NTL Digital

[whitty]

Has anyone got NTL Digital at the mo. I want to ask a few questions.... Hopefully someone has it!!!!


1. Does it have 2 SCART sockets. one with RGB
1.5 Does it also have an RF cable so you can still use 1 - 5 on TV
2. Are there different makes of BOX's like SKY.
3. What is the picture quality like.
4. What price would I have to pay to get the same channels as SKY FAMILY PACKAGE, which is the £16 package


Thanks guys n gals.


Whitty

[Andy_C]

I don't have NTL digital, but I did have NTL analogue.

The billing is very confusing.

I also have a friend that works in NTL, and due to his position in the company he can get some basic NTL services free.

But he subscribes to Sky instead.

Make of that what you will...

[whitty]

This is where my problem is.

My POP has SKY in his front room, which means I either get ITV Digital or NTL.

[pjweston]

Hardware-wise, I can answer for the Pace Di4001 box used in the original NTL (ie not ex-Cable & Wireless) areas. For further info. you may like to check www.digitalspy.co.uk
1. Does it have 2 SCART sockets. one with RGB

The Di4001 has two SCART sockets. The latest 'B' version has RGB output whereas the 'A' version has S-video. There is no RGB pass through. I believe that the ex-C&W Pace boxes (Telewest also uses these) are the same.

1.5 Does it also have an RF cable so you can still use 1 - 5 on TV

The Di4001 'A' has an RF output and passes through analogue signals from the cable (eg BBC1-CH5). The 'B' model has lost the analogue pass through but I believe that it still has the RF output.

2. Are there different makes of BOX's like SKY.

AFAIK they are all still Pace models. You can see them on the Pace web site. I believe that NTL have signed up a 2nd manufacturer to supplement/ replace Pace but I'm not sure if anyone is getting these yet. The Di4001 will be replaced by the ex-C&W box. Note that the ex-C&W Pace boxes use the IRDA infra-red protocol which cannot be properly learned by any learning remote control (One-For-All and Tivo apparently offer some very basic functions).

3. What is the picture quality like.

Basically as good as the source material (excellent on primary channels, heavily compressed on the less popular channels). Menus are razor sharp through RGB. It's not DVD but I've no complaints when viewing on my 43" RPTV.

4. What price would I have to pay to get the same channels as SKY FAMILY PACKAGE, which is the £16 package

3 'packs' @ £4 + the 4th pack @ £1 + the 5th pack free = £13. Then add the cost of the STB+phone line £15. Effective cost is therefore £18 if you exclude £10 for the phone line. Note that NTL have considerably fewer channels than Sky at the moment although most of the major ones are present. The difference has recently narrowed and is expected to narrow further early next year with the addition of the missing Discovery channels. Again, Digitalspy is the best source of info.

Overall I'd say that the NTL Digital service is slightly behind Sky in terms of channels, features, customer service (OK, miles behind everyone here!) and prices. It's technically about equal. It's leagues ahead of ITV Digital, though. The one area where NTL are really ahead of the competition is Internet/ interactive access - their charges are much lower than the competition(24/7 Internet is £5 via TV/ £10 V.90/ £25 512K broadband and no interactive charges).

[whitty]

Just had a look at that site. Thanks for detailed reply m8. :)

I presume it sends a WIDESCREEN SIGNAL like sky. The thing with our sky at the mo is that is VERY VERY bad quality and the picture is "Pixalating"

At the moment I think we pay something like £12 for 2 telephone lines and analogue cable. All I want is

ENTERTAINMENT CHANNEL - for BRAVO/SKY ONE/ UK GOLD
FUN - E4 (prob not worth paying for this if I want only one damm channel)

MUSIC. ALL OF THESE

Looking at the prices online. It looks like it could prob cost me

£28.99 :(

We got 2 phone lines at the start for £11 which then went up to 12 I think and we could also have Cable telly free.

Does this sound about right.

Thanks

EDIT: Is it also true you can link your Network card to the DIgital Box and pay for 128 Broadband. If so do you know a price for this.

[Greenstead]

I have NTL digital, phone service and broadband service (512Kb).

I agree with most said above with a couple of things to add.
Our digital PACE box does RGB however it also still does analgue pass through for the terrestial channels which is very useful (but I think the later boxes do not do the pass through).

NTL broadband starts at 128Kbps (I can't remember the price - you can look at NTL's website for current prices ~£15 per month).
NTL's existing PACE boxes have a modem in them which is incompatible with their cable service (maybe new ones are different) - strange but true - it is because when they bought C & W they standardised on C&W modem standards. Fo the 512Kbps service we have (it is actually 600Kbps download 128 Kbps upload) the cost is £24.95 including the rental of the cable modem (£5)- which is sensible so everything remains their problem to deliver the service. Installation is £25. The broadband service is terrific - but of course it does depend on some factors:
1. What you want it for. Fantastic for on-line games and downloads.
2. Where you live - if there are lots of others on the same segment you get limited bandwidth and poor service.
Ours in Surrey is excellent. Online movies are coming and this is what you will need - I recommend the 512K service.

The service is great when it all works - which is most of the time. NTL service is awful when things go wrong. They are undermanned and probably at risk of failing with a debt burden the size of a small country and all their issued debt has been down graded recently. I'm not sure this should affect your decision but NTL may not be NTL by the end of next year.

[pjweston]

Automatic widescreen switching works perfectly. Pixellation is not a problem for me but I've seen some people complaining of this problem; it's usually due to weak signal strength on their stretch of cable.

I'd think carefully before abandoning analogue cable - it appears to be considerably cheaper than digital. NTL will eventually force people off analogue, of course.

Depending on where you live, you may get Sky 1 for free. The NTL website only tells half the story about which channels you get in the base package. In my area (Hampshire/ Surrey), apart from the usual BBC/ ITV free to air channels you also get Eurosport, Sky 1, The Studio, MTV2, Sky News, ITN, CNBC and a couple of shopping channels at no extra cost. The prices for digital TV are:

Digital base pack = £15
(If you're going digital - or want a cable modem - you must have this. It includes 1 phone line)
1 channel pack = £4
2 channel packs = £8
3 channel packs = £12
4 channel packs = £13
5 channel packs = £13
Extra STB = £10

Internet access is a bit of a mess. Here's how I think it currently works (all prices are for flat-rate 24/7 ntlworld access):

via TV = £5
dial-up = £6 (includes a 2nd phone line, may no longer be available - see below)
128Kbps cable modem = £15 (not advertised but apparently available if you request it)
512Kbps cable modem = £25

In original NTL areas you use a stand-alone cable modem and can save £5 on cable modem access by buying your own cable modem (£150). In ex-C&W areas you use the cable modem built into the STB by running a standard twisted-pair cable from a network card in your PC to the STB; AFAIK you can't supply your own cable modem.

The trouble with Internet access via NTL is knowing what's available in what areas. All original NTL areas have had dial-up and access for some time now and most also have (stand-alone) cable modem access. In ex-C&W areas, though, the roll-out of both is only just getting under way.

Finally, note that free ntlworld dial-up access ends on Jan 7th 2002. It will be £10 from then on (although existing users will get a £5 discount for a year) and a 2nd phone line won't be included (£7.50 for a 2nd line). I believe the new customers are no longer permitted to sign up for the £6 deal shown above.

[Squirtle]

Originally posted by pjweston


I'd think carefully before abandoning analogue cable - it appears to be considerably cheaper than digital.

Depending on where you live, you may get Sky 1 for free. .

Analogue does not work out cheaper unless you only want a few channels.

Full analogue pack = £47.99
Full digital pack = £43.99

Sky One is available to all ntl customers in the base pack in all areas.

[whitty]

Originally posted by Squirtle


Sky One is available to all ntl customers in the base pack in all areas.

That aint what it says on thier site m8. it says you have to pay for SKY ONE. And lists the channels that you do get free.

[MartinC]

Squirtle is correct, you DO get Sky 1 free in the base pack.

I've got Sky Digital, NTL is just for broadband, but was very surprised to find the channel when browsing.

NTL isnt that bad either.... picture isnt as good as SkyD sometimes with blocking, but it does do w/s signalling.

The only thing thats "better" on Sky really, apart from some extra channels, is the interactive stuff and things like Walking with Beasts & Wimbledon (when on).

Oh... and the fact that the volume button works on the Sky remote (unlike NTL's)...
my wife just couldn't get her head around that one...

[Squirtle]

Sky One is provided as a bonus channel in the base pack rather as a 'free' channel (same as British Eurosport + others which are listed in packs but actually come with the base pack).

This is done so that we can make it chargeable whenever we feel like it.

[Squirtle]

Originally posted by MartinC

NTL isnt that bad either.... picture isnt as good as SkyD sometimes with blocking, but it does do w/s signalling.


Oh... and the fact that the volume button works on the Sky remote (unlike NTL's)...



ntl compresses channels less than Sky - poor pic quality either means a signal level fault or that distributor is providing a heaviliy compressed channel in the first place (anything ITV for starters).

The volume control does work but only via the SCART on some boxes.

[mbuckhurst]

I live in an Ex-C&W area (Stockport), so things are slightly different.

1) Pace box (1000N I think) has built in cable modem, with a rj45 connection which may or may not be a cross-over.

2) Cost for broadband (512k) is £25 month, the 128k service although advertised wasn't available due to technical difficulties (yeah right! more like can't be bothered to configure bandwidth throttling), quoted early next year.

3) Picture quality eats Sky for lunch (supposedly higher bandwidth than sky), what's pixelation?

4) 2 scarts one RGB, standard composite out and rf out.

I pay approximately £50 month for cable, one phone line and all the standard tv channels bar the kiddies programmes.

[Squirtle]

Originally posted by mbuckhurst
what's pixelation?
.

When the picture breaks up into coloured squares.

[whitty]

If I get SKY ONE free then I wont bother with one of the packs with that in now and have a different one instead.


:)

[GarethR]

3) Picture quality eats Sky for lunch (supposedly higher bandwidth than sky)

How does NTL receive its Sky-sourced channels? I thought it took them off-air with a dish like any DSAT customer (albeit using industrial equipment) - hence the quality could only ever be as good as DSAT, and very likely slightly lower as the the pictures needed to be decompressed and then recompressed before being muxed and squirted down the cables.

Is it the case that NTL gets direct, pre-compression feeds of Sky programming instead?

[Squirtle]

Originally posted by GarethR
3) Picture quality eats Sky for lunch (supposedly higher bandwidth than sky)

How does NTL receive its Sky-sourced channels? I thought it took them off-air with a dish like any DSAT customer (albeit using industrial equipment) - hence the quality could only ever be as good as DSAT, and very likely slightly lower as the the pictures needed to be decompressed and then recompressed before being muxed and squirted down the cables.

Is it the case that NTL gets direct, pre-compression feeds of Sky programming instead?

We have a direct fibre link to Sky for their programming.

[whitty]

squirtle..


Can you confirm which channels you recieve free for the mosr basic package. Thanks m8

[Squirtle]

http://www.ntl.com/locales/gb/en/home/ask/television/digital/packs/digitalplus/channels-a1a2a3a4a5a6.asp

The ones listed on the above link plus Sky One.

[fabryuk]

I am a bit confused here, did you say we will have to pay for ntlworld after Jan 2002??

NTL did not tell me that, where did u get the info from??

[Squirtle]

If you are an existing customer you will be mailed in January - only affects those using an ntl line to access.

[whitty]

What do you mean, only affects those using an NTL Line.


So because we use THEIR NTL line we have to pay now.

Screw that, if they charge me for internet access for my 56k modem. IM CANCELLING THE SECOND LINE

:mad: :mad:

[fabryuk]

I totally agree, I actually have 2 ISP, NTL and AOL. Have to subscribe aol because my working place can only use aol. Now thinking of using AOL only on both places, as long as my wife does not use it as the as time as me

BTW, for those ntl analogue customer, stick with it. I even have E4 now on analogue. The more we change to digital, the faster they will close down the service

[whitty]

Is this because NTL are Sooooooooooo in Financial Trouble
so we have to pay the price eh! Great :mad: :mad:

[Squirtle]

If you use a BT line to access ntlworld you have to pay a minimum of £15.00 per month already (although this includes £15.00 worth iof voice calls).

Existing ntlworld customers will only pay £5.00 per month throughout 2002.

Free Internet is not sustainable by any business regardless of its financial situation.

[fabryuk]

I know NTL still very cheap compare to other ISP. I think I bookmark in my computer soemwhere to look for cheap ISP

Here it is
http://www.net4nowt.com

[GarethR]

We have a direct fibre link to Sky for their programming

Interesting - do you get it pre- or post-compression? And how do you receive the channels from the other main providers? Are *any* taken as off-air feeds?

The reason I ask is that analogue cable used to be notorious for receiving most of its programming off-air and then passing it through a lash-up of all kinds of equipment (some only of domestic quality) before it could be muxed and fired down the cables - hence analogue cable's frequently poor reputation for its picture quality (I saw some analogue Telewest cable not so long ago and was horrified at the amount of noise in the pictures).

[Squirtle]

I would assume it is not compressed when we recieve it because because it is a direct link with high capacity.

Other channels are sourced from various satellites, off air via ITV Digital (which is why the picture quality on ITV Sport and Select is crap because it is already over compressed) and in some cases, before digital, we recieved the channel on video tape(!).