Projection TV advice please

[Tyler Durden]

I was thinking of getting myself a WS TV in the new year, however having seen a few projection TVs I am now hoping to get one of those instead :). Don't know the first thing about them though :(. Advice please on what to look for in make/model. What can and usually does go wrong with them and are they expensive to repair.

Also the room its going to be used in is about 10ft wide and we'll be sitting about 6ft from the screen, is this too close for a 40" (min) screen ?

[MikeK]

Originally posted by Tyler Durden
I was thinking of getting myself a WS TV in the new year, however having seen a few projection TVs I am now hoping to get one of those instead :). Don't know the first thing about them though :(. Advice please on what to look for in make/model. What can and usually does go wrong with them and are they expensive to repair.

Also the room its going to be used in is about 10ft wide and we'll be sitting about 6ft from the screen, is this too close for a 40" (min) screen ?


As the centrepiece of a dedicated HC room, I don't think anyone would argue about an RPTV (or even a front projector) over a conventional CRT based set.

However, if it's a general purpose TV you are after - they aren't that great. They work well in dimly lit rooms, but they have poor contrast levels in comparison to a direct view CRT set, and if the room is brightly lit, they don't work well at all IMO.
The bulbs/tubes have a limited life (depends on duty cycle and power on hours, and the type of RPTV - most are CRT based) and can be very expensive to replace (it's something they don't tell you when you are buying the set - the shock comes sometime afterwards :) )


As for distance away from the screen - it's really up to you.
Personally I think it might be a touch too close, but then I don't like sitting in the front row at the cinema either :).
Depends on the quality of the image I suppose - if it's very good with no obvious line structure then you may well be OK.

[Tyler Durden]

Cr@p ! I may have to have a rethink as it will be the main TV in the living room, any idea as to life span/replacement cost for the bulbs/tubes.

[MikeK]

Originally posted by Tyler Durden
Cr@p ! I may have to have a rethink as it will be the main TV in the living room, any idea as to life span/replacement cost for the bulbs/tubes.

Not really an expert here, as I don't have an RPTV myself.

If it's a CRT based set (as opposed to the newer LCD types) then they have 3 little CRTs, one for each colour.
The problem in an RPTV set is that these tubes burn brighter than normal direct view TV tubes, and inevitably this shortens the life of the phosphor coating.
It depends very much on how high you set your brightness/contrast, which in turn is related to the ambient light levels in the room - if the room's bright, then the TV needs to be too.
The output from the tubes reduces over their lifetime, and the image loses it's sharpness. Eventually it's time to get them replaced - but in many cases you may as well scrap the TV - the cost is too high.
Another problem which may happen, especially in brightly lit rooms, where the TV brightness/contrast has been turned up, is screen burn - usually a channel logo or a video game etc (something which doesn't change for long periods) - if this happens, you can't get rid of it (unless you replace the tube(s) affected).

As to the actual time span - it's very hard to say, as it depends on the above, your usage pattern of the set etc etc.
Obviously a set being used as the main TV in the house will not last as long as one used a few nights a week to watch a few films etc. You are probably looking at somewhere between 3-5 yrs at a guess (but it could be much sooner or much longer - it's hard to say - too many variables).

[pjweston]

It's important to note that the CRTs in a CRT RPTV use the same basic technology as the CRTs in a 'conventional' TV. The two major differences are that:

- there are three small single colour tubes in a CRT RPTV (rather than a single combined tube)

- the electron guns in the RPTV CRTs may be driven slightly harder in order to counteract the light lost during transmission (scattered by the mirror and screen).

If you bear this in mind then you'll see that the inherent problems are very similar to a conventional TV. Just like a conventional TV, therefore, the tubes 'fail' because the electron guns in begin to fluctuate outside of their original design spec. causing the picture to becomes too dark/ bright. The degradation is very gradual, though, and you're unlikely to notice any signicant difference for years.

A cheap CRT tube is estimated to have a 'life' of around 10,000 hours whereas a top quality one might last 30,000 hours. Since the CRTs in a (CRT) RPTV are being driven hard I would guess that the 10,000 hour figure is more appropriate. So basically, after 10,000 hours of use your RPTV will no longer be capable of ouputting a 'as good as new' picture.

As for screen burn on CRT RPTVs, this is clearly is an issue as the manuals strenuously warn you about it. All I can say is that I've never personally experienced a problem and I don't take any special steps to cater for burn. I suspect that it's really only a problem if you have the brightness/ contrast turned way up.

LCD RPTVs (increasingly common, nowadays)are an entirely different matter, of course. They should - in theory - always give a perfect picture as all they are doing is shining a (very) bright light through an array of (non-degradable) LCD pixels. They tend to have trouble reproducing blacks, though, as a certain amount of light always leaks through the LCD panels. Unlike CRTs, LCD RPTVs do 'fail' suddenly when their bulb burns out. Since these bulbs are so bright, they usually have a very short lifespan - usually < 500 hours on an LCD projector, more on an LCD RPTV - and they usually require a fan to cool them. In this case, I believe that the bulbs are considered 'consumables' (and they can be quite expensive: ~£40 each).

Finally, I'd echo the comment about an RPTV's relative lack of contrast/ brightness. If you plan to use the set in a brightly lit room then you're probably better off with a conventional TV.

ps If you're concerned that the tube(s) may fail entirely, just take out an extended warrantee. These do not make any special provision for RPTVs so you should be covered if one of the tubes fails entirely.

[Sprout Crumble]

I'm not sure I totally agree about the brightness/contrast not being good enough in bright light. Most modern RPtv's are fine in this respect and in a dimmer room are possibly even brighter.

Getting back to Tylers original post, the thing that would put me off is the size of the room its going in to. I would say 6ft away from a 40"ws is not enough. I sit (lay?, its in a bedroom ;) ) about 8-9ft away from a 43" 4:3 RPtv and I would not like to go much closer. Also, because of the relatively poor tolerance of this kind of tv to wide angles of viewing, a good quality viewing position would be hard to set up for more than one or two people. My tv is fine in the bedroom because its set up perfectly for a single viewing position but with seating likely to be close and at varying positions, forget it.

As much as I hate to, given the outrageous pricing, a quality 36" CRT would be my choice in that room. If the budget can stretch to £3500, (you didn't say how much :D ), a 42" plasma set stuck on the wall would be absolutely perfect.

[MikeK]

If the budget can stretch to £3500, (you didn't say how much ), a 42" plasma set stuck on the wall would be absolutely perfect.


You wouldn't get much of a plasma monitor for that, at least not yet. :(

As for the brightness issue on RPTVs - well, they are better than they were, but in a brightly lit room, they still can't compete with a direct view TV.
Considering that light follows the inverse square law with regards to intensity, a 7" CRT in a RPTV would have to display about 6x brighter than a conventional TV set's tube in order to project the same level of brightness onto a 42" screen.
Although they do burn brighter, the phosphor coating wouldn't last that long at 6x the intensity.


As for projector bulbs being £40, try more like £250+, and a typical life of 1500-2000 hrs.

[Philc]

Originally posted by MikeK

If the budget can stretch to £3500, (you didn't say how much ), a 42" plasma set stuck on the wall would be absolutely perfect.


You wouldn't get much of a plasma monitor for that, at least not yet. :(

As for the brightness issue on RPTVs - well, they are better than they were, but in a brightly lit room, they still can't compete with a direct view TV.
Considering that light follows the inverse square law with regards to intensity, a 7" CRT in a RPTV would have to display about 6x brighter than a conventional TV set's tube in order to project the same level of brightness onto a 42" screen.
Although they do burn brighter, the phosphor coating wouldn't last that long at 6x the intensity.


As for projector bulbs being £40, try more like £250+, and a typical life of 1500-2000 hrs.

I don't know cos Reoc have launched a 42" Plasma and are knocking it out at Safeway for £3995. This will ultimately bring the prices down to an affordable range. Similar really to what Tesco did with the Wharfedale 750.

[MikeK]

Originally posted by Philc


I don't know cos Reoc have launched a 42" Plasma and are knocking it out at Safeway for £3995. This will ultimately bring the prices down to an affordable range. Similar really to what Tesco did with the Wharfedale 750.


Perhaps, but £3995 isn't £3500.

In any case, I doubt that many people will be shelling out four grand on a TV (even if it's a Plasma set) from a manufacturer with next to no reputation at all in consumer electronics. Taking a punt on a £100 DVD player is one thing, but £4K on a TV is a somewhat different proposition, at least IMO.

Personally can't see what all the fuss is about plasma TVs. Sure they look good, and as they hang on the wall, they are easy to accomodate, but they are horrendously expensive, and the picture isn't that great either, at least close up.