View Full Version : Sub advice: Shortlist!!!
It's Christmas and I get to buy myself a subwoofer :clap:
I've got Tannoy M3 up front and M1 for my rears.budget
The question is, is it important to get a sub-woofer that's sonically matched with your other speakers or not?
My budget is 150 but I could stretch to 200.
Any advice would be much appreciated as I know nothing about subs, yet.
Cheers,
Phill
Originally posted by Phill
It's Christmas and I get to buy myself a subwoofer :clap:
I've got Tannoy M3 up front and M1 for my rears.budget
The question is, is it important to get a sub-woofer that's sonically matched with your other speakers or not?
My budget is 150 but I could stretch to 200.
Not really.
The sub is supposed to operate at frequencies your current speakers can't reproduce anyway, so a tonal match as such isn't really an issue.
Whichever sub you do get though, will need to be set up to work properly with your current speaker setup - ie output level and xover frequency etc, but all active subs come with controls for doing just that.
IMO the Paradigm PDR10 is as good as anything else I've heard in the £150 price bracket (not that I've heard every sub in the £150 price bracket mind you).
The Tannoy MXSUB10 is OK too, but I've heard some people saying it hums (but then I've heard that about the PDR10 too). I didn't notice either humming at the time.
Of the two, I'd say the Paradigm had the edge (but the demo room was different, different kit etc etc).
There are no doubt others too, which hopefully someone else can give you some advice on, so you can have a bigger choice.
I have a PS1000 Paradigm sub. It's pretty good for £200, (in terms of bass depth - control isn't quite so good, especially for music (which is why I don't use it for that), but to be honest, you'll find that's pretty common in budget subs) but only if you can site it away from the wall/corner - those three big vent tubes at the rear can get really boomy if you aren't careful.
I'm using the PDR-10 with Mission M74's, M7DS's and M7C1. I'm very pleased with the results.
The PDR-10 doesn't have a phase control, which may make placing the unit a little trickier, although most people don't realise that altering the cut-off frequency also alters the phase response, so it's worth playing.
I picked this sub after reading through hundreds of reviews which almost without exception praised its musicality as well as its impact for home cinema.
If possible, you should always audition audio equipment in your home. I didn't, but was lucky! Do as I say, not as I do!
Originally posted by Neon
most people don't realise that altering the cut-off frequency also alters the phase response
Please explain how this is possible. :confused:
Try this: http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/experiment/lowpass/lpf.html and check out how the phase alters. The phase of any given circuit will be different at different frequencies, but it will also change at any given frequency by varying the value of R1 (which is what happens when the cut off point is moved). Clearly, this is a passive design, whereas most active subs will use a more complex active filter, but the same phase shift rules will apply.
It doesn't mean that you should treat the cut-off control as a replacement for a proper phase shift, but it does allow you some variation, which may help to set the unit up.
I'm looking to get the Kef PSW1000 sub (also known as the coda s) for around £140. Does anyone have any experience with this sub?
I only have a small room (3.5 x 4.5m) and don't have much floorspace for a big sub.
Thanks
Some Coda S reviews here: http://www.audioreview.com/reviews/Subwoofer/product_48026.shtml
Originally posted by iabbott
I'm looking to get the Kef PSW1000 sub (also known as the coda s) for around £140. Does anyone have any experience with this sub?
I only have a small room (3.5 x 4.5m) and don't have much floorspace for a big sub.
Thanks
That sounds like an excellent price. Where are you getting it from?
Cheers,
Phill
Either Richer sounds or Hifi Junkies (www.hifijunkies.co.uk).
I've seen the coda s reviews on "audioreview.com", I just wondered if anyone else had any experience?
I think it is going to be better than a low price Yamaha - any thoughts?
Originally posted by iabbott
Either Richer sounds or Hifi Junkies (www.hifijunkies.co.uk).
I've seen the coda s reviews on "audioreview.com", I just wondered if anyone else had any experience?
I think it is going to be better than a low price Yamaha - any thoughts?
The CodaS is not the same sub as the PSW1000 - The CodaS is a bigger unit with a 10" driver.
The PSW1000 is smaller with an 8" unit - it's laso known as the Cresta sub.
Thanks, Mikek. It looks like you're right.
Is it any good though.
I phoned Richer customer service and asked about the 14-day returns on Internet purchases. Top deal, you can take it back to your local shop or get it piccked up again. The bloke tried to sell me the Mordent-short MSW20. He was quite insistent about it, telling me how much better value for money it is and how much better the build quality is. It's only a tenner more as well.
Do you think they just have a load of MSW20s that they want to shift or was he giving me good advice?
Originally posted by Phill
Thanks, Mikek. It looks like you're right.
Is it any good though.
I phoned Richer customer service and asked about the 14-day returns on Internet purchases. Top deal, you can take it back to your local shop or get it piccked up again. The bloke tried to sell me the Mordent-short MSW20. He was quite insistent about it, telling me how much better value for money it is and how much better the build quality is. It's only a tenner more as well.
Do you think they just have a load of MSW20s that they want to shift or was he giving me good advice?
I don't know how it sounds, but if it's the one I think it is, it only has an 8" driver (which itself has a cheapo foam surround) - you can get the PDR10 for the same price, with a 10" driver.
Richer now co-owns (I believe) Mordaunt Short, so it's no surprise they are pushing their stuff a bit (always assuming it actually is a Mordaunt Short - it could be bought in and badged).
BTW, Paradigm are not available over the net - you have to go into a store (they may do telephone mail order though)
Samantha
03-01-2002, 14:04
Hiya
I went in Richer sounds in Prestwich yesterday looking at the marantz and Yamaha dts receivers and when I said I was looking at buying a speaker setup to replace the ones I have he gave me the hard sell on the mordaunt-short speakers.They look nice infact they look very nice but are they as good as they look or are they just making a packet on them or have they just stocked to many and need to get rid.
Also while I'm on the subject which would you go for the.....The Marantz SR4200 or the Yamaha DSPAX620 (which has no RDS tuner like the Marantz)but there is a Yamaha RX-V520 for £299 with free delivery here (http://www.avland.co.uk/amplifier/index.htm#amp) has anyone used or know of this place........help me choose one plz.
Samantha
Originally posted by Samantha
Hiya
I went in Richer sounds in Prestwich yesterday looking at the marantz and Yamaha dts receivers and when I said I was looking at buying a speaker setup to replace the ones I have he gave me the hard sell on the mordaunt-short speakers.They look nice infact they look very nice but are they as good as they look or are they just making a packet on them or have they just stocked to many and need to get rid.
Also while I'm on the subject which would you go for the.....The Marantz SR4200 or the Yamaha DSPAX620 (which has no RDS tuner like the Marantz)but there is a Yamaha RX-V520 for £299 with free delivery here (http://www.avland.co.uk/amplifier/index.htm#amp) has anyone used or know of this place........help me choose one plz.
Samantha
Out of the two, I'd probably favour the Marantz, as it has ProLogic2 ansd a radio tuner.
Sound wise, while they may each have a slight character of their own, I doubt most people would really be able to really say one was better than the other - it's down to which you prefer I suppose. The Marantz has the better rep for stereo music, while the Yamaha is a touch more powerful, but I suspect neither has a decisive advantage over the other either way.
The Yamaha has the advantage of a 6 channel input which the SR4200 lacks - but this is only an issue if you plan to go for multichannel music, such as SACD or DVD-A, and with the dearth of decent software available (and the stuff that is has apparently been mixed/mastered poorly), there's hardly a stampede, especially with them both being around £25 a disc.
You can still use DTS multichannel music CDs on either though.
As for speakers, I've personally not heard the MS 900 series.
They seem reasonably well made though, and certainly look fine - whether this translates to good performance though, I couldn't say. They look a bit pricey IMO for what you get - only a demo would tell you for sure if they are worth the price (don't be fooled by the exotic looking speaker cones though - they aren't really).
Not overconvinced by the Premier system though - at £500, IMO you can do better for that sort of money - the sub looks like a rebadged Eltax, which are available for less than £100, and is only 80W with an 8" driver. Still, I haven't heard the system, so I could be wrong - but I'd lay money that for less than £500 you could get a speaker set which sounded better.
Phill
Have a look at the new Mission M70 sub, too.
It's available at £180 from QED (but I've not heard it)
Bit larger than average though, but fairly slimline too!
Here goes my short list,
KEF PSW1000 (Somebody said this was good a long time ago)
Mordaunt Short MSW20 (As suggested by RS, they claim it has good rumble for movies)
Yamaha YSTSW205 (Audio T says this is the best for under 200)
Mission m70as (Much reduced, it's normally about £230, so it must be good right)
Jamo A3sub.1 (The only sub under £200 that sevenoaks or Oxford Audio Consultants stock. I respect OACs oppinion.)
Problem is that although most of these are stocked at Richer sounds. Their demo room is closed for three weeks. :(
Ah well, I suppose their are worse problems to be faced with.
Phill
Originally posted by Samantha
Hiya
I went in Richer sounds in Prestwich yesterday looking at the marantz and Yamaha dts receivers and when I said I was looking at buying a speaker setup to replace the ones I have he gave me the hard sell on the mordaunt-short speakers.They look nice infact they look very nice but are they as good as they look or are they just making a packet on them or have they just stocked to many and need to get rid.
Also while I'm on the subject which would you go for the.....The Marantz SR4200 or the Yamaha DSPAX620 (which has no RDS tuner like the Marantz)but there is a Yamaha RX-V520 for £299 with free delivery here (http://www.avland.co.uk/amplifier/index.htm#amp) has anyone used or know of this place........help me choose one plz.
Samantha
I have the AX620 with Tannoy Mx4, Mx1, MxC setup...very good and easy to use.
I just happend to setup my grandads Marantz SR4200 on new year's day, and my first impressions are very good, the pro logic II has to be a bonus as is the tuner (although there is an ax620 with tuner)
I can't really compare sonically, the speakers he was using were old awia hifi ones...but the marantz has a few design issues:
1) you select the dsp, mode via a large knob which is basically a pain, until you get to know the cycle.
2) the power switch, isn't just on/off. It turns the machine fully off, and can't be switched on via remote
3) its slow ie you turn it on a a few seconds later it responds (their dvd player suffers the same fault)
4) the remote is generic for all their amps, which is misleading
5) oh and no OSD which would have helped the poor menus that it has.
but these are minor usage quibbles, personally I would go for the cheapest, as I doubt performance is tremendously different.
sharkey0903
06-01-2002, 19:21
Originally posted by Phill
Here goes my short list,
KEF PSW1000 (Somebody said this was good a long time ago)
Mordaunt Short MSW20 (As suggested by RS, they claim it has good rumble for movies)
Yamaha YSTSW205 (Audio T says this is the best for under 200)
Mission m70as (Much reduced, it's normally about £230, so it must be good right)
Jamo A3sub.1 (The only sub under £200 that sevenoaks or Oxford Audio Consultants stock. I respect OACs oppinion.)
Problem is that although most of these are stocked at Richer sounds. Their demo room is closed for three weeks. :(
Ah well, I suppose their are worse problems to be faced with.
Phill
Any decissions.....?
Ive been looking for something for around 140 / 150 quid myself and the KEF PSW1000 looks pretty smart. Only got a small room so dont really want anything to big. With an 8inch speaker it might offer more punch than rumble if that makes sense
No, not decided yet. I know nothing about subs so i'm having difficulty makeing a decision. I know of a shop that has the Yamaha in so I'm going to have a listen this saturday.
Thanks for telling me that a big cone is needed for rumble. I'm after rumble so I reckon that eliminates the 8" drivers. I think I'm torn betweee the Yamaha and the Tannoy MxSub-10 which I recently found for less than 200. Both of these have 10" cones and 150watt amps in them which I think will give me that cinema rumble that I want.
Phill
Originally posted by Phill
No, not decided yet. I know nothing about subs so i'm having difficulty makeing a decision. I know of a shop that has the Yamaha in so I'm going to have a listen this saturday.
Thanks for telling me that a big cone is needed for rumble. I'm after rumble so I reckon that eliminates the 8" drivers. I think I'm torn betweee the Yamaha and the Tannoy MxSub-10 which I recently found for less than 200. Both of these have 10" cones and 150watt amps in them which I think will give me that cinema rumble that I want.
Phill
Generally it's a fair assumption that a bigger driver will get down lower than a smaller one, but it's not always the case - a good 8" driver in a properly designed enclosure and with a decent amp, will still be better than a poor 10" driver, in a badly designed enclosure using a weak amplifier (and weak doesn't necessarily mean low watts (just like powerful doesn't necessarily mean high watts), although again, it's usually a fair assumption).
Only a listening test will settle the issue for you, but listen to a few at the same time, so you have some point of reference.
It's easy to be impressed with a single half decent sub in a demo room - it's only when you have something to compare it against (hopefully at the same time), that you can really judge it's capabilities.
While we're on the subject of sub-woofer FAQs
What's the difference between a downward firing sub and a front or side firing sub?
I've heard that downward firing subs offer more 'punch', whatever the hell 'punch' is suposed to mean :). Appaerntly, your floor absorbs unwanted high frequencies. I've also heard that they're less directional, which as far as I can see is a good thing for a sub, considering there's only one channel.
I've never heard any reasons for buying a front firing, other than the chap at Audio T reckons that the Yamaha 205 is the best for under 200 notes.
BTW, I'm off to Audio T for a listen to the Yamaha on saturday, followed by a trip to sevenoaks for the Jamo. I know it's better to listen to a few at a time but unfortuneatly, the only shop with more than one sub for less than 200 is Richer who won't let me in their listening room til February. :(
Phill
Phil - How did you get on with your demos?
I went to Audio T in Headington first. They had the Yamaha 205 for me to listen to. I was quite impressed. In the scene in Star Trek Generations when the old enterprise escapes the Nexus, It really added depth to the background rumble on the bridge of the Enterprise. There was also plenty of punch for big explosions. Unfortunately when bits of starship started getting blown off, I felt I could hear the location of the sub and it seemed to adversly affect the sound stage. I imagin that's due to them unwanted higher harmonics I've heard about.
Next I went listen to the Jamo A3sub.1. The bottom of the range Jamo sub. The specs were less impressive than the yamaha and I did feel that there was slightly less punch for big explosions but The little downward firing marvel filled the room with glorious non-directional, chest rattling rumble which is exactly what I was looking for. So when the nice salesman offered my 30 quid off it if I bought the ex-demo model, I bought myself a sub.
Once I got it home and plugged it in, I found that any fears about lack of punch were unfounded with a bit of good room placement and my floorstanding speakers helping out at the top end. I had that authentic room shaking experience. The only worry now is the neighbours.
Phill
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