob?
There was someone there. If you freeze frame. Who or what I don't know.
Good episode. We finally know what happened to DHARMA. Great ending.
If you freeze frame it looks like
Locke with a wig
Xenomorph
10-05-2007, 06:29
If you freeze frame it looks like
Locke with a wig
If I was a betting man I would say that.
* Jacob is an entity of some type with telekinetic abilities.
* Jacob projects around the island using the ash ( smoke monster ).
* Jacob can make people see things.
So either he is showing people what they want to see ( Jack's dad, Kate's horse, etc ) or he is all physical as smoke monster, or a combination of both.
To what end I don't know.
Edit: Is this why Walt was so important? Did he have the same abilities as Jacob?
cockbongo
10-05-2007, 09:18
Or is Jacob a manifestation of Ben's, in the same way that Locke saw his mother, Jack saw his dad, etc...
ian_davies
10-05-2007, 09:28
Christ, if they've killed off Locke as well, there really isn't much left for me here!
Regardless, I thought it was a fascinating episode, quite a bit about Dharma was clarified, and we finally got to meet Jacob. Sort of.
My girlfriend hit the nail on the head with Jacob I think. Ben was clearly surprised that Locke couldn't see him. Perhaps it relates to the rite of passage Ben was talking about a couple of episodes ago? And as Locke did not actually kill his father, he could not see him.
gazdude23
10-05-2007, 11:25
Locke's dead??!?!?
Got a feeling he won't be. Probably use his mircaulous healing powers :notworthy
DrVenkman
10-05-2007, 12:12
Oh and about the Ash. It's just from the Volcano surely? It was even mentioned in the episode that a Volcano errupted many years before. I don't think you should read into it too much.
Oh and I forgot, Ben's nod to Richard about not getting older.
You do remember Birthdays don't you?
I just thought it was because they'd been on the Island such a long time that they forgot about being 'normal'. Not that Richard is actually incredibly old.
cockbongo
10-05-2007, 12:49
I'm starting to subscribe to the theory that the Others may be descendants of the crew of the Black Rock - or even the actual crew themselves. Jacob (whatever he is) is obviously very old and to be scared of something like a torch...Whetever mysterious powers the island (or is it just Jacob?) has it seems to have kept the Others alive for a long time. Perhaps they're terrified of whatever powers he does have and by surrounding his house by some kind of gunpowder type substance they have the ability to blow the place up if necessary....
Since the Black Rock was a ship owned by one of Hanso's ancestors, it surely wasn't coincidence that Hanso ends up sending Dharma to the very island the boat ended up on in order to take advantage of its particular "properties"...Having said that, I think with the whole four toed statue and totem pole-type things we're meant to think that there's been a civilisation there a lot longer than 150 years or so....
Dunno, i had it all straight in my head this morning and now it's gone....shouldn't have stayed up so late....
another excellent episode
I've really enjoyed lost since the 2nd half of the season started.
KennyVader
10-05-2007, 13:04
Oh and about the Ash. It's just from the Volcano surely? It was even mentioned in the episode that a Volcano errupted many years before. I don't think you should read into it too much.
The ash looked like it was in a neat line though, like a big circle around the creepy Jacob house, to keep him in there, like in The Skeleton Key and various voodoo films? He didn't like the torch light much did he!
My phone bleeped during the Creepy Jacob House Scene and actually made me jump - it was pretty well done!
Yes you definitely see someone (with hair) sitting in the chair for about 5 frames just after Ben says "you've had your fun" and gets thrown backwards.
I'd also like to know how come Ben is the boss man and not never-aging Richard! As usual for Lost the episode asked more questions than it answered :brickwall
"Help Me" :?: :eek: ... so Lost is a Ghost story now :clap:
Nice to find out that supposedly throwaway character "Roger the Work Man" character from the supposedly random "Hurley finds a van" episode was actually Ben's dad! Wonder if they planned that all along or adjusted the story line when the viewers went mad about how filler-ish the "Hurley finds a van" episode was! Either way ... :notworthy
Jacob with the brightness cranked up...
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/5290/picture1yq6.jpg
Still mulling over the episode hmm
cockbongo
10-05-2007, 13:45
Now that, to me, looks like a vaguely 19th Century looking outfit....
Have to say, at first glance, it does look like Locke, in a wig, wearing a 19th century outfit :nuts:
Here's a closeup of Jacob - http://bp3.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/RkKWtpsh6XI/AAAAAAAAFRE/CHJIyPT10d4/s1600-h/Image13.jpg The forehead shape and the eyes are damn near identical to Locke IMO.
What a shocker when Ben shot Locke. Couldn't quite believe it had happened. And how about eye-liner boy not aging? Something tells me he's been knocking about for over a hundred years :nuts:
Great Episode, never noticed Jacob in the chair but thanks for the screen grab.
The trailer for next week looks like it's going to just as good.
IMO Locke will probably reappear in the final episode to everyone's surprise.
DrVenkman
10-05-2007, 14:03
Yeah, Locke is going to come back of course, we know it, but does Ben know it?
It's odd that Ben would shoot him anyway, given that he knows that Locke used to be in a Wheelchair.
I'm thinking that Ben believes he has this power to kill the 'special' people, because he considers himself 'special' as well. Either way, he clearly believed that Locke would die after being shot.
So Ben's a genocidal maniac?
great episode! good to get some background info on Ben, but my god, talk about opening a can of worms re Jacob.
also good they answered the Mikhail question, at least we know he's not a clone or zombie or from another dimension (probably). :D
KennyVader
10-05-2007, 17:39
I'll be impressed if the island can heal a bullet in the chest.
Maybe it will be the Ghost of Locke that returns.
Maybe Jacob is an ancestor of Locke and so Terry O'Quinn will now switch to playing Jacob instead.
Locke dead!?! Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!
I really hope not as that'll be my favourite two characters gone, Locke and Echo. :cry:
ascender
10-05-2007, 18:21
I can't believe that with all Ben knows, and he's a clever guy too, that he'd just leave Locke there and assume he'd die.
Jacob does look like Locke with a wig. Its the bald head and shape of the forehead which looks familiar.
There's definitely some link between Ben and Locke. You saw Ben killing his father which is obviously why it was such a big thing for Locke to kill his. I guess we'll find out why later on.
Really enjoyable episode, but the writers are so clever to make you think you've learned a lot when in actual fact you've not learned much that couldn't have been explained in under 10 minutes or so.
Definitely building to the end of season cliffhanger.
I think Jacob is Alvar Hanso!
http://publish.hometown.aol.com/goldfishrich/images/alvar.jpghttp://publish.hometown.aol.com/goldfishrich/images/jacob.jpg
unrealnils
10-05-2007, 18:32
its boris the russian!
NicolaUK
10-05-2007, 18:51
Locke can't die and we didn't see a dead body.
Jacob is quite clearly Locke's ghost come back from future.
Either that or the Russian from the Pine Barrens episode of The Sopranos.
Am I seeing things, or is that a little monkey sitting on Jacob's shoulder?
Check this - http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/05/11-frames-of-jacob.html and scroll down to the widescreen caps. You can clearly see a little monkey sitting on his shoulder :nuts:
sleepy67
10-05-2007, 19:36
So Ben's a genocidal maniac?Except instead of stroking a white cat he carries a white rabbit. Oh and Ben needs to read the Evil Overlord list, he should have pumped a few rounds into Lockes shiny head.
There really into reducing Ben from an all powerful manipulator into a jumped up man who's father blamed him for his mothers demise and emotionally crippled him and who's only claim to fame is the ability to see the a projection of the dead and Jacob who may very well be dead to. Poor Ben can't even count on the support of his minions or daughter.
MrHat001
10-05-2007, 19:36
Might be nothing but when the empty chair with 'Jacob' in it was shown, for some reason the notion of Jacob Marley (the ghost from A Christmas Carol) popped into my head.
The spirit who appears to somone to show them the error of their ways. :?:
bobmushroom
10-05-2007, 19:45
so glad I came to this thread!! I thought I saw something but wasnt sure - now I know as for theories well they all make sense in my head but I don't think I can share
Aaaarrggghhhh!!... Another one of those "Answer one question, raise a zillion more" episodes........
.... I love it! :D
I guess this means there are two distinct parts to the others - the original 'whispering and never aging ones' and the normal people Ben recruited with the Dharma sub over the years.
After the purge it looked like the dead Dharma leader bloke who gave Ben's dad a job hadn't aged much either in relation to them - something significant or just more subtle makeup?
Taq
Lost at its more frustrating and best. Loved it but, man, WTF????
So many possibilities for explanation that its just pointless speculating.
Hitman2411
10-05-2007, 20:50
Lost really back on top form. Can't believe Locke is dead :eek:
Lost really back on top form. Can't believe Locke is dead :eek:
If Locke is dead, or dies before the end of the season I will eat my hat, my shoe and my cat.
He's not dead!
is he?:suspect:
They've never been able to keep a character death secret and I don't think there's been a single rumour of Locke dieing.
Fairly safe bet he isn't dead I reckon.
I think I've got a good idea of what's going on now... here's my current speculative theory:
Richard was surprised that Ben's mum had been seen. It looks like the island (or the smoke) is manifesting itself as people who have died on the island -- probably when there's a brain to examine, and pull out memories and personality. Richard etc may be manifestations like that (although we've seen Richard off-island so probably not).
I see no reason that Locke couldn't return: he had an affinity with the island, so is a good candidate for manifestation. (Season 7 is zombie season!)
Ben was able to direct the island to create a manifestation of his mother, but unconsciously: he longed for his mother and she appeared. The island/smoke helped him through her, perhaps because he's special. This is the essence of the "magic box". But given Richard's aforementioned surprise, I don't think it works for everyone's wants: Walt is somebody for whom it does work, I think. Does it work for Locke? That's been implied, but was Cooper brought to the island by the Others?
Jacob is likely therefore a manifestation himself, or _the_ manifestation: a representation of the consciousness of the island/smoke itself. I don't think he fears technology. I think that electrical or magnetic fields cause problems for whatever the mechanism is, and that sent it haywire in the shack.
About mothers and babies: is the inability to bring a child to term some sort of manifestation of the deep guilt that Ben feels about his own mother? He has an unconscious power to control the island: maybe he's accidentally made it so that the rules follow his own mother's situation. I wouldn't be surprised if his childhood friend had died before the massacre, and the healing powers of the island are his unconscious attempt to compensate for that.
I hope they don't kill him off. He is one of the best if not the best characters in this confusing yet enthralling series.
68monkey
10-05-2007, 21:25
We didn't need a Ben flashback; we needed a Ben assassination!
We didn't need a Ben flashback; we needed a Ben assassination!
You would think if Locke catches up to him by seasons' end, it'll happen.
No-one else find it creepy that the method Ben used to empty the camp when the Losties were present was a copy of the way he killed all the Dharma people?
No-one else find it creepy that the method Ben used to empty the camp when the Losties were present was a copy of the way he killed all the Dharma people?
I found the killing bit creepy, but that's all. Reminds me of that Sci-fi show with John Goodman in Eric Close's body.
You know, at the start of this episode I had a feeling Ben killed his dad, sadly I didn't have a chance to post my prediction but never mind.
Didn't see the shooting coming but I don't think Locke is dead and I don't think Ben was trying to kill him necessarily, perhaps this is a test of some kind.
Next week should be interesting with Jack spilling the beans on what he knows about the others to the castaway's. I know Juliette told them to turn the tape over but I don't think that's a sign they can trust her, she must have know they'd have done that eventually.
68monkey
10-05-2007, 21:56
You know, at the start of this episode I had a feeling Ben killed his dad, sadly I didn't have a chance to post my prediction but never mind.
That's okay. We believe you. ;)
I'm also with the camp that thinks Locke isn't dead. Heck, he survived an 8-story fall, didn't he?
Also, thinking about the anti-aging properties of the island. Batmanuel is immortal! :D But now I'm wondering about the Amelia Earhart theories and Hearat (I think it was?) Aviation, the name of the flight company in the Juliet flashback episode. . . .
Spoiler from next weeks trailer...
Bernard and Rose are back!!.. and Bernard has a Rifle!: GET IN THERE!!! :thumbs:
Did anyone else think of The Stand when we saw all the Dharma people having dropped dead where they stood?
I know that book is never away from the Lost writers' room or something!
I was sure Ben's childhood friend, Annie, was going to grow up to be Isabel but I guess not!
Alastair
10-05-2007, 23:15
Jacob looks like Kris Kristofferson
Quincunx
10-05-2007, 23:23
Did we ever see what happened to Annie?
Good episode :)
I hope that is a monkey on Jacob's shoulder, we need monkeys in Lost! Looks to me like we're going to get an eruption rather than a tsunami at some point. Interesting that Alpert seemed to think it was important if Ben's mother died on or off the island. Locke beating Mikhail made me laugh (in a good way).
Edit: I thought Jacob looked like Peter Fonda.
KennyVader
10-05-2007, 23:28
I wish they'd kill off Jack instead of Locke. He has turned into such an aggressive and annoying character. And he's a rubbish actor.
Maybe it's a parrot on Jacob's shoulder, like all good pirates have.
cockbongo
10-05-2007, 23:32
I wouldn't be surprised if his childhood friend had died before the massacre, and the healing powers of the island are his unconscious attempt to compensate for that.
I like that a lot.
I'm pretty sure that Alpert met Ben at a young age and told him he was special, but to realise how special he was and in order to achieve his potential had to get rid of the mental grip his father's behaviour had on him. He was forced to kill his father, did so, and led the Others.
Now Ben meets Locke, tells him he's special, but in order to realise how special he his and in order to achieve his potential tells him he has to lose the mental grip his father's behaviour has on him, make a "gesture" and kill his father.
The difference is, I don't think Ben is as really special as the Others think he is, and Ben knows he's in danger of being found out. He tells Locke that in order to be that special guy, you'll have to kill your father, knowing fine well that Locke is incabable of doing such a thing. The look on his face when Locke re-enters the camp was priceless. As for Jacob - well i don't think Ben can see him at all. He definitely *exists* in some way or another, and Ben is pretending he can communicate with him, but when Locke turns up and actually hears something and catches a glimpse, well it proves he's special in a way Ben isn't. Rather than being exposed to the rest of the Others, or have Locke take his own rightful place as "leader", Ben shoots Locke.
Maybe.
If he was really going to kill him wouldn't he have gone for the head-shot or at least multiple hits?
Regarding all the theories now popping up, one thing we all know by now is that whatever we think it is it won't be!
sleepy67
11-05-2007, 01:48
I've been thinking about Bens timeline:
He appears to be born in the early 60's going by the car and clothes. He looks about 10 when he arrives on the Island so early 70's which fits in with when the Dharma Initiative was formed. Many years later he kills his father in the Purge. This must take place before 1988 as that is when Rousseau arrives. Thus the last possible date for the Purge is 22nd Dec 1987 placing Ben in his late 20's
However Mikhail said he was present during the purge and he didn't arrive on the Island till 1993. And the watch Ben looked at in the van before gassing his father wasn't sold till 1992. Now whilst the watch could be a production error*. Its impossible to reconcile Mikhails story with Rousseaus and given that Alex appears to be her child my monies on Mikhail being a liar.
*Lostpedia
Shingster
11-05-2007, 02:14
I guess this means there are two distinct parts to the others - the original 'whispering and never aging ones' and the normal people Ben recruited with the Dharma sub over the years.
I think there's 3 parts: The "Natives" whom Richard is a part of, The Dharma people and scientists brought to the island since Dharma were kiled off, and finally the "Spirits" who are behind the jungle whispering, and who I assume the Black Smoke and Jakob belong to.
I think the reason Ben is the "leader" over the older natives like Richard is because he has the strongest ability to commune with the "Spirits", and the reason he shot Locke was because he was a serious threat to this position. Perhaps ben can occasionally see Jakob, but can't hear him, hence ben saying "because you heard him" before he shot Locke.
The big question is why was Jakob crying out for help? Could Ben have some sort of control over him in some way, or maybe is it just the island?
Its impossible to reconcile Mikhails story with Rousseaus and given that Alex appears to be her child my monies on Mikhail being a liar.
Unusual man with eye-patch turns out to be lying in Lost.
News at 11.
Grandmaster
11-05-2007, 07:06
smst: in terms of your speculation (not sure why you spoilered it as you have as much idea as the rest of us what's going to happen) I think you seem to have forgotten that Walt's "powers" manifested off the island during one (or more) of Michael's flashbacks.
Grandmaster
11-05-2007, 07:07
The big question is why was Jakob crying out for help? Could Ben have some sort of control over him in some way, or maybe is it just the island?
Perhaps he is imprisoned within the ring of ash/gunpower/whatever that surrounds his shack.
robzinski
11-05-2007, 07:43
I've been thinking about Bens timeline:
He appears to be born in the early 60's going by the car and clothes. He looks about 10 when he arrives on the Island so early 70's which fits in with when the Dharma Initiative was formed. Many years later he kills his father in the Purge. This must take place before 1988 as that is when Rousseau arrives. Thus the last possible date for the Purge is 22nd Dec 1987 placing Ben in his late 20's
However Mikhail said he was present during the purge and he didn't arrive on the Island till 1993. And the watch Ben looked at in the van before gassing his father wasn't sold till 1992. Now whilst the watch could be a production error*. Its impossible to reconcile Mikhails story with Rousseaus and given that Alex appears to be her child my monies on Mikhail being a liar.
*Lostpedia
Why must the purge take place before Rousseau arrived? Surely the gas attack and results is the best explanation for 'The Sickness' that she talked about, but being where they were on the island instead of dying instantly they received a lesser dosage causing a slow painfull death.
This would allow Rousseau to be on the island for a while with her crew, whilst both Dharma and The Hostiles were both there.
smst: in terms of your speculation (not sure why you spoilered it as you have as much idea as the rest of us what's going to happen) I think you seem to have forgotten that Walt's "powers" manifested off the island during one (or more) of Michael's flashbacks.
I spoilered it in case I was right, but I agree it was unnecessary so I've removed the blackness.
Good point about Walt. Maybe Walt has an innate ability to make things happen, on the island or not, and all the other manifestations are a product of the island. The others were interested in Walt because he exhibits the same powers. (Maybe Michael wasn't real! Walt might have dreamed him into coming to Australia to rescue him after his mum died -- an unconscious desire.)
Perhaps Jacob was a man with the same powers, drawn to the island many years ago. The island's unusual magnetic properties are amplifying his power.
Highlander
11-05-2007, 08:13
How many more buildings are they going to find on this island that the losties have missed!! :nuts:
Also, if Richard is a native, how did he end up working for Widmore (was it Widmore?).
Great episode, didn't see the ending coming!!
How many more buildings are they going to find on this island that the losties have missed!! :nuts:
Also, if Richard is a native, how did he end up working for Widmore (was it Widmore?).
Great episode, didn't see the ending coming!!
I keep thinking of that scene on the alternate DVD cut of Anchorman where they're lost in the woods and thinking about resorting to cannibalism while in the background there's a load of fast-food joint signs peeking over the tops of the trees. :nuts:
wonderfibre
11-05-2007, 09:26
Also, if Richard is a native, how did he end up working for Widmore (was it Widmore?).
We saw him working for Mittelos Bioscience. As far as we know that's one of Ben's/The Island's companies and not part of Widmore
Highlander
11-05-2007, 09:38
Ah yes, I remember now. Mittelos Bioscience. But still, he's a native of the island, and ends up as a corporate big wig?? Also, how is Ben connected to the company? Just because he (was it him or was it 'the Hostiles'?) kills off the Dharma initiative, doesn't mean he inherits everything on and off the island!! Lots of questions, which may or may not get answered!!
I think Mittelos is just a front. Its not a real company. But its easier to approach people saying your from a company as opposed to saying your some bloke that lives on an island where really weird things happen and that you haven't aged a day since the 60s.
plus it's an anagram of Lost Time...
Sammy709Sony930
11-05-2007, 10:44
This is hotting up nicely, great Episode!
Something bugging me, where did Walt/Michael go to in the boat?
I'm sure Ben "gave them his word" that they just had to head in a certain direction and they'd be rescued.
If so, how come the helipcoptor chick didn't mention that eveyone on flight 815 died except a father and son who has strange tales to tell about some island?
After Ben stating in this episode that he lied about being born on the island I presume that he lied to Walt/Michael and they are floating around dead.
Michael and Walt... Walt is back before seasons end I'm sure I heard. The guy who plays Michael isn't so keen to come back, but he's been negotiating with the producers, most likely to hit up season 4.
KennyVader
11-05-2007, 11:16
The submarine was very visible when KiddyBen arrived at the island, there was a blatant shot of it with them all walking up the jetty to the Namaste Girls. So, looks like that has been the only way to the island for the 30 or 40 years or whatever it's supposed to be that Ben has been there. And if Locke did blow it up, they're stuffed.
Nah! There's probably an invisible one just around the corner!
KennyVader
11-05-2007, 11:25
lol. Or maybe Season 4 is going to cover their attempts to refloat the Black Rock, while GhostlyJacob rains fireballs down on them.
But don't forget they still have Desmond's sailboat that they took from Jin, Sun and Sayid but where they have hidden it, I have no idea
Sammy709Sony930
11-05-2007, 11:51
What about young ben "following the white rabbit" through the sonic fence ...
Sammy709Sony930
11-05-2007, 11:53
There are screenshots that clearly show a persons image in the Jacob scene.
http://forum.lostpedia.com/showthread.php?t=4859
TimJBart
11-05-2007, 12:44
Lost has got great recently, but so much has happened over time that I am concerned that when everything finally is explained over the next few years, I'm not going to understand any of it because I'll have forgotten so many sub-plots!
There's just too much to remember!
Next week should be interesting with Jack spilling the beans on what he knows about the others to the castaway's. I know Juliette told them to turn the tape over but I don't think that's a sign they can trust her, she must have know they'd have done that eventually.
Aside from the turgid love triangle soap opera this is the show's biggest failing - characters don't act like anyone else on the planet would act in such a situation. With all the stuff that has happened to them over the course of the last few weeks/months - the attacks, kidnappings, murders, torture - they receive a tape recording stolen from the perpetrators, exposing a mole in their midst. What do they do? Listen for 10 seconds then hit stop. They have to be told that there might be something else on the tape and that perhaps they should check. :nuts:
I like Lost, and the quality is certainly improving towards the end of this season, but having otherwise rational characters do stupid things in order to advance the plot is just lazy writing and very frustrating to watch.
ascender
11-05-2007, 17:57
Yip, there's no way one character will spill the beans. We just have to accept that will never happen I think. Its annoying that these supposedly intelligent and wily characters won't ask the obvious, but I gave up hoping they'd sort that plot problem out back in season 2. Just accept it and you'll enjoy it more.
I forgot about the ring of ash/gunpowder round the cabin area. With the wrecked ship, does that give us an idea of the time when Jacob arrived on the island?
I thought Michael and Walt's story was considered to be over according to writers? Did I hear that right?
Spooksta
11-05-2007, 17:58
W
So how come neither Doug "Tooms" Hutchison or Richard Alpert have aged a day since being on the island, but Ben and his dad did?
They were born on the island
Does Richard also moonlight in the band Maroon 5? :thinking:
They were born on the island
Must have been painful births..
do you think we'll see the teacher again?
only ask as it seems a bit odd Samantha Mathis would turn up in the show, with really only one scene
unrealnils
11-05-2007, 22:04
shes done it before http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000526/
scaramanga
11-05-2007, 22:46
Jacob looks like Kris Kristofferson
I thought that too! But more locke in a wig :) And for the monkey.... he has to be the capt of the black rock. I still think the hostiles/natives are the pirates from the black rock. Seems pretty obvious to me. BUT how did richard get so well educatedand have such a good calm speaking voice (for a pirate...)....
As for Ben, he must be the leader because he told the other 'pirates' he can talk to their former leader who died in some way before being marooned on the island.
Not quite sure about the whole richard working for a company, the others/pirates and jakob having an interest in fertility/science in general. AND we still havent seen much about the history of the island... Im thinking the four toed statue has a big part in the story...
Love it :) Has my imagination running wild!
Next week is Richard's flashback - he says "Arghh Jim Lad" a lot!
So, do we now know what the jungle whispers are even if we don't exactly know how they are there?! :nuts:
It's all very Pirates of the Caribbean just off Portland: Curse of the Black Rock isn't it!
I'm not convinced about this theory that they all come off the ship: wasn't it a slaver's ship? If that's the case, there seems to be a much lower proportion of blacks in the Others than you'd expect.
KennyVader
12-05-2007, 08:39
I'm not convinced about this theory that they all come off the ship: wasn't it a slaver's ship? If that's the case, there seems to be a much lower proportion of blacks in the Others than you'd expect.
Maybe it floundered while on the return journey to pick up more slaves so just had regular crew on board :shrug: ? 50% chance I guess.
68monkey
12-05-2007, 13:11
What's with all of the talk about pirates? :thinking: Wasn't The Black Rock a slave-trading vessel? And if that's the case, I can't help wondering if there's any significance to the Catch-22 novel of Naomi's being Portuguese, as well as the crew hired by Penny to look for Desmond (we think, at least). I can't remember if this has been covered in the series yet or not, but odds seem high that a slave ship from an earlier century would have been Portuguese.
Perhaps that's what all the people digging rocks was about at the beginning of the season.. Those ******* slave traders just won't let it rest will they.
68monkey
12-05-2007, 14:01
What about young ben "following the white rabbit" through the sonic fence ...
And if you go chasing rabbits
And you know you're going to fall
Tell them a hookah smoking caterpillar has given you the call
:D
I'm surprised there isn't a character called Alice yet, or is there? :suspect:
Maybe Jefferson Airplane is the key to solving the whole Lost riddle!? Maybe it'll all end when the Starship arrives! :nuts: :D
Finally caught up on the last ten (10!!!!!!) episodes over the last couple of days. I'd started being almost disinterested this season, but the last few episodes have been great!
I'm wondering if there's a similar type of situation as Star Trek: Insurrection:
1. There are a group of indigenous people who are rendered immortal due to some weird properties of the island (properties which also make it near impossible to find).
2. The Dharma Foundation discover the island, realise the potential, and attempt to find ways to harness the island's power for the outside world. The 'immortals' are concerned about this as it may adversely affect them, so they purge the Dharma employees.
3. Ever since, the 'immortals' have been distrusting of anyone who finds the island, except individuals who seem to have an affinity with it (Ben and Locke) as manifested in visions etc.
I would guess the 'immortals' have been around for thousands of years. They are the ones who built the statue; maybe even worshipped the black smoke/Jacob.
Regardless, this series has once again become essential viewing for me :D
GAmbrose
13-05-2007, 01:17
Finally caught up on the last ten (10!!!!!!) episodes over the last couple of days. I'd started being almost disinterested this season, but the last few episodes have been great!
I'm wondering if there's a similar type of situation as Star Trek: Insurrection:
1. There are a group of indigenous people who are rendered immortal due to some weird properties of the island (properties which also make it near impossible to find).
2. The Dharma Foundation discover the island, realise the potential, and attempt to find ways to harness the island's power for the outside world. The 'immortals' are concerned about this as it may adversely affect them, so they purge the Dharma employees.
3. Ever since, the 'immortals' have been distrusting of anyone who finds the island, except individuals who seem to have an affinity with it (Ben and Locke) as manifested in visions etc.
I would guess the 'immortals' have been around for thousands of years. They are the ones who built the statue; maybe even worshipped the black smoke/Jacob.
Regardless, this series has once again become essential viewing for me :D
Thats one of the better theories I have read so far, I'd have to go with that.
Kudos for the Insurrection reference as well :)
Gary A
TeOtWaWkI
13-05-2007, 09:23
Finally caught up on the last ten (10!!!!!!) episodes over the last couple of days. I'd started being almost disinterested this season, but the last few episodes have been great!
I'm wondering if there's a similar type of situation as Star Trek: Insurrection:
1. There are a group of indigenous people who are rendered immortal due to some weird properties of the island (properties which also make it near impossible to find).
2. The Dharma Foundation discover the island, realise the potential, and attempt to find ways to harness the island's power for the outside world. The 'immortals' are concerned about this as it may adversely affect them, so they purge the Dharma employees.
3. Ever since, the 'immortals' have been distrusting of anyone who finds the island, except individuals who seem to have an affinity with it (Ben and Locke) as manifested in visions etc.
I would guess the 'immortals' have been around for thousands of years. They are the ones who built the statue; maybe even worshipped the black smoke/Jacob.
Regardless, this series has once again become essential viewing for me :D
Now that makes a lot of sense! Great post
Spooksta
13-05-2007, 10:28
What about the numbers!!
And everyone (well the main characters and indepth flashbacks) whos crash landed on this island seems to have had a bad father/childhood.
But the bloke who recruited Uncle Rico into Darma hadn't aged either had he? So why did Ben & Rico while he hadn't?
What about the numbers!!
And everyone (well the main characters and indepth flashbacks) whos crash landed on this island seems to have had a bad father/childhood.
Jack - Check (though his father did provide for him)
Kate - Check (stepfather though, and not in childhood)
Sawyer - Check (but his father wasn't necessarily a bad man)
Locke - Check (but his father wasn't around when he was a kid)
Sun - Check (same situation as Jack really)
Jin - Check (though his father looked like he was fantastic with him)
Hurley - Check (wasn't around, but seemed genuinely nice when he came back)
Sayid - Nothing confirmed
Charlie - Nothing confirmed
Claire - Nothing confirmed
Rose - Nothing confirmed
Bernard - Nothing confirmed
Michael - Nothing confirmed
Walt - He seemed to have an ok childhood, and Michael really cared about him
They're all the ones I can think of offhand. The bigger questions for me are:
1. The numbers (I think this is a massive red herring that will be put down to coincidence: Inputting numbers was a Dharma test - the numbers are broadcast every so often to inform Dharma personnel on the outside that the button is still being pushed, and thats where Hurley's mate got the numbers from etc).
2. Murderers. How many of the people on this island killed people before they came? Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Sayid, Hurley, Anna Lucia, Paulo and Nicky, Jin (possibly) and then Michael and Charlie when they got to the island. Being a murderer is far less likely than having daddy issues. I don't think this will be explained at all.
As long as they don't cop out with the "they're all dead and in purgatory" answer or the "it was all a dream" answer I'll be able to accept whatever explanations they give. There were unanswered questions at the end of 'Twin Peaks' but I loved that show too. :D
_____________________________________________________________________
Woo Hoo, 1000 posts (and it only took seven years!)
But the bloke who recruited Uncle Rico into Darma hadn't aged either had he? So why did Ben & Rico while he hadn't?
Rico? Who's he? If you mean Roger, then I'm not sure the guy who recruited them hadn't aged (maybe he was just using Grecian 2000).
Alternatively, some people who come to the island do seem to have some sort of communion with it. Maybe he was one of them (hence being in charge even though he was young) but he didn't embrace the natives in the way Ben and Locke have. :shrug:
sleepy67
13-05-2007, 13:41
Murderers. How many of the people on this island killed people before they came? Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Sayid, Hurley, Anna Lucia, Paulo and Nicky, Jin (possibly) ... Being a murderer is far less likely than having daddy issues. I don't think this will be explained at all.Jack and Hurley didn't kill anyone prior to the Island. Hurley blamed himself for an accident he wasn't responsible for. Jack's a doctor, there is a huge difference between murder and having a patient die in spite of all your best efforts to save them.
Walt - He seemed to have an ok childhood, and Michael really cared about him
But he didn't know his father growing up, and his step-father kinda abandoned him...
wonderfibre
13-05-2007, 14:24
Claire - Nothing confirmed
Claire's dad is Jack's dad....
ghost.ottercrab
13-05-2007, 15:14
The bigger questions for me are:
1. The numbers (I think this is a massive red herring that will be put down to coincidence: Inputting numbers was a Dharma test - the numbers are broadcast every so often to inform Dharma personnel on the outside that the button is still being pushed, and thats where Hurley's mate got the numbers from etc).
Weren't the numbers explained in the 'Lost Experience' as the Valenzetti Equation?
BlueDwarf
13-05-2007, 16:27
I can't wait to find out more about Ezra James Sharkington.
Jack and Hurley didn't kill anyone prior to the Island. Hurley blamed himself for an accident he wasn't responsible for. Jack's a doctor, there is a huge difference between murder and having a patient die in spite of all your best efforts to save them.
I kind of got the impression from the way it was shot that Jack made an incorrect medical decision in treating his wife to be instead of the driver of the other car (was it Shannon's dad?), effectively signing his death warrant. He also allowed his father to do surgery on someone even though he knew he was under the influence.
Similar to Hurley, I was making a bit of a stretch with Jack. I suppose it would have been more accurate to say "responsible for peoples deaths."
I didn't do the Lost experience so I don't know if the numbers have already been explained to an extent.
Forgot about Claire's dad being Jack's. I suppose that puts her in the neither good nor bad father category, since he simply wasn't around.
Rico? Who's he? If you mean Roger, . . .
Yeah, he played Uncle Rico in Napoleon Dynamite :D
But I'm pretty sure Ben when went up to the recruitment guy post-purge and closed his eyes, he was still pretty sprightly looking.
ian_davies
13-05-2007, 17:57
Yeah, he played Uncle Rico in Napoleon Dynamite :D
But I'm pretty sure Ben when went up to the recruitment guy post-purge and closed his eyes, he was still pretty sprightly looking.
That completely passed me by! And I usually notice stuff like that! Maybe it was the lack of moustache that had me confused :thinking:
cockbongo
13-05-2007, 17:57
I can't wait to find out more about Ezra James Sharkington.
Now that did make me laugh. It was a good podcast this week.
webslinger
13-05-2007, 18:58
Weren't the numbers explained in the 'Lost Experience' as the Valenzetti Equation?
yep - i thought so too
Personally I think the fatherhood thing is more being ashamed of them. From what I can recall-
Jack was ashamed of his dad for the whole drunken surgeon,
Claire was ashamed of him for leaving her i guess,
Hurley for being abandoned by his dad
Sawyer was probably ashamed of his dad for killing himself and Sawyer's mum
Locke obviously ashamed of his dad for the kidney thing and the big push
Sun for what he made Jin do
Jin was ashamed for being the son of a fisherman so he is ashamed, and that's assuming that he was Jin's dad which we aren't sure of with his mum sleeping around.
The others aren't really known but Walt was abandoned by his dad when Michael signed away his custodial rights perhaps and to be fair Walt didn't get on with Michael for quite a bit of the series.
Kate, on the other hand did hate her father because it was her biological father that she actually killed (although she didn't know it at the time) if I remember correctly.
That's my take on it anyway
DHARMA's diminishing importance in events is kind of sad - it was much more intriguing when the island's various strange phenomena seemed to be the fall-out from a failed 1970s scientific project, rather than the mystical exploits of some magical ancient race.
Hope they still have SOME part to play further down the line...
gravesend46
13-05-2007, 22:10
Jacob looks like Kris Kristofferson
And Brian Kilcline.
LeftHandedGuitarist
13-05-2007, 22:16
I thought Jacob's voice sounded like Clancy Brown (who played Kelvin from the hatch).
Well that was alot ot take in:eek:
Guess Ill be in bed awake for a bit tonight:nuts:
Anyone got a link to next weeks trailer?
kingmonkey
13-05-2007, 22:34
DHARMA's diminishing importance in events is kind of sad - it was much more intriguing when the island's various strange phenomena seemed to be the fall-out from a failed 1970s scientific project, rather than the mystical exploits of some magical ancient race.
Hope they still have SOME part to play further down the line...
Surely DHARMA is still about in some form, or what is the explanation of how the Losties getting all the DHARMA branded grub?
.
They need another Ben flashback, maybe start of next season. There's still a ton of stuff they need to explain about Dharma. And what happened to Annie? That's going to be a huge part of Ben's story. And maybe they'll show us more about why Dharma built the stations and the button.
Next week is Charlie's flashback. It's been good while it lasted, but he's toast.
Anyone got a link to next weeks trailer?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4asWeBOl_Ds
anephric
14-05-2007, 01:07
I was willing to meet Lost halfway and chalk up the various visions and such to electromagnetic doodads in the brain but invisible angry psychic Jesus blokes who make rocking chairs, erm, rock of their own accord? The next thing you know James Brolin will be shooting up the place with a shotgun and some EVIL floating red eyes will hover DEMONICALLY in a window. In fact I bet it's JAMES BROLIN in the chair.
I remember when I used to care about Lost.
Thomas_h
14-05-2007, 09:03
I'd really like to know how come it seems every character has met a relative to another character before they crashed. Like it was destined to be or something.
And why does Dharma still keep dropping of food if the experiment has been stopped?
Jazzatola
14-05-2007, 09:05
And why does Dharma still keep dropping of food if the experiment has been stopped?Maybe Mikhail called it in.
wonderfibre
14-05-2007, 09:22
I'd really like to know how come it seems every character has met a relative to another character before they crashed. Like it was destined to be or something.
i think you just answered your own question ;)
Just when I thought the writers were starting to explain things a bit more this ep comes along. Still enjoying it greatly though.
Silver Jet
14-05-2007, 09:33
I’ve got a theory about the whispers and Jacob. I think maybe that if you spend a lot of time on the island or if you reach some kind of higher consciousness on island then you become an entity of pure energy. These entities still interact vocally with the others thus the whispers. Jacob is now able to manipulte the grey powder/gunpowder so the monster is a combination of Jacob and the powder, he does this to give himself a physical presence. I think this is the goal of the others, to achieve this higher form. Just a theory, I’ll probably be wide of the mark.
Interesting. The scientific explanation for the manipulation of the ash/gunpowder could be passed off as 'the real force' despite how far fetched it is.
Since the Black Rock was a ship owned by one of Hanso's ancestors, it surely wasn't coincidence that Hanso ends up sending Dharma to the very island the boat ended up on in order to take advantage of its particular "properties"...Having said that, I think with the whole four toed statue and totem pole-type things we're meant to think that there's been a civilisation there a lot longer than 150 years or so....Where did the ancestors bit come from...? I don't remember any reference?
Great episode...loving Lost again!
DuncanSWardle
14-05-2007, 10:29
Where did the ancestors bit come from...? I don't remember any reference?
Great episode...loving Lost again!
from the lost experiance
The Black Rock was owned and run by the British trading group the New World Sea Traders and was one of the three slaving ships the company ran. The slave trade had been outlawed in 1807, indicating the New World Sea Traders operated in the black market.
The New World Sea Traders was owned and operated by Magnus Hanso, a former ship's captain who became a business entrepreneur. While no direct ownership has been stated, it is known that the Black Rock sailed out of slip 23 in Portsmouth docks and Hanso's trading group managed slips 18 though 27. [1]
The Black Rock disappeared in 1881, on a return voyage from a gold mining operation in the South Indian Ocean. Perhaps more interesting than the fact the ship was lost were the circumstances preceding and following its disappearance. According to traders on Papua New Guinea, the ship sailed away from port in an Easterly direction, rather than West to Africa, where it would exchange gold from the mines in Indonesia and Papua New Guinea for more slaves. According to the ship's manifest that was discovered, the Black Rock initially sailed from (and was supposed to return to) slip 23 in Portsmouth, Britain -- but no shipping company claimed ownership. A crew of some 40 men, along with an uncounted number of slaves, was presumably lost at sea.[2] Magnus Hanso was known to still have a hands-on passion for the sea and insisted on captaining several voyages every year. It is likely that he was captaining the Black Rock himself when the ship disappeared, based on the note on the blast door map.
The sale of the company in 1882 to the East Ocean Trade Group saw the remainder of the New World Sea Traders slaving and military vessels converted to legitimate trading ships. In the 1950s, the Hanso Group purchased the East Ocean Trade Group, and renamed it to the Allied Copenhagen Marine Merchants. (Rachel Blake Copenhagen 02)
Are they following true to the Lost map? I've gotten 'Lost' and confused:
***MAYBE SPOILERS***
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/3629/lostmapjh8.th.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lostmapjh8.jpg)
Psycho :nuts:
from the lost experianceLost Experience? I don't follow the external content...
DuncanSWardle
14-05-2007, 13:29
Lost Experience? I don't follow the external content...
nor me - found it on lostpedia thing
I think the revealing of information like that through stuff like an internet game is pretty damn naff. See also resolving the Season 2 cliffhanger in 24 in a videogame.
Agreed. It's unneccesary and blatantly pimping the franchise for as much $$$$ as possible, which most of the time leads to bad things.
To have stuff as important as the V Equation talked about in the LE, but not the main show, that just seems lame to me, especially when the numbers seem to be significant.
24 should have started season 3 with Palmer on the floor, instead... rubbish...
Jazzatola
14-05-2007, 15:09
To have stuff as important as the V Equation talked about in the LE, but not the main show, that just seems lame to me, especially when the numbers seem to be significant.I see it the other way round: the fact that the Valenzetti equation was revealed in the LE means that it isn't important.
I'm pretty sure I recall the writers mentioning that many of the coincidences in the show were intended as just that. I think the numbers are just one of those many coincidences. It didn't seem like that in season 1 though and it does feel like an annoying loose end now.
I agree it certainly didn't feel like that, half of Season 1 and Season 2 is "Oooooh these spooky numbers whatever could their significance beeeeeeeee?".
Expect the explanation for Jacob to be revealed in a downloadable game for your mobile phone.
Agreed, but how can there be THAT many coincidences with the numbers though? The nutter at the psych ward, hurley's lottery win, hurley's car readings, the girl football team, the hatch code...
Jazzatola
14-05-2007, 15:32
I hope there's something to it all. It will be a major downer if after 6 years there are loads of unanswered questions and inconsistencies. The writers are doing pretty well so far but soon they're going to have to stop coming up with new mysteries and just start resolving all the existing ones!
I'm confident that they're not making up the overarching story as they go along but that's fast becoming a matter of faith rather than anything else.
Silver Jet
14-05-2007, 15:47
One thing that I'm a little worried about is that the Dharma story will get left behind in favour of the story of 'The Hostiles'. Dharma and it's hatches was the focus of season 2 and I'd like to see a resolution to the Dharma mythology before the hostiles story become the focus.
I was hoping that we would find out who The Others are, if not what they are actually up to, before season 3 finishes but I get the feeling that this isn't going to happen.
SIMON ADEBISI
14-05-2007, 15:50
:lol: I love how this show gets people so worked up. The last few eps have been good again though and Locke :eek:
68monkey
14-05-2007, 23:08
from the lost experiance
Well, then. Forget my earlier comments about the slaving ship possibly being Portuguese. I didn't realize I had to go outside of the show to find answers to what I thought were provocative questions. :oh-hum: When a show is well written, it shouldn't have to have these silly annotation extras.
NicolaUK
14-05-2007, 23:18
So is Jacob Locke's bad twin?
D J Fryer
15-05-2007, 09:01
Richie was spot on about reminding him of Pirates of the Carribean! - is it a franchise tie up a la Predator vs Alien ? ;)
I think it is safe to say that no matter how hard the writers try to tie up all the loose ends (if they even want to?) that with all the internet geekery/discussion they are NEVER going to be able to cover everything to everyone's satisfaction.
I just hope there is some exciting and believeable closure on at least two or three storyline elements this season.
What I do like about Lost is that it is one of the first programmes that makes me question the significance of absolutely everything that happens onscreen. It's even got my wife doing the same thing (that's a big deal in my house :D )
Lots of juicy, intriguing info. about the Season Finale over on AintItCool ... No major spoilers, just some teasers.
ben.bayliss
15-05-2007, 09:42
Another great episode - loved it.
The one thing that really really really annoyed me though was Mikael's throwaway explanation as to why he was still alive...
"Thank God the fence was not set to a lethal level"
Oh please. How naff can you get?!?! :mad: :brickwall
The one thing that really really really annoyed me though was Mikael's throwaway explanation as to why he was still alive...
"Thank God the fence was not set to a lethal level"
Oh please. How naff can you get?!?! :mad: :brickwall
He might have been lying again - if there was a more mysterious explanation, he probably wouldn't want to tell Locke about it...
I imagine he's lying. Whats the point of having a protective fence if it allows things to get through, despite messing you up for a bit.
Maybe it's primarily aimed at the smoke and/or Jacob (if they're one and the same).
Jacob in the hut freaked out when Locke turned the torch on as it was 'technology' and the smoke stopped dead at the fence when it was turned on.
Wouldn't explain how it kept the hostiles out of the Dharma camp though?
emeyedeejay
15-05-2007, 10:38
Maybe it's primarily aimed at the smoke and/or Jacob (if they're one and the same).
Jacob in the hut freaked out when Locke turned the torch on as it was 'technology' and the smoke stopped dead at the fence when it was turned on.
Wouldn't explain how it kept the hostiles out of the Dharma camp though?
The Dharma camp is inside the fence isn't it?
Highlander
15-05-2007, 10:43
Wouldn't explain how it kept the hostiles out of the Dharma camp though?
It obviously didn't keep the hostiles out, hence 'the purge'.
(Unless Ben deliberately turned it off to let them in?)
KennyVader
15-05-2007, 10:45
I imagine he's lying. Whats the point of having a protective fence if it allows things to get through, despite messing you up for a bit.
When they showed BabyBen turning the fence off in this episode, it did seem to have some sort of variable level control rather than a simple on-off button. So the props do match the "non-lethal level" storyline at least. I can't remember whether it had a variable knob or a switch when Juliette turned it on, we may have only seen her punch the code in to open the switch box up, not the actual switch.
DrVenkman
15-05-2007, 10:45
Well, then. Forget my earlier comments about the slaving ship possibly being Portuguese. I didn't realize I had to go outside of the show to find answers to what I thought were provocative questions. When a show is well written, it shouldn't have to have these silly annotation extras.
I was told that things like this would still be explained in the show, which is why I never participated in 'The Lost Experience' and I've still never really read any of the spoilers about it.
dannywonderful
15-05-2007, 10:45
It obviously didn't keep the hostiles out, hence 'the purge'.
(Unless Ben deliberately turned it off to let them in?)
I assumed he did, or at least gave them the code to do so themselves.
When they showed BabyBen turning the fence off in this episode, it did seem to have some sort of variable level control rather than a simple on-off button. So the props do match the "non-lethal level" storyline at least. I can't remember whether it had a variable knob or a switch when Juliette turned it on, we may have only seen her punch the code in to open the switch box up, not the actual switch.
Ah yes, I forgot about that. Still it's a bit odd to have a non-lethal setting. Either they want to be protected from who/whatever is out there, or they don't. I would be interested to know where young Ben got the code from. It's not something I imagine would be pinned to a notice board or something. Must have got it from his dad I guess.
wong fei hong
15-05-2007, 11:12
It was my understanding that The Lost Experience game was 'alternate reality' to the continuity of the show, and just an aside for fans?
Personally, I'm not taking anything as canon unless it's on the show - thus the numbers, the origins of the Black Rock and much of what people seem to know about Alvar Hanso remains a mystery to me. If it were important or dramatic enough, it would be in the show, which is why I'm leen on contemplating the clues the makers seem to scatter around (books, records, character names etc).
Great episode this week - I loved the segment at Jacob's cabin which started off David Lynch and ended up Sam Raimi: such creepy fun!
DrVenkman
15-05-2007, 11:17
Great episode this week - I loved the segment at Jacob's cabin which started off David Lynch and ended up Sam Raimi: such creepy fun!
Funnily enough, when things were going crazy I in the Cabin, the first thing I thought of was 'Evil Dead'. I was half expecting to see a laughing Deer head on the wall.
anephric
15-05-2007, 11:21
Or James Brolin trying to find some money he dropped on the couch.
DrVenkman
15-05-2007, 11:37
Or James Brolin trying to find some money he dropped on the couch.
I genuinely hope it will be James Brolin now, damn you anephric for getting me all excited at the prospect.
Maybe I wadn't watching properly but I didn't get a couple of bits.
We saw Ben go to Island with his father as a boy. Then years later he killed him based on the neglect etc...
So then Ben wanders back to Dharma camp and people are dead. Aren't these people part of the Dharma. Where are they from and why didn't they Kill Ben? Are these the Others, I recognised one of them.
GAmbrose
15-05-2007, 12:18
I think the people that were alive were what Dharma called 'Hostiles'.
Gary A
Jazzatola
15-05-2007, 12:31
Personally, I'm not taking anything as canon unless it's on the show - thus the numbers, the origins of the Black Rock and much of what people seem to know about Alvar Hanso remains a mystery to me.Has Hanso ever been mentioned in the show itself?
Ben 'got in' with the Hostiles at a young age, starting with his meeting with 'Richard' in the forest.
The simultaneous nerve-gassing of both his father, and the rest of Dharma living at the barracks, was the execution of a long-term plan between Ben and the Hostiles (presumably also necessitating his disabling of the sonic barrier).
As to why the Hostiles would be all that bothered by the presence of a few scientists and their families, that has yet to be explored - presumbly it has something to do with Jacob's luddite tendencies (and possibly because Dharma were actually achieving something with their experiments).
This will probably all be revealed in season 5 or something... ;)
Has Hanso ever been mentioned in the show itself?
Orientation film? :shrug:
Not really spoilers as such just tells us what answers we wont get in this season, not actually what the answers are... :thumbs:
What ABC is not telling us:
* We do not get a lot more information this season about Richard Alpert and the island’s other natives.
* We do not get a lot more information this season on the Dharma Initiative or the Hanso Foundation.
* We do not learn a lot more this season about Jacob.
* We don’t learn more about the four-toed statue.
* Christian Shepherd is not discovered alive.
* Libby does not appear.
* We will learn something huge about Kate.
* We get a major clue related to the “other” Oceanic 815 that boasted no survivors.
* We’ll be meeting new characters, not all of them in flashbacks.
* Rousseau’s original Frenchy broadcast from the pilot plays a role this week.
* There is much death in the finale.
* Yet another original cast member goes the way of Boone and Shannon.
* A long-absent regular returns. And that regular is not listed among ABC’s cast list.
* We will see Terry O’Quinn at least one more time before the season ends.
* We see a new side of Hurley.
* Desmond does not sacrifice himself to save Charlie.
* There’s a big reveal involving Naomi and Penelope.
* The huge huge huge HUGE season-ending reveal resides in Jack’s very dark flashbacks, so watch them very carefully.
* Between now and 2008, fans may scratch holes in their heads wondering how this show is going to continue next season.
Coolhand
15-05-2007, 12:39
Oh well only another 48 episodes to go and all will be made clear...
Silver Jet
15-05-2007, 12:40
Has Hanso ever been mentioned in the show itself?Yes. He is mentioned and shown in a photo in one of the orientation films.
MaxNutter
15-05-2007, 13:37
Not really spoilers as such just tells us what answers we wont get in this season, not actually what the answers are... :thumbs:
my take:
What ABC is not telling us:
* We will learn something huge about Kate.
She's pregnant?
* Yet another original cast member goes the way of Boone and Shannon.
Charlie?
* A long-absent regular returns. And that regular is not listed among ABC’s cast list.
Vincent?
Highlander
15-05-2007, 13:41
Good call on the last one (and the other's are probably right too).
I was trying to think who that could be, and completely forgot about him.
wong fei hong
15-05-2007, 13:52
Vincent's been in this series a few times - he led Hurley to Roger "Work Man" Linus' van. And carried his hand around for a bit. Not really long absent.
Michael and/or Walt innit!
MaxNutter
15-05-2007, 14:09
Michael and/or Walt innit!
both in the cast list ... i thought Bernard, as he's not been in for ages, but he's there too ...
maybe someone from a flashback ...
Aha! J'ai did not know that! *blush*
but on the abc site only
Jin
Charlie
Claire
Kate
Hurley
Sawyer
Jack
Sayid
Locke
Sun
Ben
Juliet
Desmond
are listed. :shrug:
So I still say Michael, Walt and a big wave will see us into 2008!
or a wedding massacre, if the island is in fact Moldavia!
emeyedeejay
15-05-2007, 14:27
Who on earth is he? :thinking:
Who on earth is he? :thinking:
Which one?
If you mean Vincent, he's the dog :)
emeyedeejay
15-05-2007, 14:38
:doh: Of course :lol:
Highlander
15-05-2007, 14:42
Vincent's been in this series a few times - he led Hurley to Roger "Work Man" Linus' van. And carried his hand around for a bit. Not really long absent.
Oh yeah, I remember.
He was also in the Paolo and Nikki epeisode.
AndyWilson
15-05-2007, 14:46
Whatever happened to the rumoured Vincent flashback episode?
cockbongo
15-05-2007, 15:13
The problem with people posting huge spoilers for the finale is that when you get daily DVD Forum Thread Updates emailed to you, the spoilers appear in plain text. I've been caught out with this a couple of times - just to warn those who weren't aware!
I'll be unsubbing from this thread but checking it manually until after the finale...
wong fei hong
15-05-2007, 15:23
Whatever happened to the rumoured Vincent flashback episode?
It would probably require Michael/Walt participation, and so is likely a no-go.
However, I think a wordless episode following Vincent around would probably be brilliant - I reckon he's got access to areas that our survivors haven't yet found. And he's not always on the beach is he? It would be great to find that someone outside the camp had been feeding him...
GAmbrose
15-05-2007, 15:57
It would be horrible, like Bouncers dream in Neighbours.
Yes a dog would have access to certain places, and a unique point of view in terms of camera angles, but it's not like he could follow a conversation.
Gary A
Careful folks, apparantly there's even bigger spoilers out that reveals EVERYTHING about the next 2 episodes. Apparantly, what happens is, mega. I'm staying well clear. Think the offending site was spoilerslost.blogspot. Stay clear!
Professor Abronsius
15-05-2007, 23:09
The Cabin bit reminded me of Evil Dead as well.
Also, Richard looks like a young Rod Serling. :D
Careful folks, apparantly there's even bigger spoilers out that reveals EVERYTHING about the next 2 episodes. Apparantly, what happens is, mega. I'm staying well clear. Think the offending site was spoilerslost.blogspot. Stay clear!
I was weak and caved it.
OMG you are not kidding, MASSIVE twists coming in the two-part finale!
Also, Richard looks like a young Rod Serling. :DNow that is very true! :lol: I was thinking he reminded me of someone and that's who!!!
Mr Flibble
16-05-2007, 09:36
Read them all, Christ alive, it already smacks of 'are you making this up as you go along?' with the final big 'twist'
Terribly_Mauled
16-05-2007, 09:46
Actually, I think its incredibly ballsy to end like that. I could compare it to the season finale of another series [its the same twist, pretty much] but then it gives it away...
Okay just ******* stop RIGHT NOW!!!!! :mad:
sleepy67
16-05-2007, 10:19
Okay just ******* stop RIGHT NOW!!!!! :mad:What he said.
Ditto! I can only resist temptation so long!!
Mr Flibble
16-05-2007, 11:16
I STILL can't beleive they'll reveal that Jacob is really hurley from the future! He's certainly lost a lot of weight on the island after all that time eh?
Still, the similar hair was the giveaway I suppose......................
;)
Terribly_Mauled
16-05-2007, 11:22
Haha, brilliant.
Mr Flibble
16-05-2007, 11:32
Help me..........dude ' :eek: '
wallofbeans
16-05-2007, 11:50
can someone get my up to speed as ive missed the last few episodes... what episode are we on now?
wong fei hong
16-05-2007, 12:35
can someone get my up to speed as ive missed the last few episodes... what episode are we on now?
There's a clue in the thread title...
www.lostpedia.com is a great resource for finding out about episodes, characters and theories.
The bloke behind the curtain was episode 20. Today is 'Greatest Hits', and next week is a 2 hour Jack job. 22 eps this season.
Lostpedia is your friend.
Careful folks, apparantly there's even bigger spoilers out that reveals EVERYTHING about the next 2 episodes. Apparantly, what happens is, mega. I'm staying well clear. Think the offending site was spoilerslost.blogspot. Stay clear!
Genius post. Make it look like you're warning everyone while knowing full well that it would prompt some to look, then come back here and give us their views without spoiling it for us. :D
Methinks you are an evil genius.
:suspect:
Tonight's ep should be fun. Wonder how Charlie will die this time? Arrow through the neck was pretty cool.
wallofbeans
16-05-2007, 13:26
There's a clue in the thread title...
www.lostpedia.com is a great resource for finding out about episodes, characters and theories.
but the thread was started on the 10th and i dont know if 'the man behind the curtain' was the one on last sunday (after the 10th) or the sunday before (before the 10th)... and i dont know if sky showed an episode last week or not... or even if you are talking about episodes broadcast in the states but not here yet... so its a bit more confusing and im now confused even more!
so, next sundays (20th may) episode will be.... 21!
this thread confused me by talking about ep20 before it was broadcast!
wong fei hong
16-05-2007, 13:41
Ah, the thread starts when the show is broadcast in the States/Canada.
and next week is a 2 hour Jack job. 22 eps this season.
So the last two are being shown in the US as a double? Any idea if Sky are going to follow suit?
Greatest Hits (#21) is tonight, then next week the finale. I'm sure Sky will show it as the US/CA do, ie. delayed by 4 days. Through the looking glass is one episode (#22), but it'll be two hours long.
NicolaUK
16-05-2007, 15:02
:suspect:
Tonight's ep should be fun. Wonder how Charlie will die this time? Arrow through the neck was pretty cool.
Ummm...thanks...
It's just a guess, chill! Remember the woman Desmond met in his flashback? She let the guy with the red shoes die. She said the universe always corrects itself. Tonight is Charlie's flashback, so just a guess he's gonna cop it. Desmond's been telling him so for most of the season.
Apologies though if I've spoilered anything!
MaxNutter
16-05-2007, 15:20
Ummm...thanks...
Charlie has 'died' at least 3 times so far this season ... there have been signs ... anyway, will he 'die' or really die?
Terribly_Mauled
16-05-2007, 15:35
Points of view eh?
I know, I read those mega spoilers...
NicolaUK
16-05-2007, 15:43
Charlie has 'died' at least 3 times so far this season ... there have been signs ... anyway, will he 'die' or really die?
I don't think it's too much to ask for people to use spoiler tags if making reference to things that are about to happen.
I'll quite happily read a thread for episodes that have aired after I've seen them but I like to watch the show without knowing what's going to happen, for the same reason I never watch trailers.
wong fei hong
16-05-2007, 15:47
But no-one knows for certain whether Charlie will die or not, only that this episode is almost certain, thematically, to be dealing with the 'curse' hanging over him. It's only speculation.
I don't think it's too much to ask for people to use spoiler tags if making reference to things that are about to happen.
I'll quite happily read a thread for episodes that have aired after I've seen them but I like to watch the show without knowing what's going to happen, for the same reason I never watch trailers.
He's not saying charlie dies, he's saying will he won't he?
Guys, if you want to discuss future episodes then start up a spoiler-heavy thread and leave speculation and discussion for upcoming episodes out of these episode specific threads.
NicolaUK
16-05-2007, 16:02
Cheers Colin :)
I'd hate for someone to get carried away and post the 'big spoiler' as I'm sure someone is probably dying to do and I can assure you if they did I'd track them down :nuts:
Mr Flibble
16-05-2007, 16:09
oh REALLY :n0rty:
In that case - we find out they ARE all in purgatory!!
Barracuda
16-05-2007, 23:52
Have to say, at first glance, it does look like Locke, in a wig, wearing a 19th century outfit :nuts:
Here's a closeup of Jacob - http://bp3.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/RkKWtpsh6XI/AAAAAAAAFRE/CHJIyPT10d4/s1600-h/Image13.jpg The forehead shape and the eyes are damn near identical to Locke IMO.
What a shocker when Ben shot Locke. Couldn't quite believe it had happened. And how about eye-liner boy not aging? Something tells me he's been knocking about for over a hundred years :nuts:
I don't think thats a wig, sorry if this has been said not had chance to read all thread, but I reckon its Locke with a tatty hood on, rather than a wig.
:)
Out for Justice
11-01-2008, 11:37
Yeah, he played Uncle Rico in Napoleon Dynamite :D.
Thank you. This was bugging the hell out of me came to the thread just to find this out.
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