View Full Version : Premier League launch Cole 'tapping' inquiry
simonmac
06-02-2005, 18:49
The FA Premier League are to launch a formal inquiry into claims that Chelsea made an illegal approach for Arsenal and England full-back Ashley Cole.
Reports have claimed that Cole met with Chelsea chief executive Peter Kenyon and manager Jose Mourinho at a London hotel to discuss a potential move.
Full Story (http://www.football365.com/news/story_142717.shtml)
Now i won't be sad if they lose points but surley Ash won't come away sqeaky clean out of this.
Fat Bloke
06-02-2005, 21:27
My big problem with this is, will they now investigate every other case of a player being tapped up? The answer is No, so why are they going after Chelsea?
Manu have been getting away with it for years, and I'm sure loads of other clubs have been as well.
I'm not a Chelsea fan before anyone thinks I am!
unrealnils
06-02-2005, 21:40
be stupid to dock points.........
What happened to Villa ?? a verbal wartning ? then the same should apply here .
campdave
06-02-2005, 21:44
I would have said there was no way they would dock points, but after the way Rio Ferdinand was treated to hammer home a point, now I'm not so sure that they won't use this as a case to make an example of one team to deter others.
Speaking as a Man Utd fan, I think it would be completely unfair should it happen as I believe it does happen frequently, but I think the FA have lost a sense of proportion recently.
simonmac
06-02-2005, 21:47
It's a tough call, the FA have been very reluctent to dock points (IIRC the last time it has happened to a top flight team was Arsenal/Manure after a little dust up), a fine would be useless and i don't think a warning will have any effect either.
I still can't understand why Cole was there. Isn't that one of the points in having an agent ? To act as a go-between.
ARSENE: I TAP UP PLAYERS...'Arsene Wenger last night backed down in his dispute with Alex Ferguson - and admitted he has tapped up players in the past. "I know how the transfer market works. I'm not stupid enough to believe people don't speak to players. I think everyone does it..."
:suspect: :lol:
This is really getting on my tits now, they all do it, we know they all do it, so why just pick on Chelsea this time? I'll tell you why, it's because those idiots in the press are obsessed with their own importance and like to think they can knock anyone down at their whim, and doing so will sell a few more rags! I'm fed up with them, and their bias ways.
Anyone care to mention how Arsenal went about signing Campbell, or how Man Utd went about signing Bellion?
In case anyone doesn't know, I'm not a Chelsea fan, in fact I dispise them about as much I as I do Arsenal. A bit of banter is fair enough, but the press are really going too far of late and there's a definate feeling of spite in their articles. They talk of Chelseas arrogance, but they really want to start looking a bit closer to home.
It's a tough call, the FA have been very reluctent to dock points (IIRC the last time it has happened to a top flight team was Arsenal/Manure after a little dust up), a fine would be useless and i don't think a warning will have any effect either.
Wasn't too long ago that they docked Spurs points for not taking the Intertoto Cup seriously. :mad:
simonmac
06-02-2005, 21:57
Wasn't too long ago that they docked Spurs points for not taking the Intertoto Cup seriously. :mad:
Now i know your taking the mick, Spurs in europe? Pull the other one.
:D
Now i know your taking the mick, Spurs in europe? Pull the other one.
:D
You cheeky bugger! :lol:
We've still won more in Europe than Arsenal even though we've only been in it once in the last 20 odd years! :nuts: :thumbs:
slideymoo
06-02-2005, 23:49
so why are they going after Chelsea?
Because man utd are in danger of not winning the league again ;)
Anyone care to mention how Arsenal went about signing Campbell, or how Man Utd went about signing Bellion?
.
Players with only 6 months left on their contract can be spoken to and sort out a contract with another club.
Because man utd are in danger of not winning the league again ;)
and the FA have a long record of being soft on man utd to help them win the league don't they ?
Cantona 8 month ban
Rio Ferdinand long ban.
3 match ban for rooney (and also Toure) but not for many other instances of 'violent conduct'
get your facts right, and you'll find they don't fit ABU tinted viewpoints.
The FA seems to like to be seen to be tough against 'high profile' clubs, so I expect chelski to have a worse punishment than that given to Villa.
i don't however think they should be docked points.
I can't beleive people are actually comparing this to the Beattie case.
Suggesting you are interested in a player (or he is intersted in you) is one thing. But organising and attending a meeting with both the player and his agent, with both the manager and other senior members of staff attending is far worse. It's also a lot easier to prove.
Also, Villa were only a couple of months early in what they did (if they did anything), whereas Chelski jumped the gun by a couple of years.
Another point about the Beattie case, is it was fairly well known in Football and Media circles, that Beattie was 'available' if the right offer came in. This was not the case with Cole, whom Arsenal had given no indication of wanting rid of, quite the reverse in fact.
Players with only 6 months left on their contract can be spoken to and sort out a contract with another club.
This is only if the club in question is foreign.
Liverpool were found guilty of poaching Ziege from Boro. They knew the value of the release clause in his contract and bid that amount to secure him. Given the contract was confidential between player and club, the FA decided they had been guilty of an illegal approach....
...and fined them about £4.12
Wasn't too long ago that they docked Spurs points for not taking the Intertoto Cup seriously. :mad:
They didn't dock points but UEFA did remove an UEFA cup spot from the Premier League. 6th would normally have qualified for a European spot but not that year.
I should know, it was practically the only time Everton had a top 10 finish in a decade and still we were deprived because of another club's actions...it's bad enough Spurs beat us year in year out without that adding to it.
I believe that this has been christened "Colegate" :D
Grandmaster
09-02-2005, 16:24
Personally I think the FA and the Premier League have got to get a grip. Points shouldn't be deducted - it's not the players that have done anything wrong - but Chelsea should be banned from the transfer market for a year.
simonmac
06-03-2005, 15:11
Blues deny (Cole) inquiry snub (http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=260813&CPID=8&CLID=3&lid=&title=Blues+deny+inquiry+snub&channel=Premiership)
Chelsea have denied reports that they have not been fully co-operating with the Premier League regarding their alleged 'tapping up' of Ashley Cole.
Blues manager Jose Mourinho and chief executive Peter Kenyon apparently failed to attend the Cole inquiry, despite repeated requests by the league for their presence.
It had been feared the pair could be in breach of rule R2 that states all clubs must co-operate fully with official investigations, however the club denies the claim.
This could get messy!!
SpankySpanky
06-03-2005, 16:55
Personally I think the FA and the Premier League have got to get a grip. Points shouldn't be deducted - it's not the players that have done anything wrong - but Chelsea should be banned from the transfer market for a year.
Would never happen, for the simple reason that even an organisation as good at shooting itself in the foot as the FA would surely realise that would take multi millions out of the game in this country...
SS
simonmac
06-03-2005, 16:56
Would never happen, for the simple reason that even an organisation as good at shooting itself in the foot as the FA would surely realise that would take multi millions out of the game in this country...
SS
And also think of the cut of transfer/registration fees they'll miss
SpankySpanky
06-03-2005, 16:58
As an aside (though related point), if the FA are so against tapping up, why didn't they launch an enquiry into Yaap Stam's transfer to Man Utd after he made it completely clear in his book that he was tapped up illegally by someone who went on to be knighted by the Queen. Double standards??
SS
Well at least Chelsea have basically admitted it now. I wondered how long their blatant lies would continue, they really have made themselves look stupid. Hopefully Chelsea will get a transfer ban.
Things look very bad for Cole's agent too, especially given the special contracts Arsenal have in place to stop people like him.
Well at least Chelsea have basically admitted it now. I wondered how long their blatant lies would continue, they really have made themselves look stupid. Hopefully Chelsea will get a transfer ban.
yes, Chelsea are evil, Arsenal are holy and pure, just ask any team that's had a promising youngster stolen by them :oh-hum:
Wenger hasn't "stolen" anyone from anywhere - just becasue he pays low fees doesn't make him a thief.
I'm sure most clubs have broken one rule or another regarding transfers over the years, but Chelsea's guilt is far more obvious than in other cases I can think of. Actually setting up a meeting with the player, and his agent and having such high profile members of staff attending shows a complete lack of respect for the rules and for other football clubs. To then repeatedly pretend that the meeting did not take place is ridiculous.
Cole's agent is just as much of a disgrace, though most agents behave very badly anyway. I suppose he is just one of the worst of a bad bunch.
The rules on transfers and tapping up are far stricter than they've ever been, therefore given such clear evidence of guilt the FA need to make and example of Chelsea to discourage things like this from happening in future.
A transfer ban is surely the only way to punish them as fines are basically meaningless to Abromovich.
As Cole and his agent are supposedly the instigators of the meeting, how about taking away his agents' license, and a transfer ban on Cole himself, leaving him stuck at the club he's apparently keen to leave?
We dont know if he's keen to leave, but the money's definatly tempting him. It would be an absolute blow to the club if Cole left, he's the heart of the club and needs to stay.
simonmac
12-03-2005, 19:26
We dont know if he's keen to leave, but the money's definatly tempting him. It would be an absolute blow to the club if Cole left, he's the heart of the club and needs to stay.
Watching Clichy over the last few months I think we can live without him, espically if we get £25m. Don't get me wrong it will be a massive blow if he goes but it would not be the end of the world as we know it.
Yeah Chelsea are totally blameless - i expect they were forced to attend a meeting with a player already under contract. They clearly couldn't be expected to exercise free will and decide to play by the rules instead, or even perhaps ask Arsenal's permission?? :thinking:
Last time I checked you usually had more than one person at a meeting :cuckoo:
unrealnils
12-03-2005, 19:47
I wonder how injury prone Clichy is ?? We know cole can last most games of the season...........
AdamBrunt
12-03-2005, 19:55
As Cole and his agent are supposedly the instigators of the meeting, how about taking away his agents' license, and a transfer ban on Cole himself, leaving him stuck at the club he's apparently keen to leave?
And the fact that according to the rules Chelsea aren't allowed to speak to Cole without Arsenal's permission (regardless of what the agent did or did not do) is irrelevant right ?
Yes Chelsea are not blameless but i think this revelation takes alot of the pressure and guilt on them.
Cole and his agent should be appropriately dealt with.
i have also wondered how Man U have gotten away with it for so long re Man U and also cases like Philippe Mexes of Auxerre who was a Man U target and who regulalrly admitted to getting xmas cards and calls from AF..
Yeah Chelsea are totally blameless - i expect they were forced to attend a meeting with a player already under contract. They clearly couldn't be expected to exercise free will and decide to play by the rules instead, or even perhaps ask Arsenal's permission?? :thinking:
Last time I checked you usually had more than one person at a meeting :cuckoo:
Exactly, I was just pointing out that Arsenal fans and management seem to be pointing the finger entirely at Chelsea and Barnett, and conveniently ignoring the fact that Cole himself was at the meeting, unless he was doped/duped? :lol: If we're believing today's story (and I'm sure there will be different versions before this whole thing is through), Chelsea met him and decided they weren't interested, it was Cole/Barnett behind the whole thing, probably trying to up Cole's money either from Chelsea or to force Arsenal's hand. I'm not saying for a moment that Chelsea are blameless in this whole thing, just pointing out the hypocrisy in pinning it all on them. If you're gonna punish one, punish all three. Also, Chelsea FC has never denied the meeting took place, just Jose himself, which may have been a stupid move on his part I guess. I do seem to recall Chelsea denying tapping him up however, which ties in with today's story.
And the fact that according to the rules Chelsea aren't allowed to speak to Cole without Arsenal's permission (regardless of what the agent did or did not do) is irrelevant right ?
Maybe they saw how Liverpool got away with it and thought it'd be ok?
If we're believing today's story (and I'm sure there will be different versions before this whole thing is through), Chelsea met him and decided they weren't interested, it was Cole/Barnett behind the whole thing, probably trying to up Cole's money either from Chelsea or to force Arsenal's hand. I'm not saying for a moment that Chelsea are blameless in this whole thing, just pointing out the hypocrisy in pinning it all on them.
No one has ever "pinned it all on Chelsea" and everyone accepts that the agent has a lot to answer for. But you're completely missing the point.
Who cares if Chelsea don't want to sign him anymore? - that didn't stop Villa being found guilty for far, far less. It doesn't matter in the slightest.
As for who initated proceedings - these things can be grey areas at the best of times - the meeting took place and that's all that really matters. Clubs are not allowed to tap up players - that's the issue here. The rules are very clear:
Any club which by itself, by any of its officials, by any of its players, by its agent, by any other person on its behalf or by any other means whatsoever makes an approach either directly or indirectly to a contract player shall be in breach of these rules
As you can see it doesn't matter what agents were used or what they did - Chelsea made an indirect approach at the very least and are 100% guilty as charged.
The best part of this is that Chelsea are proven liars on a very serious matter. Lets just hope they don't merely get some pathetic fine and the punishment is increased due to the lack of truthfulness on Mourinho's part.
No one has ever "pinned it all on Chelsea" and everyone accepts that the agent has a lot to answer for. But you're completely missing the point.
..snip..
As you can see it doesn't matter what agents were used or what they did - Chelsea made an indirect approach at the very least and are 100% guilty as charged.
The best part of this is that Chelsea are proven liars on a very serious matter. Lets just hope they don't merely get some pathetic fine and the punishment is increased due to the lack of truthfulness on Mourinho's part.
ok you've said all that, and I've not said that Chelsea shouldn't have any punishment, but you're completely missing my point, which is that you still haven't addressed Cole's own culpability in this matter, for he is an adult and was present at that illegal meeting, if indeed it did take place, and in fact the latest evidence would suggest that he instigated it, rather than 'Chelsea made an indirect approach'. by the way, Chelsea FC haven't been caught in a lie, if anyone has it's Mourinho in his own right.
on a side note, what does it say about the mood within Arsenal if your star players are seeking meetings with other clubs?
rbullivant
12-03-2005, 21:36
and the FA have a long record of being soft on man utd to help them win the league don't they ?
Cantona 8 month ban
Rio Ferdinand long ban.
Rio Ferdinand should have been banned for two years and Cantona should have been banned for life, I'd say the FA were soft on them in both these cases and many more.
Back on topic - Surely Cole, the Agent and Chelsea are all equally to blame and all knew the rules (I have no real stake in football expect being a Forest fan and I knew them) so will Cole and the Agent be brought up on charges as well?
I know all clubs probably do it, good example are when a manager walks away from a club to join another the next week.
However most clubs would probably have more sense than to do it in a restaurant
Rik
AdamBrunt
12-03-2005, 23:17
Maybe they saw how Liverpool got away with it and thought it'd be ok?
Really ?? Care to name any players Liverpool have successfully tapped up ??
look at post #16 for starters
He's talking about the Ziege situation where we used a legitimate clause in his contract to buy him. IIRC it was never suggested he was "tapped up" in this manner
AdamBrunt
13-03-2005, 09:59
look at post #16 for starters
Interesting ....
(a) how does the fact that Liverpool asked Boro if they could talk Ziege mean they "tapped" him up ??
(b) I'm not sure of all the facts off hand, particularly what LFC were eventually charged with - IIRC it wasn't a lot in the end, but they made use of a clause in the player's contract which was was pretty much public knowledge in the football world as I understand. Besides, what is the point of having a "minimum release" clause in a contract if no one is allowed to know about it :?:
I do not see how anyone can compare the two cases at all ??
Crouching Tiger
23-03-2005, 18:57
Apparently, Cole, Maureenio and Chelsea have been charged.
this season for Chelsea has been like a season of Dream Team or something
Apparently, Cole, Maureenio and Chelsea have been charged.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/4355827.stm
Chelsea, their manager Jose Mourinho and Arsenal left-back Ashley Cole have all been charged by the Premier League over the 'tapping-up' row. An investigation has been completed by the League into a meeting held at a London hotel in January and attended by Mourinho, Cole and the player's agent.
Arsenal had not given permission for the 24-year-old to attend the meeting, which was exposed by a newspaper. That meant it was in breach of Premier League rule K3. That rule concerns approaches by clubs to players, but Cole has also been charged under K5, the rule covering approaches by players to clubs. Mourinho has been charged under rule Q, concerning the conduct of Premier League managers. The League has now given all parties 14 days to respond to the charges.
After that an independent three-man commission, headed by a Queen's Counsel barrister, will be appointed to look into the case and hand down punishments. This commission will be independent of the Premier League but its ruling will be binding under the competition's rules. The Premier League will also hand the evidence it has gathered during its own inquiry to the Football Association for any other possible further disciplinary action to be taken.
Lawyer Nick Fitzpatrick led the Premier League's hearing, during which Chelsea, Cole and his agent Jonathan Barnett all admitted they met at the London hotel in January. However, the accounts given by Chelsea and Cole over who set up the meeting differ. Barnett and another agent, Pini Zahavi, will not face any action for attending the meeting. "As licensed agents, Mr Jonathan Barnett and Mr Pini Zahavi do not fall within the jurisdiction of the FA Premier League for the purposes of this matter," said a statement issued on Wednesday. The statement also added: "The board wish to state that they have so far received co-operation from Chelsea FC, Mr Mourinho and Mr Cole and expect this to continue."
Chelsea issued a brief statement on Wednesday, which read: "We acknowledge receipt of the Premier League charges and will continue to co-operate fully with the commission process."
Disciplinary charges against Chelsea are now stacking up, with the first of two Uefa hearings into events surrounding the Champions League tie at Barcelona due on Thursday. At that hearing Chelsea will face charges of turning up for the second half of the first leg against Barca late, and Mourinho failing to show at all for the post-game news conference.
A fine is the most likely punishment there - but Chelsea could face more serious sanctions on 31 March when they attend a second Uefa hearing into the claims they made about Barca coach Frank Rijkaard meeting referee Anders Frisk at half-time in that first leg. Uefa has rejected that claim, accusing Chelsea of making "false declarations" in an attempt "to deliberately create a poisoned and negative ambience".
It is also thought that financial punishments are the most likely outcome of the Cole case, because of precedent. Liverpool were fined £20,000 for making an illegal approach for Christian Ziege while the German was at Middlesbrough and, more recently, Aston Villa were warned and ordered to pay costs for making an illegal approach for James Beattie.
SpankySpanky
23-03-2005, 21:30
He's talking about the Ziege situation where we used a legitimate clause in his contract to buy him. IIRC it was never suggested he was "tapped up" in this manner
So, what were Liverpool fined £20,000 for if it was all 'legit'???
:?:
SS
AdamBrunt
23-03-2005, 21:52
So, what were Liverpool fined £20,000 for if it was all 'legit'???
:?:
SS
They certainly weren't fined for tapping him up - that much is certain.
At the time the Boro chairman was also high up at the Premier League I think and used some "influence" on the outcome.
IIRC Boro even tried to sue Liverpool for £2.5M cos they claimed they had to turn down a £7.5M offer from Chelsea in order to accept Liverpool's £5M offer :?:
SpankySpanky
23-03-2005, 21:58
They certainly weren't fined for tapping him up - that much is certain.
At the time the Boro chairman was also high up at the Premier League I think and used some "influence" on the outcome.
:eek: So, are you stating that the fine was a put up job due to Middlesborough's chairman having influence in fining Liverpool for a misdemeanour they weren't guilty of? Did Liverpool not appeal?
SS
Edit: Surely 'making an illegal approach' is another explanation of tapping up??
AdamBrunt
23-03-2005, 22:10
:eek: So, are you stating that the fine was a put up job due to Middlesborough's chairman having influence in fining Liverpool for a misdemeanour they weren't guilty of? Did Liverpool not appeal?
SS
Edit: Surely 'making an illegal approach' is another explanation of tapping up??
Hmmm .... according to the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/1872311.stm) but they did not tap him up.
They found out how much his release fee was (not by speaking to the player directly) and offered Boro that much.
SpankySpanky
23-03-2005, 22:49
Hmmm .... according to the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/1872311.stm) but they did not tap him up.
They found out how much his release fee was (not by speaking to the player directly) and offered Boro that much.
Hmmm...so, I take it they talked to his agent/representative? I think you will find that 'tapping up' does not have to involve talking directly to the player himself, but 'any representative of the player', the relevant PL rule goes into huge detail about who can be classed as the player's rep in these cases.
SS
Edit: Not trying to single out Liverpool here, all I'm trying to say is this sort of thing goes off every day of the week, and therefore it would be hypocritical of the supporters of ANY club to condemn Chelsea. It's just that they got caught (and Liverpool and Aston Villa did as well, of course)
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