View Full Version : 1080 Screens Available?
Hi All,
Just a bit confused about all the resolutions for HDTV.
Are there actually any 1080i / p compatible TVs available in the UK at the moment? All the manufacturers are doing a good job at being confusing, and quoting actual res and then saying 1080 compatible!
So are any actually 1080 yet?
Grandmaster
02-04-2006, 19:32
Not really to be honest. Although you could get a Dell 2405FPW LCD monitor which has a 1920x1200 resolution. It'll have black borders top and bottom but at least you are getting true HD resolution.
I think to be honest you'll have to wait another year or so until large screen 1080p native monitors are available, certainly in the UK.
There are plenty of 1080 screens coming in the next few months, but it seems none will be 1080p compatible. The Toshibas coming soon (WLT66) are 1080 but wont accept 1080p and there are models coming from JVC and Sony. It is likely that the sony x series may be 1080p compatible but they are 6 months off. But those are likely to be £3 +
Ive given up waiting for these now. Even when they are released the 1080p sets will be ££££££
splobber
02-04-2006, 22:18
Not really to be honest. Although you could get a Dell 2405FPW LCD monitor which has a 1920x1200 resolution. It'll have black borders top and bottom but at least you are getting true HD resolution.
I've got the 1080p versions of Cars, Superman Returns, A Scanner Darkly and X-Men 3 trailers and they look fantastic. Good ol' WMV can't handle the framerate though so I use VLC instead.
I won't be hanging around for a 1080p set as the interlaced rezzy is good enough for my eyes at the distance I will be watching at.
I've got the 1080p versions of Cars, Superman Returns, A Scanner Darkly and X-Men 3 trailers and they look fantastic. Good ol' WMV can't handle the framerate though so I use VLC instead.
I won't be hanging around for a 1080p set as the interlaced rezzy is good enough for my eyes at the distance I will be watching at.
I'm looking forward to seeing those trailers running when I get my 2407 (if it ever comes out). Are they really that amazing then?
Spectre07
02-04-2006, 22:40
Used to be a time when buying a telly was so simple.
splobber
02-04-2006, 23:16
They are good, but the HD demo they run in John Lewis (http://www.thedvdforums.com/jump2.php?url=http://departmentstore.at/thedvdforums) on the Panasonic PX60 stirs my loins more. Roll on May for the PX600.
Used to be a time when buying a telly was so simple.Too right. I'm looking to buy a LCD tv later this year and thought that ensuring it was HD and had one of those HDMI connectors was all you need know, now I've noticed people discussing 720p's and 1080p's etc. I'm confused all over again.
Yeah it is very confusing - thanks for all the advice people!
So are there good 1080i sets out yet? Splobber did you have one?
Spectre07
03-04-2006, 17:48
I'm thinking of replacing my TV sometime next year, hopefully 'the dust will have settled' regarding the new format, all HD telly's will have HDMI and 1080p will be the norm. I hope by then all I've got to worry about is my budget and not whether my purchase is future proofed.
I think LCD, Plasma and DLP all look terrible.
With LCD you have wishy washy colours, Plasma gives you image noise, and DLP reminds me of the old rear projection sets. Of the three technologies, if I had to choose one, i'd go for DLP.
However, whats happening with this SED tech thats supposed to end them all?
1080p seems to me like they decided to introduce a 'premier format HD' that they can sell to the really hardcore home cinema types (the ones who will spend 100s of pounds on cabling). It doesn't seem likely that anything but the high def DVD formats will have the bandwidth to support it for quite a while and the cheapest 1080p projector costs about 16 grand!
xraystan
04-04-2006, 12:46
I think LCD, Plasma and DLP all look terrible.
With LCD you have wishy washy colours, Plasma gives you image noise, and DLP reminds me of the old rear projection sets. Of the three technologies, if I had to choose one, i'd go for DLP.
However, whats happening with this SED tech thats supposed to end them all?
Obviously you've never seend a half decent Plasma TV.
EDIT: My plasma does 1080i and 720p, the 1080p's at around £6k were a little over budget.
Ben Martin
04-04-2006, 13:22
1080p seems to me like they decided to introduce a 'premier format HD' that they can sell to the really hardcore home cinema typesi agree with the second part of your post, but to my knowledge, 1080p has been part of the whole HDTV 'spec'/concept since it was first being planned for use in the US tv market.
furthermore, it is often referred to - by those in the industry, reviewers and consumers alike - as "True HD". so it would be more accurate to view 1080i and 720p as inferior, scaled-down alternatives to true high-definition, rather than 1080p as a premier version of 1080i/720p.
of course, that's not to say that 1080i and 720p aren't both an excellent step up from standard def in the meantime.
Napoleon
04-04-2006, 13:34
Sony is releasing the SXRD which is supposed to be 'full' high definition,but they will only be 55"/70";the morons do not intend to release a 42" version which will ignore the majority of the market for large screens.However after saying that on the avforums, the precious souls got very upset and ran to the hills shouting about a 70" television.Plonkers.
frazclay
04-04-2006, 19:21
There are plenty of 1080 screens coming in the next few months, but it seems none will be 1080p compatible. The Toshibas coming soon (WLT66) are 1080 but wont accept 1080p and there are models coming from JVC and Sony. It is likely that the sony x series may be 1080p compatible but they are 6 months off. But those are likely to be £3 +
Ive given up waiting for these now. Even when they are released the 1080p sets will be ££££££
And its only the bigger 42 and 47 inchers of the wlt66 with native 1080
Retronana
05-04-2006, 11:37
I've been in Chicago over the weekend and you would get the impression on the more high end AV forums that 1080p is widespread in the USA, this is clearly not the case....
I visited a massive Sears store will a massive range of DLP, LCD, and Plasma displays, of the 30 or so 42" + displays only 2 would handle 1080p and currently there are no broadcasts of 1080p material available in the USA.
All the 1080i stuff I saw looked very nice, I'm not sure 1080p will make that much difference.
Best this you can do at the moment is visit a store and try and see some HD footage on demo and see what looks looks good to you, there is a big difference between the "HD Ready" sets when you sit down and watch them.
Just because set A has an amazing native resolution doesn't necessarily mean it will look the best, the much criticised ALIAS processing delivers some very good pictures at a very good price, so keep an open mind
Obviously you've never seend a half decent Plasma TV.
Could you possibly name a half decent plasma TV, I would like to go an inspect one "in the flesh" as it were... :)
bollecks
05-04-2006, 17:30
Must admit I'm not worried about 1080.
I've seen plenty of hi-def demos on the current generation screens and it basically looks pin sharp on a 42 inch screen from anything more than two meters.
Unless you're going for a 50 or 60 inch screen I can't see it making much differnece.
splobber
05-04-2006, 17:40
Could you possibly name a half decent plasma TV, I would like to go an inspect one "in the flesh" as it were... :)
Panasonic TX42PX60
Splobber did you have one?
Not yet, but I will be purchasing the PX600 Panny set on its release. May go for the 50" model if the price is keen. I currently have a Dell 2405FPW widescreen monitor for all the Hi-Def stuff.
ccparkhill
05-04-2006, 23:02
The forthcoming Sharp LC-37GE1E (http://www.mentor-distribution.com/sharp/pdf/LC-37GE1E.pdf) is 1080p.
Given blu-ray and HD-DVD are 1080p I think it's the way to go.
I'm pretty sure that somebody reviewing a 1080p screen on Gizmodo said that at normal viewing distances he couldn't see the difference between 1080i and 1080p.
It was only when he got very close that he could see the improvement on the 1080p screen. A very interesting point I thought.
found it:
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/tuning-fork-160103.php
And that was a 1080p 65" screen!
Panasonic TX42PX60
I'm scratching my head again to work out the logic behind these "new" screens... :thinking:
Why are they 1024 X 768?
More double scaling image disasters loom with that "non-standard" hi def resolution in my estimation :|
Korben D
06-04-2006, 19:13
pioneer are releasing a 1080p screen
http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/content/press/news/PDP5000EX.html
bollecks
07-04-2006, 19:35
I'm pretty sure that somebody reviewing a 1080p screen on Gizmodo said that at normal viewing distances he couldn't see the difference between 1080i and 1080p.
It was only when he got very close that he could see the improvement on the 1080p screen. A very interesting point I thought.
found it:
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/tuning-fork-160103.php
And that was a 1080p 65" screen!
Yes, an awful lot of people seem to have missed the point that the reason there aren't many 37 and 42 inch 1080 screens is that no bugger can see the difference
ccparkhill
07-04-2006, 20:57
Yes, an awful lot of people seem to have missed the point that the reason there aren't many 37 and 42 inch 1080 screens is that no bugger can see the difference
Either way you need a 1080 x 1920 screen, so what difference does it make.
I could understand the point if comparing 1080p with 720p.
pioneer are releasing a 1080p screen
http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/content/press/news/PDP5000EX.html
I saw this model (or rather the prototype) at an electronics show two weeks ago, and it looked great; Blew away the current generation Panasonic (XX60's) and Pioneer 43 and 50"-ers (I do suspect Pioneer in general had done better work setting up and calibrating their screens, or had higher bitrate streams, as the Pana's to me looked quite a bit worse than the current Pioneers).
The PDP-5000EX on display was hardwired to a prototype BlueRay player, which had the tray locked, demo BR-DVD inside (only responded to play/pause/stop, no media info or anything).
ETA sometime this summer, prive expected around £7000 (in Norway).
zantarous
14-04-2006, 15:20
I'm pretty sure that somebody reviewing a 1080p screen on Gizmodo said that at normal viewing distances he couldn't see the difference between 1080i and 1080p.
NTSC judder? Those NTSC HD movies will look awful when panning.
Do a search for Philips Cineos tv's.
:thumbs:
Sam
DVDWotcha
27-04-2006, 14:00
pioneer are releasing a 1080p screen
http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/content/press/news/PDP5000EX.html
"Deep Waffle Rib Structure"
MMmmmm I'm feeling hungry now.. ;)
DVDWotcha
27-04-2006, 14:07
Do a search for Philips Cineos tv's.
:thumbs:
Sam
I presume you are meaning this set ?
http://www.consumer.philips.com/consumer/catalog/product.jsp?productId=42PF9830_10_GB_CONSUMER&activeTab=specifications&language=en&country=GB&catalogType=CONSUMER&proxybuster=V4QX1SBLTHSFBJ0RMRCSHP3HKFSESI5P
However, while useing a 1080p display it does not actually claim to accept a 1080p signal:
Video formats : 640 x 480i - 1Fh, 640 x 480p - 2Fh, 720 x 576i - 1Fh, 720 x 576p - 2Fh, 1280 x 720p - 3Fh, 1920 x 1080i - 2Fh
What this like;
http://www.samsung.com/Products/TV/DLPTV/HLS5679WXXAA.asp
1080p 56" LED Engine Widescreen DLP® HDTV, pre-order in the states is at $2500 - is this tech any good?
Tastydirt
06-05-2006, 00:47
Crikey, is that Samsung really as thin as it looks?
El Gigante
06-05-2006, 19:35
No, it's been 'shopped' to remove the back bit, if you go to the datasheet it's got a pic of the proper thing (same angle, so you can see what was removed). It's about 3-4 times thicker than what it appears to be on the main page.
All-in-all, it looks like a stunning TV, I wonder what the retail price is.
All-in-all, it looks like a stunning TV, I wonder what the retail price is.
Not sure about when and if it'll reach the UK, but USA stores have it on pre-order for $2500.
btw depth of the TV is 15.3" according to the PDF on Samsung web site
fildiablo
15-05-2006, 11:22
There are plenty of 1080 screens coming in the next few months, but it seems none will be 1080p compatible. The Toshibas coming soon (WLT66) are 1080 but wont accept 1080p and there are models coming from JVC and Sony. It is likely that the sony x series may be 1080p compatible but they are 6 months off. But those are likely to be £3 +
Ive given up waiting for these now. Even when they are released the 1080p sets will be ££££££
do you really, really think that they may be more than £3
i might get one :nuts:
Grandmaster
15-05-2006, 11:28
NTSC judder? Those NTSC HD movies will look awful when panning.
Both 1080i and 1080p will have judder. That's what happens when you run 24fps material on a screen updating 60 times per second.
I saw the Toshiba 47WLT66 in Comet (http://www.thedvdforums.com/jump2.php?url=http://www.dgm2.com/m/cometnew/t.asp?A=33130&I=12642&c=http://www.comet.co.uk/comet/html/cache/455_317993.html) yesterday. It's a 1920X1080 resolution 47" LCD. I didn't get to see it on but it's got the specs. Priced at £3,499.99 online. I see on the website they also have the 42" version (http://www.comet.co.uk/comet/html/cache/455_318000.html) at £2,299, still expensive but not to bad considering your getting proper HD.
The 32 and 37" versions have a resolution of 1366x768.
Please affiliate these links where applicable.
kiran_mk2
16-05-2006, 11:04
But does it accept a 1080p signal? Lots of 1080p panels only accept a 1080i signal!
I really don't know Kiran. The guy in Comet assured me it did but ...well he works for Comet so...
Edit to add this from the Tosh euro site.
42WLT66 specs (http://www.home-entertainment.toshiba.co.uk/consumer/products.nsf/pages/lcdplasma-lcdfreeview-42wlt66?opendocument)
edit the edit to say...I just rang the Toshiba support line and the guy said it does not support 1080p....he added by saying that Toshiba will not be releasing a 1080p set untill 2007 when they start shipping their SED (Surface-conduction Electron-emitter Display (http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/sed_tvs.htm)) sets.
I think I'll wait. :thumbs:
Both 1080i and 1080p will have judder. That's what happens when you run 24fps material on a screen updating 60 times per second.
I would have to aggree and add that even "film" at the cinema judders, so it does not improve that much when converted to any video standard, I still can't get my head around why the industry is still keeping with film as 24fps.
Personaly I want to see a "progressive" picture, and 1080p if it's affordable. I'm worried that broadcast TV and blue-lazer-DVD will only give us 1080i max. As far as I know HD-DVD does not include 1080p in it's specification yet (not enough capacity).
I have hated interlaced video ever since watching SD-DVD's on a large projector. When the picture is still or slow moving it is fine, but a panning shot or quick action you see the effect of the two seperate fields (smearing) and basicaly the vertical resolution halves.
IMHO
kippertron
16-05-2006, 19:58
According to dvdtimes, the HD-DVDs Warner Bros. are releasing will be 1080p.
I don't notice any judder on my 23" HD Apple display when playing HD trailers at 24p, and I'm a picky mo-fo.
In fact, would it be possible to play Blu-Ray or HD-DVD into a 23" (or even 30") Apple display instead of a regular plasma or LCD?
Anyone got any ideas?
ccparkhill
16-05-2006, 20:24
It depends if there's copy protection, it there is you'll need an HDCP enabled DVI port.
So the current panel sizes are:
1920X1080
1366x768
Cos, I found this 1920X1080 32" LCD at ClearDragon (http://www.cleardragon.com/televisions/cdtv42_053/eclipse) Its just £799.
compared that to the Samsung 32" (http://www.cleardragon.com/televisions/samsung32) which is a 1366x768 set, which is more expensive.
Ive read that 1080i can look good on a 1366x768 set, if the scaler is good, as can 720p look good on a 1920X1080 set with a good scaler.
So, my question is which size do people reccomend getting?
A set with the best rez or a good quality 720p with lots of connection options?
This HD lark is so confusing (and pricey) you cant really afford to make a mistake with a poor choice of purchase.
Personally i'm waiting until i find a 47"-50" 1920X1080 panel that does 1080p with a great scaler for under £2000. i know that won't happen for about 12months but then i know i will be future proof
zapbrannigan
09-06-2006, 13:50
To appreciate 1920 x 1080 progressive you need a screen that's 46" or greater - the extra detail is lost on the "smaller" screens because eyesight can't discern the extra detail 3 - 4 meters from the screen. Unless you intend to sit really close like 1 meter away from a 40"....
I can tell my 40" LCD is interlaced when viewing 1080i, so having a 40" 1080p TV would be an improvement to me. Its obvious its interlaced when you bring up the search and scan banner and the interlacing flickers a bit for a fraction of a second.
I can tell my 40" LCD is interlaced when viewing 1080i, so having a 40" 1080p TV would be an improvement to me. Its obvious its interlaced when you bring up the search and scan banner and the interlacing flickers a bit for a fraction of a second.
Any interlaced display is going to suffer some level of difficulty with horizontal lines. A more useful measure would be the perceived difference between 720p and 1080p on a 40" display. Which will be negligible at normal viewing distances.
Any interlaced display is going to suffer some level of difficulty with horizontal lines. A more useful measure would be the perceived difference between 720p and 1080p on a 40" display. Which will be negligible at normal viewing distances.
Well I think 1080i looks better on my 768 LCD than 720p does and I can tell that 1080i is interlaced, a progressive 1080 signal would mean that I wouldn't notice the interlacing, hence 1080p will be better on my 40" LCD than 720p.
If its going to have difficulty with 1080i and 1080p will negate these difficulties than I cannot see how you can state there will be no difference.
Without a doubt I would notice the difference.
GAmbrose
12-06-2006, 13:53
Your LCD only does 768 vertical resolution and yet 1080i looks better?
Gary A
I Have a Sharp Aquos 45GD1E Which is Native 1080i (bought it last year for about £2500) I have been reliably told by a Techie Friend at Sharp in Japan that it should also support 1080p. (Not sure if it will require a hardware upgrade or firmware change if anything at all)
I have also been told that Blu-ray will be 1080p but only 30fps and not 60.
BTW. My LCD does not look washed out and it beats the pants off any plasma I have seen (including the 50" NECs we use at work )
Your LCD only does 768 vertical resolution and yet 1080i looks better?
Gary A
Yes it does, any 1080i source I throw at it looks better viewed on a 768 as 1080i rather than 720p.
As expected really.
Well I think 1080i looks better on my 768 LCD than 720p does and I can tell that 1080i is interlaced, a progressive 1080 signal would mean that I wouldn't notice the interlacing, hence 1080p will be better on my 40" LCD than 720p.
If its going to have difficulty with 1080i and 1080p will negate these difficulties than I cannot see how you can state there will be no difference.
Without a doubt I would notice the difference.
I think that's a given - nobody who spends the extra ££££ on a 1080p screen is ever going to say it looks the same as 720p ;)
For individual screens, it probably comes down to the quality of software and hardware and personal preference - your TV simply works better in 1080i, others may excel at 720p. My point was, that all things being equal, the eye simply cannot detect much difference between 720p and 1080p on a 40" TV at a reasonable viewing distance. The brain, of course, sees as much difference as it wants...
It's all going to come down to marketing and I think that within a year anything not 1080 line will be perceived as inferior (rather like non-HD ready screens now).
Whether you can see the difference between 720 line and 1080 line won't count for much - marketing rules and 1080 will be sold as "true HD" or "full HD" or some other phrase which makes 720/768 line screens look substandard.
My camcorder already uses the Phrase "FULL HD" on it as it is a 1080 60i one.
Had a look at the new Sony X series display in John Lewis today.
Whilst the source material was a little patchy, there was no doubting the quality of the 1080p display in my eyes.
Ben Martin
04-07-2006, 16:28
The brain, of course, sees as much difference as it wants...it isn't just the brain though. surely people with better eyesight are more likely to notice the difference, or notice a greater difference?
for example, last time i had my eyes tested i scored two levels above 20/20 vision. you can score a lot lower than that and still not need glasses, let alone for TV viewing. when i watch HD material on my 24" 1920x1080 TFT from six to eight feet away i can clearly see the difference between 720p and 1080p. 720p still looks fantastic, but 1080p is undeniably better - especially when it comes to fine detail such as strands of hair.
of course, none of that negates the point about people seeing what they want to see/what marketing pressure tells them to see. but the weight that is starting to build behind that idea on this thread is starting to become an over-generalisation.
some people can, and do, legitimately see the difference. even on smaller screens or when the perceived size of the screen (based on distance) is below the spurious 40" asserted above.
when i watch HD material on my 24" 1920x1080 TFT from six to eight feet away i can clearly see the difference between 720p and 1080p. 720p still looks fantastic, but 1080p is undeniably better - especially when it comes to fine detail such as strands of hair.
I have a theory for this. :thinking:
If you use 1080p files, then you screen (or PC) does not have to "scale" the image. Using a 720p file the screen (or PC) has to do a load of scaling work that could be what is intoducing all sorts of nasties.
Recently I posted on this thread about interlaced pictures smearing on camera movement. I'm not sure this is relavant for LCD/Plasma viewing, as all of these displays first convert the image to progressive as thats all they can work with. (see http://hometheatermag.com/gearworks/1105gearworks/)
i.e. All flat panel screens show progressive pictures, but by feeding them interlaced files they have to convert them (sometimes badly) first.
I have a theory for this. :thinking:
If you use 1080p files, then you screen (or PC) does not have to "scale" the image. Using a 720p file the screen (or PC) has to do a load of scaling work that could be what is intoducing all sorts of nasties.
Recently I posted on this thread about interlaced pictures smearing on camera movement. I'm not sure this is relavant for LCD/Plasma viewing, as all of these displays first convert the image to progressive as thats all they can work with. (see http://hometheatermag.com/gearworks/1105gearworks/)
i.e. All flat panel screens show progressive pictures, but by feeding them interlaced files they have to convert them (sometimes badly) first.
This stuff is so display dependent - each screen and source will process the signal in a different way and be better at displaying different resolutions and refresh rates. Which, in turn, will feed endless arguments like this one :thumbs:
when i watch HD material on my 24" 1920x1080 TFT from six to eight feet away i can clearly see the difference between 720p and 1080p. 720p still looks fantastic, but 1080p is undeniably better - especially when it comes to fine detail such as strands of hair.
Is that a PC monitor? If so, then I could certainly buy the PC scaling argument.
If I was designing an HD display device that did 1080p, I'd sure as hell make sure that it didn't look as clear when it showed 720p, even if that meant deliberately downgrading the performance. Oh oh, I'm being cynical again...
Ben Martin
05-07-2006, 14:07
yes, it's a DELL 2405. the panel is particularly good, made by samsung.
mdiver, i see what you're saying and basically agree with it all (with the caveat added above by neeek). however, my point about the fine detail just related to the greater resolution of 1080p. so all other things being equal, it's no wonder elements like hair appear even more detailed. in the same way UHDV can render detail that 1080p could only dream of.
and going back to your post at the top of this page, HD-DVD does offer 1080p. kippertron's comment about warner releasing 1080p HD-DVDs is correct, and they already have done. the confusion stems from the fact that the first HD-DVD players released only support 720p/1080i, not the HD-DVD format itself.
and it certainly isn't anything to do with capacity either. it is worth noting that at the moment HD-DVD leads Blu-Ray in capacity. 30GB dual-layer HD-DVDs are reality whereas the Blu-Ray still can't get their 50GB dual-layer discs out of the lab, and until then the format is limited to "only" 25GB. obviously Blu-Ray will have the greater capacity in time, but not yet.
yes, it's a DELL 2405. the panel is particularly good, made by samsung.
mdiver, i see what you're saying and basically agree with it all (with the caveat added above by neeek). however, my point about the fine detail just related to the greater resolution of 1080p. so all other things being equal, it's no wonder elements like hair appear even more detailed. in the same way UHDV can render detail that 1080p could only dream of.
I never had any argument about the fact that 1080p will deliver more detail that 720p. My point was merely that the detail shouldn't be noticable at normal viewing distances on a smaller screen. Your experience seems to indicate that it is noticeable.
I think we'll need to wait for more 1080p devices to really settle this one, but I maintain that the market will be very keen to sell 1080p screens to people who already have 'HD-ready' sets, even if they will get very little benefit from the upgrade.
vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.