The final scenes of One Flew Over the Cukoos Nest - SPOILERS INSIDE

[pythons]

Guys I have just recently watched One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest and I have a couple of questions regarding the end of the movie.

I will enclose the message in spoiler tags for the benefit of those who havent seen the moive and have ignored the spoiler warning in the title of this thread.


Int he very end when he comes back from 'upstairs' and he has been operated on to his head what is this all about? What have they done to him?

I have seen this kind of procedure referenced in several movies but never actually figured out what they do? Do they remove part of the brain to turn him into a vegetable?

This is also dne in the origianl Planet of the Apes to one f the ilots if you remember.

Is anyone able to shed any light on this? I actually found it really disturbing.

Does this kind of thing go on? Or has it ever gone on? Surley they arent allowed to carry out un necessary operations?


Any info would be much apreciated as I am in the dark a little bit, I'm looking forward to hearing peoples opinions though.

Cheers
Mark

[Gozer]

Long time since I've seen this but...
They did a lobotomy on him. MacMurphy had nothing wrong with him but the bitch warden didn't like him that really ****** me off!!!
Great movie, is the R2 disc anamorphic?

[pythons]

Originally posted by Gozer
Long time since I've seen this but...
They did a lobotomy on him. MacMurphy had nothing wrong with him but the bitch warden didn't like him that really ****** me off!!!
Great movie, is the R2 disc anamorphic?


Labotomy, this is a term I have heard before but never really known what it involved. It seems rather barbaric to say the least.

I looked this up from Dictionary.com:

lo·bot·o·my (l-bt-m, l-)
n. pl. lo·bot·o·mies
Surgical incision into the frontal lobe of the brain to sever one or more nerve tracts, a technique formerly used to treat certain mental disorders but now rarely performed.

Do you know any more about the procedure? Why it was done etc? How they thought it helped? I know that McMurphy didnt require it, but now it's kind of pushed a curiosity button.

That warden woman was a total bitch.. grr.. she looked familar? What else has she been in?


Oh and with regard to Anamorphic.. um.. as far as I can remember yes, but it suffers from the sides of the screen being cropped a little bit, which is most notable during the opening titles scenes.

Any more info about my question would be great!!

Thanks
Mark

[Gozer]

All I know is what you've said. A barbaric procedure where they cut out a bit of your brain to "cure" some mental illnesses. This film really made me hate the system for this kind of ****. My mum would probably know more than me about this, she works in mental health, but shes gone to bed.

If I remember correctly the nurse was in Once Upon a Time in America but had her role cut from the final four hour film, according to my Empire Top 100 videos you should own.

[pythons]

Originally posted by Gozer
All I know is what you've said. A barbaric procedure where they cut out a bit of your brain to "cure" some mental illnesses. This film really made me hate the system for this kind of ****.

I know what you mean.. :(

I would certainly be interested in any more info you have. I cant beleive that this kind of thing used to go on...:eek:

[Damage Inc]

I didn't actually realise he had a lobotomy. I thought that he had undergone such severe shock treatment that he now had brain damage, effectively turning him into a vegetable

[pythons]

Originally posted by Damage Inc
I didn't actually realise he had a lobotomy. I thought that he had undergone such severe shock treatment that he now had brain damage, effectively turning him into a vegetable


No, he has his head shaved back and two parellel scars on the top/front of his head...

What is the shock treatment all about anway? I saw this being used in Reqiem for a Dream, does anyone know about that?

[goof]

A 'frontal labotomy' to be exact. This is where the surgeon "ablates" (a nice word pyschologists use for "hacks") a section out of the dorso-lateral pre-frontal cortex.

This section is associated with mood, social behavour and goal directed behaviour in general. Basically, he's a vegetable.

An interesting real life example of this comes from the tale of 19th century rail-road worker Phineas Gage - Phineas used to tap dynamite detonators with a metal rod to set off the explosion. One day poor 'ol Phineas stood right over the thing...an explosion incurred, blowing the metre long pole up under his chin, straight through his bonce and 20 ft into the air out the other side. He lived for many years surprisingly but had major bahvioural defects.


Phew, I new 4 years studying psychology would be useful one day :rolleyes:

[pjn]

some of the earliest lobotomies happened in europe where two holes would be cut in the top of the skull and wires inserted. the connections between the front of the brain and the rest were cut, leaving the patient in a state of permanent ambivalence.

various "doctors" refine the procedure over the years, and it became particularly popular in the US, being practised widely until the late fifties.

one of the ways in which it was performed was to go through the nasal cavity, smashing the bone and mashing up the front lobe of the brain.

i dont recall his name, but the US surgeon who was the operation's biggest advocate refined it to the point where it was seen as no bigger a deal than visiting a dentist. he performed the procedure on literally thousands of normal people (people who would now be described as depressed and given tranquilizers). he used an ice pick (the same every time), pushing it into the corner of the eyes, pointing it upwards. a quick whack with a mallet on either side and robert is your mother's brother.

the whole point was to make people docile and malleable.

we have tv now instead.




hope this helps.

[Paul2]

Originally posted by goof
A 'frontal labotomy' to be exact...

.....Phew, I new 4 years studying psychology would be useful one day :rolleyes:

Or a 'frontal lobotomy' to be pedantic :D

pjn's brief historical overview is pretty accurate. Just to add, although it was most widely practised in the USA (astonishingly reaching a peak of a several hundred procedures a month in the middle of the last century), it was far from uncommon in the UK.

In answer to python's question re. the use of 'shock' therapy (aka ECT=Electroconvulsive therapy), it involves passing a brief electic current through the brain (via electrodes, usually placed on both temples) to stimulate a brief seizure. Unlike its portrayal in most films, the patient is put under a short-acting general anaesthetic (administered by an anaesthetist) and given a muscle relaxant so that their body doesn't shake. The whole thing takes about 5-10 minutes, and a typical course might be 2-3 sessions per week for about 2-3 weeks.

Most common use is as a last-line treatment in severe or life-threatening depression (where it can be remarkable effective), severe mania, and, incredibly rarely nowadays, profound catatnic schizophrenia. Its use has declined steadily over the last decade, partly due to more acceptable pharmacological treatments and partly due to its bad image.

[ac]

Originally posted by Damage Inc
I didn't actually realise he had a lobotomy. I thought that he had undergone such severe shock treatment that he now had brain damage, effectively turning him into a vegetable

Haven't seen the film for a while, but I'm sure this is what happened in the book (although I haven't read that for a while either).

[Damage Inc]

Just rewatched that scene and realised

he has had what looks like 2 frontal lobotomies, I think the music after it is brilliant, the sadness of the saw sounds like it is weeping. Then the silence as the credits roll.

[The Beyond]

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me
than a frontal lobotomy


:D

[AJT]

In reply to Pythons, the "bitch warden" was played by Louise Fletcher. One of the reasons she may look familiar to you is she played Kai Wynn in Deep Space Nine.

[Paul Bennison]

Originally posted by pjn
he used an ice pick (the same every time), pushing it into the corner of the eyes, pointing it upwards. a quick whack with a mallet on either side and robert is your mother's brother.

Note to self - don't eat while on the Forums as it can cause nausia. That is gross and the image in my mind will stay with me for a good ling time. :eek:

[pythons]

I's sounds pretty nasty anyway... I cant beleive this used to be common practice. :(

[goof]

Originally posted by Paul Bennison


Note to self - don't eat while on the Forums as it can cause nausia. That is gross and the image in my mind will stay with me for a good ling time. :eek:

Yes, but not as bad as when they stuck a syringe up the nose and squirted in acid :eek: Which btw is currently being practiced at a vetinary hospital on cats near you! :(



[quote][Or a 'frontal lobotomy' to be pedantic

Oooh, handbags at twenty paces :D
Actually it's not being pedantic - there's many different areas you could labotomise all with totally different and amazing effects.

[Paul2]

Originally posted by goof


Oooh, handbags at twenty paces :D
Actually it's not being pedantic - there's many different areas you could labotomise all with totally different and amazing effects.

Or 'lobotomise', to be pedantic ;)

[goof]

I am not ashamd buy thu fakt eye spell liek a fife yeer old child

:D