View Full Version : England v Macedonia (Spoilers)
To red face man will announce his squad today, after claiming he would only pick on form it will be interesting to see him turn into a hypocrite in-front of out eyes!
SWP,Jenas,Downing,Pennant,Carrick & Richardson shouldn't be anywhere near the squad, some have only played 1 game this season and the rest have been rubbish.
For example Gareth Barry and Liam Ridgewell have been in the top 10 players so far this season, Ridgewell being the best defender in the prem on stats along.
Now i don't think Ridgewell should be in the squad but Barry should! This is an example because i know how these have played not just cause i am a Villa fan.
Are you telling me that Richardson should be picked in front of Barry when he has hardly played this season and been rubbish when he has?!
McClaren said form, which means Barry should be in the squad and Glen Johnson/Sol Campbell other examples.
When he doesn't pick Barry it will officially show old red face as a joke!
He only watches matches in London and North West. :nono:
We shall see.
1 andy johnson Everton 151
2 frank lampard Chelsea 132
3 didier drogba Chelsea 126
4 gareth barry Aston Villa 120
5 tim cahill Everton 120
6 liam ridgewell Aston Villa 115
7 bobby zamora West Ham United 114
8 kanu Portsmouth 110
9 kevin doyle Reading 109
10 gabriel agbonlahor Aston Villa 107
11 sean davis Portsmouth 106
12 olof mellberg Aston Villa 105
13 david james Portsmouth 103
14 joey barton Manchester City 103
15 ryan giggs Manchester United 102
16 louis saha Manchester United 99
17 matthew taylor Portsmouth 97
18 ricardo carvalho Chelsea 96
19 seol ki-hyeon Reading 95
20 scott parker Newcastle United 94
Liam Ridgewell as the statistically best defender shows how **** stats are :lol:
Villa are unbeaten and only conceded 3 goals :shrug:
dean richardson
29-09-2006, 11:52
using these stats you wouldnt play rooney and give zamorra a game. i dont think so!
You do know that 78% of stats are worthless ;)
Will be interesting to see who he plays upfront. The form book suggests Crouch and Johnson, but I expect Rooney will be back in there. Wonder if Johnson has surpassed Defoe in the pecking order though...
You do know that 78% of stats are worthless ;)
Aye, Frank Lampard the best midfielder this season :lol:
using these stats you wouldnt play rooney and give zamorra a game. i dont think so!
You do know that 78% of stats are worthless ;)
Yeah but there are a guide to this seasons form, like old red face said.
When he picks Richardson over Barry for example it will show him up!
cpheonix
29-09-2006, 12:15
I'd like to see pompey's Matt Taylor, Scott Parker and Gareth Barry in the squad. Jenas, Richardson and even Carrick doesnt deserve to be there. And like some others, I think Lamps is far over-rated.
Pisces Iscariot
29-09-2006, 12:17
When he picks Richardson over Barry for example it will show him up!
That's a bad example really. Barry has been playing as a left back and Richardson as a left winger. I know they can both play the other position but they haven't been so if you're basing it on form then you have to consider position as Barry has no form as a left midfielder this season. You should have said that when he picks Cole and/or Bridge over Barry that it will show him up but you specifically chose Richardson to fit your agenda as most people wouldn't see a problem with Bridge and Cole being picked over Barry despite form so far this season or the stats. Form has to be taken into account but it shouldn't be the only factor.
Personally I don't think Richardson should even be in the United squad after his last couple of appearances but that's another matter.
Oh yeah Pisces, i was just using as an example abit a bad one.
There continues to be certain players that are picked and i just don't get it.
Carrick/Jenas/Downing/Richardson/SWP
SWP???? Has he even played that much for Chelsea?
Carrick, being doing well this season for Utd giving the ball away.
Downing one trick wonder but will be in the squad every time now because of Red Face loving him.
Richardson, Cack.
Jenas, a long confusing pick for me i just don't get it.
When other players mentioned above play their hearts out and are ignored for there country, time and time agina :nono:
Pisces Iscariot
29-09-2006, 12:49
Richardson and Downing are in the squad due to lack of other options as left wingers Personally I think Downing deserves his place in the squad as he's a good crosser and he showed in his previous couple of appearances that he can supply Crouch. Richardson shouldn't be included as he's very poor at the moment and is only still in there because Joe Cole has been out.
SWP may not play as much as he'd like but he's a very good player and with Lennon out he's the natural alternative. If Lennon had been fit and playing then he'd be picked over SWP.
I don't agree with Jenas constantly being picked when the likes of Barton and Nolan are overlooked as I don't think he offers more than either of those players.
Carrick hasn't been bad apart from the game in midweek but even when he plays well it often goes unnoticed due to his playing style. His place is assured though as he's the only player of his type available to England.
Based on form, I'd expect Parker to be included with the absence of Hargreaves and Campbell based on form.
I'd also expect David James, back in the squad.
Thing is you know Rooney will probably waltz back into the team, and Johnson will be kicking his heels on the bench.
First name on the sheet:
Crouch ;)
Mandrill
29-09-2006, 15:06
Squad
Robinson
Kirkland
Foster
Brown ,Neville,Terry Ferdinand,A Cole.Carragher,Bridge.King,P Neville
Lampard.Gerrard,Parker, Carrick,Richardson,Jenas,Wright Phillilps,Downing
Defoe,Rooney,Johnson,Crouch
Maclaren is as much a **** as SGE.How the **** Richardson,Bridge,Jenas and Wright Phillips make the squad is beyond me 3 of them barely play for thier clubs :mad:..I'll give him Bridge as at LB he doesnt really have much choice but the other 3 :nono:
EDIT:Missed Carrick out
What do people expect from the FA's third choice? A man who has done very, very little in his role of club manager.
He is, and forever will be, on par with Graham Taylor. We will win NOTHING as long as he is in charge.
No Carrick which is a positive but why Jenas ahead of Nolan? :oh-hum:
Mandrill
29-09-2006, 15:24
No Carrick which is a positive but why Jenas ahead of Nolan? :oh-hum:
Sorry thats my mistake he is in there
cheeseypuffs
29-09-2006, 15:29
At least Bridge was playing quite well before the whole Cashley saga completed, but the others Mandrill mentioned :shrug:
The 3 little pigs
29-09-2006, 15:32
Though I dont really rate him myself, Richardson is in there as there arent too many about who can play wide left.
robzinski
29-09-2006, 15:36
Though I dont really rate him myself, Richardson is in there as there arent too many about who can play wide left.
Leon Osman's the closest you'll get to a fit Joe Cole in the Premiership at the moment.
But saying that, you can't have 3 Everton players in the same England squad, can you!
pompeyfan
29-09-2006, 15:42
Richardson and Downing are in the squad due to lack of other options as left wingers Personally I think Downing deserves his place in the squad as he's a good crosser and he showed in his previous couple of appearances that he can supply Crouch. Richardson shouldn't be included as he's very poor at the moment and is only still in there because Joe Cole has been out.
I know I'm biased but what about Matt Taylor (as mentioned above)? He's been playing regularly on the left wing for us (as well as left-back) and can go past players as well as cross and shoot with both feet (although naturally left footed) which imo makes him a better choice than Joe Cole for the left as he dosen't have to cut inside, so the defender won't know which way he's going and can take penalties.
Mandrill
29-09-2006, 15:55
I know I'm biased but what about Matt Taylor (as mentioned above)? He's been playing regularly on the left wing for us (as well as left-back) and can go past players as well as cross and shoot with both feet (although naturally left footed) which imo makes him a better choice than Joe Cole for the left as he dosen't have to cut inside, so the defender won't know which way he's going and can take penalties.
I don't disagree with that option.
No Carrick which is a positive but why Jenas ahead of Nolan? :oh-hum:
Did you see Jenas last night? I'm starting to think he's not so bad after all. He's a much better player than he was at Newcastle.
Also King and Defoe might have to pull out due to injuries
LouBarlow
29-09-2006, 16:31
I know I'm biased but what about Matt Taylor (as mentioned above)? He's been playing regularly on the left wing for us (as well as left-back) and can go past players as well as cross and shoot with both feet (although naturally left footed) which imo makes him a better choice than Joe Cole for the left as he dosen't have to cut inside, so the defender won't know which way he's going and can take penalties.
Joe is two-footed too and has proven himself in the England shirt - if fit he is first-choice there by a mile.
Pisces Iscariot
29-09-2006, 16:43
So Brown generally doesn't get into the England squad when he's playing well but when he's playing poorly and been dropped by United then he can get into the England squad...
I know I'm biased but what about Matt Taylor (as mentioned above)? He's been playing regularly on the left wing for us (as well as left-back) and can go past players as well as cross and shoot with both feet (although naturally left footed) which imo makes him a better choice than Joe Cole for the left as he dosen't have to cut inside, so the defender won't know which way he's going and can take penalties.
I think Taylor's a good player and I'd chose him over Richardson but Cole and Downing are both better options IMO. Cole's passing, dribbling and movement totally eclipse Taylor's abilities and I'd describe Cole as two footed as well. He can go down the outside as well as cutting in and he has scored some great goals with his left foot.
hornet_boys
29-09-2006, 16:46
It cheeses me off that it always shows Ben Foster (Man Utd) when it should show Ben Foster (Watford).
He has been picked purely on his performances for Watford, in fact, he has never even made a competative start for Man U yet. I know they own his registration and he is only on loan but is really grates. **rant over**
Well my point still stands from the first post, McClaren is an idiot and a hypocrit!
Richardson in front of Barry.
SWP has he even played this season!
Defoe has he even played or scored.
What happens when you put Sven, training monkey in charge.
edit joke.
Dont care about England anymore with squads like this, if the media bum you, you get in simple as!
Bypassing the swear censor is against the T&Cs.
Did you see Jenas last night? I'm starting to think he's not so bad after all. He's a much better player than he was at Newcastle.
Also King and Defoe might have to pull out due to injuries
In better form than Nolan? I know you are Mr Spurs but come on, Jermaine Jenas shouldn't be touching the England squad.
LouBarlow
29-09-2006, 19:29
Well my point still stands from the first post, McClaren is an idiot and a hypocrit!
Richardson in front of Barry.
SWP has he even played this season!
Defoe has he even played or scored.
What happens when you put Sven, training monkey in charge.
edit joke.
Dont care about England anymore with squads like this, if the media bum you, you get in simple as!
Have you actually watched any football this season?
SWP has played for Chelsea - albeit as a sub, but more bizarrely, you question Defoe, who has played, and indeed scored, for England already this term :nuts:
In better form than Nolan? I know you are Mr Spurs but come on, Jermaine Jenas shouldn't be touching the England squad.
Well that would be sexual assult ;)
Nice to know I'm "Mr Spurs" too! Maybe I didn't make myself clear, I have been a big critic of JJ, I didn't want us to sign him and I think we overpaid. He's always had a good touch and quick feet and we know his free kicks are very good. The main problem was his inconsistancy, when he couldn't do the above he was often anonymous. However he's shown willingness to get about the pitch a lot more. If he isn't scoring or creating chances at least he's not completely useless now.
As a backup player, I can't see anything wrong with his inclusion. He scored for England this summer and it's always handy to have a midfielder who might come off the bench and score. I'd have picked him over Lampard at the World Cup (that's not saying much though)
People still hyping about Barry? Not good enought for the England team no matter what form he is in! :D
Have you actually watched any football this season?
SWP has played for Chelsea - albeit as a sub, but more bizarrely, you question Defoe, who has played, and indeed scored, for England already this term :nuts:
Ok what happened to form?
Defoe has he scored in the prem? NO
SWP played a few games, any good NO because he has no form because doesnt play regularly.
Why is Richardson there? He has been rubbish.
Why is the England squad not picked on form rarther than media friendly/trendy clubs!?????
Don't care about England when red face is messing it up!
Have to agree, swp doesnt deserve to be anywhere near the squad. And so what if defoe scored for england, he's done nothing else and looked extremely poor for the rest of the time.
BlueDwarf
07-10-2006, 16:55
Shocking so far. Fat Frank and Chronick doing zip. Easy to see why Gerrard keeps coming in leaving the right flank empty.
Steg in the middle, a winger on the right, and maybe we'll start playing.
Would help if Crouch was of any reasonable quality, but that's asking too much.
I may as well be wearing my "I would rather watching Scunthorpe" T-Shirt.
They won 4-0 today, much better than these overpaid clowns at the moment :|
Bapapapa
07-10-2006, 17:13
Bring back Eriksson..!! :nuts:
This is shocking..
TigaSefi
07-10-2006, 17:14
Someone tell me who supposed to be the minnow team here ? ffs! this is beyond ****!
NEVILLE YOU ****!
BlueDwarf
07-10-2006, 17:26
Sven had no Plan B, but at least his Plan A usually got results.
When will SM make the changes? 88th minute? 89th minute?
TigaSefi
07-10-2006, 17:26
what the blinkin' hell was downing thinking? just centre the damn ball!
Arghh can't believe we dropped two points here!!!! pathetic!
Not surprised. Steve McClaren great managerial skills at their best. Sooner the FA sack him the better.
They should have got O'Neill when they had their chance.
Matt.Wild
07-10-2006, 17:52
Two words - crap performance :mad:
At least your not 4-2 down to CYPRUS!!!
:cry: :mad: :doh:
TigaSefi
07-10-2006, 17:56
Hehe at this rate, we might be supporting Scotland at the Euro champs!
sleep4ever
07-10-2006, 17:58
Two words - crap performance :mad:
The worst performance since....the last England match
A waste of 90 mins
Least it was the biggest home attendance outside of Wembley :razz:
Downing sucks.
He has never convinced me that he is good enough for this level. But after a performance such as this it would be unfair to pick on the whole player when most if not all were under par.
TigaSefi
07-10-2006, 18:06
He has never convinced me that he is good enough for this level. But after a performance such as this it would be unfair to pick on the whole player when most if not all were under par.
Lampard should be dropped along with Carrick! Gerrard and Parker should be in the middle but unfortunately Gerrard got a yellow card.
Too many people determined to score themselves, loads of opportunites to lay on others were wasted by players going for glory.
Now 5-2 down to Cyprus :cry: and Dunne sent off.
He has never convinced me that he is good enough for this level. But after a performance such as this it would be unfair to pick on the whole player when most if not all were under par.
True the team effort was poor, except defensively. Downing though I don't rate at all at this level. He's a winger who can't seem to beat a man and whip crosses in.
Someone told me Carrick was playing but I didnt believe them until Motty said his name about 5 mins from the end.
pompeyfan
07-10-2006, 18:16
It's about time players were dropped if not performing for the team and not have their places safe regardless. No one should be guaranteed an England place and conversly no player should be excluded if his performances are good enough.
Unfortunately our management never seems to get it right, take Beckham - under Sven he was never dropped regardless, under McLaren he won't be picked regardless- whats wrong with the middle ground of picking him if on form for the squad? The way things are going Lampard could be our new Beckham.
BlueDwarf
07-10-2006, 18:22
Just all rubbish. Manager, team, play, subs, players.
gjkendall
07-10-2006, 18:23
What a shocker...almost makes me wish I was Scottish!
I watched the england match :(
but I AM scottish :)
I watched the england match :(
but I AM scottish :)
I wondered where you got all you're insider infomation from. You're Fergie! ;)
ralph wiggum
07-10-2006, 19:14
Where was Gerrard supposed to be playing? I was under the impression it was right midfield, but apart from the first 10 mins he always seemed to be in the middle or out left alongside Downing. We desperatley needed some width on the right & Neville can't do it all.
King had a good game but otherwise... :oh-hum:
D J Fryer
07-10-2006, 19:21
Got right annoyed with Gerrard - play on the ******* wing where you've been asked to rather than play inside and make it easy for them. Downing was just limp, absolutely pathetic performance. Best England player for effort and overall play was Crouch IMO and unlike others I think Carrick had an alright game - it didn't help that Lampard and Gerrard were intent on playing on top of him. I sometimes doubt the manager's tactical nouse but by god are our players stupid if they can't see for themselves what's wrong - no width, midfielders playing on top of each other. It'll be nice when Cole if fit as at least he can go past people. Waste of 90 mins watching that crap
Don't get your knickers in a twist everyone. England will still qualify.
fothy123
07-10-2006, 20:23
Spot on JCL, top 2 qualify so there is virtually no chance on England not qualifying out of that fairly easy group even if they don't play that great.
Much harder job for us with both world cup finalists and a team from the last 8.
TigaSefi
07-10-2006, 20:30
I thought Gerrard came in cos lampard was doing a **** poor imitation of a footballer barring the last 5 mins and Carrick was anonymous - nicely place sideways passes doesn't make one a good footballer. Hargreaves was sorely missed.
LouBarlow
07-10-2006, 20:31
If England don't qualify from that group they should retire from international football :lol:
thought they were shocking tonight, i see no real difference in the way they play to how they played with Ericsson. Beckham must feel terrible knowing he cannot get into that team. They don't weem to be able to string two passes together. How many times did we give the ball away?
It's about time players were dropped if not performing for the team and not have their places safe regardless. No one should be guaranteed an England place and conversly no player should be excluded if his performances are good enough.
Unfortunately our management never seems to get it right, take Beckham - under Sven he was never dropped regardless, under McLaren he won't be picked regardless- whats wrong with the middle ground of picking him if on form for the squad? The way things are going Lampard could be our new Beckham.
My thoughts exactly.
LouBarlow
07-10-2006, 22:07
It's about time players were dropped if not performing for the team and not have their places safe regardless. No one should be guaranteed an England place and conversly no player should be excluded if his performances are good enough.
Unfortunately our management never seems to get it right, take Beckham - under Sven he was never dropped regardless, under McLaren he won't be picked regardless- whats wrong with the middle ground of picking him if on form for the squad? The way things are going Lampard could be our new Beckham.
More Lampard-bashing nonsense - you obviously missed the last 2 seasons of premiership football where he outscored attackers from other teams.
It's a shame when a player becomes a martyr because of the club team he plays for.
(scoff if you will, but it's amazing that he becomes your PE #1 when we have ****-stains like Downing in the squad :lol: )
Fat Bloke
07-10-2006, 23:49
Remember the only reason England haven't won a World Cup or Euro Championship recently was solely down to Sven. And the reason we've played crap since he left is er.....
pompeyfan
08-10-2006, 01:22
More Lampard-bashing nonsense - you obviously missed the last 2 seasons of premiership football where he outscored attackers from other teams.
It's a shame when a player becomes a martyr because of the club team he plays for.
(scoff if you will, but it's amazing that he becomes your PE #1 when we have ****-stains like Downing in the squad :lol: )
No I never missed anything - he's been brilliant at club level on that basis deserved a chance in the England team, couyple of games off form for England fair enough, but he was awful in the world cup and has been awful for England since so he should be dropped and someone else given a chance - his place shouldn't be guaranteed regardless as that gives no incentive to put more effort in to play better. Look at Rooney, he knows he won't be dropped so no incentive to put extra effort in, unlike Crouch who knows his place isn't guaranteed so at least looks like he's trying. I agree about Downing though and said so earlier in this very thread.
I would like to see England give different players a run out regardless of what club they play for if they're playing well on a regular basis, currently players are picked based on who they play for or column inches in the papers and said players are virtually guaranteed a spot in the team and thats wrong, if they play poorly they should be dropped and someone else given a chance then maybe we may see a bit more effort and urgency to their international performances and if not, then someone who is hungry to try should have a go. I'd also like to see a policy of only picking players who have started say at least 75% of their clubs matches recently to stop the farcical situation of picking players who can't get in their club side or been out injured for ages walking straight into the England squad ahead of players playing week in, week out, unfortunately none of this will ever happen and England will continue to struggle against anyone good or half decent and lay the blame on dodgy refs, unfair penalty shootouts or an opposition player misbehaving rather than look at the real reasons for failure - lets be honest, England have only qualified for the last few tournements due to incredibly lucky easy groups and when we were drawn with one of the big guns, it was the worst Germany side in years.
LouBarlow
08-10-2006, 06:54
You don't build a team by constantly chopping and changing players because they have had a few bad games.
Lampard is one of the best, most respected midfielders in Europe, and has a great scoring record for England, so he should play.
TigaSefi
08-10-2006, 07:01
Couldn't give a toss who lamp plays for, he is playing like a tosser at the moment.
LouBarlow
08-10-2006, 07:42
That's a lot of tossing.
George vader
08-10-2006, 07:58
You don't build a team by constantly chopping and changing players because they have had a few bad games.
Lampard is one of the best, most respected midfielders in Europe, and has a great scoring record for England, so he should play.
If he didn't play for Chelsea would you have the same opinion??? ;)
LouBarlow
08-10-2006, 08:01
If he didn't play for Chelsea would you have the same opinion??? ;)
Yes.
Which is why I think Gerrard and Rooney should still be playing - neither are particularly in-form either.
andybhoy
08-10-2006, 08:02
So now we can't criticise certain players for being off form for the last 7 or 8 matches, because they play for Chelsea? Next you'll be calling it Lampardphobia =P
No player should be immune from criticism, just because of who they play for. Lampard gets criticised because he's off form and not because he plays for Chelsea. It looks like Chelsea fans are starting to believe Jose's paranoia.
Ever slagged off Gary Neville?
LouBarlow
08-10-2006, 08:07
Ever slagged off Gary Neville?
Nope - only his brother.
andybhoy
08-10-2006, 08:14
Phil was ok - he certainly didn't deserve all the abuse he got - not his fault he's not quite good enough.
Lampard is good enough, he's one of the most exceptional players in the premiership today. But he's not playing well for his country and needs to sort it out. But if he doesn't, he shouldn't be playing.
That's not lampard bashing.
Hargreaves, now he got a bashing playing for England.
Sadly I went to the match last night, and it was one of the worst live games that I've been to, and this is from a Boro supporter! But I do feel that the criticism of Downing is a bit harsh. Time after time he made runs only for Cole/Lampard to play the ball sideways to each other, then when Downing had stopped and was coming back they would pass him the ball when he had his back to goal and a defender up his arse. I was sat beside a Chelsea fan, and he even he couldn't understand what they playing at. His comment at one point was that they 'must be keeping the seat for Joe Cole'. But despite all this he was still the only one to get any kind of quality crosses into the box.
But, to agree with everyone else, Lampard was awful!
Hopefully Sven will make a few changes for Wednesday. Dropping some of the untouchables would be a good start as it might give them a kick up the arse that they need!
Mandrill
08-10-2006, 11:45
Remember the only reason England haven't won a World Cup or Euro Championship recently was solely down to Sven. And the reason we've played crap since he left is er.....
Because they gave his job to his assistant and the only differance in the team is the exclusion of Beckham..which IMo was doen purely for McClaren to show it was now ''his'' team.
You can't tell me it's not worth haveing Beckham on the bench when you are 0-0 in a home game and need a goal???
England were DIRE. TWO things missing. Goals & Beckham. Or is that Beckham & Goals. Either way the England team need Beckham more than Beckham needs England. Why Beckham was dropped when half the team in the world cup played a lot worse than him I'll never know. Most of the England goals in the world cup came via him. As for Mclaren being Eriksons RHM he should know the team more & by now & have a top class team from what should be good players. The minute Mclaren was picked as England manager my heart went down & getting rid of Beckham confirmed the guy is useless. Slippery slide started by Erikson is continuing.
MaxNutter
08-10-2006, 13:17
i was there and it was truly poor ... the worst thing was the lack of width ... i found the substitutions to be bizarre ... should have left Downing on, at least he got wide, and brought SWP on for Fat Frank (who sucked!), and moved Gerrard inside ... two wide men ... and instead of bringing off Rooney, he should have swapped (the awful) Crouch for Bent ... imo ...
Fat Bloke
08-10-2006, 13:49
Crouch did far more than Rooney though.
Out of the two Crouch looked more likely to score.
MaxNutter
08-10-2006, 15:34
Out of the two Crouch looked more likely to score.
probably unintentionally ... off his arse ...
cpheonix
08-10-2006, 17:57
C'mon, that's not very insightful, is it? I agree with your bashing of Lampard cos he was (and is most of the times) pretty awful. But Crouch at least had scoring opportunities and made a cert for Rooney, who mis-controlled it.
Why can't mclaren see sense and drop Lampard and Downing and bring back Beckham. In games like yesterday we could've done with his quality crossing, even if he started on the bench. as for King being Englands MoM, that is rubbish. I agree with the poster who said he got beaten for pace a few times.
probably unintentionally ... off his arse ...
Crouch doesn't score for one game and now he should be subbed :nuts:
Perhaps Defoe or Bent did deserve a chance but for me at least it wouldn't be at the expense of Crouch it would be instead of Rooney, who has I have said before despite all the massive hype the surrounds him as yet to convince at this level.
Fat Bloke
08-10-2006, 18:38
Rooney, who has I have said before despite all the massive hype the surrounds him as yet to convince at this level.
Think they said on 5Live he hasn't scored at International level for 2 years.
How can you say he's yet to convince? :lol:Did no one see Euro 2004?
Did no one see Euro 2004?
Remind me how many years ago that was ?
LouBarlow
08-10-2006, 20:29
Yeah but we have the pitchfork carrying mob after Lampard's blood and he scored as recently as 2 goals 2 games ago :nuts:
Rooney hasn't scored for yonks and somehow doesn't get any stick...mental.
How can you say he's yet to convince? :lol:Did no one see Euro 2004?
Couple of good games and we are meant to see him as a World Beater? He doesn't seem to set up many for England, doesn't score many and yet we still are meant to see him as the Great Savior? :|
A mighty 2. And he's been in one other major competition since, playing under a **** coach who decided to play him (and thus heaping a stupid amount of pressure on him) 70% fit, if that.
playing under a **** coach who decided to play him (and thus heaping a stupid amount of pressure on him) 70% fit, if that.
I'm not sure if you're referring to Sven or Ferguson in recent times :lol:
You're either insane, or Chelsea/Liverpool supporters if you'd prefer to see anyone else in place of Rooney. And Lou, he gets plenty of stick in the papers.
And anyway, my original point stands. He has convinced at this level. I'm not denying he's going through a bad spell though.
LouBarlow
08-10-2006, 20:35
You're either insane, or Chelsea/Liverpool supporters if you'd prefer to see anyone else in place of Rooney. And Lou, he gets plenty of stick in the papers.
I am insane sure, but I'd pick Crouch in front of Rooney at the moment...goals are quite handy when you're a forward.
I'd like to see Crouch and Rooney given a bit more time personally.
LouBarlow
08-10-2006, 20:40
I'd like to see Crouch and Rooney given a bit more time personally.
I see no problem with that - I don't want Rooney dropped, I was merely pointing out the inconsitencies of those calling for the dropping of a midfielder who scored a mere two games ago, yet nowhere a mention of a striker who hasn't scored for 2 seasons.
Must be because Frank's a tubster and Rooney's a lean mean machine. :suspect:
LouBarlow
08-10-2006, 21:26
Must be because Frank's a tubster and Rooney's a lean mean machine. :suspect:
:lol:
Could also be that one of them plays for one of the biggest supported clubs in the world and the other plays for the most hated ;)
TigaSefi
08-10-2006, 21:35
Get over it, Lampard is playing **** for England. Full Stop.
AJ (when fit) and Rooney would be good for me, Crouch and Rooney lack too much pace for my liking. England are so dull at the moment, they seem to be completely devoid of ideas and creativity going forwards. Hope Joe Cole gets fit soon.
Pisces Iscariot
08-10-2006, 21:47
:lol:
Could also be that one of them plays for one of the biggest supported clubs in the world and the other plays for the most hated ;)
Or it could be that England have an other world-class attacking central midfielder but are quite short when it comes to support strikers?
LouBarlow
08-10-2006, 22:43
Or it could be that England have an other world-class attacking central midfielder but are quite short when it comes to support strikers?
Scholes has retired though surely?
If you mean Gerrard - he was as **** as fat Frank on saturday...he's also scored less goals for England, in more games too, but hey, when have goals ever mattered?
Fat Frank should be dropped but never in a millions years will be.
Perhaps when he goes missing the whole game on Wed but scores a 30 yarder it will all be ok!
LouBarlow
08-10-2006, 23:34
Fat Frank should be dropped but never in a millions years will be.
Perhaps when he goes missing the whole game on Wed but scores a 30 yarder it will all be ok!
Erm yeah it would be :thinking: :nuts: :nuts: :nuts: :thinking:
Pisces Iscariot
09-10-2006, 07:23
Scholes has retired though surely?
If you mean Gerrard - he was as **** as fat Frank on saturday...he's also scored less goals for England, in more games too, but hey, when have goals ever mattered?
Well he was playing out of his favoured position to accommodate Lampard as he has done for the last couple of years be that on the right or as the holding player. Has Gerrard ever been given a run of games where he's consistently been the attacking central midfielder with the freedom afforded to Lampard? Despite that his record of 10 in 51 is still quite comparable to Lampard's 12 in 49 and there's also more to a midfielders game than scoring goals.
If we're going by goalscoring records though Gerrard is leading 4-2 this year in all internationals and 3-0 in goals in competitive games.
LouBarlow
09-10-2006, 07:27
Well he was playing out of his favoured postion to accomodate Lampard as he has done for the last couple of years be that on the right or as the holding player.
Gerrard seemed to have a free role to me on saturday :thinking: Certainly wasn't playing on the wing.
TigaSefi
09-10-2006, 07:27
The thing about Gerrard he works his socks off and Fat Frank trundle between the middle circle in case a ball comes his way to launch a shot from 25 yards.
LouBarlow
09-10-2006, 07:40
:lol:
Pisces Iscariot
09-10-2006, 08:01
Gerrard seemed to have a free role to me on saturday :thinking: Certainly wasn't playing on the wing.
I don't think that was a tactical decision just the result of Gerrard not being a natural winger and trying to get involved as he seemed to drift more as the game progressed. It was certainly to the detriment of the team that he kept coming inside but it was also to the detriment of the team that he was starting on the right at all IMO.
Lampard on the other hand started in his favoured position had all the freedom in the world and did absolutely nothing.
The funny thing is that in playing that midfield four you're sacrificing some of Gerrard's game by having him start on the right and as he's not a wide player he inevitably end up drifting inside. When he drifts inside he starts to encroach on Lampard's space and it also decreases Carrick's creative options as he likes to pass to wide players on the move. So of the four midfielders only one wasn't negatively affected directly by the selection and he's a limited player who had a **** game anyway. :lol:
My thoughts:
Robinson - was solid and didn't flap. A couple of useful saves and blocks. 7
Neville - was very good in the first half but not so good in the second. Generally solid though depsite some stry passes and the missed sitter. 7
King - quite tidy and dependable but lacked pace. 7
Terry - had less to do than King but still neat and tidy. 7
Cole - saved England again defensively but was atrocious going forward. Poor crossing and did want to take anyone on. 6
Gerrard - No positional discipline at all, putting Neville under too much pressure. He worked tirelessly but wasn't playing well which was summed up by the yellow card. 5
Carrick - didn't do much wrong but didn't much right either. He wasn't helped by having Lampard and Gerrard failing to get inot any decent postions to recieve a pass. 5
Lampard - Did nothing of note in the entire 90 minutes. Poor shooting, bad passes and no spark. 3
Downing - Everynow and again he whips in a good cross but it far too rare and he can't take on players. A bit like Beckham but without the quality. 4
Rooney - his work rate was tremendous but he bang out of form. He needs a break soon. 4
Crouch - looked like he could get a goal but wasted a couple of good chances. He was still the best player outside of the defence though. 5
SWP - made an impact immediately and was the only player to worry the Macedonian defenders. So why in the name of Christ Almighty wasn't he brought on until the 70th minute.
Defoe - looked like he was starting to worry the defence just as the final whistle blew. Once again why wait until the game is nearly over to make the change?
Parker - didn't play, but surely he would have been worth bringing on in place of Lampard. It couldn't have got any worse.
McClaren - I will see how he responds on Wednesday. Should have made the changes earlier and should have been braver with his tactics. The only bit credit I shall give him is at least he is honest. Post match he stated we were rubbish going forward which is far more than Sven would ever do.
Overall it's all very poor but at least we don't feel as bad as the French fans will do at the moment. Or the Irish. Or the Welsh.
MaxNutter
09-10-2006, 08:34
Crouch doesn't score for one game and now he should be subbed :nuts:
Perhaps Defoe or Bent did deserve a chance but for me at least it wouldn't be at the expense of Crouch it would be instead of Rooney, who has I have said before despite all the massive hype the surrounds him as yet to convince at this level.
no, Crouch looked out of his depth (that must be deep!!), and had ****** up a few good crosses with his 'i'm crap in the air' antics, and was beginning to fall deeper infield and further out of the game ... whereas Rooney was at least trying to make things happen and grab the game by the scruff of the neck (i thought i could see the red-mist descending at one point) ...
cpheonix
09-10-2006, 09:41
Crouch looked out of his depth? Wow, I'm sure it was Crouch who scored against the same team to save our blushes last time. Didnt Rooney miss chances too on saturday, so is he out of his depth?
Downing is so bad, it'll be better if we have Bridge there. People complain that Beckham had no pace and couldnt beat a man - well, Downing is like the left-wing version and not even in Beck's class! I'd like to see Crouch and Defoe up front again and maybe Rooney as an attacking midfielder in Lampards place, with SWP on the right. I dont think we can drop Rooney but I think he'd do more of an effective job running from deep.
MaxNutter
09-10-2006, 09:50
Crouch looked out of his depth? Wow, I'm sure it was Crouch who scored against the same team to save our blushes last time. Didnt Rooney miss chances too on saturday, so is he out of his depth?
Downing is so bad, it'll be better if we have Bridge there. People complain that Beckham had no pace and couldnt beat a man - well, Downing is like the left-wing version and not even in Beck's class! I'd like to see Crouch and Defoe up front again and maybe Rooney as an attacking midfielder in Lampards place, with SWP on the right. I dont think we can drop Rooney but I think he'd do more of an effective job running from deep.
Crouch looked fine in the away game against Macedonia, just not in this one ... maybe 'out of his depth' is wrong, maybe 'out of sorts' would have been better ...
maybe it was the crowd mentality, but things tangibley livened up every time Rooney got on the ball, whereas Crouch seemed to miscontrol it, or give it away ... although everybody seemed to do that a lot too ...
Downing at least used the width, linked up with Cole and got about 2 or 3 good crosses in, one of which Crouch should of buried, but it came off his 50p shaped head and went nowhere ... it's just a pity AJ wasn't fit ...
cpheonix
09-10-2006, 10:37
That's rubbish, Downing put in 1 good cross the whole game and the keeper pulled off a decent save from Crouch's header - Gary Neville should've buried the rebound. Also Crouch put in a lovely ball for Rooney, I cant remember him mis-controlling that. Downing gave away the ball so much, and talk about miscontrol, that would have to go to Rooney as being the main culprit.
I don't understand a manager who wants to play with wingers yet plays a central midfielder wide on the right, yet has a natural winger sitting on the bench. Ok I know SWP hasn't played much for Chelsea, but in my mind if you pick a player for the squad then they should be good enough to play. Also talks about needing a bit of pace, yet none of the more attacking players are known for their pace.
Both Rooney and Carrick haven't exactly been receiving plaudits for their club performances lately, so brings in to question McLaren saying that he is going to pick players on form, especially as Scott Parker has been playing well this season and would have been a more natural replacement for Hargreaves than Carrick.
I was disappointed when the FA announced that McLaren was going to be given the England job, but thought let's give him a chance to see what he can do. let's see how he responds with Wednesday's game, will he drop some of the players or will he pick the same team and hope they put in a decent performance.
One plus for us is that Russia dropped points at home as well.
MaxNutter
09-10-2006, 10:52
That's rubbish, Downing put in 1 good cross the whole game and the keeper pulled off a decent save from Crouch's header - Gary Neville should've buried the rebound. Also Crouch put in a lovely ball for Rooney, I cant remember him mis-controlling that. Downing gave away the ball so much, and talk about miscontrol, that would have to go to Rooney as being the main culprit.
iirc, Downing put a couple of good crosses into the box in the first half, which Crouch couldn't do anything with ... at least that's how it looked from the North Stand ...
Rooney was his usual (recent) self unfortunately ...
who would you have on the left instead of Downing, when you stick SWP on the right ...
Keiron99
09-10-2006, 10:59
I don't think that was a tactical decision just the result of Gerrard not being a natural winger and trying to get involved as he seemed to drift more as the game progressed. It was certainly to the detriment of the team that he kept coming inside but it was also to the detriment of the team that he was starting on the right at all IMO.
Since when did you have to be a winger to play in a wide position? Most team's wide players aren't "natural wingers". At Liverpool, we've arguably only had 4 or 5 wingers in the last 25 years.
Gerrard plays his best football on the right of the midfield. Because his great strength is breaking forward, doing it from a wide position means and cutting in usually has more impact, whilst the central midfield / defence isn't left exposed if the attack breaks down. Basic stuff really. It's certainly the way Liverpool have done it since under Shankly.
Pisces Iscariot
09-10-2006, 11:54
Since when did you have to be a winger to play in a wide position? Most team's wide players aren't "natural wingers". At Liverpool, we've arguably only had 4 or 5 wingers in the last 25 years.
Gerrard plays his best football on the right of the midfield. Because his great strength is breaking forward, doing it from a wide position means and cutting in usually has more impact, whilst the central midfield / defence isn't left exposed if the attack breaks down. Basic stuff really. It's certainly the way Liverpool have done it since under Shankly.
Didn't say that you had to be natural winger to play there (furthermore I should clarify I was using winger interchangeably with attacking wide player rather than the classical dribbler on the touch line interpretation.) Some players are naturally more suited to playing wide though and while Gerrard is clearly capable of playing there due to his physical and technical abilities I personally don't think he's as tactically suited to being a wide player. Mainly due to natural instincts he tends to drift in field and pick up the ball there rather than collect it further up the pitch and out wide, particularly for England and especially when he's getting frustrated. This makes the play too narrow and easier to defend while the full back has to commit further forward to give some width which leaves a nice gap for counter attacks especially in a team with only one holding player. Plus in a number of his Liverpool games this season when he's tried to show some positional discipline (not necessarily good positioning) I've thought he's been on the periphery of games for good chunks.
I strongly disagree that Gerrard's best football comes when he's out wide and I'm guessing he would too or he would be dancing from the rooftops about playing wide right if it was getting the best out of him.
cpheonix
09-10-2006, 11:54
I would either put Bridge or even give Richardson a chance on the left. Downing's had his chance and he's blown it (many a time). Trust me, he only put in one good cross on Saturday, plus his general all-round play is awful.
As for Gerrard on the right, he may play well for Liverpool there (and a couple of times for England) but you cant deny on Saturday that he was constantly drifting in-field leaving Neville exposed. I'd definitely prefer seeing him in the middle when he's back from suspension, dropping lamps and putting SWP/lennon (when fit) on the right
dean richardson
09-10-2006, 12:46
with 20 mins to go i was wishing becks was on the bench. A humiliated becks with something to prove for the last 20 mins would have delivered some good crosses and added energy.
with 20 mins to go i was wishing becks was on the bench. A humiliated becks with something to prove for the last 20 mins would have delivered some good crosses and added energy.
True. I don't see why McLaren dropped him all together unless it's a "right I'm in charge" statement. Becks still has something to offer England. Whilst I probably wouldn't start with Becks, I'd certainly like the option to bring him on if things weren't going to plan. If McLaren prefers to have the option of a more passing player in the holding midfield role, I might even consider Becks for that instead of Carrick.
who would you have on the left instead of Downing, when you stick SWP on the right ...
Gareth Barry, got a better left foot than Downing and a better footballer all round!
Perhaps if a London club signed him he would suddenly be in the England squad.
The eng team is picked on trendy clubs and media bumming, its plain and simple!
Richardson he shouldn't even be in the squad as he spends most of his time on the utd bench when he is on the pitch does nout!
MaxNutter
09-10-2006, 14:55
Gareth Barry, got a better left foot than Downing and a better footballer all round!
Perhaps if a London club signed him he would suddenly be in the England squad.
The eng team is picked on trendy clubs and media bumming, its plain and simple!
Richardson he shouldn't even be in the squad as he spends most of his time on the utd bench when he is on the pitch does nout!
Downing doesn't play in London ... he's picked 'cos he's one of Mclaren's babies ...
i agree that Barry deserves another crack though ...
BlueDwarf
09-10-2006, 16:33
I'm sure Gerrard would have more goals/games if he shot at goal as many times as Lampard. We've gone from the ridiculous situation of Beckham never being dropped, to him never being played and Lampard never being dropped, or rested, or started on the bench.
Like the team, Mac has zero balance.
Talking about balance, Steg not playing on Weds could actually mean we have wide players on the wings in 4-4-2 with Bridge on the left and SWP on the right.
Unless he goes 3-5-2, a system that no-one plays and hasn't done too well for us before...
Robinson
Neville/Carra/Terry/Cole
SWP/Lamps/King/Bridge
Rooney/Lurch
DVDWotcha
09-10-2006, 16:44
That's rubbish, Downing put in 1 good cross the whole game and the keeper pulled off a decent save from Crouch's header - Gary Neville should've buried the rebound. Also Crouch put in a lovely ball for Rooney, I cant remember him mis-controlling that. Downing gave away the ball so much, and talk about miscontrol, that would have to go to Rooney as being the main culprit.
If Crouch is to put his height to best advantage he needs a good delivery and so far I've not been impressed. Bring back Beckham ?
I would either put Bridge or even give Richardson a chance on the left. Downing's had his chance and he's blown it (many a time). Trust me, he only put in one good cross on Saturday, plus his general all-round play is awful.
How long ago was it when England won 4-0 and Downing made 3 of the goals? A couple of months, maybe three?
Hasn't Richardson been given most of the second halves when Downing has been subbed because the (mainly) southern crowds get on his back because he isn't Joe Cole? From what I 'remember' Richardson has been crap, but maybe my memory isn't as good as yours. Bridge is a good full back, and from what I've seen of Ashley Cole, Bridge should be playing instead!
Keiron99
09-10-2006, 19:51
I strongly disagree that Gerrard's best football comes when he's out wide and I'm guessing he would too or he would be dancing from the rooftops about playing wide right if it was getting the best out of him.
Not sure who you follow then, I assume not Liverpool. Many people, myself included, think he played his best football at right back.
MaxNutter
09-10-2006, 20:45
Not sure who you follow then, I assume not Liverpool. Many people, myself included, think he played his best football at right back.
that once, or on many occasions?
Robinson
Neville/Carra/Terry/Cole
SWP/Lamps/King/Bridge
Rooney/Lurch
Why play a defender in the holding midfield position when you have Scott Parker in the squad
Robinson
Neville/King/Terry/Cole
SWP/Lampard/Parker/Bridge
Rooney/Crouch
cpheonix
10-10-2006, 09:25
Not sure who you follow then, I assume not Liverpool. Many people, myself included, think he played his best football at right back.
So are you saying that we should sacrifice our best attacking midfielder and place him at right-back? Even though you may think he plays better at right-back, he is no doubt our best AM.
I do agree with what others have been saying and trying Barry on the left. And if what I'm hearing about McLaren picking Jenas tommorrow is correct, my faith in him would definitely hit rock-bottom!
AdamBrunt
10-10-2006, 09:33
Not sure who you follow then, I assume not Liverpool. Many people, myself included, think he played his best football at right back.
And how many times has he played at RB ?? Very few. The most recent being the last 10 minutes the CL Final.
Now, if you're talking RM then that's different. It wasn't too long ago when he played most of a season for Liverpool at RM and many would say had his best season ever.
Time to continue the <s>arguments</s> discussions in this new thread:
http://www.thedvdforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=447495
Closing
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