View Full Version : Will you be waiting for Blu-Ray?
Sooo, first post in the new forum and a simple question - Are you going to make the move for HD-DVD as soon as you can grab a player, or are you going to hold off for Blue Ray?
While i was sure Blu-Ray was the way to go - the startling price difference between them is making me start to reconsider - and tempting me towards the HD-DVD format
I dont think I can afford the likely £800 + never mind justify that much on either format. So a no from me to either just yet.
Sooo, first post in the new forum and a simple question
I got that pleasure with the affiliate links thread ;)
As to the topic, I'll be waiting for the combined players to come down in price and a new plasma, but I do like the idea of the new formats if they are used in the correct way (e.g. to make good use of the capacity)
interesting link I read today - for those who cant be arsed to click, the gist is:
Universal Studios Home Entertainment has completely stopped producing UMD movies, according to executives who asked not to be identified by name. Said one high-ranking exec: 'It's awful. Sales are near zilch. It's another Sony bomb -- like Blu-ray.
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=technologyNews&storyID=2006-03-30T151058Z_01_N30216728_RTRIDST_0_TECH-UNIVERSALMEDIADISC-DC.XML&archived=False
Spooky_uk
04-04-2006, 12:23
I'll be waiting and seeing what happens first. the 2 camps should have got their act together and not gone for another format war. plus, not got a HD TV yet - waiting for the 1080p plasma sets to appear and drop a little first.
In the long run I don't think the market will sustain 2 formats, so ones going to have fall by the wayside for it to become mass market down the road...
Michael Mackenzie
04-04-2006, 12:25
I'm going to root for an R1 Blu-Ray player, on the grounds of both technological superiority and the fact that it has more major studios behind it than HD-DVD. I would have considered waiting for a combo player, but I suspect it'll be a while after launch until one is released.
I'll probably wait until players are ~£200, I like to call it 'the Wharfedale threshold' ;)
Although the PS3 actually coming out will also be an option if that happens first! If HD-DVD doesn't get established before the PS3 arrives, then it's going to be steamrollered. I don't see the two formats co-existing for long.
And I'd probably want to get a newer projector.
Space Duck
04-04-2006, 12:50
Yes but look at UMD and minidisc.... Sony don't have the best history in presenting new formats... I'll be going for HD-DVD as the family abuse my discs no end, a blu-ray disc would end up scratched beyond repair in my 'ouse....
I agree that the market won't support more than one format, I just think that format is going to be DVD for a few years yet.
No, I won't be buying anything new for quite a while.
Deaks.
hookbeak
04-04-2006, 12:56
I won't bother with either yet. One one will survive and i'm not wasting the money. Besides i object to the scale of the DRM being injected into the pair of them.
Legendary
04-04-2006, 13:03
Well I wouldn't bother buying them for the moment, but if I have a PS3 I would use them to see what it is like.
xraystan
04-04-2006, 13:04
I wasn't going to bother with either, as DVD will still be around for sometime, yet. Look how long it took VHS to fade into the background. However with the PS3 providing Blu-Ray, I looks like I'll be going the Blu Ray route, as I'll look at buying a PS3.
I think that HD-DVD is going to win, purely on price. People say that Blu-Ray is technolgically more advanced, and that's rubbish in my opinion. They both use the same codecs, will have the same output resolution, and the only thing that Blu-Ray has is a higher capcaity. Anyway, dual-layer Blu-Ray discs are not yet in volume production so I suspect that the first films released will be on a single layer. However, when the authoring studios get used to coding in AVC and don't use MPEG-2 then that advantage of capacity disappears. Then it will come down to price and the Chinese will hold the key. Sub-50 pound HD-DVD players in two years time will mean the end of Blu-Ray....... Or so my crystal ball says!
nwgarratt
04-04-2006, 13:28
The Chinese aleady have a HD format and developed their own one. They even developed their own DVD system (EVD) so they don't have to pay licence fees to the big Western companies.
I am not getting into eiher HD DVD and Blu Ray until I have to or, prices come down drastically when their is one winner out of the two.
I don't know enough about the formats to root for one particularly to win in the market (and both seem to have similar levels of DRM). If I buy a player for a new format, it'll have to be one which supports both -- if studios are each going to commit exclusively to one format, I don't want to be left with a player which can't handle certain films (and I don't want two pieces of hardware!).
The idea of exclusive support by studios seems really silly to me. Does a given studio think "Joe Average is a fan of movies made/distributed by StudioX, so we can count on his support for FormatY. Come on Joe! You'll need that format to buy our films!"? 'Cause I for one never think "I liked that film, so I'll buy some more from that studio"; the studio is the last element of commonality to consider, after writer, director, actor, producer, composer, etc.
This format war is just the latest brain-dead move from an industry intent on throwing out stupid ideas (how about downloadable films that cost more than a DVD and can't be burnt to disc for use in a DVD player?). Have they not seen DVD-A and SACD (another Sony format!)?
pompeyfan
04-04-2006, 13:39
I've seen LG are doing a combo player for release in the Auitumn, but I can't see me going with either format for a few years yet. The prices of HD players and TV's will have to drop to current DVD player and 28" W/S CRT price levels before I'll even consider it and even then it'll take some thought as I'm more than happy with the quality of current DVD's and don't relise the idea of having to buy all the same films/TV series again.
degeneration
04-04-2006, 13:51
Blu-ray due to the PS3.
My reason for getting a DVD player early (well early 2000) was due to crappy sound on VHS. But once I get a taste of HD Blood who knows how bad my cravings will get.
JimDriver2
04-04-2006, 13:59
I'm gonna be wating as well. The current HD-TV's have me tempted, but you know everything will be cheaper by next year.
I'll wait until we know how its all going to turn out, the format etc.
One thing im certain about is that this won't mean better discs. The reason most films have less a than wonderful transfer or audio track isn't down to technology but lack of effort on the studios part. So i definitly won't be replacing any of my dvds.
nwgarratt
04-04-2006, 14:07
I am going to be pessimistic and I think both will either fail or just get limited success like laserdisc.
Is the DRM thing still happening? That will put some people off immediately.
I hope I won't see films made by Sony/Columbia Tristar just released for Blu Ray and the same for HD DVD. The films needs to be released for both formats and up to the person buying it to decide which format. Otherwise, a single format HD Player will have no chance as everybody will want a dual format one.
Also I believe prices for films will be high for as long as possible. We are still getting £15-£20 DVD's when new. I bet a DVD in HD will be back to laserdisc prices for sometime. I remember paying as high as £40 for most of my LD's.
joconnor
04-04-2006, 14:27
I'll probably wait until players are ~£200, I like to call it 'the Wharfedale threshold' ;)
:lol:
I was thinking the exact same thing, only last night I said to my mate "When Tescos start selling Wharfdale hi-def players for sub 200 quid then I'll get one"
Michael Mackenzie
04-04-2006, 14:31
Is the DRM thing still happening? That will put some people off immediately.Of the six major studios, I believe that all except Warner have now announced that they do not intend to use the ICT flag which would force down-sampling on non-HDCP displays. There are still a lot of restrictions, but the one that people considered the most troublesome seems to be falling by the wayside, so there's hope yet.
Also I believe prices for films will be high for as long as possible. We are still getting £15-£20 DVD's when new. I bet a DVD in HD will be back to laserdisc prices for sometime. I remember paying as high as £40 for most of my LD's.Have a look at the prices for Blu-Ray discs on the likes of DVD Box Office. They're in the region of $25, which is pretty much the same as a regular DVD release. Of course, when they finally come out in the UK the costs will no doubt be higher, but I plan to sidestep that little fiasco by importing a Region 1 player and getting all my titles from the US.
DVDs are gonna be the main format for at least 10 years. HD DVD/Bluray willl have their own niche market. There will be a superior format 5 years down the road which will eventually succeeed DVD.
Personally, I'll settle for Sky HD and DVDs as they are, unless HD-dVD and Bluray players and discs tumble to prices of current DVD players and discs.
There is no way I am even considering getting either of these until there are region-free players.
Andrew70
04-04-2006, 16:12
I thought an exec said recently there would be no region coding on the new formats because the release windows for films in various territories were becoming neglible.
I'm sure I read that somewhere.
Michael Mackenzie
04-04-2006, 16:27
I thought an exec said recently there would be no region coding on the new formats because the release windows for films in various territories were becoming neglible.
I'm sure I read that somewhere.Apparently, there will be three regions for Blu-Ray, although it is expected that catalogue titles will not be coded. The spanner that could throw the whole machine out of whack, though, is Australia and New Zealand, where region coding is illegal.
However, Toshiba's first two HD-DVD players won't recognise region code flags. I have a feeling that, if HD-DVD is going to end up being region-free, Blu-Ray will follow suit.
See my blog post (http://whiggles.landofwhimsy.com/2006/03/blu-ray-and-hd-dvd-region-coding.html) for more info.
nwgarratt
04-04-2006, 16:29
Have a look at the prices for Blu-Ray discs on the likes of DVD Box Office. They're in the region of $25, which is pretty much the same as a regular DVD release. Of course, when they finally come out in the UK the costs will no doubt be higher, but I plan to sidestep that little fiasco by importing a Region 1 player and getting all my titles from the US.
I have seen those prices and don't believe them. They will go up. The first HD DVD's have been released in Japan and are 5000 Yen/£25 and they are old films. The first HD-DVD player released is a Toshiba and cost over £500/100,000 Yen.
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20060331/toshiba1.htm
interesting link I read today - for those who cant be arsed to click, the gist is:
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=technologyNews&storyID=2006-03-30T151058Z_01_N30216728_RTRIDST_0_TECH-UNIVERSALMEDIADISC-DC.XML&archived=False
Not surprised at all. Who wants to bother with paying £15 - £20 for a film you can only watch on a 2 inch screen??
zantarous
04-04-2006, 18:30
DVDs are gonna be the main format for at least 10 years
I have a feeling the studios would love to get rid of DVD as soon as possible as it is so easy to make perfect DVD copies they will be looking to the HD formats to provide better security.
Also with regards to price remember when a lot of films were transferred to DVD the masters were done in HD in preparation for move to HD, that should help reduce the cost. HD movies are going to be big business and the industries will be pushing them big time.
I'll settle for Sky HD and DVDs as they are
That is the like saying you will settle for SKY digital and VHS, I have seen on US forums were people have been watching HD movies on movie channels and then find the quality of DVD not as good as it used to be.
I have a feeling the studios would love to get rid of DVD as soon as possible as it is so easy to make perfect DVD copies they will be looking to the HD formats to provide better security.
Also with regards to price remember when a lot of films were transferred to DVD the masters were done in HD in preparation for move to HD, that should help reduce the cost. HD movies are going to be big business and the industries will be pushing them big time.
That is the like saying you will settle for SKY digital and VHS, I have seen on US forums were people have been watching HD movies on movie channels and then find the quality of DVD not as good as it used to be.Maybe they do, and when HD DVDs drop big time in price, I'd be interested. But the mainstream public won't. They won't go out and buy a HDTV and replace their new DVD collection. Hell, most people I know don't even have WS TV :lol:
And what is the problem with having Sky HD and a DVD player. I don't watch many DVDs; the majority of what I watch is on Sky. I didn't realise Sky HD wasn't as good as HD DVD.
zantarous
04-04-2006, 21:01
They won't go out and buy a HDTV and replace their new DVD collection
No is being asked to replace their DVD collection anyone who is doing that to last question either has far to much money or is a very dedicated movie collector.
Michael Mackenzie
04-04-2006, 21:04
No is being asked to replace their DVD collection anyone who is doing that to last question either has far to much money or is a very dedicated movie collector.Exactly. What I really don't understand is this whole "they're making me buy all my DVDs again" argument that crops up so often. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players are backwards compatible with DVDs, and it's not as if the studios are holding guns to people's heads and forcing them to rebuy! Myself, I expect to replace a small number of titles that either look particularly awful on DVD or are personal favourites. For anything else, my DVD collection ain't goin' nowhere.
nwgarratt
04-04-2006, 21:05
No is being asked to replace their DVD collection anyone who is doing that to last question either has far to much money or is a very dedicated movie collector.
I think anyone who attempts to replace any collection would be mad or doesn't have enough DVD's to start with.
I have about 1500 DVD's and even if I had HD, I would replace none of them except maybe the LOTR trilogy. I have seen some HD TV captures and they look mighty impressive. However, it wouldn't stop me getting new films in HD if I get into the format.
thescrounger
04-04-2006, 21:24
I think I'd be unlikely to dive into either format until a) It was quite cheap and b) there's a clear sign of which format will stay in the race.
HD-DVD for me cos I likes DVDs and I don't like Sony.
Sony has been in the huff ever since they got a kicking from Europeans over VHS and they'll not be getting my support anytime soon.
Not that they have anything to sell me anyway.
beeleebme
04-04-2006, 21:50
There is still too much uncertainty relating to both formats too make an informed decision at this time. Certainly Blu-Ray seems to have made better inroads in recent time in getting studio backing but there are rumours floating around different things relating to HDMI etc that we will all have to just wait and see. Could be next year before we even see players ready for consumers.
I will be getting a PS3 - willl I be able to play bluray movies on it?
Michael Mackenzie
04-04-2006, 22:04
I will be getting a PS3 - willl I be able to play bluray movies on it?Yes.
Blu-ray for me. I don't see any point in HD-DVD, except for maybe Universal studios stuff.
zantarous
04-04-2006, 22:41
I don’t think it is as clear cut as choosing one format over the other, there are still things that are up in the air like DRM and region coding and until this is cleared up it is impossible to make a decision. If HD DVD come out tomorrow and say:
“Zanty my boy if you buy our product there will be no region coding, there will be no firm ware updates to stop this in future and all DRM is transparent to the end user”
I would jump at it, as it is everyone is keeping things close to their chests and not really telling the consumer. Also with two formats I think the best option is to wait for a universal deck.
thescrounger
04-04-2006, 22:44
UMDs have died a death, so I'll wait and see what happens with sonys second attempt at a new video format.;)
Sprout Crumble
05-04-2006, 01:08
I really, really hope Blu-Ray dies a quick and very expensive death. Everyone was quite happy developing a unified format until, as usual, Sony thought they could make more money doing their own thing.
Remember Minidisc, UMD, Memorystick (and its 50 sub-types) and no end of other little formats designed to screw the consumer simply because Sony weren't happy with an equal share of the big pot but wanted more. Nasty little company currently having the really bad time they thoroughly deserve. Hope the X360 and Revo kick the PS3's arse as well.
Rant over.
I have spent £££££££ in the past sevevn years of collecting, so am in no hurry to change over yet. Added to the fact that imo hd lcds are still not up to the quality needed to do a hd source real justice. It wont be blu ray, down to Sonys policy on regional coding.
I won't be investing in either for a couple of years. I've only got a 32" CRT at the moment and until I upgrade that I can't see the point in going HD. By then of course the format battle should of been decided.
I also can't see this going mainstream until the players are sub £100. The uptake will be no where near as prolific as it was for DVD, so time is very much on my side. :thumbs:
nwgarratt
05-04-2006, 11:12
What if HVD (Holograhic) starts getting in the film business once it gets going?
thescrounger
05-04-2006, 14:01
What if HVD (Holograhic) starts getting in the film business once it gets going?
It's not really ideal for the film business, that format. There'd be so much wasted space on a disc.
I really, really hope Blu-Ray dies a quick and very expensive death. Everyone was quite happy developing a unified format until, as usual, Sony thought they could make more money doing their own thing.
But, isn't Bluray superior to HD DVD?
thescrounger
05-04-2006, 15:17
But, isn't Bluray superior to HD DVD?
Only relative to disc space, and until there are side by side comparisons, it's a moot point.
nwgarratt
05-04-2006, 15:21
It's not really ideal for the film business, that format. There'd be so much wasted space on a disc.
Surely that is a good thing as the bitrate can be really high and maybe have uncompressed audio.
thescrounger
05-04-2006, 15:24
Surely that is a good thing as the bitrate can be really high and maybe have uncompressed audio.
I don't think that would be a problem on HD-DVD anyway. I mean, if they have space for a 480p version of the film on the same disc as well they can easily fit uncompressed audio and a high video bitrate.
I certainly won't be buying a Blu-Ray player unless I end up having too. I'm hoping that the failure of UMD (Which I predicted before the first movies were available. Mwuhahahaha!!! :) ) will give Sony pause.
The are 2 issues that Sony really have to overcome as far as I can see.
1) DVD is no-where near ready to roll over and die. And has a good fews years left in it yet. (HD-DVD also has this problem of course) and
2) The DVD name alone will be a big draw for Joe Public. If there's a Blu-Ray player and a HD-DVD player sitting on a shelf in your local comet, i think most people (who have no idea about the technical differences and probably a good deal of those that do) would buy the HD-DVD player.
James
2) The DVD name alone will be a big draw for Joe Public. If there's a Blu-Ray player and a HD-DVD player sitting on a shelf in your local comet, i think most people (who have no idea about the technical differences and probably a good deal of those that do) would buy the HD-DVD player.
James
The problem there is The PS3. As its blu-ray compatable and has the Playstation name, itll sell by the truckload.
Yeah, but the PSP has sold by the truck load, but the UMD format has failed :)
I know it's a different proposition entirely, but it could well end up as just a carrier format for ps3 games.
James
If they drop the ict flag and allow 1080I over component, I may give either format a try. I'd still prefer a dual format player which will save me having a hi-def doorstop if i pick the losing side though.
Why's everyone dissing sony? I hate Sony for their lone formats. However, this time its the other way around. Blu-ray is backed by all the majors...its HD-DVD thats the one thats a lone format.
thescrounger
05-04-2006, 19:50
Why's everyone dissing sony? I hate Sony for their lone formats. However, this time its the other way around. Blu-ray is backed by all the majors...its HD-DVD thats the one thats a lone format.
It is backed by microsoft though. Also at the moment it looks like HD-DVD will be first out of the gate.
I think I'd be tempted to buy a player and output SD to my current set up, so I can stop buying DVDs and start buying hi-def disks, but like most I think I'll wait until either the format war ends or (likely to be sooner) region free dual format machines come along. Oh, and whichever format Criterion pick... :p
The other problem is simply not being able to justify ditching a perfectly good telly so I can get an HD display... although a projector might be the way to do it.
fattyboombatty
06-04-2006, 20:35
blu-ray can suck my balls.
fattyboombatty
06-04-2006, 20:44
What if HVD (Holograhic) starts getting in the film business once it gets going?
i think that format is for storage sloutions rather than film/dvd applications.
Michael Mackenzie
06-04-2006, 20:45
blu-ray can suck my balls.Very insightful.
Why's everyone dissing sony? I hate Sony for their lone formats. However, this time its the other way around. Blu-ray is backed by all the majors...its HD-DVD thats the one thats a lone format.
Exactly! I'm the same, screw the propriatary formats regardless off the manufacturer. You can't critisise Sony for doing it in the past but let Toshiba off the hook!
It is backed by microsoft though.
Is that meant to be a good thing? If anyone's "evil" it's MS. Either way, MS haven't had much to do with HD-DVD other than announcing a HD-DVD drive which I'm a little skeptical about. If Sony had been involved with HD-DVD they'd have alligned themselves with Blu-ray.
2) The DVD name alone will be a big draw for Joe Public.
This is a common argument but in reality it will have little or no difference. Any difference is likely to be negative rather than positive. There are two reasons for this, one the name is likely to be confusing to consumers since it can be confused with DVD, upscaling DVD players (sometimes called HD-DVD) and WMVHD DVD. Since the name "Blu-ray" is completely new it can't be confused with any media format (including DVD)
The other thing this argument assumes is that people won't know what Blu-ray is, and they'd just walk into a shop and see two products they knew nothing about and would judge solely on the name. If this was true it might be a valid point but of course we live in a world of marketing and the Blu-ray name will be thrown at us. Being new it's also going to grab attention. People forget that VHS and DVD were as unknown then as Blu-ray is now.
Yeah, but the PSP has sold by the truck load, but the UMD format has failed
Well it's a bit premature to say it's failed. It's certainly not doing well but considering what a terrible idea it was it's actually been a massive success. Watching films on a PSP isn't a bad idea though, it's paying £20 when you can pay £10 for the DVD and rip it onto a memory stick
Who wants to pay more to get something worse? Blu-ray, is not only not worse than DVD, it's much much better and is set to be cheaper than UMD
While i was sure Blu-Ray was the way to go - the startling price difference between them is making me start to reconsider - and tempting me towards the HD-DVD format
If you're tempted by the price alone it's worth remembering that Blu-ray players will come down fairly quickly. The PS3 will make a good stop gap for that. Also, if HD-DVD fails it's no longer a bargin since you'd have wasted the money on the player (and possibly discs), you'd end up spending more money than someone who bought Blu-ray from the start.
I can understand some people choosing HD-DVD (not why though) but to do so on price is a bit of false economy.
fattyboombatty
06-04-2006, 22:25
Very insightful.
really? i thought it was rather fatuous, actually. i don't think you're taking this thread seriously, at all :wave:
I for one hope the blue ray format wins solely because it is technically superior. This will give studios more space on the disc to play with to make sure the film has the best picture quality possible. Prices will always come down
As others have probably mentioned, I reckon the success of the the PS3 will be integral to which HD format takes off.
HD-DVD players may be cheaper to begin with, but probably not cheap enough for the mass market. However, if PS3 gains a large userbase quickly, then the blu-ray capability may interest enough people to buy the discs. PS2 certainly helped in the uptake of DVD, and until standalone players are under £200 and in the supermarket, this may well become the format of choice for those on a budget, or not as AV enthusiastic as those from forums such as this.
thescrounger
07-04-2006, 15:15
If Bluray does win the market, it will be the first time any video format it has created has ever done so, worth baring in mind.
PS2 certainly helped in the uptake of DVD
I don't think that's true at all. It was DVD players appearing in supermarkets at around the £100 price mark that really helped DVD take off. Specifically the samsung 709 and I forget the other.
If Bluray does win the market, it will be the first time any video format it has created has ever done so, worth baring in mind.
"it" being Sony? Given that it didn't really create Blu-ray and it's only really created one format, Betamax, which has been the international broadcast standard tape for the last 30 years despite losing the home market.
I don't think that's true at all. It was DVD players appearing in supermarkets at around the £100 price mark that really helped DVD take off.
Well "take off" is a pretty vague term. Obviously more people bought a DVD player when cheapies arrived, that's simple economics. I would say that if DVD hadn't taken off at that point £100 players would probably not have arrived or they wouldn't be in demand. £100 for a player is meaningless if no one's interested in the format.
Before cheap players the only option was a PS2 or a DVD-Rom drive. They were a popular option for people not willing to spend a lot of money on a player.
I reckon the success of the the PS3 will be integral to which HD format takes off.
I'm not sure I agree. I think Blu-ray will be ahead even without the PS3, like you say it has a lot going for it. However the PS3 will take it from more popular to massively more popular. The main difference this time is that the PS3 will be released about 6 months after Blu-ray where as the PS2 was about 12-18 months after DVD
nwgarratt
07-04-2006, 16:25
It was the imported Samsung 807 in 1999 (bought one myself after using a DXR2 DVD in the computer) and the official UK Sasmung 709 that started the £200 barrier DVD player. Any other player at the time was £500+.
The first cheap Supermarket DVD player was the Wharefdale 750 and 750s and that was still £150ish when it came out. DVD did become more popular then.
It doesn't matter is Sony didn't invent Blu Ray they did come with the idea in the first place but, needed help in finalising the technology. That is enough for people to think that Sony invented it that and avoid Sony if they wish.
thescrounger
07-04-2006, 16:40
Betamax, which has been the international broadcast standard tape for the last 30 years despite losing the home market.
I don't think we should confuse the broadcast format with the consumer format (which died a death).
Spectre07
07-04-2006, 17:52
I think Blu Ray will win out for a number of reasons. The way I see it is, DVD is fine for SD TV's so, there isn't going to be a huge demand for any of the next gen formats until there's a large number of HD tv in peoples homes.
The changeover from SD to HD sets is going to take several years so the demand for HD DVD and Blu Ray is going to be muted for the next few years. That is except, PS3 is launching this year so Sony at least, will get thousands of BR 'players' into peoples homes ahead of the inevitable move towards HD TV's.
A year from now, assuming Sony launch PS3 on time there'll effectively be a few hundred thousand BR players in UK homes. How long will it take standalone HD-DVD players to reach those levels. In the meantime retailers are going to have to decide which format to support. What would you do?
The changeover from SD to HD sets is going to take several years so the demand for HD DVD and Blu Ray is going to be muted for the next few years.
I think that's a wild overestimate. I'd be surprised if HD penetration is much over 20-30% by 2010.
Although mant people here can see the benfits of HD, I really don't think the average consumer is ready for any new format just yet. The industry is ready because they want to re-sell you all the movies you've bought on standard DVD and move everybody over to a more "secure" format that isn't bleeding money like DVD (although I'm, expecting the CP on both formats it to be "cracked" faster than DVD was. That may also be a crucial issue. whichever format has people selling pirates at the bootsale the fastest, may just be the winner).
Anyway, just my comments and feelings.
James
I'm more inclined to think that HD will have a steady take up, boosted by Sky HD making lots of people aware of it (rather than the negative effect the format war is going to have) - after all, look at how fast DVD take up was in this country, as well as wide-screen sets. Joe Public in the UK has repeatedly shown he is capable of taking on new technology.
I also think the failure of DVD-A and SACD to catch the public's imagination is because audio is actually getting lower-fi rather than improving - going from LP (if you're a purist - I'm not ;) ) to CD and now "down" to MP3; whereas people can easily see the improvement in PQ that HD will bring.
But... if there's one thing that could scupper HD, it is this blasted format war - will they ever learn? I reckon that the only salvation is easily obtainable, dual format players; otherwise, who's going to bother? If I have a BD player but there's a title I want that's only available on HD-DVD, I'm not going to be a happy bunny!
It's just occured to me.
Is Blu-Ray still gonna require internet authorisation to play discs? If they do and HD-DVD doesn't it could be over very quick for Blu-Ray in exactly the same way as DIVX died in just a matter of months againt DVD....
If neither require authorisation to play, please ignore this post :)
James
Michael Mackenzie
07-04-2006, 22:06
Is Blu-Ray still gonna require internet authorisation to play discs?I really doubt it. I suspect that even the studios realise that no-one wants to have to connect their player to the Internet in order to play a movie. If Internet connectivity is used at all, I suspect it's going to be for downloadable extras rather than the films themselves.
Spectre07
07-04-2006, 22:16
I think that's a wild overestimate. Why is it? Virtually every TV in the shops is 'HD ready'. You won't have a choice but to replace your CRT with anything but a HD TV. In the next two or three years HD TV's will dramatically fall in price. When that happens I can see people replacing their TV's with flat screen HD displays whether they need or not.
AndyWilson
07-04-2006, 22:24
I'm more inclined to think that HD will have a steady take up, boosted by Sky HD making lots of people aware of it (rather than the negative effect the format war is going to have) - after all, look at how fast DVD take up was in this country, as well as wide-screen sets. Joe Public in the UK has repeatedly shown he is capable of taking on new technology.
I also think the failure of DVD-A and SACD to catch the public's imagination is because audio is actually getting lower-fi rather than improving - going from LP (if you're a purist - I'm not ;) ) to CD and now "down" to MP3; whereas people can easily see the improvement in PQ that HD will bring.
I still can't see what will make 90% of viewers, to whom picture quality is not an issue, buy into HD though. DVD was different - it offered a convenience that VHS didn't have, and the familiarity of the 5" optical disc format overcame any technophobia. It also had a huge advantage for retailers - it required less rack space.
I'd also dispute that the quality increases can be easily seen too. I had my first "proper AV dealer" look at HD last weekend - some satellite sports channel showing boxing displayed on a Sony (I think) 37" LCD. To my eyes, from a normal viewing distance it was marginally better than the best Sky picture on my elderly 42" plasma - if it wasn't for the HD logo in the channel DOG I wouldn't have known it wasn't SD - by no means the vast WOW factor I'd been lead to expect.
Why is it? Virtually every TV in the shops is 'HD ready'. You won't have a choice but to replace your CRT with anything but a HD TV. In the next two or three years HD TV's will dramatically fall in price. When that happens I can see people replacing their TV's with flat screen HD displays whether they need or not.
I agree 100% with what you are saying but the same could be said for component connections and progressive scan, people will buy whatever is on offer but they dont have to use the latest connections.
Just a thought. :)
zantarous
07-04-2006, 22:43
I had my first "proper AV dealer" look at HD last weekend - some satellite sports channel showing boxing displayed on a Sony (I think) 37" LCD. To my eyes, from a normal viewing distance it was marginally better than the best Sky picture on my elderly 42" plasma - if it wasn't for the HD logo in the channel DOG I wouldn't have known it wasn't SD - by no means the vast WOW factor I'd been lead to expect.
My advice is get down to a better AV dealer, seriously I have been to loads over the last few months and seen a lot of the demo material that the manufactures have put out and it looks amazing. Granted this is not what TV broadcasts will look like but HD DVD + Bluray can.
Have a look at the fish tank screen saver on one of them, I saw that a few years ago in Walmart in the US of all places and they had a SD fed plasma net to it, I had to do a double take as I thought at first I was looking at a fish tank.
Spectre07
07-04-2006, 22:47
I don't think people will buy into the HD players in their own right. What I think will happen is, once flat screen TV's become more affordable, by which time they'll all be HD, people will replace their CRT TV's with flat screen TV's. They won't be buying HD displays because they'll be HD, they'll be buying flat screen TV's because it's the 'thing to have'. I know people who threw out perfectly good 4:3 TV's and replaced them with widescreen TV's because 4:3 were passe. I think the same will happen with CRT being replaced by flat screens. Once that happens then the HD format discs and players stand a chance of being taken up more widely. That's why I think Blu Ray will win out as PS3 will give the format a huge installed base. It may even encourage people to move to HD displays more quickly. I know a couple of people who have brought a HD display specifically because they have an XBox360.
I still can't see what will make 90% of viewers, to whom picture quality is not an issue, buy into HD though.
I think it's more like 10%!! Those who can't will have no choice but to buy a HD display when their current set conks it. Maybe not now but it's getting like that.
Also HD is MUCH more impressive than DVD was. DVD looked just like normal TV broadcasts which is what people expect when watching something on TV. Compared to VHS it looked good but most people saw Broadcast TV as the ultimate benchmark.
HD's biggest problem is consumer ignorance. Until you see (proper) HD you're not really able to image what it's like. I think most people think of a SD picture that's cleaner and without artifacts.
Andy, what other HD video have you seen? Have you downloaded any HD trailers from www.apple.com/quicktime ? The HD gallery has some sweet wildlife stuff, that I think was actually shot in HD (rather than 35mm). If one bad in store demo is your only experience no wonder you're not impressed.
I saw that a few years ago in Walmart in the US of all places and they had a SD fed plasma net to it, I had to do a double take as I thought at first I was looking at a fish tank.
Wow! I can believe it though. When HD's done right your brain can be fooled
I know a couple of people who have brought a HD display specifically because they have an XBox360.
Loads of people on the gaming forum did that and the PS3 is set to sell many times the units of the 360
Have a look at the fish tank screen saver on one of them, I saw that a few years ago in Walmart in the US of all places and they had a SD fed plasma net to it, I had to do a double take as I thought at first I was looking at a fish tank. I was at a Fry's in San Diego in January and they had a vast range of HD displays. The PQ was simply breathtaking - myself and everyone I was with was amazed by how clear, realistic and rich the pictures were. To be honest, if that had been a store in the UK and there were HD disks available, my Visa card would have been out so fast my wallet would have melted :p
AndyWilson
08-04-2006, 08:57
Why do people assume that because I wasn't over-impressed by an HD demo it must have been a poor demo? It was a properly set-up demo in a respected AV dealer, with the salesman telling the people in front of me how great it was, and that it was the future of TV. It was certainly a more realistic demo of what most people's experience of HD will be than some fish-tank screen saver!
nwgarratt
08-04-2006, 09:53
Why do people assume that because I wasn't over-impressed by an HD demo it must have been a poor demo?
I feel the same. I saw a HD demo which was setup properly and it didn't wow me at all.
Why do people assume that because I wasn't over-impressed by an HD demo it must have been a poor demo?
Because it's hard not to be impressed. To say it looks very similar to SD rings alarm bells. The alternative is the material didn't really do HD justice. Boxing doesn't sound like it'll be as impressive as Golf or one of the main US sports
AndyWilson
08-04-2006, 10:32
But it's what most people will actually be watching. People don't select their viewing according to what will look most impressive. They watch Eastenders and CSI because they like them. They might watch golf, or they might watch boxing, but they don't make that decision based on the picture quality.
I feel the same. I saw a HD demo which was setup properly and it didn't wow me at all.
I agree with most people, I have a lot of HDTV caps from usenet of the most popular films Black Hawk down, Spiderman 2, Gladiator.
And how anyone can say they are not impressed by the quality needs there Eyes testing (No Offence) Gladiator with an average 25mps bitrate blows the DVD version out of the water the detail is fantastic, Even a few of the lower bitrate at about 12mps are of exceptional quality compared to there DVD counterpart.
My DVD buying days finished in January roll on HD-DVD
THX
Spectre07
08-04-2006, 18:08
I agree with most people, I have a lot of HDTV caps from usenet of the most popular films Black Hawk down, Spiderman 2, Gladiator.I've not been too impressed by HD properly set up either. I thinks it's because of the subject matter e.g. plane flying over a tropical island, people sitting by a riverside and the obligatory cuddly animal. What I'd like to see is a proper film, something more familiar like those, above, you've suggested. That would be a better reference point.
I agree with most people, I have a lot of HDTV caps from usenet of the most popular films Black Hawk down, Spiderman 2, Gladiator.
And how anyone can say they are not impressed by the quality needs there Eyes testing (No Offence) Gladiator with an average 25mps bitrate blows the DVD version out of the water the detail is fantastic, Even a few of the lower bitrate at about 12mps are of exceptional quality compared to there DVD counterpart.
My DVD buying days finished in January roll on HD-DVD
THX
Out of interest how do you watch them? Media Center PC?
I'm wondering because I'm considering a HD TV very soon and want something to watch without subscribing to SKY HD.
James
Out of interest how do you watch them? Media Center PC?
I'm wondering because I'm considering a HD TV very soon and want something to watch without subscribing to SKY HD.
James
Hi James,
I have the Snazzio 1350 HD DVD/Media Player i stream the HD movies downstairs via network cable, The player does all the processing and the PC just the streaming so you dont need a high spec PC.
Its also not a bad DVD player and upconverts your DVD's to 720/1080 whichever you prefer.
I did the same did not wnat to spend £299 on sky then £52 a month subs just to watch 10 HD channels.
The Snazzio costs about £230 but if your not too bothered about the DVD side they do a non DVD version for about £190 i think the 1310.
Hope this is of some help.
THX
thescrounger
08-04-2006, 21:08
Where did you get yours from THX?
Where did you get yours from THX?
Not too sure if i am allowed to link so taking the safe precaution and just say do a search in google for THE MEDIA FACTORY ;)
samchode
09-04-2006, 06:29
what surprises me are the people on here who say they have seen HD on a properly set up system and have not been impressed!!
sorry but it has either been very poor material or not properly set up :suspect:
i've seen HD correctly set up via a pj onto a 80inch + screen and nobody could fail to be impressed!
i'd be interested what exactly these 'properly set up' systems are???
what surprises me are the people on here who say they have seen HD on a properly set up system and have not been impressed!!
sorry but it has either been very poor material or not properly set up :suspect:
Agreed, I had a HDTV setup when I lived in the US a few years ago, and the 1080i and 720p feeds were superb. I had it hooked upto a 47" Panasonic RPTV set and was blown away when the feed material was good (e.g. sports live games and movies).
thescrounger
09-04-2006, 12:21
what surprises me are the people on here who say they have seen HD on a properly set up system and have not been impressed!!
sorry but it has either been very poor material or not properly set up :suspect:
Opinions are subjective, you see HD every time you go to the cinema and have done for years. We've been looking at high res images on our PC monitors for years. High Res is not a new concept. Just because somebody is not impressed with HD does not mean that cannot notice a difference. Perhaps they've been used to the concept for a long time and you've only just noticed it? I can certainly see the improvement, but I wouldn't say I was cacking my kecks impressed. It's just a higher res image with more detail. At the end of the day I'm not going to start loving my favourite films more just because of it. I am looking forward to watching the interrogation scene in Basic Instinct in HD though.
Is cinema really classified as HD? I find it very hard to believe that a 35mm film blown up to massive proportions is classified HD. 70mm maybe, but I could of course be wrong. Just surprised by that comment.
Michael Mackenzie
09-04-2006, 14:56
Is cinema really classified as HD? I find it very hard to believe that a 35mm film blown up to massive proportions is classified HD. 70mm maybe, but I could of course be wrong. Just surprised by that comment.It's estimated, I believe, that 35 mm has a resolution about four times higher than 1080p, although because film doesn't work in terms of fixed resolution you can't really measure it in that way. Suffice to say, as good as HD is it's not a patch on the level of detail offered by film.
Well as I expected i stand corrected, that's an astounding estimate! And there's me thinking that only films shot digitally would look good in HD.
I guess I am gonna have to take the plunge and get a HD TV. I'm still not gonna go Blu-Ray though (Getting us back on topic) :)
james
Spectre07
09-04-2006, 19:57
Thinking back to when I got my first proper demonstration of DVD it wasn't the image quality that blew me away it was the DD5.1 soundtrack. The PQ on a 36" Widescreen was very very good but for me the wow factor was the surround sound and that's the reason I had to get a DVD player.
Germinator
09-04-2006, 21:27
This sounds like a dumb question, but if Sony are backing Blue Ray does that mean that all Sony Columbia Tristar HD movies will be released on Blue Ray only.
This sounds like a dumb question, but if Sony are backing Blue Ray does that mean that all Sony Columbia Tristar HD movies will be released on Blue Ray only.
Dumb or not, you're correct! Not only that but MGM now that Sony have bought them. The same is also true of Disney (inc. Miramax/touchstone) and Fox although clearly Sony will never release their stuff on HD-DVD. Warner and Paramount will release on both formats and Universal have only announced HD-DVD support to date.
And there's me thinking that only films shot digitally would look good in HD.
They may actually look better on a HDTV if they're shot digitally. While 35mm is higher resolution I think watch a HD transfer on a HD display is probably as good as a digitally projected film.
Thinking back to when I got my first proper demonstration of DVD it wasn't the image quality that blew me away it was the DD5.1 soundtrack. The PQ on a 36" Widescreen was very very good but for me the wow factor was the surround sound and that's the reason I had to get a DVD player.Same here, being a hifi buff it was the sound that blew me away rather than the picture.
Chuffster
16-04-2006, 19:39
So,as HD-DVD is being released in the US this week,has anyone pre-ordered a player?
It's probably a bad idea with Blu-ray around the corner and region issues up in the air. It might be a better idea to import an australian player
This sounds like a dumb question, but if Sony are backing Blue Ray does that mean that all Sony Columbia Tristar HD movies will be released on Blue Ray only.
Well, until they lose the battle and then have to come crawling back in order for their films to be shown at home.
Michael Mackenzie
18-04-2006, 16:02
Just read this thread (http://s8.invisionfree.com/MHVF/index.php?showtopic=5203) over at Mobius. Apparently all Blu-Ray titles have to go through Sony, and they've already vetoed Synapse Films' attempts to get certain more adult-themed titles released, like Thriller: A Cruel Picture. I'm seriously reconsidering my support for Blu-Ray now - I simply don't like the idea of Sony being able to decide what does and doesn't get released, and if they're vetoing adult material like they did for BetaMax, well, that could be a nail in the coffin for the format.
Michael I hope your intellegent enough to realise that that's BS! It sounds like something a HD DVD fanboy dreamt up (credit to them for some creativity though).
Here's how you can tell:
1) It sounds stupid for a start
2) If it were true, it'd be up to the BDA to decide, not Sony.
3) Blu-ray is just like DVD and VHS, no one can tell someone what they can and can't release
4) I've never heard of Thriller: A cruel picture but considering Playboy and Digital playground (another porn distributor) are releasing their content it would be strange for something similar to be blocked.
5) The BDA have nothing to loose and everything to gain letting the world and his dog releasing anything they want.
Michael Mackenzie
19-04-2006, 08:21
Camaj: I genuinely hope you're right, but this came direct from Don May, the president of Synapse Films, who had meeting with Sony executives specifically to discuss the release of that and other titles, and was explicitly told "No, we don't want to do that".
Like I say, it just doesn't make sense. Maybe he was meeting with SPHE who very possibly would care about what they put out. Do Synapse have a distribution deal with SPHE? The same would apply to DVD if that were true.
The important thing is Sony can only control what they do not what other companies do. The BDA might be able to but it's unlikely they can or would want to
thescrounger
19-04-2006, 14:29
Sony control the format, that's the whole point.
HD-DVD is certainly looking like the VHS here.
Sony control the format, that's the whole point.
They don't. That's not the point either, the point is to make money.
HD-DVD is certainly looking like the VHS here.
How so?
thescrounger
19-04-2006, 15:00
The porn industry lead markets like this, they certainly did for DVD. If Sony are going to be able to cherry pick movie studios they allow to use Bluray it's just a crap shoot. Same goes for smaller foreign films and markets.
Anybody can release a movie on HD-DVD, even our own forums Rik Booth, However he'd have to have his movie cleared with, and pay sony to release it on Bluray.
Looks like Microsoft weren't quite so dumb in their decision to support HD-DVD now. It's all becoming clear.
The porn industry lead markets like this, they certainly did for DVD.
That's funny, I thought it was Warner Bros and Columbia :shrug:
If Sony are going to be able to cherry pick movie studios they allow to use Bluray it's just a crap shoot.
You'd be right if that was the case, which of course it isn't.
Anybody can release a movie on HD-DVD, even our own forums Rik Booth, However he'd have to have his movie cleared with, and pay sony to release it on Bluray.
Lol, no he wouldn't! It would be the BDA if it were true, which it's not. Where do you get such bizzare ideas? :lol:
Looks like Microsoft weren't quite so dumb in their decision to support HD-DVD now. It's all becoming clear.
Not when you post someones fantasy as facts. That just confuses people.
MS certainly weren't dumb. They want someone to use their iHD software and Toshiba obliged. Also anyway they can hurt Sony is probably a good thing for them what with the xbox 360.
thescrounger
19-04-2006, 15:37
Did you just make that all up?? living in your world of, "I want bluray to win, so I will make any reasons I can think of to counter arguments, regardless of facts". :nuts: Do you work for sony?
I've got a big pot of coffee here, come and have a sniff.
That's funny, I thought it was Warner Bros and Columbia
Very naive. The porn industry is bigger than Hollywood.
Michael Mackenzie
19-04-2006, 15:53
Like I say, it just doesn't make sense. Maybe he was meeting with SPHE who very possibly would care about what they put out. Do Synapse have a distribution deal with SPHE? The same would apply to DVD if that were true.Synapse's distribution deal is with Ryko, who also handle Blue Underground's DVDs - which is why I find it so strange that they were talking to Sony in the first place, unless Sony genuinely DOES control what gets released on Blu-Ray.
thescrounger
19-04-2006, 16:00
To quote Don May directly:
With BLU-RAY, the studios MUST deal with Sony... with HD-DVD, any standard DVD replicator can convert to HD-DVD without having to deal with... yeah... SONY! That certainly makes a difference with us at Synapse.
Did you just make that all up?? living in your world of, "I want bluray to win, so I will make any reasons I can think of to counter arguments, regardless of facts". :nuts:
No need to make anything up, when someone says something that make no sense or is completly baseless it's easily refutable. It's interesting that you've avoided telling me where you heard some of your crazy statements. Clearly it won't be from a credable source
Very naive. The porn industry is bigger than Hollywood.
It isn't, but that's beside the point. When DVD launched there were no Porn titles around, it was Warner and Columbia at the begining. They certainly didn't lead it.
To quote Don May directly:
Sounds like he's talking about the lack of replication rather than some kind of censorship
nwgarratt
19-04-2006, 16:06
It isn't, but that's beside the point. When DVD launched there were no Porn titles around, it was Warner and Columbia at the begining. They certainly didn't lead it.
It was the Porn industry that made DVD big at the start. I have seen a few TV programs that said the same thing years ago.
thescrounger
19-04-2006, 16:08
Sounds like he's talking about the lack of replication rather than some kind of censorship
He's talking about having to deal with sony to use Bluray, the name the product, the licence. It's not about replication at all. Why else would they not let him release two of his films on Bluray?
Why else would they not let him release two of his films on Bluray?
That's the question indeed!
AIUI software doesn't need a license but players do.
I just took a look at that thread. The thing that pops out straight away is the lack of information you'd expect someone in his position to have.
Took a bit longer than I'd like to "boot" up and the menus, because they are Java™ based
AFAIK this is incorrect. HD DVD uses MS software for interactivity, Blu-ray uses Java.
the studios aren't exactly happy with UMD sales right now and that's also a Sony "only" product
He says "only" which is open to interpretation. But while it's true UMD is a Sony propriatry format (at least hardware) the same isn't true of Blu-ray
When we met with Sony to discuss titles [...], they pretty much told us they WOULDN'T do them because of their extreme adult content!
Sounds like the replication division or SPHE. I could understand the latter and perhaps the former to a degree. It's a company's right control what they put their name on.
He's a bit vague on that though. The issue is compounded if it's true that Sony are the only ones currently with replication equipment. I hear others are being built by independant distributors but I don't know their exact status.
Do you think there are going to be any hardcore/XXX rated BLU-RAY discs? I highly doubt it...
Like I said before Playboy and Digital playground have already announced they will be releasing Blu-ray titles. So clearly DMjr isn't aware of this. What isn't clear is why synapse were having trouble with their titles if other companies aren't.
Nick Laslett
21-04-2006, 13:12
Lot of Sony hate in this thread :lol:
People do realise that the Blu-Ray Association is basically a who's who of Japanese electronics firms with only Toshiba and NEC being absent.
Matsu****a aka Panasonic have just as much of their technology in Blu-Ray as Sony. Sony won't even be the first to market in the US with the Blu-Ray player, that will be Samsung and Pioneer.
The core Blu-Ray group consists of the following companies.
Hitachi, Ltd.
LG Electronics Inc.
Matsu****a Electric Industrial Co., Ltd.
Mitsubishi Electric Corporation
Pioneer Corporation
Philips Electronics
Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.
Sharp Corporation
Sony Corporation
TDK Corporation
Apple Computer, Inc.
Dell Inc.
The re-recordable nature of blu-ray is what makes a real difference especially for the Computer industry. Dual-layer 50gb RW discs are already available for the first incarnation of Blu-Ray which was release in Japan over 2 years ago.
4 layer 100gb discs are available in the lab, with hopes that 8 layer 200gb eventually being possible.
To be blunt HD-DVD is technologically inferior to Blu-Ray with lower maximum storage space and lower bit-rate. They have less support from major CE manufactures and less support from Hollywood studios.
With Sony, Apple and Dell you are going to have a lot of Blu-Ray drives in PCs. The Playstation 3 is going to add 6 million read only drives in less than a year. And with the majority of CE manufactures releasing players, there is going to be a lot more people pushing Blu-Ray than HD-DVD.
Lol @ the autocensor!
Don't let the facts get in the way of a good Sony bash, Nick
thescrounger
21-04-2006, 17:24
Lot of Sony hate in this thread :lol:
People do realise that the Blu-Ray Association is basically a who's who of Japanese electronics firms with only Toshiba and NEC being absent.
Matsu****a aka Panasonic have just as much of their technology in Blu-Ray as Sony. Sony won't even be the first to market in the US with the Blu-Ray player, that will be Samsung and Pioneer.
The core Blu-Ray group consists of the following companies.
Hitachi, Ltd.
LG Electronics Inc.
Matsu****a Electric Industrial Co., Ltd.
Mitsubishi Electric Corporation
Pioneer Corporation
Philips Electronics
Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.
Sharp Corporation
Sony Corporation
TDK Corporation
Apple Computer, Inc.
Dell Inc.
The re-recordable nature of blu-ray is what makes a real difference especially for the Computer industry. Dual-layer 50gb RW discs are already available for the first incarnation of Blu-Ray which was release in Japan over 2 years ago.
4 layer 100gb discs are available in the lab, with hopes that 8 layer 200gb eventually being possible.
To be blunt HD-DVD is technologically inferior to Blu-Ray with lower maximum storage space and lower bit-rate. They have less support from major CE manufactures and less support from Hollywood studios.
With Sony, Apple and Dell you are going to have a lot of Blu-Ray drives in PCs. The Playstation 3 is going to add 6 million read only drives in less than a year. And with the majority of CE manufactures releasing players, there is going to be a lot more people pushing Blu-Ray than HD-DVD.
Are they a match for microsoft? And the cheaper cost of HD-DVD hardware?
Seriously it's the movie companies that will decide the format of choice as a winner, not just manufacturing hardware companies. How many times does the name UMD have to be mentioned for the reality check. Movie studios are pulling out, and that means it's dead. If consumers just don't take to Bluray, for whatever reason, it will die. Doesn't matter how good it is.
Spectre07
21-04-2006, 18:29
How many times does the name UMD have to be mentioned for the reality check. Movie studios are pulling out, and that means it's dead. If consumers just don't take to Bluray, for whatever reason, it will die. Doesn't matter how good it is. Isn't UMD the media for the PSP? If it is, then I don't think that's a very good analogy for what might happen to Blu-Ray. How many people want to watch a film on a 4 inch screen?
thescrounger
21-04-2006, 18:43
Isn't UMD the media for the PSP? If it is, then I don't think that's a very good analogy for what might happen to Blu-Ray. How many people want to watch a film on a 4 inch screen?
Yes completely different format, but another sony bomb. Movie studios are already twitchy about having wasted their time with it.
Are they a match for microsoft? And the cheaper cost of HD-DVD hardware?
1) You do realise MS are a software company right :thinking:
2) Yes, marketing, PR and outright bribary will beat cheaper hardware. If they needed to they could slash the prices and take the same hit Toshiba's taking.
Yes completely different format, but another sony bomb. Movie studios are already twitchy about having wasted their time with it. Movie studios are pulling out, and that means it's dead.
The only thing that's dead is that horse you keep flogging!
How many times do you need to be told that UMD was a Sony product and Blu-ray isn't? Just because it doesn't suit your POV, doesn't mean you should ignore it.
I'm glad UMD is flopping, but even I'm big enough to admit it was probably one of the most successful formats ever when you consider what a dumb idea it was
What didn't you like about UMD, thescrounger? The fact that you could only play back on a Sony product?
Spectre07
21-04-2006, 19:40
Yes completely different format, but another sony bomb.Well then that's why UMD isn't doing so well, not many film fans are going to want to watch films on a PSP. It's for mobile gaming and possibly as an MP3 player.
Movie studios are already twitchy about having wasted their time with it.The studios are hardly niaive, they new what they were doing and it probably invovled a lot of rubbing of hands together at the prospect of selling their films on a new format.
thescrounger
21-04-2006, 22:36
1) You do realise MS are a software company right :thinking:
2) Yes, marketing, PR and outright bribary will beat cheaper hardware. If they needed to they could slash the prices and take the same hit Toshiba's taking.
The only thing that's dead is that horse you keep flogging!
How many times do you need to be told that UMD was a Sony product and Blu-ray isn't? Just because it doesn't suit your POV, doesn't mean you should ignore it.
I'm glad UMD is flopping, but even I'm big enough to admit it was probably one of the most successful formats ever when you consider what a dumb idea it was
What didn't you like about UMD, thescrounger? The fact that you could only play back on a Sony product?
I'm just telling it like it is. Which is mostly what has been said in the industry lately, I should add.
not many film fans are going to want to watch films on a PSP.
I don't think it's that, it's just hard to sell a film for £20 when someone can buy it on DVD for £10 and rip it to a memory stick
The studios are hardly niaive, they new what they were doing and it probably invovled a lot of rubbing of hands together at the prospect of selling their films on a new format.
Almost certainly. They've got their money before people realised what a stupid prospect it was. They've milked the cow dry and now they'll be doing it at the next possible opportunity.
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