View Full Version : [ATTN ALL PES LEAGUE PLAYERS] How do you want to view the leagues
I've been talking to the mods today about my site mentioned in the other thread.
As it stands at the moment I've asked the mods if I can post links to the tables for our leagues on here and the answer is no because I was intending to have affiliates and adverts on my site to help cover the costs :(
I've emailed them back and asked them if I set up the site without affiliates/adverts and run the site strictly on a 'donations' operation only can I post links here - at the moment they're discussing it and will get back to me later.
Assuming the answer is no and I can't have any reference to my leagues website at all how do you guys want to play it? The way I see it they'll be 2 options.
1) Continue running the leagues as we have been using Ono's excellent spreadsheet to collate and order the leagues.
2) Run the leagues on my website. If the leagues are run on my site then we can't have any links to it from here - which may mean as they're being run off site the mods may remove the Pes Forum.
I'm a fair man so I'll let you guys decide how you'd rather play the leagues.
steviep922
29-10-2005, 15:32
What about if we have post a link to, for example, the xbox webpage we're currently using, but then on that page a link to your site. It would be a shame not to use it when you've put so much effort in.
Would that be bending the rules a bit too much?
unrealnils
29-10-2005, 15:32
I'd rather have it like it is using this dvd forums..........
I have no idea of the costs but am happy make donations :)
Like Stevie said we shoudnt waste the excellent site you have knocked up. :thumbs:
You got a paypal linky :D
I'd rather have it like it is using this dvd forums..........
I have no idea of the costs but am happy make donations :)
Like Stevie said we shoudnt waste the excellent site you have knocked up. :thumbs:
You got a paypal linky :D
Agree with all of the above.
I'd certainly cough up money via Paypal - does it guarantee me a Committee spot though? :suspect: :D (only joking)
LouBarlow
29-10-2005, 16:15
Can't you imbed the php in this forum and run it from here?
I am a pc-spazz so have no idea what im on about.
Thank you.
Can't you imbed the php in this forum and run it from here?
Nope, if you could embed php into the forum you could easily get into the forums database and steal anyinfo, **** up anything you want.
At the moment the sites not costing anything as it's hardly doing anything but if it grows then it'll need some fundage to pay for hosting/bandwidth.
Stevie - I imagine that the mods wouldn't like that.
If I get the go ahead to post links if have no affiliates then its not a problem and we can continue as we are. If not then you'll have to make a choice Ono's Spreadsheet and the forums or my site (and possibly no PES Forum).
LouBarlow
29-10-2005, 16:43
I'm still not sure how it impacts on this sites affiliations?
Surely the only people visiting, for now, will be those from here anyway? :thinking:
unrealnils
29-10-2005, 16:51
they might use afflis on n#bolchs site over the ones from the dvd forums site
I agree that we shouldn't waste Bolch's excellent site.
It's no problem to set up a forum specific to the league. If we hav to (as a last resort) we could do that.
Right just got the final word back from the mods. I'm not allowed to post anything here about my site even if I leave affiliates off as it counts as "free advertising". :(
So as above. How do you want to play the leagues?
Continue them as normal or basicially take the leagues off the DVD Forums?
I'm easy. Don't say take them off just to use my site - do whatever you think benefits the leagues as a whole.
LouBarlow
29-10-2005, 20:25
Well you are going to carry on your idea anyway I hope so I'm easy either way.
I'm amazed that you can't advertise your site on here without any affiliated links on it though :thinking:
I hope you've copyrighted your idea btw.
Well, I'm easy either way.
Whatever happens it will be a shame.
It will either be a shame to take the leagues away from the forums, or a shame to waste Bolch's great work.
Whatever happens, I'll be there.
league off forums? New specific forum and league? We could make a PES clan!
EDIT
Heres an idea. Use the code to create a linked page (not part of your site) just for people to record their results and show the DVDF leagues.
Surely this would be allowed. You could use it to test the system, and it could be independent from your main site. Like a beta test, if you like.
ManxMuppet
29-10-2005, 20:31
Right just got the final word back from the mods. I'm not allowed to post anything here about my site even if I leave affiliates off as it counts as "free advertising". :(
Unbelievable.
LouBarlow
29-10-2005, 20:34
Not arguing against the decision at all, but it would be interesting to hear a reason why...:thinking:
Wouldn't know how and wouldn't have the money to do it anyway!
/goes to change his bookmarks to none forum affiliates :razz:
"I know this is not the answer you want but this will be our final word on this matter" :|
I am saying nothing against the mods here whatsoever. But are you SURE you cant just link to a forums league page? With just the results table and nothing else on it?
TimJBart
29-10-2005, 20:43
This is all a bit of aggro isn't it!?
Personally...I think if you can get this site up and running in the way that works better than Onos brilliant spreadsheet (because of the stats and auto league tables etc) then I would be happy to use that.
We are using a dedicated forum in the DVD forums so why not have a PES5 forum on your site Bolch.
Two things need considering in my opinion:
1. Is every single member of all leagues happy to migrate over to a new website dedicated to pro evo
2. If no mention of your site is allowed how would the leagues continue to grow? The PS2 league has 11 members(1 division) but how would we expand this after the season is over? We wouldn't be able to get any more poeple off here because your site is effectively banned!!
More discussion needed I feel. Do any of the mods fancy explaining because I'm confused as to what they are actually saying
splobber
29-10-2005, 21:01
Wouldn't know how and wouldn't have the money to do it anyway!
/goes to change his bookmarks to none forum affiliates :razz:
"I know this is not the answer you want but this will be our final word on this matter" :|
I think you are out of order with the sniping (and quoting the mail we sent to you) and I now think we have made the right decision if this is how you are going to act about it.
The reason we declined is that Bolch intends to add affiliate links at a later stage. If you kept it all on a personal non-profit making level then it would have been allowed. When we said no, it was then asked if it could be done on a donation only scheme - which would have probably been OK - but that struck us as a u-turn and won't stop the affiliate links being added at a later date once the site establishes itself without the need for the forums being used as a vehicle (hence the 'free advertising' comment)
Frankly, I'm a bit narked with the way you have reacted to our decision (it's as if you won't take no for an answer) and now turned yourself into a victim who has been swatted by teh nazi mods.
LouBarlow
29-10-2005, 21:04
I think you are out of order with the sniping (and quoting the mail we sent to you) and I now think we have made the right decision if this is how you are going to act about it.
The reason we declined is that Bolch intends to add affiliate links at a later stage. If you kept it all on a personal non-profit making level then it would have been allowed.
Frankly, I'm a bit narked with the way you have reacted to our decision (it's as if you won't take no for an answer) and now turned yourself into a victim who has been swatted by teh nazi mods.
Splobber, how about if he agrees to keep affiliates off and we just donate for the bandwith?
If he then determines to introduce affiliates at a later stage, we could then remove all links to the site?
splobber
29-10-2005, 21:09
I've amended my previous post to incorporate that bit.
TBH, it is too late for all that given Bolch's reaction so I'm firmly digging my heels in as I won't sit idly by and watch us being criticised in this fashion.
LouBarlow
29-10-2005, 21:12
Fair enough - cheers.
I think you are out of order with the sniping (and quoting the mail we sent to you) and I now think we have made the right decision if this is how you are going to act about it.
The reason we declined is that Bolch intends to add affiliate links at a later stage. If you kept it all on a personal non-profit making level then it would have been allowed. When we said no, it was then asked if it could be done on a donation only scheme - which would have probably been OK - but that struck us as a u-turn and won't stop the affiliate links being added at a later date once the site establishes itself without the need for the forums being used as a vehicle (hence the 'free advertising' comment)
Frankly, I'm a bit narked with the way you have reacted to our decision (it's as if you won't take no for an answer) and now turned yourself into a victim who has been swatted by teh nazi mods.
I'm sorry but I've put loads of work into this and it does feel like I've been swatted down. But I've taken it and trying to decide the way forward (hence the other thread and the request for the original to be closed).
I didn't see a problem with the quoting from the email. It was used to make a point that you didn't want to discuss it further so couldn't enquire what ******* suggested.
I haven't critiscised your decision, just made a point I didn't agree with it and don't see a problem with. But if I've annoyed you then I apologise it certainly wasn't the intention.
EDIT - The rasp at the removal of the affiliate links was because I've always made a piont of using them and still got my request turned down even if I ran my site without them
Sorry
Edit 2 - And sorry to all the league players too :(
splobber
29-10-2005, 21:37
The quoting wasn't so much the root of the problem - the :| smiley was.
I'm not annoyed in the strictest sense as I've got far more pressing things to concern myself with. If you have put in a lot of effort into the site then you should also appreciate the work that goes into this site and you wouldn't let anything be posted which draws essential income away from it.
If someone asked you if they could advertise on your site and you said no and then this person made a few swipes on your site afterwards and made it look like you were being obtuse, then you would probably have your nose put out of joint too.
If you were never going to accept anything less then a resounding "YES" from us then you shouldn't have bothered asking in the first place and pressed ahead anyway in all honesty. At least a black book entry for advertising would have been a tangible reason to make us look like the bad guy.
If you were never going to accept anything less then a resounding "YES" from us then you shouldn't have bothered asking in the first place and pressed ahead anyway in all honesty.
As Alan said it wasn't what I wanted to hear but had accepted your refusal (see post 11). It was my frustration at having spent 60+ hours over the last 2 weeks building the code for the site from scratch along with other peoples comments in this thread that made me post what I did afterwards. All I can say is I'm sorry :(
Art Vanderlay
29-10-2005, 23:04
I'm not sure what the answer is Bolch.
Continuing with the spreadsheet style seems to be the only way to keep the leagues 'in forum'. But it was already getting tough to adminsiter the leagues as it was, and with the extra players that will join with PES5 it will only get to be a bigger job still.
Seems a shame that all that coding would go to waste, but I'm sure it would still be of use to other leagues, both real and virtual, to use. But I suppose the issue then is promoting it, as most other forums would have similar rules, I would imagine.
I wonder if there is any way to incorporate a subset of your site into these forums? eg results are posted as usual in a particular format, and the table is built on the fly by the logic on your site from emails subscribing to a 'results' thread? And the table is included somehow into the first post of the thread. A bit Heath Robinson, I know :D
TimJBart
30-10-2005, 10:18
so now it's been slept on what does everyone think?
My question is how do we get every league member to migrate to your site Bolch? I bet some poeple just want to hang around here because it's what they're used to
Ben [Little Funk]
30-10-2005, 10:28
I think your sites excellent Bolch
I'd quite happily move across to it
Is a tough one but taking the leagues away from the forums will stop :
A) Some people visiting the forums as much
B) I have a feeling it will take away the good spirit that has built up here over the past year.
Its a shame to waste all your hard work Bolch and maybe we could have a forums league as per usual and then something else on your web site? If your a Pro Evo Junkie like me im sure people wont mind :D
I'd happily be in two.
I don't have a life! :)
Surely the only workable solution is to have two entirely seperate sites (maybe even with the DVDF being owned by someone else), one just for DVDF leagues, which will obviously never be that huge and we could donate for the bandwidth/hosting costs of, but which has no affiliate linking or links to Bolch's commercial site.
Then Bolch can have his commercial site and mirror the results if he needs to have some content to show off to prospective clients and add all the affiliates he wants, as long as there's never a direct link between the two sites.
Does that sound workable, I assume the database/web pages it's all running on is pretty portable, given the right webspace? The forum here would remain important in organising games and for jovial banter but there'd be no affiliate links to compete with the forums own on the DVDforums league pages and we'd all benefit from the fancy league tables etc.
I think its a real shame, I've only just signed up for the ps2 leauge and was quite frankly blown away by all the work Bolch has put in to build the site it would be a crime not to use it.
The fact that Bolch's site now conflicts with the DVD forums is regretable but I know this was never Bolch's intention and there is no way he should be punished for it, by punished I mean all his hard work going to waste.
However I can also see Slob's point to an extent. We can all see Bolch's work as its a lot more immediate, the work creating and running the forums has gone on for years and lets face it without it we would'nt be having this conversation.
I know that the decision has been made on this but I like everyone else cant help but try and find a solution that keeps everyone happy, something we all want i'm sure.
For whats it's worth my solution, everyone thats in all the leauges makes a contribution to Bolch's paypal which is in turn donated to the DVD forums (charity drive ?) Surely this would provide more income than the affiliates ? Bolch would then in turn be able to run his advertising to cover his costs and not inconsiderable time. This could be reviewed every year.
The paypal donation reflects what everyone can do to show their graditude for the work that goes into running these comps, they have never been free, its just that some kind soul has given their time and effort for free.
Just by two pence worth, can't help but think if we work together on this we can find a solution.
The leagues should stay on the forums - reasons as Rich has mentioned.
Bolch's site is intended for bigger use than the forums only - so I am sure that will come. My suggestion to Bolch is get the site into the position that he wants it (mirroring forums results on a test basis if required) and then hit the world it.
I came up with 2 ideas this morning.
Whoever runs the leagues manually puts the scores into my site as if they were running the leagues with Excel. Then uses Photoshop/MS Paint/Whatever to take a screen dump of the league tables, crop out the table leaving behind my site, and upload the images to their own webspace then link from here. If someone wanted to see the stats they'd have to visit my site seperatly.
Or
I'll write some code into my site so that anyone visiting with dvdf.site.com instead of www.site.com gets a different set of stylesheets and header/footer for the pages (maybe even with a DVD Forums logo on the page). This would provide you with the tables and the links to the stats. The league manager would still have to manually import the scores though. If I go down this route they'd be no way to automatcially 'break out' into the proper site by a link and the only reference to my site would be in the URL if that was ok to the mods. If I could open my mysql database to accept connections from another site then could possibly do it via a totally different URL.
Both of those would have to be cleared with a mods decision though, as I'm not exactly flavour of the month with them at the moment.
If you can't advertise the site, how do we know where to go?
I came up with 2 ideas this morning.
Whoever runs the leagues manually puts the scores into my site as if they were running the leagues with Excel. Then uses Photoshop/MS Paint/Whatever to take a screen dump of the league tables, crop out the table leaving behind my site, and upload the images to their own webspace then link from here. If someone wanted to see the stats they'd have to visit my site seperatly.
Or
I'll write some code into my site so that anyone visiting with dvdf.site.com instead of www.site.com gets a different set of stylesheets and header/footer for the pages (maybe even with a DVD Forums logo on the page). This would provide you with the tables and the links to the stats. The league manager would still have to manually import the scores though. If I go down this route they'd be no way to automatcially 'break out' into the proper site by a link and the only reference to my site would be in the URL if that was ok to the mods. If I could open my mysql database to accept connections from another site then could possibly do it via a totally different URL.
Both of those would have to be cleared with a mods decision though, as I'm not exactly flavour of the month with them at the moment.
TBH I can't see that would be allowed. And i also wonder whether it is actually sensible to continue talking about should w take the leagues off the forums or not.
Basically, we all got together in this fantastic league because of the forums, and they then gave us our own seperate forums to administer it. Personally, and I am not a mod obviously, i think we should stop talking about removing leagues before the decision to remove them is done for us - whether we want them to or not.
And we do, perhaps, owe loyalty to the forums. We owe loyalty to Bolch, of course, for the work he has done - but dont forget we are all here because of the forums.
Chris - we'll discuss when the mods have come to a decision.
Art Vanderlay
30-10-2005, 12:21
And we do, perhaps, owe loyalty to the forums. We owe loyalty to Bolch, of course, for the work he has done - but dont forget we are all here because of the forums.
Good point. That certain je ne sais quoi which makes the leagues a success may be lost if we moved away from here. The blend of people you get around here just seems to make it work.
These forums are by far the best that I have visited. Part of the reason for that is the strict moderation.
If we were a solely PES forum elsewhere, it may get filled with too many l33t players, and the ability to learn in the leagues could be lost. There are already other forums running PES leagues if we wanted to play elsewhere, but we don't because we all like it here :)
I'm not for one minute trying to take this thing away from the forums. All I'm saying is that is that if you want to use my site to record stats etc then we can't use it here so it's either don't use it and stay, use it and leave, or come up with a compromise which I've suggested in post 34
steviep922
30-10-2005, 14:22
I'd go for option 1 of your compromise, Bolch. That way, it carries on as it has done for all the previous seasons, but for those players that like to look at stats they have the option of looking at your site.
I'm not for one minute trying to take this thing away from the forums. All I'm saying is that is that if you want to use my site to record stats etc then we can't use it here so it's either don't use it and stay, use it and leave, or come up with a compromise which I've suggested in post 34
Then I think maybe we should restrict the discussion to just compromise issues?
I never felt you were trying to take away the league from the forums Bolch. Never. It's just that the idea has been discussed in this thread and I was just saying that it probably shouldn't be
We need a mod to determin if a compromise method is ok
EDIT
Just been thinking. The best compromise I can come up with is to set up dvdfpes.bolch.co.uk. That would use the pages from my site but change the css, headers and footers. They'd be no affiliates/adverts on there, no donations page and no reference to my site. It would use the same template as is being used at the moment with the DVDF PES logo at the top. People would still be able to log in and register their scores for a match, view tables and stats.
If you entered via the proper url you'd get exactly the same site but with the different logo, affiliates/adverts.
So essentially I'm carrying on as I planned, but giving the forums a route in without any reference to my site or competing affiliates.
You can go ahead and do this.
TimJBart
30-10-2005, 17:59
hoooorah
LouBarlow
30-10-2005, 18:06
Good old Dan - always my favourite mod :D
Thanks Dan (and all the other mods)
TimJBart
30-10-2005, 18:28
can't wait to see it in action now! So how long till its ready Bolch...3 months? :lol:
Shame cos I was getting quite in to making the PS2 league site, only for it to become superceded by something bigger and better :)
splobber
30-10-2005, 18:48
Good old Dan - always my favourite mod :D
He actually said no, but was voted out by all the others.
TimJBart
30-10-2005, 18:52
He actually said no, but was voted out by all the others.
did we really need to know that? :lol: He was always my least favourite mod :)
He actually said no, but was voted out by all the others.
You lie, get back into your car
http://www.zen82603.zen.co.uk/forums4/1e.gif
did we really need to know that? :lol: He was always my least favourite mod :)
:(
You lie, get back into your car
http://www.zen82603.zen.co.uk/forums4/1e.gif
:lol:
TimJBart
30-10-2005, 19:16
:(
no one can dislike a guy with Ralph in his signature!
can't wait to see it in action now! So how long till its ready Bolch...3 months? :lol:
Aiming for this Saturday.
Shame cos I was getting quite in to making the PS2 league site, only for it to become superceded by something bigger and better :)
You only tried sneaking in when it looked like the dragon was slain :p
ManxMuppet
30-10-2005, 19:24
See Bolch - we told you that lubing up and taking one for the team would do the trick!
I always liked all the mods equally and without any prejudice whatsoever!
See Bolch - we told you that lubing up and taking one for the team would do the trick!
yeah but he got Lou to do it for him. That's why Lou is taking a rest for a few days. he can't actually sit down.
Closing at request of thread starter.
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