View Full Version : Has Wenger done a Keegan?
After reading a few articles over the weekend it seems as though Wenger has lost the plot a little.
Arsene Wenger has stepped up his feud with Sir Alex Ferguson by claiming the Manchester United manager is guilty of bringing football into disrepute.
The pair's long-running row was put back in the headlines on Saturday when Ferguson said his Arsenal counterpart was "a disgrace".
Wenger initially refused to bit back, saying only: "I will never answer any questions any more about this man."
But now he claims Ferguson should be punished by the Football Association.
The latest twist in the Ferguson-Wenger saga came on Saturday when the United boss, in an interview with The Independent newspaper, discussed the events after the game between the two sides in October.
United won 2-0 that day, at Old Trafford, but the game was followed by a now notorious food fight which saw Ferguson's clothes covered in soup and pizza.
The sides meet again at Highbury on 1 February.
"In the tunnel Wenger was criticising my players, calling them cheats, so I told him to leave them alone and behave himself," Ferguson said on Saturday.
"He ran at me with hands raised saying 'what do you want to do about it?'
"To not apologise for the behaviour of the players to another manager is unthinkable. It's a disgrace, but I don't expect Wenger to ever apologise, he's that type of person."
Those allegations were put to Wenger after Saturday's game at Bolton, which Arsenal lost to slip 10 points behind Chelsea in the title race.
At first he said only: "I've always been consistent with that story and told you nothing happened.
"If he has to talk, he talks. If he wants to make a newspaper article, he makes a newspaper article.
"He doesn't interest me and doesn't matter to me at all. I will never answer to any provocation from him any more.
"He does what he likes in England anyway. He can go abroad one day and see how it is."
But later on Saturday, according to The Independent, Wenger spoke to a smaller group of reporters and expanded on his reaction.
"I have no diplomatic relations with him," the Arsenal boss is quoted as saying.
"What I don't understand is that he does what he wants and you (the press) are all at his feet.
"The situation (concerning the food fight) has been judged and there is a game going on in a month.
"The managers have a responsibility to protect the game before the game. But in England you are only punished for what you say after the game.
"Now the whole story starts again. I don't go into that game. We play football. I am a football manager and I love football above all ... no matter what people say."
Reminded that Ferguson called him "a disgrace", Wenger added: "I don't respond to anything. In England you have a good phrase. It is 'bringing the game into disrepute'.
"But that is not only after a game, it is as well before a game."
Ferguson had also claimed that United chief executive David Gill and Arsenal vice-chairman David Dein had agreed at boardroom level not to discuss the incident in public.
But Ferguson added: "In the ensuing weeks all you got was a diatribe from Arsenal about being kicked off the pitch and all that nonsense. Gill phoned Dein three times to complain but nothing was done.
"The return is on 1 February and they will come out with another diatribe.
"David Gill and I feel we should set the record straight because Arsenal have not written to us to apologise and we would not let that happen here."
Meanwhile, the League Managers Association have offered to act as peacemakers in the hope of resolving the on-going row.
LMA chief executive John Barnwell said: "You do get, from time to time, in a very emotional game, strong personalities and a difference of opinion, and this has happened with Alex and with Arsene over too long a period.
"It's past history, it should have been dealt with, but it's now reared its head again.
"Certainly, if we thought there was something which would pour some water and less fuel on the fire then we would do that."
During that stormy game in October, United striker Ruud van Nistelrooy caught Arsenal's Ashley Cole with one particularly strong tackle.
Wenger later accused Van Nistelrooy of "cheating" and was fined £15,000 and "severely reprimanded" by the Football Association.
Ferguson admitted on Saturday that Van Nistelrooy's tackle, which earned the Dutchman a ban, "could have given (Cole) a serious injury", but he believes Arsenal were the main aggressors.
"Wenger is always complaining the match was not played in the right spirit," he added.
"They are the worst losers of all time, they don't know how to lose. Maybe it is just Manchester United, they don't lose many games to other teams.
"We tend to forget the worst disciplinary record of all time was Arsenal's up until last season. In fairness it has improved and now they are seen as paragons of virtue.
"But to Wenger it never happens, it is all some dream or nightmare."
TBH I'm thoroughlt sick of this childish beahavious and comments from both Wenger & Ferguson. They sound like a couple of 6 year olds arguing in the playground.
TBH I'm thoroughlt sick of this childish beahavious and comments from both Wenger & Ferguson. They sound like a couple of 6 year olds arguing in the playground.
No they dont.
No they dont.
:lol:
My dad's bigger your dad :razz:
Bill Carr
17-01-2005, 10:49
TBH I'm thoroughlt sick of this childish beahavious and comments from both Wenger & Ferguson. They sound like a couple of 6 year olds arguing in the playground.
Agreed, it's all a bit pathetic really. And inevitably it will lead to more aggro when they next play each other. Sad really.
Agreed, it's all a bit pathetic really. And inevitably it will lead to more aggro when they next play each other. Sad really.
i do think that was Alex F's plan but i am also inclined to agree with the OP that maybe Wenger has done a Keegan.
He was in a much more authoritative position on saturday with his answer but now....
I think Ferguson is the biggest baby of all.
He really doesn't like it that Arsenal and Chelsea have got squads to better Man Utd.
It's Ferguson always crying like a little child and making pathetic remarks about other teams. Whenever he seems to say something, it goes unpunished. While if Wenger or Mourinho were to make a comment, they would be fined.
I think the quicker that old scottish fart retires the better it would be for everyone in football. :razz:
unrealnils
17-01-2005, 12:22
There both foolish but neither is less guilty then the other....... takes two
©™~UKJEZZA~™©
17-01-2005, 12:42
I think Ferguson is the biggest baby of all.
He really doesn't like it that Arsenal and Chelsea have got squads to better Man Utd.
I think the quicker that old scottish fart retires the better it would be for everyone in football. :razz:
Wow, did you write that articulate reply all by yourself? You should be very proud. :|
Wenger has fallen for the bait, exactly what SAF would have wanted.
I find it strange that after saying he'll never talk about 'that man' again, he brings it all up again 12 hours later. He's generally a man of his word, he must have had a chat with Dein and between them decided they should come back with something a bit stronger than "he means nothing to me".
Mourhino must be laughing his head off.
Usual SAF 'mind games' stirring something up that has been dead and buried for yonks. Silly of Wenger to rise to the bait though. Tis all very childish (and pretty boring).
Arsenal don't have a better squad than United - as proven recently by their lack of quality replacements. They're not too far apart IMO, but United shade it for me.
Anyways, Fergie has always played these mind games and other managers (ie: Wenger!) shouldn't fall for them. I'm just waiting for the Mourinho/Fergie spats to start (or continue if you take the recent stories as the start!).
I quite enjoy watching them have a pop at each other (ie: SAF + AW), but Fergie always wins, which makes it even more enjoyable.
Arsenal don't have a better squad than United - as proven recently by their lack of quality replacements. They're not too far apart IMO, but United shade it for me.
Anyways, Fergie has always played these mind games and other managers (ie: Wenger!) shouldn't fall for them. I'm just waiting for the Mourinho/Fergie spats to start (or continue if you take the recent stories as the start!).
I quite enjoy watching them have a pop at each other (ie: SAF + AW), but Fergie always wins, which makes it even more enjoyable.
Yes but neither are any match for Mourinho.
He can just wind both up silly. :lol: :notworthy
joconnor
17-01-2005, 14:49
Yes but neither are any match for Mourinho.
He can just wind both up silly. :lol: :notworthy
Except last wed when it was the first sign of Jose losing his cool
Bill Carr
17-01-2005, 14:55
Except last wed when it was the first sign of Jose losing his cool
His comments about the referee? I thought he did that to put a bit of pressure on ref's of future games. And didn't it work with the penalty they got against Spurs? :shrug:
joconnor
17-01-2005, 16:08
Yeah but he looked rattled. Jose is a very cool character, the complete opposite of Keegan.
This was our first glimpse his demeanour breaking down.
I'm sure we'll see it some more when the pressure is on around March/April
both should know better by now, but its part of the game these days.
I dont think the media help at all, they try and twist it even more.
AdamBrunt
17-01-2005, 16:17
It's funny how these sorts of things, when spoken by SAF, are just deemed to be mind games. When spoken by Wenger and Mourinho they end up as disrepute charges ?? Even then, I fail to see how Wenger can be fined £15k for calling RVN a cheat whilst Mourinho has no action taken for calling Man U/the ref a cheat ??
Then again, in relation to the whole Keegan thing, to this day I have never understood how SAF claiming on live TV that Notts Forest (I think it was) would deliberately lose a game did not earn him a disrepute charge ??
SpankySpanky
17-01-2005, 16:31
Then again, in relation to the whole Keegan thing, to this day I have never understood how SAF claiming on live TV that Notts Forest (I think it was) would deliberately lose a game did not earn him a disrepute charge ??
Let's also not forget about his illegal 'tapping up' of Jaap Stam, which if it had been perpetrated by any other manager would have deffo led to a charge of bringing the game into disrepute! What more evidence did the powers that be need to go for it...it was in Stam's book while he was STILL a Man Utd player, for chrissakes!
Personally, I think both Wenger and Ferguson are pathetic, and I think their childish 'spat' looks even more embarassing now that they aren't even doing it to try and win the Premier League. A shift in power to Stamford Bridge has left them both in a sorry mess....
SS
I quite enjoy watching them have a pop at each other (ie: SAF + AW), but Fergie always wins, which makes it even more enjoyable.
Always wins? :lol: :lol:
not sure Fergie has ever "won" a mind game against Wenger. For example he moaned for day after day after day following the last game and spent countless hours making pathetic dossiers. This in spite of the fact that all the worst offences
(and most significant) were commmited by his own side. Then finally when he handed in all his work the FA told him where to stick it.
Yes he really is a genius. :cuckoo:
Always wins? :lol: :lol:
not sure Fergie has ever "won" a mind game against Wenger. For example he moaned for day after day after day following the last game and spent countless hours making pathetic dossiers. This in spite of the fact that all the worst offences were commmited by his own side. Then finally when he handed in all his work the FA told him where to stick it.
Yes he really is a genius. :cuckoo:
Arsenal fan in "Arsenal players are never in the wrong shocker" ;)
Putting to one side Wenger-like myopia for a second, i would be very interested to hear Dein's comments on whether this 'agreement not to talk about it' was true.
Agree that the press milk it for all its worth though.
Always wins? :lol: :lol:
not sure Fergie has ever "won" a mind game against Wenger. For example he moaned for day after day after day following the last game and spent countless hours making pathetic dossiers. This in spite of the fact that all the worst offences
(and most significant) were commmited by his own side. Then finally when he handed in all his work the FA told him where to stick it.
Yes he really is a genius. :cuckoo:
The FA stated before recieving any "dossier" that they wouldn't take it into consideration, they were still given it anyways.
Think the mind-games and managers losing the plot can be funny, Keegan's "I love it" being the best of all, does get boring when it's the same stuff over and over again.
Zenza's massive hatred of anything to do with United or Fergie cheers me up though :D
I think Ferguson is the biggest baby of all.
It's Ferguson always crying like a little child and making pathetic remarks about other teams. Whenever he seems to say something, it goes unpunished. While if Wenger or Mourinho were to make a comment, they would be fined.
I think the quicker that old scottish fart retires the better it would be for everyone in football. :razz:
:notworthy Agreed 100% The sooner the whinging git retires the better. Him and his crappy team get away with murder - if anyone else would have said the things Ferguscum has said in the last they'd have been up on numerous disrepute charges by now.
:notworthy Agreed 100% The sooner the whinging git retires the better. Him and his crappy team get away with murder - if anyone else would have said the things Ferguscum has said in the last they'd have been up on numerous disrepute charges by now.
Very true. The way they get away with things is terrible, but what makes it worse is all the whining as well. E.g. calling what went on at OT last season as the worst thing he has ever seen in football is so ridiculous considering the consistently disgraceful antics of his teams over the years. He totally compunds things almost every time he opens his mouth.
And as for calling Arsenal bad losers? Well they're not the best - but he tends to moan even if he wins - so he's a bad winner, drawer and loser. :lol:
slideymoo
17-01-2005, 17:44
Fergie just always makes himself look stupid. I laugh at the media who calls it a war or mindgames, its utter crap.
Adam Thirnis
17-01-2005, 18:23
:notworthy Agreed 100% The sooner the whinging git retires the better. Him and his crappy team get away with murder - if anyone else would have said the things Ferguscum has said in the last they'd have been up on numerous disrepute charges by now.
Of course the likes of you want him to retire. It's when you want him to stay that I'll be worried. :D
MaxNutter
17-01-2005, 18:50
Then again, in relation to the whole Keegan thing, to this day I have never understood how SAF claiming on live TV that Notts Forest (I think it was) would deliberately lose a game did not earn him a disrepute charge ??
iirc, it was Leeds ... and it worked, not by winding Keggy up, but by winding the Leeds players up ... SAF had a fair point, some teams, especially "rivals" such as Leeds raise their game when playing United (and why not?) ... he didn't go so far as to call them "cheats" as some people seem to like doing ...
Of course the likes of you want him to retire. It's when you want him to stay that I'll be worried. :D
Actually he can be incredibly entertaining. Certainly was very funny in the couple of weeks after the Arsenal game, although hearing tthe same old stuff week after week can be boring. E.g. after he's made himself look really dumb one week, the week after can seem rather tame.
I reckon a lot of people here who want him to retire would actually be pretty sad to see him go in some ways. There are few better sights in football than Fergies red face after a Man U defeat. :clap:
Also to be fair, he does have the decency to keep his nonsensical views off the bbc - thus giving us all a well deserved break from his ramblings.
Yes but neither are any match for Mourinho.
He can just wind both up silly. :lol: :notworthy
Took fergie a couple of years to get to wenger....so there still time yet :D
When all's said and done, who of us could live without a little Ferguson - Wenger spat? Its all good fun and keeps the build up to big games quite entertaining. I think Fergie keeps stuff like this going for a laugh. After all its hardly serious is it?
Its when you take it seriously you've got a problem.........
cantona7
17-01-2005, 23:17
Let's just get one thing (well okay more than one) straight. United never have and never will get a fair or easy ride from the FA (Ferdinand for one). Where as Arsenal have and will get away with murder, due in part to the fact that Dein is their chairman. And as for everyone's comments about Mourhino , yes Chelsea are flying at the moment and deserve to be top of the league, but lets see how good he is at mind games when they lose a couple of games themselves, because it will happen. It’s only 3 months ago that Arsenal were unbeatable and the so called best team of all time, if their that great how come they've never retained a title, that's the sign of a great team.
Adam Thirnis
17-01-2005, 23:22
Let's just get one thing (well okay more than one) straight. United never have and never will get a fair or easy ride from the FA (Ferdinand for one). Where as Arsenal have and will get away with murder, due in part to the fact that Dein is their chairman. And as for everyone's comments about Mourhino , yes Chelsea are flying at the moment and deserve to be top of the league, but lets see how good he is at mind games when they lose a couple of games themselves, because it will happen. It’s only 3 months ago that Arsenal were unbeatable and the so called best team of all time, if their that great how come they've never retained a title, that's the sign of a great team.
Corrrectamundo
:thumbs:
Citysmith
17-01-2005, 23:33
Let's just get one thing (well okay more than one) straight. United never have and never will get a fair or easy ride from the FA (Ferdinand for one). :lol: :lol: :lol:
Oh you were been serious :|
Let's just get one thing (well okay more than one) straight. United never have and never will get a fair or easy ride from the FA
So says someone calling themselves 'cantona7'. Do I detect a slight pro-Scum bias? lol:
AdamBrunt
18-01-2005, 00:25
iirc, it was Leeds ... and it worked, not by winding Keggy up, but by winding the Leeds players up ... SAF had a fair point, some teams, especially "rivals" such as Leeds raise their game when playing United (and why not?) ... he didn't go so far as to call them "cheats" as some people seem to like doing ...
And what exactly is the difference between saying a team will lose deliberately and calling them a cheat ??
Or maybe you don't think Grobbelaar cheated when he - allegedly - deliberately let goals in ??
fatherofnight
18-01-2005, 00:42
if their that great how come they've never retained a title, that's the sign of a great team.
i am sick of this tired and totally wrong statement being used by utd fans just because arsenal havent done it, yet. lets say that a team over the course of 10 yrs wins the league every other yr. you are trying to tell me that a team that wins the league 5 times in 10 seasons isnt a great team, please wake up and think of something new to say, that statement is a pile of steaming horse manure.
man utd have won the treble and as much as it pains me, i think that qualifys that team as a great team.
arsenal went the season undefeated a feat that no other english club of the modern era has ever done, almost the perfect league campaign and imo that qualifys that team as a great team. 2 great teams why cant you just accept it. btw i am a fan of neither club.
i am sick of this tired and totally wrong statement being used by utd fans just because arsenal havent done it, yet. lets say that a team over the course of 10 yrs wins the league every other yr. you are trying to tell me that a team that wins the league 5 times in 10 seasons isnt a great team, please wake up and think of something new to say, that statement is a pile of steaming horse manure.
man utd have won the treble and as much as it pains me, i think that qualifys that team as a great team.
arsenal went the season undefeated a feat that no other english club of the modern era has ever done, almost the perfect league campaign and imo that qualifys that team as a great team. 2 great teams why cant you just accept it. btw i am a fan of neither club.
Stop moaning - why can't you just see the facts?
All the great managers have won the Carling Cup. Wenger has failed miserably in the competition and hasn't even made the final. Given his recor in the competition you'd think he wasn't even trying!!!!!!1111one two threeee thirty-nine.
until Arsenal win this competition at least once there is no way they can possibly ever be called a great side. Also they didn't win the Charity Shield in 2003 year and that means they must be the worst team ever ever amen.
.. he didn't go so far as to call them "cheats" as some people seem to like doing ...
IIRC, he suggested that they (the players) were "cheating their manager" by not giving their best efforts against other teams. Given the way the leeds (as many other sides do) players always raised their games against ManU (and the other "big" teams), it's not too far off the mark to suggest that the players are therefore not trying their very best against "lessor" teams and are therefore "cheating their manager".
Interestingly, we've seen a couple of occasions this season when united have played like crap against these "lessor" teams - are they "cheating" fergie now? ;)
Grandmaster
18-01-2005, 06:30
I would not go so far as saying that Ferguson has brought the game into disrepute. However, his various media briefings are pathetic, spiteful little diatribes that would probably be more accurately described as unsportsmanlike behaviour.
The FA should put a stop to it, legislate against it if needs be, and just let the football do the talking.
As for Wenger, for a supposedly intelligent man, he should know better and keep his mouth shut.
So says someone calling themselves 'cantona7'. Do I detect a slight pro-Scum bias? lol:
Besides your obnoxious name calling, why are you even bothered whats going on in the premiership - it'll be a long time before your lot are back playing in it. :p
The 3 little pigs
18-01-2005, 08:48
Looks like Wengers decision not to talk about Fergie lasted a whopping 24hrs.
He has been ranting on French telly now:-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/4183299.stm
MaxNutter
18-01-2005, 11:28
And what exactly is the difference between saying a team will lose deliberately and calling them a cheat ??
Or maybe you don't think Grobbelaar cheated when he - allegedly - deliberately let goals in ??
he didn't, he said "Leeds aren't doing their manager proud if they play out of their skins against United, but revert to normal levels against Newscastle" ... that's not saying they'll lose deliberately, or calling them cheats!
I think hes starting to crack.
I have to say I was at the Charlton v Arsenal game where they won 1-3.
Arsenal had 4 shots on target I scored from 3 of them.
Now you could say that was the 75% goal rate was a sign of a good side, or you could question the fact that the only had 4 shoots. This will depend on what team you support I suppose.
The thing that was VERY clear that day (& on a lot of there performances from October) is that they were not playing as a team, & were constantly shouting at each other when passes went wrong (miss-timed pass, were tackled etc.).
In my view something is desperately wrong down North London way at the moment that is interfering with they way they play. For there sake they need to sort it out soon & if its one player causing unrest get rid of them no matter how bigger name they are.
it'll be a long time before your lot are back playing in it. :p
Charming. You're probably right though :cry:
Adam Thirnis
18-01-2005, 20:48
Looks like Wengers decision not to talk about Fergie lasted a whopping 24hrs.
He has been ranting on French telly now:-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/4183299.stm
To be fair to Wenger he only said that he would not answer any more questions about "that man". He can volunteer as much about him as he likes - as long as he doesn't respond to questions. So Arsene can't really be faulted here. :)
Bill Carr
19-01-2005, 09:41
I have to say I was at the Charlton v Arsenal game where they won 1-3.
Arsenal had 4 shots on target I scored from 3 of them.
Who are you? Terry Henry?
vBulletin® v3.8.5, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.