View Full Version : [Rant]Forget about DOGS! What is it with signing on TV shows?
Fatbloke
19-07-2006, 19:18
I'd like to ask whether anyone else is annoyed by all the signed programs that we see on TV now? It's not that I begrudge HOH people from enjoying the TV program, far from it. What gets me is why TV companies insist on using a signer?
I realise that in the new digital age, the ability to press 888 on teletext has gone, but why use a signer as opposed to putting text over the bottom of the screen?
I have Tivo, that quite often records a late night version of a program to allow another prog to be recorded in the early slot. So I seem to catch quite a few programs in the 'signing zone'.
Initially, I was annoyed at the BBC for skewing their picture to get the signer in at the side of the screen. It seems you need to see the whole top half of the signer, so they take up quite a bit of room. Plus make the picture smaller (pity the people with bad eyesight). But this is nothing compared to Sky...
I'm halfway through watching a late showing of Deadwood. They are showing the picture full frame (no shrinking) but have the signer plonked a third of the way in from the right of the screen (so he's viewable on 4:3 TVs I guess).
This guy is half the height of the screen and is not only distracting but often sitting right over a characters face so you can't see what's going on behind him!!
They don't even try to decrease his opacity so you can see through him.
<sigh>
Surely more HOH people can read than can sign? If so, why not just put subtitles at the bottom of the screen. Or better still, use their wonderful digital services to allow the HOH options to be switchable - there must be the technology allow this. Is signing superior to subtitles in some way (allows emphasis perhaps??).
[/rant]
thescrounger
19-07-2006, 19:46
I agree, and I'm not sure why all of a sudden we have gotton signing overload now.
It's political correctness gone mad! :D
But slightly seriously what's with all the signing on the music channels? :nuts:
I can just imagine deaf people up and down the country getting on down to da bangin' toons by going all 'Children of a Lesser God' and hugging the telly speakers!
Are there any deaf forum members around who have an opinion on the signing of the music channels?
Anyhoo I can't see why the red button technology can't be employed for signing in exactly the same way that graphical elements are overlaid on-screen for 'sing-along' versions of movies at Christmas. They could call it 'sign-along' via the red button!
pompeyfan
19-07-2006, 20:12
It's political correctness gone mad! :D
But slightly seriously what's with all the signing on the music channels? :nuts:
I can just imagine deaf people up and down the country getting on down to da bangin' toons by going all 'Children of a Lesser God' and hugging the telly speakers!
Are there any deaf forum members around who have an opinion on the signing of the music channels?
Wast just going to bring that up when I saw the thread title - saw a signer on Kerrang TV one night. I suppose there'd be a market for signing heavy metal for all those who stood too close to the speakers at a motorhead gig.
I realise that in the new digital age, the ability to press 888 on teletext has gone, but why use a signer as opposed to putting text over the bottom of the screen?
Wait, don't most digital channels have a subtitle option? My freeview box does, I was watching Airplane earlier with subs for a while because the GF was on the phone.
According to my girlfriend, who is a signer, sign-language does convey far more emotion and tone than subtitles, and can be used by some mentally disabled people who cannot read.
dannywonderful
19-07-2006, 21:34
If you watched Deadwood with a signer in the corner can you please tell me what the sign for "cocksucker" looked like?
I know what you mean .... these deaf people are taking the mick aren't they!!! Who the hell do they think they are wanting something from television and then getting it on 0.0000001% of OUR television programmes!!
:oh-hum:
Oh for god's sake lighten up! :oh-hum:
Oh for god's sake lighten up! :oh-hum:
And why exactly should I "Lighten up"?
This guy is half the height of the screen and is not only distracting but often sitting right over a characters face so you can't see what's going on behind him!!
Sounds like a normal episode of Deadwood to me
And why exactly should I "Lighten up"?
Because the sudden proliferation of signing on tv programmes across various networks and time slots and the questioning of why it is done in the way it is when there is technology available to easily imbed it into the 'red dot' stream is a perfectly valid observation to make and discuss.
No one is suggesting that "these deaf people" are "taking the mick" so get over yourself. I'm all for signing, I think it's a great tool along with subtitles to expand the reach of television but I see no reason why (like subtitles) it can't be optional in the digital tv age. In fact if I was in charge I'd make it mandatory to subtitle, sign and audio describe every (pre-recorded) programme but I'd use the technology available to ensure that all viewers are catered for.
Because the sudden proliferation of signing on tv programmes across various networks and time slots and the questioning of why it is done in the way it is when there is technology available to easily imbed it into the 'red dot' stream is a perfectly valid observation to make and discuss.
No one is suggesting that "these deaf people" are "taking the mick" so get over yourself. I'm all for signing, I think it's a great tool along with subtitles to expand the reach of television but I see no reason why (like subtitles) it can't be optional in the digital tv age.
Firstly it is not something that can be "easily" implemented in the red dot stream - do you know how it works?, if it was that easy then it would be done already would it not?
And if someone wants a service that is obviously wanted and given to a someone hard of hearing taken off air then, even though sarcastically put, my original post stands!
If you believe your opinion is directed to the television channel then so be it, but this is not like an unnecessary situation like DOGS but a great service for people who need it, produced on an absolute minimal amount of programs. Lets just hope we never need it, Richie??
Firstly it is not something that can be "easily" implemented in the red dot stream - do you know how it works?, if it was that easy then it would be done already would it not?
Funnily enough yes I do know how it works. Cost and a 'standard' are the main issues at present.
Have a read of Access Services for Digital Television (http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/papers/pdffiles/ibc00net.pdf) (the section on signing). There is even a graphical example of how it works at the end.
Fatbloke
20-07-2006, 05:03
Sounds like a normal episode of Deadwood to me
:lol: :notworthy
Seriously - if someone can argue why it's done this way then fair enough. It's just that you'd have thought that it would be possible to do it other ways with our current digital setup.
GoblinUK
20-07-2006, 08:38
Its actually Ofcom who set the percentage of programmes to be signed...its nothing to do with the indivdual channels.
I work for a company that does a lot of access services (i work in audio description, myself). Ill try and find out why the lovely signers can be switched off and ill get back to you.
Nick dVl
20-07-2006, 14:30
I remember being particularly miffed at watching The Dead Zone on C5 with a pesky signer pasted over it. What angered me even more was that the signer was only on the Freeview version, not on analogue! And since my analogue reception for C5 is less than perfect, not widescreen, and not hooked to my TiVo, I simply gave up watching the show. :(
cheeseypuffs
20-07-2006, 15:11
If you watched Deadwood with a signer in the corner can you please tell me what the sign for "cocksucker" looked like?
:lol:
nwgarratt
20-07-2006, 16:05
I remember being particularly miffed at watching The Dead Zone on C5 with a pesky signer pasted over it. What angered me even more was that the signer was only on the Freeview version, not on analogue! And since my analogue reception for C5 is less than perfect, not widescreen, and not hooked to my TiVo, I simply gave up watching the show. :(
I thought the same. They showed it cut at 8pm with no signing. There was compaints and they showed it again from the beginning uncut. However, it was put on around midnight and with signing.
I gave up after a few episodes and bought the DVD's instead. I am now a seson in front of what they showed. It looks like they have cancelled it on five after the third season.
The ITC have set targets for signing as a percentage of the output for a station, it used to be 1% and I think it's heading to 5%. Most channels fulfil this obligation by doing it more on the freeview version than analogue broadcast, plus signing late night programmes. Unfortunately for people who want/need signing, they get no choice of programmes or time that they might want signed, no doubt explaining why 'Kerrang' was signed. I would guess that a channel looks at the lowest viewing figures and signs that programme instead of making a better informed choice on what might meet the needs of the target group.
GoblinUK
20-07-2006, 20:49
. I would guess that a channel looks at the lowest viewing figures and signs that programme instead of making a better informed choice on what might meet the needs of the target group.
This isnt true. They will deliberately pick programmes that would appeal to a range of audiences or to the deaf and hard of hearing community. Life on Mars was signed recently, Soundproff was signed. Childrens programmes will be signed. Its certainly not a case that they pick programmes with the lowest figures.
apologies-I should have said 'some channels'. BBC seems to put a lot more effort in.
neilalford
21-07-2006, 07:53
If you watched Deadwood with a signer in the corner can you please tell me what the sign for "cocksucker" looked like?
Started playing a signed episode of QI last night that my TiVo had recorded overnight, the schedule was obviously wrong as the recording had started part way through the show, so it came on just as a slightly frumpy, middle-aged women was signing "Have you seen my massive black cock?" which amused me no end, probably would have been even funnier if I could read sign language.
LeftHandedGuitarist
22-07-2006, 20:32
Why doesn't Sky Digital have a subtitle button on their remotes? I hate having to trawl through menus just to turn the subtitle option on, then through them again to turn them off.
My grandparent's Freeview remote had a button for it and I was well jealous!
good, one more reason for me to watch less tv.
Esteban - CotS
22-07-2006, 20:49
Why doesn't Sky Digital have a subtitle button on their remotes? I hate having to trawl through menus just to turn the subtitle option on, then through them again to turn them off.
press the 'help' button.
brings up the option to turn subtitles and/or audio descriptive on and off.
fattyboombatty
24-07-2006, 00:43
has anyone noticed the "random signer" who just appears from nowhere halfway through a show?
the sooner they make this thing optional the better.
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