Help on setup, speakers, connections etc...

[Dave B]

I had a fairly good setup last year but decided to sell up. I have now started to rebuild another setup and could do with some help.

My original setup was a Audiolab 8000S, Marantz KI-Sig CD, Yamaha DSPE492, Harmon Kardon DD Decoder, AudioPro Active Sub, B&W 601 fronts, JBL MR Centre and Eltax HT2 Bipolar rears.

The only things I didn't sell was the Sub, Yamaha and Audiolab. I have now bought a Sherwood 925DD amp from these forums. My brother has lent me a pair of RTL 2's for the front and I have nicked the speakers off my wife's midi system for the rears. I have the Audiolab in power amp mode and running pre-outs from the Sherwood into it. The front speakers are connected to the Audiolab, this is so when playing music I can just have the Audiolab on. At the moment with movies, it sounds like crap, no where near the sound I did have. The source for movies is my PS2 and Laserdisc player.

I am think of either -

Buying a cheap cinema speaker package from RS, something like Gale Movie Star, Eltax Hollywood or Liberty. Keep the components how they are connected at the moment and give the RTL2's back.

Or

Buying a small set of cinema speakers like Limit HT5.1 etc... then seperating the connection between the Audiolab and Sherwood and basically having two systems one for music and one for movies.

Or

Buying all the speakers I use to own and basically running the same setup but with a Sherwood instead of the Yamaha. I noticed RS are selling the Eltax HT2 rears I use to own for £80 and I am sure I could easily pick some 601's.

My perfect system would be say a nice tiny set of speakers on the Sherwood and some Studio Monitor 20SE's on the Audiolab, in piano finish of course.

Also is there any way I could or should be using the Yamaha ?

Thanks in advance for any help/advice.

Dave

[Dave B]

Anyone ?

[Ragnar]

First thing, & you aren't going to like this. dump the Sherwood amp, & go back to the Yamaha processor, run phono leads from the tape in & out of the Yamaha to the Audiolab, this will leave the Audiolab to power the front stereo speakers & the Yamaha to power the centre & rears.

For speakers I would go for a speaker package say something like one of the Missions of you could try the Kef Cresta range, Richer sounds were doing a good deal on these recently.
This will give you a better tonal balance across the speakers.


Ooopss! :eek:
Come to think of it, isn't the Yamaha pro-logic only? if it is, then follow my advice above but replace the Yamaha with the Sherwood.

[Dave B]

Originally posted by ragnar
First thing, & you aren't going to like this. dump the Sherwood amp, & go back to the Yamaha processor, run phono leads from the tape in & out of the Yamaha to the Audiolab, this will leave the Audiolab to power the front stereo speakers & the Yamaha to power the centre & rears.

The Yamaha is a processor so it only does the Center and Rear anyway, it has main-out's for the fronts.

Come to think of it, isn't the Yamaha pro-logic only? if it is, then follow my advice above but replace the Yamaha with the Sherwood.

Yeah the Yamaha is pro-logic only and has two 6 channel inputs.

So basically leave it as it is, but buy a 5 speaker setup.

Is there no problem then with having the Audiolab powering the front speakers and the sherwood powering the rest. When I say problem, I mean tonal balance etc...

thanks,

Dave

[Ragnar]

Originally posted by Dave B



So basically leave it as it is, but buy a 5 speaker setup.

Is there no problem then with having the Audiolab powering the front speakers and the sherwood powering the rest. When I say problem, I mean tonal balance etc...

thanks,

Dave

There shouldn't be any problem with using the Audiolab for front duties, as long as the speakers are tonally matched, & the Audiolab will be much better than the Sherwood for stereo duties.

If you prefer the pro-logic sound of the Yamaha to the Sherwood's, the Yamaha can be incorperated into the system, let me know if you want to do this, & I will tell you how.

[Dave B]

Originally posted by ragnar
If you prefer the pro-logic sound of the Yamaha to the Sherwood's, the Yamaha can be incorperated into the system, let me know if you want to do this, & I will tell you how.

Not sure if I want to do this or not but I would be interested in knowing how ?

Thanks again,

Dave

[MikeK]

Maybe I've missed something, but it appears that you are running without a centre speaker, and possibly also with poor rear speakers.

I doubt the system would sound too convincing anyway in phantom centre mode, but if that's how it must be, then check you've set the Sherwood for "no centre speaker", or it will be decoding the centre channel and presenting it onto the centre speaker outputs. Setting it for for no centre will cause it to redirect the centre's output to the front L&R, aka phantom mode.

Of course, getting a centre speaker would be a better idea.
Also I have no idea what the midi system speakers are like (although few midi systems have good ones), so repacing those at some point maight be an idea too.

Reasonable centre speakers can be bought from £50-£100 at places like Richer Sounds.
They do the Mission 70c1 at £50, the Kef Cresta at £60 and the Mission 77c1 at £100, plus a host of others too (the Eltax Liberty centre is pretty good at £100 too).

Rears run anything from £30-40 (something like JPW ML310) upwards.


Lastly, unless you have an RF modulator on the Sherwood, you'll probably only be getting ProLogic from that (no idea if the Sherwood has one though), as I don't think the 925 can do DTS.
Also check that the PS2 is connected to the the Sherwood with a digital audio connection, or it'll be downmixed ProLogic from that too (which loses the LFE channel altogether)

[Dave B]

Yes I have Sherwood in Phantom center mode (no center).

The rears are pretty poor quality esp. with a DD soundtrack.

The Sherwood does have a RF input for my LD, that was the main reason for buying it.

The PS2 is connected with a optical lead and set to output in DD etc...

I know I need a good set of speakers all round, but am not sure to try and source simular speakers to what I had or go and buy a 5 speaker package.

Thanks,

Dave

[Ragnar]

Originally posted by Dave B


Not sure if I want to do this or not but I would be interested in knowing how ?

Thanks again,

Dave


Right!
Connect up the 6 channel output of the Sherwood to the 6 ch imput of the Yamaha,using 3 pairs of stereo phono to phono leads, then connect the front stereo outputs to the Audiolab,connect the front stereo speakers to the Audiolab & connect up the centre & rear speakers to the Yamaha.
The subwoofer plugs into the subwoofer pre-out on the Yamaha.
When you want to listen to pro-logic, switch the Yamaha to pro-logic mode, when you want to listen to DD 5.1, switch the Sherwood to DD 5.1 mode & the Yamaha to bypass mode.

If you go down this route, use some decent phono to phono leads, say £15 - £20 each. :eek:

[MikeK]

Originally posted by Dave B
Yes I have Sherwood in Phantom center mode (no center).

The rears are pretty poor quality esp. with a DD soundtrack.

The Sherwood does have a RF input for my LD, that was the main reason for buying it.

The PS2 is connected with a optical lead and set to output in DD etc...

I know I need a good set of speakers all round, but am not sure to try and source simular speakers to what I had or go and buy a 5 speaker package.

Thanks,

Dave


I suppose it all depends on how much you have/want to spend.

If the TDL speakers sound OK, then you could keep them and just buy a centre which matches OK. They are getting on a bit now though - I suppose it depends on how good condition they are in, and what you mean by "your brother lent them to you" :)

At risk of upsetting B&W 600 series owners, there's as good or better available for less money these days (the 600 series has just been revamped though, to the S3, but the price has gone up yet again).
Don't get me wrong, they are decent speakers (at least the S2s were), it's just that IMO they are overpriced for the performance and finish you get.
I also didn't think that much of the Eltax HT2 bipolar rears either for the price, but they were £150 back when I heard them, so perhaps at £80 they are better value than then. Not really up to DD/DTS though IMO.

Richers are doing the Mission 77 series on special at the moment.
A pair of 772 and a 77c1 centre would hit you for £220.
Mission 700 at £50 would be fine for rears IMO, but the 771 is on offer at £100 if you wanted to match. The other alternative would be the 77DS, bipolar surrounds at around £150 or the new M7DS bipoles at £125ish.
Personally not a massive fan of the bipole speakers I've heard for the money - they are equalled or bettered by direct speakers costing much less, and they have only a marginally diffuse effect IMO.
They are very easy to hang on the wall though, and are perhaps a good choice if your settee is backed up to the same wall your rear speakers are on.

But there's plenty of choice available in a variety of styles and finishes, prices and sound qualities - pick something you like on all fronts, and you won't go far wrong.

[Dave B]

Thanks to both MikeK and ragnar, I am going to connect the Yamamha up just to see what the difference is in sound etc... and am off to Liverpool at the weekend to have a good look and listen to some speakers.

Dave

[pjweston]

FYI I used to run a Sherwood 925 with an Audiolab 8000A driving the front L/R speakers. With 5 decent speakers it sounded fine (although the Sherwood is a bit bright/ aggressive for my taste).

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve by wiring the Yamaha in. The Yamaha was a decent basic ProLogic decoder in its day but from what I remember it was only ever reckoned to be comparable to budget AV amps like the 925. By all means try the Yamaha but while doing so, ask yourself whether or not the difference in sound quality really justifies all those extra leads, remotes etc.

Finally, note that the 925 has a bug in its implementation of DD2.0 - it doesn't route the DD2.0 signal through the ProLogic decoder. This means that when you play a DD2.0 DVD you tend to get a horrible 'hole-in-the-middle' effect. The solution is to ensure that you've got an analogue audio connection from DVD to 925 and simply switch to that input for DD2.0 DVDs.

[Dave B]

Originally posted by pjweston
FYI I used to run a Sherwood 925 with an Audiolab 8000A driving the front L/R speakers. With 5 decent speakers it sounded fine (although the Sherwood is a bit bright/ aggressive for my taste).

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve by wiring the Yamaha in. The Yamaha was a decent basic ProLogic decoder in its day but from what I remember it was only ever reckoned to be comparable to budget AV amps like the 925. By all means try the Yamaha but while doing so, ask yourself whether or not the difference in sound quality really justifies all those extra leads, remotes etc.

Finally, note that the 925 has a bug in its implementation of DD2.0 - it doesn't route the DD2.0 signal through the ProLogic decoder. This means that when you play a DD2.0 DVD you tend to get a horrible 'hole-in-the-middle' effect. The solution is to ensure that you've got an analogue audio connection from DVD to 925 and simply switch to that input for DD2.0 DVDs.

Am not sure what I want to achieve either, am just a bit unhappy as my last system sounded excellent. I suppose when I get a decent set speakers it will improve no end.

Thanks,

Dave