BluRay , stillborn...

[RobDickinson]

According to this (http://www.ultimateavmag.com/hddiscplayers/706dsamsungbd/index6.html) article, the Samsung player was released 2-3 months too early, has bad code that messes up the picture (why its not sharp) and even worse its 5.1 output is duff and could kill your speakers.

Sony's 1st player was based on this samsung device so will be delayed also.

Oh and as for 1080p, it looks like the (one of anyhow)problem is when the device's decoder outputs 1080i and then upscales that to 1080p. So much for 1080p output eh.

[Grandmaster]

I'm fairly sure the 'softness' applies to the HDMI output only. People have put the Pioneer and Samsung players side by side and could not tell the difference over component.

[GarethH]

The article is silly. Yes there is a problem with the HDMI output but there is no truth to the rest of the stuff.

Blu-ray and HD-DVD are native 1080P, so the 1080P output will just output 1080P if that is enabled.

Sony's player is not based on the Samsung. Some of the components may be similar however.

There are lots of articles flying about which are HD-DVD biased and make silly comments or over exaggerate issues. If you read this or other forums the fanboy stuff is just getting silly! After Blu-rays launch I was starting to think HD-DVD is the better one now. However, I say shut up and wait six months and then see what happens as there is no point in arguing the points now.

[Spectre07]

I haven't read the article, but from RobDickinson's summary it doesn't put Blu Ray in a bad light. If Samsung's player was launched too early and not ready it suggest's the hardware is at fault rather than the format. I've always said you can't write-off BR on the basis of 1st generation hardware launches and this is even more true when you have hardware launched by second division manufacturers like Samsung. When one of the main japanese manufacturers have launched a BR player, I think we'll be able to better judge the relative merits of BR and HD DVD.

[thescrounger]

I've always said you can't write-off BR on the basis of 1st generation hardware launches and this is even more true when you have hardware launched by second division manufacturers like Samsung.

But:

Sony's 1st player was based on this samsung device

[Spectre07]

But:

Sony's 1st player was based on this samsung device so will be delayed also.

[thescrounger]

Yeah, just curious about your 'second division' manufacturer comment. There isn't really a first division is there?

[Spectre07]

When it comes to consumer electronics, in my book Japanese manufacturers like Sony, Pioneer, Toshiba are division 1 and Korean LG Samsung div. 2. Some of the high end manufacturers like Denon, Marantz, Arcam etc I'd put in the premiere league.

[thescrounger]

Samsung is undoubtably one of the big boys now.

[RobDickinson]

Blu-ray and HD-DVD are native 1080P, so the 1080P output will just output 1080P if that is enabled.

Sony's player is not based on the Samsung. Some of the components may be similar however.

as there is no point in arguing the points now.

1st the broadcom chip the samsung player uses to decode the disk can only output 1080i. Doesnt matter one bit what the disks are encoded in if the decoder is maxed at 1080i.

2nd they use a built in upscaler to switch that 1080i to 1080p, just like ANY 1080p native rez TV will do with any input, but probably better.

"A few calls later and Samsung engineers determined that the noise-reduction circuit in the player's Genesis scaler chip was enabled, causing the picture to soften significantly. "

Why is it enabled, why will it take 3 + months to disable in firmware, why are some disks good and some bad? Why are there comperssion artifacts when the 'problem' has nothing to do with compression?

This doesnt realy add up - and yes theres points to argue now, BR is late to market and expensive, and now they've burnt the early adopters who usualy make a format work. This DOES put bluray in a bad light, and doesnt do much for Samsungs stock either.

I dont realy care which format 'wins' so long as one does , and crushes the other, HD-DVD certainly looks miles ahead so far.

[GarethH]

When it comes to consumer electronics, in my book Japanese manufacturers like Sony, Pioneer, Toshiba are division 1 and Korean LG Samsung div. 2. Some of the high end manufacturers like Denon, Marantz, Arcam etc I'd put in the premiere league.

Toshiba's products have been awful the last couple of years. I remember when their DVD Players were some of the best. Now they are just awful!

Don't get me started on Sony. Sony's products are pretty awful too, their reliability is shoddy. I only bought a Sony HD camcorder because they seem to tbe the only decent HD ones out.

I'd call Pioneer a Premiere brand (though they have lowered their standards a bit), they have some excellent high end models. I'd certainly agree with you on the Denon side too!

[RobDickinson]

Panasonic, Pioneer, Denon, Yamaha in their (av) area are brands I like thesedays.

Tosh seem to have done an astounding job with that HD-DVD player though, so good it may be scaring off competition for a while (especialy at the price).

Samsung may be a large volume manufacturer and have fingers in lots of pies (even make their own plasma panels right?) but I dont think they ever make anything as good as any of the competition can.

[mikeyace]

I seem to recall acres of samsung DVD players going back to woolworths and the like cos they were pants ;) ... got stuck on the matrix special features and things like that... didn't really harm DVD as a format. :suspect:

The biggest issue to me here is convincing the already digitally equipped suburbia that it's worth going for. The mass market.

DVD over VHS was easy, sure, but this is a little more subjective in terms of the "benefit" a consumer in "semi-2.4kids and a mondeo" land will receive. :thinking:

I know it's a better picture, but until the costs come down, it doesn't matter, cos it's not sooooo much better as to make you get a big, that should have been BIG ;) , loan out. I agree with the "wait 6 months" comments. You will see in this time a Christmas price war, Santa will have delivered some HD stuff and who knows - even a couple of PS3's may have been sold :lol: . After that, the market will have to stimulate demand, without the driver of the world cup or christmas... what ele is there? Price? Choice? We'll see...
I for one will be more interested in around may/June next year.... when I've got the spare money. :)
Mikey :)

[neilalford]

I seem to recall acres of samsung DVD players going back to woolworths and the like cos they were pants ;) ... got stuck on the matrix special features and things like that... didn't really harm DVD as a format. :suspect:

True, but there wasn't a competing format to DVD (well, except for DIVX but that was pretty much a flop from day 1 and never released over here), certainly seems that Blu-Ray have really shot themselves in the foot with the release one way and another and they're going to have a pretty tricky catch up job to do.

[Boink!]

I think the biggest take up will be when (and some company will do it) dual format next gen players come out. Until then, the vast majority of DVD owners won't understand what all the fuss is about.

[Spectre07]

Until then, the vast majority of DVD owners won't understand what all the fuss is about.Why should dual format next gen players suddenly make them more enlightened?