SFF PC with Dual Core and PCI Slots?

[Grandmaster]

Hi there,

I'm looking to get a small form factor PC like a Shuttle and require dual core functionality, SATA-II support and crucially PCI slots.

Can any one recommend an SFF PC that accomodates all three? I could most likely get along without the SATA-II, but dual core support and at least one PCI slot is essential.

[Dan]

I would wait until a Yonah SFF PC comes out as that will be very quiet to run.

[Grandmaster]

The problem I am seeing though is that the likes of the Shuttle are doing away with the PCI slot in favour of SLI graphics card support. So far the best I've been able to find is the Fragbox, but that's US-only and hugely, stupidly expensive.

[belly]

you could try something like the silverstone sff cases and a m-atx board?

[Grandmaster]

Hi there, thanks for the reply. I'm suspecting I'll have to go down this route now, yes. The Fragbox follows a similar route of using Micro-ATX.

Any recommendations for a dual core (preferably Intel) Micro-ATX motherboard with SATA-II and PCI slots?

[maubp]

I'm looking for a dual processor machine, and right now the Core 2 Duo looks like the best choice. But I really want a SFF machine...

You can get a Shuttle SD31P (http://www.sudhian.com/index.php?/articles/show/Shuttle_SD31P_XPC_Review_-_Intel_Dual_Core_SFF/) which will take a Core Duo, but I'm told it won't handle a Core 2 Duo. For that you need to wait for something like the SD37P2 (http://www.sudhian.com/index.php?/articles/show/shuttle_sd37p2_review/) which isn't available yet.

There is also their new Shuttle X100 (http://www.sfftech.com/index.php?/articles/show/920/2) which should take the Intel Core 2 Duo Merom processors, but it looks like its not available as a “bare bones” unit.

There are several Shuttle machines which take AMD's old Socket 939 but only one or two with the new Socket AM2 which would be a better choice for the long term... (Namely the expensive SN27P2 (http://www.anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.aspx?i=2788) and hopefully soon the SK22G2 (http://www.sudhian.com/index.php?/news/comments/shuttle_launches_xpc_sk22g2/) which should be cheaper)

[Grandmaster]

Holy thread resurrection! :eek:

I bought the Silverstone SG01 in the end and had a very nice motherboard that can run S939, SLI *and* a PCI slot. However, at 10kg it was rather heavy so these days use a Shuttle ST20G5 which is ultra-tiny and has the requisite PCI slot. Even overclocked to 2.4GHz, an Athlon X2 4400 will only top out at 58 degrees centigrade, pretty much the same as the Silverstone system (which was not OCed - because it couldn't!).

Shuttle SD31P will run Pentium Ds but will not take Core 2 Duo. Shuttle X100 has no graphics or PCI or PCI-e expandability, so might serve as a media server (you can put a 3.5" hard disk in there for up to 750gb of storage).

The system to look out for, as you say, is the Shuttle SD37P2 (http://sys.us.shuttle.com/Scgsupport/barebone/sd37p2.html). ATI Crossfire and Core 2 Duo ready and should even run the quad core Kentsfield chip when that eventually appears. There's a review here (http://www.sfftech.com/index.php?/articles/show/shuttle_sd37p2_review/) which essentially says it's great but 64-bit support is a bit flakey and sound is barely average.

It's gonna be pricey though so as long as you can wait for AMD to bring out a decent AM2 processor, SK22G2 might be a better option.

[maubp]

That was the same review of the SD37P2 btw, www.sudhian.com and www.sfftech.com belong to the same people ;)

I'm ruling out the SD37P2 (with a Core 2 duo) and the SN29P2 (with an AM2 chip) on the grounds of price. I'm currently wondering about waiting for the SK22G to come out, or getting an AMD socket 939 box instead.

See also this thread (http://www.sudhian.com/index.php?/forums/viewthread/93105/).

My short list is now the SN95G5V3, SN21G5 or the ST20G5 (which you went for) with 2gb of RAM and a AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ S939 (or similar, depending on the price).

While this will be a lot cheaper, the downside is this isn't so future proof (socket 939 rather than AM2), and these machines are all limited to 2gb of RAM.

Why did you go for the SN21G5 in then end? Was it the silver colour or due to the on board graphics?

[Grandmaster]

I went for the ST20G5 because it had a PCI slot and was an established product with a proven BIOS. It also allowed me to transfer over ALL of my current components and I have half a PC left over that I can kit out with a dirt cheap CPU and sell on. I was intrigued by the SN21G5, but it appeared to have severe cooling issues with my Athlon X2 4400+ CPU.

At some point I will be upgrading my whole system to Core 2 Duo, and will get the SD37P2. However, there are rumblings that this time next year, the AM2 CPUs will be very strong contenders to Core 2 Duo so SK22G2 might be a good option.

[maubp]

I've found a few German sites listing the SK22G already (Socket AM2 suitable for the newest AMD chips), from 185 Euros. Most seem to be pre-orders with no due date, but one says (http://www.cyberport.de/item/5994/1028/0/75657/Shuttle_SK22G2_XPC_SockAM2_Barebone_IGMLANSATAVGA_VIA_K8.html?APID=6) "Presumably available starting from 17.08.2006" after a little AltaVista translation.

I might be able to hold on a little longer :)

[Grandmaster]

I think that's a smart move :)

[maubp]

One possible downside, the SK22G has onboard S3 DeltaChrome graphics and it sounds like Linux drivers are only "promised" (http://www.linuxhardware.org/article.pl?sid=03/09/26/0051215&mode=thread). Which might be a pain as I wanted to run Linux. Still, I suppose that is the best you can resonably expect for a very new chipset.

[maubp]

With hindsight I would have only had to wait a couple of weeks to get the SK22G (http://global.shuttle.com/Product/Barebone/SK22G2-Spec.asp) - (one PCI, one PCI-express slot) its out now in the UK and very reasonably priced.

I went for an older socket 939 system, the SN95G5V3, which shipped with an old version of the BIOS which didn't like the AMD 64 X2 4600+ Manchester core I bought to go in it. To cut a long story short, I had to borrow an old single core athlon to boot it up, and flash the BIOS.

All seems to be working now, running Ubuntu 6.06.1, in 64 bit :)

If I had waited, the SK22G would be a much more "future proof" machine - capable of taking newer AMD chips and up to 4 gigs of RAM. I doubt AMD will release any more top end 939 chips, and I've already got the max 2 gig of RAM installed.

On the plus side, I think the black G5 cases look much nicer than the black G2 cases.