Home Cinema has arrived. No idea how to set it up. Hold my hand please!

[AET]

I know this seems like a bad case of RTFM, but I have and I've still got no idea where to start. So, I caved in after an hour and put everything back and I've promised my g/f that I'll do it all when she's out at work on Wednesday. :argue:

Old stuff, I have an Amstrad digibox, a JVC AV-28WR4EK TV and an Akai VCR. I don't even think I have these connected optimally, so would appreciate input there. Both the VCR and the digibox connect via scart directly into the TV and I watch them through something called ext 1 and ext 2, whatever that is. I sometimes get flickering on Sky on the uppermost part of the screen, and definitely get interference from the VCR so have to switch that off if not using it.

Onto the new stuff. I've bought a nice little starter kit. Kenwood KRF-V5050D receiver, Toshiba 210 and Eltax Stargate 5.1.

What do I do 1st? I think I'm in such a mix up because I'm not sure if I have the right connectors. Am I right in thinking that there is more than one way to set up a system? Connecting the amp to the speakers seems easy enough, but how do I get the dvd to the amp, the video to the amp, the digibox to the amp (does it need to go there?) Do they all connect separately or do I do this 'daisy-chaining' bit?

There doesn't appear to be much cabling in the boxes - though I do have a spare s-video and scart cable. I guess I'm looking for a way to get it up and running in the 1st instance, then I can tweek it with optimum cabling and setups etc.

Thanks for reading this far, and if you reply, can you talk in Peter and Jane speak - I really am hopeless.

[ivj]

The best quality signal for the Digibox and DVD player is RGB but unfortunately only Ext 1 on your TV is RGB enabled.

Daisychaining will cause you a problem as if you connect the DVD to the Digibox and then onward to the TV you will lose the connection to the VCR.

One way round this is to buy a scart box into which you can put scart connections from both the Digibox and DVD player and output in in glorious RGB to Ext 1 of the TV.

Another scart lead from the Digibox to the VCR and onward to Ext 2 of the TV will allow you to tape programs.

If your TV has three scart inputs try Digibox to Ext1 with second scart to VCR and onward to Ext2 with DVD connected by scart to Ext3 with TV and DVD set to output S-video in their respective setup menus.

There are two ways to connect the audio side of things and the most popular is run the sound to the TV etc and connect up a pair of phono connectors from the TV output to your new amp but I have found that this doesn't work on my JVC TV as the sound output is terrible so try the following:-

DVD to amp by digital co-axial cable
Digibox to amp by twin phono
VCR to amp by twin phono


Good luck - it will all be worth it in the end

Ian

[kcxdev]

I have the same sort of components in my system and here's how mine is setup

VCR -> DIGIBOX
DIGIBOX -> TV AV2
DVD -> TV AV1

from this I get RGB output from my dvd and composite (PAL on the digibox setup) output from sky - most ppl prefer RGB but this seems worse on my TV. Also note that I never record dvd's. If you want RGB from both sky and dvd and only have one RGB scart on the TV, u'll need a scart box).

DVD optical out -> AMP (coax will also do)
DIGIBOX -> Amp (using phonos - cos the VCR is daisychained thru the digibox, sound from videos also get routed to the amp without turing the vcr on)

I'm happy with this setup and have never had to do any scart swapping etc. Of course, everyones setup will be slightly different depending on what they have and prefer.

[AET]

Thanks for taking the time out there guys.

I will post some more questions later today when I have a minute.

[AET]

1 RGB means red, green, blue and refers to the colour of the pins yes?
2 How do I know that one of my TVs scarts is RGB? I can't find it in the manual.
3 Component isn't an option because the TV doesn't have inputs. That sound right?
4 Connect directly to ext 1 with the scart from the DVD. Scart just carries the video signal right, so there is no need to go through the amp? Why then does the amp's manual tell me how to connect the video components - keeps talking about 'yellow RCA pin cords', what are these? Isn't s-video better than scart? I can connect using s-video direct to the TV from the dvd no?
5 DVD optical out. This is the optical fibre cable which carries the DD and DTS signal to the amp yes - sometimes called a Toslink?

Thanks again

[Bapapapa]

1 RGB means red, green, blue and refers to the colour of the pins yes?

No. It refers to the way the signal is transmitted. ie seperated into the component colours Red Blue Green.

2 How do I know that one of my TVs scarts is RGB? I can't find it in the manual.

It's normally on AV1, just plug a fully wired scart into AV1 and the other end into your DVD player - set the player to output RGB and see what happens.

3 Component isn't an option because the TV doesn't have inputs. That sound right?

Yep. If you haven't got the connections don't worry about it. Much more common on US TVs than ours. We have RGB instead.

4 Connect directly to ext 1 with the scart from the DVD. Scart just carries the video signal right, so there is no need to go through the amp? Why then does the amp's manual tell me how to connect the video components - keeps talking about 'yellow RCA pin cords', what are these? Isn't s-video better than scart? I can connect using s-video direct to the TV from the dvd no?

Don't worry about all that routing thru amp guff, just connect everything as normal to the TV via SCART or S-video leads and just route the audio stuff thru the amp. If you connect thru S-Video, you won't get RGB, though. You'll have to try it and see what's best.

5 DVD optical out. This is the optical fibre cable which carries the DD and DTS signal to the amp yes - sometimes called a Toslink?

Yep. Or you can use a COAX rather than an optical. Difference is negligable, if any at all.

------------

Basically you want to connect everything up as normal to the TV, whichever way you want. Then take the digital output from the DVD to the DVD digital input on the amp, the analogue audio output from the VCR to the VCR input on the amp and the digital/analogue output from the digibox to the appropriate inputs on the amp. If your TV has audio jacks, you can route that to the amp too.

When you want to watch a DVD/DigiBox/VCR prog, turn the TV volume off/down and control the volume through the amp.

[Phill]

Originally posted by AET
1 RGB means red, green, blue and refers to the colour of the pins yes?

Pretty much yes. The Red Green and Blue signals are sent seperately so thast they don't interfere with each other. The alternative is S-video where the brightness and color signals are sent sepereately. Most people say RGB is better but this isn't always the case on every TV.


2 How do I know that one of my TVs scarts is RGB? I can't find it in the manual.


a) Connect your digibox to your TV.
b) Enter the setup menu of your digibox and find the menu that allows you to chnage the signal type.
c) You should be able to change between RGB and 'PAL'. If the scart socket can accept RGB, you'll see a big difference in quality.

Note, the TV should auto-detect but you may have to cycle through the AV inputs on your TV.


3 Component isn't an option because the TV doesn't have inputs. That sound right?


That sounds absolutely correct. European TV rarely have componant input. RGB is similar to it but not compatible.


4 Connect directly to ext 1 with the scart from the DVD. Scart just carries the video signal right, so there is no need to go through the amp? Why then does the amp's manual tell me how to connect the video components - keeps talking about 'yellow RCA pin cords', what are these? Isn't s-video better than scart? I can connect using s-video direct to the TV from the dvd no?


Ooooh, so many mis-conception ;)
a) Scart is not a signal type, it is a type of lead/socket/plug. It can carry composite (v. basic, not favoured), RGB (Usually considered the best), S-Video (Sometimes better on some TV's, try it and see.)
b) It is possible to use your AV amp as the control centre for your home cinema system. So you can connect your DVD players, vcr, and digibox's outputs to your AMP. The AMP can then be connected to your TV. Your AMP then works as an Automatic AV switcher. Sounds cool but no AV AMPs support RGB and some don't even have S-video so most people don't bother. This connection method is popular in America where TVs only have one AV input if any and only high-end TVs have S-video.
c) The yellow RCA pin cord refers to composite video in.



5 DVD optical out. This is the optical fibre cable which carries the DD and DTS signal to the amp yes - sometimes called a Toslink?


Yes. It carries the unprocessed digital bitstream from the player to the AMP. You can also use co-axial (looks like a phono lead) if the player and amp have the relevent connections. If you do have both sorts, don't worry about it, use whichever you want or have, it makes absolutely no difference.



Damn it baps, you beat me to it. :p

[Gizmo]

Believe me, once you have your system set-up you'll love it. :D
I have the same amp (Partnered with Mission speakers) and it's pretty good for the price.

One observation, if you watch TV as much as DVD you might want to consider using the S-Video output from the DVD player. This is what I do since my Phillips TV has, as usual, only one RGB-enabled scart. My (crap and to be replaced soon pleez Santa!) DVD player actually plays better via S-Video than RGB, but in any event, the difference between RGB and S-Video is negligble whereas the difference between RGB and horrible Composite video is major, particularly on modern TV's with extra processing going on.

Now, the big questions is: What DVD are you going to play first to test out your new system ;) ??

[AET]

Great guys I think I'm getting my head round this now. I really appreciate you taking time out to help. I'm off to town tonight to get an optical cable, I should be ready to give it a go tomorrow.

Shall be posting some more spurious questions later.

Stay tuned.

[AET]

Baps kindly said...

If your TV has audio jacks, you can route that to the amp too.

TV does have audio outputs, but there doesn't seem to be any point in connecting them does there, since I watch everything thru the Sky channel.

analogue audio output from the VCR to the VCR input on the amp and the digital/analogue output from the digibox to the appropriate inputs on the amp.

If I connect the VCR to the Digibox via scart, then the digi on to the TV via scart, there won't be any need to connect the VCR phonos to the amp will there? The sound will be daisychained from the VCR thru the Digi and on to the amp no?

Gizmo wrote...



if you watch TV as much as DVD you might want to consider using the S-Video output from the DVD player. This is what I do since my Phillips TV has, as usual, only one RGB-enabled scart. My DVD player actually plays better via S-Video than RGB, but in any event, the difference between RGB and S-Video is negligble whereas the difference between RGB and horrible Composite video is major, particularly on modern TV's with extra processing going on.

I'm not sure what u mean here. Do u mean that u have your TV connected to your digibox via scart into AV 1/ext 1 so that u get RGB? Your dvd is then hooked up via s-video? Is a work round just to leave the dvd unattached until u use it, then swop the scarts round? (not that u'd do it, just trying to get a picture in my head).

[Bapapapa]

Yes, you can route all the the TV/VCR audio thru the Digibox, if you want. I keep mine seperate, goddammit they fitted all these inputs on my receiver and I'm gonna get my moneys worth. :p

[Phill]

Originally posted by AET
Baps kindly said...



I'm not sure what u mean here. Do u mean that u have your TV connected to your digibox via scart into AV 1/ext 1 so that u get RGB? Your dvd is then hooked up via s-video? Is a work round just to leave the dvd unattached until u use it, then swop the scarts round? (not that u'd do it, just trying to get a picture in my head).

That's right. You could do this and watch your DVD via S-video

or

get a scart switch box. If you get a swithing box, you can watch both sky and DVD via RGB but you'll have to manually switch it over everytime you watch a DVD.

or

Alternatively, you can connect sky to AV2 and watch it via composite. This is worse quality but you can then watch DVD via RGB without using a switching box.

or

you can daisy-chain the DVD through the sky box. The drawback here is that you're using up your second scart socket on the sky box so you'll have to connect the VCR using the ariel lead, which i'm afraid is in mono.


I solved this problem by making a custom Y-shaped scart lead, but that's just me.

[pjweston]

TV does have audio outputs, but there doesn't seem to be any point in connecting them does there, since I watch everything thru the Sky channel.
The TV's audio outputs are well worth using if you're connecting using SCART. That's because 2 of the 21 pins on those SCART sockets carry stereo sound. So when you connect your Digibox to the TV using SCART, you are sending stereo to the TV and that stereo signal is output on the TV's audio outputs. In many cases, therefore, you can actually get away with making just one audio connection into your amp. i.e. the TV's audio output.

For example, in my system:

VCR -> TV via SCART
DVD -> TV via SCART (for picture)
DVD -> amp via digital lead (for DD5.1/ DTS)
Digibox -> TV via SCART
TV -> amp via stereo phono lead
CD -> amp via stereo phono lead

So when you select 'TV' on the amp, you get Dolby ProLogic from whichever input you've selected on the TV (DVD, VCR or Digibox). Simple! Of course, the sound quality via the TV might be very, very slightly worse and for that DD5.1 magic you still need to select the DVD input on the amp. :D

There's one proviso, though - it all depends how the volume on TV audio output is controlled...

Ideal: The TV volume control is ignored & a constant fixed volume is output.
In this case, just mute the TV volume (or set it to 0) and use the amp. volume control instead.

Almost as good: Output volume is controlled by the TV volume control but the TV speakers can be disabled.
Much the same as the ideal situation - just turn the speakers off, select a suitable volume on the TV volume control & never touch it again. Note that on an old Sony TV I had, the TV speakers could be disabled, but only by plugging in a pair of earphones!

Weird: The output volume is fixed but is set to zero if you mute the TV speakers.
My Tosh. does this so I have to leave the TV speakers on at min. volume! Otherwise the same as the ideal situation.

Poor: Output volume is controlled by the TV volume control & the TV speakers cannot be disabled.
You can use the audio outputs but you always have the rubbish TV speakers blaring away too. I'd give up on the audio outputs in this case.

[AET]

Right guys, got the Toslink cable, tonights the night!!

[SloppyJoe]

I have the same amp/receiver mix as yourself, bought a few weeks ago. Apart from getting hold of a digital coax cable this was really easy to setup, and sounds great.
I have a question though, and maybe you'll answer this when you setup your system.
What settings are the best for the sub - mine is set randomly and I have no idea what it should be set at (I'm referring to the couple of knobs on the back of it). If you find out I'd be grateful - I don't play mine at very loud volumes, so maybe it's not kicking in much at all.

[AET]

Sloppy siad..

What settings are the best for the sub

U mean u have the Eltax's as well?

[AET]

I made it!! Ended up being far less traumatic that it would have been had I not got all this help, so a big thank you. I went for the following:

VCR -> DIGIBOX, DIGIBOX -> TV AV1 then DVD -> TV AV1, so basically, for the moment I'm switching scart leads over when I use the dvd until I get a scart switcher. It's no big deal. DVD optical out -> AMP, DIGIBOX -> Amp (using phonos)

Still along way from finishing tweeking it, so I'm going to close this thread and ask specific questions on the main forum. You'll know it's me cos they'll be dead obviuos questions :)

Thanks again

[SloppyJoe]

Originally posted by AET
Sloppy siad..

U mean u have the Eltax's as well?

Sorry, I typed amp/receiver rather than speakers/receiver. Yes I have the Eltax's and they sound great. I was just wondering about the Sub setup.

Cheers.