A World Cup "what if?" pondering...

[Remains]

Was discussing this with a few friends after tonight's matches...

Looking at England's league, it would be quite feasible to see Sweden and Trinidad ending up on the same points, and same goal difference. If England beat Sweden 2-0 and Trinidad beat Paraguay 1-0 then that will give them same GD, same GA and same GF.

If this was the case, how would they be separated for second place?

Would it go down to yellow and/or red cards or would they need to play some sort of play-off?

[Alan b]

Would it go down to yellow and/or red cards

It would have to be down to the number of cards wouldn't it as I wouldn't have thought they would be able to arrange an extra game in time. If the cards are the same then I guess it might be a toss of the coin ??

[welshmatt]

I not sure about cards but 'drawing lots' out of a hat is an option some point down the line. Last (and only) time I can recall it happening was the 1990 World Cup when Rep Ireland and Holland were level on all counts. But in that case both teams were through anyway and the lots decided who went through in second and who went through in third.

[Dan]

The ranking of each team in each group will be determined as follows:

a) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches;
b) goal difference in all group matches;
c) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches.

If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria, their rankings will be determined as follows:

d) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between the teams concerned;
e) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the teams concerned;
f) greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the teams concerned;
g) drawing of lots by the Organising Committee for the FIFA World Cup™.

The two teams coming first and second in each group qualify for the second round.

From http://eur.i1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/i/eu/fifa/regen.pdf

[Remains]

Good clarification there Dan, nice one!

So by that standing, it would go down to drawing lots, since Sweden and Trinidad's 0-0 draw resulted in same points (d), same GD (e) and same GF (f).

Drawing lots would be quite a cruel way to be knocked out mind!

[jan08]

I may be talking rubbish here, but did Republic of Ireland get through past Holland in our group in 1990 by drawing lots?
Edit - Yes, I really am that sad http://web.ukonline.co.uk/ic.ic/worldcup90a.html

[welshmatt]

Im sure both teams finished level, but in those days the top 2 teams went through plus the best 2 best 3rd placed teams. As I alluded previously, Holland and Ireland were both gauranteed to got through and drawing lots decided their final positions in the group.


edit: actually Rep Ireland were drawn 2nd:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Cup_1990

:lol: Its not that sad, it was the 1st world cup I remember and thanks to the massive Brian Clough sticker collection I was a total Statto! :thumbs:

[jan08]

You're right. Holland lost to Germany in the next round. phew, glad that got cleared up. btw I wonder if everyone remembers their first World Cup by their sticker collection. My Panini mexico 86 is a thing of real beauty ;)

[D J Fryer]

Ditto jan08 - Mexico '86 and the mascot Piqué - mine has no doubt been thrown away by my folks - I remember tearing the Argentina page after a certain match - right through Maradonna :D and then botch stapling it back together ! IIRC Iraq and Iran had a single page each next to each other with those dodgy 'two-players to a sticker' stickers.

In fact I remember '86 better than any of the WC's since! "Josimar, Josimar....................GOOOOOOOAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL........."

[jan08]

Check ebay mate, you cost yourself up to £300 with that rip through little Diego.

[D J Fryer]

I was 10 and angry :lol:

[gZa]

IIRC Iraq and Iran had a single page each next to each other with those dodgy 'two-players to a sticker' stickers.I remember them differently... :suspect:

http://www.cityonfire.com/gZa/panini2.jpg

[Baz]

In fact I remember '86 better than any of the WC's since! "Josimar, Josimar....................GOOOOOOOAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL........."

Me too, it was a fabulous tournament that one, Vasily Rats anyone?

[rawowl]

The sames Vasily Rats who scored the winner against the Tounement winners Holland in the 1988 Euro's ?

[Baz]

The sames Vasily Rats who scored the winner against the Tounement winners Holland in the 1988 Euro's ?

Oh I didnt realise that, but he hit a screamer in the 86 finals I still remember.

[AdamBrunt]

The ranking of each team in each group will be determined as follows:

a) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches;
b) goal difference in all group matches;
c) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches.

If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria, their rankings will be determined as follows:

d) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between the teams concerned;
e) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the teams concerned;
f) greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the teams concerned;
g) drawing of lots by the Organising Committee for the FIFA World Cup™.

The two teams coming first and second in each group qualify for the second round.

From http://eur.i1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/i/eu/fifa/regen.pdf

Which bizarrely contradicts what it says here (http://www.fifa.com/documents/static/regulations/WC06-English.pdf)

Though they did say during the Argentina game that the rules had changed this year so that overall GD came first ??