View Full Version : Doctor Who: Series 2: Episode 1 (New Earth)
gjkendall
15-04-2006, 19:07
What a load of rubbish!
With that first post I see this thread going great places...
At least Billie looked quite nice... :n0rty:
Steve Jackson
15-04-2006, 19:10
That was plop. Next week's look much better though.
jediross
15-04-2006, 19:10
Great constructive first post.
But Billie was indeed very hot!!! :D
gjkendall
15-04-2006, 19:10
What a load of rubbish!
i have been looking forward to this for ages....
rubbish story, dodgy acting (the new doctor is good though)...
crapper than crap gags...."chav" sheesh please!
next episode looks as if it is going to be good though!
Never really liked that Cassandra character from the first series...and as for Chip :nuts:
Seemed like a rip off of Resident Evil, Romero, and Carry on Camping!
Not the greatest of Alien nasties I'll give you that.
However, at the start I did feel the new Doctor fitted into the role very well.
Perhaps a more more monsters and special effects.
The "Quality" seemed pretty good to me, if not the actual content perhaps.
With that first post I see this thread going great places...
:D
It wasn't all that bad for an opening episode although I have to be honest and say that I was really watching it that much.
Would help if the title of the episode was given properly - I am sure there was a space in there somewhere.
It did have one of my bug bears of sci-fi where the author/creator will arbitrarily bung some huge future date on and then still have everyone wandering around like it's 25 years in the future. Although if you wanted to cut this some slack you could claim they were all going retro out of nostalgia.
Wee Stinky Balloons
15-04-2006, 19:14
Am I the only one who thought this was good, i quite enjoyed it. "that was enigmatic, textbook enigmatic" :lol:
gjkendall
15-04-2006, 19:14
Would help if the title of the episode was given properly - I am sure there was a space in there somewhere.
:dork: I've changed the title now! ;)
Very underwhelmed by the opening episode..........
Billie trying to be (more) sexy with a posh accent, to and fro genderising and a script that tried too hard to be "relevent" rather than concentrating on a good dramatic story.
Mind you, I'd just watched part 1 of Genesis before tuning in.... but "I'm a Chav" :shrug:
Blloyd
rbullivant
15-04-2006, 19:16
Not the best episode but it is great to have the series back, DT is looking like he'll be an excellent doctor, better than CE!
Billie Piper is looking good!
I think this Face of Bo message thing might be this series Bad Wolf
Rik
I'm glad they found the time for another Jackie/Mickey farewell scene as the previous five didn't quite get the point across. :D
It was OK, but a pretty much forgettable episode really.
tecnobabble
15-04-2006, 19:22
I liked it, thought it had its moments, can hardly wait til next week 4/5 from me!
AndyWilson
15-04-2006, 19:23
The fun thing watching Dr Who nowadays is trying to spot the things that people will criticise on the internet :D
El Gigante
15-04-2006, 19:24
Loads of rubbish I though, but I concur with the comments that Billie looked hot, yum!
Funniest bit was when she mentioned she is now from some skin from her back:
Billie: Oh right, so you're talking out of your ....
Casandra: Assk not! :lol:
splobber
15-04-2006, 19:24
Bit poo but the heaving breasts made up for it.
fivebyfive
15-04-2006, 19:38
it was ok (still better than all the depressing crime drama BBC1 and ITV pump out)
Billle looked very nice :n0rty:
From next week's epsiode clip:
looks like the writer(s) have been watching "Brotherhood of the wolf" film, not sure if that's good :thinking:
Bit poo but the heaving breasts made up for it.
From a purely female perspective, yeh ok Billie, to give her credit, looked good & I also think she did a good acting job of it, although i'd have liked to have seen her being Rose more & some 'new doctor' interaction.
As for Tennant, yes he's a very good actor, but i'm yet to feel the warmth, it may just be that we have to get used to a new personality but, oh boy, was there tons of personality missing compared to Eccleston
The story, I liked the New(*etc) New York business at the start but.. i dunno, I was left with no opinion, make of that what you will :)
I'm glad it's back and I did enjoy this episode and I'm still smiling, although I do miss Simon Pegg, but Saturday evening TV has just got a whole lot better again!
Well, I thoroughly enjoyed it! :)
Loved the body swap humour personally and fleshing out (ahem!) Cassandra's character was really good and you know what, rather touching I thought.
And phwoor, David Tennant is lip-smackingly yummy! :p
SqueakyG
15-04-2006, 19:49
Ahh, a new series of Doctor Who; which means a new series of Saturday DVDF threads where grown adult men moan about a children's programme not entertaining them sufficiently.
I thought this was up to standard. Disease zombies are an interesting idea (when I heard the explanation, "They're just reaching out for human contact, they've never been touched," I thought, "Now you know how I feel!"). Billie did some pretty good acting - I was convinced Zoe Wanamaker was inside her. Cat makeups were good. Cityscape was good. Everything else was a bit cheap and peurile - but that's RTD Doctor Who for you.
Spooksta
15-04-2006, 19:51
Didnt do it for me sadly
3/10 worst New New Who yet
I still have hope for the new Dr..... I see the big face thing started off the Season 2 story arc...
Billy looked lovely :thumbs:
thescrounger
15-04-2006, 20:03
Probably the weakest episode yet. A bit of a let down, a poor episode to start on. I just hope the public tune back in next week.
Billie trying to be (more) sexy with a posh accent
Buh? Did you listen to any of the story at all?
It was great. Witty script, nice action, some really touching scenes (the Face of Boe and the end especially).
horrible special effects, time to put the ram pack on the zx81 they use for the cgi.
achookang
15-04-2006, 20:17
Ahh, a new series of Doctor Who; which means a new series of Saturday DVDF threads where grown adult men moan about a children's programme not entertaining them sufficiently.
Yes! Glad someone said it! ;)
My quick summary: not bad as a season starter, effects crap in a Dr Who sort of way (just like the old days, except with dodgy CGI instead of dodgy cardboard sets!) but that's part of the charm!
Good acting by Billie Piper, not bad from DT but could tone it down a notch or two.
Managed to rip off both The Matrix and generic zombie movies in one go, not bad.
Also if you really want to be adult about it, made a commentary (briefly) on the use of clones/experimental subjects/animals (choose your own interpretation) for medical research)
The cat nurse nuns were surprisingly believable!
Good lines "Oh my god, I'm a chav!" etc etc.
The previews for the rest of the series look good tho'
:clap:
thescrounger
15-04-2006, 20:18
Star Wars Revelations had better special effects.
It was okay, about the same as the last opening episode (remember the wheelie bin everyone?).
it was still 'fun' which is all I ever wanted it to be.
capricorn1
15-04-2006, 20:27
My 5 year old sat on my lap watching it and he didn't say a word throughout! I think any other parents will agree that getting a 5 year to sit quietly for 45 minutes is a miracle!
It's great to have a TV show back that we can both get in to and enjoy together - he can't wait for K9, I can't wait for the Cybermen!
Spooksta
15-04-2006, 20:43
It was okay, about the same as the last opening episode (remember the wheelie bin everyone?).
That episode had an excuse (1st new who in years) this does not....
I'm just kind of surprised there aren't more posts comparing Tennant to Ecclestone, or vice versa, or were minds made up during the Christmas ep? Or don't you care? ;)
I enjoyed it. I can't believe how harsh some of the comments on here are: remember this is Doctor Who we're talking about! This is exactly the sort of episode I'd expect from RTD: Nothing earth-shatteringly brilliant but it still contains enough entertaining bits to make it enjoyable. The cgi was the usual mixed bag, the acting was pretty good, and I'm sure the disease zombies were suitably terrifying for younger viewers :)
I much preferred this ep to the first of last season. A welcome return to Saturday nights for The Doctor.
BTW - did anyone else totally forget to tape Doctor Who Confidential afterwards? It's repeated tomorrow if so :)
alphatyrant
15-04-2006, 21:04
Dr. Who is supposed to be cheesy and camp, otherwise it wouldn't be Dr. Who!
Much cleavage and general heaving of bosom......which was nice. Looking forward to hearing David speaking with his true accent next week.
Cybermen!! Balls to your Daleks, these were the best villlains.....oh and Peter Kay in Ep.10 good stuff.
thescrounger
15-04-2006, 21:19
This would have been a much better second or third ep, as some of the slapstick would work better when the audience is back in the swing of things. Next weeks is meant to be RTDs darkest script yet.
it was crap but David Tennant makes a much better Dr Who than Mr Eccleston ever did.
gjkendall
15-04-2006, 21:26
Dr. Who is supposed to be cheesy and camp, otherwise it wouldn't be Dr. Who!
Much cleavage and general heaving of bosom......which was nice. Looking forward to hearing David speaking with his true accent next week.
Cybermen!! Balls to your Daleks, these were the best villlains.....oh and Peter Kay in Ep.10 good stuff.
Cheesy and camp is fine...but the episode IMHO tried to cover all bases and failed...the story was trying to make a point which was ruined by all the "titter ye not" humour...all the body swapping was pointless! It would of been better if a reincarnation of Charles Hawltrey popped up and say "ooooh helllo"!
Dr Derek Doctors
15-04-2006, 21:33
Hmm, overall it didn't really wow me but then I wasn't looking forward to this episode especially (apart from in that it signified the start of a new series of Who). I was surprised how iffy the integration of the CGI was (the city in the background was great but the back and forth traffic was bad, as was the shadowing) considering how good it looks in the clips for the rest of the series.
thescrounger
15-04-2006, 21:33
it was crap but David Tennant makes a much better Dr Who than Mr Eccleston ever did.
Funny, cause I still prefer Eccleston. Damn shame he didn't stay on.
andybhoy
15-04-2006, 21:36
The main problem with the episode was the ridiculous "They have every disease in the world" and the doctor curing them.
I still enjoyed it but I expect to find that RTD's episodes are far poorer the the rest, just as we did last year.
The pacing of this episode was all over the place for me, started strongly and quite fast paced and just got slower and slower then sped up again. Probably not the best episode to start off the new run with, would have been better somewhere in the middle. Next weeks looks good though and I agree that the Face of Bo secret could be this years Bad Wolf.
thescrounger
15-04-2006, 21:48
The face of Boe secret was originally in this script, but held back for later.
Ahh, a new series of Doctor Who; which means a new series of Saturday DVDF threads where grown adult men moan about a children's programme not entertaining them sufficiently.
I thought this was up to standard. Disease zombies are an interesting idea (when I heard the explanation, "They're just reaching out for human contact, they've never been touched," I thought, "Now you know how I feel!"). Billie did some pretty good acting - I was convinced Zoe Wanamaker was inside her. Cat makeups were good. Cityscape was good. Everything else was a bit cheap and peurile - but that's RTD Doctor Who for you.
Well it's a family show really, but fair point. :D
Personally I loved every minute.
After some of the, well, shakey Russel T. Davis scripts last year (not counting the finale, that was fab) was a bit hesitant going in, but left mighty impressed. Agree about Ms Piper, equalling Zoe Wannamaker's no mean feat, and she did with style. Great action, but made much more than a fluff show by weaving in a theme about accepting the inevitability of death, letting them end on a surprisingly poignant note.
Tennant really impressed there, he held it together while Cassandra shoots between bodies faster than Rooney does debts, and handled the grisly hospital revelation with intensity that didn't slip into Shatner-onics.
And ol' Boe finally speaks! "Textbook enigmatic." :lol: Looks like an interesting arc's being set up.
So a solid 7/10 overall.
Next week:-
Werewolves, the Queen Vic and Kung-Fu monks. Huzzah!
Chief Brody
15-04-2006, 22:08
I guess i'll do rolling marks for the new series again like last year. I liked the Doctor's 'if you're looking for as higher authority, there isn't one' line and Rose comparing Cassandra's minion to Gollum, and the lift-shaft ride was fun. It only disappoints when you consider the highs of 'Dalek', 'Empty/Dances' and 'Bad Wolf/POTW', but it's better than most of the first half of the previous series. And the episodes to come will be much, much better.
THE CHRISTMAS INVASION 8/10
NEW EARTH 7/10
Well, I liked it - saw not much wrong with it (although didn't like the end with the cure and everyone passing it on).
Writer watched Futurama? 'New New York'?! ;) I even thought the Duke of NY looked a bit like Hedonism Bot!!! :lol:
Call me shallow, but other than Billy's bouncing bosom, this was pants. Sooner the Cybermen reappear, the better.
Did anyone else think that the music was too loud in parts (like in the christmas invasion)?
corkbouy
15-04-2006, 23:06
I never thought i'd say this, but sometimes nerds need to lighten up.
I thought it was a good, entertaining and fun episode. What more do you want?
I think some of you have forgotten just how poor some of last season's episodes were!
I thought this was an excellent start.
I thought it was ok and no worse than some of last seasons. Next weeks looks better though.
nwgarratt
15-04-2006, 23:34
I thought it was a very good episode but I miss Eccleston as I prefer him so far.
Well 2 things...
1: My kids (7 and 12) and my neice and nephew (2 and 7) loved it
2: I saw Tooth and Claw last week in Glasgow and it is brilliant!
And I agree, it is a bit pathetic grown men moaning about how a kids show isn't entertaining enough...
Just because it has the production values of a typical CBBC kids show, doesn't mean it's a kids-show .... it's shown at 7:15pm in the evening & has Billy Piper cleavage throughout ..... if it's meant for kids, then shame on the BBC! :p
TheCookieMonster
16-04-2006, 00:23
Absolute rubbish, just had a cheap and nasty look to the whole episode, whoever lighted and directed this should be shot, they really need some of the guys from Spooks or Hustle in to show how to make a good looking English programme. The whole chav thing was appalling, and it'll age even worse :help:
I wasn't a fan of the last series but actually enjoyed this series opener.... :shrug:
The whole thing was good fun. However is it just me or did anyone else notice it was ruined by the loud music and quiet talking.
Much of the time I could hardly hear what was being said.
Wasn't the worst thing I've ever seen on telly... But not really that good. Next week looks great tho. Just a shame that no-one apart from Billie (who was pretty great) got to stretch their acting muscles this week.
Quick edit to add: The music did seem a tad too loud this week
Grandmaster
16-04-2006, 06:42
Ahh, a new series of Doctor Who; which means a new series of Saturday DVDF threads where grown adult men moan about a children's programme not entertaining them sufficiently.
How many times have you seen Blue Peter or any other Children's programme air at 7:15pm on a Saturday night? This whole "it's for kids therefore you are not allowed an opinion" line of rubbish is exactly how George Lucas justified three weak Star Wars movies and is just as inappropriate here.
Both are aimed at a general family audience and the timeslot of Doctor Who (as well as the fact it's made by the drama division of the BBC) reflects that.
Perhaps when Doctor Who airs on CBBC this comment might be more appropriate.
i wasn't impressed by tennants eyeball popping shouting routines. he looked a bit naff.
Dr Derek Doctors
16-04-2006, 08:59
The whole thing was good fun. However is it just me or did anyone else notice it was ruined by the loud music and quiet talking.
Much of the time I could hardly hear what was being said.
Yup, me too. The balance seemed WAY off for much of the show.
El Gigante
16-04-2006, 09:04
Is it just me or does anyone else think the stupid messages by the computer are ridiculous and would never be programmed in in real life?
From 1x02 - "Security glass repaired, Security glass repaired, Security glass repaired" - yeah, thanks love, couldn't have repaired it beforehand, no?
And yesterdays - "All cats will present themselves for arrest, all mutants will be catalogued and set free, all visitors must make a statement, blah blah blah". Seriously, that's just a very very poor way of letting the viewer know what's going on
puddleduck
16-04-2006, 09:09
Jesus - that was shockingly bad!
When I was a kid I used to hide behind the sofa, last night I was cringing behind it!
British television - The finest in the world :thumbs:
(that was the first time I've turned on my telly since the Christmas Special, so the name Doctor Who still has a special lure for me, but its not Who as I know it)
Have to say I did fell a bit let down by it. Then again I do not expect an absolute classic every episode for a season of Who.
As others have said it was a long way away from the highs of last year (Empty Child/Doctor Dances, Dalek, Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways), but was as good as the average ones - Boom Town, The Long Game. The only thing is those two at least seamed to have some sort of point Boom Town on how the Doctor never wants to stay around to see the consequences of his actions, The Long Game that not everybody can be a good companion to the Doctor. This one just did not seam to add anything with the Face of Boe secret being moved to Season 3.
My 5 year old sat on my lap watching it and he didn't say a word throughout! I think any other parents will agree that getting a 5 year to sit quietly for 45 minutes is a miracle!
It's great to have a TV show back that we can both get in to and enjoy together - he can't wait for K9, I can't wait for the Cybermen!
I watched it with my wife & two children (girl 7, boy 5) & all of us sat there watching it. We all laughed in places, the kids hid behind cushions & gasped when the infected people were after the Doctor & Rose & both put down there cushions with big smiles on there faces when the Doctor saved the day. Putting my geekey :dork: adult opinion to one side, as a family drama this episode more than delivered, & hit its target full on.
Found this review from the Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguide/columnists/story/0,,1753166,00.html) & I think it sums it up nicely.
Charlie Brooker's Screen burn
Charlie Brooker
Saturday April 15, 2006
The Guardian
Terrible thing, anticipation. For instance, if I locked you in a room and calmly informed you through a hatch in the door that I planned to return in an unspecified period of time and beat you insensible with a car jack, chances are you wouldn't enjoy the intervening hours very much, even if I'd left you a couple of magazines and some battenberg cake. The anticipation of what was to come would cast too much of a pall. You wouldn't even notice the lovely vase of daffodils I'd thoughtfully placed on the table, would you? You self-obsessed *******.
Of course, sometimes anticipation works in your favour the other way round. When I was young, I remember being told that Morons From Outer Space was the worst film ever made. When I subsequently went to see it at the cinema, my expectations were so low, I practically tripped over them on the way to my seat. By the time it had finished, I was convinced it was a work of comic genius. I'd had my filter adjusted to the point where I would've been impressed by anything other than a blank screen and an atonal whistle.
All of which brings me to Doctor Who (Sat, 7.15pm, BBC1) - specifically, to episode one of the new series. Now, I've been effusive in my admiration of last year's series - effusive to the point of fellatio, you might say, if it were possible to fellate a television programme, which it isn't, not unless you take a printout of the scripts, furl them into a tube and mimic a blowjob on them, although the weirdness of your actions tends to overshadow your implied praise when you do something like that. Anyway, my anticipation gland was bursting as I settled down to watch the series opener - so you can guess what's coming next. It left me a bit ... well, a bit down.
For starters, there's a bit too much going on given the 45-minute running time: the plot revolves around shadowy goings-on in an intergalactic hospital, but there's also a lot of messing about with supporting characters who feel superfluous to the main storyline, diffusing your attention. It also makes a few jarring tonal shifts - leaping from high camp, to straight horror, to oleaginous sentimentality without warning. And David Tennant, trying to keep up with this, occasionally just ends up popping his eyes and shouting too much.
What I'm saying is it's a jumbled let-down. See what I'm doing here? I'm lowering your expectations. Not because I'm trying to trick you, but because I didn't think it was very good. And I bloody love Doctor Who. Sorry.
If I sound uncharacteristically mealy-mouthed in my criticism, it's because having a pop at Doctor Who actually pains me. In my head, it's come to represent everything that made Britain great - more so than, say, the foundation of the National Health Service. Or Marmite. Or the Sex Pistols. This means I'm mentally ill, obviously - but nonetheless, its 21st century reinvention has been a joy to behold, so when it farts out a bit of a dud, I'm not merely disappointed, I'm crushed - even though, at its very very worst, it's still 10,000 times better than 98% of the rest of the joyless Formica drizzleplop you get on the box.
But hey. Carping over. Now for the good news. All of this - the rush of anticipation, the slow guff of disappointment - all of this is all entirely in keeping with last year's premiere episode, which was also an overexcited manic sprawl of a thing, but turned out to be merely the slightly misfired opening salvo in a dazzlingly brilliant fun-for-all-the-family romp. And if NEXT week's episode is anything to go by, this year's going to be similar. Because next week's episode (also scripted by Russell T Davies) involves a much-publicised encounter with a werewolf guaranteed to make easily-spooked kiddy viewers crap their own spines through their bumholes. It's flipping great (as are Tennant and Piper).
In summary, then, your instructions are as follows: watch with a forgiving eye, because the predictive chart I'm preparing indicates a steep upturn in quality from hereon in. Hooray and phew for that.
When New Earth is repeated on BBC3 today there will be an interactive option of watching it with a commentary by David Tennant and executive producer Russell T Davies. Sadly it does not look like you can Sky+ the episode with the commentary on (if someone can prove me wrong PLEASE do so!), however it is also on the Doctor Who website as an MP3 track
They also have the next instalment of the TARDISODES "mini episodes featuring "Tooth and Claw"
Just go to the Doctor Who website (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/) for both of these
EDIT - We just watched the Tooth & Claw TARDISODE, & I think we are going to need bigger cushions next week :D
Spooksta
16-04-2006, 09:26
I never thought i'd say this, but sometimes nerds need to lighten up.
I thought it was a good, entertaining and fun episode. What more do you want?
Less of your lip :p
Panavision
16-04-2006, 09:31
I liked it but RTD seems to be a flippant writer. That four-legged spider was straight out of Minority Report! I enjoyed the body swap -- that was the best bit. Not a bad start but the RTD episodes are not good. The other writers do a much better job.
capricorn1
16-04-2006, 09:34
We just watched the Tooth & Claw TARDISODE, & I think we are going to need bigger cushions next week :D
Strangely enough my boy keeps asking me when he can watch 'the werewolf' one and if I'll watch it with him! I think there's a mixture of fear and anticipation building up already, perhaps I'll also need to get some of those bigger cushions! :thumbs:
If he enjoys it I'll put Dog Soldiers on for him! :nuts: :lol:
irascian
16-04-2006, 10:06
Was going to miss this because I had a dinner. The dinner got cancelled.
Unfortunately.
Comments about it being aimed at kids are ridiculous. Endless trailers have been shown for it past 10pm. Anyone can make CBBC-oriented TV. This show has a much bigger budget and audience than that and this is all over the media as "one to watch". It was really really dire!
Mainly because it was a "typical" RTD episode: Lay the "pink" message on with a trowel - check ("stem cell research is bad, people"), put in "pop culture" references that date the episode badly even at the time of transmission and make the plot even more unbelievable (chavs this time) - check. Over-ambitious CGI work that isn't needed and just draws attention to the fact that it's bad CGI - check.
Trying desperately hard to find something positive to say about it: The make-up was good. The "why you little" morphing into "bit rich saying" was clever writing. Billie is still great and Tenant was OK (although so far I prefer Ecclestone). And I've just saved myself £9.99 by cancelling my pre-order for the vanilla DVD as it's pointless wasting money on a "clearly aimed at five year olds and five year olds only" TV series. A friend at the Beeb tells me the "Torchwood" scripts are much better - adult-oriented and the best sci fi/horror the BBC has ever done. I sincerely hope so because one of Sci Fi's strongest series in the world has turned into a complete and utter farce. And most of it's down to the appallingly poor scripts that RTD turns in as his contribution to the franchise.
EDITED TO ADD: My mother was over for Easter and watched it with me (just as she did when as a family we all watched it during the Hartnell/Troughton era). She's never really been a fan and thought last night's episode was "a load of old rubbish" with the only other comment being "They do seem to like Billie Piper's breasts don't they!"
I didn't mind the dodgy CGI, I didn't mind the acting, the sets or the cheesy one-liners. But I wasn't too impressed with the story - which should be of prime importance! So all it took to cure a vast horde of "zombies" with every illness was a load of coloured liquids sprayed onto a few of them? Hmmm... I know the science always was a bit shaky, but this was stretching things a little bit too far for me! I'd have preferred a simple polarity reversing.
Grandmaster
16-04-2006, 11:08
The whole resolution of curing the zombies completely by jumping into a lift with 5-6 bags of coloured liquid was perhaps the most dire ending to any episode of Doctor Who ever, as was the mystifying transformation of Cassandra hopping from body to body desperate to stay alive and then suddenly giving up and wanting to die for no apparent reason.
No way was this even as good as The Long Game and/or Boomtown.
cliff homewood
16-04-2006, 12:01
I also was well disappointed, charlier brooker seems to sum up the eexperience best. Did think the effects and make up department did an excellent job though and were only let down by a weak script from RTD which should not have been a season opener. SHould be an episode with some pull for that and would have been better off second which would have people willing to give it a little lee way if theyd seen an excellent ep the week before. Doesn't help that he is repeating himself already as we had zomble like people last year in the superb Mark Gatiss script. Its funny that in someways RTD is such a shallow writer, but in others eg, how the companion leaves pain behind by ging off with the doctor he has deepened the series.
The whole resolution of curing the zombies completely by jumping into a lift with 5-6 bags of coloured liquid was perhaps the most dire ending to any episode of Doctor Who ever.
Don't forget they were intravenous bags of drugs. I'm sure all those poor sods hooked up to drips in hospitals will be glad to hear they only needed to tip them over their heads in the first place.
thelocalman
16-04-2006, 12:45
Did nobody spot the bad wolf ref? I quite liked it but not the strongest, then again, Ep1 Rose never was the best.
i probably have missed part of the plot. why did they need to keep thousands of experiment subjects when they had a known cure for all diseases already made?
The Bear
16-04-2006, 13:25
It was fairly average with some very poor plot points.
'Chav' aside (Good God why?!), the curing of the zombies was very poor and twee, and Cassandra suddenly giving up and allowing herself to die was just completely out of character. Why didn't she realise that when she went back to the party and saw herself she had the unique opportunity to transfer herself back to her old body?? It's the first thing I thought of when it happened.
I have to admit I did like David Tennant much much more than Eccleston. His acting was much better and much more intense in the scenes where it needed it. The comparison has been made that the production values are like a CBBC project. I agree, it does compare suprisingly closely in feel and writing style, apart from the obvious extra budget on make-up, but Eccleston also shares this comparison too I feel. He is a classic top-notch CBBC grade drama actor, whereas Tennent can elevate his performance above everyone else on the show. All IMO though.
I just hope the next episode is abit more intelligent in how it handles the plot.
mnementh
16-04-2006, 14:14
I enjoyed it - suitably silly in places. Thought it was a nice light opener before an obviously very dark next ep.
Just watched Tardisode 2 - off to change my pants.
The Bear
16-04-2006, 15:01
It says a lot about the British public that the quote "I'm a Chav!" is the top of the mobile download list on the BBC's DW site.
:oh-hum:
thescrounger
16-04-2006, 15:03
i wasn't impressed by tennants eyeball popping shouting routines. he looked a bit naff.
He was a bit rubbish it must be said. His best bits were talking to The Face Of Boe.
Doctor-Lite probably best describes his incarnation. Next week we get to try and understand him, as he gets to use his native scots sccent.
Andrew WK
16-04-2006, 15:47
Doctor Who attracts eight million
Billie Piper and David Tennant made their comeback on Saturday
David Tennant's return as Doctor Who topped Saturday night's TV ratings, with eight million viewers, unofficial overnight figures show.
Ratings for the sci-fi drama peaked at the end of show, with 8.3 million tuned in to see Tennant as the Time Lord and Billie Piper as his assistant Rose.
ITV1 countered with Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, which pulled in an average of five million viewers.
But the film did beat the BBC's other Saturday night hit, as Strictly Dance Fever attracted just 3.8 million people, as well as Channel 4's Deal or No Deal, with 2.9 million viewers.
A BBC spokesperson said Doctor Who had got off to "brilliant start", adding: "We are really thrilled."
The overnight figures do not include those who recorded programmes to watch later.
Tennant will be seen facing villains including the Cybermen and a character played by comedian Peter Kay.
He replaced Christopher Eccleston, who launched the BBC's revival of the series last year.
Porsmond
16-04-2006, 16:51
I thought it was'nt a bad episode to start off with personally. Tennant has certaintly put all my fears of him being the new doctor at ease, I think he really fits into the role, and pulls it off nicely.
The Story of the episode was'nt the best was it, but then you tend to have a few duff storylines like this, and some mostly good ones, so they tend to even out through the series. Next week's episode looks fantastic
So just an OK from me on the first episode, I look forward to next week
I dunno if anyone else noticed, but the apparent "behind the scenes" of the Cat Hospital (well, it was) was the same place as in the first episode with that fire thing under london.
Re-use set a go go!
moviesuk
16-04-2006, 17:13
Not a great first episode really.... but next weeks defo looks like a good en :)
Panavision
16-04-2006, 17:19
RTD didn't seem to bothered about plot holes when a mate asked him about it. I don't he actually gets it :(
Dr Derek Doctors
16-04-2006, 17:26
I don't he actually gets it :(
There's a hole in your sentance. ;)
Poor episode I thought - just didn't seem like Doctor Who to me, and certainly not an episode strong enough to open a new series!!
Much prefer Eccleston to Tennant it must be said... Chris had more depth to him I think.. I like Tennant as an actor, but is he Doctor Who? Not yet in my view.
Other eps look stronger though... surely RTD is better at getting writers who understand Who better than he does!!
And the comment of that 'it's mainly for kids' does not account for such poor writing in my opinion... classic Who went out earlier in the 70's and produced numerous classic stories that appealed to both audiences. I really hope tat was was just a blip... and we get back to stories that are about Doctor Who... not Rose (as good as Piper was... this show is called DW for a reason!).
gareth101
16-04-2006, 18:00
Very poor, switched off b4 end.
DarkAvenger
16-04-2006, 18:06
Great episode last night. Not the best for sure but a much stronger season opener than "Rose" last year. Tennant is by far a better Doctor than Christopher Eccleston was, and what is all this crap about not understanding him. I understood every single word of dialogue he uttered. I do think the story suffered somewhat by having to pack in so much into 45 minutes, but overall a very promising start to the new series.
Like a lot of people..didn't think this was great...my kids enjoyed it but werehoping the cats were eating people, they thought the 'secret' was a bit of a let down.
Back in 'the long game', wasn't there a headline that The Face of Boe (Bo?) was pregnant?
And is the ego thing going to be a theme? "There is no higher authority", and "I'm the docyer I cured them"...?
mikef
Usual first episode of a new series syndrome with every one raising their expectations far too high for an episode that is always going to be scene setting and trying to pack too much in whilst trying too hard to open with a bang. I thought it was ok and I'm looking forward to the rest of the series. "Oooh... curves!"
Let's face it, Dr. Who is now mostly mindless crap aimed at the retards that are the Joe Public of modern Britain. When you compare it with some of the storylines of the 1980s you really see what a pale shadow it is of its former self. Kids programme or not, it used to be a hell of a lot better written than this crap.
I was at a wedding yesterday and missed this. Unfortunately it was repeated.
Dire episode with only a few decent moments. Last season fluctuated between great and terrible on a weekly basis. After the Christmas special I was hoping that the quality control would be much better this year, but looks like that isn't the case :(
I hate how they began the season with a retcon - especially seeing as they ended the episode by going back to Cassandra being dead like she was in the first place.
Let's face it, Dr. Who is now mostly mindless crap aimed at the retards that are the Joe Public of modern Britain.
We all bow down to your superiority oh great one. :notworthy
:|
SqueakyG
16-04-2006, 19:46
whoever lighted and directed this should be shot
Yes. The director should be murdered. Those of us who didn't like the episode should contribute some money to hire a hitman, who will shoot the director through the head and end his life. Because he didn't direct a piece of mindless entertainment to your liking. Of course.
How many times have you seen Blue Peter or any other Children's programme air at 7:15pm on a Saturday night?
Perhaps when Doctor Who airs on CBBC this comment might be more appropriate.
A Doctor Who hype program does air on CBBC.
Doctor Who was always aimed more at youngsters than adults. If you're in the 20-30 age group (as I believe most DVDF people are), you haven't seen Doctor Who since you were a kid. Admiration for previous incarnations of the show is nostalgia. The best posts on this forum are from parents who report the utter delight of their children when watching.
How you come to terms with Doctor Who looking like a CBBC show is up to you. You could rightfully complain that you are not being catered for as part of the "family" audience. But then again, you've had a full series last year to assess your feelings on the matter. Last year was the time to discuss, assess, and make peace with the fact that RTD's Doctor Who looks like a CBBC show. Why are we still complaining this year?
Bloody hell calm down people! How come all the other TV threads are so much more civil.
The Bear
16-04-2006, 19:51
Cassandra suddenly giving up and allowing herself to die was just completely out of character. Why didn't she realise that when she went back to the party and saw herself she had the unique opportunity to transfer herself back to her old body??
Anyone got any thoughts on this?
Anyone got any thoughts on this?
Nah, surely that would create a paradox. She would jump into her old self and then not lead the life she had done so she would not be in a position to jump into her old self in the first place. :shrug:
She could have jumped into any one of several other people though.
the doctor was probably hanging around watching to make sure this didn't happen.
Anyone got any thoughts on this?
I had an inkling that Cassandra already created a paradox by simply visiting herself - the 'young' Cassandra showed concern for the dying person, which may change her outlook and future actions?
Good episode, bit clunky in bits, some iffy cgi (but then how quickly do we forget some of the dire episodes and dreadful effects in classic Who!!) thought the IV bags would be a lot more advanced 5 billion years later, but solid enough start. Tennant starting to grow on me, and Billie Piper just gets better and better. :thumbs:
Won't be going anywhere else on Saturday evening. :)
As for Doctor Who being a kids show, I can't remember the last kids-only show that had so many jokes about sex, sexuality and chavs. Just because a show is made to cater for a family audience doesn't make it off-limits to criticism - Pixar's movies for example are kid's films, but they're also appreciated by a great number of adults. Kids are generally just easier pleased than adults, not that that's a good thing as only the truly great shows and movies build nostalgia. I know there's alot of stuff I loved as a kid that I cringe at looking back.
I had an inkling that Cassandra already created a paradox by simply visiting herself - the 'young' Cassandra showed concern for the dying person, which may change her outlook and future actions?
Won't be going anywhere else on Saturday evening. :)
Unless it was this incident that persuaded her that she was the ulimate beauty and so caused her to live the life she did?
I liked it, sorry, but there we go.
Dr Who is back, a prime time sci-fi programme, getting 8 million viewers and people are still complaining its 'not as good as it was' or something.
Unless it was this incident that persuaded her that she was the ulimate beauty and so caused her to live the life she did?
Indeed, aren't paradoxes great? :lol:
Indeed, aren't paradoxes great? :lol:
:lol:
Bloody hell calm down people! How come all the other TV threads are so much more civil.
You know what it is like, mention the words 'Doctor' and 'Who' and ordinary descent folk go crazy :suspect:
8 million watched it in on Saturday-oops sorry mentioned earlier.
Fred2002
16-04-2006, 22:05
Well I like it. Ok it was not the best episode thus far (being an RTD scipt I was not holding my hopes up high anyway!) but I thought it was a lot better than the quite frankly boring mess that was the Christmas Invasion.
Next week looks a cracker, I thought the best episodes of season 1 were the 'period' episodes which of course are non RTD episodes.
As long as that annoying brief bit at the beggining was the only appearance we ever see of Roses mother and the annoying Mickey the Thickey in this series then hopefully all should be all right!
cliff homewood
16-04-2006, 22:36
on the cassandra paradox, I assume this means that the blinovitch limitation factor (that you cant touch yourself, last year in fathers day for instance) is only limited to your own body and if your bodysurfing in someone else like Cassandra was its fine.
Or as has been said RTD writes crap scripts: he seems more like a child in his writing ie thats cool, other than objectively analysing it and making things a logical progression. ie writing proper science fiction other than this show with chances to meet famous people and monsters in it.
Andrew WK
16-04-2006, 22:56
As long as that annoying brief bit at the beggining was the only appearance we ever see of Roses mother and the annoying Mickey the Thickey in this series then hopefully all should be all right!
Someone's gonna be very disappointed then!
I thought it was a good episode, comfortably better than 'Rose'. David Tennant will be one of the best Doctor's (possibly the best) and Billie Piper was fantastic.
Hell of a lot of nitpicking going on here, didn't see much to complain about with the CGI, it was superior to a lot of last year's.
Won't be the best episode of the season and it won't be the worst.
7/10.
on the cassandra paradox, I assume this means that the blinovitch limitation factor (that you cant touch yourself, last year in fathers day for instance) is only limited to your own body and if your bodysurfing in someone else like Cassandra was its fine.
The first law of time states that no individual is allowed to meet themselves, as that would constitute a temporal paradox and would almost certainly change history. Basically, the law insists that time-streams must be kept linear. :nono:
Cassandra has interacted with herself , ooh err, and changed her own future.
She was aided and abetted by the Doctor who is usually very strict about such things. :eek:
The second law of time complements the first by stating that no-one is allowed to interfere with their own personal time line (i.e. history). This law has also been broken.
If Cassandra created her own character by going back and telling herself she was beautiful it was a predestination paradox.
The Blinovitch Limitation Effect merely stops people repeatedly going back in time to try to change it. It was mentioned by the Doctor in Day of the Daleks but never properly explained.
OMG. I've turned into a geek. :eek:
sparkyrob
16-04-2006, 23:25
This episode had lots to like, and lots to bury in a deep pit and cover with cement.
Liked:
- Tennant's acting with the Face of Boe and Cassandra at the end.
- The whole scene with Cassandra at the end, in fact. I thought it was extremely emotive and very well done.
- Billie's acting has improved a lot.
- Good special effects, great make-up and sets.
Disliked:
- The majority of the crappy plot. Apparently, in the future intravenous drugs will work by just rubbing them on your hand. :shrug:
- Tennant's acting when a) shouting a lot (seemed to me like he was trying unsuccessfully to emulate Ecclestone. Which is a shame, since he does everything else a lot better) and b) camping it up as Cassandra. Wow, that made me cringe.
- Some god-awful dialogue including some jokes that worked, and a lot that seemed forced.
A shame, since I thought the Christmas Invasion was fantastic. I'm sure it'll improve next week. Although why Mickey couldn't have died after being eaten by the wheelie bin at the start of the last series is beyond me...that's one character I'd be more than happy to see the back of.
LooNaTiK
17-04-2006, 00:35
The first law of time states that no individual is allowed to meet themselves, as that would constitute a temporal paradox and would almost certainly change history. Basically, the law insists that time-streams must be kept linear. :nono:
Cassandra has interacted with herself , ooh err, and changed her own future.
She was aided and abetted by the Doctor who is usually very strict about such things. :eek:
The second law of time complements the first by stating that no-one is allowed to interfere with their own personal time line (i.e. history). This law has also been broken.
If Cassandra created her own character by going back and telling herself she was beautiful it was a predestination paradox.
The Blinovitch Limitation Effect merely stops people repeatedly going back in time to try to change it. It was mentioned by the Doctor in Day of the Daleks but never properly explained.
OMG. I've turned into a geek. :eek:
it creates a paradox, but earlier on in the episode she says that that particular night was the last time anyone told her she was beautiful... so technically, the docotor was destined to take her back there so she could say that to herself.
i think
it's just a TV show after all, and i enjoyed it. some funny moments, tongue in cheek, and a lot of cleavage. :thumbs:
LooN
thescrounger
17-04-2006, 00:39
The first law of time states that no individual is allowed to meet themselves, as that would constitute a temporal paradox and would almost certainly change history. Basically, the law insists that time-streams must be kept linear. :nono:
Cassandra has interacted with herself , ooh err, and changed her own future.
She was aided and abetted by the Doctor who is usually very strict about such things. :eek:
The second law of time complements the first by stating that no-one is allowed to interfere with their own personal time line (i.e. history). This law has also been broken.
Erm. :suspect: :dork:
Technically Cassandra was in the body of somebody else at the end, so it didn't matter.
Cassandra has interacted with herself , ooh err, and changed her own future.
She was aided and abetted by the Doctor who is usually very strict about such things.
Not in last seasons 'Fathers Day' he wasn't.
cliff homewood
17-04-2006, 01:05
I mentioned fathers day because of the scene where she goes to hold herself as a baby and the doctor yells 'Rose No!', that I thought was the blinovitch limitation effect (also shown in Mawdryn Undead when the brigadier goes to touch himself (oo-er!)) But in this episode Cassandra holds her dying self in her arms and nothing is made of it.
Sorry everybody but we seem to have got our 'geek' on!
And whilst I'm geeking I thought the episode was a tired collection of old ideas from tomb of the cybermen to revelation of the daleks (the human twist and disease (dnoe better in Revelation with the meeting of the mutant at the beginning)) and as someone else aptly put it the hackneyed boy-swapping plot. And wasn't the false cockney cringeworthy?
I think one of the reasons I wasnt overly enamoured by it was that I had so many of its secrets revealed by the tabloids.
We liked it, My kids think its great, and thats some of the target audience happy! Its certainly 1000 times better than most of the rubbish that passes for entertainment on tv nowadays.
In twenty years time youll all watch it on hi ray hi def dvd with great fondness.
jeffstarr
17-04-2006, 10:26
On a related note, I couldn't get the red-button commentary to work on Sunday's repeat. Did anyone else have any joy?
thescrounger
17-04-2006, 10:45
I couldn't be arsed, but apparently you can just download it from the BBC site.
thescrounger
17-04-2006, 10:46
I mentioned fathers day because of the scene where she goes to hold herself as a baby and the doctor yells 'Rose No!', that I thought was the blinovitch limitation effect (also shown in Mawdryn Undead when the brigadier goes to touch himself (oo-er!)) But in this episode Cassandra holds her dying self in her arms and nothing is made of it.
Sorry everybody but we seem to have got our 'geek' on!
.
Yes but as I pointed out, Cassandra was in a different body at the end. That's why the Doctor is able to meet and great his former selves.
Erm. :suspect: :dork:
Technically Cassandra was in the body of somebody else at the end, so it didn't matter.
Not in last seasons 'Fathers Day' he wasn't.
Rule 2 was broken even if an infraction of rule 1 is up for discussion . And 2 wrongs dont make a right. :)
thescrounger
17-04-2006, 11:03
Rule 2 was broken even if an infraction of rule 1 is up for discussion . And 2 wrongs dont make a right. :)
It doesn't matter, she was in a different body, which is also why the Doctor can fondle his former selves.
It doesn't matter, she was in a different body, which is also why the Doctor can fondle his former selves.The second law of time states that no-one is allowed to interfere with their own personal time line (i.e. history). Where does a body come into it either way? :shrug:
Your fixated man. Fixated. By bodies. :suspect:
The way I saw the Casandra thing was that when she was watching the film of her old self, she told Rose that this was the last time someone told her she was beautiful.
When the Doctor took her back she actually told herself she was beautiful. The Cassandra of the time was then touched by a dieing man choosing to say how beautiful she was with his dieing breath & this caused her to always try & be beautiful & turned her in to what she become. Rather like the events in the Back to the Future & Terminator films.
The body she touched was not her body, but just a body occupied by her & the original owner, just like when she was in Rose’s & the Doctor’s. So technically she just touched a body that happened to contain her but was not her.
Anyway there be a lot better Who than this one to ponder over, so I don’t think its worth spending to much time on.
mattbrat
17-04-2006, 12:14
Did nobody spot the bad wolf ref? I quite liked it but not the strongest, then again, Ep1 Rose never was the best.
There was a bad wolf ref?
neilalford
17-04-2006, 12:18
Don't have an awful lot to add that hasn't been said before, fairly mediocre episode that suffered the same way that nearly all the RTD scripted episodes have, pushing an agenda with very little subtlety, out of place pop culture references that will date horribly and a fairly dodgy resolution to the plot. Had it's moments but I still think (like I did through series one) that RTD should really step back from the writing and concentrate on the production side more.
Next weeks does look good though, but obviously trailers aren't always an accurate reflection of the episode. Wouldn't be suprised to see the Doctor saving the day by throwing a stick!
DarkAvenger
17-04-2006, 12:38
Originally posted by DamienB
Let's face it, Dr. Who is now mostly mindless crap aimed at the retards that are the Joe Public of modern Britain.
I think this statement says a lot more about you than it does about the people who watch Doctor Who. Resorting to insults, hmm, that is really going to make people sit up and take notice of you.
SithLordSi
17-04-2006, 12:39
I had a different take on the ending. I thought that Cassandra had always been told she was beautiful by people around her, at parties and such, but had never truly believed it. The need to surround herself with fawning, sycophantic suitors could be taken as proof of a deep, life-long insecurity. It was because of this insecurity that she wanted to live forever - to be the last pure-blood human, and therefore feel justifiably superior.
At the end, when she was genuinely told how beautiful she was, I thought it was probably the first time she had taken such a compliment seriously. You could see from her look of surprise and deep gratitude, that she felt sincerely wanted for the first time in her adult life. I saw that moment as the redemption of the character.
Overall, though, I hated the episode.
I guess its been discussed before, but isn't this whole 'single episodes, loosely connected' format out of place now? Most of the new TV shows seem to be in totally-connected-episode series (Lost, Invasion, 24 etc.), perhaps its time for Doctor Who to go back to the five episode serials - these have the advantage of a few good cliff hangers, enough time to build up a proper plot, but still chance to resolve it before half the audience get bored (see Lost).
Otherwise we are stuck with Doctor and Rose arrive, meet some characters, discover that 'something is wrong', quick reference to other episode, work out what is wrong, get put in danger, escape danger, save the day/world, quick moral message, leave, teaser for next week.... every single time, which does get a little dull.
SithLordSi
17-04-2006, 12:49
Glad I'm in the other half, then. I'd much rather watch a poor episode of Lost than the last episode of Doctor Who. ;)
That said, I still enjoy The Doctor's adventures - but only when they are written by someone other than Russel T. Davies. :gag:
LiviLion
17-04-2006, 13:35
I guess its been discussed before, but isn't this whole 'single episodes, loosely connected' format out of place now? Most of the new TV shows seem to be in totally-connected-episode series (Lost, Invasion, 24 etc.), perhaps its time for Doctor Who to go back to the five episode serials - these have the advantage of a few good cliff hangers, enough time to build up a proper plot, but still chance to resolve it before half the audience get bored (see Lost).
Otherwise we are stuck with Doctor and Rose arrive, meet some characters, discover that 'something is wrong', quick reference to other episode, work out what is wrong, get put in danger, escape danger, save the day/world, quick moral message, leave, teaser for next week.... every single time, which does get a little dull.
Good point.
One's that spring to mind for me are:
The Five Doctors (my all time favourite - Davison was my Doctor).
Remembrance of the Daleks
Tomb of the Cybermen.
They could have quite easily expanded the final two episodes of series 1 into four or even five and built the plots up much more.
Probably says more for the TV generation these days. Could the majority of Saturday primetime viewers sit through a five parter over five weeks any more? That type of schedule just doesn't seem to exist any more.
LL
cliff homewood
17-04-2006, 14:03
no all the series needs is what RTD tried and failed last year, a good arc plot to keep people watching. The face of boe is a good one set up at the moment, but with the most terrible grandfather paradox i've been witness to as the resolution of last years I worry whether this one will be the something special it need to be to justify all the expectation.
DeadWalk
17-04-2006, 15:49
On a related note, I couldn't get the red-button commentary to work on Sunday's repeat. Did anyone else have any joy?
Yes, I managed it but it took about a good 3 minutes or so to start working so missed the beginning of the commentary. It wasn't bad actually with some nice banter between the participants.
thescrounger
17-04-2006, 16:55
There was a bad wolf ref?
Not really, they just filmed it in the playground and it hadn't been fully removed from last years filming.
thescrounger
17-04-2006, 16:56
I guess its been discussed before, but isn't this whole 'single episodes, loosely connected' format out of place now?
I wouldn't say it was completely out of place, but I'd welcome more two and three parter episodes.
If anything 'New Earth' proved that there was far too much crammed into 45 minutes. They should have ditched the Cassandra plot completely and focused on building up the hospital story.
cliff homewood
17-04-2006, 17:42
there wasnt any story to build up that was the problem, it was just a 'hospital miraculously cvuring silly sounding diseases' and 'oh look they're using clones to do it' that was the story, making it a 2 parter wouldnt make it any better, probably worse with more room for more silly sounding diseases.
TigaSefi
17-04-2006, 20:44
I really wish Russ D wouldn't write scripts for Dr Who EVER EVER again. He had no sense of placement and pacing in his writing and it all too thin and flimsy in terms of explanations......
gareth101
17-04-2006, 20:45
Unlike some I though tthat the 1st series was overhyped. Yeah it was pretty good but not great. I realise though that many thought otherwise.
thescrounger
17-04-2006, 21:10
there wasnt any story to build up that was the problem, it was just a 'hospital miraculously cvuring silly sounding diseases' and 'oh look they're using clones to do it' that was the story, making it a 2 parter wouldnt make it any better, probably worse with more room for more silly sounding diseases.
Brilliant concept, not completely original, but how can you say there was nothing to build up? Pacing and atmosphere is everything, and would have made a world of difference to this.
thescrounger
17-04-2006, 21:12
I really wish Russ D wouldn't write scripts for Dr Who EVER EVER again. He had no sense of placement and pacing in his writing and it all too thin and flimsy in terms of explanations......
Well he's only writing 5 episodes this series. There're 8 episodes writen by other people.
TigaSefi
17-04-2006, 21:16
Well put it this way, i thought all the best episodes of Series 1 was when it wasn't written by Russ T Davies :)
Mainly because it was a "typical" RTD episode: Lay the "pink" message on with a trowel - check ("stem cell research is bad, people"),Interestingly, I didn't get that message at all. The ep had live humans kept alive and suffering to be used as test subjects; I thought that the controversy over stem cells was to do with interpretation of an embryo as a proper human life. Or do you just mean that RTD was suggesting that the episode's subjects were at the bottom of a slippery slope? And that we shouldn't embark on those lines of research at all?
(I don't know what a "pink" message is so I might be missing something anyway.)
I guess its been discussed before, but isn't this whole 'single episodes, loosely connected' format out of place now? Most of the new TV shows seem to be in totally-connected-episode series (Lost, Invasion, 24 etc.), perhaps its time for Doctor Who to go back to the five episode serials - these have the advantage of a few good cliff hangers, enough time to build up a proper plot, but still chance to resolve it before half the audience get bored (see Lost). I think that those shows are being very careful to tread a line between season arc and self-contained story. Each Lost episode holds a single flashback story; 24 usually has a single "mission" or something in one episode, all in service of the overall plot. (Even Babylon 5, with its five year story, told its tale with essentially self-contained episodes -- and no recaps either!) The problem with series which are entirely season-arc stories is that they require viewer dedication -- and if such viewers miss an episode they may skip the rest. Other viewers might not bother to watch, thinking it's too demanding.
So while the emphasis on a season arc is there in a lot of current shows (especially US dramas), individual (and occasional 2-part) stories are still where it's at. An overall story for the faithful is a bonus, and that's what RTD did last year with the Bad Wolf -- hopefully we'll get something similar this year.
thomasc1982
18-04-2006, 10:27
ANy thoughts on the commentary?
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/newearth-commentary.mp3
irascian
18-04-2006, 12:54
Interestingly, I didn't get that message at all. The ep had live humans kept alive and suffering to be used as test subjects; I thought that the controversy over stem cells was to do with interpretation of an embryo as a proper human life. Or do you just mean that RTD was suggesting that the episode's subjects were at the bottom of a slippery slope? And that we shouldn't embark on those lines of research at all?
(I don't know what a "pink" message is so I might be missing something anyway.)
"pink" equals slightly left of centre. So we had the initial stem cell reference (before we met the diseased subjects) and in the past we've had speeches about Weapons of Mass Destruction and the Iraq War, diversity is always good (single mums, inter-racial relationships and in the future people will be bisexual) etc etc. Nothing wrong it's just that the message is never subtle with RTD and way too often just gets in the way of the story. It's like he plans each episode with "What will my soapbox piece be this episode?". You can get the same arguments across in a much more subtle way.
My main objection to ALL of his episodes is that he doesn't understand how to scare kids which, for me, was what Doctor Who was about. Every time he gets anywhere close to having something scary he veers off with a "joke" that is never funny and comes up with endless implausible get outs that just smack of, as someone else here indicated, writing himself into a corner that he can't be bothered to write himself out of in any kind of a plausible way. RTD's doctor is invincible and there's never any perception he's in any kind of real danger because some stupid unbelievable plot twist will save the day (whether it's Cassandra flying into the body of her dying retainer instead of Rose, a gadget that miraculously appears, or just the decision that the doctor can magically walk through huge whirling fans by "concentrating").
"pink" equals slightly left of centre. So we had the initial stem cell reference (before we met the diseased subjects) and in the past we've had speeches about Weapons of Mass Destruction and the Iraq War, diversity is always good (single mums, inter-racial relationships and in the future people will be bisexual) etc etc. Nothing wrong it's just that the message is never subtle with RTD and way too often just gets in the way of the story. It's like he plans each episode with "What will my soapbox piece be this episode?". You can get the same arguments across in a much more subtle way.I see; thanks for explaining. I understand what you mean now, but I must say that I've never found the message to be obvious (and most of the time I've not even thought of there being a message at all... but maybe that just means I'm not paying attention).
cliff homewood
18-04-2006, 14:10
RTD reminds me of JNT who for years was always thought of Who's best and worst producer. FOr the record he started at the end of TOm Bakers run, and then he was the best, later on he wanted to leave but BBC Bosses wouldn't let him and he was with the series to the end, by which time he had become the worst producer.
RTD is doing it differently by being the best and worst all at the same time! In the commentary he reminded me of a luvvy, but the scariest thing is that he found the shower scene hilarious, this has me worried for his later 'comedy episode' with the Blue Peter winner, what are we to expect, pies in the face? And thanks to the person who spoilt the ending of Tooth and Claw by saying the Doctor will probably throw a stick, after beating the sycorax with a tangerine I can well believe it!
thescrounger
18-04-2006, 14:25
The BBC AI for the ep was 85%. Which was the highest rating for any programme that day.
pandaboy
18-04-2006, 15:39
a gadget that miraculously appears
Happens in just about every Pertwee story! :p
Ah Doctor Who, only Star Wars rivals it for people feeling personally slighted when they don't like it. ;)
For the record, I thought it was alright, nothing special, but certainly not offensive. Not the strongest of opening episodes, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. Much better episodes to come I imagine.
Loving Tennant though!
ph
thescrounger
18-04-2006, 16:17
I don't mind lapses in logic or plotholes, what I mind is **** poor jokes and camp humour.
"pink" equals slightly left of centre. So we had the initial stem cell reference (before we met the diseased subjects) and in the past we've had speeches about Weapons of Mass Destruction and the Iraq War, diversity is always good (single mums, inter-racial relationships and in the future people will be bisexual) etc etc. Nothing wrong it's just that the message is never subtle with RTD and way too often just gets in the way of the story. It's like he plans each episode with "What will my soapbox piece be this episode?". You can get the same arguments across in a much more subtle way.
Pit puzzled by this, left-wingers are generally the most supportive of stem-cell research & right-wingers, especially Bush's brand of fundie Christian, against it.
Didn't get that message at all BTW, just got your bog standard "ends don't justify means" & "don't play god, you silly blighters" sci-fi standbys, albeit done well.
So how many of us actually thought it was a good episode? Still safely in single figures? :D
Interesting nugget from the commentary, originally everyone died, but Davis changed it we it was pointed out Who was getting far too bleak. Sounds a better ending incidentally.
Next week's should probably settle this Davis crap/not crap debate for now. (One can but hope.)
JNT best producer? Not in my gaff he wasn't. Nothing he was involved in touches the work of Philip Hinchcliffe. But I digress...
Didn't reckon much to this episode but it's great having the series back again so I'll take the rough with the smooth.
andybhoy
18-04-2006, 19:58
Happens in just about every Pertwee story! :p
As long as the new doctor doesn't start doing dodgy kung fu, and reversing the polarity of the neutron flow every week, I'll be fairly happy.
thescrounger
18-04-2006, 20:17
If it was Jon doing it I wouldn't mind, he walks all over Tennants performance. Just a shame he's dead.
Rudolph Hucker
18-04-2006, 22:29
I won't slate it, as its better than most things on, and wouldn't want to risk the BBC seeing all this criticism and replacing it with some reality/makeover rubbish. Things i noticed, thought IV bags would be a little more advanced like someone else said, and he only poured a few into the lift, but there was a thousand diseases, hence he would need a thousand bags, or so i thought. The spiders were taken from the episode in S1 where the earth exploded, just before the time in this ep, it's either good continuity or some cheapskate not bothering to come up with a new idea. Not sure about Tennant yet, he slept through most of the xmas one which didn't help, i got used to Eccleston straight away, will see next week. Say 7/10, remembering some of the ideas churned out last year.
I thought the IV bags were a sort of generic treatment for many ills so maybe there are only a few needed to cure every disease, and maybe cures work like viruses?. The spider makes sense as this show is after the series 1 spiders, run by the same flat person. Have to remind myself it's SF so anything goes really! I think Tennant has a lot of potential, but early days. Looking forward to the Victorian werewolf episode!
Interesting commentary about the darker ending, also the patching up on the episode due to technical problems.
My main objection to ALL of his episodes is that he doesn't understand how to scare kids which, for me, was what Doctor Who was about. Every time he gets anywhere close to having something scary he veers off with a "joke"
Too true. My seven-year-old is enjoying Dr Who but looks puzzled if I ask if she is scared. "No Dad" is the reply with a further look of 'don't be silly'.
Best thing for me was ... NO Christopher GURNING Ecclestone.
nicknack
19-04-2006, 12:56
On hols in finland at the mo, but couldn't resist logging in to comment on ep 1.
OK episode - highlight was cassandra giving Rose a "cor" factor :n0rty:
Spooksta
19-04-2006, 18:34
Too true. My seven-year-old is enjoying Dr Who but looks puzzled if I ask if she is scared. "No Dad" is the reply with a further look of 'don't be silly'.
My 2 boys were slightly scared. They are 7 and 10...
JNT best producer? Not in my gaff he wasn't. Nothing he was involved in touches the work of Philip Hinchcliffe. But I digress...
Didn't reckon much to this episode but it's great having the series back again so I'll take the rough with the smooth.
JNT wasn't the best. He was *at* his best when he took over as producer in season 18, but IMO that's partly because the scripts etc had already been commissioned before he took over, Tom was still the Doctor and former Who producer Barry Letts was executive producer for that season, keeping a watchful eye on the proceedings.
Ahh I see. In that case, I agree.
thescrounger
19-04-2006, 23:09
I thought the IV bags were a sort of generic treatment for many ills so maybe there are only a few needed to cure every disease, and maybe cures work like viruses?..
That makes sense as the nurse refused to tell The Doctor what was inside them
Well this thread is on its 9th page now, with 163 posts & 4,867+ views.
The programme was aired 5 days ago & this is still getting a lot of hits.
Oh happy Who days!
Another Doctor Who magazine/comic
Anyway, get Doctor Who Monthly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_Magazine) ? :dork:
Get Doctor Who Adventures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_Adventures) comic? (for your young children of course!) :dork: :dork:
Well you might as well go the whole hog & get this as well then!
Doctor Who Battles in Time (http://www.battlesintime.com/index.php) :dork: :dork: :dork:
Its a 52 part, once a fortnight part work mag, that comes with a collectable card game.
Issue one costs £1.50 then £2.50 thereafter.
The only down side is that its only avalible in the Westcountry and Grampian TV regions for now, but if succsefull expect it to go national in a few months.
I think Im going to move to the West Country!
Blue Peter
Anybody see Blue Peter yesterday?
They showed you who to make your own TARDIS.
If you missed it here is a DIRECT LINK (http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbbc/bluepeter/content/articles/makes/2006/04/19/tardis_make.shtml) to the fact sheet.
Have to say I was not that impressed with there effort. You will be better of getting the TARDIS money box, or even the TARDIS Easter egg from M&S. I got one of these & have adapted it into a TARDIS play set for my son. Its not a bad scale to the figures too.
Totally Doctor Who BBC1 today @ 5pm
The second episode of Totally Doctor Who (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totally_Doctor_Who) is on BBC1 at 5pm tonight & this weeks special guest is the current Doctor himself David Tennant. It will have a behind the scenes look at New Earth & also a preview at Tooth and Claw.
Tooth & Claw BBC1 Saturday @ 7:15pm (MAYBE ON LATER DUE TO THE FOOTBALL)
The BBC Doctor Who website has now been updated to Tooth & Claw (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/) .
They have also put the trailer on line with the TARDISODE - DIRECT LINK (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/episodes/2006/toothandclaw.shtml)
Not surprisingly this episode has been given a "Fear Factor" rating of 5 (Terrifying)
Here is a run-down of there results:
TOOTH AND CLAW: Fear Factor 5 (Terrifying)
How scary is Doctor Who? Our brave Fear Forecasters present a minute-by-minute guide to Tooth and Claw.
Amy (5), Harry (7), Samuel (9), Adam (13)
(1) From the very beginning, this episode looks different. "It looks like 'Lord of the Rings'," says Adam. Harry is impressed.
(2) "Why won't they show us?" grumbles a frustrated Amy.
(4) Adam covers his face.
(9) As things begin to get scary, Harry adopts the foetal position.
(10) Big smiles...
(18) Adam and Samuel's eyes goggle.
(21) A big cheer from Samuel.
(24) Harry and Adam jump at a big scare!
(26) Harry's startled. Amy's playing it cool.
(29) Adam and Samuel stare open-mouthed.
(34) Everyone's in danger! And Harry has somehow managed to get his right knee in his mouth.
(40) Suddenly very serious.
(41) Gasps!
Remember that the BBC is showing the Liverpool v Chelsea cup game before it. If this goes to extra time (& even penalty's) it could be on between 7:45 & 8:15pm!
I would have started a new thread for the Tooth & Claw, but when I did that last week before it aired it got a load of anti Who posts got pulled off topic & ended up being closed.
I would have started a new thread for the Tooth & Claw, but when I did that last week before it aired it got a load of anti Who posts got pulled off topic & ended up being closed.
Read the T&C's... ;)
New doctor is def better than CE ( :gag: ) but it had a typical lame story. :dork:
Read the T&C's... ;)
Fully aware of the T&C's regarding this, that's why I took the time to e-mail a MOD about starting the thread & was told it was OK. Unfortunately other people just did not seam to take this in. The thread then got bogged down in T&C's & anti/pro Doctor Who arguments, went off topic & was closed
I hope this thread does now not get bogged down in T&C post's rather than Doctor Who ones & closed :(
I was not having a moan or a go at anyone & the way that that thread went I can fully appreciate why it was closed, just explaining why Tooth & Claw info was in this New Earth thread instead of one for its self. I especially wanted to give a heads up for those that will set there Sky+, TIVO or videos to recorded it as due to the football it could be on latter.
Anyway back on track, the new issue of Doctor Who Adventure comes with a free Slitheen Whopie Cushion :thumbs:
thescrounger
20-04-2006, 10:07
Episode threads usually get posted after the episode has aired.
You could have a general Doctor Who thread to discuss upcoming episodes and spoilers.
Finally got to see this this morning and to be honest it wasn't worth the effort. For me it was the worst episode since the show came back last year, even beating the christmas invasion which i thought was pretty poor. Unfortunately I thought David Tennant was awful, lacked presence and when questioned instead of being authoritive just shouted. Far far worse then Ecclestone who for me gets a really undue hard time on these forums. Shame really as I thought Tennant was going to be ok after seeing the children in need epsiode but after this one and the christmas invasion i'm having doubts about him.(though to be fair he's hardly in the xmas invasion so im being a bit harsh).
I thought billies acting was laughable this week but then I appear to be in the minority of one who thinks that shes an ok actress (and certainly better than i expected) but nothing special and certainly nothing better than any other companion thats gone before her (ok shes better then Mathew Waterhouse). The fact that she won awards last year for me just means the shows popular not that shes a great actress. (That also goes for a lot of other actors and TV shows that win awards not just Doctor Who - especially awards voted on by the viewers)
As an old fogie of 35 I still find the 45 minute one story per episode format rushed and miss the cliffhangers and while i admit that a lot of the 4 ,and most of the 6, parters in the old series had padding they at least gave the story time to develop whereas here its all rush rush rush, which i feel is a deliberate tactic to hide the fact that really the story is very flimsy and that if you pause for long enough you'll realise it isn't up to very much. Which is a shame becuase the outstanding two parter last year the empty child/the doctor dances showed that if the story is given time to develop then it will pay dividends. The very poor ending to this weeks epsiode really highlights for me the drawback of the 45 minute story as by the time you've got the characters into s decent situation you've run out of time to come up with a decent solution and you end up with rushed and convenient outcome rather then an effective dramtic one.
The debate over whether Doctor Who is a childrens program or not has been raging since the show first aired and it will probably continue to run for as long as Doctor Who exists in one form or another. I agree that its important that the main target audience of children are kept entertained but i also feel its important that the production team keep the istories nteresting for the adults as well (and i donlt just mean more snogging and heaving bosoms) as IMO if the older audience is lost then a lot of children are going to find themselves watching somehting else on Saturday night whether they want to or not.
Still its still one of the few TV programs I bother to watch so it can't all be bad and im sure a lot of my negagtivity comes from the high standards i know it can and expect it to achieve on a regular basis. People mention on this thread about people getting upset over Doctor Who as if this is a bad thing but for me this shows theres till passion for the show which can only be a good thing. Its when we stop getting upset and just can't be bothered with the show that i'll be worried.
I think the reason Doctor Who suffers more than other series in a 45 minute format is because of it's very nature of 'go anywhere'. Other series have a set location and premise that doesn't vary that much from week to week (he's a cop/doctor/lawyer with a quirk working at a police station/hospital/courthouse) whereas Who has to squeeze in explaining the location and a new cast of characters each week on top of the main story.
Porsmond
20-04-2006, 19:25
Remember that the BBC is showing the Liverpool v Chelsea cup game before it. If this goes to extra time (& even penalty's) it could be on between 7:45 & 8:15pm!
And watch out if you're recording this on Sky Plus, I know that Sky Plus should alter itself to still record it if the football overruns, but I remember last series episode 3 I think where it never recorded I think for many people because of a similar situation like this, so be warned, there is always the sunday repeat though on BBC3 if it should mess up though
:luv: ................................................................................ :luv:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e95/newpicpet/newdwm369.jpg
:n0rty:................................................................................ :n0rty:
& no, I don't mean the dog!
(although its good to see him back as well :thumbs: )
If you want to see her first ever adventure with the Doctor then tune into UKGold on Saturday 22nd @ 7:10am (8;10am on UKGold+1)
Doctor Who Omnibus : 'The Time Warrior (http://www.gallifreyone.com/episode.php?id=3u)'
Jon Pertwee is the time-travelling hero in an adventure from the 1970s. The Doctor travels back to the Middle Ages when a group of 20th-century scientists go missing¸ and discovers that they have been transported to repair the starship of an alien commander who has crash-landed on Earth. First appearing here is one of the monsters that would plague the Doctor many times again; the hideous potato-headed Sontarans!
DarkAvenger
21-04-2006, 17:47
Originally posted by Porsmond
And watch out if you're recording this on Sky Plus, I know that Sky Plus should alter itself to still record it if the football overruns, but I remember last series episode 3 I think where it never recorded I think for many people because of a similar situation like this, so be warned, there is always the sunday repeat though on BBC3 if it should mess up though
Of course there is also the possibility that the BBC may even postpone the episode for a week if the football does run over. That is certainly quite a big possibility according to some sources so let's hope that there is a result in the 90 minutes.
KennyVader
22-04-2006, 18:16
Hmmm. There seems to be some football nonsense on my telly :cry:
And snooker on BBC2 :mad:
/writes to Points of View :nuts: :lol:
gareth101
22-04-2006, 19:04
Just watched todays episode. Tripe.
Just watched todays episode. Tripe.
Please keep this episode to episode one only. Feel free to start a new thread for the second episode.
DeadKenny
22-04-2006, 19:31
Didn't have a problem with New Earth. I'd say it's not much different to End of the World from the first series which wasn't that amazing, but a nice bit of action and fun.
I'm not surprised at the backlash though as after the high of the first series a lot of people are just going to be out to knock the second at any cost, especially the critics (and we're all critics here).
By the end of the season it will still be getting heaps of praise and I bet even the RTD written episodes are liked on further viewing as they are on the first series ;).
Very poor, switched off b4 end.
Come on, it can't be *that* bad? :cuckoo: :D
George vader
27-04-2006, 20:11
Well I finally got round to watching this episode and it was, well, ok.Not to sure about Tenant as the Dr, when he launches into a shouting frenzy it just doean't seem natural.
The story did seem rushed towards the final third of the episode, I would have thought one story per two episodes would be a better compromise.
Hopefully though Rose will stick to 'that' look ;)
Please keep this episode to episode one only. Feel free to start a new thread for the second episode.
Do we really need a seperate thread for EVERY episode ..... :shrug:
andybhoy
27-04-2006, 22:53
Do we really need a seperate thread for EVERY episode ..... :shrug:
Average posts per thread 150 (this one getting lose to 200). 13 threads. Nearly 2000 posts, probably going to be more. Other than the sports forum, they tend to lock threads at 1000 posts.
Yep, I'd say we need separate threads. But even if it wasn't the case, does it really hurt to have a separate thread?
Do we really need a seperate thread for EVERY episode ..... :shrug:
I wish every series had a separate thread per episode. I am behind with watching both SG1 and Atlantis and daren't read their threads in case of spoilers.
Do we really need a seperate thread for EVERY episode ..... :shrug:
And why has this suddenly become a problem NOW ? :shrug:
We had separate threads for last years opening series and it worked quite well. As Doctor Who is quite a popular program it is easier all round if we have separate threads so anybody that doesn't watch the episode straight away can still post in the relevant thread, by putting all the discussion into one thread could mean the thread is a bit of a mess. We have a lot of single thread episodes in this forum - Lost, 24, Prison Break and Alias to name but a few, and I have no doubt that there were probably some for Stargate as well.
This matter isn't up for discussion so if you want to talk about it, drop us a mail.
neilalford
28-04-2006, 07:54
I wish every series had a separate thread per episode. I am behind with watching both SG1 and Atlantis and daren't read their threads in case of spoilers.
Yep, have the same problem with the West Wing series 7 thread, would like to read it, but because it covers the whole series and people have been "travelling to America" each week to watch it, it's almost impossible to read without picking up spoilers for later episodes!
Bringing this thread back on track, the Broadcasters Audience Research Board (BARB) have released the final ratings numbers for New Earth. it was watched by 8.62 million in the UK, an increase of 0.63m on the initial overnight figures. These new figures take into account research into timeshifted viewing (watching the episode later after recording it).
this means, Doctor Who - New Earth was third place for the week in all UK programs behind ITV1's "Coronation Street" and BBC1's "EastEnders", and places ninth for the week in the top ten airings (as 'Coronation Street' and 'EastEnders' are both shown multiple times, five and three respectively).
This was also a million viewers up on 'Aliens of London' on the same Saturday in 2005, and 0.62m ahead of the series average for last year, making it the fifth most successful episode since Doctor Who's return, only slightly behind the 8.63m achieved by 'Dalek'.
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