View Full Version : End of level bosses - Rubbish or not?
I'm near the end of Painkiller on the PC (only play the most up to date games as you can see), and its taken flippin' ages, as I stuck it straight onto Nightmare difficulty level. I think its been a really good game, and have enjoyed the whole "bonkers numbers of enemies" style, BUT, as visually impressive as they were, I think the bosses were really tedious to play.
Its just a case of learning the attack routines, and wearing them down, which I think gets really dull, plus the annoyance of if you make a mistake, they invariably have some huge attack that practically kills you with one hit...and start all over again. I actually starting quicksaving my way through them out of boredom.
i always use to think bosses were cool when I was younger, but now can't stand them. If they're overly difficult, it means you get stuck on one very small spot for an age.
Also think its interesting that (IMO) the three best SP FPS of recent times - Far Cry, Riddick and HL2 don't really have them, and don't suffer one jot from it (and I say really, as I know each one does, but not to the same extant as 'classic' boss encounters).
Anyone out there feel the same?
SIMON ADEBISI
13-09-2005, 15:03
Sometimes they can be great fun. God Of War for example had some fantastic bosses.
I was just about to post that God of War has some impressive Boss battles! :D
Now and again they can be good but mostly they're a redundant hangover from the days of arcade gaming where they provided a short difficulty spike to get you to plough more coins in.
MetalGearAl
13-09-2005, 15:26
It depends, I generally like the bosses in the Metal Gear Solid range of games, even though they can be tricky at first.
The bosses in Viewtiful Joe can be a right pain in the arse though.
I don't mind if they are a proper test of skill but if they just use cheap and unfair moves to make things more difficult then I get annoyed. I've just finished God of War lately and that had the best bosses I've seen in a game for a long time. Especially the flaming minotaur, took me a few attempts to get through that!
The ones in Doom were :thumbs:
looks like I'm in the minority then :)
Unable to comment on most games mentioned, as I haven't been near a console since Dreamcast...
Do have Doom 3 though, so will see if they are any better...
anephric
13-09-2005, 15:42
Personally I love bosses, as my collection of Treasure games testifies.
And I *love* Warning Forever, which is a Boss Rush of almost abstract proportions (nothing but bosses!)...
Saying that, the bosses in Alien Hominid had me plucking my eyes out, hefting them by their stalks and beating the TV with them at the sheer brutal hardness of it all...
Ahh, but Treasure are something a bit special, aren't they? (defeating own argument with one fell swoop). Again, I've only played the older Sega ones, i.e. Guardian Heroes, Radiant Silvergun and Icaruga, but the there they seemed a natural progression of the level, rather than "really difficult bit lobbed in to bump up the length of the game"....
Oh, and further rant on the subject...I hate the "find the weak spot" schtick, where you die endlessly affecting no damage, to read on an internet walkthrough that you should have been sooting him in his left toe all along. If you must have bosses, at least make it a straight fight!!!
Xenomorph
13-09-2005, 15:51
rather than "really difficult bit lobbed in to bump up the length of the game"....
That would be the whole of Ikaruga then.
Yup :D
but at least its consistent...
MetalGearAl
13-09-2005, 15:55
Ah, I don't own many Treasure games.. but I gotta say I did like the boss-fights in Bangai-O. The one mid way through (level 22ish) and the final one were a right kick in the ass.
It's all about timing the R button, baby.
I never played Bangai-O (wished I had though, especailly as it seemed you could pick it for about tuppence near the end of DC's life).
Didn't it have a seeming intention to win a competetion for "get as many bullets, enemies and general mayhem on screen as humanly possible"
Ravenger
13-09-2005, 17:12
The Metroid Prime ones were very annoying. I've given up on the game due to a stupidly hard boss. The RE4 ones are pretty good though, for the most part.
anephric
13-09-2005, 17:17
Rare bosses tend to be an absolute kick in the teeth, especially considering how easy (for the most part) the rest of the game has been... in Banjo Kazooie you had to play a game show at the end, answering questions about Gruntilda that (if you'd bothered, which most people didn't) you were supposed to have gleaned from her Good Sister dotted about the place... and EVEN THEN she wasn't dead and you had to go back to finish her off!
And Baron Von Ghoul in Grabbed By The Ghoulies was just sheer, unadulterated EVIL!!!111 I can imagine legions of kiddies bawling into their joypads because of that grinning *******.
fivebyfive
13-09-2005, 17:21
Metroid prime 1 bosses are not too bad but Metroid prime 2's end boss would make Ghandi go postal with semi automatic. With MP, you have to figure when to attack and when to run then it becomes easier
Advent rising has really crap end of level bosses
rbullivant
13-09-2005, 19:27
Some are good, some are awful. Depends on the motivation of the makers as to how they are.
Zelda bosses are superb, challenging and a puzzle in themselves.
Bad bosses include the final boss of StarFox Adventures, can think of several others but this one stands out. Just stupidly difficult really.
Bosses are most often put in a poor game to make it last a bit longer, more often than not I have simply given up on a poor game just because they stuck a boss in that was difficult.
Baldur's Gate has awful Boss Battles, all u have to do is hack as fast as you can!
Rik
I find any game with an overly difficult end of level Boss frustrating. Many a game I have played has been cut short because of them. I just can't be bothered to try and get past them 100 times. I have better things to do. ;)
cjanderson
13-09-2005, 21:22
I liked resident evil's boss battles - or big monster battles. They were not tooooo bad.
But no, i'm not a big boss fan, but i tend to avoid shoot em ups so don't tend to see them that much.
Typing of the dead has some, you have to do different types of typing to destroy them, now thats adrenalin pumping!!
hookbeak
13-09-2005, 21:29
bosses = poor game design
MetalGearAl
13-09-2005, 23:23
Rare bosses tend to be an absolute kick in the teeth, especially considering how easy (for the most part) the rest of the game has been... in Banjo Kazooie you had to play a game show at the end, answering questions about Gruntilda that (if you'd bothered, which most people didn't) you were supposed to have gleaned from her Good Sister dotted about the place... and EVEN THEN she wasn't dead and you had to go back to finish her off!
Hmm, I can't remember paying oodles of attention to the game, but I didn't think that game show was that hard. On the whole the boss wasn't that bad.
I'm wondering if I missed out with Banjo Tooie. Banjo Kazooie was a top top game, but by the time the sequel came out I'd thoroughly moved on to different platforms. :(
SIMON ADEBISI
14-09-2005, 06:18
Zelda bosses are superb, challenging and a puzzle in themselves.
The end boss in Ocarina Of Time was fantastic. Tough but not headwreckingly hard.
timmustill
14-09-2005, 07:01
I gave up on Far Cry :( because I couldn't finish the Volcano level (i.e. big boss fight). Could be that I'm rubbish at games like that though :D
T
wong fei hong
14-09-2005, 07:36
bosses = poor game design
I respectfully disagree. I think there can be a tendency for developers to stick an incredibly tough boss in to prolong gameplay, but the bosses in - for example - Resident Evil 4 are fun, exciting, kinetic and a natural escalation. The same goes for the Zelda games in all incarnations... I want the towering monsters in there.
anephric
14-09-2005, 07:53
Hmm, I can't remember paying oodles of attention to the game, but I didn't think that game show was that hard. On the whole the boss wasn't that bad.
I'm wondering if I missed out with Banjo Tooie. Banjo Kazooie was a top top game, but by the time the sequel came out I'd thoroughly moved on to different platforms. :(
It's fairly impossible if you haven't written down at least 10 or so things about Gruntilda that her sister tells you, and that's if you're lucky enough to get some of those questions and blag the rest. AND EVEN THEN you still have to fight her afterwards.
What about the bosses in Donkey Kong Country? Or Trevelyan in Goldeneye (playing on Agent difficulty)? Infuriatingly hard.
Banjo Tooie is well worth getting, imo, but I love the characters and their stoopid Rare mugging - it's a much bigger game but anyone averse to collectathons=look away now. You'll be lucky to find it for less than £25-30 too, as it came out just before the N64 gasped and died, so there's not too many carts knocking around (PAL ones, anyhoo).
I gave up on Far Cry :( because I couldn't finish the Volcano level (i.e. big boss fight). Could be that I'm rubbish at games like that though :D
T
Don't remember there being a boss there - thought the Volcano level was just tearing up the side of said volcano, with masses of rocket launching Trogens everywhere...?
Been yonks since I played it though, so i may be wrong...
Typing of the dead has some, you have to do different types of typing to destroy them, now thats adrenalin pumping!!
Wierdly, light gun games (yes, I know Typing isn't, but very closely related) seem to be one of the genres where I don't mind them. HotD 2 on DC had great bosses, and didn't tend to cheat either (except the very last one, which was rock hard) - but, it did bring out the old chestnut of "play all the bosses again, one after each other, before we show you the final boss" which was extremely lame.
anephric
14-09-2005, 07:55
Dogs of the AMS... time they made a move.
Stoppit :)
Otherwise this'll turn into a Sega nostalgia fest :D
The end boss in Ocarina Of Time was fantastic. Tough but not headwreckingly hard.
Zelda bosses are good, really liked the ones in windwaker, except the bit at the end where you have essentially fight them all again, with exactly the same tricks you got to get past them in the first place.....seem really easy by that point though
timmustill
14-09-2005, 08:18
Don't remember there being a boss there - thought the Volcano level was just tearing up the side of said volcano, with masses of rocket launching Trogens everywhere...? After you get past them you go into the base and take on the Dr bloke who's mutated into a monster. It's the end of the Volcano level I think.
T
Bleeders
14-09-2005, 08:28
Cheap Bosses = Bad Design (see Tekken 5)
Good Bosses = Good Design (see Devil May Cry 3)
After you get past them you go into the base and take on the Dr bloke who's mutated into a monster. It's the end of the Volcano level I think.
T
Yes, you're right, I remember now. Was blinkin' hard too...my claim of Far Cry not really having bosses is rapidly falling apart...(helicopter, texan bloke, one mentioned above..)
DarthPearce
14-09-2005, 09:22
I don't mind an end of level boss as long as you can save the game before fighting them. Ninja Gaiden has some good bosses but you often have to replay a 3rd of the level before taking them on again. It all depends on the game really.
anephric
14-09-2005, 09:24
Ninja Gaiden has some of the nastiest, most brutal bosses around - even the very first one was a barstool, iirc. Grotesquely unfair.
MetalGearAl
14-09-2005, 09:33
I couldn't do the first boss fight at the end of the Volcano level either :(
I generally dislike bosses in FPS games, they're not generally exciting and in Far Cry it ruined the whole element of stealth to the game. You were dumped in a room with shedloads of enemies and not much space to move about in.
SIMON ADEBISI
14-09-2005, 09:37
I generally dislike bosses in FPS games, they're not generally exciting
The end Boss in HL1 was pretty good. Took me an age to figure out though.
timmustill
14-09-2005, 10:04
Yes, you're right, I remember now. Was blinkin' hard too... I know :(
T
MetalGearAl
14-09-2005, 10:22
The end Boss in HL1 was pretty good. Took me an age to figure out though.
Bah, I hated that boss fight. I much much preferred the collection of enemies + plot presented to you at the end of HL2.
MrHat001
14-09-2005, 10:33
The end Boss in HL1 was pretty good. Took me an age to figure out though.
I really hated that (almost ruined the game for me).
The other bosses in the game weren't too bad but that was just sooo annoying. Just as you're doing well you'd get hit by a teleportation globe and end up with a bunch of monsters.
I quite enjoyed fighting the Ace cards in mercenaries and trying to get to clear ground to call for extraction.
I thought it made for good addictive gaming, trying to get the aces out alive.
Am i the only one who liked that?
anephric
14-09-2005, 10:49
They weren't really bosses in the general sense.
True, but they were a whole other level of difficulty to the rest of the game.
Don't mind bosses myself. Probably my best gaming experience was beating Zan/Xen (whatever his name was) on the hardest difficulty setting on UT, punched the air after beating him, took ages. I am the alpha and the omega :razz:
Xenon2 had good end of level bosses :D
MetalGearAl
14-09-2005, 11:02
Xan :)
I'm terrible at 1-on-1s in mutliplayer-style FPS games. UT was ok, but I couldn't get anywhere in Quake 3.
punisher46
14-09-2005, 11:16
I think the majority of bosses are ok......
M Bison at the end of streetfighter2 was an absolute git though.....
also, not really a boss but in driver on the psx, everything was fine until the last car chase when suddenly all the boss cars went twice as fast as yours..thats just plain stupid
SIMON ADEBISI
14-09-2005, 11:23
M Bison at the end of streetfighter2 was an absolute git though.....
:mad: Its a bit impossible when you can't block his attacks alright.
wong fei hong
14-09-2005, 11:39
Great bosses in Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction - had a pitched battle with a Hulkbuster Warden that took me all over the city and eventually into an ambush where he attacked me along with five tanks. When I finally managed to beat him (in the rubble of a skyscraper we'd destroyed) I booted his body into the sea in triumph... only to remember that part of the mission was to take his head home with me. :doh:
The bosses in Conker (I've only played the xbox version) are brilliant and hilarious :)
punisher46
14-09-2005, 17:32
Its a bit impossible when you can't block his attacks alright.
you coul;d block, but then he'd land next to you, throw you and thats half your energy gone
msm13579
14-09-2005, 18:49
bosses can be ace, as previously said, in Zelda, Ikaruga, Rez (especially the running man) and many other games. but they can be annoying if they are too hard - i couldn't get past the first level boss on ninja gaiden and have great difficulty with any turn based rpg fights, really struggled on the last bosses of KOTOR and paper mario 2. and i couldn't beat the omega pirate in metroid prime :( games should have more very very easy settings. and boss fights can probably be boring/rubbish as well, so just like any other part of a game.
Mike Tyson was quite tough in Mike Tysons Punch Out on the NES.
VintageWhino
14-09-2005, 20:56
I reallt am not a huge fan of bosses. Not say I haven't had my excellent battles. But overall weighing up the decent boss expereince and the down right nasty, I'd have to say I find them awful. When used well, bosses can be great, but generally I find them a pain in the proverbial.
punisher46
14-09-2005, 21:13
bosses are a pain, but its a good feeling once you learn their weakspots and kick their asses.....
Uncle Nick
15-09-2005, 08:14
i ...have great difficulty with any turn based rpg fights, really struggled on the last bosses of KOTOR and paper mario 2.
The one that put my blood pressure through the roof was Final Fantasy 8. The "ultimate GF attack" takes about 2 minutes of unskippable animation to perform - every time - and the boss comes back bigger and harder after you've beaten it. More than once, it turned out, and as the walkthrough I'd been reading neglected to mention this... I got hammered in round 3 after spending all my efforts and at least 3/4 of an hour on the first two rounds.
Keyboard out of window, game back in drawer, never played it again. I still haven't seen the closing FMV...
Grandmaster
15-09-2005, 08:19
I doff my cap to the posters on page one who mentioned the Treasure games' bosses - turning game cliches into a sheer works of art.
Ninja Gaiden bosses are insanely tough - you need to become 'one' with the game in order to beat them. It's bizarre, an almost zen-like instinctual connection between man and game is required to beat those 'muthas' :lol:
Worst end-game boss ever: Quake.
SIMON ADEBISI
15-09-2005, 08:23
Worst end-game boss ever: Quake.
Definitely. Forgot about that one.
I dislike them. Resi Evil 4 was spoiled for me by them but I am a 'special' gamer. ie I only play games about three times a year.
MetalGearAl
15-09-2005, 08:39
I hate RPG bosses, generally because I'm naff at the game. It seems though that you can play through the game fine, levelling up as you go and then you hit a boss who obliterates you. See what you're meant to do, in every RPG game I've played, is actually replay the same bits over and over again before this boss so you can get strong enough to beat him.
Not my idea of fun really...
Out for Justice
15-09-2005, 10:56
Doc Oct in Spiderman II - I know how to defeat him but it's too hard and way to frustrating. (Last level)
Red Dead Revolver - Last guy in the showdown. Nails me everytime. :brickwall
SIMON ADEBISI
15-09-2005, 10:57
Red Dead Revolver - Last guy in the showdown. Nails me everytime. :brickwall
He was a headmelter. Took at least 50 goes to beat him. I sold the game straight away afterwards. Couldn't bear to play it again even though i enjoyed most of it.
Ruby Weapon in FF7 was quite tough as it kept doing whirl sand on my party which would take out 2 of my members. I then figured out that if you went in with 2 dead team members that it wouldn't do that whirl sand attack so often.
anephric
15-09-2005, 18:57
The boss at the end of Red Faction 2 (yes, I actually did play through it) made me come perilously close to hating Lance Henrikson, with his cheapass spammy attacks.
Vile game.
MetalGearAl
15-09-2005, 19:32
What the hell? How could you play through that? I took about 7 steps forward in the first level and then uninstalled it.
I liked the first game though, and multiplayer in it is a laugh.
anephric
16-09-2005, 07:40
I iz a masochist. I played through Pariah recently too, whilst muttering to myself every 5 mins "My God this is sooooo tedious" but I finished it anyway...
Pariah, hmph. I've completed Contract Jack :D
And to keep it on topic, that had a useless end of game boss you could hardly see - he popped up in different window miles away, so you were just shooting at a pin-sized head....
GreyJackal
16-09-2005, 08:11
The lift in PoP Sands of Time :|
Never did get past that.
MetalGearAl
16-09-2005, 08:15
Everyone complains about that, piece of piddle IMHO! You really need to make use of the wall-spring move, it's probably the best move in the game and can get you out of plenty of tight spots.
anephric
16-09-2005, 08:17
and can get you out of plenty of tight spots.
I find I strive for the opposite in the real world.
GreyJackal
16-09-2005, 08:23
Meh...I threw a hissy fit, ejected the disc and flung it against the wall. Didn't load so well after that.
MetalGearAl
16-09-2005, 08:27
I find I strive for the opposite in the real world.
I feel obliged to help:
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~tennyson/al/forums/tightspot.jpg
anephric
16-09-2005, 08:27
I headbutted an Xbox pad once so hard I broke both analogue sticks and had indentations on my forehead for a good few hours.
anephric
16-09-2005, 08:28
I feel obliged to help:
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~tennyson/al/forums/tightspot.jpg
Is that a peripheral for the Revolution?
The lift in PoP Sands of Time :|
Never did get past that.
That one was easy and not really what you'd call a boss, just lots of normal enemies
Or Trevelyan in Goldeneye (playing on Agent difficulty)? Infuriatingly hard.
Bet you hated 00 Agent then :|
MetalGearAl
16-09-2005, 10:57
I was crap at Goldeneye. Well, I ruled multiplayer (License To Kill for teh win) but I couldn't get past the second Bunker level on one of the later difficulty levels. It was too hard!!1
GreyJackal
16-09-2005, 10:58
That one was easy and not really what you'd call a boss, just lots of normal enemies
I was fine. It was that stupid bint getting slapped about that was the problem.
I was fine. It was that stupid bint getting slapped about that was the problem.
Easiest way to do that one was to use the sands of time fast attack thing where you run round like a mental at breakneck speed killing everything in your path.....then just mop up
duckwaffle
12-10-2005, 11:51
I like bosses, as a rule....The ones in Metal Gear Solid and the Final Fantasies are especially good.
Peter UK
12-10-2005, 12:35
i couldn't get past the first level boss on ninja gaiden
You big wuss; you've forever lost any gaming respec' I had for you now Spectacular...
The Suffering 2 has the worst end boss ever.
I spent hours trying to kill him before I finally gave-up, still none the wiser.
SIMON ADEBISI
12-10-2005, 13:04
The end Boss in the first Suffering wasn't the easiest either. Took me a few hours to beat him.
msm13579
12-10-2005, 21:21
You big wuss; you've forever lost any gaming respec' I had for you now Spectacular...
:p i suck at fighting games, they should all have a "rediculously easy" setting so i can play them :lol:
The end Boss in the first Suffering wasn't the easiest either. Took me a few hours to beat him.
pales in comparison to the sequel, it might be simple but they give you no clue how to kill him, I just seemed to spend ages guessing, wrongly.
cjanderson
13-10-2005, 19:22
Meh...I threw a hissy fit, ejected the disc and flung it against the wall. Didn't load so well after that.
:suspect: Goes over to look at what games I have on my shelf.
:suspect: finds the one that Graham sold me. :suspect:
Some day I shall get round to playing it.
End of game bosses. Voldermont was hard at the end of Harry potter 3. And you can't save it near the end so have to do about 3 tricky moves in a row to win.
Hate games with bosses, bar the resident evil ones, I can cope with those ones. With a large rocket launcher. And on easy.
rbullivant
13-10-2005, 20:33
Baldur's Gate has some awful Bosses, just hack as fast as you can, no skill required!
Rik
degeneration
13-10-2005, 20:38
The end Boss in the first Suffering wasn't the easiest either. Took me a few hours to beat him.
I can't remember that one taking up too much time. Seem to remember thinking was that it? Maybe 2 attempts...?
Final Fantasy X. Now there are really daft bosses. One part had about 6 in a row, then some hard impossible dude in a cavern... Gave up and sold it. Also sold FFX2 before I even played it due to the bosses in FFX.
rbullivant
14-10-2005, 05:21
The final boss in FFX I don't think you could get killed on, I think Yu Yevon protected you.
Rik
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