Not quite grasped the ebay feedback thing

[molerat]

eBay (http://www.thedvdforums.com/jump2.php?url=http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-1751-2978-71/1?AID=5463217&PID=582776&mpre=http%3A//feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll%3FViewFeedbackMemberLeft%26memberid%3D25180202%26items%3D-1%26item%3D-1%26de%3Doff)

Bit of a bellend me thinks :doh: Hope he never buys from me ...... another candidate for the blocked bidders list :brickwall

[Barny79]

What a tool

[Alan b]

Please affiliate these links where applicable.

[mikegray]

In fairness, it's slightly counter-intuitive. You give good feedback for anything that's not appalling service, neutral for some problems, and then negative if it's a complete nightmare, whereas this guy's reading neutral as "everything was fine" and positive for "exceptional service".

[Fat Bloke]

The feedback system on Ebay is so annoying really. I've bought far more than I've sold, like 98% against 2%. My ebay rating is 90 which is 100% positive.

But there are soooo many sellers who wont leave feedback until myself as a buyer leave feedback for them first. Why? If I buy something, then pay immediately, what else is there I've got to do as a buyer. So really the feedback should be left at that point, not a week later after waiting for the item to be delivered and feedback left by the buyer.

Just my little rant.

[rustybin]

As a seller, I'll never leave feedback until I've received it first. You leave yourself completely open to feedback blackmail - the system is almost completely in the buyers favour (with regards PayPal), feedback is the only real protection a seller has.

If someone buys and isn't happy with the item, for whatever reason, if you've already left them feedback, they've got you over a barrel.

[Fat Bloke]

But that's the point I'm making, if there was something wrong with the goods sold, what has the buyer done wrong?

[ShakeyJake]

If you look at the all the crap he's bought his Peugeot 406 has more flashing, coloured, lights than Blackpool

[Dean[SAS]]

The feedback system on Ebay is so annoying really. I've bought far more than I've sold, like 98% against 2%. My ebay rating is 90 which is 100% positive.

But there are soooo many sellers who wont leave feedback until myself as a buyer leave feedback for them first. Why? If I buy something, then pay immediately, what else is there I've got to do as a buyer. So really the feedback should be left at that point, not a week later after waiting for the item to be delivered and feedback left by the buyer.

Just my little rant.

Indeed, he's got a few negs just cos he left the sellers negs for "poor service", even though i'm sure he paid straight away

[Arthur Fowler]

But that's the point I'm making, if there was something wrong with the goods sold, what has the buyer done wrong?

What if the buyer just can't read though? :shrug:

We've gone round this feedback circle on loads of earlier threads, shall we just keep this one on topic and laugh at the original post? :lol:

[rustybin]

You're right - unscrupulous sellers and unscrupulous buyers have taken all the fun out of ebay. In the past I've had people buy something from me on a Saturday night, I've posted the item out on the Monday morning, 2nd class, they've received it on the Thursday / Friday (Royal Mail....obviously) and they've left me negative or neutral for slow delivery.

Also, I charge say £1.99 for posting a single DVD or £2.25 for a double - I'll have a buyer leave neutral or negative moaning about excessive postage when they see the 55p / 75p stamp! They don't account for the time and care it takes to package up the item, write the address, walk / drive to the post office, stand in line etc. Or the fact that my terms are clearly stated! Amazon charge £2.30 for the same service.

So really, the threat of negative feedback is the only thing we sellers have in our favour

[asadmm]

ebay should have a greater range of feedback scores. It does seem a bit daft that a seller that may have gone out of the way to provide a better service merits the same score as another who was maybe just adequate because nothing went wrong with either transaction. In fact what is the neutral rating for ?

Anyway why did he or anyone else buy this (http://www.thedvdforums.com/jump2.php?url=http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-1751-2978-71/1?AID=5463217&PID=582776&mpre=http%3A//cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D320059940221)all 12" by 12" ?

I guess at least he didnt complain about delivery for this ;)

[rustybin]

ebay should have a greater range of feedback scores. It does seem a bit daft that a seller that may have gone out of the way to provide a better service merits the same score as another who was maybe just adequate because nothing went wrong with either transaction. In fact what is the neutral rating for ?

Anyway why did he or anyone else buy this (http://www.thedvdforums.com/jump2.php?url=http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-1751-2978-71/1?AID=5463217&PID=582776&mpre=http%3A//cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D320059940221)all 12" by 12" ?

I guess at least he didnt complain about delivery for this ;)

Hey, don't knock this - I've been buying up land on the Glenmore Estate for years, hoping to get enough to build my own little fort, then declare independence from the UK. Then you won't be mocking.....

[neilalford]

But that's the point I'm making, if there was something wrong with the goods sold, what has the buyer done wrong?

Until the buyer has confirmed delivery of the goods via leaving good feedback they could still claim never to have received them or do a PayPal chargeback etc. Admittedly they could still do that after leaving feedback but at least it offers the seller a bit of proof.

If I posted feedback the moment I sent goods I'd have left postive feedback for a credit card fraudster who ripped over £900 off of people over the course of a few days.

[puddleduck]

But there are soooo many sellers who wont leave feedback until myself as a buyer leave feedback for them first. Why? If I buy something, then pay immediately, what else is there I've got to do as a buyer.

That really annoys me too.

[neilalford]

That really annoys me too.

See my previous post, from the sellers point of view, until the buyer has confirmed the delivery there are plenty of opportunities to be ripped off, from a buyers point of view once they have the item and have confirmed it's what they ordered, working etc. there's (almost) nothing that can go wrong.

I always wait for the buyer to leave feedback first, it's the only sensible way of doing it.

[Burned_Alive]

As a seller i wont leave feedback until the buyer leaves feedback and confirms everything is ok with the product and delivery. As far as im concerned the buyers part is not over immediately after payment, but when they have confirmed the product has arrived and is as advertised.

If i leave feedback directly after payment, the buyer can turn around and claim the product is not as advertised (it always will be from me) or that i havent shipped or whatever. We're just protecting ourselves.

[Fat Bloke]

No offence though Neil and Burned Alive, you are talking about an unscrupilous buyer there and not everyone. But I do understand the point you make.

[Burned_Alive]

No offence though Neil and Burned Alive, you are talking about an unscrupilous buyer there and not everyone. But I do understand the point you make.

Unfortunately you never know whos going to be an unscrupulous buyer, so I procede with caution in all cases.

[Barny79]

Annoying thing is not being able to leave feedback for someone who has become unregistered and has ripped you off, should still be able to leave feedback IMO

[Alamar]

Going back to the original post, I think the most amusing thing is one of the comments left by a seller for the guy: ".·:*¨¨*:·.5.·:*¨¨*:·.STAR.·:*¨¨*:·.EBAYER.·:*¨¨*:·.Thanks from 1A Auto Style·:*¨".

Rating: Neutral. :D

[carlito8]

See my previous post, from the sellers point of view, until the buyer has confirmed the delivery there are plenty of opportunities to be ripped off, from a buyers point of view once they have the item and have confirmed it's what they ordered, working etc. there's (almost) nothing that can go wrong.

I always wait for the buyer to leave feedback first, it's the only sensible way of doing it.

Totally agree with Neilalford here, on any item of value I always return feedback once the buyer has confirmed the item has arrived safely via feedback. Cheap stuff like dvd's I usually just leave as soon as people pay and take the risk I'll get a negative for slow delivery or something else out of my control.....

I understand the point about the buyers part being complete as soon as they pay but I prefer to evaluate them over the whole transaction from start to finish :)

[cjanderson]

No offence though Neil and Burned Alive, you are talking about an unscrupilous buyer there and not everyone. But I do understand the point you make.

but as a buyer you have other obligations

ie to be reasonable abouut time it takes to deliver. Not bombard the seller with emails demanding why its not there when it was only sent the day before. if there are any problems to send a polite email to the seller asking them to resolve, rather than threats etc.

the feedback is a comment on the entire transaction, which only ends when the buyer is happy with their goods. I only leave feedback when the buyer has as thats when they are saying NO ISSUES, i have got it.

[robzinski]

QUOTE REMOVED

Sorry, thought the seller was someone i'd been dealing with.

I won 2 'buy it now' auctions on the 23rd of November with these clowns (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/AUTOSTYLE-DIRECT). 1 for a set of valve caps, and one for a set of car mats. Now the auction states 10 working days delivery, which I accepted. Come the 15th December i've still not received anything, so e-mailed them chasing it up.

Got a reply on the 18th saying that the mats had been out of stock(Don't get me started on how an item is out of stock on an auction), but were now back in stock and would be posted later that day. Christmas came and went with no delivery, and its now going to be over a week into the new year and i'll still not have them. I've had no response to the last 2 e-mails i've sent.

Thing is, if the stuff eventually doesn't arrive I can't neg feedback them, as they seem to be the most petty sellers in the world. Every single time someone negs them, most of the time entirely justified, they neg back with some sarcy comment.

I've got 100% feedback on both buying and selling, and am not prepared to risk losing that due to them not being able to accept the fact they are really bad sellers.

[Fat Bloke]

That's another problem with the idea of ebay's feedback. People have described possible dodgy buyers, but what about sellers? As robzinski says above, what if someone buys an item, then has lots of hassle with the item and eventually gives the seller negative feedback. The seller in most cases will then automatically give the buyer negative feedback as well. But for what reason, none other than spite.

[andybhoy]

But that's the point I'm making, if there was something wrong with the goods sold, what has the buyer done wrong?

Because the number of numpties on ebay is so high, you get them leaving negs for no valid reason.

When I sold on ebay (stopped because too many buyers with no common sense), I left feedback only when they'd either left feedback for me, or if they emailed me to thank me for the goods.

The ebay system is skewed in favour of who leaves feedback last.

[andybhoy]

That's another problem with the idea of ebay's feedback. People have described possible dodgy buyers, but what about sellers? As robzinski says above, what if someone buys an item, then has lots of hassle with the item and eventually gives the seller negative feedback. The seller in most cases will then automatically give the buyer negative feedback as well. But for what reason, none other than spite.


And if a seller negs a dodgy buyer, they also leave neg in return (happened to me a couple of times with non-payers).

[Fat Bloke]

I think we all just agree it's flawed.

:)

[abarthman]

Going back to the original post, I think the most amusing thing is one of the comments left by a seller for the guy: ".·:*¨¨*:·.5.·:*¨¨*:·.STAR.·:*¨¨*:·.EBAYER.·:*¨¨*:·.Thanks from 1A Auto Style·:*¨".

Rating: Neutral. :DI noticed that one, too. :lol:

Nice payback! :thumbs:

I'm gonna resist the temptation to join in the "Who should leave feedback first" debate. Those threads always get far too heated! :lol:

[rustybin]

One of my funniest experiences was selling a '2nd Hand Pair of Jeans, about 18 months old, worn 5-6 times - good condition.'

The moronic buyer (with 2-3 feedback at the time) left me negative on receipt of jeans (no email to say he was unhappy) stating the goods looked 'used'!!!!

Needless to say, I left him negative, just out of spite - he took my feedback down to 99.3%, I his to 66.6%.

It's people like that which stop sellers leaving feedback first - and numerous, numerous other examples over the years.

[abarthman]

I've got 100% feedback on both buying and selling, and am not prepared to risk losing that due to them not being able to accept the fact they are really bad sellers.Your feedback is only really worth a jot when you are a seller (a seller with 99-100% positive feedback is more likely to sell his stuff at a higher price than a seller with less than 95% positive feedback), so just open another eBay account and have one for buying and one for selling.

That way, if you receive a retaliatory negative feedback from a petty seller, it won't affect your feedback score as a seller.

[puddleduck]

See my previous post, from the sellers point of view, until the buyer has confirmed the delivery there are plenty of opportunities to be ripped off, from a buyers point of view once they have the item and have confirmed it's what they ordered, working etc. there's (almost) nothing that can go wrong.

I always wait for the buyer to leave feedback first, it's the only sensible way of doing it.

Why as a buyer should I a) confirms its what I ordered?

Its the seller's responsibity to ensure the right goods go out as ordered.

Why as a buyer should I b) confirms its working?

Again, this is the sellers responsibility to ensure it working. Why do I not get feedback from you as soon as I've paid. Both the issues you note are seller issues, not buyer issues IMHO.

[cjanderson]

say the buyer says its a mistake (doesn't read the listing and gets region 1 over region 2) and seller says okay, refund if you post back at your cost.

but buyer refuses and negs the seller

that would be unfair, as its the buyers fault for not reading the description.

i can't see why you can't tell its about the whole transaction. things happen when second hand items are sent through the post, you need reasonable buyers and reasonable sellers to work out any issues. And then you can both give positive feedback as the situation (whatever it was ) was resolved amicably.

after sale service is important as well.

anyway, whats your ebay username so we can all block you from bidding on our auctions :D

[andybhoy]

Again, this is the sellers responsibility to ensure it working. Why do I not get feedback from you as soon as I've paid. Both the issues you note are seller issues, not buyer issues IMHO.

99% of the problems on ebay are caused by buyers, so it's no wonder sellers don't give you your positive right away. You could be one of the numpties who doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

Plus many sellers sell multiple items, across multiple days and don't leave feedback for everything instantly. Many do a whole load together, some of which might be weeks old. I do the same when I'm buying - once a month I leave feedback.

Why do people think they have an automatic right to feedback anyway? It's not a rule on ebay that you have to, so if the seller doesn't do it the instant yuou pay, well that's life. I have found that many people don't bother leaving feedback (I always leave it - and have given many more than received).

[puddleduck]

I have found that many people don't bother leaving feedback (I always leave it - and have given many more than received).

So do I.

I have a real moral objection to auctions that state stuff like "We operate a mutual feedback policy and leave feedback once the buyer has left feedback for us"

Thats just feedback bartering and corrupts the whole process IMHO.

[rbullivant]

As a seller I always left feedback when I had recieved the payment, if they thought I was a bad seller than fair enough. I think retalitory feedback is really immature.

R

[campdave]

I agree with AndySymbian, had a poor experience with a seller this week who I left a neutral for, who gave me a neutral in revenge. I left neutral feedback as an item I ordered took over two weeks to arrive (ordered before Christmas, not posted until a week after I ordered), and failed to answer two messages I sent asking if my item had been sent, which where send over a week after the item had been posted?

As I paid instantly, I feel really quite annoyed, and was called a 'baby' by the seller for complaining about their tactics.

So now another item I've ordered was sent to my billing address rather than the delivery address I asked it to be sent to, no response when I emailed them about it, had to take time off work for the redelivery. It warrants negative feedback in my opinion, but of course now as they haven't left me feedback I'm open to revenge feedback.

I've sold 400-500 items on ebay, and always leave feedback once I recieve feedback. I know there are numpties/chancers out there, but I think sellers witholding feedback is unfair on the majority of buyers who play by the rules, and I won't leave feedback for sellers who operate that practice on principle.

[andybhoy]

I have found that many people don't bother leaving feedback (I always leave it - and have given many more than received).

So do I.

I have a real moral objection to auctions that state stuff like "We operate a mutual feedback policy and leave feedback once the buyer has left feedback for us"

Thats just feedback bartering and corrupts the whole process IMHO.

That and people who email and ask you to leave feedback. Mind you, that happens on the dvdforums too, and I've stopped obliging because not one of them (about 5 or 6) left feedback in return.

Unfortunately, the feedback system just doesn't work anymore.

[ben.bayliss]

I always thought that feedback should be kept hidden in escrow until both parties have left it. That way there can be no retaliation - both parties are encouraged to leave honest comments.

B

[Burned_Alive]

Why as a buyer should I a) confirms its what I ordered?

Its the seller's responsibity to ensure the right goods go out as ordered.

Why as a buyer should I b) confirms its working?

Again, this is the sellers responsibility to ensure it working. Why do I not get feedback from you as soon as I've paid. Both the issues you note are seller issues, not buyer issues IMHO.

Because, as a good seller i will always send my item out exactly as described. If the buyer suddenly (for whatever reason) decides its not as described and ive already left feedback, hes got me over a barrel. I just protect myself against dodgy buyers.

[rbullivant]

I always thought that feedback should be kept hidden in escrow until both parties have left it. That way there can be no retaliation - both parties are encouraged to leave honest comments.

B

That is actually a superb idea, so if one doesn't leave feedback for the other then they cannot get their feedback!

R

[Burned_Alive]

Couldnt agree more

[neilalford]

Why as a buyer should I a) confirms its what I ordered?

Its the seller's responsibity to ensure the right goods go out as ordered.

Why as a buyer should I b) confirms its working?

Again, this is the sellers responsibility to ensure it working. Why do I not get feedback from you as soon as I've paid. Both the issues you note are seller issues, not buyer issues IMHO.

Perhaps I should say "Confirms it's what they thought they'd ordered", the region 1\2 DVD thing mentioned is a good example, so many stories about buyers complaining because the clearly stated in the auction Region 1 DVD they bought wont play on their Region 2 player.

But the main reason for waiting to leave feedback is to try and help a little against fraudulent buyers, like I said, I was recently ripped off for quite a lot of money by a buyer, if I'd have posted feedback when I received "payment" I'd have given them positive feedback, which obviously isn't right. Admittedly you'd really need to wait six months or so to confirm you haven't been ripped off, but that's not really practical, so I think leaving feedback on confirmation of receipt of goods seems to strike the right balance.

[puddleduck]

I only take cheques or bank transfer for items on Ebayer - maybe I've been really lucky but having 100% feedback both as a buyer and a seller its always worked for me giving feedback on payment clearance.

I have an item on Ebay right now as a seller and I got a 0 feedback bidder mailing me, as he'd been blocked before. My response? Go right ahead, everyone has to start somewhere. If he wins and payment clears then he'll get Positive feedback. But the idea of waiting for him to leave feedback first just smells of a foul.

To be honest, if someone is going to rip you off, I just don't see that a neg is going to make much difference. Most people, thankfully are honest :)

[robzinski]

Right, just tried to persue a refund for my non-received items through Paypal, to be told that I can't raise a dispute as its been longer than 45 days since payment was made. :mad:

No bearing in mind the delays in post over Christmas, and all the bank holidays and weekends, it doesn't leave that much scope for being patient with anyone.

So, I guess thats the last time I try and show some patience with a seller.