What's the deal with lots of phone buying?

[cybergen]

I'm being very nosy here but where I live lots of guys are buying shed loads of phones - 100s a month - and making a mint by selling them somewhere - nt ebay and not to individuals but somewhere! Someone else say it's a vat scam they are running and others that they are exporting the phones.

Anyone heaard of these happenings? (I know Im being very nosy! :n0rty: )

[pjg]

There was a story in the papers last week saying that a lot of the phones stolen in the UK end up in Africa where there is a lot of demand for them. Maybe it is something like that?

[DM]

Links? ;)

[Rollo_Tomassi]

Yeah, those Africans have got money to burn, I hear they pay double the retail price over there.

:D

[t@xman]

I'm being very nosy here but where I live lots of guys are buying shed loads of phones - 100s a month - and making a mint by selling them somewhere - nt ebay and not to individuals but somewhere! Someone else say it's a vat scam they are running and others that they are exporting the phones.

Anyone heaard of these happenings? (I know Im being very nosy! )

Who would that be? : :?:

[pjg]

Links? ;)

Here is the story that was on the bbc (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4977898.stm) website a few weeks ago

[Cockeye]

When I lived out in Qatar, Dubai was the center of mobile phone business. HTC were based there, and we used to get new phones way before everyone else. I remember getting the Nokia 7610, having it for about three months then came over here and tried to use it on my English Vodaphone SIM to find that I just couldn't use all the multimedia features.

I mention this, because that BBC article mentions that Dubai is a center for stolen phones. I find that very hard to believe, as over there there is no such thing as a free phone.

You have to purchase every phone you want at full RRP. The rich majority buy a new one every few months, and there is a thriving second hand market meaning that everyone can afford to buy one.

Ghana I can believe, but not Dubai surely?

[Vulcan101]

It's called Carousel fraud.

http://www.out-law.com/page-5320

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/07/28/fraud_cases_up_financial_losses/

Basically you create a company and buy goods VAT free and then sell them and claim the VAT back. The newest wrinkle is you create a number of dummy companies and keep circulating the same goods (could be cameras, phones, CD's, DVD's basically anything which is VATable) between a number of companies (which you control) claiming the VAT back multiple times, you can make oodles of cash and then disappear. The clever ones do the same thing but the goods either may not exist in the first place, or they get sold somewhere and then the paperwork is fiddled so it just shows them to have been sold on. It's now being used by organised crime as a way to launder cash or to drum up seed money for drug/arms deals etc.

This one is really clever, but is costing the UK Billions of pounds in lost revenue.

[Ali X]

i know a few ppl that do vat scams and have made a killing, 21- 25 year olds driving merc SL500s, range rover vogues etc and have a crappy phone shop which has a few customers a day !

[aahbarnes]

It's called Carousel fraud.

http://www.out-law.com/page-5320

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/07/28/fraud_cases_up_financial_losses/

Basically you create a company and buy goods VAT free and then sell them and claim the VAT back.

The VAT isn't claimed back, it just isn't paid to the IR in the first place.

[mattymoo]

i know a few ppl that do vat scams and have made a killing, 21- 25 year olds driving merc SL500s, range rover vogues etc and have a crappy phone shop which has a few customers a day !

If you suspect a retailer, or any individual, of selling goods they’ve imported without paying tax, you can report them by phoning the Customs Confidential hotline, 0800 595 000, open 24 hours, seven days a week.

From http://www.direct.gov.uk/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/Taxes/ContactOrDealWithTheInlandRevenue/ContactOrDealWithIrArticles/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=10010579&chk=KPU9JS

Doesn't make any mention of a reward though :(

[Harsin]

Where's our resident Argos fetishist when you need him, he'd be able to answer this.

[cybergen]

From http://www.direct.gov.uk/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/Taxes/ContactOrDealWithTheInlandRevenue/ContactOrDealWithIrArticles/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=10010579&chk=KPU9JS

Doesn't make any mention of a reward though :(

If you suspect a retailer, or any individual, of selling goods they’ve imported without paying tax, you can report them by phoning the Customs Confidential hotline, 0800 595 000, open 24 hours, seven days a week.

The person who I know doesn't buy from outside the Uk, he buys from all the retail stores :?:

[simion_levi]

The person who I know doesn't buy from outside the Uk, he buys from all the retail stores :?:


He's probably just box breaking. Nothing illegal to it, you buy umpteen PAYG mobile phones, unlock and then sell on as SIM free. Whilst it won't get you a big profit in this country (usually), some are worth significantly more abroad. I imagine he's just found a wholesaler who takes the handsets off him for a good price.

Note that;

a) Despite being legal to buy PAYG handsets and split from the SIM card, the SP's do not like it as they won't see any revenue from call usage. Some retailers thus require registration of SIM card or prevent you from buying more than a couple of handsets at a time/per year etc. To get round this, I've heard stories of people employing gangs of runts to run around the shops buying up the handsets for them in exchange for cash or, more likely, 3ltr bottles of White Lightning. Ask your pal how many 'employees' he has :lol:

b) Mobile phone unlocking is legal, but cannot be discussed here

c) Process itself isn't illegal, but I'm sure most people doing it don't declare income - which is.

[t@xman]

The VAT isn't claimed back, it just isn't paid to the IR in the first place.
Actually, they do both.

[BigPappa]

VAT Fraud - because VAT is so high it creates an incentive to defraud.

Its an easy 17.5% - I am defrauded everytime I pay it!