Dos Norton Ghost and Hard Disks

[nwgarratt]

I have two questions.

Can the DOS version of Ghost recognise a USB 2.0 external hard disk to back up to? There is something in the BIOS about DOS USB.

and

I noticed that it took 40 minutes to back up whereas it takes 15 minutes to do it normally for the same data ( up to 350-400MB/min and now 150MB/min). I got from drive C to drive D. Now, I have seen this before. Just before my drive C crashed and failed completely it was backing up really slow. Surely, my drive C isn't failing again? I have had two failures already in just over a year.

Also, I replaced the motherboard yesterday with a identical one (Gigabyte 7VAXP Ultra). I wonder if I have done something. Both hard disks are on IDE 1 as master and slave.

Is there any software that can test the hard disk for faults?

Any thoughts?

[Art Vanderlay]

Is there any software that can test the hard disk for faults?


If you go to the web site of whoever made your hard disk, there should be a DOS test utility which you can run to test the drive

[nwgarratt]

The drive is a Western Digital. I found a program called HD Tunes and that comes up with both my HDD's as ok. :?:

I wonder what else could cause the slow read speed. I will be doing a defrag shortly (although drive C had 48GB spare).

[Chris Locke]

If both hard disks are on the same channel, then data transfer is going to be slow, as its going up and down the same cable, but not at the same time.
Stick both disks as 'master' on their own channel and you should see a noticeable improvement in performance.
Have you enabled S.M.A.R.T in the BIOS for the disks? This keeps count of the power-on times, error counts, CRC errors, etc that the drive encounters, and can highlight potential dodgy drives.
There are a number of free tools around to 'read' this SMART data too, if you're feeling geeky... ;)

As for Ghost seeing a USB drive, I believe the newer versions do (v8 and beyond) although I've never tried it. Or I may be getting confused with it seeing external USB CD drives. I'll have a dig around...

[nwgarratt]

Both the hard disks have always been on the same IDE 1 channel as master and slave. I was still getting a lot faster read speed before.

I beleive smart is enabled for both drives. There doesn't seem to be anything in the BIOS about it. I do see a smart screen when booting up but it is only on for a microsecond.

[Chris Locke]

AIDA32 (now Everest) is available from Lavalys.com (http://www.lavalys.com/products/overview.php?pid=1&lang=en) and is free. This gives detailed SMART info - might pinpoint something. It also shows what level of DMA they're running at (although that may not be applicable when in DOS...)

[nwgarratt]

I just happened to check the DMA. With my old motherboard, it was on UDMA now it is Multi Word DMA with the new board?

[Chris Locke]

Apparently, its the same thing (see here... (http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/modesDMA-c.html)) or could mean the same thing. Its knowing what 'level' of DMA (or UDMA) you're using, that could pinpoint the problem.

Whats your operating system? I know there was an issue with XP SP1 and DMA modes... (or maybe pre-SP1... gah, I forget.)

[nwgarratt]

I am using XP with SP1. The only thing that has changed is the motherboard. Everything including the drives are in the same place and same cables as before. I think I had UDMA 2.

I just tried my USB 2.0 external hard disk for the first time since the new motherboard. It is the same and 1GB gets copied in 85 seconds. Doing the same thing from C to D takes twice as long.

[Chris Locke]

Try the Everest program (linked above) as (well, the old version did...) show DMA info for each drive. If it doesn't, I've got the olde AIDA32 here which I'll post up (its free).

[nwgarratt]

I try that program.

I just got back to the computer and there was a blue screen error. I have never had that in XP all the time I have had XP. It reseted itself before I could see what caused it.

[Chris Locke]

Did you mean "I'll try that program", or "I tried that program" ? Couldn't work out if you had already used it or not. If you have, and that Everest program caused the bluescreen, then try the old version. I must admit I've not used it on XP, but have on 2000 quite frequently.
I've uploaded it here (http://www.creapsoft.co.uk/download?id=42b176e9). Just unRAR it into a directory and run Aida32.exe

[nwgarratt]

I hadn't tried that prorgam. I have now.

Both programs show UDMA 0 as the DMA mode. I can do screenshots if it will help.

[Chris Locke]

Using Aida32 (as I can't use the Everest one) click Storage -> EIDE. What value have you got for "Active UDMA Transfer mode" (on each drive) ? I've got UDMA 5 (ATA 100), for example.

[nwgarratt]

Both drives.

EIDE Device Properties
Model ID WDC WD600AB-00BVA0
Max. PIO Transfer Mode PIO 4
Max. UDMA Transfer Mode UDMA 5 (ATA-100)
Active UDMA Transfer Mode UDMA 0


EIDE Device Properties
Model ID ST380011A
Max. PIO Transfer Mode PIO 4
Max. UDMA Transfer Mode UDMA 5 (ATA-100)
Active UDMA Transfer Mode UDMA 0

[Chris Locke]

And you're using 80 core ribbon cable? Try with just one drive. Then try as both masters, just to see if the DMA changes.
I've seen two hard drives 'argue' like this before, and putting them on their own channels solved the issue.

Are you explicitly setting the master/slave, or is it cable select?

[nwgarratt]

And you're using 80 core ribbon cable? Try with just one drive. Then try as both masters, just to see if the DMA changes.
I've seen two hard drives 'argue' like this before, and putting them on their own channels solved the issue.

Are you explicitly setting the master/slave, or is it cable select?

I don't know about the ribbon cable.

All I know, is I have had DMA as UDMA for the last two years and now can't get it back to where it was with the new motherboard.

I don't have another cable to try.

[Chris Locke]

Are you using a cable for your second IDE channel (CD ROMs) - does your cable for your hard drives look like that (which should be 40 core)?
Try with just the system drive, so see if its any happier.

[nwgarratt]

I disconnected the drive D and the computer wouldn't even boot up or recognise the drive C. I put both back on and windows loads as normal.

What do you mean 40 or 80 core? I just have two cables one for the HDD's (master and slave) on IDE 1 and one for IDE 2 for the DVD writer (master). Both have a master/slave connector.

I found this on the Western Digital Website.

Mode 5 Ultra ATA 100.0 MB/s
Mode 4 Ultra ATA 66.6 MB/s
Mode 2 Ultra ATA 33.3 MB/s
Mode 4 PIO 16.6 MB/s
Mode 2 multi-word DMA16.6 MB/s

I had UDMA 2 which is 33MB. That does seem to be the reason why my data transafer has doubled.

[Chris Locke]

Technically (given the details posted above) you should be using mode 5 - 100 MB/s - so if anything, its a third of what it should be.
UDMA IDE cables have 80 wires in them, while normal IDE cables have 40. The 'normal' one you should have for your DVD unit. The style of it (thickness, number of wires inside) should be different from your hard drive cable. Its hard to explain in words how they're different, and I don't have my camera to hand to take a pic. If you had fast transfer before, I'm assuming you've not changed the cable, so you must be using a proper cable.
Not sure why pulling your D drive your system refused to boot... maybe it holds your system partition or something, but its not worth going down that route.
Hmm. Will have a ponder and will dig around Google.

[nwgarratt]

Thanks for the help.

The DVD cable is a standard flat ribbon cable. The one on the hard disk is a big thick round cable. I think it is a cable problem as it affects DOS Ghost as well.

I just had a look at a old photo. It isn't very clear but the LG writer looks like it is on IDE 1 and the hard disk is on IDE 2. That is the opposite I have now.

edit.

I tried the cables the other way around and no difference. The HDD cable is defnitely 80 core from what it looks like.

[nwgarratt]

I found another cable and tried both hard disks as master on their own cable. Same thing, the computer wouldn't boot and stalled at detecting drives part.

I need it to work and so, I will ignore the problem for now.

Thanks again for the help.